BajaNomad - B737 Problems Again

B737 Problems Again

LancairDriver - 1-8-2024 at 04:12 PM

Don Pisto - 1-8-2024 at 04:19 PM

Quote: Originally posted by LancairDriver

damn you Fishbuck! :lol:

RFClark - 1-8-2024 at 06:47 PM

Today they found the missing door plug from the Alaska Air 737 in an Oregon backyard. Ops! UAL found loose bolts in several of their 737 AC.

I wonder how many flights to Cabo were canceled as a result?

Maderita - 1-8-2024 at 07:39 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark

... Ops! UAL found loose bolts in several of their 737 AC.

That would only help if you gave them one of these with it!

RFClark - 1-8-2024 at 10:07 PM

[Edited on 1-9-2024 by RFClark]

LancairDriver - 1-9-2024 at 01:53 AM

Fishbuck warned us about the QC problems at Boeing.

mtgoat666 - 1-9-2024 at 05:16 AM

Quote: Originally posted by LancairDriver

Fishbuck warned us about the QC problems at Boeing.

Boeing should have warned us about fishbuck!

mtgoat666 - 1-9-2024 at 05:38 AM

It’s surreal that our sociaty obsesses over safety of planes designed to be safe, and statistically very safe, but is completely unconcerned about allowing widespread ownership of products designed to be dangerous.

The death toll from guns in usa is equivalent to a plane crash every few days. Imagine us ignoring that statistic about planes, or passing laws making planes less safe.

We have a well funded FAA to keep us safe flying.

For over 2 decades our laws (dickey amendment) actually prevented federal govt from studying safety of guns. Nra (gun mfgs) lobbied for this law. Can you imagine if airplane mfgs lobbied for a law banning all federal study of air safety?

Anywho, the recent news should all remind us to wear our seatbelts at all times on planes,… as chit happens. Always amazes me that people unfasten their seat belts on planes…

[Edited on 1-9-2024 by mtgoat666]

RFClark - 1-9-2024 at 06:26 AM

OSG,

Lots of laws and few guns in Europe but almost a million dead and more injured in the last 2 years due to government sponsored gun violence.

Lots of violence from sharp pointy things too!

The Swiss have guns and little gun or knife violence. They have weapon laws not gun laws. They also have universal military training. Perhaps they’re on to something?

LancairDriver - 1-10-2024 at 01:55 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote: Originally posted by LancairDriver

Fishbuck warned us about the QC problems at Boeing.

Boeing should have warned us about fishbuck!

😂

Cliffy - 1-10-2024 at 06:17 PM

They have found that the bolts used to fasten the door panel to the wall were never installed

RFClark - 1-10-2024 at 06:36 PM

Cliffy,

That’s why the CEO of Boeing “fell on his sword” yesterday! They pulled the plug to load the AC and never replaced the screws! Either of the top two bolts would have kept the plug in place.

Sometimes Murphy is benevolent. That’s the only reason everyone on the AC isn’t dead. Then there are the “experts” who were amazed that the c-ckpit door wasn’t a pressure bulkhead! OMG!

mtgoat666 - 1-10-2024 at 06:54 PM

I like alaska airlines, i got all my points and status with them, i hope they fix the 737 max 9 problem quickly and get back to serving me those canned old fashioneds i so like (quite tasty, I try to leave every flight with a few extra cans in my backpack)

Cliffy - 1-10-2024 at 07:33 PM

Maybe Boeing needs a Safety Stand Down like the military does?

Maybe a change in leadership to get back to an Engineering mindset instead of a financial mindset?

This is not something new Its been talked about for years at/about Boeing

I there was a new path after the 2 lost aircraft it sure isn't showing up now

Any Las Vegas betting line on how long the CEO lasts?
Unfortunately it all comes down to management

Maderita - 1-10-2024 at 07:37 PM

Cliffy - 1-10-2024 at 07:38 PM

OH It'll buff right out!

RFClark - 1-10-2024 at 09:43 PM

The difference between Boeing and SpaceX is Elon Musk. Boeing had people like him in the past. Space X has been flying passengers to the space station for over a year. Boeing’s entry still doesn’t work right. ULA (Boeing) finally launched their new non-reusable first stage a few years late. Space X has a fleet of reusable first stage boosters with up to 19 flights. ULA isn’t even in the same business.

There was an electronics company called Grass Valley. They designed and manufactured TV Broadcast Electronics overly engineered electronics. Other people made equipment with the same function and 1/10th the parts. The company lost it’s way and has been sold and moved many times in the last 20 years.

Boeing could be headed down the same road.

mtgoat666 - 1-10-2024 at 10:21 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark

The difference between Boeing and SpaceX is Elon Musk. Boeing had people like him in the past. Space X has been flying passengers to the space station for over a year. Boeing’s entry still doesn’t work right. ULA (Boeing) finally launched their new non-reusable first stage a few years late. Space X has a fleet of reusable first stage boosters with up to 19 flights. ULA isn’t even in the same business.

There was an electronics company called Grass Valley. They designed and manufactured TV Broadcast Electronics overly engineered electronics. Other people made equipment with the same function and 1/10th the parts. The company lost it’s way and has been sold and moved many times in the last 20 years.

Boeing could be headed down the same road.

You reading of dramatic news miscolors your understanding of commercial aviation is USA. Usa aviation is super safe, has super low rate of crash/injury. A few hiccups at Boeing does not mean Boeing is over. Boeing still makes great planes.

You want to learn about engineering/failure, read To Engineer is Human: The Role of Failure in Successful Design by Petroski.

RFClark - 1-10-2024 at 11:21 PM

Here is a summery of the CEO’s remarks and the state of the investigation. UAL has already found loose plug bolts on their 737AC.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/09/business/boeing-safety-meetin...

Goat,

Boeing is commercial AC in the US. That said they risk being left behind.

Santiago - 1-11-2024 at 08:24 AM

A slight hi-jack and a tale of two investors.

Right after the two Max 8 crashes, Boeing stock went from this mid 400s to about $350 or so. My business partner said I should buy some stock as, and I quote, "Boeing is a $400 stock". I should preface this by saying I am NOT an individual stock buyer, just a typical Vanguard guy.

So I throw a few thou into the stock just for sh*ts and grins and over the next year get hammered by my trash-talking partner every week as the stock slides to $90.

So a year ago a bunch of us were drinking some loud-mouth and the conversation went to investment strategy and I tell my tale of woe and get laughed at for except one guy, a newly retired Delta pilot. He said he bought a crap load of BA when it hit $90 and now at $125-$130 he's sitting pretty good. More hoots and hollers.

Fast forward to a last week's incident and the stock starts cratering from the recent high of the mid $260s and I text the guy where he thinks the stock will bottom out at. He says it's of no concern to him as he just sold the stock a few weeks before door plug blew out.

I begged him to tell me the next time he buys something so I can piggy back on his obvious stock picking abilities.

pacificobob - 1-11-2024 at 08:45 AM

I have owned boeing shares several times over the last 40 years....i don't think I've ever done well with it. They have a remarkable ability to snatch failure from the jaws of success.

Grass Valley electronics

AKgringo - 1-11-2024 at 09:19 AM

Another slight hi-jack.....Grass Valley Group was founded in rural ranch country just a couple of miles from where I grew up, which is also where I am right now.

The founder's decision to start up an electronic device company well away from any major metropolis was reported to be because of a friendship with Charles Litton Sr, who located a leading-edge microwave development facility here.

I went to school with the Litton brothers, and recently ran into Charles Litton Jr at their old plant, which is now commercial rental property.

Quality control issue before the door plug failure

AKgringo - 1-11-2024 at 10:47 AM

I read an article today that says the door plug was manufactured by a sub-contractor that was already being sued for quality control issues.

www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/maker-of-boeing-door-plugs...

RFClark - 1-11-2024 at 11:09 AM

Lencho,

He got out in front on the issue by accepting responsibility even though the FAA has “officially” said nothing. Boeing removes that plug during final assembly to access the interior of the 737 AC. Boeing installed and inspected those bolts last. UAL and Alaska both have found loose bolts.

We’ll see how long this guy lasts as Boing’s CEO. My guess is not very.

There’s an interesting youtube video of how the door is installed. Basically the door has what looks like 2 upper 30mm pins at the sides down about 30CM from the top. The door has to come vertically about 40mm for the pin to clear the retainer built into the side of the AC. The loose or missing bolt(s) seem to prevent the plug from moving upward to disengage not hold the plug in.

Watch the video if you’re interested.

[Edited on 1-11-2024 by RFClark]

RFClark - 1-11-2024 at 11:19 AM

AK,

Tektronix went down the same “Rabbit hole”.

