BajaNomad

Grid Power Battery Backup Advances

JDCanuck - 3-13-2022 at 09:54 AM


https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/california-electric-fo...

General Motors and Ford this week announced pilot programs with California's Pacific Gas & Electric Company that will study the use of electric vehicles as backup power sources during blackouts and for energy storage that can help stabilize the grid.

JDCanuck - 3-13-2022 at 10:06 AM

Or these advances in Florida by Duke Energy Florida:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/duke-energy-duk-expands-batte...

"The U.S. Energy Information Administration expects an installation of an additional 10,000 MW of large-scale battery storage power capacity in the United States between 2021 and 2023. This highlights bright prospects for utility companies like Duke Energy to prosper on the abounding growth opportunity through more such battery storage projects like the latest one."

To put that in perspective, a very large thermal power plant consisting of 6 - 350mw coal or natural gas fired units would provide 2,100 MW of power at full output. This amount of battery storage could contribute to replacement of 5 such thermal plants with an equivalent amount of variable supply renewable power.


[Edited on 3-13-2022 by JDCanuck]

JDCanuck - 3-13-2022 at 11:35 AM

Closer to home, every time I drove by these newly installed windmills north of La Paz, I wondered why none of them were turning. Are they waiting for this storage system before they go online? Anyone have insight on why they seem to be idled?

https://mexicobusiness.news/energy/news/wartsila-storage-sys...

proneman - 3-13-2022 at 04:37 PM

Went by 10 days ago and they were working.

JDCanuck - 3-13-2022 at 10:34 PM

Thanks Proneman...great news!

Bajabus - 3-14-2022 at 12:10 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck  


To put that in perspective, a very large thermal power plant consisting of 6 - 350mw coal or natural gas fired units would provide 2,100 MW of power at full output. This amount of battery storage could contribute to replacement of 5 such thermal plants with an equivalent amount of variable supply renewable power.


[Edited on 3-13-2022 by JDCanuck]


JD, it's not as simple as that. You need at least two numbers to understand the battery. Capacity and Time. You can have a 2MW 1 hour battery. This means it is designed to supply 2 MW for 1 hour or you can have a 2MW, 4-hour battery. Battery storage has come a long way for sure. In the large-scale utility market, you also have to think about what it is being used for. You can have small standalone 2 MW 1 hour systems for frequency regulation or voltage droop or larger multi-hundred MW, 4 to 10 hour systems mean to supply a serious continuous input for peak shaving. Gas or Coal base load and peak shaving plants can supply the rated load as long as you have fuel and or don't need to shut down for maintenance.

JDCanuck - 3-14-2022 at 12:50 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bajabus  
Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck  


To put that in perspective, a very large thermal power plant consisting of 6 - 350mw coal or natural gas fired units would provide 2,100 MW of power at full output. This amount of battery storage could contribute to replacement of 5 such thermal plants with an equivalent amount of variable supply renewable power.


[Edited on 3-13-2022 by JDCanuck]


JD, it's not as simple as that. You need at least two numbers to understand the battery. Capacity and Time. You can have a 2MW 1 hour battery. This means it is designed to supply 2 MW for 1 hour or you can have a 2MW, 4-hour battery. Battery storage has come a long way for sure. In the large-scale utility market, you also have to think about what it is being used for. You can have small standalone 2 MW 1 hour systems for frequency regulation or voltage droop or larger multi-hundred MW, 4 to 10 hour systems mean to supply a serious continuous input for peak shaving. Gas or Coal base load and peak shaving plants can supply the rated load as long as you have fuel and or don't need to shut down for maintenance.


Good point Bajabus, so we need to divide that battery size by the time it would be required to supply the grid in renewable power sags. La Paz has only just started in this direction, and I've been told most of the renewable power is redirected to Cabo and not for La Paz' use. This may just be competitive sour grapes. Any inside info for us?

Bajabus - 3-14-2022 at 01:27 PM

The 13 MW 4 hour battery site in CD is still stalled last I heard. We finished it about a year ago but some political issues are preventing it from going online. All these projects, including the wind turbines, are connected to the same BCS grid so it's a matter of allocation at the discretion of the grid operator.

I now work for FlexGen out of NC and specialize in large-scale BESS ( Battery Energy Storage Systems ). It's extremely interesting to see what we are doing. For instance, there is a Coke a Cola plant up in the mountains in PR that is completely run on 6 massive natural gas generators running in parallel, no grid tie-in. We installed a large bank of supercapacitors that work great for load and frequency stabilization but they don't last long. I just finished testing the 1.8 MW 1 hour BESS for that plant and will be shipping it down there in April. Also did a very cool 2 MW 4 hour battery bank for the town of Minneapolis KS. The town has a super cool private power plant with the ability to isolate itself from the national grid and run on 4 very impressive 1930s dual fuel generators. The BESS automatically provides frequency and voltage stabilization. Mechanical generators, even modern ones tend to have a sluggish response time that is vastly improved by a BESS. Everyone likes to look at the big 800 MW systems going in but the vast majority of battery systems are being used as standalone systems co-located near small rural substations. We are starting 10 such sites in NC next month.
Unfortunately, Mexico is way behind on the renewable energy front. A lot of investors were scared off by AMALOs current stance. In CD we had a signed 25-year contract to supply power at a set price. At the last min, the interconnection permit was not granted and now the project and investors are sitting around with their thumbs up their asses while lawyers hash it out.

[Edited on 14-3-2022 by Bajabus]

JDCanuck - 3-14-2022 at 01:36 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bajabus  

Unfortunately, Mexico is way behind on the renewable energy front. A lot of investors were scared off by AMALOs current stance. In CD we had a signed 25-year contract to supply power at a set price. At the last min, the interconnection permit was not granted and now the project and investors are sitting around with their thumbs up their asses while lawyers hash it out.

[Edited on 14-3-2022 by Bajabus]


Thanks Bajabus, thats pretty much what I had heard rumoured earlier. Sad, because I think Baja has some excellent advantages, especially in solar. This is the primary reason we chose to build down there. Still expensive to go 100% solar, but manageable if you are off grid. We are presently stuck on cost of additional batteries for storage and forced to use some propane for hi loads at infrequent periods.
I'm intrigued especially with the new F-150 lightning concept as a plug-in to my home system and with the additional benefit of transportation in and out of La Paz. You have any thoughts on this?

[Edited on 3-14-2022 by JDCanuck]

Bajabus - 3-14-2022 at 04:31 PM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho  
Quote: Originally posted by Bajabus  
The 13 MW 4 hour battery site in CD is still stalled last I heard.


What's "CD"? :?:


Ciudad Constitución

JDCanuck - 3-14-2022 at 05:02 PM

Bajabus: When you talk Mechanical Generators, are you talking large IC generators, boiler/steam turbine, or combined cycle gas turbines?
I have been out of the field for decades and of course am interested in whats state of the art today in thermal generators.
Up here we have shut down almost all coal fired thermal turbine generating plants and have switched to hydro, windmill or natural gas thermal as a replacement in the interim. Much more efficient combined cycle (65%) natural gas with carbon capture/storage are the eventual plan for thermal but it's been a frustratingly slow process.

JDCanuck - 3-14-2022 at 09:02 PM

Hi Lencho: To answer that question, I remember coming across this recently:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-11-17/mexico-s-...