BajaNomad - The California exodus continues as residents head south of the border

You have to wonder what the effect on the average Mexican all this migration by people who earn considerably more or have far more purchasing power is. Surely all the extra real estate demand must have some inflationary effect as it did in Vancouver over the past couple decades when all the Asian investments were occurring?
The governments keep adding or boosting foreign investment taxes in a futile effort to squash demand.

I had a girl who worked for me and lived outside Vancouver. This was about 2013. She use to talk about the Chinese flying helicopters over her neighborhood all the time searching for places to buy.

AKgringo - 6-12-2022 at 07:57 PM

Even Anchorage is starting to look pretty good compared to urban California areas. The added cost of shipping goods to AK is offset by lower taxes, energy, and housing.

JDCanuck - 6-12-2022 at 08:05 PM

I kinda prefer the remoteness of Baja myself, despite the snakes, scorpions and black widows. Being chased by a cloud of black flies or mosquitoes is no fun at all.

mtgoat666 - 6-12-2022 at 08:59 PM

I have lived in CA, NW, NE, and midwest.
CA is still my fave place. WA is 2nd. Texas, FLA and san felipe are still bottom of the bottom of the list.
May be a bit more expensive in cali, but the pay is higher here too. All balances out.

I have found that cheaper places to live are usually not as desireable as more expensive places…

I dont have to shovel snow. The weather is warm in winter, moderate in summer. I have almost no elec or natural gas costs here in cali. I live 15 min from great ocean. I live in a big city with big city attractions. Whats no to like?

Yes it cost more than lake havasu az.

Have you ever been to lake havasu? No thanks!

[Edited on 6-13-2022 by mtgoat666]

TMW - 6-12-2022 at 09:50 PM

Leaving the US is very trendy, not only in CA. Q.: Do you know the best view of Texas??? ..... A.: In your rear mirror! Florida?? Oh Yea, that´s the state where most people carry their nasty dogs on their arms as the dogs should not walk! The northern States of the US are still o.k. Some people imigrate to Russia nowerdays. The land where people can invest and live free.

Russia !!!! You need to get back on your meds.

TMW - 6-12-2022 at 10:06 PM

I have lived in CA, NW, NE, and midwest.
CA is still my fave place. WA is 2nd. Texas, FLA and san felipe are still bottom of the bottom of the list.
May be a bit more expensive in cali, but the pay is higher here too. All balances out.

I dont have to shovel snow. The weather is warm in winter, moderate in summer. I have almost no elec or natural gas costs here in cali. I live 15 min from great ocean. I live in a big city with big city attractions. Whats no to like?

Yes it cost more than lake havasu az.

Have you ever been to lake havasu? No thanks!

[Edited on 6-13-2022 by mtgoat666]

Nobody is questioning the attractions of CA. The climate is great. It has the ocean, mountains and deserts all great. But who can afford it. That's why people are leaving. Businesses are taxed to the hilt that's why they are leaving and/or won't come here. The environmentalist have taken over the Dem party and are forcing the shut down of the oil industry. Do you know how many people depend on working for the oil companies to live?

BajaBlanca - 6-12-2022 at 10:16 PM

We saw that program on TV, shocking how many are leaving but in San Diego, you cannot rent a studio for less than $1500+ and its only 450 sq feet of space. Prices for groceries, over the top expensive. I am very glad I don't have little kids and live there.

We moved to Turkiye this year after 16 years in BCS, as most of you are aware. So many ex-pats are moving here and buying that the gvt has decided to limit the # of foreigners in any given area to 25%. No more resident permits will be given over that percentage.

Very few American and thousands of Brits, as well as Scandinavians with the latest influx being Russians and Ukranians. We are in the smallish city of Alanya and there are 10,000 ex-pats in our social media group. What a change from La Bocana where we were total foreigners and nowadays number around 15.

