BajaNomad - Three Missing Surfers Found Dead

Blame the victim instead of the criminals. That is rich.

surabi - 5-2-2024 at 03:38 PM

Says the guy who said he travels in Mexico with bodyguards. Don't be a jerk. Of course I wasn't blaming the victims. I look at those 2 brothers faces and see open, warm, trusting people. I think of their poor parents, losing 2 sons to something so senseless and horrific.

Pointing out what people can do to try to keep themselves safer isn't "blaming the victim". If someone walks out into the middle of a busy freeway and gets hit by a car, it's pretty obvious to everyone that that was a foolish thing to do and they had a pretty high chance of being hit.

I'm saying if more people bothered to find out and understand what is safe and unsafe to do in other countries, there might be less of these tragic ends, that's all. Better to be overly cautious than not. There just seem to be too many of these crazed violent kidnappers and murderers around ready to commit these conscienceless crimes.

And for what? Not the nice vehicle, obviously. Credit cards, debit cards? A friggin' iphone? It's horrendous.

[Edited on 5-2-2024 by surabi]

SFandH - 5-2-2024 at 03:39 PM

I just wish tourists would inform themselves better as to going to areas of the world where things like this are all too common. Camping somewhere remote with no one else around is unfortunately a dangerous position to put oneself in these days in places like Baja, where there have been far too many similar incidents.

There's middle ground between being totally fearful of travelling in Mexico, surrounding yourself with other gringos and being afraid to interact with locals, and on the other hand letting your guard down, assuming you're in paradise and nothing bad can happen. Just because you've camped in secluded places in the US, Canada, or Australia for years doesn't mean it's a smart thing to do here.

I hope the perps go to prison for the rest of their lives.

[Edited on 5-2-2024 by surabi]

Over the years, there have been only two times when I got to my Baja overnight camping surf destination and found I was alone. There were no other rigs/surfers around like I expected. Both times, I got spooked and left. But I was alone. It might have been different with two other guys with me.

[Edited on 5-2-2024 by SFandH]

surabi - 5-2-2024 at 03:55 PM

Yeah, I can certainly understand 3 young, fit guys assuming they could handle whatever came their way. But when there are monstrous criminals around, apparently that's not good enough.

I'm sure most of us had a feeling of invulnerability when we were younger, it's pretty common and natural. I used to travel all over and not contact my parents for weeks on end. I knew I was okay and thought they were just being neurotic and overprotective to be concerned.

Put myself into some situations that could have easily
gone south that I now look back on and realize how
naive and foolish I was and just lucky that nothing bad
happened.

[Edited on 5-2-2024 by surabi]

wilderone - 5-2-2024 at 04:19 PM

From the Guardian. And important point made on the facebook site - two foreign countries involved - embassies, and Australian Prime Minister helping the mother. Big deal for local authorities.

“Our [Australian] embassy in Mexico is working with local authorities as well to try to ascertain what has happened here. We certainly hope that these brothers are found safely but there is real concern about the fact that they’ve gone missing. Their mother is obviously very distressed about this and we just hope for a positive outcome.”

Mexican police said they had questioned a woman and two men in relation to the disappearance. The woman was found with a mobile phone that contained a photo that looked like one of the missing brothers.

María Elena Andrade Ramírez, Baja California’s chief prosecutor, told reporters that abandoned tents had been found, along with evidence that linked the three people to the missing men, but would not elaborate on whether they were suspects or witnesses in the case.

“A working team is at the site where they were last seen, where tents and other evidence was found that could be linked to these three people we have under investigation,” Andrade Ramírez said. “There is a lot of important information that we can’t make public.” ...
“All lines of investigation are open at this time. We cannot rule anything out until we find them.”

wilderone - 5-2-2024 at 04:28 PM

Beyond sad. A little more info.

https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/3-arrested-as-search-contin...

mtgoat666 - 5-2-2024 at 06:08 PM

Yeah, I can certainly understand 3 young, fit guys assuming they could handle whatever came their way. But when there are monstrous criminals around, apparently that's not good enough.

Meth head psychopaths are out there.

Been said for many years that camping on the beach between border and san quintin is risky.

There have been multiple previous reports of armed robbery of surfers / beach campers in the subject area,… people really shouldnt be camping on that coast SW of santo tomas….

azucena - 5-2-2024 at 08:25 PM

Meth is being produced by the cartels in remote areas all over Baja. This scourge has been produced and present in the US for years. ( I
am a retired Social Worker and have seen the destruction it leaves in it's wake )
Now it has infiltrated the entire Baja peninsula along with Fentanol, knowing many families who are reeling with addicited family members And few resources.
AMLO's hugs not arms is not going to work, neither is Trump's building a wall. It is time for the US and Mexico to work as partners and put their best feet forward to wrest power from the Cartels power to kill and destroy people and entire communities. These surfers are a hallmark of how much this has infiltrated Baja. And, for those of you who want to say Baja is great, take your rose colored glasses off. And, the same to those who think the US is fine , the same. It is an enormous problem that effects ALL of us on both sides of the border. Just talk to family members who are in agony over the loss of their children or family members. No winners here .

mtgoat666 - 5-2-2024 at 08:34 PM

Quote: Originally posted by azucena

Meth is being produced by the cartels in remote areas all over Baja. This scourge has been produced and present in the US for years. ( I
am a retired Social Worker and have seen the destruction it leaves in it's wake )
Now it has infiltrated the entire Baja peninsula along with Fentanol, knowing many families who are reeling with addicited family members And few resources.
AMLO's hugs not arms is not going to work, neither is Trump's building a wall. It is time for the US and Mexico to work as partners and put their best feet forward to wrest power from the Cartels power to kill and destroy people and entire communities. These surfers are a hallmark of how much this has infiltrated Baja. And, for those of you who want to say Baja is great, take your rose colored glasses off. And, the same to those who think the US is fine , the same. It is an enormous problem that effects ALL of us on both sides of the border. Just talk to family members who are in agony over the loss of their children or family members. No winners here .

