BajaNomad

Boats Seized

bajaguy - 11-29-2013 at 01:44 PM

From ensenada.net
Article posted November 28, 2013
by Elizabeth Vargas

Although the Ministry of Finance and Public Credit (SHCP), through the Tax Administration Service (SAT) anunción the provisional seizure of vessels in nine Mexican ports including Ensenada, does not exist in the departments administering the Port information on this operation.

Neither the Port Authority nor the Puerto captaincy were briefed on this operation, if that were foreclosed and type boats were, fishing, cargo, tourism, fishing, children, yachts or for scrap.

This Thursday in a statement the Ministry of Finance and Public Credit (SHCP), through the Tax Administration Service (SAT), said in a press release as part of the inspection activities carried out in foreign trade, during an operation conducted at ports 7 entities to review the legal status and ownership of vessels, held the provisional seizure of 338 ships.

The provisional seizure was the result of different visitation orders to identify the legal origin of 691 thousand vessels, in order to check whether they have the necessary documentation for their tenure and stay in the country.

By not display the requested documentation, we proceeded to the precautionary seizure of the units.

The owners of the ships, have a period of 10 days to offer evidence and prove legal residence in the country, otherwise, will be held the corresponding implementation process within up to 4 months.

The Government of the Republic confirms once again its commitment to monitor compliance with fiscal obligations, customs and foreign trade for the benefit of all Mexicans.

capitolkat - 11-29-2013 at 05:45 PM

The manager of my marina here in La Paz said the local tax folks were examining paperwork of boats in the marina and if all was not correct the boats were being seized/ Since I have a TIP and Coast Guard registration, and insurance I think I'm good to go. Anybody have anything different?

Jack Swords - 11-29-2013 at 06:40 PM

What marina, what boat?

Hook - 11-29-2013 at 08:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by capitolkat
The manager of my marina here in La Paz said the local tax folks were examining paperwork of boats in the marina and if all was not correct the boats were being seized/ Since I have a TIP and Coast Guard registration, and insurance I think I'm good to go. Anybody have anything different?


Make sure you have legal status in Mexico, if you are down here.

A LOT of Boats ?

MrBillM - 11-29-2013 at 08:32 PM

691 THOUSAND ?

freediverbrian - 11-29-2013 at 08:58 PM

338 boats seized out of 690,000 very small number so far. If they start sezing untitled or uninsured cars, buggies and trucks the number would be higher

BajaNomad - 11-29-2013 at 09:54 PM

Sent to me in a private message:
Quote:

...those boats [that were seized] are not properly licensed for charter... the authorities are catching up with the untold many making money on residential rentals and car rentals too.






[Edited on 11-30-2013 by BajaNomad]

UnoMas - 11-29-2013 at 10:55 PM

Times are a changing in Mexico! If you want to operate a charter business or a rental business you should do it per Mexican law and pay the taxes just like you would NOB unless you want to risk everything, no more I am taking friends fishing or they are staying in my (rental) aka guest house...Looks like the free ride is over. Seen it going on for many years and it is time to pay up or get out of the business...JMO.:light:

Hook - 11-30-2013 at 06:08 AM

Hmmm, wonder if they will go after all the people operating a "Mexican corporation" under the guise of owning a home without a fideicomiso?

BajaNomad - 11-30-2013 at 06:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajaguy

during an operation conducted at ports 7 entities



"Cabo San Lucas y San José del Cabo, en Baja California Sur; Ensenada, en Baja California; La Cruz de Huanacaxtle, en Nayarit; San Carlos Nuevo Guaymas, en Sonora; Acapulco, en Guerrero; Puerto Vallarta, en Jalisco, y Benito Juárez, en Quintana Roo."

http://www.sat.gob.mx/sitio_internet/servicios/noticias_bole...
http://ensenada.net/noticias/nota.php?id=32145




[Edited on 11-30-2013 by BajaNomad]

monoloco - 11-30-2013 at 07:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by MrBillM
691 THOUSAND ?
I kind of doubt that there are 691000 boats in Mexico. What is the source of the article?

monoloco - 11-30-2013 at 07:51 AM

Turns out it's 1691 vessels. From Baja Nomad's link:

"El embargo precautorio fue resultado de distintas órdenes de visita para identificar la procedencia legal de mil 691 embarcaciones,"

Mil 691 is somewhat different that 691 mil.:?:

Timo1 - 11-30-2013 at 08:19 AM

692....we brought ours :tumble: :spingrin:

larryC - 11-30-2013 at 08:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hook
Hmmm, wonder if they will go after all the people operating a "Mexican corporation" under the guise of owning a home without a fideicomiso?


