BajaNomad - Container Home Construction Rancho Nuevo BCS

Goat,

We bought the 2 - 20’ containers from a guy in San Pedro south of La Paz. We bought the White 40’ container from a guy who lives by the 5th break at Scorpion Bay and the Red 40’ From a company in Ensenada a couple of weeks ago.

Which company did you use in Ensenada? We have been trying to locate some single use hi cubes but they seem very scarce or ridiculously expensive. Thanks

4x4abc - 9-7-2022 at 11:20 AM

how expensive are containers?

Container source

RFClark - 9-7-2022 at 11:25 AM

Nbentley1,

These are the only people we could find. The lady speaks english and is a great communicator. Delivery was prompt. The container was perfect. We paid $10,692US delivered.

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[Edited on 9-7-2022 by RFClark]

nbentley1 - 9-7-2022 at 01:41 PM

Thanks you, its the same folks we have been working with. hopefully as supply chains open up there inventory will increase. Appreciate the response

RFClark - 9-7-2022 at 02:30 PM

They’re the only game in town right now!

lewmt - 9-8-2022 at 07:53 AM

Lots of cutting/welding/fabricating....fun! Are you putting any preventative rust abatement on the metal? If so what are you using? Using protable welder/generator to get all of the welding done or are you able to utilize the solar array for that?

RFClark - 9-8-2022 at 09:16 AM

lewmt,

Yes, concrete the old Mexican way in the front and cutting and welding in the back.

We’ve been cutting with abrasive discs, I brought down a small plasma cutter. We’ll try it out after the storm. The welder runs off the 220V solar just fine works way better than with the generator. We put several coats of 7 year roof coating on the containers. The new steel is
Primed and painted as well if it’s exposed. The house will have a full metal roof on it with insulation between the containers and the roof.

The vertical walls will have insulation and cement board on them when were done with doors and windows.

Everyone is welcome to stop by and visit. We’re there working most days.

Solar Panel Mount

RFClark - 9-8-2022 at 09:54 AM

Solar panel mount for 6 - 540W panels

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mtgoat666 - 9-8-2022 at 10:18 AM

Quote: Originally posted by nbentley1

Which company did you use in Ensenada? We have been trying to locate some single use hi cubes but they seem very scarce or ridiculously expensive. Thanks

the supply of intermodals really disappeared during covid shipping delays. i have heard that supply of intermodals is soon to be in excess in north america, so prices are expected to drop.

if you want a 20 ft, consider getting from socal and shipping south on a rollback truck or conventional flat trailer.

RFClark - 9-8-2022 at 10:36 AM

Goat,

There is a customs issue bringing containers across the border for permanent import. The cost to truck either a 20’ or 40’ south from TJ or Ensenada to Todos Santos is $2K - $2.2K currently.

We have all of ours for this house in place.

nbentley1 - 9-8-2022 at 10:38 AM

Quote: Originally posted by nbentley1

Which company did you use in Ensenada? We have been trying to locate some single use hi cubes but they seem very scarce or ridiculously expensive. Thanks

Our build will need 5 x 40' high cubes. The current one we are working on came from the same supplier and they were very easy to work with. Phase 2 when we need the boxes in better shaper will be next year so hopefully the supply and cost has returned to pre pandemic levels.

RFClark - 9-8-2022 at 10:51 AM

The 40’ Hi Cubes have been expensive for over a year. I think part of the issue is 53’ containers are replacing 40’ in shipping applications. Most of the one trip 40’s are being shipped for building and storage applications so they are selling at a higher price.

charliemanson - 9-9-2022 at 07:14 PM

Not sure I get the point of that type of construction. Please enlighten us on why that over regular, proven block.
Some guy put one up near us and hasn't sold it in 3 years and with window it looks like a magnifying glass cooking every thing in site inside.

With block costs now up 25% or so we still get mid grade homes built for under $100sq/meter! Not sq foot.

Just interested in why to choose that route, Security? Rancho Nuevo is a locked up tight gringo community so that cant be it.

thanks for your insite

RFClark - 9-9-2022 at 07:39 PM

CM,

If you notice the front part on the ground is traditional block.

Why steel containers for the 2 story part? I wanted to build a container home and in my opinion they are stronger in Earthquakes and hurricanes.