Meth has been a problem throughout baja for many, many years. Hard to stomp out drugs when places like the USA are hotbeds of recreational drug use that all parts of society are partaking in,… seems like everyone I know in usa is occasional THC user,… rich, poor, middle, educated, uneducated.
Like guns, we know drugs are a problem, but no one wants to do anything about it.

Tioloco - 5-2-2024 at 10:12 PM

Blame the victim instead of the criminals. That is rich.

Lets please have respect for the families while they wait to find out what has happened.

JZ - 5-2-2024 at 10:14 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco

Lets please have respect for the families while they wait to find out what has happened.

Agreed.

AnimalLovers - 5-2-2024 at 11:25 PM

This makes me sick. I posted a review on Google Maps 5 years ago about being shot at and robbed at this exact location. Apparently, at some point, Google took it down. It is gutwrenching to think this could have saved 3 lives. I feel so sad for the families, and lucky that we are alive.

Screenshot_20240502-231041_Gmail.jpg - 160kB

4x4abc - 5-3-2024 at 03:45 AM

Baja California "wins" in armed robberies, car jackings and murder involving foreigners

Screen Shot 2024-05-03 at 3.41.03 AM copy.jpg - 227kB

BeachSeeker - 5-3-2024 at 09:47 AM

Harold, define “wins”.

4x4abc - 5-3-2024 at 09:57 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BeachSeeker

Harold, define “wins”.

the most of all tourist murders, car jackings, home invasions, armed robberies in all of Baja.

Lee - 5-3-2024 at 10:03 AM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

Quote: Originally posted by BeachSeeker

Harold, define “wins”.

the most of all tourist murders, car jackings, home invasions, armed robberies in all of Baja.

Still don't get it. Does the ''M'' mean murder? And the ''stars?"

11 stars and M's. Does this mean total crimes?

BeachSeeker - 5-3-2024 at 10:14 AM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

Quote: Originally posted by BeachSeeker

Harold, define “wins”.

the most of all tourist murders, car jackings, home invasions, armed robberies in all of Baja.

Are you calling it a "win" when someone gets murdered or car jacked?

Or are you saying Baja is winning some sort of contest for murders or car jackings?

4x4abc - 5-3-2024 at 10:33 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Lee

Still don't get it. Does the ''M'' mean murder? And the ''stars?"

11 stars and M's. Does this mean total crimes?

M for murders
star for armed robberies, car jacking

each a single incident

It's such a sad thing.....

SFandH - 5-3-2024 at 10:47 AM

Google translation:

"Apparently, the lifeless bodies of the three missing tourists at the bottom of a cliff located in the Bocana area in Santo Tomas were located.

Authorities are heading to the scene to extract the bodies, more information pending."

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=952450346880898&set...

[Edited on 5-3-2024 by SFandH]

Three Missing Surfers Found Dead

sanquintinsince73 - 5-3-2024 at 05:25 PM

From a post on CBS 8 San Diego:

Like I’ve always said there’s those who understand the reality of what Mexico is and then there’s those who CHOOSE to be in denial. It’s usually the expats who will give you the most grief when you say anything that’s not flattering about Mexico until it happens to them or someone they know. Though I was born and raised here I have plenty of family still in Mexico and they themselves will not hesitate to tell you how bad and unsafe the country has become. There has always been some element of danger but it’s completely out of control these days and when you have a lot of police officers who are on the cartels payrolls it’s open season on just about anyone from Mexican nationals to foreigners.

cupcake - 5-3-2024 at 05:46 PM

I come to Mexico only with what I know I will not be tempted to fight for, only with what I know I can comfortably loose.

I know that 999 out of 1,000 Mexicans I meet will be good people. If I come across the bad one, I will calmly let them have everything I carry. Then, the other 999 good ones will help me arrange for my return home.

There are truly crazy people who just like to hurt others, but I think the vast majority of crime is motivated by money, wealth, material possesions.

[Edited on 5-4-2024 by cupcake]

BooJumMan - 5-3-2024 at 05:48 PM

Anyone clear on where they were camping? Half the sources say La Bocana "area" so I am assuming they are referring to PSJ? Apparently these guys tried to find PSJ prior but ended up at La Bocana last year or something, so I am wondering if they took the wrong road, again?

SFandH - 5-3-2024 at 05:59 PM

Unfortunately, camping in remote Baja areas is no longer safe. You must be indoors or in a secure RV park or camping area with others nearby at night.

[Edited on 5-4-2024 by SFandH]

stillnbaja - 5-3-2024 at 06:28 PM

Anyone clear on where they were camping? Half the sources say La Bocana "area" so I am assuming they are referring to PSJ? Apparently these guys tried to find PSJ prior but ended up at La Bocana last year or something, so I am wondering if they took the wrong road, again?

there's a couple photo's of the area they were camped but no landmarks visible, there is a photo of the boys kickin' it at san mike here just before they disappeared....https://www.shackedmag.com/2024/05/3-missing-surfers-found-dead-in-mexico.html

that area has had bad ju-ju for decades, how would a couple aussies know that? :no:

mtgoat666 - 5-3-2024 at 06:28 PM

No specific info seen about where they camped. According to patrula 646 the bodies were found near the lighthouse (punta san jose)

surabi - 5-3-2024 at 06:37 PM

Quote: Originally posted by sanquintinsince73

From a post on CBS 8 San Diego:

Like I’ve always said there’s those who understand the reality of what Mexico is and then there’s those who CHOOSE to be in denial.

