BajaNomad - Gary Patton - Updated Jan. 5, 2015

Gary Patton - Updated Jan. 5, 2015

Pages: 1 .. 16 17 18 19 20 .. 24

DENNIS - 4-19-2014 at 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by absinvestor
I believe some Nomads knew Gary from prior trips.

That's news to me. I don't remember seeing it. :?:

EnsenadaDr - 4-19-2014 at 12:15 PM

Maybe the family could give us more clues as to when and what time the picture of the monument was taken. Was the picture of the monument similar to the one posted? What time of day was it or was there a time stamp? Was there a date and time stamp on the landscape pictures? Could you have someone help you post the pictures?

[Edited on 4-19-2014 by EnsenadaDr]

Mexitron - 4-19-2014 at 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
During my baja travels I always drive off any road for the night. Far enough so that the lights from neither my campfire nor the camper can be seen from the. I do have a 4WD now but did it with a 2WD previously by picking dirt roads judiciously.

The 2km road which I think I'm seeing in GE is pretty distinct. The side turn after that looks 'sketchy' (today's vernacular). I always figured that Gary just misjudged the softness of the sediment. That can happen to anyone. The best camping spots in such areas are the washes. You have clean sand, nearby rocks, and deadwood for campfire. Plus you are protected visually because they are often a bit lower (erosion).

Given the report drug activity in the area it's not surprising that he didn't camp right off that main road but was more cautious. Most of us would do that.

Again it's really hard to make really solid conclusions without seeing the place.

True also. It could simply be that he drove out from SQ and he was looking for a campsite and got stuck. Maybe it was raining. From there on who knows. Just seems like a lot of little incongruities that don't quite add up.

lizard lips - 4-19-2014 at 02:10 PM

Janene, the photos are with the camera……This has been mentioned many times. Garys son did not bring the camera back.

I have not posted for many reasons lately but the most important reason is I have a lot of work.

The only thing we can do right now is wait and see what the Pattons learn when they go to Catavina in May and do their own search. What is in the 4 Runner will tell us so much more.

When they do go in May and the rancher is not there then how will know exactly where the vehicle was found abandoned and do their own search?

keep the faith for now…….

EnsenadaDr - 4-19-2014 at 02:22 PM

Yes Lizard thanks hopefully the Pattons will go to the area before the rancher gets back but I realize with your busy schedule you cannot go there right now. In any case the Mexican police will not release property to anyone except the family. Well hopefully the Pattons will post all the pictures once they get full control of the camera and chips. So no one will know if the monument that was posted was the actual one Gary took and possibly stopped by the site until it is recognized by others here that know the area like Taco de Baja and Mexitron and David K. Assuming the rancher did a cursory check around the vehicle and found nothing maybe the pictures will lead to something.

BajaBlanca - 4-19-2014 at 06:49 PM

We know Gary personally from an earlier trip to our B&B but I have no idea whether he would camp that remotely or not.

Happy Easter Gary and Family. Wish you the best of luck in May.

Resource

bajaguy - 4-19-2014 at 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Hey.........is anyone going to bring up the use of Cadaver Dogs........?

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/vodrazka-610386-riggs-sea...

absinvestor - 4-19-2014 at 11:03 PM

Thanks BajaBlanca- I had thought that you mentioned that Gary had stayed at your place and thought maybe you had some knowledge of if he liked to camp remotely etc. In addition to being soft if sand gets wet (ie rain) it can become slicker than ice so I can understand how one could easily get stuck. It just seems so odd that nobody saw the truck for 6 months and of course the rancher's assertion that the truck only recently appeared. (Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe LL, who is the only one that has spoken in person to that rancher, believes him.)

DENNIS - 4-20-2014 at 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Hey.........is anyone going to bring up the use of Cadaver Dogs........?

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/vodrazka-610386-riggs-sea...

And, here I thought nobody listened to me. :lol:

Thanks, Terry.

