BajaNomad

Map from 1900: San Borja to Cabo San Lucas

David K - 4-29-2022 at 08:41 AM

Thanks to 'geoffff' for stitching three maps together to produce this:

David K - 4-29-2022 at 08:49 AM

On the www.VivaBaja.com/maps page, this map can be clicked to zoom way in for reading details!

4x4abc - 4-29-2022 at 07:01 PM

there is this ominous Cerro Colorado on all old maps.
also on this one
But not on any of the new maps.
Any experts here to pinpoint Cerro Colorado?

it seems about 10 miles east of MEX1
and a bit north of the powerline to San Juan de la Costa

I can pinpoint Mesa de la Vieja
and Arroyo Guadalupe
I have some candidates but nothing really high to deserve a spot on the map

cerro colorado.jpg - 191kB

4x4abc - 4-30-2022 at 02:04 AM

figured it out myself
the old problem - map makers who have no knowledge of the area they are mapping
starting in La Paz Mr Eisen misplaced Zacatal
so the following waypoints are off
Rancho Los Reyes is in the ocean
he did not know what to do with it, so he put it in the water
Mesa de la Vieja is actually Los Reyes
CERRO COLORADO is Mesa de la Vieja
the real Cerro Colorado is west of Camino Real
from Arroyo Guadalupe all locations match
could not find La Junta - possibly Arr Las Pocitas

Gustav Eisen map mistakes copy.jpg - 209kB

geoffff - 4-30-2022 at 01:55 PM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc  
figured it out myself
the old problem - map makers who have no knowledge of the area they are mapping


beautifully crafted map, but so wrong

geoffff - 4-30-2022 at 02:00 PM

The author, Gustav Eisen
https://alchetron.com/Gustav-Eisen

bajaric - 5-1-2022 at 08:58 AM

4 worms, 2 red algae, two plants and a mosquito named after him. Impressive!

David K - 5-1-2022 at 09:15 AM

Cerro Colorado, west of La Paz, on a 1919 map:
https://octopup.org/img/media/maps/baja/1919--Baja-Californi...

4x4abc - 5-1-2022 at 10:14 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Cerro Colorado, west of La Paz, on a 1919 map:
https://octopup.org/img/media/maps/baja/1919--Baja-Californi...



bad map
wrong location for Cerro Colorado
it is north of Arroyo San Hilario
24.416464°, -111.053427°
between El Cien and Las Pocitas

these US maps are pretty accurate along the coast
but inland they are usually oof

however, the 1923 US map is one of my favorites for the old trail network
everything, including Camino Real are right on

surfhat - 5-1-2022 at 11:48 AM

After all these years since I first drive down the 1 to Cabo and found a dirt road south of Todos Santos in the middle of the night and coming upon a night club north of Cabo San Lucas at 3am partying on relentlessly, I have to say it was quite a culture shock.

Looking back, my girlfriend and I should have stopped and joined the party. Our intentions were to catch the morning ferry from Cabo to Puerto Vallarta.sp? duh.

It was not much longer before that ferry stopped running, and for good reasons. The open ocean was not conducive to such an open ocean voyage that i had the privilege to experience.

The odor of puke on that overnight trip had me spending the night on the deck for the fresh air.

Certain memories pop up when something reminds me of past personal experiences. This is just another.

Please carry on if I have gone off topic. I can easily be triggered by all I have seen in the last fifty years of loving everything about Mexico and its salt of the earth people. Peace out.

4x4abc - 5-1-2022 at 02:03 PM

Quote: Originally posted by surfhat  
After all these years since I first drive down the 1 to Cabo and found a dirt road south of Todos Santos in the middle of the night and coming upon a night club north of Cabo San Lucas at 3am partying on relentlessly, I have to say it was quite a culture shock.

Looking back, my girlfriend and I should have stopped and joined the party. Our intentions were to catch the morning ferry from Cabo to Puerto Vallarta.sp? duh.

It was not much longer before that ferry stopped running, and for good reasons. The open ocean was not conducive to such an open ocean voyage that i had the privilege to experience.

The odor of puke on that overnight trip had me spending the night on the deck for the fresh air.

Certain memories pop up when something reminds me of past personal experiences. This is just another.

Please carry on if I have gone off topic. I can easily be triggered by all I have seen in the last fifty years of loving everything about Mexico and its salt of the earth people. Peace out.



carry on!
the best conversations start at X, go to Z and end up at B
and B usually being much more interesting than X

watizname - 5-2-2022 at 07:08 AM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc  
Quote: Originally posted by surfhat  
After all these years since I first drive down the 1 to Cabo and found a dirt road south of Todos Santos in the middle of the night and coming upon a night club north of Cabo San Lucas at 3am partying on relentlessly, I have to say it was quite a culture shock.

Looking back, my girlfriend and I should have stopped and joined the party. Our intentions were to catch the morning ferry from Cabo to Puerto Vallarta.sp? duh.