The garage under the house is 20’ X 24’ with no posts. There is no problem with water blowing through the block walls in high winds (hurricanes). We think that the cost per sq ft will be quite a bit under $100/sq ft.

The internal load bearing walls are 4” rather than 8” thick and the non-load bearing walls are 3” thick so more usable space inside as well.

The other major issue is climate control. Concrete bock walls are 8”thick and when filled have a large thermal mass. The usual practice is to put a couple of inches of foam on the inside that gives you a 10+“ thick wall. With steel containers the walls are thin but block air and water completely. They can be painted with reflective paint, covered with reflective material over insulation and sill have foam insulation on the inside while only being 3” thick. That type of wall also has a low thermal mass, low air leakage and is waterproof.

Controlling air and moisture leakage are very important as they use a lot of your AC capacity. Good double pane windows are important as well.

But mostly we’re building it because the wife and I think it’s a neat idea!

[Edited on 9-10-2022 by RFClark]

Santiago - 9-10-2022 at 07:51 AM

RF: thanks for posting this, keep them coming. Love the uppers at right angles to the lowers. There's a few of these single units for rent as Air BNB units in the wine valley on the side of a steep hill, the up-slope sits on the ground, the down slope end has posts holding it up.
How do you run electrical and plumbing stacks? Do you need headers or lintels when you cut openings for windows and doors or is it self-supporting?

mtgoat666 - 9-10-2022 at 08:10 AM

Why steel containers for the 2 story part? I wanted to build a container home and in my opinion they are stronger in Earthquakes and hurricanes.

How are the containers structurally attached to foundation?

Are containers only structurally attached to each other at corners?

I like how stick built wood frame flexes with EQ motions.

I wonder how containers attached at only corners flex during EQ motion?

People say container homes are EQ safe, but I wonder how they actually move in EQs and if they are prone to odd deformation due to EQ motion with limited corner connections…. You might be safe in EQ relative to improperly engineered masonry building, but your home might have sheared structural connections due to EQ.

Did a structural engineer do seismic for your design?

RFClark - 9-10-2022 at 08:12 AM

Santiago,

We will run both the plumbing and electrical in the walls, floors and external chases.

Plumbing is minimal as we’ll have a hot water (propane) at each end. The front has traditional orange tube in the concrete. Most of the rest is US pre-wired metal flex. The little critters don’t eat it! Water will be copper tube interior and pvc exterior.

pacificobob - 9-10-2022 at 08:15 AM

While I'm a big fan of reusing and recycling. I also like architectural esthetics.
Steel boxes look like, well, Steel boxes. Imo.

RFClark - 9-10-2022 at 08:28 AM

Goat,

I like wood and plywood stick too! That said so do the Taiwanese Termites here! They even eat plywood.

I'll post foundation pictures. The 20’s are each set on 3’ X 9’ x 4’ steel reenforced bases there’s a 12” X 1/2” steel plate under each corner attached to the steel in the base by a 5/8” rebar cage. Additionally those corners are each anchored to the base by a 1/4” plate channel with 2 - Simpson 1/2” X 6” Titan concrete screws.

The containers are connected by multiple steel square tube also the uppers are attached to the concrete deck and the foundation.

I was going for at least 40psf wind and 20psf uplift. Earthquakes! Murphy can always outbid your worst nightmares!

It will be the last house standing in RN no matter what happens.

RFClark - 9-10-2022 at 08:34 AM

PB,

The exterior is to be covered with Durock and smooth cement. It will look just like a big cement box! Painted two shades of gray. It’s called Industrial Modern. It will have some architectural features to break up the lines and won’t have ugly solar panels visible on the roof.

Foundation and concept detail

RFClark - 9-10-2022 at 08:43 AM

The roof on ours is flatter and will have a parapet around it.

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This weeks progress in spite of Kay

RFClark - 9-10-2022 at 06:46 PM

This week we accomplished a lot in spite of Kay.

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The kitchen/dinning room is ready for the bond beam under the roof/deck

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Here’s a picture of how the containers are attached to the foundation for Goat.

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The white metal next to the solar panels is a walkway covering the 4’ between the containers. It will be filled with concrete. The solar panels move while the roof is installed.

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1st roof panel of painted galvanized steel on a steel frame attached to the top of container.

