BajaNomad

New Review of the Todos Santos PDU (water usage vs supply)

RFClark - 6-30-2023 at 12:48 PM

https://journaldelpacifico.com/blog/issues/jdp_summer2023.pd...



IMG_4320.jpeg - 120kB

Lee - 6-30-2023 at 06:54 PM

Sobering.


JDCanuck - 7-1-2023 at 07:02 AM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark  
https://journaldelpacifico.com/blog/issues/jdp_summer2023.pd...





Seems to be the #1 unresolved issue wherever you go in Baja. Continuously declining aquifer levels and increasingly hard water supplies. Since municipalities seem to be unable or unwilling to deal with it, seems to be yet another issue to be planned for by individuals as you build or buy.
Least ecologically disruptive solution I have found is atmospheric water generators, but the one drawback is a reliable power supply to run them.
Another use for solar power surpluses?

AKgringo - 7-1-2023 at 07:33 AM

Is de-salinization on a small scale practical? I have no experience using water from that sort of system, and I wonder what the result is in terms of water quality, and how much waste concentrates are generated.

SFandH - 7-1-2023 at 07:36 AM

Holy mackerel! I looked through the advertising brochure and am wondering when Todos Santos was moved to coastal Orange County CA.

Glad I got to know the area when Cerritos was ejido property, and nobody lived there. When Shut-up Franks was the only gringo business, and Frank was there. When San Pedrito had palapas for $3 a night, and the circular palapa roofed restaurant/bar was open.

It was a wonderful place.





[Edited on 7-1-2023 by SFandH]

tiotomasbcs - 7-1-2023 at 07:24 PM

Todos Santos is trying hard to repel fast growth w/o regards to water, power, trash issues.....but Big Money is moving in! Still a good place to live. I've been here since early 90s and our core community is working to keep it Alive and culturally enjoyable! IMHO

surabi - 7-1-2023 at 07:35 PM

I really wish you guys lots of luck trying to combat the growth. My daughter lives in T.S.

Where I live, on the mainland, the growth is rampant and unchecked. The wells are almost empty and even though I paid my water bill for the year in January, they haven't sent water to my area since mid-April- I have had to buy pipas. 3 days ago, we lost the electric for 24 hrs, and again for almost that long yesterday because of all the people using fans and blasting the AC.

Yet they just keep letting people built more hotels and more houses and put in swimming pools. It's insane and corrupt.

[Edited on 7-2-2023 by surabi]

JDCanuck - 7-1-2023 at 09:05 PM

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo  
Is de-salinization on a small scale practical? I have no experience using water from that sort of system, and I wonder what the result is in terms of water quality, and how much waste concentrates are generated.


AKGringo: I looked at that and it seemed its big problem was the concentrated brine discharges. What do you do with it without causing more destruction? On boats the effect would be minor, but any land based system would cause problems on discharges. Softeners add salt to the effluent and create even higher water use for back flushing and rinse cycles. RO systems...about double the water use and a lot of filters to change out.
Then i saw how much byproduct distilled water was produced by my 1 1/2 ton air conditioner (about 7 gal per day under best conditions) and started thinking atmospheric water generation. If you have a readily available surplus of solar or wind energy, why not put that to use producing distilled water as the natural systems do and have done in the past millennia under previous civilizations?

RFClark - 7-1-2023 at 10:06 PM

AK,

You need AC anyway and the humidity this time of year adds 10-15 Gal/day to our gray water system. We’re set up to collect and drink the AC water if necessary. It all runs on solar too.

We're currently using about 3500 gal/month with the gray water system running the last 2 weeks and construction. July will be the first full month for gray water recycling. I’ll report how we’re doing in August.

[Edited on 7-2-2023 by RFClark]

surabi - 7-1-2023 at 10:32 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark  


We're currently using about 3500 gal/month with the gray water system running the last 2 weeks and construction. July will be the first full month for gray water recycling. I’ll report how we’re doing in August.

[Edited on 7-2-2023 by RFClark]


Construction definitely sucks up water if they are mixing cement. But I hope that is not going to be your average water consumption going forward. I am only one person, so you can double it for the two of you, but I use 3500 LITRES of water in about 2-3 weeks. And less if I am being conservative.

JDCanuck - 7-2-2023 at 06:49 AM

I am only one person, so you can double it for the two of you, but I use 3500 LITRES of water in about 2-3 weeks. And less if I am being conservative.

In the few months we spent in Baja, we used 6-8000 liters per month for two of us being very careful on water use without using any of that for drinking or cooking. We purchased bottled water for all potable uses.
There are systems that will produce potable water from atmospheric water generation, they tend to run about 2-3 times the cost of a similar sized air conditioner. It might be cheaper to collect all non-potable water in a supply cistern and then install a small RO system to produce potable water.

At the bottom of this web page are 5 available atmospheric potable water generators. Genaq produces multiple residential and commercial/industrial sized systems, while H20Machine does a residential sized one for 4000 USD.

https://h2omachine.com/

We have ordered a small condensing 1000w maximum dehumidifier to test out that runs a bit cheaper than an AC unit for non-potable water production only. It will use our excess solar capacity to reduce hardness in the cistern. At our place on the Baja Pacific, we have very high humidity, exceptionally strong year round solar availability, and also much higher than normal year round breezes. When you combine all those factors, we should be able to come up with a relatively inexpensive method of providing all our water needs in the future without relying on purchased well water or trucked in water.


[Edited on 7-2-2023 by JDCanuck]

surabi - 7-2-2023 at 11:01 AM

I like the idea of the atmospheric water generation. I'm going to look into it. It's very humid where I live, too. I don't care about the water being potable. I have a low tech system for that. After years of dealing with those ridiculously heavy garafons, I finally got a Berkey. Just pour tap water in the top, clean, filtered drinking water comes out the bottom.

My heaviest water usage is for my extensive gardens in the dry season. I'm a quick shower person, wash dishes once a day, don't flush the toilet just for pee, and have about 1 load of laundry a week. While all of my grey water is routed to various areas of the garden closest to the house, I don't produce enough grey water as one person to water most of the garden.

surfhat - 7-2-2023 at 11:58 AM

Since most of us prefer to live as close to the ocean as we can afford, haha, and for the inherent cooling reasons as we can, these atmospheric water collectors appear to be the best choice of what is available at the present time.

Supplying our own water source is optimal in a desert climate that we all love. The big plus is knowing we are not a part of draining the limited underground aquifers.

The pressures of big money backed developing doesn't appear to care about sustaining the all important aquifers that matter, or should matter, to everyone who gives a sheet about future generations having the same experience we were all blessed to have due to our timing.

As history has shown, many of us are modern versions of the dinosaurs, some obviously more than others. haha

Thank you Baja Nomad for providing a source for all to spout their own valued and sometimes valueless questionable opinions.

How boring would it be without the detractors referencing some opinionated and non-science backed sources, when 98% of the worlds scientists offer their reliable and educated views?

Oh, of course, the overwhelming strong majority 98%, of these scientists are just paid for their opinions. ?????

"You see what you want to see".

"You hear what you want to hear."

Harry Nilson fifty years ago with his "The Point" was so prophetic.

History can teach us all valuable lessons, if we listen. Some do not and will never. \

Happy 4th to all who remember what this holiday is really about when our democracy is threatened like few times in our history.

Deniers are going to deny until their last breaths that cannot come too soon.

Over and out.










surabi - 7-2-2023 at 02:06 PM

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

RFClark - 7-2-2023 at 09:49 PM

WG,

Look at the facts. China is over 50% of the problem. Are you a “if California just bans IC engines, gas appliances and cows it will solve the problem” people?

Got solar, EVs and recycle your gray water? Talk’s cheap! Walk the walk too!

soulpatch - 7-3-2023 at 06:30 PM

Are you catching rainwater?

One of my clients here in San Miguel de Allende just installed 2-10,000 liter tanks and last night I estimated we had at least a 100gmp running off the roof for a solid 30 minutes and then a repeat of that a few hours later.

Finally,rain

Quote: Originally posted by surabi  
I like the idea of the atmospheric water generation. I'm going to look into it. It's very humid where I live, too. I don't care about the water being potable. I have a low tech system for that. After years of dealing with those ridiculously heavy garafons, I finally got a Berkey. Just pour tap water in the top, clean, filtered drinking water comes out the bottom.

My heaviest water usage is for my extensive gardens in the dry season. I'm a quick shower person, wash dishes once a day, don't flush the toilet just for pee, and have about 1 load of laundry a week. While all of my grey water is routed to various areas of the garden closest to the house, I don't produce enough grey water as one person to water most of the garden.

pacificobob - 7-3-2023 at 06:50 PM

Quote: Originally posted by surfhat  
Since most of us prefer to live as close to the ocean as we can afford, haha, and for the inherent cooling reasons as we can, these atmospheric water collectors appear to be the best choice of what is available at the present time.

Supplying our own water source is optimal in a desert climate that we all love. The big plus is knowing we are not a part of draining the limited underground aquifers.

The pressures of big money backed developing doesn't appear to care about sustaining the all important aquifers that matter, or should matter, to everyone who gives a sheet about future generations having the same experience we were all blessed to have due to our timing.

As history has shown, many of us are modern versions of the dinosaurs, some obviously more than others. haha

Thank you Baja Nomad for providing a source for all to spout their own valued and sometimes valueless questionable opinions.

How boring would it be without the detractors referencing some opinionated and non-science backed sources, when 98% of the worlds scientists offer their reliable and educated views?

Oh, of course, the overwhelming strong majority 98%, of these scientists are just paid for their opinions. ?????

"You see what you want to see".

"You hear what you want to hear."

Harry Nilson fifty years ago with his "The Point" was so prophetic.

History can teach us all valuable lessons, if we listen. Some do not and will never. \

Happy 4th to all who remember what this holiday is really about when our democracy is threatened like few times in our history.

Deniers are going to deny until their last breaths that cannot come too soon.

Over and out.











Well said.

surabi - 7-3-2023 at 08:12 PM

Quote: Originally posted by soulpatch  
Are you catching rainwater?

One of my clients here in San Miguel de Allende just installed 2-10,000 liter tanks and last night I estimated we had at least a 100gmp running off the roof for a solid 30 minutes and then a repeat of that a few hours later.

Finally,rain



I am currently catching rainwater but in the most basic way. I have 2 water pipes that come off my balcony that all the rain on my roof gushes out of, and I put pails under there, then use that water to wash dishes, flush the toilet, water potted plants. But I have been planning to hook those 2 pipes up to a lateral pipe that then goes into a downpipe that would fill my cistern.

JDCanuck - 7-4-2023 at 08:53 AM

Quote: Originally posted by surabi  
Quote: Originally posted by soulpatch  
Are you catching rainwater?

One of my clients here in San Miguel de Allende just installed 2-10,000 liter tanks and last night I estimated we had at least a 100gmp running off the roof for a solid 30 minutes and then a repeat of that a few hours later.

Finally,rain



I am currently catching rainwater but in the most basic way. I have 2 water pipes that come off my balcony that all the rain on my roof gushes out of, and I put pails under there, then use that water to wash dishes, flush the toilet, water potted plants. But I have been planning to hook those 2 pipes up to a lateral pipe that then goes into a downpipe that would fill my cistern.


Sounds like a very inexpensive plan that just might surprise you with how much it yields annually. Filtration to the cistern supply would be a high priority I think. RFClark way back showed us a very inexpensive filtration box he had installed.
I envy people who live in Baja year round and can reuse their discharges through Engineered septic water systems to water their shrubs and fruit trees. Much of our water demand is used to just keep plants alive year round when we aren't in residence, and rooftop rainwater is just discharged uselessly to our lot at present as the storage system would prove very expensive.

[Edited on 7-4-2023 by JDCanuck]

surabi - 7-4-2023 at 09:37 AM

Some sort of screen that filters out leaves and such would be a good idea, but beyond that, I'm not concerned with filtration. I would design the simple gutter and downpipe system so it could be easily disconnected at the start of the rainy season until the dust, dirt, and bird poop that had accumulated on my roof was well washed away. It rains so hard where I live that the water runs clear and clean after the first few rains. I have put my garafons under the water spout and drunk that water with no filtration with no ill effects.