In the early ‘70s their Beaverton campus had a meeting room with a hardwood table described as “being the size of a tennis court”! Where are they now?

The “bean counters” may inherit the earth. But there won’t be many “beans” left for them to count if they do!

BajaNomad - 1-11-2024 at 11:40 AM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark

Here is a summery of the CEO’s remarks and the state of the investigation. UAL has already found loose plug bolts on their 737AC.

Nothing there supporting your claims that the CEO "fell on his sword", nor that the bolts actually were missing on that aircraft.

https://simpleflying.com/boeing-ceo-admits-responsibility-al...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-01-09/boeing-ce...

Hardware to secure panel that blew off Boeing 737 jet may never have been installed: NTSB

RFClark - 1-12-2024 at 02:38 PM

“Federal investigators probing last week’s near-disastrous Alaska Airlines Boeing 737 fuselage panel blowout are looking into the possibility that the hardware that was supposed to keep it secured was never installed in the first place.
National Transportation Safety Board officials made the revelation during a Monday night press conference, hours after United Airlines reported finding loose bolts and “installation issues” on some Boeing 737 MAX 9 jetliners in the wake of Friday evening’s emergency landing of Alaska Airlines Flight 1282 at Portland International Airport.
Officials told reporters the door plug came off the plane minutes after it took off from PDX, causing the cabin pressure to drop precipitously and creating the terrifying “loud” and “windy” conditions that led a young passenger sitting next to the missing door to reportedly lose his shirt as he was held down by his mother.
The large panel that was blown off the plane was located where an emergency exit door would normally be on a plane with more seats, and should have been secured by stop bolts and 12 interlocking pins and pads, investigators said.
“The exam to date has shown that the door did in fact translate upwards, all 12 stops became disengaged, allowing it to blow out of the fuselage,” said NTSB aerospace engineer Clint Crookshanks.”

Maderita - 1-12-2024 at 02:50 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark

"... all 12 stops became disengaged, allowing it to blow out of the fuselage,” said NTSB aerospace engineer Clint Crookshanks.”

Engineer Crookedshanks went on to say that all 12 pins were bent. :lol:

LancairDriver - 1-13-2024 at 06:09 PM

Fast forward to a last week's incident and the stock starts cratering from the recent high of the mid $260s and I text the guy where he thinks the stock will bottom out at. He says it's of no concern to him as he just sold the stock a few weeks before door plug blew out.[/rquote]

I think I have heard that before.

Boeing’s Image Makeover; From Opaque To Tearfully Accountable - Forbes

RFClark - 1-14-2024 at 11:10 AM

“Could BoeingBA possibly be getting help from PR makeover consultants to soften its public image, lately perceived by some as cold and dodgy?
Breaking out of corporate character, Boeing’s CEO uncharacteristically accepted Boeing’s responsibility for Alaska Airlines’ door plug blowing out in mid-air, at one point misting up, while discussing the event with Boeing employees at what must’ve been a very awkward town hall meeting.
This is in sharp contrast to the company’s past stubborn denial of the two 737 MAX crashes around 5 years ago, when they were initially quick to deflect blame to the pilots. Once cornered with the truth, the company then tried throwing a sacrificial lower-level employee under the bus to shift any blame from its senior management. The employee was exonerated, likely with lasting career damage, while leaving Boeing with yet another black eye in its quest to deny leadership culpability.
However, their bristly public image seems to have gotten a sudden makeover following the most recent Alaska Airlines emergency. This time, instead of blaming everyone but themselves, Boeing manned up and acknowledged their mistake despite the investigation still ongoing by the FAA. This radical and sudden shift to accountability is in sharp contrast to its previous federal criminal misconduct fine for misleading regulatory officials.
However, Boeing may have laid on its new sympathetic persona a little too quickly and heavily. Whereas Boeing took weeks to ever acknowledge its role in the Boeing MAX crashes, CEO David Calhoun, who had been a Boeing board member back then, is now “shaken to the bone” by the latest Alaska Airlines incident.
He may have been trying a little too hard to humanize Boeing on a CNBC interview claiming to be personally “devastated” and “emotional” (while seemingly fighting back tears) given that he had just spent a week with his kids and grandkids. The conversation stopped short of any mention of puppies or kittens at home.
Regardless, the contrast between the old Dave and the new Dave is drastic and from a PR perspective, borderline bipolar. It would instead seem that the company is now executing an about-face communications strategy to come across as cuddly, but may have overdone it by instead coming across as deliberate and premeditated.”

digcolnagos - 1-15-2024 at 01:28 PM

No final conclusions, but smart money says that the plug wasn't bolted in.

But wait, there's more.

The c-ckpit door came open when the plug fell out, much to the surprise fo the flight crew. Boeing had designed the c-ckpit door to open in event of depressurization, but the company hadn't put that in the manual or otherwise told airlines.

But wait, there's more.

Last summer, Boeing discovered that a subcontractor had drilled superfluous fastening holes in fuselages, other holes weren't properly aligned and some were oval instead of round. This is the same company that supplied the fuselage and plug that fell out.

But wait, there's more.

In 2021, Boeing paid a $2.5 billion fine to resolve criminal charges alleging the company had lied to the FAA about the faulty system that caused two fatal crashes in 2018 and 2019. That same year, empty tequila bottles were found in a Boeing plane under construction on order from the government to be the next Air Force One.

But wait, there's more.

The media reported last fall that Boeing CEO David Calhoun was allowing executives to work from home. Imagine: They've got a dumpster fire of a company going on and they don't have to go to the office. Boeing HQ are in Washington D.C., far from any manufacturing operations, which is, itself, problematic.

But wait, there's more.

Calhoun, who has an accounting degree but no engineering background, is paid $22 million a year. Last year, the company canceled a $7 million bonus due if he got the 777X into production by the end of 2023. To Calhoun's credit, the plane is not yet in production, but what kind of company, given Boeing's recent problems, would create an incentive to rush a new aircraft into the sky?

We can't lose Boeing, the only commercial aircraft manufacturer in the United States and one of only two in the world. Boeing seems to know this and has behaved accordingly. Allowing exec's to work from home is the prime example, I think, of the company's arrogance and cavalier attitude. Airbus also relies heavily on contractors and suppliers, but their planes don't crash. It took 18 minutes to evacuate the Airbus plane that caught fire in Japan after a runway collision and not a single person was seriously hurt. Would anyone be surprised if, it had been a 737, the plane would have instantly turned into a ball of flame, inside and out, because Boeing had made fuel tanks out of plastic and installed them in overhead bins?

The government needs to put Boeing under some sort of trustee or receiver who has an engineering degree and let that person run the company, carte blanche. If that puts Boeing out of business, so be it. Another company will come along soon enough. But the situation now is dangerous to public safety and national security.

AKgringo - 1-15-2024 at 01:39 PM

I am reading this right after searching for flights to Anchorage. The thought "Is this trip necessary?" comes to mind.

digcolnagos - 1-15-2024 at 01:49 PM

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo

I am reading this right after searching for flights to Anchorage. The thought "Is this trip necessary?" comes to mind.

Wall Street Journal is reporting that China is re-thinking an order for 737's due for delivery this month. Who could blame them? And who ever would have imagined fond memories of the DC-10?

Safe travels. And check the seat pocket in front of you. My sources say they're being stocked with rolls of duct tape. Just in case.

[Edited on 1-15-2024 by digcolnagos]

pacificobob - 1-15-2024 at 10:36 PM

The DC-10 is/was a good airplane. Especially after fixing some hydraulic issues. The MD-11 , a subsequent evolution was also good, but not without a few issues.

mtgoat666 - 1-15-2024 at 10:51 PM

Quote: Originally posted by digcolnagos

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo

I am reading this right after searching for flights to Anchorage. The thought "Is this trip necessary?" comes to mind.

Wall Street Journal is reporting that China is re-thinking an order for 737's due for delivery this month. Who could blame them? And who ever would have imagined fond memories of the DC-10?

Ah, the good old days when we could smoke in the back! Nothing like smoking and drinking on the start of vacation! But cigs always tasted a little weird on airplanes, i think it was something they added to the air :?:

I always got a seat in non-smoking, then went back to empty seats in back when we wanted to smoke :lol:

The anti-smoking N-zis ruined restaurants, bars and planes with all those healthy laws… :thumbdown:

surabi - 1-15-2024 at 11:41 PM

On an Alaska Airlines flight from PV to LA I was on years ago, they lost the cabin pressure about an hour after take-off. I never found out why. But suddenly I was having a hard time breathing and a split second later the masks dropped down and the flight attendants were rushing around helping people with them.

They never got the cabin pressure back so everyone was wearing the masks until we landed in LA. I get strangely calm in emergency situations and while other passengers had panicked eyes or were crying, I was just thinking how everyone looked like Miss Piggy in those masks.

Cliffy - 1-16-2024 at 05:26 AM

On all airliners there are a least 3 ways to control pressurization, sometimes 4 way. If one fails you move to the next way and so on.
Automatic normal, automatic stand by, manual AC (electrical), Manual DC electrical)

If the pilot can't recover the pressurization he MUST descend to a lower altitude where people can breathe (usually 10,000 feet above sea level)

At this point the masks are no longer needed.

So IF the failure is in the controller - going to one of the other modes will keep the pressurization working and no decent is required once control is established. IF the failure is caused by something else then going down to a safe altitude solves the problem.

Either way once taken care of the masks are not required, One should never have to use the emergency mask for the entire remainder of the trip. AND the available amount of oxygen in that "emergency" system is not enough to supply the passengers for the entire length of the trip anyway. Its just not needed once the problem is cleared.

mtgoat666 - 1-16-2024 at 07:25 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy

On all airliners there are a least 3 ways to control pressurization, sometimes 4 way. If one fails you move to the next way and so on.
Automatic normal, automatic stand by, manual AC (electrical), Manual DC electrical)

If the pilot can't recover the pressurization he MUST descend to a lower altitude where people can breathe (usually 10,000 feet above sea level)

At this point the masks are no longer needed.

So IF the failure is in the controller - going to one of the other modes will keep the pressurization working and no decent is required once control is established. IF the failure is caused by something else then going down to a safe altitude solves the problem.

Either way once taken care of the masks are not required, One should never have to use the emergency mask for the entire remainder of the trip. AND the available amount of oxygen in that "emergency" system is not enough to supply the passengers for the entire length of the trip anyway. Its just not needed once the problem is cleared.

Dr google:
Ya, but what if plane depressurizes over ocean, 3 hours from land, and limited fuel prevents flying below 10000?

And then a whole host of questions arise out of malaysian 370 where the capt incapacitated passengers and crew by depressurizing the plane…

RFClark - 1-16-2024 at 09:17 AM

Rather than argue about how a very complicated AC system works here’s a link to an explanation of the cabin air pressure system in the 777 AC. This is a part of “how to” videos for the 777AC systems. Other current Boeing AC have similar systems.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1g3HqdKHXs0

Cliffy - 1-16-2024 at 12:04 PM

Part of being certified to cross the oceans out of reach of land is the requirement to be able to descend to 10,000 feet and complete the trip from any point on the route with enough fuel to have a reserve amount at the end of the trip.
EVERY airplane crossing the oceans has to meet this requirement.

RFClark - 1-16-2024 at 02:05 PM

Cliffy,

Currently the c-ckpit O2 supply and the masks that drop out of the ceiling are on different systems in Boeing AC. Originally O2 tanks were used for the entire mask system. Later because of weight there was a switch to the same sort of hyper O2 cartridges used in Subs for emergencies. Those cartridges are single use and can’t be started and stopped. The c-ckpit system is still tanked O2. The drop down masks may still be single use cartridges. That system uses cartridges in zones or for each seat.

Cliffy - 1-16-2024 at 04:42 PM

RF Yes no argument there - I used to fly all the types of Emergency O2 when I was working. Worked on all of them also when I was an airline mechanic. I know the systems well from a mechanic point of view and as a pilot flying the airplane

I've had 3 pressurization losses in my career and never had a problem with any passenger under my care. Its really a non-event if handled properly.

RFClark - 1-16-2024 at 06:12 PM

OSG,

“ Passenger oxygen masks cannot deliver enough oxygen for sustained periods at high altitudes. This is why the flight crew needs to place the aircraft in a controlled emergency descent to a lower altitude where it is possible to breathe without emergency oxygen. While the masks are being used, passengers are not allowed to leave their seat for any reason until it is safe to breathe without the emergency oxygen”

Below is a current Passenger O2 delivery system - the “Canister” is a thermal O2 generator. It burns and gives off O2 for a few mins. Long enough for the plane to make an emergency decent.

Cliffy - 1-16-2024 at 06:29 PM

I had a very close personal friend killed by those
The Captain of the ValuJet into the swamp in Florida

RFClark - 1-16-2024 at 06:52 PM

The one that had a cargo of removed O2 generators? Sorry to hear that. Condolences!

Cliffy - 1-16-2024 at 10:22 PM

Yes they shipped a large box of those generators in the fwd bag bin
They were supposed to discharge them before shipping and didn't
They popped on their own and heat (because they get real hot) plus O2 made a blow torch out of the airplane.

RFClark - 1-16-2024 at 10:35 PM

Getting back to the Boeing issue the FAA is the problem not the solution. They don’t have the budget or qualified staff to handle what’s on their plate now.

They are partly responsible for the 737 MAX madness in the first place. No one should approve an AC that’s flown by a committee and then not have an alternate pitot tube and static air source for the damned box that’s flying the plane. Either no pilots involved or no one listened to them.

That said notice that drones don’t need pitot tubes. Go figure!

An Alaska Airline response

AKgringo - 1-17-2024 at 08:19 AM

This morning I received a six minute you tube video from Alaska Airlines about the 737 Max issue;

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPUGOFS0Dpg

elgatoloco - 1-17-2024 at 01:09 PM

Flying to Belize Monday on a 737. Wish us luck. :lol:

RFClark - 1-17-2024 at 01:14 PM

elga,

Rows 24-30 are bad choices!

elgatoloco - 1-17-2024 at 01:18 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark

elga,

Rows 24-30 are bad choices!

I feel better already.......4A & B :dudette:

RFClark - 1-17-2024 at 01:21 PM

👍

Free food and drinks too!

What’s not to like?

Cliffy - 1-19-2024 at 11:20 AM

All 737s were not created equal ! :-)
Didn't have these problems when I flew the highest time 737-200 IN THE WORLD !!!!

RFClark - 1-19-2024 at 12:10 PM

Donald Douglas’s custom AC works basically went out of business (sold to Boeing) because they stopped hireling (and paying) the most qualified workers. Now The DAC people are doing Boeing the same way.

The Government is suing SpaceX to try to get them to do the same thing. There’s nothing wrong with apprentice programs. That’s how people learn and advance based on merit not just seniority.

To the scolds who push “social justice” I would point out that even DOT mandates drug testing for all commercial drivers and you want no less for the folks that build your AC! That and training in how to! Drilling AC rivet holes is an art-form that requires lots of practice and instruction.

Cliffy - 1-19-2024 at 12:45 PM

Setting those rivets even more so than drilling the holes

RFClark - 1-19-2024 at 01:07 PM

Also an art-form! I apprenticed drilling rivet holes and bucking rivets. Not my cup of tea. Avionics and Radar are where I found a home. Back in the “BC days” (Before Computers & Transistors). Think ARC “Coffee Grinders”!

Cliffy - 1-19-2024 at 05:54 PM

Found my niche in engines and powerplant systems not
sheet metal

RFClark - 1-19-2024 at 07:42 PM

So an A and P!

Cliffy - 1-19-2024 at 10:40 PM

A&P 1967 plus
Airline A&P on 707, 747, DC9, 727, DC10, DC8
Civilian A&P trained on CE500, LrJet, 421,

Also Pilot MEATP B737, B727, B757, B767, LrJet, CE500 A319 MU-2
Retired flying Mooney 2500 hrs in same.

Learned A&P on round motored aircraft- DC-3, B-25 Shaky Jakes, round Continentals etc Wrights and Pratts also.
Always a motor guy at heart.
Nothing smells or sounds quite as good as a round motor starting up.

AKgringo - 1-20-2024 at 01:07 AM

"Nothing smells or sounds quite as good as a round motor starting up."

I have had the pleasure of flying in DeHavilland Beavers on wheels, skis, and floats. It is by far my favorite aircraft!

digcolnagos - 1-20-2024 at 02:03 AM

Super impressed with the amount of knowledge here. Thanks.

pacificobob - 1-20-2024 at 06:29 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy

A&P 1967 plus
Airline A&P on 707, 747, DC9, 727, DC10, DC8
Civilian A&P trained on CE500, LrJet, 421,

Also Pilot MEATP B737, B727, B757, B767, LrJet, CE500 A319 MU-2
Retired flying Mooney 2500 hrs in same.

Learned A&P on round motored aircraft- DC-3, B-25 Shaky Jakes, round Continentals etc Wrights and Pratts also.
Always a motor guy at heart.
Nothing smells or sounds quite as good as a round motor starting up.

