BajaNomad - Your Suggested Edits for the Benchmark Maps 2nd edition Baja Atlas

Your Suggested Edits for the Benchmark Maps 2nd edition Baja Atlas

David K - 5-6-2023 at 04:26 PM

I came across a needed addition and recently sent it to the editors (it was the lobster village of Puerto Nuevo)... apologizing for missing that omission. The cities and highly touristy areas are just not my thing as I usually breeze through those areas to get to the soul of Baja!

IF you found an place that is missing from the Atlas, or a correction to the Atlas, please submit it here, or in a u2u, or email for Benchmark's consideration.

I was just happy to hear that a second, updated edition was already in the works. They also plan to send a field worker to confirm data.

Past submitted edits include:
*Campo Los Delfines location is Km. 127, an error from INEGI.
*San Felipe Municipality creation, shortly after the Atlas was published.
*Parallel route to Mission Santa María parallel to part of the way from Santa Ynez.
*Punta Quebrada location near B. Tortugas (from a Baja Nomad)
*Laguna Hanson area road corrections (from a Baja Nomad)
*The years of operation for the final site of the Comondú mission, should be 1736-1827.

Please share your findings so the next Atlas is even better and more accurate than the first!

Puerto Nuevo missing?

AKgringo - 5-6-2023 at 04:51 PM

If you are referring to the village north of Bahia Asumcion, it is on page 48 of my Benchmark Atlas. Is there another one, I know that some place names get used in multiple sites.

I drove through there last fall. I think I was the only tourist around there at the time.

geoffff - 5-7-2023 at 12:39 AM

2023 Notes:

At Agua Amarga, the road Benchmark shows is (mostly) blocked by a new fence. The current best track goes northwest along the southwest side of the fence to 29.0492, -113.7971 and then turns northeast. I also drove around the south end of the fence, but there wasn't really a road there.

-------

Benchmark shows KM markers along the road south from Bahia de los Angeles to San Francisquito. The Benchmark numbers might be the actual distance, but they do not match the (incorrectly placed) physical KM markers found along the road. For example, KM marker 89 is here at the orange dot. The discrepancy increases the further you go. I have some more examples in my notes.

And here is KM82:

-------

San Nicolas: There is a nice "beach road" (which is often just driving on the beach) which goes all the way east from San Nicolas to Punta el Pulpito. (26.5178, -111.4426) There is also a new inland road to El Carricito. Do not take this -- it is private.

-------

Minor detail in Ciudad Insurgentes: The east-west road at 25.2821, -111.7650 does not actually connect. The east branch ends at a mostly-fallen fence and ditch running north-south just west of the intersection. I made the mistake of driving over this anyway (I was impatient), and popped a tire!

-------

The road south of Rancho San Juan going to Comondu Viejo is thoroughly washed out at 26.2798, -111.7240 Cannot drive south from there.

-------

[Edited on 5-9-2023 by geoffff]

PaulW - 5-7-2023 at 08:35 AM

The last edit I sent directly to map staff the response was thanks but the final edit has been sent. That was many months ago. The result is I have not submitted more suggested edits.
I am waiting for the second edition to show up.

David K - 5-7-2023 at 09:34 AM

AK, let me check that on my PC. Just scanning stuff on my phone, now.

Geoffff, awesome. You know the kilometer points south of L.A. Bay came from your input before the first edition. The road between San Juan and Comondú Viejo was exactly the same for me in 2017. One kilometer past the ranch, the road crosses the arroyo and was gone. Just before the mission area it re-crosses the arroyo and was washed out... about a kilometer from the first crossing. I wonder what the road on south to San José Comondú is like? This was the main road to La Paz, in the 60s. The San Nicolas roads you mention (beach and private inland) don't sound like ones that should be in the Atlas?

Paul, I don't know who got your emails. Please send to me as I speak directly to the team who do the Baja Atlas. They are in a different state than the corporate office.

The second edition is in the future and they asked me to provide what I asked for in this post. To get more eyes on this, I also asked my Facebook groups the same.

Thank you for your interest!
Email to me or post your submissions.

[Edited on 5-7-2023 by David K]

David K - 5-7-2023 at 10:58 AM

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo

If you are referring to the village north of Bahia Asumcion, it is on page 48 of my Benchmark Atlas. Is there another one, I know that some place names get used in multiple sites.

I drove through there last fall. I think I was the only tourist around there at the time.

Hi AKgringo, no (that one is on the Atlas)... I am speaking of the lobster restaurant village between Rosarito Beach and Cantamar, in the northern state.
Thanks for asking!

