BajaNomad - Solar - Buyer Beware

I would never buy from them. They’re too expensive.

Here’s a link to batteries that are $359 each and they have great service. I own 14 of them. I’ve used 6 for over 6 months with no problem. They run 24/7.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B094NN5KWY/

What all do you power with those batteries?

[Edited on 8-20-2022 by BajaNomad]

Bob and Susan - 8-17-2022 at 11:51 AM

jz ...only good for your pick up truck////too small///200ah min for a house application

mtgoat666 - 8-17-2022 at 12:08 PM

jz ...only good for your pick up truck////too small///200ah min for a house application

Susan,
Most house applications use multiple batteries!

Bob and Susan - 8-17-2022 at 12:17 PM

very good goat... but 100ah is too small...its a golf cart battery....

its actually 4 three v batteries connected together to make 12v

the part that connects the 4 batteries together fails when over loaded

RFClark - 8-17-2022 at 01:55 PM

B&S,

I use those batteries in 48V arrays. You can build a 16 battery array 20KW per 16. We ran the house we sold off of 8KW plus 8KW more stand by with a generator back up. We only used either when we ran the AC at night.

SFandH - 8-17-2022 at 02:10 PM

My fragile, aching back says two 100ah batteries wired in parallel are better than one 200ah. Plus it provides some redundancy. I use two instead of one in my small 12-volt RV solar system. I move the batteries at least 6 times a year.

mtgoat666 - 8-17-2022 at 02:54 PM

very good goat... but 100ah is too small...its a golf cart battery....

its actually 4 three v batteries connected together to make 12v

the part that connects the 4 batteries together fails when over loaded

Susy,
Look at the tesla car batteries and power walls. These large batteries are made up of many, many small batteries. Size does not matter! :lol:

RFClark - 8-17-2022 at 05:36 PM

Goat,

B&S still use lead acid batteries and think 220VAC is the work of the Devil. You’ll have to excuse them!

Bob and Susan - 8-18-2022 at 06:39 AM

220v saves NO POWER

this is an urban myth

BajaTed - 8-18-2022 at 08:35 AM

BUT:
When running for the same long period, the efficiency of a 120-volt air conditioner and a 220-volt air conditioner are about the same, and the power used is about the same.
If placed improperly, both types of equipment will not work properly-120V; air conditioners are ineffective and will consume too much power when placed in a room that is too large for them, while 220V air conditioners placed in a smaller room will reduce efficiency.

David K - 8-18-2022 at 09:03 AM

Ted, which is it?

A: "the efficiency of a 120-volt air conditioner and a 220-volt air conditioner are about the same, and the power used is about the same."

B: "120V; air conditioners are ineffective and will consume too much power when placed in a room that is too large for them, while 220V air conditioners placed in a smaller room will reduce efficiency."

Will a 120 volt be fine in a smaller room?
Will a 220 volt be fine in a larger room?
Why is a 220 volt not efficient in a smaller room?

Thank you and sorry if my mind is a bit muddled at trying to understand this. I appreciate your time to answer.

Bob and Susan - 8-18-2022 at 09:17 AM

12,000 btu for 400 sq feet
voltage doesnt matter

btu s matter

Don Pisto - 8-18-2022 at 09:46 AM

we took a different approach, we only used ac at night and could care less about cooling the entire room as long as cool air blew on the bed. for us a small window unit running on a 2000 watt generator in eco mode kept us quite happy. :coolup:

[Edited on 8-18-2022 by Don Pisto]

RFClark - 8-18-2022 at 10:48 AM

B&S

Based on your philosophy that higher voltages don’t increase efficiency, why are most inverters now 48V rather than 12V?

Bob and Susan - 8-18-2022 at 10:57 AM

more money /// its ALWAYS about the profit

take apart a 12v and a 48v inverter...its just a bunch of circuit boards now days

they do make the 48v inverters higher wattage capacity but if they beefed up a 12v the same wattage could be obtained

hottest part of the day is 2pm to 9pm... it would seem that is the best time to run AC

AKgringo - 8-18-2022 at 11:22 AM

I know very little about design of electric systems, but I know that resistance is part of the equation. The size, and length of the wires matters!

When my ski club in Anchorage decided to install lights for night skiing, we wound up using 660v lights at low watts for the most efficiency.

