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Tree Roots

PaulW - 4-5-2023 at 08:45 AM

Tree Roots
After a long day with no place to camp in the arroyo we came to a wide sandy place and set up camp. The we were beside the high side of the wash and noticed the large tree with its branched growing down the side of the wash.
Here are a couple of pictures see the cords on one of the pics to see where.

IMG_2297.JPG - 193kB

4x4abc - 4-5-2023 at 09:31 AM

looks like a high mountain location to me

PaulW - 4-5-2023 at 09:35 AM

Attempt along the road from San Ignacio toward Mulege. Dead end for two tracks.

Roots Camp

PaulW - 4-5-2023 at 09:45 AM

GE Images

Roots camp.jpg - 229kB

4x4abc - 4-5-2023 at 09:47 AM

coming from the San Ignacio side?

PaulW - 4-5-2023 at 09:49 AM

Started in San Ignacio
Found heavy flood damage in teh washes.
Local residents are doing fine on teh newly created paths.

4x4abc - 4-5-2023 at 09:51 AM

here are the drivable roads in the area - your spot is in the middle of nowhere

location 2.jpg - 260kB

David K - 4-5-2023 at 10:03 AM

Harald, your latitude figure is different than Paul's.

4x4abc - 4-5-2023 at 10:39 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Harald, your latitude figure is different than Paul's.

Paul's tree root image shows 26 53.9898, -112 33.7188

images from GE

PaulW - 4-5-2023 at 11:13 AM

lots of roads following the washes. some obviously blocked with rocks. We drove well traveled roads recently graded along teh washes.

Roads near Roots.jpg - 219kB

Attachment: 3-23Trip.kml (299kB)
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TMW - 4-5-2023 at 11:34 AM

If you go to the southeast there is a 2 track road that takes you to R. Las Tunas. From there the road, single track and 2 track is block from the hurricane in 2014. Baja Blanca used a guide to get to R. Las Tunas. Some motorcycles riders made it thru in 2016 or 2017 I think but had to carry their bikes over boulders to do so. This is the trail to Mission Guadalupe.

4x4abc - 4-5-2023 at 11:44 AM

26 53.9898, -112 32.0265 makes a lot more sense - that is the new connecting road

Cliffy - 4-5-2023 at 10:24 PM

OK here's a question-
When out in these far away God knows nowhere areas with roads just WHO drives the road grader or bull dozer? And where do they come from to do that work?
Always wondered that as I spent a lifetime flying airplanes and looking down on dirt roads in the middle of nowhere.

TMW - 4-5-2023 at 10:59 PM

Usually a local rancher has access to a bull dozer or grader and will clear the road to his place. Either the rancher owns it or a friend/neighbor or maybe the ejido may have access to one. Who takes care of the road usually varies from location to location is my understanding.

PaulW - 4-6-2023 at 07:06 AM

What a surprise after all the big storms. Yes, freshly graded roads with official new signs that were pretty comical - like no passing etc. All along the areas with bushes there was evidence for freshly trimmed bushes. This means the grader guy had a ground crew to clean up the roads. The most distant road we traveled it was graded to a ranch gate and that ranch had probably not been occupied for many years.

It is logical to speculate that the ranchers along these various roads had some significant influence to get roads upgraded.

surfhat - 4-6-2023 at 09:21 AM

I can't help myself from addressing the tree in the photo. A fig tree is my guess.

Back in the 70's my friends and I took a little offshoot from the Palo Escopeto Rd. from the San Jose Airport to the East Cape coast at Vinorama and found a magnificent fig tree whose roots flowed in and out of rock wall like they were liquid, and as smooth as glass.

We returned a couple of times over the years to enjoy the fig trees shade on a flat wave day with a packed lunch and a beer or two.

A slight ocean breeze would make itself up the arroyo to su i the shade which I guess was about ten miles.

I hope that specimen has survived. Whether it is still open like it was or has become fenced off private property by now, I don't know.

I would love to visit it again. Finding it would be a miracle after all these years.

I have some pics somewhere of us chilling [relatively] haha, under the shade and enjoying the pure nature of that magical spot. The silence of the bend in the arroyo was truly golden, just the desert birds a chirping and the flutter of the fig trees leaves in the breeze.

Back to reality my fellow nomads.

David K - 4-6-2023 at 11:51 AM

Yes, they are 'wild figs'... and they make for interesting photos the way they grow on cliffs.

geoffff - 4-6-2023 at 05:23 PM

Quote: Originally posted by PaulW

freshly graded roads with official new signs that were pretty comical - like no passing etc.

I was just laughing at that from my trip last month! Does someone get a $ cut for installing unnecessary new signs?

David K - 4-7-2023 at 10:04 AM

Indeed! They are amusing to come across and shows how proud they are of these dirt roads... When they are all you got, then why not dress them up?

geoffff - 4-8-2023 at 02:41 PM

There's a nice fig tree you can hike to, south of San Basilio.

surfhat - 4-9-2023 at 12:12 PM

Thanks Geoff.

Baja's fig trees are another of Mother Natures wonder. Bring them all on and I will try to find the one I am forever grateful for on the East Cape.

In such a water deprived environment, these fig trees are deserving of our respect and wonder that they can survive at all.

surabi - 4-9-2023 at 12:52 PM

One thing I can tell you is that appreciating ficus trees in the wild is great, but you certainly don't want one anywhere near your property. Those roots buckle walkways, break walls, eat their way into plumbing pipes, and if they produce figs, the birds and bats eat them, poop all over the place and the stuff is like gorilla glue- it even resists trying to powerwash it off.

surfhat - 4-10-2023 at 10:57 AM

Surabi, Ficus trees can be managed to avoid damaging sidewalks and building foundations. They do require special maintenance procedures but they are well worth a little extra attention for their abilities to provide great shade and even more importantly carbon capture like few other tree species can.