SoCalPattonCrew - 4-23-2014 at 08:36 PM

Nomads: Yes, the family would consider canine assistance but it is quite doubtful we could ask American service companies to travel 12+ hours one-way into Baja, where there is no cell service and primitive accommodations. If you have any line on Mexican canine services such as this, please share.

R: Photo taken of the trucker monument was nearly identical to the one posted here, but from a slightly closer proximity according to my son, so Gary clearly pulled off the road to take the photo. All dates indicate he traveled at least this far on Sept 5th, the day he checked out of Jardinis. However, he could've taken a number of westward exits off the highway to/from coastal roads and parked /camped for extended periods of time before getting to the last known location near Arroyo- San Jose.
The photo is on Page 85, posted by David K. on April 18.
It is curious that Mama Espinoza's had no recollection of him nor the gas station near there because he surely would've stopped on his way down. However, by the time the family initiated the search w/the nomads doing extensive inquiring about Gary, may be they just didn't recall him this time.

Thank you to whomever posted Robert Frost poem, it was familiar and very touching... sadly sounding true.

bajaguy - 4-23-2014 at 08:53 PM

Quote:

I believe that the lady and dog mentioned in this article are volunteers. You might reach out to her and her organization:

Su Vodrazka
Search Dog Foundation
501 East Ojai Avenue
Ojai,California 93023

(888) 459-4376
(805) 640-1848Fax

www.searchdogfoundation.org

EnsenadaDr - 4-23-2014 at 10:15 PM

Rescue dogs are known in Spanish as perros adiestrados rescate
(trained dogs for rescue" or similarly, cadaver dogs, are known as "perros adiestrados busquedan por los restos" or dogs trained to look for remains. There are many articles on Google that are written about the Federal Police in Mexico in their scientific division that use the dogs for searches. Unfortunately many articles are in Spanish but when I return to Mexico this weekend I will go over to the PGR and ask them if they have any in the area of San Quintin.

Quote:

Originally posted by SoCalPattonCrew
Nomads: Yes, the family would consider canine assistance but it is quite doubtful we could ask American service companies to travel 12+ hours one-way into Baja, where there is no cell service and primitive accommodations. If you have any line on Mexican canine services such as this, please share.

R: Photo taken of the trucker monument was nearly identical to the one posted here, but from a slightly closer proximity according to my son, so Gary clearly pulled off the road to take the photo. All dates indicate he traveled at least this far on Sept 5th, the day he checked out of Jardinis. However, he could've taken a number of westward exits off the highway to/from coastal roads and parked /camped for extended periods of time before getting to the last known location near Arroyo- San Jose.
The photo is on Page 85, posted by David K. on April 18.
It is curious that Mama Espinoza's had no recollection of him nor the gas station near there because he surely would've stopped on his way down. However, by the time the family initiated the search w/the nomads doing extensive inquiring about Gary, may be they just didn't recall him this time.

Thank you to whomever posted Robert Frost poem, it was familiar and very touching... sadly sounding true.

[Edited on 4-24-2014 by EnsenadaDr]

David K - 4-23-2014 at 11:59 PM

You do realize that the truck was found over 100 miles from San Quintin...?

EnsenadaDr - 4-24-2014 at 02:06 AM

Well David, maybe you know something I don't. Mama Espinoza's I don't believe has a Canine training unit on its prenises in a town closer, such as El Rosario and Catavina has a Mayberry police station with a one man operation but maybe he has Rin Tin Tin in his backyard. I doubt even San Quintin has a unit like this but it's a heck of a lot closer than the United States where it was suggested to the family to bring a dog from. The whole idea doesn't seem feasible But since I am no expert on this area maybe you can suggest something. Maybe the Rancher has a cadaver dog on his property?? That would be even closer to the truck.

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
You do realize that the truck was found over 100 miles from San Quintin...?