Bob and Susan - 8-18-2022 at 11:54 AM

that doesnt sound right...

AKgringo - 8-18-2022 at 11:59 AM

that doesnt sound right...

Like I said, it is not my field. Maybe it was 660v with low amps? They put out quite a bit of light, but did not give off a lot of heat.

Don Pisto - 8-18-2022 at 12:14 PM

of course its about saving money and weight. take a look at a modern wiring harness in a new car vs an old 12 volt harness.

Bob and Susan - 8-18-2022 at 12:44 PM

geeez a new car wire harness is 12v....normally

RFClark - 8-18-2022 at 12:58 PM

B&S,

I understand you plug your house into the 12V plug on your car. BTW big trucks are 24V and have been for years. Other heavy equipment and AC run 48V.

BajaTed - 8-18-2022 at 01:05 PM

I know very little about design of electric systems, but I know that resistance is part of the equation. The size, and length of the wires matters!

When my ski club in Anchorage decided to install lights for night skiing, we wound up using 660v lights at low watts for the most efficiency.

Goal was to mitigate install cost of lower voltage systems due to wire lengths it would seem.

willardguy - 8-18-2022 at 01:11 PM

geeez a new car wire harness is 12v....normally

there it is, a true Bobism! better get used to 48 volt systems Bob, they're already here :rolleyes:

BajaTed - 8-18-2022 at 01:12 PM

Ted, which is it?

A: "the efficiency of a 120-volt air conditioner and a 220-volt air conditioner are about the same, and the power used is about the same."

B: "120V; air conditioners are ineffective and will consume too much power when placed in a room that is too large for them, while 220V air conditioners placed in a smaller room will reduce efficiency."

Will a 120 volt be fine in a smaller room?
Will a 220 volt be fine in a larger room?
Why is a 220 volt not efficient in a smaller room?

Thank you and sorry if my mind is a bit muddled at trying to understand this. I appreciate your time to answer.

My AZ home is 220 Vac because the A/C unit is about 70' away from the main panel. BTU's are whatt count but install costs due to distances are a factor too.

[Edited on 8-18-2022 by BajaTed]

BajaTed - 8-18-2022 at 01:20 PM

Four 15 amp plugs @ 12 VDC is 300 amps, that is costly wire on the DC system side.
48 VDC is 75 Amps, less costly wire.
Both same system efficiency.

"Only God & Electricians can make light safe or safe light"

Bob and Susan - 8-18-2022 at 02:21 PM

B&S,

I understand you plug your house into the 12V plug on your car. BTW big trucks are 24V and have been for years. Other heavy equipment and AC run 48V.

read....the post says car not SEMI Truck

even pickups are 12v even if they have 2 batteries

Bob and Susan - 8-18-2022 at 02:24 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaTed

My AZ home is 220 Vac because the A/C unit is about 70' away from the main panel. BTU's are whatt count but install costs due to distances are a factor too.

some installer sold you a "bill of goods"
70 feet is NOTHING for 110v

110v can go along way

remember 220v is just two 110v lines hooked to you AC unit

mjs - 8-18-2022 at 02:55 PM

B&S. Suggest you read up on Ohm's law and voltage drop. Higher voltage is always better for higher efficiency (for overall system design not necessarily a single appliance) and longer wire runs with smaller gauge wire. Why much of the world is 230 volt and commercial/ industrial facilities are 277/480 volt or more.

FYI, don't be cutting any of the orange cables in your new car as these are high voltage (as identified by the orange color).

SFandH - 8-18-2022 at 03:35 PM

Isn't there a safety consideration in the 120 vs. 240 volt debate? I find 120 volt jolts shocking. I've never experienced a 240 volt jolt and don't want to. Electricity frightens me.

How much power is floating around in the wires in electric cars?

Newsflash: "Man electrocuted, fried to a crisp, trying to fix broken down Tesla."

David K - 8-18-2022 at 03:45 PM

B&S,

I understand you plug your house into the 12V plug on your car. BTW big trucks are 24V and have been for years. Other heavy equipment and AC run 48V.

read....the post says car not SEMI Truck

even pickups are 12v even if they have 2 batteries

My first car (VW powered buggy) was 6-volt. Jeeps were also 6 volts to 1956.