RFClark - 7-4-2023 at 11:19 PM

JD,

I’ve gone even simpler on the new system. It’s all made with “off the shelf” Mexican parts. We buried a 400G plastic water tank, home depot 1/4hp above ground pump with a 90 micron spin filter on the output. The sediment settles in the tank. The foot valve for the pump has a strainer and a check valve. The watering risers have a cut from a hacksaw to adjust water flow at each plant. Plants doing great. The tank has a standard tank float switch to protect the pump from running dry.

IMG_2556.jpeg - 86kB

[Edited on 7-5-2023 by RFClark]

[Edited on 7-5-2023 by RFClark]

soulpatch - 7-5-2023 at 04:49 PM

Cool stuff!

monoloco - 7-15-2023 at 06:24 AM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark  
JD,

I’ve gone even simpler on the new system. It’s all made with “off the shelf” Mexican parts. We buried a 400G plastic water tank, home depot 1/4hp above ground pump with a 90 micron spin filter on the output. The sediment settles in the tank. The foot valve for the pump has a strainer and a check valve. The watering risers have a cut from a hacksaw to adjust water flow at each plant. Plants doing great. The tank has a standard tank float switch to protect the pump from running dry.



[Edited on 7-5-2023 by RFClark]

[Edited on 7-5-2023 by RFClark]
One of your neighbors on the beachfront had a system like that, but it had a major issue with smell. When you store grey water in a tank it gets very stinky, very quickly, and from what I understand, becomes a toxic bacterial soup. When they irrigated with that stored grey water the smell next door downwind was unbearable.

monoloco - 7-15-2023 at 06:32 AM

Quote: Originally posted by tiotomasbcs  
Todos Santos is trying hard to repel fast growth w/o regards to water, power, trash issues.....but Big Money is moving in! Still a good place to live. I've been here since early 90s and our core community is working to keep it Alive and culturally enjoyable! IMHO

I wonder if there is any plans to develop a water system for Los Cerritos or are they just planning on having a city there completely dependent on trucked in water? The sheer number of pipas hauling in water and hauling out the chit, is getting ridiculous. I can't believe that they continue to permit condominiums without requiring them to build any sewage treatment infrastructure.

AKgringo - 7-15-2023 at 07:15 AM

Quote: Originally posted by monoloco  
One of your neighbors on the beachfront had a system like that, but it had a major issue with smell. When you store grey water in a tank it gets very stinky, very quickly, and from what I understand, becomes a toxic bacterial soup. When they irrigated with that stored grey water the smell next door downwind was unbearable.


In the late 70s I built an irrigation system for our family garden and fruit trees. It was during a severe drought year in Northern California, so we did our part to recycle our grey water.

I was able to use gravity flow from the house to the garden, so did not have to pump or store the water long term. We did not have any problem with odors. I did install a home built ten gallon separator to filter out solids, and only used an organic cleanser that I had faith in to break down naturally.

If your neighbor has a garbage disposal discharging into the grey water system, that will make things worse. Garbage disposals also shorten the time between septic tank service calls.

RFClark - 7-15-2023 at 08:10 AM

We add H2O2 to the gray water tank to reduce the smell and kill the bad bugs.

You need to dump the grease and food waste into the septic system where it belongs.


monoloco - 7-15-2023 at 03:56 PM

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo  
Quote: Originally posted by monoloco  
One of your neighbors on the beachfront had a system like that, but it had a major issue with smell. When you store grey water in a tank it gets very stinky, very quickly, and from what I understand, becomes a toxic bacterial soup. When they irrigated with that stored grey water the smell next door downwind was unbearable.


In the late 70s I built an irrigation system for our family garden and fruit trees. It was during a severe drought year in Northern California, so we did our part to recycle our grey water.

I was able to use gravity flow from the house to the garden, so did not have to pump or store the water long term. We did not have any problem with odors. I did install a home built ten gallon separator to filter out solids, and only used an organic cleanser that I had faith in to break down naturally.

If your neighbor has a garbage disposal discharging into the grey water system, that will make things worse. Garbage disposals also shorten the time between septic tank service calls.
That's pretty much what we do. All the bathrooms have shower and sink water going to different zones, as well as the laundry water, and the grey water from the kitchen goes into a grease trap and flows out a pipe connected to a hose that can be moved around to different areas. The grease trap can be cleaned out and drained into the septic system by opening a valve.