Career atp here. 747, dc10 md11 dc6. However, i must confess ive not heard of a MEATP

mtgoat666 - 1-20-2024 at 08:05 AM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark

Also an art-form! I apprenticed drilling rivet holes and bucking rivets.

Rosie the riveter:
Thank you for your service!

OSG, They also served!

RFClark - 1-20-2024 at 09:57 AM

So you could run your mouth!

North American Aviation 1943 somewhere near Space X in Hawthorne CA.

Cliffy - 1-20-2024 at 11:53 AM

In the past you could get a SEATP (single engine ATP) or MEATP (multiengine ATP) Don't know if that is still the case. I never went or the SEATP but my buddy did in a 172.

My Aunt was a riveter at Douglas Aircraft Long Beach CA

[Edited on 1-20-2024 by Cliffy]

RFClark - 1-20-2024 at 11:57 AM

Cliffy,

With your ME ATP you can request the additional SE ATP w/o a test.

Cliffy - 1-20-2024 at 12:20 PM

Hmm I didn't know that

Used to be able to get signed off for a hot air balloon license without any testing also. Never did that either.

Santiago - 1-20-2024 at 03:15 PM

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo

"Nothing smells or sounds quite as good as a round motor starting up."

I have had the pleasure of flying in DeHavilland Beavers on wheels, skis, and floats. It is by far my favorite aircraft!

In one of John Gierach's books he has a whole chapter on the DeHavs and the bush pilots who fly them. Lots of white knuckle moments.

AKgringo - 1-20-2024 at 03:44 PM

In the mid 90s I was with a group in the Thompson Pass area above Valdez Alaska. It is well known for spectacular helicopter skiing, but one flight we took was in a Beaver on skis.

After a surprisingly short take off run, the pilot banked and headed toward a mountain pass between two jagged peaks. There was no level ground in that pass!

With the wings not level, but parallel to the slope angle, we touched down in powder and he powered up the slope until we were near the top, then he turned 90 degrees to the slope angle and stopped with the engine running.

We all bailed out, unloaded our skis and packs (rehearsed before we took off), and gave him a thumbs up. The pilot revved the engine, did a hard right turn, and going down hill empty the take off run resembled a helicopter!

One of our group was a pro ski patroller from Crested Butte Colorado who was also a private pilot. Despite a week of skiing some of the most remarkable runs anywhere, the Beaver ride was the high point of his trip!

LancairDriver - 1-20-2024 at 03:50 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark

Also an art-form! I apprenticed drilling rivet holes and bucking rivets.

Rosie the riveter:
Thank you for your service!

Don’t forget the girls who flew the aircraft from the production lines as test pilots all over the country.

IMG_0999.jpeg - 101kB

[Edited on 1-20-2024 by LancairDriver]

RFClark - 1-20-2024 at 05:57 PM

L,

I couldn't possibly forget that as my Aunt was one of the members of the US version of Bletchley Park. In the ‘50s she was Security Bank’s IBM computer expert. A long time friend’s Mom was an original WW2 fighter taxi pilot and my Dad worked for a sub-contractor that made things for the Manhattan project.

They were all giants!

Cliffy - 1-20-2024 at 10:39 PM

My Dad made ball turrets for B-17s and the Navy wouldn't let him join up Said he was more valuable making parts than swabbing a deck.

LancairDriver - 1-21-2024 at 10:04 AM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark

L,

I couldn't possibly forget that as my Aunt was one of the members of the US version of Bletchley Park. In the ‘50s she was Security Bank’s IBM computer expert. A long time friend’s Mom was an original WW2 fighter taxi pilot and my Dad worked for a sub-contractor that made things for the Manhattan project.

They were all giants!

We all owe them all our freedom and respect. They contributed greatly to the last war the US and ally’s have fought and won since 1945.

surfhat - 1-21-2024 at 01:34 PM

Tom Brokaw nailed it with his 'Greatest Generation' moniker.

Heroics was fully earned and hardly ever acknowledged, and that was just fine for this special group of heroes who, for the most part, never sought recognition for the gift they gave to our nation.

There was a time when being humble was a respected and natural state of being. There was a time when politics was the last thing that mattered.

Honoring our nation through serving was all to our and their everlasting honor.

A singular memory will never leave me. On the morning of 9/11 my Dad called and told me to turn on the TV. Quote, 'this is the worst thing to happen to our nation since Pearl Harbor.