David K - 8-18-2022 at 03:52 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaTed

My AZ home is 220 Vac because the A/C unit is about 70' away from the main panel. BTU's are whatt count but install costs due to distances are a factor too.

Sorry, I am not seeing the answers, but understand about distance being aided with the use of 220v.
I am still interested in learning the answer to my questions... anyone?

Don Pisto - 8-18-2022 at 04:26 PM

Isn't there a safety consideration in the 120 vs. 240 volt debate? I find 120 volt jolts shocking. I've never experienced a 240 volt jolt and don't want to. Electricity frightens me.

How much power is floating around in the wires in electric cars?

Newsflash: "Man electrocuted, fried to a crisp, trying to fix broken down Tesla."

all old timer electricians used their fingers to test circuits 110 to 220, as long as you're not standing in a puddle and use two fingers on one hand you're fine. I've seen em lick their fingers! I've done it but I'll opt for the wiggy!

pacificobob - 8-18-2022 at 04:35 PM

Folks who are confused regarding Ohm's law often find it helpful to think of a water pipe as an analogy.

Pipe diameter = resistance
Pressure = volts
GPM= amps

SFandH - 8-18-2022 at 04:47 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Don Pisto

Really? Oh man, I hate getting shocked. There have been a few times. I have an old wiggy in my toolbox.

John Harper - 8-18-2022 at 04:48 PM

Isn't there a safety consideration in the 120 vs. 240 volt debate? I find 120 volt jolts shocking. I've never experienced a 240 volt jolt and don't want to. Electricity frightens me.

It's not the volts, it's the amps that will kill you. I'm sure you've been shocked by a spark plug? Over 50,000 volts, but tiny, tiny amperage. That's why it doesn't kill you.

John

SFandH - 8-18-2022 at 04:49 PM

Quote: Originally posted by pacificobob

Folks who are confused regarding Ohm's law often find it helpful to think of a water pipe as an analogy.

Pipe diameter = resistance
Pressure = volts
GPM= amps

classic way to explain electricity to newbies

SFandH - 8-18-2022 at 04:55 PM

Isn't there a safety consideration in the 120 vs. 240 volt debate? I find 120 volt jolts shocking. I've never experienced a 240 volt jolt and don't want to. Electricity frightens me.

It's not the volts, it's the amps that will kill you. I'm sure you've been shocked by a spark plug? Over 50,000 volts, but tiny, tiny amperage. That's why it doesn't kill you.

John

I've never quite understood that. Let's say you're fooling around in the circuit breaker box in your house, 110 and 220 are there depending upon the wires you touch. Wouldn't the 220 be more dangerous?

pacificobob - 8-18-2022 at 05:02 PM

Isn't there a safety consideration in the 120 vs. 240 volt debate? I find 120 volt jolts shocking. I've never experienced a 240 volt jolt and don't want to. Electricity frightens me.

It's not the volts, it's the amps that will kill you. I'm sure you've been shocked by a spark plug? Over 50,000 volts, but tiny, tiny amperage. That's why it doesn't kill you.

John

Imagine being in a flooding basement. It not the pressure [voltage]of the entering water that will drown you...its the GPM [AMPS]

SFandH - 8-18-2022 at 05:06 PM

OK, I understand that I think, but it doesn't answer my question.

"Let's say you're fooling around in the circuit breaker box in your house, 110 and 220 are there depending upon the wires you touch. Wouldn't the 220 be more dangerous?"

[Edited on 8-19-2022 by SFandH]

Bob and Susan - 8-18-2022 at 06:25 PM

never work on a "hot box"

your box is normally 110v

220v is 2 breakers of 110v
2 black wires (hot)
1 common
the breaker moves both 110v hot wires off and on at the same time

these go to the 220v appliance

AKgringo - 8-18-2022 at 06:31 PM

"Let's say you're fooling around in the circuit breaker box in your house, 110 and 220 are there depending upon the wires you touch. Wouldn't the 220 be more dangerous?

A 220 circuit in your box would be connected to two 110v terminals.

I had a Norelco shaver that had a selector switch to use either 110 or 220, which is common in many countries.