It was not much longer before that ferry stopped running, and for good reasons. The open ocean was not conducive to such an open ocean voyage that i had the privilege to experience.

The odor of puke on that overnight trip had me spending the night on the deck for the fresh air.

Certain memories pop up when something reminds me of past personal experiences. This is just another.

Please carry on if I have gone off topic. I can easily be triggered by all I have seen in the last fifty years of loving everything about Mexico and its salt of the earth people. Peace out.



carry on!
the best conversations start at X, go to Z and end up at B
and B usually being much more interesting than X


That's the best comment I have heard in a looooong time Harold. :coolup:

4x4abc - 5-2-2022 at 08:52 AM

Quote: Originally posted by watizname  

That's the best comment I have heard in a looooong time Harold. :coolup:


crescent moon, venus with star rays, mars 1k.jpg - 89kB

Gracias!

David K - 5-2-2022 at 09:14 AM

Drifting off topic, just a little? :lol:

4x4abc - 5-2-2022 at 11:30 AM

sorry David - we'll keep it more simple for you.

David K - 5-2-2022 at 12:11 PM

Simple? As in old maps vs. new astronomy?
I get how old minds can wander off... I am not that much younger than you, am I?
LOL

4x4abc - 5-2-2022 at 01:16 PM

that image inserted itself - I did not intend it to be there

bajaric - 5-4-2022 at 12:27 PM

The 1900 map has more than a few inaccuracies, but that could be expected. By then the coastline had been charted but parts of the interior were still "terra incognito".

For example, the map shows a wagon trail from the coastline to what today is called Punta Prieta (town). This trail actually existed, to supply mines in the interior by sea from the landing at what was then called Santa Rosalia.

Then the map shows a trail north, passing the area known today for the "Lions" (Leon Grande, Arroyo Leoncito, etc.) but the route was probably only a guess upon the part of Eisen, based on something he had heard. This is the fabled "western trail" that has been discussed before, a north/south trail that was well to the west of the old mission trail north from San Borja in the period around 1900. It was probably never more than a burro path and was abandoned when a better road north from Punta Prieta went in around 1920 -1930.

David K - 5-4-2022 at 02:38 PM

I think we know these old maps are not as accurate as those made over 100 years later (although I have seen some pretty bad new maps).

Look again at the legend... the only 'wagon road' is south from La Paz. Other dashed lines are simply called 'trails'.

I do not see Punta Prieta or anything where Punta Prieta is, on the map. The only places beyond Mission San Francisco Borja are Yubay (north) and San Andrés (west). Those two places exist to this day.

Indeed the trail north from San Borja was not much more than a burro path as the Jesuits were expelled the year (1767) after they established the next mission beyond San Borja (first at Calamajué in 1766). They never had the time to build a proper road as they had from Loreto to San Borja. The Franciscans and Dominicans, who replaced the Jesuits in California, had no interest in road building like the Jesuits made... beyond what was needed for pack trains of burros, and for people on mules & horses.

I hope we will find more old maps to share and discuss. The region between San Borja and El Rosario is an interesting one (as are so many other parts of Baja!).

bajaric - 5-5-2022 at 02:09 PM

You are right DK! After taking a closer look I see that Eisen's map does not show a trail from Santa Rosalillita (then called Santa Rosalia) to the area of Punta Prieta (the town). It shows a more coastal route, passing Rancho San Andreas near the Pacific Ocean and proceeding north along the coast. This may have been a trail that went to Rancho Cordonices?

Thus another wrinkle is added to the mystery north / south route that ran to the west of El Camino Real. around 1900-1920. It should be noted that at the time steamships provided regular passenger service to landings all along both coastlines, providing a much easier way to get to central Baja than by burro trail; a ticket to Bahia Asuncion was $20US, meals included, which would have been preferrable to riding a burro for 250 miles in the desert!

The few that rode those trails back in the day were tough!


[Edited on 5-5-2022 by bajaric]

David K - 5-5-2022 at 03:52 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bajaric  
You are right DK! After taking a closer look I see that Eisen's map does not show a trail from Santa Rosalillita (then called Santa Rosalia) to the area of Punta Prieta (the town). It shows a more coastal route, passing Rancho San Andreas near the Pacific Ocean and proceeding north along the coast. This may have been a trail that went to Rancho Cordonices?

Thus another wrinkle is added to the mystery north / south route that ran to the west of El Camino Real. around 1900-1920. It should be noted that at the time steamships provided regular passenger service to landings all along both coastlines, providing a much easier way to get to central Baja than by burro trail; a ticket to Bahia Asuncion was $20US, meals included, which would have been preferrable to riding a burro for 250 miles in the desert!

The few that rode those trails back in the day were tough!


[Edited on 5-5-2022 by bajaric]


Indeed they were!
Let us keep searching for views into the past... :light: