BajaNomad - Has baja changed, need a new list of places to avoid.

While bad things can happen anywhere, and certainly no one deserves to be home-invaded, mugged, or murdered, it really isn't a good idea to flaunt one's wealth where the local population has much less than you.

Upscale homes on the beach and nice newish vehicles and toys make people targets for such things. If you look like you have something worth stealing, criminals take notice. Living simply, and not looking like a rich gringo can help a lot to make you safer.

Typical blame the victim mentality. Do you tell the girl it was her fault for wearing a skirt that was too short?

Not everyone wants to live like you and drive a 20 yo junker.

[Edited on 10-17-2022 by JZ]

John Harper - 10-17-2022 at 10:40 AM

My place isn't surrounded by high walls and broken glass, looking like I have something super valuable to protect.

A can of bear spray on the nightstand (or somewhere easily accessible) might be a good idea.

John

shari - 10-17-2022 at 10:47 AM

perhaps we should mention places that ARE safer than others.
One good example of relatively crime free places is our area on the central coast in Bahia Asuncion.

Because we have a very effective security patrol or vigilancia paid by our 2 fishing cooperativas, there are patrols in vehicles 24/7 and if a strange vehicle enters town...we have a security camera at the entrance and the Vigilancia follows the strangers truck around to see what they are here for. The remote beaches are all patrolled daily so it is safe to remote camp and crime is very low here.

JZ - 10-17-2022 at 10:50 AM

Quote: Originally posted by shari

perhaps we should mention places that ARE safer than others.
One good example of relatively crime free places is our area on the central coast in Bahia Asuncion.

Because we have a very effective security patrol or vigilancia paid by our 2 fishing cooperativas, there are patrols in vehicles 24/7 and if a strange vehicle enters town...we have a security camera at the entrance and the Vigilancia follows the strangers truck around to see what they are here for. The remote beaches are all patrolled daily so it is safe to remote camp and crime is very low here.

Great to hear Shari.

surabi - 10-17-2022 at 12:24 PM

Once again, your poor reading comprehension and misrepresentation of others' comments is on full display. As lencho pointed out, my comment was regarding situational awareness, not victim blaming.

And your attitude of entitlement to treat another country like your personal playground where you can bring all your American attitudes and fancy new toys is exactly the attitude I am talking about that can lead to one being a target.

And yes, a woman who goes out and about with a skirt that barely covers her ass and her cleavage majorly hanging out is going to attract the wrong kind of attention and she is stupid if she doesn't realize this. That by no means excuses anyone assaulting her nor blames her, but intelligent people conduct themselves so as to lessen the chances of becoming a target for crime. Just as calling a taxi rather than walking alone down dark deserted streets at night is what a person who is aware of the danger they may be putting themselves in would do.

Hook - 10-17-2022 at 12:58 PM

Typical blame the victim mentality.

Or simply situational awareness.

It does suck to be a target because of our opulent lifestyle, but it's the reality.

[Edited on 10-17-2022 by lencho]

Ms. Humfreville was guilty of flaunting an opulent lifestyle? By owning an old truck?

John Harper - 10-17-2022 at 12:59 PM

Typical blame the victim mentality.

Or simply situational awareness.

It does suck to be a target because of our opulent lifestyle, but it's the reality.

Ms. Humfreville was guilty of flaunting an opulent lifestyle? By owning an old truck?

Hasn't JZ always advocated paying off crooked cops and bad guys? Voluntary victimization?

John

[Edited on 10-17-2022 by John Harper]

surabi - 10-17-2022 at 01:31 PM

Typical blame the victim mentality.

Or simply situational awareness.

It does suck to be a target because of our opulent lifestyle, but it's the reality.

[Edited on 10-17-2022 by lencho]

Ms. Humfreville was guilty of flaunting an opulent lifestyle? By owning an old truck?

Yet another comment that attributes a self-interpreted meaning to a comment that said no such thing. As I said in my original response here, bad things can happen to people completely randomly.

It was tragic what happened to that woman, and as far as I'm aware, she didn't live any opulent lifestyle that would make her a target- she was just a victim of a horrible crime perpetrated by heartless animals.

Just as a woman who is modestly dressed can be raped just like one who is scantily clad, it isn't a case of a victim being to blame, but smart people weigh risks and try to behave in a way that that will lessen their chances of attracting the wrong kind of attention, and try to avoid putting themselves in situations that could make them more noticable or vulnerable to those with ill intent.

[Edited on 10-17-2022 by surabi]

[Edited on 10-17-2022 by surabi]

bajatrailrider - 10-17-2022 at 01:58 PM

TJ is a place to avoid drive past it OK. As far as last guy with two guys break in house . Put a solid door on bedroom inside lock difficult to break down. Gives you time to greet them. Your answer is there more problems now. Just Check Calif. that should worry you.

surabi - 10-17-2022 at 02:35 PM

As an example of how people can actually be unaware of how they make themselves targets, because they have never considered how they might be perceived by others, especially in another culture-

I have a friend who was complaining to me one day that she always seems to get quoted much higher estimates by tradesmen than what other people she knows paid for similar work. This woman takes very good care of herself and always looks very upscale- perfect haircut, nice clothes, make-up and gold jewelry. I said, "Dear, you always look like a million bucks. That's great if you're going out to dinner, but when you ask a Mexican tradesman to come give you an estimate on a job, I suggest you put on your gardening clothes, forego the make-up, and ditch the gold jewelry." She followed my advice, and now isn't perceived as a rich gringa who can easily be gouged.