Here in BoLA, Hacienda came out and checked some "corporations" and now all those people have signs in front of their properties advertising that they are in the real estate business. Hope it is not the beginning of a bad chapter around here.

micah202 - 11-30-2013 at 09:15 AM

.
....so no worries if you're not chartering??
...or is there some documentation required for bringing personal pleasure craft to Baja?

[Edited on 11-30-2013 by micah202]

Hook - 11-30-2013 at 09:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by larryC

Here in BoLA, Hacienda came out and checked some "corporations" and now all those people have signs in front of their properties advertising that they are in the real estate business. Hope it is not the beginning of a bad chapter around here.


And probably paying taxes and filing with Hacienda, regularly.

DianaT - 11-30-2013 at 09:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by larryC
Quote:
Originally posted by Hook
Hmmm, wonder if they will go after all the people operating a "Mexican corporation" under the guise of owning a home without a fideicomiso?


Here in BoLA, Hacienda came out and checked some "corporations" and now all those people have signs in front of their properties advertising that they are in the real estate business. Hope it is not the beginning of a bad chapter around here.


That does not sound good. :no:

Hook - 11-30-2013 at 09:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by micah202
.
....so no worries if you're not chartering??
...or is there some documentation required for bringing personal pleasure craft to Baja?

[Edited on 11-30-2013 by micah202]


Over here, the 10 year TIP is practically mandatory, these days. At least it's reasonable at about 50.00 US for the 10 years.

I really DOUBT they were checking trailerables in this sweep. Bigger fish to fry, and all that.........

bajaguy - 11-30-2013 at 09:27 AM

It does not sound good that they are enforcing the regulations or the law???
Quote:
Originally posted by DianaT
Quote:
Originally posted by larryC
Quote:
Originally posted by Hook
Hmmm, wonder if they will go after all the people operating a "Mexican corporation" under the guise of owning a home without a fideicomiso?


Here in BoLA, Hacienda came out and checked some "corporations" and now all those people have signs in front of their properties advertising that they are in the real estate business. Hope it is not the beginning of a bad chapter around here.


That does not sound good. :no:

DianaT - 11-30-2013 at 09:36 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajaguy
It does not sound good that they are enforcing the regulations or the law???


Quote:
Originally posted by DianaT
Quote:
Originally posted by larryC
Quote:
Originally posted by Hook
Hmmm, wonder if they will go after all the people operating a "Mexican corporation" under the guise of owning a home without a fideicomiso?


Here in BoLA, Hacienda came out and checked some "corporations" and now all those people have signs in front of their properties advertising that they are in the real estate business. Hope it is not the beginning of a bad chapter around here.


That does not sound good. :no:



Opps, what I wrote sounds like I don't think they should enforce the laws and that is not what I meant. --- I should have been clearer. It does not sound good for the people who have not followed the law either intentionally or because they received incorrect advice from an attorney, or maybe as we have been told, there are nuances in the law that can be used differently. I am not sure the law is real specific and I imagine there are legal ways to to circumvent the law if indeed it is specific??? For the sake of others, it would be interesting to know exactly what happened with the people in BOLA. And more information about the law from people who do know the specifics of the law.






[Edited on 11-30-2013 by DianaT]

Hook - 11-30-2013 at 09:36 AM

I had always heard ( there's no shortage of chismorreo in Mexico) that you can't LEGALLY have your primary residence in Mexico tied up in a Mexican corporation. Can anyone refute or substantiate this with chapter and verse from a Mexican government website?