Amd then there's those who choose to bury the facts because they profit from tourism and ex-pats.

There is a website in my town run by some people who sell real estate and have several huge short term rental tourist houses of their own. There are several sections of that website- rental and real estate listings, local business listings, local news, and they used to have a local community forum, which they did away with some years ago.

You can walk along the beach in my town to the beach in the next town, but there is a section where you have to hike up a small hill to the other side. At one point, peopke were getting mugged up there, at knife and gunpoint. There were several incidents.

In answer to some potential tourist asking on that forum about how safe this town was, as well as walking on the beach from our town to the next, I posted a response saying it was quite safe, as long as you didn't do things you wouldn't do at home, like walk down a dark alley at 2am. I also spoke about what had been happening on that hill and suggested people avoid it.

The site administrators censored everything out of my post except saying the town was quite safe.
I was furious and told them never again to censor my posts to make it sound like I wrote the opposite of what I did. Just remove my post entirely, rather than misrepresent it.

Obviously those site owners had zero concern about people being warned about anything that could help keep them safe. They'd prefer to put out only positive, "this a paradise where nothing bad ever happens" PR.

4x4abc - 5-3-2024 at 07:26 PM

most Baja sites and groups are run with business interest
post anything the owner does not like - your post is gone or you are gone
critical thinking is not welcome
complaints are immediately removed
only praising of paradise is good
hallelujah!

and when the group owner is a real estate shark and a "Christian" it get's really dicey

surabi - 5-3-2024 at 08:13 PM

I profit from tourism and an ex-pat population as well, as I have an Airbnb suite and an upholstery business. But it would never occur to me to conceal the truth about safety precautions in this area from my guests, as if they were children who had to be shielded from such concerns. But obviously money is way more important to a lot of people than having a conscience and caring about others.

BooJumMan - 5-3-2024 at 08:52 PM

The SD Union Tribune just posted an update with photo where apparently the bodies were found. Looks like it is the road that goes north from PSJ. blah.

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/border-baja-califo...

JZ - 5-3-2024 at 09:29 PM

Quote: Originally posted by sanquintinsince73

From a post on CBS 8 San Diego:

Like I’ve always said there’s those who understand the reality of what Mexico is and then there’s those who CHOOSE to be in denial. It’s usually the expats who will give you the most grief when you say anything that’s not flattering about Mexico until it happens to them or someone they know. Though I was born and raised here I have plenty of family still in Mexico and they themselves will not hesitate to tell you how bad and unsafe the country has become. There has always been some element of danger but it’s completely out of control these days and when you have a lot of police officers who are on the cartels payrolls it’s open season on just about anyone from Mexican nationals to foreigners.

I hope you didn't sprain your hamstring too badly when you were sprinting as fast as you could to post this to BN's.

Have you seen the crime explosion in the US? Even in my little burb outside LA there are weekly stories of violent crime on Nextdoor.

How often do these attacks on foreigners actually occur? They are incredibly tragic, but not common considering the millions that travel to Mexico every year. It is far, far from "open season on foreigners."

Put ice on the hammy and take a couple Advil.

[Edited on 5-4-2024 by JZ]

BajaNomad - 5-3-2024 at 09:37 PM

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1419876702253029

surabi - 5-3-2024 at 10:19 PM

Quote: Originally posted by stillnbaja

that area has had bad ju-ju for decades, how would a couple aussies know that? :no:

Well, we do live in the age of the internet. There are forums and websites galore. People who have never travelled to an area before ask questions all the time on forums like this. There's probably "Camping in Mexico" forums or Quora posts or whatever if you do some Googling. (There's even a website called "Sleeping in Airports" where people write in telling each other which airports all over the world you can sleep in without security waking you up and telling you to move along, where the best places in the airports are to catch some shuteye, where the most convenient bathrooms are to those areas, etc).

But of course, travelers have to make the effort to search out that stuff, and ask the questions, and it likely doesn't occur to a lot of people, especially a group of young, fit guys, whose main concern is where to catch the best waves, and who had probably been camping all over Australia and and other relatively non-dangerous areas since they were teenagers, to even think about it.

[Edited on 5-4-2024 by surabi]

[Edited on 5-4-2024 by surabi]

AnimalLovers - 5-3-2024 at 10:45 PM

Quote: Originally posted by stillnbaja

that area has had bad ju-ju for decades, how would a couple aussies know that? :no:

If they were using google maps, and google hadn't removed my review about getting robbed and shot at while camping there 5 years ago, things could have been different.

We posted about our experience here, on Facebook, iOverlander, and Google maps. I thought Google maps would reach the most people. It had 1000 views in the first 2 days. I don't know when or why it was removed. We didn't run to the press, but maybe we should have.

BajaNomad - 5-3-2024 at 11:04 PM

Quote: Originally posted by stillnbaja

https://www.instagram.com/callum10robinson
https://www.instagram.com/stories/highlights/179904220166376...

[Edited on 5-4-2024 by BajaNomad]

surabi - 5-4-2024 at 12:19 AM

How often do these attacks on foreigners actually occur? They are incredibly tragic, but not common considering the millions that travel to Mexico every year.

Of course, but there are certain areas which are known to be dangerous and while you might go there and not experience anything scary or bad, they are best avoided unless you are one of those people who likes to tempt fate.