Another neighbor, who is certainly not wealthy by US or Canadian standards, just middle class, even drives an old Toyota wagon, was always getting hit up for "advances" (which they never paid back, they just disappeared, never to come back) by his workers. He was b-tching about this, and asked me, "Do I look rich or something?"
I said, "Of course you look rich to them. You have a giant screen TV and fancy computer system, which they can see through the open door, you have a huge pool, and they could live with their entire extended family in your large house, where only you and your wife live. Your living room alone is bigger than the house they live in with their 4 kids and grandma and grandpa."

[Edited on 10-17-2022 by surabi]

baja-chris - 10-17-2022 at 03:31 PM

It seems areas of serious crime move around. 4-7 years ago there were frequent reports of murders and such in La Paz and Cabo. More recently Cancun. About a year ago the US state department warned to avoid the "Mexicali Valley" which I presume means the agricultural areas between Mexicali, Algodones and the upper gulf. Most recently bad crime has moved into LA Bay and San Felipe. It's not a pretty picture.
Here is a summary from about 4 years ago.
https://www.cheatsheet.com/culture/the-most-dangerous-cities...

Hook - 10-17-2022 at 04:42 PM

Ms. Humfreville was guilty of flaunting an opulent lifestyle? By owning an old truck?

Basic logic: All jackazzes are donkeys, but not all donkeys are jackazzes. :light:

Apologies, but the logic of that reply is eluding me. Actually, the MEANING of that is, too.

BTW, surabi seems to think my statement was directed at him/her, even though I didn't quote him/her. Puzzling. Yes, random things happen. But flaunting extravagance was the gist of why this latest thing happened?

Owning a Tacoma is flaunting extravagance, surabi? No indication of its age. No indication of the extravagance of the owner.

I agree. There is a pervasive mentality that always blames the victim these days.

And, as always, the Mexican cops get a pass. :rolleyes:

mtgoat666 - 10-17-2022 at 05:01 PM

If you have a house like Thurston Howell III, you better build a fence and hire a security guard!

To most Mexicans, the average expat gringo sure looks like Thurston Howell III

[Edited on 10-18-2022 by mtgoat666]

Hook - 10-17-2022 at 05:35 PM

Cartel related tweakers helping to run drugs are "MOST MEXICANS"?

Not where I live in Mexico.

In fact, I sense a relatively new outrage among young to middle age Mexican who are fed up with business as usual with law enforcement's complicity with the cartels. Many of them supported AMLO, but now see him as an incompetent fool for allowing all this.

surabi - 10-17-2022 at 06:50 PM

Cartel related tweakers helping to run drugs are "MOST MEXICANS"?

Not where I live in Mexico.

In fact, I sense a relatively new outrage among young to middle age Mexican who are fed up with business as usual with law enforcement's complicity with the cartels. Many of them supported AMLO, but now see him as an incompetent fool for allowing all this.

I agree- young educated Mexicans have told me that the corruption is an embarrassment on the international stage and that their generation will work to change that.

As far my comment about not flaunting one's relative wealth and my response to your comment, no, I didn't take it as directed at me, I was just explaining that no one claimed that all crime happens because someone's lifestyle made them a target.

And the person who said they were home invaded did, in fact, state that their home was right on the beach (not usually low value real estate, populated with shacks) and their truck was a 2019.
Again, in no way blaming the victim, just pointing out that thieves usually target those who they perceive as having something worth stealing.

[Edited on 10-18-2022 by surabi]

John Harper - 10-17-2022 at 07:43 PM

If you have a house like Thurston Howell III, you better build a fence and hire a security guard!

To most Mexicans, the average expat gringo sure looks like Thurston Howell III

I would imagine most of them wonder why their country hasn't developed like their northern neighbor, and why so many have to flee to the north and leave their homeland.

As we wonder if our country will fail as a democracy in the next few years.

John

JZ - 10-17-2022 at 08:14 PM

If you have a house like Thurston Howell III, you better build a fence and hire a security guard!

To most Mexicans, the average expat gringo sure looks like Thurston Howell III

Almost every trip I've taken to MX in the last 15-20 years has been with two to three MX friends/guards to look after us. Every place we go we immediately reach out and make friends with the locals who also look after us.

I'll never forget the day circa 2005 in Sonora hanging out with a pretty young guy who raced the trophy truck division in the Baja 1000 and who had a private plane.

He told me then that the way things were heading that the well off were going to need private security in MX and the US.

[Edited on 10-18-2022 by JZ]

mtgoat666 - 10-17-2022 at 08:30 PM

If you have a house like Thurston Howell III, you better build a fence and hire a security guard!

To most Mexicans, the average expat gringo sure looks like Thurston Howell III

Almost every trip I've taken to MX in the last 15-20 years has been with two to three MX friends/guards to look after us.

You travel with guards?

LancairDriver - 10-17-2022 at 08:53 PM

My place isn't surrounded by high walls and broken glass, looking like I have something super valuable to protect.

A can of bear spray on the nightstand (or somewhere easily accessible) might be a good idea.

John

” Never bring a can of bear spray to a gunfight.” In some cases maybe, but not against a gun. Or armed with a baseball bat against an AK 47 as with the unfortunate person fatally shot looking to see what was happening with his boat being stolen a while back.

surabi - 10-17-2022 at 09:13 PM

Almost every trip I've taken to MX in the last 15-20 years has been with two to three MX friends/guards to look after us. [/rquote]

You travel with guards?

