BajaNomad

Federal zone violations in Baja Sur

john68 - 6-13-2023 at 08:02 PM

Anyone have any knowledge of recent citations for federal zone violations in BCS? We have received a citation for our home in Los Barriles and we're told all owners of beachfront property in BCS will get one.

The federal zone is the 20 meters measured from high tide inland. Without a concession, no building is allowed in the FZ. We're told that the Sea of Cortez has risen recently (according to the World Bank, about 2.5 inches in the last 20 years), raising the high tide mark and moving the federal zone inland.

Our citation is a ZOFEMAT form and is signed by a person whose title is "trabajadora".

Friends in La Paz have not been cited.

The whole business sounds strange.




SFandH - 6-14-2023 at 02:01 AM

Homeowners in Playa El Burro on Bahia Concepcion are having fed. zone violation problems. There is no question their houses are in violation.

Same in the Los Naranjos community, also on Bahia Concepcion.

pacificobob - 6-14-2023 at 05:37 AM

Perhaps if the now famous palm tree research , available right here on Baja Nomad, was cited the violation could be reversed.

mtgoat666 - 6-14-2023 at 06:14 AM

Shorelines are not static. Erosion and sea level rise will cause shorelines (high tide line) to move inland.

SFandH - 6-14-2023 at 07:07 AM

I know of two people who have had to take apart and relocate their Bahia Concepcion waterfront houses in the past five years and move them further back. One was a wood-framed house, and the other a "palapa style" house. It wasn't because the shoreline had moved; they were both built partially in the federal zone.



[Edited on 6-14-2023 by SFandH]

JDCanuck - 6-14-2023 at 08:34 AM

20 meters from high tide is awfully close. Weren't they concerned about storm surges? Who would build something permanent that close without considering seasonal disruptions?

SFandH - 6-14-2023 at 08:38 AM

Bahia Concepcion is calm water. Most of the popular beaches have minimal wave action. Take a look at Playa El Burro. Some foundations get wet at high tide. These houses have weathered hurricanes and tropical storms.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Playa+El+Burro/@26.7301647...



[Edited on 6-14-2023 by SFandH]

Don Pisto - 6-14-2023 at 09:45 AM

Isn’t there an option of paying a fee to have a house on federal zone? I know several people on both alfonsinas and papas that pay a premium that allegedly goes to the government for this use…….allegedly that is.

tomieharder - 6-14-2023 at 10:10 AM

Quote: Originally posted by john68  
Anyone have any knowledge of recent citations for federal zone violations in BCS? We have received a citation for our home in Los Barriles and we're told all owners of beachfront property in BCS will get one.

The federal zone is the 20 meters measured from high tide inland. Without a concession, no building is allowed in the FZ. We're told that the Sea of Cortez has risen recently (according to the World Bank, about 2.5 inches in the last 20 years), raising the high tide mark and moving the federal zone inland.

Our citation is a ZOFEMAT form and is signed by a person whose title is "trabajadora".

Friends in La Paz have not been cited.

The whole business sounds strange.


If you don't have any building structures in the ZOFEMAT, you can file to acquire a concesión rustica in the ZOFEMAT.

The actual mean high tide is irrelevant, so drop the global warming arguments. Surveyors come along every once in a while and move the ZOFEMAT line in the official land plats. You need to get the official plat map and find where the legally defined line is. The line could move either landward or seaward. If you live on an alluvial plain and rainstorms move a lot of sediment to the coast, mean high tide could move father away from the original shoreline.

tomieharder - 6-14-2023 at 10:15 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Shorelines are not static. Erosion and sea level rise will cause shorelines (high tide line) to move inland.


There are places all over the world which were known in ancient times to be harbors and are now wheat fields. Erosion also builds land as mountains erode into the seas.

surabi - 6-14-2023 at 01:42 PM

We aren't in ancient times and your denial of rising oceans due to man-made climate change is absurd.

tomieharder - 6-14-2023 at 04:25 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Sarah  
We aren't in ancient times and your denial of rising oceans due to man-made climate change is absurd.


RFClark - 6-14-2023 at 08:07 PM

S,

The sea level has risen about 150M in the last 12K or so years you’re beating a dead horse GFE. The land along some of the coasts is sinking. Except for places like Naples where it’s rising a lot (10’s of meters). We live on a geologically active planet. Get used to it GFE.

The last time the ice melted the sea level went about 15M higher than it is today.

SFandH - 6-14-2023 at 08:44 PM

The Palm Tree thread is for the, IMHO, very tedious and boring sea-level discussion.

This is about the federal zone and its enforcement.

RFClark - 6-14-2023 at 09:06 PM

Tell Surbai to go preach her religion there.

On the topic here. There are a number of campos south of San Felipe where the water comes to the base of the cliff and the houses ate built on the edge of the cliff. To my knowledge there has never been a problem.

[Edited on 6-15-2023 by RFClark]

surabi - 6-14-2023 at 10:04 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark  
Tell Surbai to go preach her religion there.

[Edited on 6-15-2023 by RFClark]


My religion? Both you and tomie felt it necessary to put forth your "the climate's always been changing" man-made climate change denials here.

surabi - 6-14-2023 at 10:06 PM

Quote: Originally posted by tomieharder  




Where'd you get that photo, tomie? That's my photo, taken with my camera, of a copy of an original piece of art, which I have never posted here. Now you're stealing other people's stuff? Stuff you don't even understand the meaning of?