And the majority of the millions who travel to Mexico every year are not camping in remote or sketchy areas. They are staying in touristy towns and cities, in all-inclusive resorts, hotels, and Airbnbs and trailer parks, or, if they are snowbirds who come for 6 months, renting a house in a heavily expat area.

20 years ago my daughter and her Mexican husband had one of those Mexican Guia paper road maps. There was a small red square on the map in Sinaloa, up in the mountains east of Culiacan, that said "Not suitable for travel". Heavy Sinaloa cartel territory.

And there's a town just south of Culiacan you drive through on the main highway called Gusave. Everytime I have driven through there, the hair sort of stands up on the back of my neck, even though I've never witnessed anything untoward there and I'm not a fearful or paranoid person and have done lots of solo driving in Mexico. But there's just some vibe in the air there that's sketchy, and I make sure I'm fueled up and fed so I can sail right past it.

I could name quite a few areas in Mexico it's best to stay clear of, like Celaya and Ciudad Victoria, and parts of Morelia and Chiapas. And I'm sure there's quite a few more I'm not aware of. Mexico is such a huge, beautiful country to explore, there's no need to go to areas that are known to be dangerous.

[Edited on 5-4-2024 by surabi]

An odd coincidence.....

AKgringo - 5-4-2024 at 06:51 AM

I noticed in the link to Callum Robinsons Instagram account that he used the same statement that I do in my BajaNomad signature; "If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space".

I also prefer camping away from tourist areas. The area that they chose is not one that I would consider since it is right on the edge of large population centers with a known history of thug activity.

wilderone - 5-4-2024 at 07:08 AM

The facebook video above ..... states bodies found in a well, NOT found off a cliff??? as the TV news and elsewhere reported? Whaaaa?

Translation: "They locate the three missing foreigners dead in the Santo Tomás delegation, in Ensenada.
Authorities confirmed the discovery of the 2 Australian brothers and the American citizen who had been missing since the weekend in Ensenada. It should be noted that, in the water well, more than 10 meters deep, along with the three foreigners, a fourth was also located. corpse."

[Edited on 5-4-2024 by wilderone]

[Edited on 5-4-2024 by wilderone]

SFandH - 5-4-2024 at 07:16 AM

How often do these attacks on foreigners actually occur? They are incredibly tragic, but not common considering the millions that travel to Mexico every year. It is far, far from "open season on foreigners."

You're right; attacks on tourists are not very frequent.

While in a Mulege restaurant last month, I was asked by two newbie tourists about safety, and I said Highway 1 is the most dangerous aspect of traveling in Baja. Fatal accidents are a regular occurrence on that high-speed crappy road.

KaceyJ - 5-4-2024 at 07:24 AM

NYT article :

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/03/world/americas/mexico-mis...

I wonder how many more bodies are in that hole.
What a shame all around.

4x4abc - 5-4-2024 at 07:26 AM

looks like a well to me
(they found a 4th body in there!)

here is the location
31°30'29.78"N, 116°37'13.28"W

SFandH - 5-4-2024 at 07:54 AM

Quote: Originally posted by KaceyJ

NYT article :

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/03/world/americas/mexico-mis...

I wonder how many more bodies are in that hole.
What a shame all around.

From the article:

"Prosecutors also believe that the three people tied to the deaths tried to seize the victims’ vehicle. When they resisted, Ms. Andrade Ramírez said, one man took out a gun, opened fire and then tried to dispose of their bodies. That person has been arrested."

David K - 5-4-2024 at 08:20 AM

It was reported on last night's TV news (in San Diego) that the 4th body was the owner of the nearby ranch... Perhaps he heard the shots and came to investigate? Horrible people to end 4 lives in their prime.
No doubt this will hurt tourism greatly.

mtgoat666 - 5-4-2024 at 08:20 AM

Zeta reported that 4 bodies were found in the well, the 3 surfers, plus what they think to be the ranch owner who has been missing for several weeks.

mtgoat666 - 5-4-2024 at 08:24 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

It was reported on last night's TV news (in San Diego) that the 4th body was the owner of the nearby ranch... Perhaps he heard the shots and came to investigate? Horrible people to end 4 lives in their prime.
No doubt this will hurt tourism greatly.

Not so much worried about tourism,… so many more mexicans have been victims of similar violence, disappeared.

In this case the popo mounted a big search for the gringos. But the popo dont mount big searches for mexicans who disappear.

wilderone - 5-4-2024 at 09:33 AM

While I can understand cartel violence - among those involved - these depraved actions against innocent people are shocking. The rancher? Missing for weeks? I think this is a new level of senseless, unpredictable violence not seen until recently. Makes me ill. This area needs to be unequivocally off limits for all tourists and the word spread.
Pray for these people. That poor mother.

4x4abc - 5-4-2024 at 10:08 AM

a part of the human race has always been murderers
old books are full of them

since the percentage is small, you can somewhat avoid becoming a victim by avoiding places where a lot of people live
the chances to become a victim in San Ignacio are low

there are some other smart moves - but staying away from large population centers is key

AKgringo - 5-4-2024 at 10:13 AM

I suspect that the criminals in this case are either cartel washouts, or wannabe's. What cartel would want to bring this kind of attention to their operations?

surabi - 5-4-2024 at 10:20 AM

I'd suspect they are just low-life, criminal meth heads with no affiliation to the cartels or anything else.

As far as I'm aware, the cartels have never been into targetting tourists or expats. They are into organized crime- drugs, tapping pipelines, shaking down businesses for "protection" money, etc., getting politicians and cops in their pockets, killing journalists who expose them, etc., not random acts of violence.