Such a brave, tough guy, huh? I've lived pretty much full time in Mexico for 20 years, driven alone as a single woman the length of Baja twice, and up and down the mainland many times, and never had, nor felt the need for "Mexican friends/guards" to keep me safe.

[Edited on 10-18-2022 by surabi]

[Edited on 10-18-2022 by surabi]

[Edited on 10-18-2022 by surabi]

JZ - 10-17-2022 at 09:19 PM

I've lived pretty much full time in Mexico, driven alone as a single woman the length of Baja twice, and up and down the mainland many times, and never had, nor felt the need for "Mexican friends/guards" to keep me safe.

You drive a 20 yo Ford Escort, don't put makeup on before you leave the house, and would never own a house on the beach.

That is your choice.

[Edited on 10-18-2022 by JZ]

surabi - 10-17-2022 at 09:36 PM

You drive a 20 yo Ford Escort, don't put makeup on before you leave the house, and would never own a house on the beach.

That is your choice.

[Edited on 10-18-2022 by JZ]

Still can't read, huh? I said an Escape, not an Escort, and contrary to your superior put down, it isn't a junker at all. It's been really well-maintained and does what a vehicle is meant to do, get you to where you want to go, not impress people as you seem to need to do.

And who said I don't put on make-up before I leave the house? I guess a guy who wanted his wife to get a boob job would think make-up was important or relevant.

I guess your make-up is the reason you are such a target that you need to travel with guards? Maybe try toning down the lipstick next time you travel so you don't attract the attention of bad guys.

[Edited on 10-18-2022 by surabi]

John Harper - 10-18-2022 at 05:54 AM

Quote: Originally posted by LancairDriver

My place isn't surrounded by high walls and broken glass, looking like I have something super valuable to protect.

A can of bear spray on the nightstand (or somewhere easily accessible) might be a good idea.

John

I was suggesting bear spray as a non lethal defensive measure. Spray it and hopefully give yourself time to flee.

I wasn't suggesting using it as a prelude to an assault on the invaders. I doubt there are any John Rambo's among us at BN.

John

pacificobob - 10-18-2022 at 06:30 AM

If you have a house like Thurston Howell III, you better build a fence and hire a security guard!

To most Mexicans, the average expat gringo sure looks like Thurston Howell III

Almost every trip I've taken to MX in the last 15-20 years has been with two to three MX friends/guards to look after us.

If i was that much of a puzzy i would be ashamed to admit it.

You travel with guards?

John Harper - 10-18-2022 at 07:15 AM

I would imagine it's also paid for, rather than bank owned or leased. And, you don't need to live in fear of not having your own security force to enter Mexico.

Brave enough to resist wearing a mask, but not enough to travel alone to Mexico. I guess that's par for the course with some knuckleheads.

John

[Edited on 10-18-2022 by John Harper]

Hook - 10-18-2022 at 07:28 AM

If you have a house like Thurston Howell III, you better build a fence and hire a security guard!

To most Mexicans, the average expat gringo sure looks like Thurston Howell III

The most opulent homes in the town I live in are not owned by foreigners. They are owned by Mexicans. By far. Our town is becoming a haven for rich Mexicans from all over Mexico. The same is true in all large cities in Mexico. Rich Mexicans have been flaunting their wealth for CENTURIES. The difference is they have the wealth to subvert gun laws and/or hire armed protection. "Opulent" Americans that I know, generally don't have that kind of wealth.

The U.S. may have their 1% of relatively wealthy persons. In Mexico, a far smaller percentage own a far greater percentage of the wealth. IMO, THAT IS THE REASON SO MANY CHOOSE TO LEAVE MEXICO. There just isn't enough cash that moves (outside of maybe the cartels) that can provide a large number of Mexican with a living wage.

pacificobob - 10-18-2022 at 07:30 AM

Being that weak, and fearful is quite a burden. I'm embarrassed for you.

John Harper - 10-18-2022 at 08:09 AM

If you have a house like Thurston Howell III, you better build a fence and hire a security guard!

To most Mexicans, the average expat gringo sure looks like Thurston Howell III

Yes, that's what my statement is about, extreme wealth inequality. No opportunity for the larger population to build wealth.

No gringo is likely to be able to arm themselves like a rich Mexican or repel intruders with a security force. Have a plan to distract, and flee.

John

Don Pisto - 10-18-2022 at 08:30 AM

twenty years traveling mexico with guards! now THATS some hilarious chit, boy I bet he wished he could have taken a mulligan on that one! :lol:

John Harper - 10-18-2022 at 08:31 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Don Pisto

twenty years traveling mexico with guards! now THATS some hilarious chit, boy I bet he wished he could have taken a mulligan on that one! :lol:

I'm always startled by the complete lack of self awareness in some of his statements. Always good for a laugh.

John

surabi - 10-18-2022 at 08:37 AM

Almost every trip I've taken to MX in the last 15-20 years has been with two to three MX friends/guards to look after us. Every place we go we immediately reach out and make friends with the locals

How much of that "reaching out" is you, JZ, personally conversing directly with the locals in Spanish? (Vs your Mexican friends as a filter.)

Myself, I can't imagine (wanting to) travel that way-- seems like an insulator-- but apparently we have different reasons for exploring other lands.

Me, I'm happy as a pig in slop hanging out all day in the local market chatting with the vendors.