[Edited on 4-24-2014 by EnsenadaDr]

EnsenadaDr - 4-24-2014 at 02:25 AM

Very close to the turnoff where the truck was found? About half way from San Quintin to BOLA? A good place to stretch your legs. Which brings us to another question, about 2 or 3 hours or so into the trip Gary decides to turn off and camp for the day after driving only a few hours?

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaNomad

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Between Kms 116 and 117 (37 miles south from El Rosario's Pemex station).

Right here:

http://goo.gl/maps/VeQ8d

EnsenadaDr - 4-24-2014 at 03:12 AM

I followed the road southeast a few miles on Google maps and the first place I came to was Rancho Descanso. Looks like it had a sign for food and gas. Here is the link to the area maybe someone knows it or can map it in relation to the turnoff and don't know if anyone checked for Gary there.

https://www.google.com/maps/@30.05151,-115.300655,3a,75y,90t...

DENNIS - 4-24-2014 at 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Here is the link to the area
https://www.google.com/maps/@30.05151,-115.300655,3a,75y,90t...

http://tinyurl.com/llztrjr

mulegejim - 4-24-2014 at 07:16 AM

I believe cadaver dogs are used to locate people trapped in somewhat confined places such as collapsed buildings and mud slides as just happened in the state of Washington. Gary's search would more seem like a "bloodhound" type operation and with the amount of time that has passed the trail may have as they say...gone cold.

latina - 4-24-2014 at 07:49 AM

On the subject of dogs....have you ever taken a dog out into the desert? They cannot walk a few steps without getting cactus needles or burrs stuck in their paws...which stops them in their tracks, and would render them useless at covering a huge undetermined search area.

absinvestor - 4-24-2014 at 08:18 AM

Latina- you are correct. We did purchase some leather booties for our dogs (in Alaska)that were meant to protect paws from the cold weather but they worked well in Arizona to protect from the extreme sidewalk temps and in Baja to help save the feet from getting stuck.

EnsenadaDr - 4-24-2014 at 09:19 AM

Saturday, September 17, 2011

Police dig in Utah desert in hunt for missing mom

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Dog handler Mona Dean McGinnis loads her cadaver dogs near the base of Topaz Mountain. (ASSOCIATED PRESS PHOTOS)
DELTA, Utah - More police officers joined a search for clues today in what authorities described as a shallow grave in the rugged Utah desert as part of a nearly two-year investigation into the disappearance of a missing mother.

Two previous days of digging have turned up nothing at the site, where the soil inspection process has taken so long that more searchers were enlisted along with a state anthropologist who is an expert in identifying human remains.

Investigators remained confident but acknowledged they still don't know whether the site is related to the disappearance of Susan Powell.

"We're all very hopeful," West Valley City Lt. Bill Merritt said. "I guess it's 50-50 at this point."

The search was halted abruptly Friday when a rainstorm swept through the area.

Cadaver dogs led police to the gravesite on Wednesday just off a dirt road near the base of Topaz Mountain, a popular rock-hounding spot in remote central Utah. The site is more than 130 miles from the location where Powell was last seen at her West Valley City home on Dec. 7, 2009.

Authorities have been searching the area since Monday. On Wednesday, they said they found human remains but later backtracked, clarifying that cadaver dogs had hit on the site but no remains had been found.

The area is about 30 miles south of a spot where Powell's husband, Josh Powell, told police he took his two young children camping on the night his wife vanished. He told police he and their young sons — then 4 and 2 — left his wife at home about 12:30 a.m. The 4-year-old confirmed the trip to police.

Josh Powell is the only person of interest in the case, although he has never been arrested or charged. He has denied having anything to do with her disappearance and said he believes his wife ran off with another man.

Susan Powell was 28 when she was reported missing after she failed to show up for her stockbroker job.

Investigators have dug down about two feet at the gravesite but don't intend to go further until the soil is sifted and closely inspected.