SFandH - 6-13-2022 at 05:42 AM

Quote: Originally posted by TMW

Here are the 10 states with the highest corporate tax rate:

Iowa (12.00%)
New Jersey (10.05%)
Pennsylvania (9.99%)
Minnesota (9.80%)
Illinois (9.50%)
Alaska (9.40%)
Maine (8.93%)
California (8.84%)
Delaware (8.70%)
Vermont (8.50%)

the average is 6%

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/corporate-t...

My biggest problem with CA is the population. IMHO it's too crowded.

However, moving to Mexico from CA is a major move in many ways. I bet a large percentage move back within a year or two.

[Edited on 6-13-2022 by SFandH]

AKgringo - 6-13-2022 at 06:42 AM

I was unaware of the Alaska corporate tax rate. There is no state sales tax, or personal income tax.

John Harper - 6-13-2022 at 06:53 AM

I think this is a rating of personal income tax rates, California the highest. Alaska rate of 0%.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/highest-tax...

Isn't Alaska state government almost 100% dependent on revenue from the extraction (drilling, mining, forest products, commercial fishing) industries? Without that, I would imagine taxes would be structured differently. And, the population of Alaska is miniscule compared with California. Without generous government subsidies, it would likely be prohibitively expensive to live in Alaska.

John

[Edited on 6-13-2022 by John Harper]

SFandH - 6-13-2022 at 07:10 AM

Unfortunately, I've never been income taxed at the highest rate. That would be a nice problem to have.

mtgoat666 - 6-13-2022 at 07:54 AM

Quote: Originally posted by John Harper

I think this is a rating of personal income tax rates, California the highest. Alaska rate of 0%.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/highest-tax...

Isn't Alaska state government almost 100% dependent on revenue from the extraction (drilling, mining, forest products, commercial fishing) industries? Without that, I would imagine taxes would be structured differently. And, the population of Alaska is miniscule compared with California. Without generous government subsidies, it would likely be prohibitively expensive to live in Alaska.

John

[Edited on 6-13-2022 by John Harper]

Alaska: cold in winter, buggy in summer, rains a lot in SE, etc.
I have observed that Alaskans are always fleeing to hawaii for vacation, and fleeing to seattle (and rest of lower 48) for all manner of things unavailable in Alaska…

Socialism is alive and well in Alaska. They consume much more in federal funds than they pay in taxes, and the state owns massive amounts of land so instead of taxing citizens they pay everyone for doing nothing :lol:

nirvana. We should send California homeless to Alaska!
:lol:

Democratic-voting blue states tend to be wealthier and pay more to the federal government than they get. In contrast, Republican-voting red states tend to have less wealth and receive more federal government funds than they pay.
https://www.moneygeek.com/living/states-most-reliant-federal...
Why are red states such moochers?

[Edited on 6-13-2022 by mtgoat666]

RFClark - 6-13-2022 at 09:38 AM

Goat,

Since this is a Baja Interest site why don’t you compare The Democrat People’s Republic to stuff in Baja??

David K - 6-13-2022 at 10:10 AM

Isn't funny how communist dictatorships call their countries "People's Republics" or "Democratic Republic's" or "Democratic People's Republics"?

Who are they fooling...?
Fake names...!
Kind of like CNN pretending to be a news channel! :lol:

RFClark - 6-13-2022 at 10:31 AM

David,

It’s simple! When something belongs to “The People” someone needs to take care of it for “The People”! After all you can't trust them to take care of it themselves! (Think Free Speech here!) The job to have is being the one to “care” for it! (And in the process tell everyone else what to do!)

AKgringo - 6-13-2022 at 10:49 AM

The original topic was about people leaving CA. That includes my brother-in-law in Grass Valley (Nevada County) who is moving to Oklahoma this month.

He is third generation here, and aside from a couple of years in Alaska with my family, he has spent his whole life in GV.

He is a stable working man with good local connections, but the exploding real estate prices and cost of living has kept home ownership just out of his reach!

His wife is from Oklahoma, and even though he is in his mid 50s, he is going to start over in another state!

JC43 - 6-13-2022 at 12:34 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Isn't funny how communist dictatorships call their countries "People's Republics" or "Democratic Republic's" or "Democratic People's Republics"?