If he actually spoke Spanish, he would know how his instant local "friends" talk about gringoes like him between themselves.

willardguy - 10-18-2022 at 08:41 AM

"I'll never forget the day circa 2005 in Sonora hanging out with a pretty young guy who raced the trophy truck division in the Baja 1000 and who had a private plane."

My guess is "pretty young guys" are attracted to "pretty short guys" that travel with an entourage?

John Harper - 10-18-2022 at 08:53 AM

Maybe he needs some "walk up music?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye7PIyIcCro

John

JDCanuck - 10-18-2022 at 08:58 AM

Other than driving older vehicles, dressing down to understate your wealth, traveling to new unknown areas with either local friends or tour guards, what do you suggest to provide protection in an increasingly angry environment? Or is it really not worth worrying about despite what so many others have run into?
Extortion, kidnappings, home invasions and just disappearances seem to be a growing problem, or am I just talking to the wrong people who have run into this?

[Edited on 10-18-2022 by JDCanuck]

willardguy - 10-18-2022 at 09:13 AM

If he actually spoke Spanish, he would know how his instant local "friends" talk about gringoes like him between themselves.

BINGO!

John Harper - 10-18-2022 at 09:22 AM

Uhh... why are you directing this to me, when JZ is right here in the room?

In the room? I think he's cowering in a corner, with wet diapers.

John

JDCanuck - 10-18-2022 at 09:53 AM

This fairly recent report seems to be especially concerning as related to Baja.
https://timesofsandiego.com/crime/2022/09/02/news-reports-of...
One quote: Media reports of “high-impact” violence by criminal groups against authorities or large crowds meanwhile rose 756%, from 25 to 214.

[Edited on 10-18-2022 by JDCanuck]

mtgoat666 - 10-18-2022 at 10:48 AM

This fairly recent report seems to be especially concerning as related to Baja.
https://timesofsandiego.com/crime/2022/09/02/news-reports-of...
One quote: Media reports of “high-impact” violence by criminal groups against authorities or large crowds meanwhile rose 756%, from 25 to 214.

[Edited on 10-18-2022 by JDCanuck]

Sounds like we may need security guards on our next vacation, eh? If you can’t afford security guards on your vacation, perhaps JZ will let you tag along on vacation with his entourage that travels with security guards :lol:

JDCanuck - 10-18-2022 at 11:01 AM

I've heard that suggestion before. It sure would have helped the last time we were targets of extortion in Mexicali. Almost every travel site recommends travelling in groups for extra protection.

surabi - 10-18-2022 at 12:19 PM

Uhh... why are you directing this to me, when JZ is right here in the room?

Wasn't directing it at you, sorry if it seemed that way. Was adding to your comment re JZ's "reaching out" to locals, who he seems to think makes them instant, loyal friends.

surabi - 10-18-2022 at 12:58 PM

Other than driving older vehicles, dressing down to understate your wealth, traveling to new unknown areas with either local friends or tour guards, what do you suggest to provide protection in an increasingly angry environment? Or is it really not worth worrying about despite what so many others have run into?
Extortion, kidnappings, home invasions and just disappearances seem to be a growing problem, or am I just talking to the wrong people who have run into this?

[Edited on 10-18-2022 by JDCanuck]

I think it is on the increase, but that could be said of violence in general all over the world. The US has had 548 mass shootings in 2022 so far. Does that mean the average American worries about driving across 2 states to visit Grandma, or goes in a group or with a guard to go shopping?

For every violent incident you hear about in Mexico, there are 100s of thousands of foreigners who travel and live in Mexico without incident. That isn't what sells news.

I was once caravaning down with another single woman, each in our own vehicle, from Nogales to the PV area. I had made that drive several times, never had any problems, and was the lead car.
There was a bunch of highway construction going on in Guaymas, with the usual bad Mexican detour signage, and suddenly I found myself back on a highway, but with the highway signs indicating we were
headed for a town I had never heard of.

Just as I was about to pull over to check the map, a lone guy in a small car pulled up alongside and waved me over. I had heard all the scary stories, but it was the middle of the day, with tons of traffic, so I wasn't particularly fearful, but certainly wary. My friend had pulled up off the highway behind me. A nice looking man, in his 30s, dressed in business attire, with a name tag on his shirt got out of his car, said we were going the wrong way, that the turn to the highway we wanted was 2 lights back, where we should turn left.

I don't know how he knew we were lost, maybe the Sayulita sticker on my back window, maybe he'd been driving behind us and saw me hesitating every time I came to a new detour sign.

Anyway, I thanked him and turned around, but when I came to the first light, I saw another detour sign and turned left. I didn't realize he had also turned around and was behind us, but he drove alongside me and said, "No, follow me" and pulled in front. He led us through a couple blocks of a Mexican residential neighborhood, after which we emerged on the correct highway heading south. He pulled into a Pemex, smiled and waved as we drove by, and turned around, heading back up the highway in the other direction.

The guy had gone out of his way to help two lost gringas, without being asked.

I have experienced other acts of selfless kindness on my travels, and am of the mind that those are more common than acts of violence. At least I hope so, and that has been my experience.

[Edited on 10-18-2022 by surabi]

[Edited on 10-19-2022 by surabi]

JDCanuck - 10-18-2022 at 02:08 PM

At present, the criminals seem to be winning the battle in Baja, taking out the good police faster than the authorities can weed out the bad.