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More soon!

advrider - 9-10-2022 at 07:07 PM

Looks solid to me and I like the look.

mtgoat666 - 9-10-2022 at 07:53 PM

Here’s a picture of how the containers are attached to the foundation for Goat.

Those 2 little bolts per corner (with angle racks?) look like they will shear off in first big earthquake.

Btw, they sell a pins that can be used to connect using the corner castings - could probably modify one to be a ground anchor.
You can also get roof kits that attach to the corner castings…

RFClark - 9-10-2022 at 08:03 PM

Goat those bolts in the plates are 1/2” X 6” Titan concrete screws rated at 2,000lbs shear each they are in addition to the 1/2” 12” X 12” steel plate and cage the container is welded to. There are 8 of each. The containers are attached to the foundation in other places too. Ultimately we will pour a concrete floor in the garage that the 2 - 20’ containers will sit on.

Bob and Susan - 9-11-2022 at 06:45 AM

one thing i would ALWAYS wonder is what was in those containers when they arrived from china

i wonder if the serial number on the container could be a clue?

RFClark - 9-11-2022 at 08:28 AM

B & S,

The 2 upper containers are one trip containers. That means they were built primarily to sell for homes or storage. They usually contain autos on their one trip over. Both are very clean on the inside.

JDCanuck - 9-11-2022 at 08:28 AM

Thats an extremely ambitious project RFClark, have to admire your willingness to strike out in untested territory. It will really be something to see it when completed. Way beyond my comfort zone.

RFClark - 9-11-2022 at 08:58 AM

This is the 4th home we’ve built from scratch. All 4 have been different. That said there are things that you learn that help you in future projects.

This is easer in some respects because there are skilled tradespeople in this area due to all the construction. We have a good crew. Overall costs can be lower here. If you choose the correct materials.

Containers have strengths and weaknesses as do all types of construction. Mostly they need to be protected from rusting. If protected they will last decades. Goat asked about attachment to the foundation so I went back and reviewed the technical information. Containers are able to withstand in excess of 130mph winds and with proper foundations 150mph. Seems good for Cabo.

Bob and Susan - 9-11-2022 at 09:30 AM

look what happened in florida and the keys with 150mph winds...

nothing survives...
and you have them stacked

as for a one trip container ... it will last 20 years
but all steel rusts

surfhat - 9-11-2022 at 10:00 AM

Rust proofing can work wonders. As long as the rust proofing lasts. haha

There are some very creative uses being made of these containers, google them.

Good on RF for your home to be.

With the weight and welding, these are not going anywhere.

Once insulated, maybe blown foam?, and some elastomeric roof coating to reflect heat, these containers should provide a lifetime of reliability in all weather conditions.

I built a tridy-foam ? structure on the east cape in the 90's because it was one of few buildings to survive Hurricane Andrew in south Florida. That, along with the insulation properties of the foam core appeared to be better than the usual block technology at the time.

We now have insulated concrete blocks that accomplish close to the same thing as the foam panels. Are these foam panels still being used? I liked the 8" to 10" thick walls once the stucco was pumped on, inside and out.

Kudos RF. We will all look forward to the finished product. You can't have enough insulation down there, however you choose to address it.

RFClark - 9-11-2022 at 03:08 PM

B&S,

Prior to the 1st Gulf War Iraq was concerned about the night vision capabilities of the US forces. They ran tests on their Russian equipment and discovered that burning oil smoke did blind it. During the war they burned lots of oil and sure enough their equipment was blind. That said we all know how that turned out.

The moral is that you shouldn’t judge other people’s skills and equipment by your skills and equipment!

All our exterior steel is coated and covered! I won’t last 20 years! The 130mph rating is for a 40’ high Cube sitting on the ground attached to nothing. Attached to a foundation and stacked 4 high the rating is 150mph or more!

These plates are rated for 4 high stacking.

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I didn't think that they were strong enough.

We built these. The plate is 1/2” steel. The cage is 5/8” rebar. There are 8 of them. They’re 24” long. The containers are welded to them. They’re are other additional attach points now.
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RFClark - 9-24-2022 at 07:16 PM

This weeks picture. Things are moving along. The upper deck will have a removable Roman shade. The vertical poles need about 18” cut off them to meet the 8M hight limit. The welder is finishing the frame for an architectural feature (Parapet) to complete the edge of the roof More soon.

