BajaNomad

understanding Mexico

4x4abc - 2-20-2023 at 08:08 AM

a must see if you want to understand Mexico

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzgMePQvSdc

JZ - 2-20-2023 at 09:03 AM

I watched this yesterday. It's interesting.

bajaric - 2-20-2023 at 11:33 AM

Video shows how geography and climate concentrated the population of Mexico in the central highlands; a geographical and climatological "sweet spot" for growing maize on a large scale. Such places enabled humans to make the leap from nomadic hunting and gathering to agricultural societies that stayed in one place.

It was a similar climatological sweet spot in the middle east that gave rise to western civilization. Indeed, all of the trappings of modern western society can be traced back to a particular type of grass that had a large seed kernel, the predecessor to modern wheat.

What Europe had going for it that Mexico did not have was navigable waterways. Otherwise, the Aztecs might have conquered the Spaniards instead of the other way around.

JZ - 2-20-2023 at 11:45 AM

I've seen some what similar videos on Spain. Showing how mountains have made very large dead zones in the center of the country with few people.


TMW - 2-20-2023 at 02:17 PM

I found it to be a very interesting presentation, thanks.

BajaBlanca - 2-20-2023 at 07:17 PM

Really interesting and excellent presentation. Thanks.

4x4abc - 2-20-2023 at 07:55 PM

one part made me cringe though

"you can't build roads with concrete in the jungle, because it is too wet for the cement to dry"

cement does not dry - it hardens/cures
it is a chemical process (28 days)
this process will even happen under water

surabi - 2-20-2023 at 08:10 PM

That jumped out at me, too. In fact, you want to keep fresh cement and concrete wet for as long as possible after it has set, hosing it down a couple times a day if the weather is dry and sunny. The longer it stays damp, the stronger it is. Concrete and cement that dries out too quickly is weaker and prone to cracking.

[Edited on 2-21-2023 by surabi]

JZ - 2-20-2023 at 08:54 PM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc  
one part made me cringe though

"you can't build roads with concrete in the jungle, because it is too wet for the cement to dry"

cement does not dry - it hardens/cures
it is a chemical process (28 days)
this process will even happen under water


I didn't know that. Huge mistake in the video.

4x4abc - 2-21-2023 at 09:13 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JZ  
Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc  
one part made me cringe though

"you can't build roads with concrete in the jungle, because it is too wet for the cement to dry"

cement does not dry - it hardens/cures
it is a chemical process (28 days)
this process will even happen under water


I didn't know that. Huge mistake in the video.



minor flaw
but it undermines credibility

soulpatch - 2-21-2023 at 08:44 PM

That was quite interesting.
Having lived on the coast of Nayarit and Jalisco along with time in the Bajio it was nice to see this summary.

Thanks for sharing

Marc - 2-25-2023 at 09:55 AM

mtgoat666 - 3-2-2023 at 08:32 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Divert  

I'm also sorry to hear that MrBill's wife has died a few months ago. It was in the Yucca City news.


Sad news. She was a nomad but did not post here. Hope mrbill returns to entertain us.

Skipjack Joe - 3-2-2023 at 03:13 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Marc  


Excellent book. Helps explain why Mexicans are so undependable. In their mind they're not. They reserve the freedom to decide which appointments they are free to break and which can't be broken. Their world is much more malleable than ours.

Ateo - 3-2-2023 at 08:17 PM

Just for the record, I know many Mexicans who are very dependable. Have a good evening everyone.

surabi - 3-2-2023 at 08:29 PM

Ditto. My cleaner, who has been working for me for 2 years, has never shown up late or been a no show and if she has some conflict on her normal cleaning day, which has only happened once, and involved her daughter graduating that day, she messaged me days ahead of time to see if she could switch the day that week. The cleaner I had before that for 5 years was just as reliable. My plumber shows up when he says he will, and the guy who runs the internet company I use always messages all his clients ahead of time if he needs to do maintenance on his system, telling us when there will be an outage and for how long.

It's one thing to note cultural differences that tend to apply in some circumstances, but a statement like "Helps explain why Mexicans are so undependable" is pretty discriminatory.