He had seen it all. From an Iowa college student on Dec. 7th 1941 to the WW2 Pacific theater flying bombers to Korea and VN, he had a unique perspective that is lacking these days.

The conflict in VN signaled his almost thirty year duty to our nation was enough.

He never spoke about his service and how I miss having his life lessons that were always so freely given. He never brought his, exalted in my mind, position, home with him. Other family's were not so fortunate. Some of their kids were my best friends and I bet they wish they had my dad for a father. The movie The Great Santini brought this home.

A rainy Sunday morning is a good time to remember those who deserve our never-ending praise. Semper Fi.

pacificobob - 1-21-2024 at 02:41 PM

If i took an ATP check ride in a 172 i would keep it a secret.

digcolnagos - 1-24-2024 at 08:47 AM

On the 737 front, Seattle Times is reporting that the door likely fell off because Boeing mechanics didn't install fastening bolts, as described by someone who apparently has direct knowledge:

https://leehamnews.com/2024/01/15/unplanned-removal-installa...

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boein...

Alaska Air to send Employees to watch the FAA watch Boeing!

RFClark - 1-24-2024 at 10:17 AM

The CEO of Alaska Air said today that out of an “abundance of caution” Alaska will be “auditing” the assembly of their AC.

So rather than Boeing hire qualified workers and pay them accordingly, Alaska inspectors will watch the FAA inspectors watch the Boeing inspectors who will watch the people who don’t do it right in the first place!

When the weight of the inspection paperwork equals or exceeds the AC Gross Weight the AC will be deemed airworthy!

You can’t make this stuff up!

Next time take the train! (Which has more derailments and crashes than commercial aviation!)

digcolnagos - 1-24-2024 at 12:35 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark

The CEO of Alaska Air said today that out of an “abundance of caution” Alaska will be “auditing” the assembly of their AC.

So rather than Boeing hire qualified workers and pay them accordingly, Alaska inspectors will watch the FAA inspectors watch the Boeing inspectors who will watch the people who don’t do it right in the first place!

When the weight of the inspection paperwork equals or exceeds the AC Gross Weight the AC will be deemed airworthy!

You can’t make this stuff up!

Next time take the train! (Which has more derailments and crashes than commercial aviation!)

If the Seattle Times piece is accurate, the screw-up happened at the Renton factory in Washington state, where the workforce is unionized and highly paid, not in eastern parts where Boeing purportedly moved production in search of lower wages. According to the whistleblower posting, whomever was responsible for installing the bolts would've left at shift end and whomever was responsible for inspecting to make sure it was done properly never would have had direct contact with the bolt installer--it was all supposed to be logged into a computer, and if someone overlooked doing that, no inspection.

United Airlines also is upset, with its CEO saying they may not be buying Boeing in the future. The Alaska thing is reminiscent of the movie Casino, where DeNiro describes how a gambling parlor works: The dealer is watching the players, the pit boss is watching the dealer, the shift boss is watching the pit boss, the casino manager is watching the shift boss and the eye in the sky is watching everyone. Perhaps Boeing ought to hire someone from Caesar's Palace to take over quality control. It could hardly do worse.

surabi - 1-24-2024 at 03:37 PM

Now a wheel just fell off a Boeing 757.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/wheel-falls-off-boeing-757-du...

mtgoat666 - 1-24-2024 at 08:42 PM

American commercial aviation is very, very safe. The statistics don’t lie.

QC procedures can be fixed. You fix them and move on.

Boeing is great company, they will fix their QC procedures, and learn from this.

Buy american!

Regarding someone quoting UAL,… UAL sucks donkey dick. Who would listen to UAL opinion?

RFClark - 1-24-2024 at 09:46 PM

digcolnagos,

Union doesn't necessarily mean qualified. It means you have a current dues card.

My daughter worked as the “Eye in the sky” in Reno.

Goat,

Did the “drought runoff” get very deep at your place? Texting from the roof? Stay Safe! Lots more is coming!

surabi - 2-6-2024 at 06:05 PM

Climate change brings both drought and unprecendented rains. Anyone who doesn't know that by now is outing themselves as a fool.

California Long Term “Drought” Map

RFClark - 2-6-2024 at 10:21 PM

IMG_4942.jpeg - 128kB

mtgoat666 - 2-7-2024 at 05:52 AM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark

Thank you for your service!

Stay safe!

RFClark - 2-7-2024 at 05:56 AM