Who are they fooling...?
Fake names...!
Kind of like CNN pretending to be a news channel! :lol:

What do you mean by "communist dictatorships"? R U talking about China? Well, correct. But none other. Or R U pretending that the U.S. is a democratic Country???? Well, if an Orang-Utan is capable of organizing a fundraiser --- the next President of the USA might be an Orang-Utan. (I donno, but it is hitting my memory, that there was a President alsready somehow looking like an Oeang-Utan. But I forgot his name. CNN not a news channel? Correct. Fox is batteling CNN - vice versa.

David K - 6-13-2022 at 12:58 PM

North Korea and Vietnam also come to mind.

No, the U.S. is a republic or to be more exact, a representative republic.

We use democratic elections to vote for our representatives and judges, to make and enforce laws.

A republic is a land governed by laws... laws that protect the minority or the individual. A democracy simply is a land governed by the 'mob' (majority) and not necessarily by its written, constitutional laws.

JC43 - 6-13-2022 at 03:19 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

North Korea and Vietnam also come to mind.

No, the U.S. is a republic or to be more exact, a representative republic.

We use democratic elections to vote for our representatives and judges, to make and enforce laws.

A republic is a land governed by laws... laws that protect the minority or the individual. A democracy simply is a land governed by the 'mob' (majority) and not necessarily by its written, constitutional laws.

.......laws that protect the minority or the individual.......Hahahaha :lol:

Oh, that´s why George Floyed had to die?????? Protected by whom??
David, wake up! What u r saying is pure theory - no reality. And "protected" means not: Blacks are shot (in the back if needed) and the white murderer free to go after the trial. Or what??? Overall, and that is the headline. .... leaving CA. Why? b/c for the majority of people it is simply to expensive to live in CA. Only the Rich and Famous can afford to live in CA. (and the Mexcicans are allowed to live in CA as somebody needs to work and do the jobs which are essential for those others to keep the State clean.
......A democracy simply is a land governed by the 'mob' (majority) and not necessarily by its written, constitutional laws.....
What kind of BS are you talking. So, France. The UK. Germany most other coutries in the world calling themselfs ´Democracy` are gouverned by the mob??????? U R kidding, right. Or you are a man who is living ONLY in the past.

[Edited on 6-13-2022 by JC43]

willardguy - 6-13-2022 at 04:05 PM

I have lived in CA, NW, NE, and midwest.
CA is still my fave place. WA is 2nd. Texas, FLA and san felipe are still bottom of the bottom of the list.
May be a bit more expensive in cali, but the pay is higher here too. All balances out.

I have found that cheaper places to live are usually not as desireable as more expensive places…

I dont have to shovel snow. The weather is warm in winter, moderate in summer. I have almost no elec or natural gas costs here in cali. I live 15 min from great ocean. I live in a big city with big city attractions. Whats no to like?

Yes it cost more than lake havasu az.

Have you ever been to lake havasu? No thanks!

[Edited on 6-13-2022 by mtgoat666]

I notice you left out AZ of the places you have lived, you folks that have been around this site for awhile probably remember goats location always being TUCSON......are you embarrassed by having lived in Arizona? :?:

mtgoat666 - 6-13-2022 at 07:12 PM

Quote: Originally posted by willardguy

I have lived in CA, NW, NE, and midwest.
CA is still my fave place. WA is 2nd. Texas, FLA and san felipe are still bottom of the bottom of the list.
May be a bit more expensive in cali, but the pay is higher here too. All balances out.

I have found that cheaper places to live are usually not as desireable as more expensive places…

I dont have to shovel snow. The weather is warm in winter, moderate in summer. I have almost no elec or natural gas costs here in cali. I live 15 min from great ocean. I live in a big city with big city attractions. Whats no to like?

Yes it cost more than lake havasu az.

Have you ever been to lake havasu? No thanks!

[Edited on 6-13-2022 by mtgoat666]

You are a fool! :lol:

Never lived in Tucson!

Don’t believe everything Chuck Levitin told you!

RFClark - 6-13-2022 at 09:05 PM

David,

Looks like we know who has that job of watching what belongs to everyone!