[Edited on 3-3-2023 by surabi]

[Edited on 3-3-2023 by surabi]

mtgoat666 - 3-2-2023 at 09:37 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Skipjack Joe  
Excellent book. Helps explain why Mexicans are so undependable.


I try to ignore a$$hat gringos that make blanket statements that “Mexicans are so undependable.” Such people are ignoramuses.

Skipjack Joe - 3-3-2023 at 10:46 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by Skipjack Joe  
Excellent book. Helps explain why Mexicans are so undependable.


I try to ignore a$$hat gringos that make blanket statements that “Mexicans are so undependable.” Such people are ignoramuses.


No, it's you that's an ignoramus. And a crude one at that.

If you lived in Mexico rather than pontificate from whichever rathole you live in then you would know what I'm talking about. In fact, if you read the book you would know to shut your yap. Calling someone a racist because he recognizes a culture that is different than your is racist itself because it means that you judge others by your own culture and can't accept differences. So you're the racist because you measure others by your own measuring stick.

Mexicans are very dependable in business arrangements. That is true. But in personal interactions they are liberal with commitments. When a Mexican party is scheduled to start at 7pm guests start to arrive at 8:30.

Mexicans prioritize agreeability over veracity. They will make commitments they don't intend to commit to because they wish to make you happy. The current moment is all important. The future is not. Saying no ruins the current interaction. To a Mexican saying yes is preferrable and later simply not act on the commitment. I have seen this too many times to doubt this about their culture. Yes, it's lying but Mexicans don't see it as a big deal. As I stated earlier, all arrangements are propositions that may or may not be kept depending on circumstances. What is more surprising is that often when a simple phone call could be made to notify the person they will not show up it does not come. This is acceptable because they act that way with one another and understand that just as they may not keep a commitment, so they do not expect a firm commitment from others. I am talking about commitments for engagements. Hell, I have workers who complete half of a project and then simply don't show up to finish it because the work is not to their liking. I have had agreements to meet with someone to go somewhere and left waiting with a no show. More than once. Then on the next encounter nothing is mentioned.

So Goat, next time before running your mouth off know what you're talking about because you're big on name calling and accusations but you really don't know much about life down here. Basically, you're an ignorant man.

Ateo - 3-4-2023 at 09:35 AM

Skipjack, I appreciate you taking the time to elaborate on your statement. I wish you a good day.

David K - 3-4-2023 at 09:43 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Ateo  
Skipjack, I appreciate you taking the time to elaborate on your statement. I wish you a good day.


Ditto! :light:

He is not from Mexico, but....

AKgringo - 3-4-2023 at 09:58 AM

Skipjack, you just described my brother-in-law in a way that I would struggle to put into words. I am also sure that he would not recognize himself if he read your post.

Edit; I was talking about the agreeability part, not the crude ignoramus part!

[Edited on 3-4-2023 by AKgringo]

Marc - 3-4-2023 at 10:02 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Quote: Originally posted by Ateo  
Skipjack, I appreciate you taking the time to elaborate on your statement. I wish you a good day.


Ditto! :light:


Me 3. He's attacked me for being racist.

Marty Mateo - 3-4-2023 at 12:58 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Skipjack Joe  
Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by Skipjack Joe  
Excellent book. Helps explain why Mexicans are so undependable.


I try to ignore a$$hat gringos that make blanket statements that “Mexicans are so undependable.” Such people are ignoramuses.


No, it's you that's an ignoramus. And a crude one at that.

If you lived in Mexico rather than pontificate from whichever rathole you live in then you would know what I'm talking about. In fact, if you read the book you would know to shut your yap. Calling someone a racist because he recognizes a culture that is different than your is racist itself because it means that you judge others by your own culture and can't accept differences. So you're the racist because you measure others by your own measuring stick.

Mexicans are very dependable in business arrangements. That is true. But in personal interactions they are liberal with commitments. When a Mexican party is scheduled to start at 7pm guests start to arrive at 8:30.