Maybe there's a lesson in that for us... give the decent, self sacrificing police their deserved respect and trust them to take out the bad ones instead of accusing the good ones of being crooked and chasing them out.

surabi - 10-18-2022 at 04:21 PM

The average monthly salary for police officers in Mexico is 20,100 pesos, which INCLUDES any and all benefits. The lowest starting salary is 9,260, with 32,000 for senior officers who have been with the force for decades. Small wonder they would be drawn to augment their salaries.

Maids and gardeners make almost that average, and certainly more than the starting police salary, in the area of Mexico where I live for jobs where they aren't putting their lives in danger.

Perhaps the Mexican police force would have a higher caliber of applicants if they were paid more.

However, while there are certainly good and honest police who want to help society by their service, there is also the fact that many bullies and wanna be bullies, the types who like throwing their weight around and strutting about with a gun on their hip, are drawn to the police and military- that is true everywhere. And those types are more likely to ally themselves with the cartels and criminals.

And in Mexico, the Govt, regardless of party affiliation, the police and the cartels are so intertwined, and have been for so long, that it's a pretty overwhelming prospect to find solutions to.

[Edited on 10-19-2022 by surabi]

[Edited on 10-19-2022 by surabi]

[Edited on 10-19-2022 by surabi]

JDCanuck - 10-18-2022 at 05:36 PM

Which makes me very happy with the calibre of police we have here in the RCMP. I have had lots of dealings with them and have always been impressed with how well they handle volatile situations and bring them to a peaceful conclusion.
They must get very frustrated when they deal with a very sticky situation and the perpetrator beats them back to the street(rinse and repeat)

Likewise, I have always appreciated the Mexican police and have watched them keep the peace in the tourist areas and airports, I just wish there was a way to reward them for their efforts without the bribes that seem to have become deeply embedded. They have certainly impressed me with their commitment and humanity on multiple occasions.
I watched them dig into their pockets and feed money to a street person who was searching for food in Mexico city airport so he wouldn't have to dig in the trash for it. We don't often see that up here.

[Edited on 10-19-2022 by JDCanuck]

surabi - 10-18-2022 at 06:12 PM

Yes, you don't hear about many cases of police brutality in Canada, although I've encountered some a**hole RCMP. And alliance and white gloves treatment by some of the police in Ottawa with the anti-Covid measures truckers convoy, who made life hell for residents and businesses in Ottawa for weeks, is now coming to light.

I had a young male friend who was hitchhiking from Victoria up Vancouver Island and got picked up by some psycho who threatened him with a gun. My friend managed to jump out of the car and run into the convenience store when the guy stopped for gas, telling the salesgirl to lock the door and call the cops. They arrived, and a high speed chase ensued, and they got the guy when his engine quickly blew up. The cop came back to the convenience store, told my friend the guy was known to them, very dangerous and he was lucky to be alive, pulled money out of his wallet and handed it to my friend, telling him not to hitch, to wait for the bus.

[Edited on 10-19-2022 by surabi]

[Edited on 10-19-2022 by surabi]

[Edited on 10-19-2022 by surabi]

surabi - 10-18-2022 at 08:56 PM

The DEA, and America's ridiculous "War on Drugs" is what precipitated the increased danger for average people in Mexico, IMO. The old drug lords, like mafia everywhere, ran a tight ship. They largely respected each other's territories, when they did vie for territory, they killed each other, they didn't mess with the common people, or open fire in crowded places full of old folks, women and children. They didn't kidnap and murder students, they didn't extort grandma and grandpa running their little corner store, they didn't target tourists or ex-pats. There was a sort of honor among thieves.

When the powers that be started arresting, locking up, or killing the old guard, the punks, raised in poverty in crime ridden areas, with no morals or conscience, in a world filled with violent video games and horrible crazy-making drugs like meth and fentanyl, rose up the ranks with no one to keep them in check. Now it just seems like a free-for-all, with these animals constantly trying to take over each other's territories, terrorizing the populace, killing the police, turning one area after another into places people are scared to go or live.

[Edited on 10-19-2022 by surabi]

[Edited on 10-19-2022 by surabi]

JDCanuck - 10-19-2022 at 06:51 AM

The DEA, and America's ridiculous "War on Drugs" is what precipitated the increased danger for average people in Mexico, IMO. The old drug lords, like mafia everywhere, ran a tight ship. They largely respected each other's territories, when they did vie for territory, they killed each other, they didn't mess with the common people, or open fire in crowded places full of old folks, women and children. They didn't kidnap and murder students, they didn't extort grandma and grandpa running their little corner store, they didn't target tourists or ex-pats. There was a sort of honor among thieves.

When the powers that be started arresting, locking up, or killing the old guard, the punks, raised in poverty in crime ridden areas, with no morals or conscience, in a world filled with violent video games and horrible crazy-making drugs like meth and fentanyl, rose up the ranks with no one to keep them in check. Now it just seems like a free-for-all, with these animals constantly trying to take over each other's territories, terrorizing the populace, killing the police, turning one area after another into places people are scared to go or live.

[Edited on 10-19-2022 by surabi]

[Edited on 10-19-2022 by surabi]

Another compassionate and dedicated RCMP officer just killed in Vancouver by a street person she failed to adequately protect herself from. Hatred against police generated in the last couple years has not helped. Drugs, homelessness and the resulting violent crime they create are spiraling out of control everyplace. Exploding illegal drug use is definitely winning the war at present. What is your solution if not fighting it at the supply side?