RFClark - 6-13-2022 at 09:40 PM

JC43 (and Others!

Republics, the US is a Republic, are messy no two ways about it! If trains running on time are your thing and executions by organ transplant don't bother you the PRC is your kind of place!

[Edited on 6-14-2022 by RFClark]

Back to the original topic?

pauldavidmena - 6-14-2022 at 05:04 AM

My family grew up in NY (Farmingdale). My brothers moved to CA in the late 80s, while I moved to SC, AL, MN, and then - 26 years ago - MA. One of my brothers pulled up his stakes from Ventura County, CA once his youngest graduated from high school for the clean air and lower taxes of Idaho. My other brother is still enjoying palm trees and smog in Redondo Beach.

My wife and I got lucky buying a house on Cape Cod 5 years ago. We couldn't touch it now. If we're going to have another chapter in terms of home ownership, it probably won't be on either coast, and very well could be in Mexico.

[Edited on 6-14-2022 by pauldavidmena]

JDCanuck - 6-14-2022 at 11:38 AM

It's very true the wealthiest people living in blue states tend to vote for one party, while the poorer people in other states have shifted lately to vote for the other. If you are working class you tend to look at affordability and ability to raise a family in a healthy environment without excessive restrictions on your ability to advance in life through your own efforts.
Maybe this explains some of the recent migration patterns?

bajatrailrider - 6-14-2022 at 11:55 AM

Most I know live in Baja have money all Ex Calif. All like it here have no plans to return. To bumper to bumper cars too many restrictions dont forget the WLs running the show.

advrider - 6-14-2022 at 10:06 PM

We are on the verge of leaving California and my wife is 5th generation! Mexico is on the list. A neighbor's house just sold for 700k (a couple of years ago it would have been maybe 300k) and they were quoted 200k to redo the decks after they bought it, there only concern is who do we write the check to! Not sure how much longer we can afford to live here, especially after I just retired. Yes we will make a killing on our house but that's not the point for us.

JDCanuck - 6-15-2022 at 06:07 AM

Most reported reason up here for relocating to Mexico is not the economic costs difference but rather the pressure to escape onerous life style rules being forced on us by social redesign politicians. The ability financially to do so by selling out inflated real estate and rebuilding in Mexico is secondary. Unfortunately, our kids and grandkids cannot afford to pay the prices for housing that the better financed Asian immigrants can, and homelessness is exploding.

mtgoat666 - 6-15-2022 at 06:12 AM

Most reported reason up here for relocating to Mexico is not the economic costs difference but rather the pressure to escape onerous life style rules being forced on us by social redesign politicians..

Got an example of the onerous lifestyle rules?

JDCanuck - 6-15-2022 at 06:23 AM

Mtgoat: We just purchased a vehicle to Drive to Baja, and have not yet sold the existing one it's replacing 2 days ago. I was informed by the bylaw officer we now temporarily have 4 vehicles parked in our driveway of a 5 bedroom house and the neighbours have submitted a complaint to the city to have us immediately remove one.
Last issue these anonymous neighbours had was I was washing by hand the grime and tar off my motorbike when I returned from a long tour. They mistakenly had the idea hand washing a vehicle was against bylaws on that particular day, resulting in yet another warning and visit by the bylaw officer. Try cutting down a dead tree in your yard thats about to fall over and watch the reaction. Denials to remove diseased dangerous trees have resulted in more than one falling in a storm on houses in our area. Does the anonymous complainer pay for the resulting property damage? No.

[Edited on 6-15-2022 by JDCanuck]

mtgoat666 - 6-15-2022 at 06:41 AM

Mtgoat: We just purchased a vehicle to Drive to Baja, and have not yet sold the existing one it's replacing 2 days ago. I was informed by the bylaw officer we now temporarily have 4 vehicles parked in our driveway of a 5 bedroom house and the neighbours have submitted a complaint to the city to have us immediately remove one.
Last issue these anonymous neighbours had was I was washing by hand the grime and tar off my motorbike when I returned from a long tour. They mistakenly had the idea hand washing a vehicle was against bylaws on that particular day. Try cutting down a dead tree in your yard thats about to fall over and watch the reaction.