Mexicans prioritize agreeability over veracity. They will make commitments they don't intend to commit to because they wish to make you happy. The current moment is all important. The future is not. Saying no ruins the current interaction. To a Mexican saying yes is preferrable and later simply not act on the commitment. I have seen this too many times to doubt this about their culture. Yes, it's lying but Mexicans don't see it as a big deal. As I stated earlier, all arrangements are propositions that may or may not be kept depending on circumstances. What is more surprising is that often when a simple phone call could be made to notify the person they will not show up it does not come. This is acceptable because they act that way with one another and understand that just as they may not keep a commitment, so they do not expect a firm commitment from others. I am talking about commitments for engagements. Hell, I have workers who complete half of a project and then simply don't show up to finish it because the work is not to their liking. I have had agreements to meet with someone to go somewhere and left waiting with a no show. More than once. Then on the next encounter nothing is mentioned.

So Goat, next time before running your mouth off know what you're talking about because you're big on name calling and accusations but you really don't know much about life down here. Basically, you're an ignorant man.



So your anecdotal experiences makes you feel you can paint the entire Mexican population as one homogeneous group , that’s racism at its core. Thanks for confirming.

surabi - 3-4-2023 at 01:35 PM

I concur. Skipjack's response does himself no favors.

It's one thing to discuss cultural differences- to pretend that they don't exist is ridiculous. To be aware of them promotes understanding.

But saying "Mexicans are..." and "Mexicans do this..." or Mexicans think..." is discriminatory (I wouldn't label it racist, because people do this about many demographics that may in fact be of their own race, just of another nationality, religion, sexual orientation, or political persuation).

Noting that "many Mexicans..." or "Mexicans tend to..." or "if a Mexican does this it's probably because..." is quite different from painting everyone of a certain culture with the same brush, as if they all act and think alike.

Also, in this age of mass media, social media, and increased international travel, many long-standing cultural norms tend to evolve and change when people, no matter where they are from, learn that what is normal behavior to them is not normal in the rest of the world. If you never leave the area where you were born and raised and have little exposure to the world outside of it, your cultural norms are practiced and accepted by all in your world. With exposure to outside influence, knowledge, meeting and interacting with people from other cultures, those accepted cultural norms tend to undergo metamorphisis.

I have lived in Mexico for 20 years and haven't noticed any difference in the dependability of Mexicans according to whether they are doing business or it's a social interaction. Some are reliable and some aren't. There are reliable and unreliable people in every culture.

This doesn't mean that Mexico as a culture doesn't have some different values than other cultures, like preferring to say yes so as to not to disappoint in the moment, regardless of whether they follow through accordingly. The point is that humans are individuals, and not all Mexicans do that, so saying that they do, or that they all value agreeability in the moment over commitment simply isn't true.


[Edited on 3-4-2023 by surabi]

[Edited on 3-4-2023 by surabi]

surabi - 3-4-2023 at 03:37 PM

Very true. Almost everyone has prejudices that they may or may not be consciously aware of. To adamantly claim that we don't means we aren't even willing to entertain the possibility.

When I hear people claim they "don't see color" when dealing with people of another race, I am suspicious. You would have to be legally blind not to notice that their skin is a different color from yours. It's like saying that a chihuahua and an Alaskan husky look the same to you. That you might love all dogs is different than saying you don't see any difference between them.

And even if another person's race, nationality, or sexual orientation doesn't affect us viewing them as equals who we could easily become friends with, it doesn't mean we don't have anything to learn about being sensitive to what might be offensive to them.

My daughter has a Chinese/Canadian friend she has been close friends with since high school. They have gone travelling together, attended events together, even lived at each other's homes when their own were undergoing renovations. One day my daughter was sitting with her friend and went on a bit of a rant about Chinese buying up big houses in Vancouver. As soon as the words were out of her mouth, she was horrified at herself and said, "OMG, Mai Ling, I'm so sorry, that was inexcusable of me."
It was precisely because she never thinks about her friend in terms of race that she didn't consider how her words might be taken before she said them.
Luckily her friend wasn't offended, or at least said she wasn't- she knew that it wasn't because my daughter was racist against Asians or Chinese- it was about housing being taken off the market for locals, only to sit there empty, as an investment, not a racial slur. But my daughter could have just ranted about viable housing being taken off the market without mentioning the fact that it was mostly Chinese doing this, because another person of Chinese extraction easily could have found it insulting.