PaulW - 5-7-2023 at 04:31 PM

Benchmark Baja Atlas
Wow, the first announcement came in the summer of 2021 as a request to submit edits and errors.
David was the one who made that request and he gave us contact email to do so. I followed up and was referred to the map guy.
He always thanked me for my input.

mtgoat666 - 5-7-2023 at 06:17 PM

Dk:
Lots of good map info in openstreetmap and google, where map info is crowd-sourced.

David K - 5-8-2023 at 07:31 AM

Thanks goat, what I am asking is, if any Nomads want to help make the 2nd edition even better and more accurate than the first, from their personal observations and travels.
Copying Google (which has always had incorrect or questionable map data) isn't something that I think Benchmark is interested in doing.

Map errors

AKgringo - 5-8-2023 at 08:07 AM

Back in the early 70s, my dad cleared a firebreak between our property and the adjoining BLM land. Parts of the break are accessible for any fire responders, but there are a few steep sections that you wouldn't want to try on anything less capable than his caterpillar!

I don't know if it was a human error, or an algorithm, but it shows up on some map searches as a named road that is an extension of a dead end road to the north, connecting to another actual (but private) road on my cousin's property.

David K - 5-8-2023 at 09:17 AM

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo

Back in the early 70s, my dad cleared a firebreak between our property and the adjoining BLM land. Parts of the break are accessible for any fire responders, but there are a few steep sections that you wouldn't want to try on anything less capable than his caterpillar!

I don't know if it was a human error, or an algorithm, but it shows up on some map searches as a named road that is an extension of a dead end road to the north, connecting to another actual (but private) road on my cousin's property.

Yes, and as geoffff pointed out on that road just north of Insurgetes, what looks like a 'through road' may have a 1/2 mile gap rendering it useless!
Thanks for your input!

Maps are only accurate on the day they were researched a hurricane (like Kay) can render any road useless until it is repaired. I just heard from a Nomad who drove between Comondú and San Javier. He reported that road had a lot of 4WD sections and washouts, since I drove it in 2017. Then, just the steep grades up and down from the mesa between Palo Chino and El Horno needed extra traction and slow driving... and was smoothed out after that trip, I read.

Thanks to all of you with your input. If I learn when the 2nd edition is planned to be published, and I am allowed to say, you will be informed.

geoffff - 5-8-2023 at 11:27 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Geoffff, awesome. You know the kilometer points south of L.A. Bay came from your input before the first edition.

I was wondering about that. However, their final map doesn't seem to match the numbers I gave you, at least not past Campo San Rafael:

28.9456 -113.5602 pavement in BOLA
28.9432 -113.5567 000 (Y in road)
28.9361 -113.5519 001
28.9267 -113.5528 002?
28.9182 -113.5541 003?
28.9113 -113.5472 004
28.8900 -113.5315 007?
28.8086 -113.5293 016?
28.7904 -113.5327 018?
28.7709 -113.5276 020
28.7193 -113.4841 027
28.7149 -113.4763 028?
28.7090 -113.4693 029
28.7074 -113.4589 030
28.7019 -113.4526 031
28.6821 -113.4335 034?
28.6785 -113.4229 035
28.6788 -113.4027 037?
28.6781 -113.3925 038?
28.6771 -113.3821 039
28.6759 -113.3501 042?
28.6722 -113.3406 043?
28.6721 -113.3296 044
28.6619 -113.3124 046?
28.6584 -113.3035 047
28.6527 -113.2949 048?
28.6466 -113.2860 049
28.6394 -113.2803 050?
28.6312 -113.2747 051?
28.6287 -113.2668 052?
28.6303 -113.2468 054?
28.6337 -113.2374 055
28.6305 -113.2268 056?
28.6312 -113.2177 057?
28.6335 -113.2080 058?
28.6355 -113.1986 059?
28.6345 -113.1782 061?
28.6341 -113.1689 062?
28.6172 -113.1514 065
28.6122 -113.1443 066
28.5815 -113.1346 070?
28.5782 -113.1288 071?
28.5720 -113.1224 072
28.5641 -113.1279 073?
28.5572 -113.1354 074
28.5509 -113.1437 075?
28.5413 -113.1511 076?
28.5322 -113.1566 077? fallen
28.5161 -113.1596 080
28.5007 -113.1647 082?
28.4808 -113.1692 085? fallen
28.4710 -113.1793 086?
28.4620 -113.1813 087?
28.4489 -113.1829 088?
28.4341 -113.1738 089?
28.4268 -113.1686 090?
28.4210 -113.1587 091?
28.4164 -113.1483 092?
28.4121 -113.1405 093?
28.4041 -113.1347 094
28.3970 -113.1287 095?
28.3866 -113.1248 097
28.3800 -113.1191 098
28.3762 -113.1113 099?
28.3750 -113.1012 100?
28.3642 -113.0733 103?
28.3485 -113.0219 108?