[Edited on 5-4-2024 by surabi]

surabi - 5-4-2024 at 11:19 AM

I just saw a photo on a news site of the brothers with their parents. Those young men were BIG. They tower over their parents- looks like they were at least 6'4', and buff. I would suspect the attack happened when they were asleep, or they were outnumbered.

cupcake - 5-4-2024 at 12:04 PM

Yeah, I can certainly understand 3 young, fit guys assuming they could handle whatever came their way. But when there are monstrous criminals around, apparently that's not good enough.

I'm sure most of us had a feeling of invulnerability when we were younger, it's pretty common and natural. I used to travel all over and not contact my parents for weeks on end. I knew I was okay and thought they were just being neurotic and overprotective to be concerned.

Put myself into some situations that could have easily
gone south that I now look back on and realize how
naive and foolish I was and just lucky that nothing bad
happened.

Reportedly, at least one of those three young men was a world class athlete. Looked to be extremely fit and powerful. As you have rightly observed, it is not enough to overcome someone who intends to do harm, when you are not expecting it. Even if a person is armed, the element of surprise will most often trump even that. This has been my first hand experience, having also been in situations that could have easily gone south. Criminal cowards use the element of total surprise.

[Edited on 5-4-2024 by cupcake]

JZ - 5-4-2024 at 12:35 PM

It made national news. Was one of the lead stories on CNN's main Saturday show.

SFandH - 5-4-2024 at 01:43 PM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho

Quote: Originally posted by KaceyJ

NYT article :

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/03/world/americas/mexico-mis...

You're aware that article is behind a paywall? Not helpful. :rolleyes:

I'm a subscriber. This is the info it contained that I haven't read elsewhere.

From the article:

"Prosecutors also believe that the three people tied to the deaths tried to seize the victims’ vehicle. When they resisted, Ms. Andrade Ramírez said, one man took out a gun, opened fire and then tried to dispose of their bodies. That person has been arrested."

mtgoat666 - 5-4-2024 at 02:03 PM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho

Quote: Originally posted by KaceyJ

NYT article :

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/03/world/americas/mexico-mis...

You're aware that article is behind a paywall? Not helpful. :rolleyes:

Lots of ways to get past paywalls. Here is a good one https://12ft.io/

These numbers right?

white whale - 5-4-2024 at 04:06 PM

From the article, eye popping numbers. Bad guys taking each other out is one thing but how do these numbers breakdown for tourist/ traveller murders. Rough figures, so 6 murders to deal with EVERY day in Baja? No wonder the solved rate is so low (assuming that is still the case) in Mexico.

Quote: Originally posted by sanquintinsince73

AKgringo - 5-5-2024 at 08:30 AM

On Easter Sunday, I broke down north of Loreto, and got towed to a shop on the highway coming into town. The mechanic who worked on my Trooper that day, and the one next-door who repaired my alternator the next morning, were both from Oaxaca, on the mainland.

They re-located to Baja because they no longer felt safe in the community they grew up in!

surabi - 5-5-2024 at 10:50 AM

Many years ago I was at my favorite local llantera getting my tire fixed. There was a Mexican family there also, their car loaded to the max and towing a boat, so obviously well-off. They told me they were from Tamaulipas, and relocating because things had becone too dangerous there.

Lee - 5-5-2024 at 11:18 AM

Anyone know what happened to Humfreyville?

mtgoat666 - 5-5-2024 at 12:02 PM

Bajagringo wrote a piece worth reading…

To Mexico and the Rest of Us Who Love this Country…
An open letter to Mexico and all the rest of us who love Mexico. The very best of Baja is slowly becoming too dangerous to visit anymore
https://talkbaja.com/to-mexico-and-the-rest-of-us-who-love-t...

pauldavidmena - 5-5-2024 at 12:53 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

Bajagringo wrote a piece worth reading…

To Mexico and the Rest of Us Who Love this Country…
An open letter to Mexico and all the rest of us who love Mexico. The very best of Baja is slowly becoming too dangerous to visit anymore
https://talkbaja.com/to-mexico-and-the-rest-of-us-who-love-t...

A very sobering note from someone who has experienced the best and worst of what Baja has to offer first-hand.

Don Pisto - 5-5-2024 at 01:17 PM

Paddle out for the boys today at San Miguel at four after a peaceful demonstration in ensenada asking for authorities to keep us safe...it's a start.

digcolnagos - 5-5-2024 at 03:35 PM

Quote: Originally posted by pauldavidmena

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

A very sobering note from someone who has experienced the best and worst of what Baja has to offer first-hand.

Great piece. Gotta say, these deaths are giving me pause.

Had plans to move to Bahia Asuncion for a year or so, maybe longer, maybe forever, if I really liked it. And I've really liked it during my two visits.

Now, I shudder about that solo drive I took for an afternoon north of Bahia Tortugas a year ago. Was that fellow who stopped and talked to me--he did not appear/sound friendly, and I don't speak Spanish (yet)--after I'd gotten out of my rental car to walk around a deserted fishing camp OK or would things have gone differently if I'd arrived at a different time? How far can I walk down the beach at BA before I should worry? If I move there, would I have to stay in town 24/7, in which case I wouldn't move there? Is it safe to go fishing alone?

Years ago, my father and I spent a week in Zihuatanejo. Had a great time. Watched the Super Bowl in a bar/restaurant on the beach. Not long after, the mayor was gunned down at the very same bar restaurant--the photos with blood-soaked sand, six feet from where we'd been sitting, were chilling. That seemed to be a turning point. Expats stopped the it-can-happen-anywhere responses when folks asked whether Z was safe.