Just saying your abogado told you it was legal has a little less clout, IMO. :biggrin:

woody with a view - 11-30-2013 at 11:47 AM

to micahs question, a boat over 14' (i believe that is the length) must be TIP'd (temp import permit) if you are a legal resident.

otherwise, you are not supposed to leave anything if you are a tourist=non resident.

anyone know how that goes on leased property for a tourist about leaving a tin boat? i guess it is not keeping with the law?

msteve1014 - 11-30-2013 at 12:19 PM

If they don't like your tin boat, how will they feel about your trailer?

I don't think they are that picky, yet.

[Edited on 11-30-2013 by msteve1014]

Jack Swords - 11-30-2013 at 01:16 PM

Most of the boats in Marina de la Paz are owned by non-residents who spend time in Mexico on a tourist card. That is probably true throughout Mexico. They are, for the most part, legally imported (TIP) or face consequences. Several years ago boats were "seized" in Mazatlan and chained to the dock and warnings went out about getting the TIP. We have been there for 15 years, renewed our TIP after its 10 year expiration. Not a big deal, show ownership, pay $50, get a spiffy certificate and a decal.

O.G. - 11-30-2013 at 03:17 PM

Quote:
Not a big deal, show ownership, pay $50, get a spiffy certificate and a decal.

My boat was also "seized" in Ensenada. I have a TIP for it but left my old, expired CA registration numbers on the hull. That is what caused some confusion and resulted in my boat being "seized" for 10 days i.e., cannot be moved for 10 days. What is this DECAL that comes with getting a TIP?

Reeljob - 11-30-2013 at 03:44 PM

In Cabo it was an audit of the Marina by, well, here is the letter sent to all boats:


As you may be aware there was an audit conducted on the marina yesterday by Servicio de Administraciónn Tributaria, (SAT). This was as part of a national incentive and Cabo Marina was one of seven selected. The primary purpose of this visit was to check the status and validity of temporary import licensees. Unfortunately your vessel was recorded as not having “presented” the correct paperwork.
I would reiterate at this moment that we at Marina Cabo San Lucas did everything within our power to minimize the effect on our customers. Both ourselves and a team of lawyers retained by us, worked through the night, boat by boat, to try and resolve this issue and were in most cases successful. Additionally we believe we are unique in being the only marina to have opened up a chain of communication with the authorities that should allow for a speedy lifting of the embargo against your vessel. In order to complete it we will require a copy of your existing (and extant) paperwork, most importantly those papers that relate to either proving your vessel is a Mexican boat or your temporary import permit.
We are offering this service solely to be of assistance and take no liability for its success or otherwise and you remain; of course, free to negotiate directly with the authorities.

Please be aware that it is your responsibility to have the temporary import licenses. If you have a copy we appreciate to please bring by the office to update your files.

Although I had already given them a copy, I took my import permit back in they copied it again and said everything was OK.

If you are not a legal Mexican boat or don't have an import permit your troubles may be just beginning.

Hook - 11-30-2013 at 03:56 PM

Reeljob, was there any indication that a current US registration is part of the requirement? Lots of us have gotten the 10 year TIP and allowed our US registration expire.

Sounds like they are wanting a valid TIP only, no?

capitolkat - 11-30-2013 at 05:10 PM

To answer the question to me/ I'm in Marina Costa Baja= prefer not to identify my boat here as it's a privately owned boat not used for any business purposes, I have the TIP, and the decal is prominently posted on the boat, the marina has a copy, along with my current Coast Guard certification, and current insurance.

[Edited on 12-1-2013 by capitolkat]

Reeljob - 11-30-2013 at 06:06 PM

Actually, the Marina and the auditors want to see the TIP AND the current registration. My boat is documented and you must renew the document every year and they want a copy of the CURRENT document.

Pacifico - 11-30-2013 at 07:10 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by O.G.
Not a big deal, show ownership, pay $50, get a spiffy certificate and a decal.

My boat was also "seized" in Ensenada. I have a TIP for it but left my old, expired CA registration numbers on the hull. That is what caused some confusion and resulted in my boat being "seized" for 10 days i.e., cannot be moved for 10 days. What is this DECAL that comes with getting a TIP?