Here are my KM marker locations overlaid on the Benchmark map. Click images to enlarge:

geoffff - 5-8-2023 at 11:34 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Yes, and as geoffff pointed out on that road just north of Insurgetes, what looks like a 'through road' may have a 1/2 mile gap rendering it useless!

In this case, the gap is small -- a recent change, perhaps? Worth looking at the satellite imagery (25.2821, -111.7650):

geoffff - 5-8-2023 at 11:39 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

The San Nicolas roads you mention (beach and private inland) don't sound like ones that should be in the Atlas?

I would put the beach road going east from San Nicolas into the atlas - especially since Benchmark already has the east part of this road in there (26.5243,-111.4646). The beach road is not private.

-- Geoff

geoffff - 5-8-2023 at 11:45 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

The road between San Juan and Comondú Viejo was exactly the same for me in 2017. One kilometer past the ranch, the road crosses the arroyo and was gone. Just before the mission area it re-crosses the arroyo and was washed out... about a kilometer from the first crossing. I wonder what the road on south to San José Comondú is like?

The road looks to be in good shape (if not traveled for a long time), but I suspect it is washed out at each additional arroyo it crosses.

You can see the road is still in good shape heading south from Comondu Viejo:

Quote: Originally posted by David K

This was the main road to La Paz, in the 60s.

Wow! It's not an easy road, especially just north of the ranch.

geoffff - 5-8-2023 at 11:49 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

Dk:
Lots of good map info in openstreetmap and google, where map info is crowd-sourced.

Unlike Openstreetmaps, Google isn't crowdsourced as far as I know. Google's map is copyrighted. Benchmark would be stung hard if they tried copying it. Despite being crowdsourced, I don't believe they can legally copy Openstreetmaps either!

[Edited on 5-8-2023 by geoffff]

David K - 5-8-2023 at 12:58 PM

I remember in 1966 that there was a steep grade just south of your photo, heading to the twin Comondú towns. We got a case of 'vapor lock' on that grade (it was summer). The 327 V8 Wagoneer with AC just wouldn't start.
Along comes a much older, Willys-Overland station wagon, driven by a local, with his son. Since the main highway to La Paz here was just one lane wide, low range 4WD on this part, and no way around on a mountain grade, the Willys driver offered to assist.
He opened the Wagoneer hood, and was really overwhelmed by how full the engine compartment was, compared to his 4 banger with plenty of space under his hood!

Anyway, the Wagoneer fired up once again thanks to the friendly and helpful Willys man.

Benchmark wants to hear from us

David K - 5-10-2023 at 11:47 AM

I am amazed at your work with the kilometer posts south of L.A. Bay, Geoffff!

I will make sure Benchmark sees this... I just saw it today and didn't know I missed seeing the whole thread before today! I will forward it to Benchmark now. So far, the input from Nomads and my Facebook group members has been great and Benchmark emailed me twice... Here they are:

[Edited on 5-11-2023 by David K]

geoffff - 5-10-2023 at 09:01 PM

Regarding the KM markers south of Bahia de los Angeles.

All the KM markers in my list were ones I spotted by going back over my georeferenced dash-cam images. These images were from a March 2019 road trip, for which my cameras (front and rear) took photos once every 10 seconds.

I put "?" in my list next to markers for which I couldn't read the actual number on the marker. The marker may have been oriented wrong, partially obscured, or too distant. But in each case, a marker was there.

Some markers have fallen, such as km89 (as of 2023). I have no reason to believe anyone would have bothered to move a marker to a new location.

You will see that the markers in my list are reasonably consistently spaced, so I presume their placement was intentional, not random error.

Something odd happens between km71 and km89, where the markers (while consistently spaced) don't seem to be 1km apart. My guess is that the road used to follow a different route here, and they didn't bother moving/updating all the subsequent km markers when the road was re-routed to a longer path here.

[Edited on 5-11-2023 by geoffff]

geoffff - 5-10-2023 at 09:06 PM

I've lost track of these images over the years, but I could find them again if needed.

--------------

Here are some example images:

Two images for KM4

--------------

KM20

4x4abc - 5-10-2023 at 10:55 PM

Quote: Originally posted by geoffff

Quote: Originally posted by David K

The San Nicolas roads you mention (beach and private inland) don't sound like ones that should be in the Atlas?