I'll be in BA in July. I'd planned on scouting for places to live. Now, I'll be assessing whether to live there at all. What a horrible thing. Always, somehow, thought Baja was immune--normal precautions would keep me safe, I can walk around Loreto at any hour. Now, I think I was just naive.

[Edited on 5-5-2024 by digcolnagos]

shari - 5-5-2024 at 07:41 PM

this last senseless tragedy has affected everyone and made me sooooo glad I live in Bahia Asuncion where it is still safe to remote camp or fish or beachcomb whatever. We dont lock our doors, leave our car keys in the car and windows down in town etc.

This area of central Baja has an excellent security patrol operated by the fishing cooperatives who do rounds 24/7 on all remote beach roads as they watch for poachers. This makes it very safe and the vigilancia guys usually stop and chat with people out in remote areas to see if they are OK or need anything from town etc. I feel extremely safe and are often by myself in remote areas.
Some people are frightened by the patrols thinking they are the bad guys coming to do harm so if you dont speak spanish you may have a hard time understanding what they are saying but they are there to protect you.

There are many places that are well know to be sketchy and dangerous and one need to know where these places are. When I have suggested to stay away from certain places people often discount the info and go there anyway. Bad things happen in known dangerous areas...especially between TJ & San Quintin.

US 41 - 5-5-2024 at 07:46 PM

I've driven into Mexico three times, all with my own vehicle, but I kind of doubt I'll ever take my own personal vehicle into Mexico again. I still plan on traveling to Mexico in the future including both BC states, but it will be in a rental car. I guess if someone wants the rental car they can have it, that's what the theft insurance is for. Not chancing losing my car though. Of course that means I'll have to fly to Mexico now, but at least I'll be able to avoid the border areas and the crooked border town cops looking to make a buck from American drivers.

I'm not against "camping" in the car at a truck stop or a rest area in a well lit area (away from the city) where there's plenty of people around, but I won't "camp" in any secluded areas anymore. Did that when I was 18 or 19 in the Big Bend Park in Texas and looking back that was probably pretty stupid. In Mexico there's so many cheap and clean hotels that are $40 USD or less that "camping" in the car doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me anymore anyways.

digcolnagos - 5-5-2024 at 09:06 PM

Quote: Originally posted by shari

this last senseless tragedy has affected everyone and made me sooooo glad I live in Bahia Asuncion where it is still safe to remote camp or fish or beachcomb whatever. We dont lock our doors, leave our car keys in the car and windows down in town etc.

This area of central Baja has an excellent security patrol operated by the fishing cooperatives who do rounds 24/7 on all remote beach roads as they watch for poachers. This makes it very safe and the vigilancia guys usually stop and chat with people out in remote areas to see if they are OK or need anything from town etc. I feel extremely safe and are often by myself in remote areas.
Some people are frightened by the patrols thinking they are the bad guys coming to do harm so if you dont speak spanish you may have a hard time understanding what they are saying but they are there to protect you.

There are many places that are well know to be sketchy and dangerous and one need to know where these places are. When I have suggested to stay away from certain places people often discount the info and go there anyway. Bad things happen in known dangerous areas...especially between TJ & San Quintin.

Thanks, Shari. This makes me feel a bit better.

JZ - 5-5-2024 at 10:01 PM

Quote: Originally posted by US 41

I've driven into Mexico three times, all with my own vehicle, but I kind of doubt I'll ever take my own personal vehicle into Mexico again. I still plan on traveling to Mexico in the future including both BC states, but it will be in a rental car. I guess if someone wants the rental car they can have it, that's what the theft insurance is for. Not chancing losing my car though. Of course that means I'll have to fly to Mexico now, but at least I'll be able to avoid the border areas and the crooked border town cops looking to make a buck from American drivers.

I'm not against "camping" in the car at a truck stop or a rest area in a well lit area (away from the city) where there's plenty of people around, but I won't "camp" in any secluded areas anymore. Did that when I was 18 or 19 in the Big Bend Park in Texas and looking back that was probably pretty stupid. In Mexico there's so many cheap and clean hotels that are $40 USD or less that "camping" in the car doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me anymore anyways.

I've taken my trucks to Sonora and Baja 50+ times over the last 15 years.

The area where this happened has been well know for sketchy stuff for nearly 20 years. Get below the border and away from the population as quickly as you can.

BajaBlanca - 5-5-2024 at 11:37 PM

I am still in shock over these senseless deaths. Even though we are now in Poland (far away), I feel the deaths and grieve for the families.

Camping remotely is not a good idea any more - drugs make monsters.

Marc - 5-6-2024 at 05:52 AM

Does anyone believe justice will be done??
People....this is Mexico!

watizname - 5-6-2024 at 07:25 AM

Quote: Originally posted by US 41

Years and years ago, when you got thru Tijuana, you were 'safe'. Then, it was Rosarito. --Ahhhh, now I'm safe. Then, Ensenada.--- Boy, glad I'm safe now. Then----San Quintin----Now ---Gone are the days of the real freedom and relaxation felt when traveling in Baja. My heart goes out to the families of these boys. Read Ron Hoff's article, and take care.

SFandH - 5-6-2024 at 08:06 AM

Quote: Originally posted by watizname

Yup, lots of bad guys around these days all over the peninsula, and the bigger the population, the more bad guys.