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/british-columbia/arti...

[Edited on 10-19-2022 by JDCanuck]

JDCanuck - 10-19-2022 at 07:33 AM

Lencho; I see RCMP working alongside the social workers with the homeless often, and my daughter was also a mental health worker working with street people. Their standard MO is defuse the anger and approach as a support person, not with guns at the ready. I am amazed at the risk they will put themselves at in these situations, which is why I get a bit angry when I see the media trashing them and generating anger and resentment in the people they are out there trying to aid and protect.

surabi - 10-19-2022 at 09:25 AM

[Edited on 10-19-2022 by surabi][/rquote]

What is your solution if not fighting it at the supply side?

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/british-columbia/arti...

[Edited on 10-19-2022 by JDCanuck]

And how well has "fighting it on the supply side" worked out? Seem to be just as many drugs available as ever. You can't stop the drug trade. But you can work towards reducing the demand. If there is no demand for a product, there is no point in supplying it, right?

Why are you not a homeless drug addict? Why am I not? Why are none of my kids or grandkids nodding out in a grimey alley, strung out on fentanyl? It's certainly just as available to us as it is to anyone else who wants it. The reasons people end up like that isn't because drugs are available.

Crime, poverty, and dangerous drug use are the result of economic disparity, lack of education and opportunities, and mental health issues. Addressing those issues, shunting the money currently wasted on trying to stop the flow of drugs into education, free after school programs for kids who need them, good mental health services, paying people a living wage so a single mom doesn't have to be out working 2 jobs while her kids are unsupervised, those are the kind of solutions that keep people from wanting to do bad drugs in the first place.

And what struck me when my kids were young, is that while courses like metal or woodworking shop, sewing and cooking, were offered on the high school level, they aren't offered on the elementary school level. My kids were all good at academics, but some kids aren't. When a kid doesn't have the kind of mind that leads them to be interested in reading, writing, math, etc, what happens? They make poor grades and end up feeling dumb. But those kids may be a whizzes at fixing mechanical things, building things, they may find they love to cook, or sew and are good at it. If those kinds of programs were offered at the elementary school level, those kids would build self-esteem by finding something they excel at, and they may even start doing better at the academics, because they develop self-confidence and of course everyone needs to have basic language and math skills to make it in this world.

Imagine a kid who only gets Kraft dinner and hot dogs at home, whose family eats at Mcdonalds three times a week. If a cooking course was offered at the elementary level, that child might find they love creating meals from all the ingredients they never had been exposed to before. "Oh, you mean a salad isn't just a piece of wilted iceberg lettuce and a slice of tomato? I could make a delicious, and pretty salad, grating beets and carrots and using purple cabbage and apples and tangerines?"

That kid could end up becoming a 5* chef instead of doing B&Es and meth.

And what the "war on drugs" fails to acknowledge is that humans have sought to alter their consciousness throughout history and all over the world. Every culture has a way to get high or feel "different", whether it's a form of alcohol, a plant, caffeine, tobacco, yoga practice, or even working themselves up into a religious frenzy. You can see the desire to alter one's consciousness and perception even in little kids, who find out that if they spin around fast, they get dizzy and wobbly.

There is a book called The Fourth Drive, by American psychopharmacologist Dr. Ronald Siegal who believes that the desire for some form of intoxication is a basic human drive, as fundamental as food, drink and sex.

That makes a lot of sense if you look at psychology, history and anthropology studies. So if we acknowledge this part of the human make-up as a basic drive, it's a matter of having acceptable intoxicating substances available that lead people to higher consciousness, or relax them, without leading them to be crazy or violent, lacking motivation, ill, or dead.

[Edited on 10-19-2022 by surabi]

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[Edited on 10-19-2022 by surabi]

Don Pisto - 10-19-2022 at 09:38 AM

BRAVO!...gracias

JDCanuck - 10-19-2022 at 10:44 AM

While every one of those suggestions would be a positive , do you see any place where they are actually being enhanced? Each one of them has been drastically reduced in our area, which also contributed to the problem. There are lots of reports out there of what the past two years have done to the mental health of the youth, making them particularly vulnerable to predatory forces.
Institutions closed, health worker training drastically reduced and now a severe shortage of all medical personnel.
Perhaps in your area you are not seeing this, but in ours it is now at crisis levels and the drug use and death rates and crime growth are just the most obvious signs.

surabi - 10-19-2022 at 10:48 AM

If anyone is interested in understanding how and why people end up on the street, addicted to drugs, and why addressing those reasons is how we start to solve the drug problem, there is a series of amazing, mesmerizing interviews with homeless drug addicts called Soft White Underbelly. Just Google it. Almost all of these people grew up neglected, and/or physically and sexually abused. And while some of the people in those interviews have obviously damaged their brains beyond repair, many are extremely articulate and obviously intelligent.

Dealing with the drug problem means saving children from this sort of upbringing, so they don't grow into people who need to find ways to dull their constant pain and self-loathing.

[Edited on 10-19-2022 by surabi]

surabi - 10-19-2022 at 11:06 AM

"There are lots of reports out there of what the past two years have done to the mental health of the youth, making them particularly vulnerable to predatory forces."