I would put the beach road going east from San Nicolas into the atlas - especially since Benchmark already has the east part of this road in there (26.5243,-111.4646). The beach road is not private.

-- Geoff

Cerro Ninguno does not exist

4x4abc - 5-10-2023 at 11:05 PM

Quote: Originally posted by geoffff

Here are my KM marker locations overlaid on the Benchmark map. Click images to enlarge:

the correct name is Llano la Laguna
Cerro la Laguna right next to it is a good indicator

Llano.jpg - 166kB

the Arroyo leading to Las Animas is San Pedro - not San Pedros

David K - 5-11-2023 at 06:59 AM

Good eye, Harald... Since the base map used is the Mexican government INEGI maps, are these 'errors' also on them? I will take a look as I am one of those who bought your topo map package.
:light:

4x4abc - 5-11-2023 at 08:13 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Good eye, Harald... Since the base map used is the Mexican government INEGI maps, are these 'errors' also on them? I will take a look as I am one of those who bought your topo map package.
:light:

I know how much you love INEGI
that's why I checked before I posted
the names pointed out are either non existent on the INEGI maps or they are correct
H12C62 for Arroyo San Pedro
G12A68 for Cerro Ninguno

Caltopo is the quickest way to check:
https://caltopo.com/map.html#ll=28.72681,-113.35043&z=15...

[Edited on 5-11-2023 by 4x4abc]

David K - 5-11-2023 at 08:24 AM

I was trying to plug your product!

'Cerro Ninguno' is showing as Cerro Bola: https://caltopo.com/map.html#ll=26.51207,-111.56891&z=15...

4x4abc - 5-11-2023 at 09:22 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

I was trying to plug your product!

'Cerro Ninguno' is showing as Cerro Bola: https://caltopo.com/map.html#ll=26.51207,-111.56891&z=15...

Cerro Bola is on the other side of the road

there is a hill allright where the Cerro Ninguno marker is - only it has no name (like most mountains in Baja)

thank you for plugging my map set!

geoffff - 5-11-2023 at 09:43 AM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

Cerro Ninguno does not exist

Hah! Ironic name

Harald, they should hire you to do a quick pass looking at every part of the atlas!

geoffff - 5-11-2023 at 09:51 AM

Here's a GPX file I made of the KM markers I spotted in 2019:

km-markers-south-of-BOLA.gpx

[Edited on 5-11-2023 by geoffff]

4x4abc - 5-11-2023 at 10:29 AM

Quote: Originally posted by geoffff

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

Cerro Ninguno does not exist

Hah! Ironic name

Harald, they should hire you to do a quick pass looking at every part of the atlas!

I would very much like that.

4x4abc - 5-11-2023 at 10:48 AM

working with place names for many years I found something interesting
only if there was a need for naming a mountain, or an Arroyo, or something else - only then they would be named.
That translates to the following:
if an area has a lot of named Arroyos, mountains, Mesas - then there was significant human activity (hunting, growing, traveling)
if an area has majestic mountains and gorgeous canyons, but none of them are named - then it was an area where humans, did not hunt, travel or live.

A very large number of places have travel related names (Cuesta, Pie, Portezuelo, Potrero, Puerta, Puerto, Las Juntas)
If you want to find Camino Real without Harry Crosby, look for "La Cuesta Vieja", "Mesa el Potrero", "Arroyo el Pie de la Cuesta", "Tinaja de Los Frailes" etc
even if the INEGI maps do not show a trail where you find those names - zoom in on Google Earth and there will be a trail
I guarantee it

too bad Crosby did not have Google Earth

PaulW - 5-11-2023 at 11:11 AM

Way to much concentration on KM marking. Most of us ignore them and concentrate on roads and places.
Move on.
More importantly tell us about misplaced roads, road labels, and places. That is one the major issues with INEGI which is the basis of all
versions of maps regardless of who printed them or put them on a GPS map file.

David K - 5-11-2023 at 02:46 PM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

Quote: Originally posted by David K

I was trying to plug your product!

'Cerro Ninguno' is showing as Cerro Bola: https://caltopo.com/map.html#ll=26.51207,-111.56891&z=15...

Cerro Bola is on the other side of the road

there is a hill allright where the Cerro Ninguno marker is - only it has no name (like most mountains in Baja)

thank you for plugging my map set!