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advrider - 9-24-2022 at 08:28 PM

I think you have gone above and beyond what is needed for sure. I'm just hoping you have an open house party, I'll bring wine, beer or whatever works!

monoloco - 9-24-2022 at 10:15 PM

It seems to me like the cost of construction wold end up being more than using standard construction methods by the time you insulate and cover the interior and exterior walls, plus using containers really introduces a lot of design constraints.

John Harper - 9-25-2022 at 09:47 AM

Quote: Originally posted by monoloco

It seems to me like the cost of construction wold end up being more than using standard construction methods by the time you insulate and cover the interior and exterior walls, plus using containers really introduces a lot of design constraints.

I think he's already addressed those issues in previous posts.

Looks like a lot of progress, looking forward to more construction as the project develops. Nice work, RF!!!

John

RFClark - 9-25-2022 at 12:18 PM

Here’s a picture of the 240VAC port in the garage. There’s a level 2 car charger plug and a plug for welding and cutting.

There was an earlier discussion elsewhere about 240 vs 120 vac efficiency. The same welder draws 49A at 120V and only draws 22A at 240V. That’s about 600W less.

I just ordered the 2nd inverter so we’ll be up to 6,500KW in panels (12X540) and 12KW of inverters with 10KW in batteries.

Since time is money even in Mexico, I think this house will cost less than a block house. It will be finished faster and with steel changes in design are easer. Compared to wood construction the waste is far less.

Block houses using poured roofs are very complicated vs container roofs as currently poured roofs use lots of foam to insulate and reduce the weight of the roof. (pictures soon). They need to be finished on the underside just like a container does.

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Bob and Susan - 9-25-2022 at 12:49 PM

no no no no

"The same welder draws 49A at 120V and only draws 22A at 240V. That’s about 600W less."

it draws the SAME amount of current but on 2 lines
it DOES NOT save you money

RFClark - 9-25-2022 at 01:36 PM

B&S

W=AXV

49X120= 5,880W

22X240= 5,280W

That’s 600W less!

You are correct, since the electricity is free the cost is the same!

[Edited on 9-25-2022 by RFClark]

Bob and Susan - 9-25-2022 at 03:08 PM

oh god...that is NOT how it works...

220v you use less heat

you make the same electricty as 110v

if you pay for electricty you pay the same

220v does not save electricty or money....
it runs electric stuff cooler

thats it

SFandH - 9-25-2022 at 03:23 PM

B&S

W=AXV

49X120= 5,880W

22X240= 5,280W

That’s 600W less!

[Edited on 9-25-2022 by RFClark]

It's interesting that it takes fewer watts (less power) at a higher voltage. I wonder why. Wire diameter?

willardguy - 9-25-2022 at 03:58 PM

:lol:

Bob the "armchair internet electricians" as he calls us.....now maybe he can tell us where to buy that $5.31 propane!

Salsa - 9-25-2022 at 04:52 PM

Don't worry
I read it on the internet, so it must be true !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don

Bob and Susan - 9-25-2022 at 05:28 PM

Quote: Originally posted by willardguy

Bob ...now maybe he can tell us where to buy that $5.31 propane!

30kg propane tank is 8 gallons
850 pesos a tank
106 pesos a gallon
20 pesos to the dollar
$5.31 usa to the gallon

it is what it is

JDCanuck - 9-25-2022 at 05:51 PM

That makes sense..we pay a lot more per litre in smaller volumes too.
Makes sense for us to oversize the tank and refill less often. Cost difference between installed 250gal and 500gal is minimal, but delivered propane costs are much lower on the 500 gal per litre.
I see global pricing on propane has been dropping fast lately tho, maybe it's substantially cheaper than last time you refilled?

[Edited on 9-26-2022 by JDCanuck]

mtgoat666 - 9-25-2022 at 06:42 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bob and Susan

Quote: Originally posted by willardguy

Bob ...now maybe he can tell us where to buy that $5.31 propane!

30kg propane tank is 8 gallons
850 pesos a tank
106 pesos a gallon
20 pesos to the dollar
$5.31 usa to the gallon

it is what it is

Do they measure sale in SI units, using a calibrated machine?

Or are they selling using Pemex units, uncalibrated measurements?