I have the TIP, but not the decal for the boat. Does the decal come with the TIP?

O.G. - 11-30-2013 at 08:29 PM

Yea, what is this "decal"?

capitolkat - 11-30-2013 at 09:03 PM

When I got the TIP in the mail there was a decal -like a car registration- about 6x6 inches in color, with the same information on the paper form. put it on the boat when it got here

Alan - 11-30-2013 at 11:11 PM

I just got my TIP last time in La Paz and thyere wasn't any decals.

capitolkat - 12-1-2013 at 11:38 AM

alan-- what can I say -- It's Mexico and if we're looking for uniformity we need to look somewhere else. I got mine in August 2012 through the mail to a US address so I could have the boat hauled to La Paz. Needed it for the hauling company at immigration.

Alan - 12-1-2013 at 02:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by capitolkat
alan-- what can I say -- It's Mexico and if we're looking for uniformity we need to look somewhere else. I got mine in August 2012 through the mail to a US address so I could have the boat hauled to La Paz. Needed it for the hauling company at immigration.
How True! Are you still in La Paz? I'm north for the holidays but headed back down once the YT show.

capitolkat - 12-1-2013 at 08:39 PM

Yes Alan-- here until March , but stay most of the year with occasional trip up north.

Alan - 12-3-2013 at 01:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by capitolkat
Yes Alan-- here until March , but stay most of the year with occasional trip up north.
I'll be returning in Feb. We can take my boat out, it's cheaper (one engine).

capitolkat - 12-3-2013 at 10:28 AM

It's a deal--Norm

sailgal - 1-10-2014 at 05:00 PM

Here is a link to Latitude38 story on this. The publisher's catamaran was impounded.
http://www.latitude38.com/lectronic/lectronicday.lasso?date=...

LATITDE 38=MY BIBLE

captkw - 1-10-2014 at 07:22 PM

Hola,for those that don't know,, your find a lot of Baja/mex in each issue!! .folks from all over the planet send in letters and really good storys...a travel and boaters bible !! If your into maybe helping on this matter: you can go to the above "latitude 38" links above and when your on the story scrow down bellow the story and there are links that make it SO easy to send a fast email to the powers at B to help change situation for the better....Thanks in advance...K&T:cool:

dtbushpilot - 1-11-2014 at 12:23 AM

Got my TIP last year in La Paz, got the decal.

apogee - 1-11-2014 at 07:08 PM

MEXICO -- Starting around Dec.7 of last year, several Americans with boats docked in marinas located throughout Mexico had their vessels boarded and subsequently impounded by the SAT (Mexico’s IRS) over the course of several weeks. At press time, a total of 338 boats were reported to have been impounded.

- See more at: http://www.thelog.com/Local/Article/....Tx1PVqxr.dpuf

micah202 - 1-12-2014 at 08:53 AM

.

...and here's a result of the SAT's actions... http://cdmtocabo.com/2014Race/

....how many permit's will they need to sell to re-gain this lo$$??

rts551 - 1-12-2014 at 09:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by micah202
.

...and here's a result of the SAT's actions... http://cdmtocabo.com/2014Race/

....how many permit's will they need to sell to re-gain this lo$$??


direct result? I read it as a combination of things. I also think 5 bucks a year is cheap fora permit that allows Mexico to keep track of what comes into their country..

" Economic conditions, recent events in Mexico affecting boaters, difficulty in landing sponsors and the general state of offshore keelboat racing in Southern California all combined to make it very challenging to host this race in 2014."

Information on Boat Seizures in Mexico

sequoyah - 1-18-2014 at 05:39 PM

I attended a meeting the other night of the Cruceros Cruisers Club in La Paz.

They had a guest who seemed to be very well informed about the recent issues with boat seizures, both in Baja and on the mainland.

I will try to summarize as best I can what he had to say.

Due to a new administration, a decision was made to enforce the rules regarding Temporary Import Permits (TIP's).

When one brings their boat into Mexican waters, they must either have or obtain a TIP. The cost is relatively low and they are good for multiple years.