[Edited on 6-15-2023 by surabi]

mtgoat666 - 6-15-2023 at 08:23 AM

Quote: Originally posted by surabi  
Quote: Originally posted by tomieharder  




Where'd you get that photo, tomie? That's my photo, taken with my camera, of a copy of an original piece of art, which I have never posted here. Now you're stealing other people's stuff? Stuff you don't even understand the meaning of?

[Edited on 6-15-2023 by surabi]


Tomie hard-on spends much of his time stalking nomads (and imaginary nomads) on the internet. Sad! And creepy!

tomieharder - 6-15-2023 at 12:03 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Jack Cooper Mutchler  


Tomie spends much of his time paying back nomads who like to call others names from the safety of their computer


If I can find you, I can find Sarah. Come to terms Coop. Stop calling people names and thinking you are anonymous.

How does it feel to have your own skin in the game? Don't like it?

GO POUND SAND.

tomieharder - 6-15-2023 at 12:05 PM

Quote: Originally posted by surabi  
Quote: Originally posted by tomieharder  




Where'd you get that photo, tomie?


Greater minds would wonder. You're the genus. Figure it out.

tomieharder - 6-15-2023 at 12:10 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark  
T
On the topic here. There are a number of campos south of San Felipe where the water comes to the base of the cliff and the houses ate built on the edge of the cliff. To my knowledge there has never been a problem.

[Edited on 6-15-2023 by RFClark]


There is a reason for that. The federal zone ends at the inflection point where the land has an angle of 30 degrees from the horizontal. Since a cliff has an angle of 90 degrees, the federal zone ends at the base of the cliff.

Isn't it amazing that our resident genius, mtgoat does not know this? All he can do is shout "Global Warming" and call it a day. He's really our resident putz.

RFClark - 6-15-2023 at 12:34 PM

👍👍👍

mtgoat666 - 6-15-2023 at 03:33 PM

Quote: Originally posted by tomieharder  
Quote: Originally posted by RFClark  
T
On the topic here. There are a number of campos south of San Felipe where the water comes to the base of the cliff and the houses ate built on the edge of the cliff. To my knowledge there has never been a problem.

[Edited on 6-15-2023 by RFClark]


There is a reason for that. The federal zone ends at the inflection point where the land has an angle of 30 degrees from the horizontal. Since a cliff has an angle of 90 degrees, the federal zone ends at the base of the cliff.

Isn't it amazing that our resident genius, mtgoat does not know this? All he can do is shout "Global Warming" and call it a day. He's really our resident putz.


Fed zone applies to first 20 meters of transitable land. The 30 degree ‘rule’ is evaluated differently by inspectors, if at all

tomieharder - 6-15-2023 at 05:54 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
[

Fed zone applies to first 20 meters of transitable land. The 30 degree ‘rule’ is evaluated differently by inspectors, if at all


Nope! Stop Googling real estate agent pages and just read the law, Coop.

https://www.gob.mx/profepa/acciones-y-programas/que-es-la-zo...

What is the point of giving out bad information just to try to appear knowledgeable? We all know you know nada.

john68 - 6-24-2023 at 10:51 AM

to the top.

bajaric - 6-24-2023 at 01:24 PM

Last year there was a house at the South Campos that was found to have partially encroached on the exclusion zone. On a bluff. The owners were ordered to remove a concrete wall.

In Mexico the playas belong to the people, though some developers seem to think otherwise.

mjs - 6-24-2023 at 07:58 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bajaric  
Last year there was a house at the South Campos that was found to have partially encroached on the exclusion zone. On a bluff. The owners were ordered to remove a concrete wall.

In Mexico the playas belong to the people, though some developers seem to think otherwise.


If we're talking about the same house (friends of ours) that was the result of August storms that eroded a majority of the beach and their original retaining wall and patio. Rebuilding the wall resulted in a new survey and a revised high tide line.

surfhat - 6-25-2023 at 11:53 AM

I can't help but be amazed that the hotel, home? built on the rocks at Cerritos was ever built.

Some major cha ching$ had to have been involved.

I do remember the poles there from a former fish shack? on that rock promontory but have never seen photos of what that looked like in a previous incarnation.

I recall some mention years ago somewhere of cartel influence with permitting in the Federal Zone that few would be able to accomplish without some inside help.

My everlasting memory of Cerritos was on huge swell when everywhere else was closed out and the outside break was the only spot that could provide a makable wave or even a paddle out.

The crowd on the beach included all the heavies, haha, from the East Cape and the local Todos regulars. The only hope for getting outside was sticking as close to the rocks as possible and having a break in the constantly bombing sets just enough to make it outside across the outside reef zone.

Sam from Oceanside challenged me to give it a go if he made it out. He was riding a 9' plus gun and somehow made it. There might have been one or two others at the most who made it out while the hundred on the beach could only wish they had the same luck.

Somehow on my 7"6 I made it out and joined Sam and no one else for a few Waimea type waves. I have never surfed the Islands but looking into those thick beyond belief peaks throwing over reminded me of Waimea.

I managed to drop into and ride a handful of waves before then and wondering how I could get back to the beach through the close out, top to bottom double to triple overhead barreling shore break coming back at me as a left.

Getting blasted was the only way back to the beach.

That swell was a once in a lifetime experience for me. I am sure other swells have hit since then and I wonder how the structure, hotel, private home? on the rocks has dealt with massive waves in the decades since.

The view would be hard to beat during a giant swell. The Federal Zone exists for a reason except when money and influence overcomes common sense. Then again, any entity that can get permits in the Federal Zone can easily afford the repairs that could come with messing with Mother Nature.

It is undeniably a million dollar view for the owners. I imagine being able to stay there during a giant swell would be the show of shows for any surfers, or non-surfers alike.