Sounds like an HOA. I hear stories of such in USA, but have never lived in a neighborhood with HOA rules.

That said, sometimes living in the city requires social behavior adjustments relative to country living. Living in the city has a lot of benefits — country living can be pretty dull if you enjoy urban life.

Anywho, sounds like minor annoyance, but does not rise to level that one should flee their country.

JDCanuck - 6-15-2022 at 07:14 AM

No HOA here, just municipal bylaws people have demanded be applied across the populace, we sold out of our last one as it went far worse and included the colour of pots you could have on your balcony requiring approval.
We used to pride ourselves on tolerance and support of neighbours, but the "Wokeness" has hit new levels of idiocy as anonymous complaints are encouraged by politicians rather than asking people to talk to their neighbours and resolve issues with informed accommodation.
I have watched the latest round of enforced bylaws and resulting costs cause exploding homelessness, drug addiction deaths and closure of low cost rentals and housing.
Meeting the desires of the privileged few to force their lifestyles on those who cannot possibly afford it is now our biggest enemy in social planning.

JDCanuck - 6-15-2022 at 07:43 AM

And it's true I was raised in a rural supportive environment and my personal views are tainted by that experience. I recently did a trip through upper Montana and noted every time i pulled over to the side of the road to take a break, at least the third vehicle by would stop to ask if I needed help or directions. These people represented to me those " uneducated Rednecks" the privileged elite like to disparage. I would not want to compare that lifestyle with what exists today in the more populated economically advantaged areas in the US. So people will naturally search for more accepting areas to live in, not necessarily fleeing what is less so.
This pretty much sums up why we were drawn to Baja as we noted the locals exhibited much the same priorities.

[Edited on 6-15-2022 by JDCanuck]

JC43 - 6-15-2022 at 07:49 AM

JC43 (and Others!

Republics, the US is a Republic, are messy no two ways about it! If trains running on time are your thing and executions by organ transplant don't bother you the PRC is your kind of place!
[Edited on 6-14-2022 by RFClark]

Somehow correct / but only somehow. If the development continues like right now, CA will be renamed in the future as "Peoples Lepublic of China, distlict of Notel Amelican" :lol:

mtgoat666 - 6-15-2022 at 07:49 AM

Canuckie:
While the rules sound annoying, they sound minor relative to appropriate causes to uproot and move to an undeveloped region like baja.

mtgoat666 - 6-15-2022 at 07:53 AM

Somehow correct / but only somehow. If the development continues like right now, CA will be renamed in the future as "Peoples Lepublic of China, distlict of Notel Amelican" :lol:

Uh, oh, now you have resorted to racist mocking of foreign languages… not good.

I am more impressed with Chinese that learn a second language like English. Perhaps you should learn to speak and read mandarin or Cantonese before you mock Chinese people that speak English as a second language.

SFandH - 6-15-2022 at 08:14 AM

I highly encourage people to leave SoCal. Please. Go. Adios.

And then there is the County.....

AKgringo - 6-15-2022 at 08:25 AM

In Nevada county they have gone overboard with restrictions and requirements for what you can build on your own property. I have long dreamed of building a modest house on the property my grandfather bought before I was born, but it looks like I would be spending 30 to 50K before I would be able to break ground.

Setting up a place to park an RV for occasional use is illegal unless you have already gone through the extremely expensive process of securing a building permit, for a much more complicated structure than you need, or want!

JDCanuck - 6-15-2022 at 09:07 AM

Same happening here Akgringo. It's illegal to allow a homeless person to occupy an RV on your 2 acre rural property, but it's increasingly common to ignore and despise the shopping cart people sleeping in alleys and under bridges downtown.

surabi - 6-15-2022 at 09:47 AM

If the development continues like right now, CA will be renamed in the future as "Peoples Lepublic of China, distlict of Notel Amelican" :lol:

Prime example of what is wrong with the US. You find your own racism hilariously funny.