[Edited on 8-19-2022 by AKgringo]

willardguy - 8-18-2022 at 06:42 PM

never work on a "hot box"

your box is normally 110v

220v is 2 breakers of 110v
2 black wires (hot)
1 common
the breaker moves both 110v hot wires off and on at the same time

these go to the 220v appliance

bob a 220 circuit doesn't require a neutral (or common as you would say) if you don't know what you're talking about......

Bob and Susan - 8-18-2022 at 07:03 PM

bob a 220 circuit doesn't require a neutral (or common as you would say) if you don't know what you're talking about......

really???
no common needed?

willardguy - 8-18-2022 at 07:08 PM

bob a 220 circuit doesn't require a neutral (or common as you would say) if you don't know what you're talking about......

really???
no common needed?

the only reason for a neutral would be if you wanted a 110 volt circuit but it it would have zero to do with the 220 volt circuit.

AKgringo - 8-18-2022 at 07:16 PM

bob a 220 circuit doesn't require a neutral (or common as you would say) if you don't know what you're talking about......

really???
no common needed?

That depends on what the circuit is for. If you are installing a 220v outlet, it would need four wires. Two 110 hot leads, one neutral (or common), ands a ground wire.

Wiring directly to an air conditioner or water heater would use three wires. Two hot leads, and the ground wire would serve as the neutral.

It has been over twenty years since I wired anything, so corrections are welcome if I got it wrong.

John Harper - 8-18-2022 at 07:16 PM

bob a 220 circuit doesn't require a neutral (or common as you would say) if you don't know what you're talking about......

really???
no common needed?

That seems wrong, but I'm more familiar with auto and motorcycle systems. Two and three wire stators, but there is always a path to ground.

John

willardguy - 8-18-2022 at 07:26 PM

bob a 220 circuit doesn't require a neutral (or common as you would say) if you don't know what you're talking about......

really???
no common needed?

wrong, the two hot wires are alternating phase (like a 110 circuit) a ground wire (a low impedance path back to earth ground would not carry current) and this circuit doesn't require a ground of course not a bad idea!

AKgringo - 8-18-2022 at 07:33 PM

Makes sense! All I know is that the water heater I wired (with direction from an electrician) used a 10/2 with ground, and the outlet in the garage used 10/3 with ground.

willardguy - 8-18-2022 at 07:36 PM

Makes sense! All I know is that the water heater I wired (with direction from an electrician) used a 10/2 with ground, and the outlet in the garage used 10/3 with ground.

like I said the only reason for a neutral would be to scab a 110 volt circuit off it.

RFClark - 8-18-2022 at 08:07 PM

Guys,

Every time you double the voltage you cut the current in half and have 1/4 the loss for the same wattage. Loss (E) = Current (I) squared times the resistance (R)

100W of loss at 12V is 25W of loss at 24V and 6.75W at 48V. At 12V the battery, connectors, cable and inverter get hot. 85-100A for 1,000W at 12V. The same 1,000W at 48V is 23A.

220/240 AC in the US is 3 wire plus ground. Generally the ground (G) and the neutral (W) are bonded (tied together) the 2 hot wires (B) measure 220-240 ACV between them and each measure 110-120VAC to the neutral (W) wire.

Most US homes built in the last 50 years have 100A or 200A 220-240 electrical service 220-240 delivers twice the power on 3 wires than the old 2 wire 110-120 service.

[Edited on 8-19-2022 by RFClark]

Bob and Susan - 8-19-2022 at 04:11 AM

if you use two 110v to make a 220v circuit you should run a common...

NEVER use a ground for this purpose

sometimes the 220v appliance uses 110v to power part of it
... like a fan or a clock or a display

if you are stringing wire don't forget the white one...
this is how houses burn down later

don't listen to these "armchair internet" electricians

mtgoat666 - 8-19-2022 at 07:19 AM

don't listen to these "armchair internet" electricians

that is the first correct thing you have posted in many months!

p.s. bobby, are you sufficiently self-aware to realize you too are an armchair internet electrician?

RFClark - 8-19-2022 at 08:16 AM

B&S,

2 - 120V circuits won’t make 220V unless they’re on different legs of your electrical service. Not all direct wired 220V appliances and motors require a white neutral wire, most do require a green ground wire.

Most distribution panels for 220V are designed so that adjacent breakers are on different legs to accommodate double 220 breakers. They also include a way to bond or separate the neutral and ground as desired.