RFClark - 9-25-2022 at 07:15 PM

I screwed up on the calculations. Those are DC amps. The inverter reads out in KVAs too. I'll re do the test and get the right numbers. I don’t think Bob can deal with KVAs though. The difference is I2R losses 1/4 the losses for 240VAC.

I’m glad we aren’t talking 3 phase. I wouldn’t want to try and explain why you can get 3 120VAC legs off of just 3 wires and a neutral! (But why doesn’t the neutral explode, you're using it with 3 hot wires?) It’s not Tom’s DC power distribution!

RFClark - 9-25-2022 at 07:20 PM

L,

There’s a lot of stuff in Mexican LPG! I had to change the gage gasket on our big 300Gal tank and I pumped at least 5 gal of really nasty black sulfur water out of the tank!

mtgoat666 - 9-25-2022 at 07:44 PM

I screwed up on the calculations.

What other calculation have you screwed up building your new house?
Hire a professional!

[Edited on 9-26-2022 by mtgoat666]

RFClark - 9-26-2022 at 03:32 AM

Goat,

Probably lots! That’s why you over-design and have lots of alternate stress pathways! Remember Rosie Scenario is Murphy's sister.

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Old School Concrete

RFClark - 9-28-2022 at 02:56 PM

For those too young to have done concrete w/o a pump. Yes, I think 3/4 rock is better than sand!

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John Harper - 9-28-2022 at 03:55 PM

Nice work, good to see some good old "Manuel" labor. Looks like it's progressing well now you go the boxes set.

Is that another container in the background of the last pic? For supplies and tools?

John

RFClark - 9-28-2022 at 04:03 PM

John,

It was about 44 sacks of concrete and a lot of steel. The upper 2 - 40’ containers are 800 sq ft of bedrooms and living space. The concrete today is the roof for the downstairs and the deck for the upstairs. More soon, we still have to pour the roof deck and the roof walkway.

AKgringo - 9-28-2022 at 04:19 PM

Quote: Originally posted by John Harper

Is that another container in the background of the last pic? For supplies and tools?

Maybe it is going to be a guest room?

SFandH - 9-28-2022 at 04:27 PM

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo

Quote: Originally posted by John Harper

Is that another container in the background of the last pic? For supplies and tools?

Maybe it is going to be a guest room?

Airbnb.

That's quite a project. More power to ya. Way beyond my capabilities to manage. But I'm lazy. :cool:

RFClark - 9-28-2022 at 04:31 PM

SH&H,

Me too! Hire good people and see that they have what they need to get the job done! I end up being the gopher! It’s an easy retirement job!

John Harper - 9-28-2022 at 04:42 PM

John,

It was about 44 sacks of concrete and a lot of steel. The upper 2 - 40’ containers are 800 sq ft of bedrooms and living space. The concrete today is the roof for the downstairs and the deck for the upstairs. More soon, we still have to pour the roof deck and the roof walkway.

That's what I thought, a deck over the concrete after?

At least your biggest burden (wallet) is getting lighter day by day.

It's great to have a project. Good plan, keep them supplied, fed, watered, paid, and working, you do all the BS running around that wastes production time.

John

[Edited on 9-28-2022 by John Harper]

RFClark - 9-28-2022 at 04:48 PM

John,

This deck/roof gets a smooth finish tomorrow. Later in the week we pour the 12’X 12’ viewing deck on top of the 2nd level and a 4’ walkway that forms the roof for the 4’ between the 2 40’ containers.

surabi - 9-28-2022 at 05:51 PM

John,

It was about 44 sacks of concrete...

There is no such thing as a sack of concrete. They are sacks of cement. Concrete is what you get when you mix cement, sand, gravel and water.

And no, substituting rock for sand in the mix is not better. Sand, cement, and water are what create the chemical reaction that makes the concrete. There is no chemical interaction with the gravel, it is just there for strength. Cutting back on the sand will make your mix too cement-rich, which makes it weaker, not stronger.

AKgringo - 9-28-2022 at 06:18 PM

Actually, you can buy sacks of pre-mixed cement (just add water) but it would be very expensive for a pour that size.

surabi - 9-28-2022 at 06:35 PM

Pre-mixed cement is premixed cement. That isn't the same thing as concrete. Concrete is the material formed by mixing cement, sand, water and gravel.