The forms that had been used for TIP for boats were originally intended for road vehicles. As a result, there were problems with some of the fields.

The biggest problem was that the applications asked for a VIN. Boats don't have VIN's. Some don't even have hull numbers.

People filled this field with a variety of numbers - their documentation numbers, the numbers on their engines, their state registration numbers and sometimes their hull numbers.

When the inspectors swarmed some of the marinas, they had handheld devices. They would look for HULL numbers and enter these into their devices.

If there was no match, they impounded the boats. Since so many of the numbers in this field were wrong, a large number of boats were impounded.

As individuals have gotten updated TIP's with accurate information, boats have been released. According to him, most boats have been released at this time. The ones still held are those for which an updated TIP has not been obtained.

In the meantime, the press in the US and elsewhere has been extremely negative. In light of this, the government has stopped the program for now. However, they could reinstitute it at any time.

It is important that anyone with a boat check their boat and make sure the hull number is in the field that lists "VIN". It is also important that this number be somewhere on the boat where it can be seen and read. There will be problems if your boat does not have a hull number, and I am not sure how that is being addressed.

The TIP comes with a sticker. Again, because the form is meant for cars, the instructions are to put this below your rear view mirror.

Due to their generally not being a rear view mirror on a boat, lol, and these stickers not being very weather resistant, he advised people to not attach the stickers. He did advise to make a COLOR copy of your TIP, take a picture of the hull number and attach these to your boat if you are not going to be aboard.

That's about all I know. I think the immediate crisis has passed, but there could be issues in the future.

Oh, and if you don't have a TIP, I would strongly advise you to get one ASAP.

boats from the US

captkw - 1-18-2014 at 06:25 PM

smaller vessels since april 1972 have a VIN on the outer starboard transom..larger vessels are documented with the U.S.C.G or regged with the DMV of the state the boat was purchased in !!! ....K&T:cool::cool:

BajaNomad - 1-18-2014 at 06:36 PM

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=71603

weebray - 1-18-2014 at 09:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by captkw
smaller vessels since april 1972 have a VIN on the outer starboard transom..larger vessels are documented with the U.S.C.G or regged with the DMV of the state the boat was purchased in !!! ....K&T:cool::cool:


Hogwash. My boat made around 1990 (depending on which paper you use) in England has NO number anywhere on the boat. The "paperwork" says it is hull #9. There is a "9" on the original mainsail, I guess that's the documented proof?

willardguy - 1-18-2014 at 10:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by weebray
Quote:
Originally posted by captkw
smaller vessels since april 1972 have a VIN on the outer starboard transom..larger vessels are documented with the U.S.C.G or regged with the DMV of the state the boat was purchased in !!! ....K&T:cool::cool:


Hogwash. My boat made around 1990 (depending on which paper you use) in England has NO number anywhere on the boat. The "paperwork" says it is hull #9. There is a "9" on the original mainsail, I guess that's the documented proof?
(I think you missed cappy's subject line,"boats from the u.s."):yes:

[Edited on 1-19-2014 by willardguy]

Hook - 1-19-2014 at 07:04 AM

sequoyah, that is probably the most complete description I have read of what occurred. Thank you for that.

But you mention "In light of this, the government has stopped the program for now." Do you mean the TIP program or just the enforcement effort? Certainly, they couldnt suspend the TIP program, I would think.

One thing not mentioned is that there are still TIPS out there that have not expired that did not come with a sticker. It appears these were issued around 2003 or 4 up till maybe 2006 or so. I know a couple people who got theirs in 2005 and never got a sticker.

fourninerpapa - 1-19-2014 at 07:54 AM

Does this apply to kayaks, canoes or inflatables such as Zodiacs?

Alan - 1-19-2014 at 08:36 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dtbushpilot
Got my TIP last year in La Paz, got the decal.
So did I but I didn't get a sticker?

sequoyah - 1-19-2014 at 10:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hook
sequoyah, that is probably the most complete description I have read of what occurred. Thank you for that.