RFClark - 6-15-2022 at 10:20 AM

Yes, but in jc43’s case it’s someone who doesn't do well in English mocking others who have problems with English.

RFClark - 6-15-2022 at 10:23 AM

Goat,

All journeys start with the same 1st step. Baja’s no harder than anywher else to move to!

JDCanuck - 6-15-2022 at 11:23 AM

Am I the only one who sees a heart in the people of Baja that somehow has been lost in our own culture as we became more and more economically advantaged? We are not "fleeing" our culture but embracing one we admire.
When my wife was struggling with a walker in Baja, streetside vendors would quickly provide their seats so she could take a break, give up their seats on public transportation, or help her cross the roads. I was struck by how many would prompt their children to stand on the transports so us "seniors"could sit and be more comfortable. I watch them treat their own seniors with the same respect and honour them as well.

JC43 - 6-15-2022 at 12:05 PM

Yes, but in jc43’s case it’s someone who doesn't do well in English mocking others who have problems with English.

I am not mocking Chinese people who cannot pronaunce the "R". That is kinda nature of the Chinese. Asmuch as the French people cannot pronaounce the "H". But as you are badmouthing me this is my question to you: Can you speak French perfectly? Without accent?? Or German? Or Chinese? This is what the world knows about languages: If you speak 3 languages you are either from Israel or Germany or another highly edjucated country. If you speak two langueges you are from Africa, Asia or Northern Europe. If you speak only one language, you are for certain a Gringo. :light:

bajatrailrider - 6-15-2022 at 01:30 PM

BajaGringo - 6-15-2022 at 02:10 PM

Over the last couple of decades I have had the opportunity to meet and talk with lots and lots of gringos moving south into Mexico and their reasons used to be mostly getting away from the crowds and traffic as well as seeking a slower pace of life with affordable access to the sea.

That has been changing and it seems like over the last 4 or 5 years, the one reason I hear most now is that they are tired of all the political fighting going on that has divided them from their close friends and even their own families. They just don't want to listen to that any more and I would say they were probably fairly evenly divided between Republicans and Democrats.

I am tired of it too and probably the single reason I don't spend much time here anymore. Looking at the stats, it appears that I am not alone...

charliemanson - 6-15-2022 at 02:16 PM

Am I the only one who sees a heart in the people of Baja that somehow has been lost in our own culture as we became more and more economically advantaged? We are not "fleeing" our culture but embracing one we admire.
When my wife was struggling with a walker in Baja, streetside vendors would quickly provide their seats so she could take a break, give up their seats on public transportation, or help her cross the roads. I was struck by how many would prompt their children to stand on the transports so us "seniors"could sit and be more comfortable. I watch them treat their own seniors with the same respect and honour them as well.

Very true. Many here are the most humble, caring ( as you see them with family) and truly honest people around. Granted there exceptions as we all know.

What frightens me is, the present culture of “gringos“ moving here with their attitudes, and frankly MAGAot, beliefs. I have seen it over the past 20 years of living her full time and married to a “patrona“. Gringo attitudes have went from decent to super annoying.
The culture of Trumpism is defiantly starting to show its ugly face down here, and I am constantly questioned if I am a Trump “supporter“, as from where I sit, it is a question asked with eyes on me.

To all considering moving down here, it is awesome! I wouldn't change a thing. Just PLEASE leave the “D“umster, and all the attitudes that come with being a MAGAot at the door when you cross.

We, as people are no better, or worse as humans than Mexican people. Just don't try and change who they are to be like you.

Favorite quote from Gringos that I constantly hear... “why don't they learn to speak English?

Really :rolleyes:

[Edited on 6-15-2022 by charliemanson]

[Edited on 6-16-2022 by BajaNomad]

RFClark - 6-15-2022 at 05:56 PM

CJ43,

My experience in France is that people there don’t think the french who live down the road 50KM speak French! The thing they all agree on is that what ever they speak in Quebec isn’t French at all!