Personally I always bond the neutral and ground and attach them to at least a 6’ earth ground rod placed in the dampest Place I can find.

David K - 8-19-2022 at 08:41 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

don't listen to these "armchair internet" electricians

that is the first correct thing you have posted in many months!

p.s. bobby, are you sufficiently self-aware to realize you too are an armchair internet electrician?

Perhaps if you actually visited his Playa Frambes Lighthouse Resort, you would appreciate Bob's opinion just a bit? It is truly a magnificent mini-resort he built from nothing... I would really enjoy staying there, again!

Seven photos from our time there in 2009 are on this page: https://vivabaja.com/p709/

I returned in 2019 to show it off to Cameron Steele and his Trail of Missions Recon TV show team:

Bob and David K (note camera crew is in the lighthouse)

mjs - 8-19-2022 at 10:47 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

don't listen to these "armchair internet" electricians

that is the first correct thing you have posted in many months!

p.s. bobby, are you sufficiently self-aware to realize you too are an armchair internet electrician?

Perhaps if you actually visited his Playa Frambes Lighthouse Resort, you would appreciate Bob's opinion just a bit?

As a retired 30+ year EC doing multi million $ projects, ah no. His opinion is just that, opinion. Doesn't make it correct.

David K - 8-19-2022 at 01:38 PM

I did use the word "opinion"... 'Respect' is perhaps another word that goat might benefit from?

mtgoat666 - 8-19-2022 at 01:43 PM

I did use the word "opinion"... 'Respect' is perhaps another word that goat might benefit from?

You got to be humorless if you don’t see humor in bob spouting off on the internet, and simultaneously telling readers to not trust anyone else spouting off on the internet.
I am sure Bob is very accomplished, but he is also often very wrong so needs to be ribbed!

Dk, is that lighthouse wired with 110 or 220? :lol:

TMW - 8-19-2022 at 01:50 PM

bob a 220 circuit doesn't require a neutral (or common as you would say) if you don't know what you're talking about......

really???
no common needed?

That seems wrong, but I'm more familiar with auto and motorcycle systems. Two and three wire stators, but there is always a path to ground.

John

On a car or MC the electrical circuit is normally 12 volts which would be a hot wire (12v) and ground. On a 220v circuit for a dryer for example it is two hot wires. 110v of one phase and 110v of the other phase thus 220v. No common needed. A ground is needed to ground the case or frame or whatever so you don't get electrocuted.

Don Pisto - 8-19-2022 at 01:54 PM

I can't believe you guys are still arguing about this :lol:

btw this willard fellow is absolutely correct on all counts.

mtgoat666 - 8-19-2022 at 01:57 PM

Quote: Originally posted by TMW

bob a 220 circuit doesn't require a neutral (or common as you would say) if you don't know what you're talking about......

really???
no common needed?

That seems wrong, but I'm more familiar with auto and motorcycle systems. Two and three wire stators, but there is always a path to ground.

John

No common??

3-hole 220 outlets have 2 hot wires, 1 common wire, and recommend powered device to be grounded separately.
4-hole 220 outlets have 2 hot wires, 1 common wire, 1 ground wire.

[Edited on 8-19-2022 by mtgoat666]

Don Pisto - 8-19-2022 at 02:07 PM

like has already been said here the only time a 220 circuit needs a neutral is if a 110 volt circuit is needed......you guys ever hear of "google"?

John Harper - 8-19-2022 at 05:22 PM

Quote: Originally posted by TMW

bob a 220 circuit doesn't require a neutral (or common as you would say) if you don't know what you're talking about......

really???
no common needed?

That seems wrong, but I'm more familiar with auto and motorcycle systems. Two and three wire stators, but there is always a path to ground.

John

Interesting, I've changed out the receptacles and switches, but never really delved in to 110/220 systems. I'm an auto and moto wrench. I'll have to do some research just for some new knowledge. It can't be that complicated. Probably less so than wiring two switches for lights.

One issue that may come up is whether the panels in our townhouse development can be modified to charge electric vehicles. My neighbor has a Tesla but charges it at his work. Since he's a renter, I haven't asked him about upgrading the electrical. Perhaps our homes can't support the load required for an EV. My flat garage roof is oriented exactly north to south, but I do not think the HOA has approved solar panels, or I could produce a chitload of electricity.