So far, no bones or tissue have been discovered. Instead, forensics specialists were finding dozens of small items that could be rocks or bone fragments, Merritt said.

Susan Powell's father, Chuck Cox, was escorted to the scene Friday for a look at the excavation effort.

He believes the area amid central Utah's sagebrush-dotted high desert and jagged mountains is a logical place to conduct the search because Josh Powell had camped at nearby Simpson Springs.

Cox, a former investigator for the Federal Aviation Administration, said he had long-believed the search for his daughter would be a lengthy process.

"There's no real false hope, it's just another step in the investigation," Cox said. "Every day is hard for the family. Life goes on, and so you go on the best you can. It's something you have to live with."

http://www.telegram.com/article/20110917/NEWS/110919627/1052...

David K - 4-24-2014 at 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
I followed the road southeast a few miles on Google maps and the first place I came to was Rancho Descanso. Looks like it had a sign for food and gas. Here is the link to the area maybe someone knows it or can map it in relation to the turnoff and don't know if anyone checked for Gary there.

https://www.google.com/maps/@30.05151,-115.300655,3a,75y,90t...

Rancho Descanso is near Hector's monument, and before El Progreso.... about 38 miles north of the turnoff to Faro San Jose.

Here's an edited road log I made from my El Marmol/El Volcan web page... Gives the distances from El Rosario to the above mentioned sites... food and drinks along this remote highway are not that sparse. A lot of truck drivers get hungry along that road.

Road Log (Miles)

0.0 El Rosario Pemex Station
14.6 Punta San Carlos Jcn.
28.5 Los Martires (food), San Juan de Dios Jcn.
31.5 El Descanso (food)
31.6 Monument to Hector
37.8 Old Road to right, Mision San Fernando access
39.4 El Progreso (food), signed San Fernando road
46.2 Santa Catarina Jcn. (original shipping point for El Marmol's onyx)
46.4 Guyaquil Jcn.
54.2 San Agustin abandoned trailer park
54.3 Abandoned gas station San Agustin
54.4 San Agustin highway maintenance complex
56.1 Abandoned Tres Enriques cafe
56.5 EL MARMOL JCN. (signed 15 kms.), just beyond is the Cafe Sonora (food, onyx curios)

[Edited on 4-24-2014 by David K]

EnsenadaDr - 4-24-2014 at 12:28 PM

David thank you your information for this area is invaluable. I believe Hook made a comment a while back that Gary may have had a potty stop at the Monument. But thanks to Doug's google street map I looked all around that area where Gary took the picture and it looked to me like there wasn't even a turn off for that monument on the same side of the road though there was an area to pull off on the other side of the road. I followed the road as I said after the monument and Rancho Descanso was the first real stop I saw. I wonder if the family asked anyone there or anyone put up posters there pertaining to Gary's disappearance.

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Quote:

David K - 4-24-2014 at 06:45 PM

The Descanso cafe is on the left (southbound) and the Hector monument is on the right, at a dangerous curve (why his truck crashed there). There is NO pull off at Hector's. We drove past it to where the gurdrail ends and could get totally off the highway and walked back to the monument to take close photos and appreciate the site.

EnsenadaDr - 4-24-2014 at 07:25 PM

I wonder if the posters were placed along that route, and if any people in any of those places before the turnoff had been talked to.

BornFisher - 4-24-2014 at 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
I wonder if the posters were placed along that route, and if any people in any of those places before the turnoff had been talked to.

Sometimes we need to be reminded of those people who spent a lot of time and effort placing posters and talking to people. Thank you LL and Bryon and others for your efforts, hard work, and dedication!

EnsenadaDr - 4-24-2014 at 09:19 PM

It's sort of eerie following the road where Gary last traveled, after he took the photo and cyber driving along the same route, wondering if he stopped anywhere along the way and where he went and why, and what happened.