Personally I speak American English plus several technical sub-sets that might be considered separate languages by those who don’t understand them. I also speak reasonable Mexican Spanish and when I was in a different line of work long ago fair Russian. I speak all of them, including English with an accent!

surabi - 6-15-2022 at 07:26 PM

Yes, but in jc43’s case it’s someone who doesn't do well in English mocking others who have problems with English.

I am not mocking Chinese people who cannot pronaunce the "R". That is kinda nature of the Chinese.

Making fun of the the pronunciation of a non-native English speaker is exactly the definition of mocking them.
Claiming you aren't racist means nothing when your words prove otherwise and you don't care about offending the people you are mocking.

bajatrailrider - 6-15-2022 at 09:50 PM

How did you get from people leaving Calif ? to this Baja Blow hard at there best. :?:

JDCanuck - 6-15-2022 at 10:01 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaBlanca

We saw that program on TV, shocking how many are leaving but in San Diego, you cannot rent a studio for less than $1500+ and its only 450 sq feet of space. Prices for groceries, over the top expensive. I am very glad I don't have little kids and live there.

We moved to Turkiye this year after 16 years in BCS, as most of you are aware. So many ex-pats are moving here and buying that the gvt has decided to limit the # of foreigners in any given area to 25%. No more resident permits will be given over that percentage.

Very few American and thousands of Brits, as well as Scandinavians with the latest influx being Russians and Ukranians. We are in the smallish city of Alanya and there are 10,000 ex-pats in our social media group. What a change from La Bocana where we were total foreigners and nowadays number around 15.

Interesting post to say the least. Is there any country in the world I know less about and am more interested in learning more about than Turkey? Have you yet traveled to Istanbul? Looking forward to more reports on what you learn there as you delve into the history and waves of cyclical civilization as it developed there.

LancairDriver - 6-15-2022 at 11:13 PM

I admire Turkey’s leader Recep Erdogan. He doesn’t take any guff from the US and goes his own way in the best interests of his country. Turkey is a very interesting part of the world.

[Edited on 6-16-2022 by LancairDriver]

SFandH - 6-16-2022 at 05:52 AM

Quote: Originally posted by LancairDriver

I admire Turkey’s leader Recep Erdogan. He doesn’t take any guff from the US and goes his own way in the best interests of his country. Turkey is a very interesting part of the world.

[Edited on 6-16-2022 by LancairDriver]

That's an unusual opinion. He's effectively a dictator. His major opposition candidate was recently sentenced to 5 years in prison for Twitter posts insulting him and his government.

In 2017:

"Erdoğan declared himself the winner of a nationwide referendum that all but brings Turkish democracy to an end. The vast new powers granted to Erdoğan—wide control over the judiciary, broad powers to make law by decree, the abolition of the office of the Prime Minister and of Turkey’s parliamentary system—effectively make him a dictator. Under the new rules, Erdoğan will be able to run for two more five-year terms, giving him potentially another decade in power, at least. With a vote by the now truncated parliament, he would be able to run for yet another term, one that would end in 2034. By then, he’ll be an old man.

The voting took place in a government-created atmosphere of violence, intimidation, and fear. Turks campaigning against the referendum were attacked and even shot at. For much of the past year, Erdoğan’s government has been working to stamp out what remained of the democratic opposition to his rule. Since July, some forty thousand people have been detained, including a hundred and fifty journalists. A hundred thousand government employees have been fired, and a hundred and seventy-nine television stations, newspapers, and other media outlets have been closed. Many opposition leaders are in jail. That’s not an environment conducive to asking a populace what it wants."

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/turkeys-vote-makes-...

[Edited on 6-16-2022 by SFandH]

mtgoat666 - 6-16-2022 at 06:38 AM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH

Quote: Originally posted by LancairDriver

That's an unusual opinion. He's effectively a dictator. His major opposition candidate was recently sentenced to 5 years in prison for Twitter posts insulting him and his government.

Erdogan is a despot, a dictator, a stain on humanity.
It is incomprehensible how an American can support Erdogan,… but is also par for the course with MAGA ******s.

SFandH - 6-16-2022 at 06:52 AM