John

RFClark - 8-19-2022 at 05:35 PM

John,

Non-Tesla car chargers come in 3 levels currently.

Level 1 is 120VAC 15A draw

Level 2 is 220VAC up to about 50A

Level 3 is not going to happen in BCS soon as it would black out Cabo!

Teslas have destination chargers which are similar to Level 2 chargers.

There are adaptors to allow Teslas to use level 2 chargers.

I don’t know if Tesla owners get a level 1 charger with their car. I have heard not any longer.

Some cars allow you to adjust the charge current in software in the car setup menu.

We have ours set to draw a KW of excess solar.

[Edited on 8-20-2022 by RFClark]

[Edited on 8-20-2022 by RFClark]

John Harper - 8-19-2022 at 06:32 PM

Personally, I'm not looking at an EV, but the electric demands are something to at least be aware of. Thanks for the information.

John

JZ - 8-19-2022 at 07:54 PM

We've stayed at Bob and Susan's place. It's very cool. We anchored our boat right off the beach in front of the light house.

Did some runs deeper into the bay for dinner and drinks.

Susan is pretty sexy.

[Edited on 8-20-2022 by JZ]

LancairDriver - 8-19-2022 at 09:02 PM

My Tesla came standard with the 115vac power cord which is very slow but for anyone who can leave it connected all night it works OK. I bought Tesla’s 240vac power cord for about $500 two years ago. On my garage 250vac circuit it charges at about 40 amps which is about 38 to 40 miles of charge per hour of charging at that rate. Teslas super chargers are much faster but they cost a lot more if you want the faster charge. Tesla also provides an adaptor to use on the other EV style charging stations.My home power costs 6.9 cents/kWh with my reduction for solar installation. The car battery is 62kwh which is about 250 to 300 miles. With present fuel prices EV’s are looking pretty good. It remains to be seen what the huge flood of EV’s on the road what will happen on the freeways when there is a power failure? Lots of stranded cars blocking traffic.

SFandH - 8-20-2022 at 08:45 AM

My Tesla came standard with.......

Oh good, an EV owner, I don't know any.

1. If broken down, can your car be towed or does it need to be carried? Does that vary between different manufacturers?

2. I understand Teslas don't come with spare tires. Is there someplace to carry one if you wanted to, besides the roof and interior? Is changing a tire any different than a gas vehicle?

3. Is there a problem if you have to wait in a 3-hour borderline that's creeping along? I suppose you would need to turn off the A/C eventually.

4. Does the car slowly discharge just sitting, not being used?

Off Topic lite?

AKgringo - 8-20-2022 at 09:28 AM

You never know which post will get legs and run for page after page. The O.P. never asked for any advice, he just wanted to let others know about an unsatisfactory experience with a supplier he used.

Here we are, four pages later getting an education on 220v circuits!

So how many solar panels will the O.P. need to install on his RV to power a 220v outlet?

[Edited on 8-20-2022 by AKgringo]

SFandH - 8-20-2022 at 09:36 AM

So how many solar panels will the O.P. need to install on his RV to power a 220v outlet?

[Edited on 8-20-2022 by AKgringo]

It depends upon whether or not they are using the dishwasher, clothes dryer, toaster, and vacuum cleaner in the RV at the same time.

pacificobob - 8-20-2022 at 09:46 AM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho

Quote: Originally posted by JZ

Susan is pretty sexy.

Such a charmer

LancairDriver - 8-20-2022 at 10:15 AM

My Tesla came standard with.......

Oh good, an EV owner, I don't know any.

1. If broken down, can your car be towed or does it need to be carried? Does that vary between different manufacturers?

Tesla states it must be towed. However, some owners report towing Teslas with no problem. Not being familiar with other manufacturers I would think the battery re-generation caused by the electric motors
pumping power unregulated back into the battery could cause problems with the electronics which is what Tesla is concerned with.

2. I understand Teslas don't come with spare tires. Is there someplace to carry one if you wanted to, besides the roof and interior? Is changing a tire any different than a gas vehicle?

The tires are small enough to place in the trunk or possibly in the hood cover.