[Edited on 9-29-2022 by surabi]

RFClark - 9-28-2022 at 06:36 PM

Surbi,

Sorry, 44 sacks of cement and google it. For this pour cement, gravel, sand and water are stronger. That said the argument about cement with rock vs pump grout has gone on forever. You can't get chopped fiber in your mix locally here so for me there’s no choice.

surabi - 9-28-2022 at 06:49 PM

Surbi,

Sorry, 44 sacks of cement and google it. For this pour cement, gravel, sand and water are stronger. That said the argument about cement with rock vs pump grout has gone on forever. You can't get chopped fiber in your mix locally here so for me there’s no choice.

You didn't understand what I was saying. Of course you need gravel or some equivalent to make concrete. I was saying you can't change the recommended proportion of sand in a mix and substitute it with gravel, thinking that will make it stronger. The sand to cement ratio needs to be followed. How much gravel you throw into that mix is up to you. The gravel isn't part of the chemical interaction involved in mixing cement. It is just bound together by the cement mix.

What makes your concrete pour strong is keeping it damp as long as possible. It needs to be hosed down several times a day for days.

mtgoat666 - 9-28-2022 at 08:36 PM

John,

It was about 44 sacks of concrete...

Surabi,
On this you are very wrong! Every home improvement store sells bags of concrete mix. The bags are pre-mixed cement, aggregate and additives — just add water. No one mixes their own concrete ingredients, well, except the plants that sell ready mix or concrete mix.

surabi - 9-28-2022 at 08:47 PM

John,

It was about 44 sacks of concrete...

What on earth are you talking about, "no one mixes their own concrete"??? Of course they do. What do you think RFClark's photos depict? There are piles of sand and gravel his crew is mixing. Almost every build in Mexico, aside from big commercial projects, has piles of sand, gravel and bags of cement, with workers either mixing it with shovels or using a cement mixer.

And a bag of concrete mix isn't a bag of concrete. Concrete is the word for the finished product. A "bag of concrete" would be hard as a rock, not powdered ingredients you add water to.

Calling a bag if mix "concrete" is like calling a cup of flour, some eggs and some milk on the counter a cake.

[Edited on 9-29-2022 by surabi]

mtgoat666 - 9-28-2022 at 08:51 PM

Actually, when you buy ready mix and concrete mix, you can get an almost infinite variety of mix designs.
And, the easiest way to cure concrete often is not keeping it wet with a hose — much easier to apply curing compound, a sealant sprayed over the surface to retard evaporation/moisture loss.
In Baja, probably an important thing is to avoid concrete pours in hot weather. You need to add retarders if temp is over about 85 F, do pours at nights when air is cooler. if I were pouring in baja, I would just skip summer, and have work done in winter.

In my work we do concrete occasionally, our summer pours in the desert often start at 3 AM to get it in place before truck is hot or day is hot. And we sometimes have our ready mix made with ice plus water, as the raw ingredients in stock at plants are often quite warm to begin with in the summer- hard to mix concrete and meet temp spec when your raw materials are all starting out at temps over 80 F.

mtgoat666 - 9-28-2022 at 08:58 PM

John,

It was about 44 sacks of concrete...

What on earth are you talking about, "no one mixes their own concrete"??? Of course they do. Almost every build in Mexico, aside from big commercial projects, has piles of sand, gravel and bags of cement, with workers either mixing it with shovels or using a cement mixer.

And a bag of concrete mix isn't a bag of concrete. Concrete is the word for the finished product. A "bag of concrete" would be hard as a rock, not something you add water to.

Two comments:
I do concrete work occasionally, would never allow on site mixing of raw ingredien…. Mexican concrete made on site by hand mixing ingredients is usually pretty poor quality.

And the bags of concrete mix are just that, concrete mix. So perhaps I agree with your last irrelevant point!

surabi - 9-28-2022 at 09:23 PM

" I do concrete work occasionally, would never allow on site mixing of raw ingredien…. Mexican concrete made on site by hand mixing ingredients is usually pretty poor quality."

It's only poor quality if they don't mix it right, use beach sand, or don't use the correct ratios of materials. Regardless, that is how almost all house construction is done in Mexico, and millions of Mexican laborers would be out of work if it wasn't. It's also done like that in other places all over the world. And plenty of it has been standing for a hundred years, and more. Are you under the impression that there were ready-mix cement pumper trucks and bags of concrete mix available at building supply stores 100 years ago?