Sorry, but I don't buy that. The pandemic was hard on everyone, and certainly hard on kids and parents, with schools and daycares closed, and many parents busy working from home online. Some parents rose the challenge (yes, surprise surprise, responsible parenting is really hard sometimes), creating a small bubble of friends and family so the kids would not be totally isolated, did schoolwork with them, came up with interesting and creative projects to do with them, engaged in lots of outdoor physical activity with them. And some whined and acted like it was just too overwhelming, letting their kids sit in front of a screen playing video games and doing who knows what online all day, as if that was a suitable babysitter.

I would also venture a guess that the parents who explained to their kids why these lockdown measures were necessary fared much better than those whose parents railed against them, talking around and to the kids about how it was stupid and unnecessary, that Covid was overblown, and how the government is just trying to control everyone.

My grandkids didn't end up being vulnerable to predatory forces, or falling behind in their studies, did yours?

And do I see the solutions I proposed being enhanced? No. I am saying they need to be, because stopping the flow of drugs is a losing proposition and the resources currently used to try to do that should be redirected to addressing and solving the underlying reasons why anyone wants those drugs in the first place.

[Edited on 10-19-2022 by surabi]

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RFClark - 10-19-2022 at 11:52 AM

S,

It wasn’t COVID that was hard on everyone! It was the shagged response by government that was hard on everyone!

As to your feelings about how things would be “better” if the older wiser drug lords still ran things. I would direct you to Italy of the ‘20s - ‘40s where for awhile the trains did run on time. More recently North Korea comes to mind. No crime there either and hunger and poverty are against the law! A true workers paradise! (Not!!)

surabi - 10-19-2022 at 12:18 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark

S,

It wasn’t COVID that was hard on everyone! It was the shagged response by government that was hard on everyone!

As to your feelings about how things would be “better” if the older wiser drug lords still ran things. I would direct you to Italy of the ‘20s - ‘40s where for awhile the trains did run on time. More recently North Korea comes to mind. No crime there either and hunger and poverty are against the law! A true workers paradise! (Not!!)

Yes, let's fault govts and health professionals for trying to stop the spread of a deadly pandemic. Brilliant.

And there are ways to address and find solutions to poverty and crime other than having a Communist dictatorship.

JZ - 10-19-2022 at 12:26 PM

"There are lots of reports out there of what the past two years have done to the mental health of the youth, making them particularly vulnerable to predatory forces."

Sorry, but I don't buy that. The pandemic was hard on everyone, and certainly hard on kids and parents, with schools and daycares closed, and many parents busy working from home online. Some parents rose the challenge (yes, surprise surprise, responsible parenting is really hard sometimes), creating a small bubble of friends and family so the kids would not be totally isolated, did schoolwork with them, came up with interesting and creative projects to do with them, engaged in lots of outdoor physical activity with them. And some whined and acted like it was just too overwhelming, letting their kids sit in front of a screen playing video games and doing who knows what online all day, as if that was a suitable babysitter.

I would also venture a guess that the parents who explained to their kids why these lockdown measures were necessary fared much better than those whose parents railed against them, talking around and to the kids about how it was stupid and unnecessary, that Covid was overblown, and how the government is just trying to control everyone.

My grandkids didn't end up being vulnerable to predatory forces, or falling behind in their studies, did yours?

And do I see the solutions I proposed being enhanced? No. I am saying they need to be, because stopping the flow of drugs is a losing proposition and the resources currently used to try to do that should be redirected to addressing and solving the underlying reasons why anyone wants those drugs in the first place.

The pandemic didn't need to be hard on "everyone." Healthy ppl under 50 had very few health risks.

But broad sweeping lock downs made it impact all. They should have done the things necessary to protect the vulnerable.

I don't know if anyone is paying attention, but the amount of lying and misinformation from the government that is coming out now is staggering. Lie after lie after lie.

Wrecked the economy, crushed thousand upon thousands of small business, set children s learning back 40 years. It's just terrible what these ppl did.

I don't think Americans would stand for the bull-crap again.

surabi - 10-19-2022 at 01:05 PM

"crushed thousand upon thousands of small business, set children s learning back 40 years."

You didn't seem to do too badly, what with the the govt. handouts you received. Still have money to travel, purchase expensive tickets to attend concerts and professional sporring events, buy gas for all your big boys toys. I wouldn't call that suffering.
And how do you set a 6 year old's learning back 40 years? Did you skip school when basic subtraction was taught?

[Edited on 10-19-2022 by surabi]

John Harper - 10-19-2022 at 01:07 PM

Set children's learning back 40 years.

You are delusional. Do you even read what you post, or just cut and paste from the Epoch Times?

John

[Edited on 10-19-2022 by John Harper]

JZ - 10-19-2022 at 01:19 PM

"crushed thousand upon thousands of small business, set children s learning back 40 years."

You didn't seem to do too badly, what with the the govt. handouts you received. Still have money to travel, attend concerts, buy gas for all your big boys toys. I wouldn't call that suffering.
And how do you set a 6 year old's learning back 40 years? Did you skip school when basic subtraction was taught?

Govt. said in August that test scores where the lowest in 40 years. A bunch of othere mental damages and a big impact on their life time earnings potential.

Basically the Fed govt. confirmed everything we told them in 2020 would happen, did happen.

surabi - 10-19-2022 at 01:45 PM

"The pandemic didn't need to be hard on "everyone." Healthy ppl under 50 had very few health risks."

You're very selective when pretending to care about anyone other than yourself. In case you aren't aware, most people don't retire at the age of 50. Yet anyone over 50 should have stayed home, while everyone else went about as if there was no pandemic and no health risks?