3. Is there a problem if you have to wait in a 3-hour borderline that's creeping along? I suppose you would need to turn off the A/C eventually.

Short answer, yes. And if you run down the battery in those conditions you have a problem. There have been Teslas seen arriving at charging stations on a flat bed tow vehicle.

4. Does the car slowly discharge just sitting, not being used?

There are some parasitic current draws that could run the battery down eventually.

[Edited on 8-20-2022 by LancairDriver]

SFandH - 8-20-2022 at 10:17 AM

Electric and hybrid cars can be towed off the road same as gas cars.

Are you sure about that? A google search says otherwise but there is some mixed info? That's why I asked.

Many links say an EV must be trailered, not towed. This is copied from the Tesla Model 3 Owner's Manual (I didn't add the "all caps"):

"NEVER TRANSPORT YOUR VEHICLE WITH THE TIRES IN A POSITION WHERE THEY CAN SPIN. DOING SO CAN LEAD TO SIGNIFICANT DAMAGE AND OVERHEATING. IN RARE CASES EXTREME OVERHEATING MAY CAUSE THE SURROUNDING COMPONENTS TO IGNITE."

https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/model3/en_jo/GUID-FA9E3DC...

AKgringo - 8-20-2022 at 10:21 AM

Electric and hybrid cars can be towed off the road same as gas cars.

While doing a Baja run last year, I had a house sitter taking care of things. His car was a P.O.S. Ford hybrid that was only produced for a couple of years.

I won't go into the multiple failures he had with that car, but it had to be towed with all four wheels off the ground!

[Edited on 8-20-2022 by AKgringo]

SFandH - 8-20-2022 at 10:31 AM

My Tesla came standard with.......

[Edited on 8-20-2022 by LancairDriver]

Thanks for the reply.

I just bought a 2023 gas SUV. I considered an EV but these concerns stopped me (not to mention the charging issue) since I'm in Baja for months at a time.

"They ain't soup yet." For Baja.

LancairDriver - 8-20-2022 at 10:57 AM

Here’s another EV consideration.

https://www.unitedvoice.com/firefighters-share-concerns-over...

mtgoat666 - 8-20-2022 at 11:10 AM

I won't go into the multiple failures he had with that car, but it had to be towed with all four wheels off the ground!

[Edited on 8-20-2022 by AKgringo]

Nothing wrong with that. Rollback tow trucks are common. And if I were having any of my vehicles towed, I would prefer they be towed on a rollback.

And most AWD vehicles cannot be towed w/o rollback (or disconnecting drive shafts)

[Edited on 8-20-2022 by mtgoat666]

RFClark - 8-20-2022 at 11:35 AM

SF&H

Towed off the road means out of traffic to the shoulder. That said consider an EV or hybrid coasting down hill. If so equipped the regenerative braking maintains a constant speed (speed control engaged) by charging the battery. About 50% of the energy used going up hill is recovered. No damage is done to the electrical or mechanical systems. The battery will not overcharge as the car automatically switches to conventional friction braking when the battery is full.

We’ve usually lived at the top of a large hill to take advantage of this feature..

[Edited on 8-20-2022 by RFClark]

SFandH - 8-20-2022 at 12:10 PM

SF&H

Towed off the road means out of traffic to the shoulder. That said consider an EV or hybrid coasting down hill. If so equipped the regenerative braking maintains a constant speed (speed control engaged) by charging the battery. About 50% of the energy used going up hill is recovered. No damage is done to the electrical or mechanical systems. The battery will not overcharge as the car automatically switches to conventional friction braking when the battery is full.

We’ve usually lived at the top of a large hill to take advantage of this feature..

[Edited on 8-20-2022 by RFClark]

In this case, by towing I mean with 2 or 4 of the wheels on the ground, spinning. By trailering I mean on a flatbed trailer, being carried, no wheels spinning.

Tesla says.

"NEVER TRANSPORT YOUR VEHICLE WITH THE TIRES IN A POSITION WHERE THEY CAN SPIN. DOING SO CAN LEAD TO SIGNIFICANT DAMAGE AND OVERHEATING. IN RARE CASES EXTREME OVERHEATING MAY CAUSE THE SURROUNDING COMPONENTS TO IGNITE."

https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/model3/en_jo/GUID-FA9E3DC...