SoCalPattonCrew - 4-27-2014 at 06:49 PM

DavidK: We thank you so much for posting your Road Log in Miles: do you think you could add the road mileage and noteworthy markers for travel to the hotel Catavina? Our family could use this detail for their own safety. Though they've traveled thru here in the past, it is always useful to have food/gas and markers of any kind along the highway as businesses can change. THANK You for this invaluable contribution! <

EnsenadaDr - 4-27-2014 at 06:54 PM

Glad to hear from the family!! When are you planning your trip and what is your itinerary?

Ateo - 4-27-2014 at 08:01 PM

They would've stated their plans if they wanted you to know. Just chill.

bajaguy - 4-27-2014 at 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ateo
They would've stated their plans if they wanted you to know. Just chill.

+ 1 ^

EnsenadaDr - 4-27-2014 at 08:26 PM

OK Dad and Uncle.

Quote:

Originally posted by Ateo
They would've stated their plans if they wanted you to know. Just chill.

David K - 4-28-2014 at 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SoCalPattonCrew
DavidK: We thank you so much for posting your Road Log in Miles: do you think you could add the road mileage and noteworthy markers for travel to the hotel Catavina? Our family could use this detail for their own safety. Though they've traveled thru here in the past, it is always useful to have food/gas and markers of any kind along the highway as businesses can change. THANK You for this invaluable contribution! <

OK, but they can't get lost as there is only one paved road south of El Rosario... It is 76 miles from the Pemex in El Rosario (a must stop gas station to top off the tank, as there is no more Pemex station going south for nearly 200 miles (Villa Jesus Maria or a little closer at Bahia de los Angeles). Gas is sold from cans at Cataviña for an addition price over Pemex prices, for the service of having it there.

Please allow for speedometer differences and use the following for general info. The kilometer markers are an excellent reference point to find side roads. Some of the figures provided by TW.

Road Log (Miles)

0.0 El Rosario Pemex Station (Km. 57)

14.6 Punta San Carlos Jcn. right (Km. 80/81)

28.5 Los Martires Cafe, San Juan de Dios Jcn. left (Km. 103)

31.5 El Descanso Cafe (Km. 115)

31.6 Monument to Hector (Km. 116)

37.8 Old Road to right, Mision San Fernando access

39.4 El Progreso Cafe, signed Mision San Fernando road right (Km. 121)

46.2 Santa Catarina Jcn. right (original shipping point for El Marmol's onyx) (Km. 132)

46.4 Guyaquil Jcn. left (Km. 133)

54.2 San Agustin abandoned trailer park (Km. 145)

54.3 Abandoned gas station San Agustin

54.4 San Agustin highway maintenance complex

56.1 abandoned Tres Enriques cafe

56.5 EL MARMOL JCN. left (signed 15 kms.) (Km. 148)

56.6 Sonora Cafe (Km. 149)

63.2 Agua Dulce spring access, left (Km. 160/161)

68.8 Faro San Jose/ Canoas access, right (Km. 168)

73.7 Cave Art hike parking left (Km. 176)

75.6 Cataviña (Km. 179)

76.3 Rancho Santa Ynez Jcn. left (Km. 181)
======================================================

[Edited on 4-30-2014 by David K]

SoCalPattonCrew - 4-29-2014 at 02:14 PM

Thank you, DavidK, for this extra detail as to the true nature of that drive down to the turnoff and Catavina, especially the detail about purchasing gas. Does anyone know what the cost is to stay at the Hotel Catavina, and whether there are other hotels heading to Catavina, that are reasonable and have a phone (?). I understand it is expensive to use the phone at Hotel Catavina.

While on this subject, would walkie-talkie type radios work very well while folks would be searching the desert near the car sighting?