I still feel safe almost anywhere on the peninsula during the day. However, you need to be somewhere safe at night. Spending the night at remote beaches anywhere on the peninsula is a bad idea unless there are groups of other campers nearby. If you're the only campsite, you're a sitting duck.

wilderone - 5-6-2024 at 09:26 AM

Maybe the tide will start to turn for the better: "On Sunday [5/5/24], dozens of mourners, surfers and demonstrators gathered in a main plaza in Ensenada, the nearest city, to voice their anger and sadness at the deaths."
As to searching for the rancher - who would have thought to look THERE.

Bajazly - 5-6-2024 at 11:22 AM

Quote: Originally posted by US 41

...Did that when I was 18 or 19 in the Big Bend Park in Texas and looking back that was probably pretty stupid...

Why pray tell is camping in a national park "pretty stupid"?

surabi - 5-6-2024 at 11:37 AM

As to searching for the rancher - who would have thought to look THERE.

Why did they think to look there for the surfer boys? I'd suspect no one bothered to look very thoroughly for the rancher. And what's the back story on that? Why was he killed? Did they steal his truck, too? Same body disposal site, same perps?

David K - 5-6-2024 at 11:48 AM

Don't forget about Mary Ann Humfreville.
Her truck was stolen in the middle of the night, in a area of beach homes along Bahía de los Angeles. A harmless older lady, living alone, since her 'author and Nomad' husband Mike died. Her body was never found. Like the white Chevy of the surfers was, her red Ford was found burned almost beyond recognition to conceal the crime, under a Hwy. 1 bridge near El Crucero.

surabi - 5-6-2024 at 12:00 PM

And there was that guy who was a veteran Baja traveler and camper who disappeared while camping near Todos Santos, as I recall. And the guy who disappeared while driving from his home on the east cape, to San Jose del Cabo (as I recall) during the day.
What happened with those cases? Were they or their vehicles ever found?

BeachSeeker - 5-6-2024 at 12:33 PM

And there was that guy who was a veteran Baja traveler and camper who disappeared while camping near Todos Santos, as I recall.

Wilmer Trivett went Missing Feb 11 2023, his camper was found burned Feb 23, and his body was found April 6. 2 suspects arrested. I guess Trivett backed his camper into the suspect's car some time before he went missing. He paid them some money for backing into them. Apparently it wasn't enough and they went back for more.

And the guy who disappeared while driving from his home on the east cape, to San Jose del Cabo (as I recall) during the day.
What happened with those cases? Were they or their vehicles ever found?

Craig Harrison? This is the last missing person I remember from that area. Had a home in Cabo. Body found in Cabo Pulmo in 2020.

cupcake - 5-6-2024 at 12:38 PM

As to searching for the rancher - who would have thought to look THERE.

The authorities might have gotten the ´well location´ from interrogating the woman they apprehended, the woman they found via the victim´s phone that she was carrying.

[Edited on 5-6-2024 by cupcake]

BeachSeeker - 5-6-2024 at 12:45 PM

This is an absolute tragedy that never should have happened. The deaths are absolutely senseless and very saddening. However, the response is like a broken record at this point. Anytime Americans are murdered in Baja, all the negative people like to point out how they were right about Mexico being unsafe and that no one should ever go there.

All the while, 2 people were shot yesterday about a mile from my house in San Diego and I didn't hear a peep about it. There's hardly a few paragraph news article about it online. https://fox5sandiego.com/news/local-news/police-search-for-s...

Last week, again about a mile from my house, a guy was shot and killed. Maybe it got a 3 seconds mention as they transitioned to the next story. https://fox5sandiego.com/news/local-news/arrest-made-in-fata...

Things happen. Criminals commit crimes. Drug addicts and bad people do bad things. Do the best you can to prevent being a victim, and never risk your life for physical possessions, especially insured ones. Fear isn't going to stop me from living my life.

[Edited on 5-6-2024 by BeachSeeker]

surabi - 5-6-2024 at 01:07 PM

David answered this a few posts back.

Tioloco - 5-6-2024 at 01:08 PM

No, MaryAnn has not been found

BajaNomad - 5-6-2024 at 04:18 PM

"On Sunday [5/5/24], dozens of mourners, surfers and demonstrators gathered in a main plaza in Ensenada, the nearest city, to voice their anger and sadness at the deaths."

https://abc7.com/3-bodies-found-in-mexico-identified-as-miss...

As to searching for the rancher - who would have thought to look THERE.

Why did they think to look there for the surfer boys?

If recollection serves me, the well was found on a property where an otherwise abandoned home was found with food and/or evidence of being recently utilized... with an implication of being connected to those who were arrested. Perhaps the boarded-up well was found after this home was first found/searched, etc.
:?:

[Edited on 5-6-2024 by BajaNomad]

mtgoat666 - 5-6-2024 at 05:12 PM

Quote: Originally posted by cupcake

As to searching for the rancher - who would have thought to look THERE.

We may never know the granular details of how the investigation chose to investigate where and when.
That said,… in watching the sunday press conference by the prosecutor, they showed some slides/photos which gave me the impression that the well was located close to the tents, like on the order of a few hundred meters distance.

Bodies in wells seems to be a theme this week. We got the rancher and surfers in this well. And just a day ago they found several bodies in a well in rosarito.

I also recall another murder of americans a few years back in baja where the bodies were dumped in a well.

[Edited on 5-7-2024 by mtgoat666]

David K - 5-6-2024 at 05:19 PM

Yes, from El Socorro or Socorrito, south of San Quintín.

cupcake - 5-6-2024 at 05:45 PM

It has been reported that when the three young men resisted having their truck stolen, one of the thiefs took out a gun and started shooting.