Anytime!
Let's see how I got Cerro Bola from what I though (at a glance) was the Cerro Ninguno location:

I put the + right on top of the triangle for Cerro Ninguno (using the digital Atlas) and I get this GPS: 26.5131, -111.5714

If you plug that GPS into Caltopo or any digital INEGI map, you get:

The EXACT same mountain but called Cerro Bola

David K - 5-11-2023 at 02:56 PM

Quote: Originally posted by PaulW

Way to much concentration on KM marking. Most of us ignore them and concentrate on roads and places.
Move on.
More importantly tell us about misplaced roads, road labels, and places. That is one the major issues with INEGI which is the basis of all
versions of maps regardless of who printed them or put them on a GPS map file.

I think not, unless you are GPS/Map nerd (like us in this thread)!

With km. markers, you don't need GPS or even an accurate odometer.
If you're looking for a turnoff between Km. 89 and Km. 90 (on the Benchmark map), you just drive to the first posted km. sign of the two and begin looking for your road. A kilometer is only 0.62 of a mile long.
Even bad odometers will be pretty close in the 0.0 to 0.6 span.
If your road is in between the two, then only 0.3 is passed for 1/2 km. on your odometer (if your road is really faint of brush obscured).

No need for lots of math or electronics... just find that road to your secret beach off the highway, fast and easy! Viva the kilometer points on the Benchmark Atlas!

As for the rest of your comments... I think we can do it all... I know I am not bothered by helping make a better map. No need to drop one item to have the others. Let's fix all issues!

[Edited on 5-11-2023 by David K]

PaulW - 5-11-2023 at 03:26 PM

For the main highways what we now have with David's KM list is more than adequate for everyone's use. The hiccups of missing markers and errors are easy to deal with.
I was a great improvement of Atlas vs Almanac.

When you leave the highways the maps count and they should be better. That is most important.
Good paper maps and backed up with electronic maps make it best of all. I have been using my GPS maps with highway KMs noted since about 2004 or 5 and have not noted any issues I could not resolve.

The KM markers in the back country were lost years ago.
Remember the days when Bruce Barber gave directions along Morelia/Saltito, and east/west valley roads with a list like David's with KMs and turn locations. Now days maps work but KM do not work off the highways.

mtgoat666 - 5-11-2023 at 04:52 PM

Quote: Originally posted by PaulW

Agree. Nice to have a km data for intersections (or infrequent major landmarks), but anything more is clutter.

David K - 5-12-2023 at 04:45 AM

Quote: Originally posted by PaulW

For the main highways what we now have with David's KM list is more than adequate for everyone's use. The hiccups of missing markers and errors are easy to deal with.
I was a great improvement of Atlas vs Almanac.

When you leave the highways the maps count and they should be better. That is most important.
Good paper maps and backed up with electronic maps make it best of all. I have been using my GPS maps with highway KMs noted since about 2004 or 5 and have not noted any issues I could not resolve.

The KM markers in the back country were lost years ago.
Remember the days when Bruce Barber gave directions along Morelia/Saltito, and east/west valley roads with a list like David's with KMs and turn locations. Now days maps work but KM do not work off the highways.

Good morning Paul,
True that kilometer markers on dirt roads seem to be less stable. They are on concrete posts rather than metal signs. They are also rare with the road south of L.A. Bay being the odd one of just a couple having them. I think the road from San Javier to Hwy. 53/ Santo Domingo, is another... I have not driven that one, so unless someone here can confirm, I just trust the Mexican government map source Benchmark uses on that.

The L.A. Bay south road was traveled by me twice in 2017 and there were no kilometer posts then. It was 'geoffff' in 2019 who recorded them. As you say, they seem to get knocked over, making them useless for navigating. But they are approx. 1 km. apart and too heavy to steal, so they lay there.

Back to the post subject. Please indicate where errors or omissions are on the 2021 Atlas so the next one will be even better. I realize Hurricane Kay (last September) really messed up roads in 2/3 of the peninsula. What were 'dirt highways' (like the road south of L.A. Bay) became rutted, washed out rough roads. Things change and Mexico's highway departments are probably underfunded to deal with repairs or regrading in a timely matter, taking years to return the road to its former glory. That said, if you think the road classifications, as shown, should be updated, let me know.

Here's an edit suggestion I got on my Facebook group page that may be of interest to Nomads:
Show the original Coco's Corner (1987-2021) as a historic point-of-interest.

The new Coco's Corner (April 2021+, at Las Arrastras) continues to be open for business following Coco's death on August 30, 2021.

Thanks Paul, Geoff, and others, for you valuable input!

PaulW - 5-12-2023 at 08:23 AM

I find it useful to see abandoned places on maps. I do not want to forget such places so I like the reminder. That is also be true for some back country roads and mines as well.