Lastly, regarding the family coming down, it has been challenging for the guys to get time-off to travel down again. We were hoping for early May, but now it may be later. The planning for this next trip is getting complicated because our guys want desperately to get to the sighting area and look around themselves, try to find ranchers in the area that may have seen Gary, etc. But we also have the situation with the car to deal with as well. We have learned that the police commander at Catavina is on holiday for a few weeks, so this may affect our ability to claim the car, we are not sure. As soon as we have a timeframe confirmed, we will absolutely share with all our endearing nomads. Please stay tuned as we will update here when we know more. We cannot express how helpful it is to us to know there are folks like you nomads down there, or frequenters to the area, that are willing to support us in this difficult effort to continue a search...especially over all this long time. There are not enough ways to thank all of you ....

DENNIS - 4-29-2014 at 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SoCalPattonCrew

While on this subject, would walkie-talkie type radios work very well while folks would be searching the desert near the car sighting?

Sure. The area looks fairly flat, so line-of-sight communication would be at it's best.

bajaguy - 4-29-2014 at 02:27 PM

Figure on spending about $100 a night at the Hotel Mision in Catavina. They do have a pool and others have posted here that the restaurant is pretty good.

Other motels in the area are pretty basic and may not have electricity or hot water.

Gasoline in Catavina is out of cans by roadside vendors

Hand held radios will (mostly) work line-of-sight only

For phone service and another motel option you may want to consider staying at the Baja Cactus in El Rosario, although the distance/time to the search area may not work out for you. Antonio (the owner of the motel, PEMEX and he also operates the ambulance service) may be able to help you out. His office is above the gas station.

I would strongly suggest getting a SPOT tracker if you will be off highway in that area

BajaNomad - 4-29-2014 at 04:10 PM

http://www.hotelmisionsantamaria.com.mx/en/Catavina%20en.htm...

liknbaja127 - 4-29-2014 at 07:45 PM

The NORRA 1000 will be going that way on Sunday May 11th, there will be more traffic than normal on that day. just FYI. Be safe and good luck.

David K - 4-29-2014 at 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SoCalPattonCrew
Thank you, DavidK, for this extra detail as to the true nature of that drive down to the turnoff and Catavina, especially the detail about purchasing gas. Does anyone know what the cost is to stay at the Hotel Catavina, and whether there are other hotels heading to Catavina, that are reasonable and have a phone (?). I understand it is expensive to use the phone at Hotel Catavina.

While on this subject, would walkie-talkie type radios work very well while folks would be searching the desert near the car sighting?

Lastly, regarding the family coming down, it has been challenging for the guys to get time-off to travel down again. We were hoping for early May, but now it may be later. The planning for this next trip is getting complicated because our guys want desperately to get to the sighting area and look around themselves, try to find ranchers in the area that may have seen Gary, etc. But we also have the situation with the car to deal with as well. We have learned that the police commander at Catavina is on holiday for a few weeks, so this may affect our ability to claim the car, we are not sure. As soon as we have a timeframe confirmed, we will absolutely share with all our endearing nomads. Please stay tuned as we will update here when we know more. We cannot express how helpful it is to us to know there are folks like you nomads down there, or frequenters to the area, that are willing to support us in this difficult effort to continue a search...especially over all this long time. There are not enough ways to thank all of you ....

A great friend to all Baja travelers is Antonio Muñoz, the owner of the Baja Cactus Motel, the El Rosario Pemex gas station and he is a Baja Nomad with the handle 'BajaCactus'.

His motel is cheap yet luxurious by highway motel standards. Each room has a telephone and can connect to the U.S. The distance from El Rosario to Cataviña is 76 miles (1.5 hrs.). There are other motels in El Rosario and a Bed & Breakfast.

In Cataviña there is the Hotel Mision Cataviña, The Motel Linda, and the bunk rooms at Rancho Santa Ynez, 1 mile south.

EnsenadaDr - 4-30-2014 at 06:09 AM

Here is a missing person's case near Catavina, it appeared the sister hired cowboys at 300 pesos a day to look for her brother. Might be an idea.