[Edited on 3-5-2023 by surabi]

[Edited on 3-5-2023 by surabi]

[Edited on 3-5-2023 by surabi]

Marty Mateo - 3-5-2023 at 11:41 AM

“I would be impressed to find anyone on this forum who is not racist to some degree or other. :light: “

I would agree that most are guilty doing or saying something racist sometimes but the difference is being able to acknowledged it and learn from it. As a white male with an upper level income,I acknowledge I have a privileged place in the world and feel I try to learn and evolve. I don’t have a guilt complex for past events by I do acknowledge the past and present injustices and what effects it has on the world today

mtgoat666 - 3-5-2023 at 04:17 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Marty Mateo  
“I would be impressed to find anyone on this forum who is not racist to some degree or other. :light: “





Marc - 3-16-2023 at 09:01 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JZ  
Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc  
one part made me cringe though

"you can't build roads with concrete in the jungle, because it is too wet for the cement to dry"

cement does not dry - it hardens/cures
it is a chemical process (28 days)
this process will even happen under water


I didn't know that. Huge mistake in the video.



I spent my childhood wetting down fresh poured cement for my dad's building projects. He explained to me the process. Even so, I have to catch myself nowadays not to use dry time instead of cure time. Just had a driveway poured here in Palm Springs.


[Edited on 3-17-2023 by Marc]

surabi - 3-16-2023 at 09:19 AM

"I spent my childhood wetting down fresh poured cement for my dad's building projects."

Had a friend who spent his youth carrying buckets of cement and concrete blocks up ladders for his mason father. Swore he'd never do physical labor again, and he didn't- became a clothing designer.

Salsa - 3-17-2023 at 05:09 PM

Not everyone's definition of racist is the same.

Just because you are offended does not make me wrong !!!!!!!!!!!!

Don

JDCanuck - 5-6-2023 at 06:46 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Skipjack Joe  
Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by Skipjack Joe  
Excellent book. Helps explain why Mexicans are so undependable.


I try to ignore a$$hat gringos that make blanket statements that “Mexicans are so undependable.” Such people are ignoramuses.


No, it's you that's an ignoramus. And a crude one at that.

If you lived in Mexico rather than pontificate from whichever rathole you live in then you would know what I'm talking about. In fact, if you read the book you would know to shut your yap. Calling someone a racist because he recognizes a culture that is different than your is racist itself because it means that you judge others by your own culture and can't accept differences. So you're the racist because you measure others by your own measuring stick.

Mexicans are very dependable in business arrangements. That is true. But in personal interactions they are liberal with commitments. When a Mexican party is scheduled to start at 7pm guests start to arrive at 8:30.

Mexicans prioritize agreeability over veracity. They will make commitments they don't intend to commit to because they wish to make you happy. The current moment is all important. The future is not. Saying no ruins the current interaction. To a Mexican saying yes is preferrable and later simply not act on the commitment. I have seen this too many times to doubt this about their culture. Yes, it's lying but Mexicans don't see it as a big deal. As I stated earlier, all arrangements are propositions that may or may not be kept depending on circumstances. What is more surprising is that often when a simple phone call could be made to notify the person they will not show up it does not come. This is acceptable because they act that way with one another and understand that just as they may not keep a commitment, so they do not expect a firm commitment from others. I am talking about commitments for engagements. Hell, I have workers who complete half of a project and then simply don't show up to finish it because the work is not to their liking. I have had agreements to meet with someone to go somewhere and left waiting with a no show. More than once. Then on the next encounter nothing is mentioned.

So Goat, next time before running your mouth off know what you're talking about because you're big on name calling and accusations but you really don't know much about life down here. Basically, you're an ignorant man.


Pretty much exactly our experience as well. This is Mexico, not a country where a verbal commitment is a bond like we are used to.
Pays to plan your goals accordingly. Even signed contractual agreements are not to be relied upon.

My family and friends who worked in other cultures freely admit this was an issue they quickly learned did not fly in other cultures, and learned to adapt quickly or lose a lot of work.


[Edited on 5-6-2023 by JDCanuck]

Alan - 5-6-2023 at 09:19 AM

MAÑANA... The busiest day in Mexico! :biggrin:

understanding Mexico

bajarickster - 5-6-2023 at 11:16 AM

Thanks Harald. i just watched and informative