Santa Monica has been maintaining several thousand Ficus trees on their sidewalks for decades because the people rose up and demanded they not be ripped out.

Managing the Ficus roots with barriers helps to limit the root damage that is common for Ficus trees. Thinning the branches also helps limit uncontrolled root growth besides all the shedding these trees do on sidewalks. They do require cleaning up after, but are worth the effort.

My towns tree lovers have been fighting to preserve a number of Ficus trees downtown. One that had been neglected and deprived of the proper maintenance for too long had to be removed, but the others have had root barriers installed and their limbs trimmed, and now they are keepers.

It took a bit of resistance to convince my town that the extra maintenance was worth it. Thank you Santa Monica for the inspiration and proper maintenance procedures to save these beautiful and effective shade trees.

Ficus trees can be saved and effectively managed. Let them grow without proper maintenance and they can and will be destructive, no doubt. Form wise, they are beautiful and messy at the same time.

4x4abc - 4-10-2023 at 11:09 AM

Quote: Originally posted by surfhat

They do require special maintenance procedures but they are well worth a little extra attention for their abilities to provide great shade and even more importantly carbon capture like few other tree species can.

every plant does exactly that - capture carbon.
They are all built from carbon
not from stuff they suck out of the ground
except some trace minerals etc
they "eat" from the air
remember photo synthesis?
all life on this planet depends on solar energy
So, the Ficus is doing what all other trees/plants are doing - capturing carbon.
Some do is faster
some pack the carbon more dense
Iron Wood and Mesquite in Baja are a good example of dense and slow
palm trees are a good example of fast and less dense

[Edited on 4-10-2023 by 4x4abc]

surfhat - 4-11-2023 at 09:41 AM

All true 4x4, but Ficus trees are renowned for their abilities to capture more carbon than most other plants and that was my point in mentioning it at all. Glad we can agree on the value Ficus trees can offer to all of us nature lovers. A somewhat cool shady spot out of the sun is always appreciated when taking a break from whatever we are up to.

4x4abc - 4-11-2023 at 09:52 AM

Quote: Originally posted by surfhat

All true 4x4, but Ficus trees are renowned for their abilities to capture more carbon than most other plants and that was my point in mentioning it at all. Glad we can agree on the value Ficus trees can offer to all of us nature lovers. A somewhat cool shady spot out of the sun is always appreciated when taking a break from whatever we are up to.

right on!

https://www.single.earth/blog/which-trees-absorb-the-most-ca...

AKgringo - 4-11-2023 at 10:14 AM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

right on!

https://www.single.earth/blog/which-trees-absorb-the-most-ca...

I imagine that Eucalyptus trees would be pretty high on the list. They are relatively fast growing and dense! In the days of steam locomotives, the railroad imported them from Australia to start groves of fuel for the trans-continental railroad.

California didn't have any coal mines, and the Eucalyptus would outperform the native hardwoods in areas near the railroad hubs.

baja-chris - 4-11-2023 at 10:38 AM

I believe the Eucalyptus was originally imported to make railroad ties but it split apart so readily that it was useless, so into the fireboxes it went. For anyone who survived the Cedar fire (San Diego 2003) in Scripts Ranch can attest, it burns like crazy.

4x4abc - 4-11-2023 at 11:50 AM

Quote: Originally posted by baja-chris

I believe the Eucalyptus was originally imported to make railroad ties but it split apart so readily that it was useless, so into the fireboxes it went. For anyone who survived the Cedar fire (San Diego 2003) in Scripts Ranch can attest, it burns like crazy.

well, Eucalyptus contains a lot of oil - so it burns like crazy

David K - 4-11-2023 at 11:55 AM

Quote: Originally posted by baja-chris

How Rancho San Dieguito became Rancho Santa Fe (Santa Fe Railroad Company). They built Lake Hodges and a flume from there to the San Dieguito reservoir, for irrigation of the gum trees (what Australians call eucalyptus trees).
As Chris stated, the wood failed as railroad ties... an expensive lesson to learn!

Col. Ed Fletcher, an early San Diego County developer saw an opportunity to acquire this 'worthless' eucalyptus project and turn it into the (now 'world famous') exclusive home development. Fletcher also had developed nearby Solana Beach, to the west of the ranch.

I grew up in this area and we lived in RSF between '65 and '70. This story was taught us in the RSF public school (3rd or 4th grade, I think).

[Edited on 4-11-2023 by David K]

With apologies to PaulW....

AKgringo - 4-11-2023 at 05:54 PM

I will take my highjack a bit further. I have also heard that the railroad thought they could make ties out of Eucalyptus trees, but I don't buy it!

When the Southern Pacific Railroad constructed the line over the Sierra Nevada range, they were granted every other section (one square mile, or 640 acres) for ten miles each side of the track. Much of that land grant was virgin timber country and supplied far more select structural timber than they needed.

Why would they import an exotic tree that could not survive a hard frost, and spend twenty years or more growing them to a size suitable for milling ties, when they already had millions of board feet of valuable timber?

For what it's worth, the property I own in Nevada County was purchased from the Southern Pacific by my grandfather in the early 1940s.

[Edited on 4-12-2023 by AKgringo]

surfhat - 4-12-2023 at 10:43 AM

Thanks 4by4 for the tree list. Ficus was not even there. My bad. You good.

Ficus are beauties until they go where you don't want them to. Proper maintenance takes some extra effort.

Location, location, location.