I recall other instances when people commiting this type of murder claim that the resisting of the theft caused the victims to be shot.´Íf only they hadn´t resisted´...it seems like the perpetrators are saying this to take the edge off of what they have done. I mean, wouldn´t a shot into the ground put an end to ´the resistance´?

[Edited on 5-7-2024 by cupcake]

AKgringo - 5-6-2024 at 06:34 PM

I'm pretty sure that the thugs were more concerned with leaving witnesses than overcoming resistance.

mtgoat666 - 5-6-2024 at 07:02 PM

Quote: Originally posted by cupcake

´Íf only they hadn´t resisted´...it seems like the perpetrators are saying this to take the edge off of what they have done. I mean, wouldn´t a shot into the ground put an end to ´the resistance´?

[Edited on 5-7-2024 by cupcake]

The prosecutor HYPOTHESIZED that the victims were shot resisting. The prosecutor apparently has no direct evidence, and possibly was victim blaming.
The perps are likely psycopaths and meth heads, they probably have no inhibitions and shoot for little to no reason

stillnbaja - 5-6-2024 at 07:07 PM

im reading (including world news tonight) that perps were after the truck tires, photo's of the burned truck clearly show the wheels still on it?
wtf??

surabi - 5-6-2024 at 07:11 PM

Exactly. Any sane person, when having a gun pointed at them, being given the choice of their truck or their life, is going to tell them to take the truck. I doubt they were resisting. Maybe trying to verbally reason with them, at the most.

Some friends of mine had a home invasion one evening while sitting on the sofa watching the Oscars. The front door to the living room where they were sitting was open, as it normally was when they were home. It wasn't a remote area- it's a neighborhood with other houses on all sides.

3 guys suddenly appeared, brandishing knives and carrying a rope. The woman of the couple was a fast thinker- she instantly and surreptitiously pushed her phone off the coffee table with her foot that had been resting there, kicking it under the sofa. Then she told the perps that they had friends with kids coming over to watch the show with them in 5 minutes, please not to tie them up, as the kids would be traumatized if they saw that, just take what they wanted and get out. (She was fluent in Spanish).

The perps did exactly that. They took the husband's phone, as well as his toolbox, laptop, and other stuff, but they were able to call 911 immediately because of her quick thinking in hiding her phone.
The perps were caught a couple weeks later, because they had done another home invasion nearby a week before that, where they stole the woman's truck, and were so stupid they were driving it around the area.

[Edited on 5-7-2024 by surabi]

wilderone - 5-7-2024 at 07:43 AM

"And just a day ago they found several bodies in a well in rosarito." Do you have more info on this? News report?

PaulW - 5-7-2024 at 07:47 AM

What is the deal.
I saw a picture of the truck with its wheels and not burned, then then a picture of it burned with wheels.
Photoshop?

mtgoat666 - 5-7-2024 at 07:52 AM

"And just a day ago they found several bodies in a well in rosarito." Do you have more info on this? News report?

re-reading it, seems like thy found one body...

from https://www.facebook.com/Patrulla.646

Familiares encuentran a una mujer que fue asesinada y arrojada a un pozo en Rosarito #ComparteEstaNota
La tarde del sábado 4 de mayo fueron localizados los restos de una mujer, los cuales fueron arrojados en bolsas dentro de un pozo de agua.
La Secretaría de Seguridad Ciudadana dio a conocer que el hecho fue reportado al 9-1-1 a las 16:23, cuando los oficiales fueron enviados al rancho Escondido, ubicado cerca del corredor 2000, en el cañón Rosarito.
La parte reportante indicó que junto con familiares de la víctima, identificada como Claudia P. L., andaban en su búsqueda cuando encontraron algo sospechoso en en el pozo, de 1.5 metros por lado y 4 a 6 metros de profundidad.
Debido a las características del pozo, los preventivos solicitaron el apoyo del Cuerpo de Bomberos de la misma dependencia, quienes confirmaron que se trataba de restos humanos.
Los oficiales observaron que en una de las cabañas había una piedra con manchas pardorrojizas, por lo que procedieron a asegurar el área y dejarla a cargo de la Fiscalía General del Estado (FGE).
Extraoficialmente, se informó que fue detenida una persona del sexo masculino por su presuntamente participación en los hechos, cuyo esclarecimiento se encuentra a cargo de la FGE.

[Edited on 5-7-2024 by mtgoat666]

wilderone - 5-7-2024 at 09:21 AM

And 3 days ago, a shootout in San Quintin: Nowadays, not the Baja of my experience. Grateful for those experiences - Baja may be in my rearview mirror now.

"Two dead and one injured after armed attacks in San Quintin
Two men died and another was injured after two armed attacks occurred last night and this Friday morning on the public road of San Quintin
According to preliminary information, the first of the cases occurred around 9:00 p.m. on General Abelardo L. Street.. Rodriguez from the colony New Baja California.
At the scene, the Municipal Police visualized on the street a man between 30 and 35 years old, lying upside down, with visible injuries to the head. Before this, technicians at the Emergency Medical Center of the Red Cross determined he was lacking vital signs.
Derived from the same attack, in the yard of a quarter under construction black an injured person was located. The victim, aged between 45 and 50, had reddish grey spots on the head. In his condition, he was moved to a nosocomia to receive emergency medical care.
On their part, the second of the events occurred after 7:00 in the morning on the Eleven Street of the Paseo San Quintin colony.
On an unembroiled building was an injured person, approximately 1.60 meters and brown complexion. On one side, at least five shell casings were appreciated. Following a review by emergency medical technicians, they confirmed there was no vital signs."

SFandH - 5-7-2024 at 10:46 AM