And 71,363 people in the US alone under the age of 50 have died of Covid. And no, they didn't all have some underlying condition, and even if some did, that doesn't mean they would have died had they not contracted Covid. How many more would have died had there been no lockdowns or mask mandates? How many preventable deaths are acceptable to you?

And why did you find it necessary to derail a non-political thread dealing with crime, where posters were having thoughtful, respectful dialogue, and use it as yet another venue to spout your repetitive right-wing views on Covid and the govt.? Don't you ever get bored with repeating yourself endlessly?

[Edited on 10-19-2022 by surabi]

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John Harper - 10-19-2022 at 03:41 PM

Don't you ever get bored with repeating yourself endlessly?

He went from pulling the wings off flies to being an internet troll. I think we all know why he needs bodyguards in public.

John

mtgoat666 - 10-19-2022 at 05:50 PM

Half pint:
They say hindsight is 20/20. In your case, hindsight appears to be 20/200

pacificobob - 10-19-2022 at 07:00 PM

Zero remaining credibility

advrider - 10-19-2022 at 08:31 PM

26 years in corrections and a lot of conversations with inmates, same story with most. Parents screwed them up, guys cooking meth at 16 because that what their parents taught them! They aspired to be a gangster because that's what they were taught.
I will say we need to start in grade school if we are ever going to ever make an impact on any of the social problems. We can't send kids/adults back to the same environment that put them in jail, it doesn't work!
I don't usually respond to these discussions, but the system is broken no matter what side you are on. I've spent over half of my life living in the system.

RFClark - 10-19-2022 at 10:13 PM

S,

Italy wasn’t a Communist dictatorship. Mussolini was first a Socialist.

At least in the US government and Health Professionals are not he same thing, Canada and the UK they are practically the same thing. Those health care professionals who disagreed with the government talking points were silenced and in some cases fired.

There are a rather large number of deaths that can be directly attributed to bad government policies NY, NJ and CA do come to mind here.

JZ - 10-19-2022 at 10:18 PM

Half pint:
They say hindsight is 20/20. In your case, hindsight appears to be 20/200

Not hindsight bud. We raised objections in real time.

There were so many early warning signs of the mismanagement.

Ateo - 10-20-2022 at 07:01 AM

OT is always available if people want to talk covid mismanagement and US politics....

surfhat - 10-20-2022 at 10:04 AM

Ateo, from your lips to Dougs ears. If only......

It would be good to see a notice posted for those whose inappropriate posts were moved to OT and told where they can find their latest hits.

Hits to our common decency have proliferated to an extent some have left because of them. I must be a glutton for punishment to come on this site everyday hoping for those gems that brought us all here to begin with. My hope springs eternal nevertheless.

surabi - 10-20-2022 at 10:36 AM

And that is exactly what moderators of other forums I follow do- move posts into the appropriate section, and add a post noting that they have done that.

willardguy - 10-20-2022 at 10:46 AM

unfortunately "some" here absolutely refuse and "some" here have carte blanche to belt out whatever they please. RHIP I suppose!

RFClark - 10-20-2022 at 11:29 AM

The problems in Baja are not unique to Baja. Just as weather and pollution cross borders, so do problems in the human condition. What we should all be able to agree on is that personal pejoratives have no place here. So far even that hasn't been possible!

We could count the number of personal attacks and post the results, but I think that everyone knows who does it and even why. What’s missing is respect for views different from your own. In debating which used to be a subject taught even in high school, most learn early that an appeal to authority as a final answer is the sign of a weak position. Adding personal attacks takes it downhill from there.

The problems in Baja and Mexico generally predate the founding of an independent country and are as current as recordings of 4 of LA’s most powerful Latino politicians dissing most everyone outside of their own perceived group. Prejudice truly is colorblind! Every group suffers from it!

The problem here is similar. Questioning authority is a necessary part of free speech and democracy, name calling and banning opinions you disagree with are not!

[Edited on 10-20-2022 by RFClark]

David K - 10-20-2022 at 12:13 PM

Bravo, RF! :light:

JZ - 10-20-2022 at 12:49 PM

People should start more Baja threads, especially travel and photo threads. The ppl complaining here, don't post about Baja. They just complain.

Let's see some trip reports. I'm going next month and will post pics and stories.

In the meantime, here is a photo of the compound just North of Agua Verde. The place is amazing.

25.568674, -111.152724

[Edited on 10-20-2022 by JZ]

JZ - 10-20-2022 at 12:53 PM

The built a small dock.

chippy - 10-20-2022 at 02:10 PM

Heavy security at that place! I don´t know who owns it but the guards wouldn't answer any questions and escorted us out. Looks like a killer party pad.

JZ - 10-20-2022 at 02:26 PM

My friends told me once who owned it, but I've forgotten the name. Will ask them.

Alm - 10-22-2022 at 04:09 PM

Quote: Originally posted by PaulW

I have my list
1 San Luis. Avoid if possible. Based on reading the Yuma news.
2 LAB. Based on reading. I will still go there but have more caution than normal.

Where is LAB?

John Harper - 10-22-2022 at 04:19 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Alm

Quote: Originally posted by PaulW

I have my list
1 San Luis. Avoid if possible. Based on reading the Yuma news.
2 LAB. Based on reading. I will still go there but have more caution than normal.

Where is LAB?

Bahia de Los Angeles. LAB?

John

honda tom - 10-23-2022 at 08:07 AM