So that's an issue. It eliminates a dead/broken Tesla (and all EVs?) from being towed with a standard tow truck in the standard fashion with 2 wheels on the ground.

Don't forget I'm thinking a Baja breakdown.

[Edited on 8-20-2022 by SFandH]

PaulW - 8-20-2022 at 01:28 PM

So if a person was driving south in an EV in Baja and got to the rock fall area on Hwy5 and managed to hit a large stone and the tire was sliced open. No cell service light or no traffic. Nearest flatbed or roll back is in San Felipe some 60 -70 miles away.
Not a good situation.
Maybe an EV is not so practical in Baja unless you stay in town?

RFClark - 8-20-2022 at 02:13 PM

SF&H,

My manual for the 2022 Kia Niro PHEV says flat towing with the car in neutral at 10mph or less for one mile or less. Front wheel dolly not a problem for any distance.

mtgoat666 - 8-20-2022 at 03:28 PM

Quote: Originally posted by PaulW

So if a person was driving south in an EV in Baja and got to the rock fall area on Hwy5 and managed to hit a large stone and the tire was sliced open. No cell service light or no traffic. Nearest flatbed or roll back is in San Felipe some 60 -70 miles away.
Not a good situation.
Maybe an EV is not so practical in Baja unless you stay in town?

I would not worry about availability of a rollback truck for the very rare times you need a tow due to flat tire.
If you are worried about flat tires, carry a spare tire.

Needing tow is pretty rare. I haven’t needed a tow in 30 years :light:

SFandH - 8-20-2022 at 04:39 PM

I'm sensitive to the issue because I've hired tow trucks 3 times in Baja. And no, I'm not driving cheap beaters. Full-size Chevy and Ford V-8 1/2 ton pickups. Two transmission failures and an ignition problem.

I'm also sensitive to the spare tire issue. I've lost track of how many flats I've had.

[Edited on 8-20-2022 by SFandH]

RFClark - 8-20-2022 at 04:51 PM

SF&H,

We have always carried a satellite text device and now usually haul our StarLink system with us. I keep threatening to do a live feed from Coco’s Corner.

John Harper - 8-20-2022 at 05:03 PM

I saw my very first Rivian on the road yesterday, and my second Ford Maverick this morning. I find it odd that there is virtually no marketing of the Ford Maverick. Even the radio ads for my local Ford dealer do not mention it. Very strange for a new product. It's actually pretty good looking. The Rivian, well, it probably grows on you. Kinda clunky looking.

A satellite communicator seems almost a no brainer today, I realized I probably should use one since I'm often many miles from help and traveling alone.

Most tire problems seem to be nails, screws, etc. A tire plug kit is likely to work in all but extraordinary situations. At least in my experience. Add a compressor, and don't fret about a spare tire.

John

[Edited on 8-21-2022 by John Harper]

SFandH - 8-20-2022 at 05:06 PM

Yeah, well, I'm a low-tech guy. I bought my first cell phone a couple of months ago only because of a bank's new website requirement to authenticate with a code sent in a text message. The phone is off with no service now. I think I'll switch banks.

John Harper - 8-20-2022 at 05:08 PM

Yeah, well, I'm a low-tech guy. I bought my first cell phone a couple of months ago only because of a bank's new website requirement to authenticate with a code sent in a text message. The phone is off with no service now. I think I'll switch banks.

You can always have the code sent to your pager.

John

SFandH - 8-20-2022 at 05:15 PM

:lol:

SFandH - 8-20-2022 at 05:19 PM

Tune in, turn on, drop out.

SFandH - 8-20-2022 at 05:23 PM

I find it odd that there is virtually no marketing of the Ford Maverick.

There could be supply problems. New car dealers seem to have really low inventories. I just experienced that.

mtgoat666 - 8-20-2022 at 05:29 PM

Just stick to tellers. Why you doing e banking?

John Harper - 8-20-2022 at 05:29 PM

I find it odd that there is virtually no marketing of the Ford Maverick.

There could be supply problems. New car dealers seem to have really low inventories. I just experienced that.

Yes, Ford has the new Ranger, the Mustang Mach E, and the Maverick. With the supply chain issues still ongoing, maybe they already have problems filling orders.

John

John Harper - 8-20-2022 at 05:34 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666