[Edited on 9-29-2022 by surabi]

[Edited on 9-29-2022 by surabi]

[Edited on 9-29-2022 by surabi]

JDCanuck - 9-29-2022 at 06:34 AM

I wondered why I saw so many cement blocks apparently dissolving in the rain, and not all that old either. Perhaps it was the salt in the sand doing it? Never saw that anyplace in old cement blocks before.

mtgoat666 - 9-29-2022 at 07:20 AM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho

It's only poor quality if they don't mix it right, use beach sand, or don't use the correct ratios of materials.

Which you have to admit still happens a lot, though much less now than it did 30 years ago. Many uneducated laborers don't understand how concrete works and how important the mix is.

I have a vague theory that it has to do with the transition from adobe (which is much more forgiving than concrete).

Hand-mixing the raw ingredients on site is typically done by “eye-balling” the volumes of individual ingredients. There is little control over mix ratios, so varying batch quality. It is hit or miss whether each batch is mixed to spec.

RFClark - 9-29-2022 at 07:50 AM

Goat,

Good concrete is a ratio of ingredients. Most batch plant mix doesn’t use 3/4” rock these days because of pumping. If you use a standard 5 gal pail you get the same ratio every time. Ever watch a batch plant load a truck? The Romans mixed concrete by hand, on site 2,000 plus years ago, much of which is still standing! The elevated Metro in Mexico City that collapsed was batch plant mix! The results depend on the crew!

surabi - 9-29-2022 at 08:11 AM

No it isn't. They mix one bag of cement to a specific number of 5 gallon pails of sand. They don't "eyeball" it. It seems like you're just making things up now to try to prove you are right.

surabi - 9-29-2022 at 08:23 AM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho

I have a vague theory that it has to do with the transition from adobe (which is much more forgiving than concrete).

I think it has more to do with them doing it the way their papa did and his papa before him. They don't know anything about the actual chemistry of mixing cement.
When my house was being built, (I was my own contractor), I had to be on their case about adding water to the mix when it started to stiffen up. Anyone who knows about the chemistry involved knows you never add water or anything else to the mix after the first 10 minutes after it's been mixed and has slaked.

If it is starting to set up, it's no longer usable- you can't just add some water to make it workable. You throw the remains in a hole in the road that needs filling or something.

RFClark - 9-29-2022 at 09:04 AM

Like I said hire a good crew, get good results. We have a very good crew. They don’t trust what the local batch plant turns out. This is the fourth big complicated job and no cracks yet in any of the priors also no sand patches or dry edges. You can tell good mix by the look of it and how it sets.

This is the first time I’ve used foam blocks cast in a pour. Interesting to see it done. It uses a whole lot more steel. Basically a grid of rebar beams with wire and more rebar above the whole pour under a surface layer of concrete.

We’re pouring the upper deck and walkway with a current industrial design that home builders are starting to use. It employs parking structure technology. I’ll post pictures of the project when we do it.

[Edited on 9-29-2022 by RFClark]

[Edited on 9-29-2022 by RFClark]

Construction Progress to 10/1

RFClark - 10-1-2022 at 05:52 PM

Today we poured the upper deck and roof section between the 2 - 40’ containers and put the end panels in that fill the end space between the upper containers. We also put the 1st sheet of 3/4” plywood flooring down between the upper containers. I jumped on the plywood to see how live the 2nd floor will be. 24’ of free span and it’s the solidest floor I’ve ever seen. Yesterday I tied in the 6 - new 545W Solar Panels. The 12 panels were outputting 4KW at 15:45. Thats about 65% of the rated output.

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1st Container roof section completed

RFClark - 10-6-2022 at 08:37 PM

We should have the other side done next week. We need to move the solar panels 1st.

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JDCanuck - 10-7-2022 at 02:03 AM

How do you deal with water drainage under the corrugated roof?

RFClark - 10-7-2022 at 04:07 PM

The roof slopes to the outside and there will be a gutter along the edge. Any water that might get through the roof can drain off the top of the container to the gutter as well. The center edge of the roof will be caulked against leakage. (I hope!)

Exciting shots of the crane moving the solar panels tomorrow!

[Edited on 10-7-2022 by RFClark]

JDCanuck - 10-7-2022 at 05:33 PM