But you mention "In light of this, the government has stopped the program for now." Do you mean the TIP program or just the enforcement effort? Certainly, they couldnt suspend the TIP program, I would think.

One thing not mentioned is that there are still TIPS out there that have not expired that did not come with a sticker. It appears these were issued around 2003 or 4 up till maybe 2006 or so. I know a couple people who got theirs in 2005 and never got a sticker.


He said they had stopped the enforcement program until they could get some things straightened out, but advised that they could restart it anywhere at any time.

In terms of TIP's without stickers, he advised taking them in for updating, if possible, but did not think it was critical to do so.

Just might save some significant hassle if they do come to your boat.

Jack Swords - 1-19-2014 at 10:54 AM

Many folks do not realize the "sticker" is part of the TIP and attached to the back of the document.

Alan - 1-19-2014 at 11:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jack Swords
Many folks do not realize the "sticker" is part of the TIP and attached to the back of the document.
So do we take it off and put on our boat or keep it affixed to the TIP?

Sir weebray

captkw - 1-20-2014 at 12:12 AM

AS pointed out here I stated boats from The USA...If you think for a second your in a postion to argue with me about ADMARTI law lets go.....all us made vessels since april 1972 have a vin # on the outer starboard transom...not up for debate!! there are boats built in many other places that have other rules !! I Think you might want to look up the "furgensen act" in regard to vessel regs of the USA...BTW most ships are not regged in the USA but Nassau...Fact!!

VIN???? - Frayed Knot

bajaguy - 1-20-2014 at 07:52 AM

FYI......It's a HIN (Hull Identification Number), not a VIN (Vehicle Identification Number).

Also if you use the terminology "HIN Number" or "VIN Number" you are being redundant:

HIN Number = Hull Identification Number Number
VIN Number = Vehicle Identification Number Number

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Ship_Hull_numbers
Quote:
Originally posted by captkw
AS pointed out here I stated boats from The USA...If you think for a second your in a postion to argue with me about ADMARTI law lets go.....all us made vessels since april 1972 have a vin # on the outer starboard transom...not up for debate!!




[Edited on 1-20-2014 by bajaguy]

OK..your sorta right !!

captkw - 1-20-2014 at 10:22 AM

AS a EX boat dealer,, I can tell you if you go in to DMV CA and say,,write,, HIN you will get blank looks from the clerks...its normal to say,,write VIN....Just the way it is...with a "bill of Laden" and a HIN/VIN is the start of the process to reg a boat from the factory...SO...yes you are correct in the thought process.. but in the real world its is referred as the VIN....

jimgrms - 1-20-2014 at 10:27 AM

seems like all boat owners .that do not have whats required in the way of paperwork.. will need to do whats required to get it , instead of just asking board members

Info

bajaguy - 1-20-2014 at 10:31 AM

From "The Log"

http://www.thelog.com/Local/

BOAT READS

captkw - 1-20-2014 at 10:39 AM

tHE lOG" IS SOCAL ONLY.."...LATITUDE 38 is the boaters bible !! also for the PNW is "YACHTING" also a good read !!

sequoyah - 1-20-2014 at 02:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Alan
Quote:
Originally posted by Jack Swords
Many folks do not realize the "sticker" is part of the TIP and attached to the back of the document.
So do we take it off and put on our boat or keep it affixed to the TIP?


We were advised to not detach it. It's very unclear where you would put it and it's not very weather resistant.

Instead, it was suggested that you make a color copy of it and attach that somewhere on the exterior of your boat.

bajaguy - 1-20-2014 at 08:02 PM

The Log link referenced has information regarding the seizures and releases of the boats we are discussing in this thread
Quote:
Originally posted by captkw
tHE lOG" IS SOCAL ONLY.."...LATITUDE 38 is the boaters bible !! also for the PNW is "YACHTING" also a good read !!

BCS Sec of Tourism comments about Los Cabos

pacsur - 2-14-2014 at 03:25 PM

http://www.bcsnoticias.mx/?p=3049

sd - 2-14-2014 at 03:40 PM

Had coffee with some boaters in Newport Beach this morning who brought up the boat seizures. Bad publicity and bad for tourism!