Found intact belongings Italian tourist died
Andres Perales, Cesar Cordova / THE VALLEY

The backpack that brought Antonio Giardella along with their skeletal remains.
El Vigia
2008-12-09 00:00:00
San Quentin B.C. - Watered by several points of the stream "Horses in the delegation of Cataviña, they found the skeletal remains of the Italian tourist Antonio Giardella, after five months remain missing, their belongings were untouched next to a rock.

Details of the Attorney General of the State (PGJE) in San Quintin, concerns that the foreign possibly died from dehydration due to high temperatures happened the seventh day of July, when they were allegedly lost, ranging to 45 degrees centigrade.

The remains were found last Monday at about 22 kilometers from Cataviña, in a rocky area at the East of the cave paintings, 550 kilometers south of the city of Ensenada.

To locate the corpse Simona Giardella, sister of the deceased, hired eight cowboys in the area, who are paid 300 pesos a day.

After three days of search crawlers found skeletal remains, though in doing so noted that missing limbs and skull, which were located at various points downstream

They also found a backpack green white stripe, and inside it were a case for glasses, a change of clothes, sunscreen and a camera with his sleeve, used to capture landscapes during the expedition.

Sources from the PGJE and elements of Expert Services who came to the place of discovery, possibly indicated that the limbs were torn by scavengers of the place, like coyotes and birds.

The skull of the Italian was in the bed of the stream and no signs of violence, even still had scalp, which will serve to practice DNA tests to confirm their identification.

Later the remains moved to the facilities of the Forensic Medical Service (Semefo), where they were turned over to the authorities.

The PGJE 1821/308/306 began the preliminary investigation for manslaughter, to rule out the possibility that she has been murdered.

Simona Giardella kept the memory of the camera, which he submitted to the authorities to know what his brother took pictures, and if they match the place where he was found.

Research lines

Lidia Aguilar Gallegos, deputy justice Ensenada area, reported that the remains were found 15 kilometers of road Transpeninsular, heading to the Gulf of California.

He said that there are two lines of investigation: the first is that not resist high temperatures and the second that could have been a victim of a venomous animal bite, which caused him to death.

"These are the two scenarios we have, and it may be that in both cases (now deceased) was disoriented and was attacked and dragged by the fauna of the place ... has no clothes torn, only themselves to the passage of time, and has no limbs, which suggests that an animal devoured it, "he concluded.

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=35759

[Edited on 4-30-2014 by EnsenadaDr]

OUTSTANDING

bajaguy - 4-30-2014 at 07:20 AM

Idea ^^^

Hire people that know and live in the area to do a search.

Cowboys can cover a lot of ground on a horse and offer several advantages over a foot search.

Get a good map of the area, plot search zones from the location where the 4Runner was found and coordinate the daily activity of the searchers.

At 300 pesos per day you could hire 5 cowboys for a week at a cost of about $575 USD a week.......

Thanks for the article

DENNIS - 4-30-2014 at 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy

At 300 pesos per day you could hire 5 cowboys for a week at a cost of about $575 USD a week.......

Those were 2008 prices, according to the date on the article.

EnsenadaDr - 4-30-2014 at 08:35 AM

You are right Dennis, with the decline of tourism in Baja in general, the cost might be 200 pesos a day.

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy

At 300 pesos per day you could hire 5 cowboys for a week at a cost of about $575 USD a week.......

Those were 2008 prices, according to the date on the article.

EnsenadaDr - 4-30-2014 at 08:49 AM

What I am saying is that they might be willing to work for less due to the declining economy which can be indirectly be related to tourism; also people in the area that are visiting might hire guides and horses for exploring so yes it can be directly related to tourism.

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Cowboys don't rely on tourists for their income, but the price of beef may be of concern.

[Edited on 4-30-2014 by EnsenadaDr]

absinvestor - 4-30-2014 at 08:50 AM

My first reaction was the same ie great idea. However, there are still many unanswered questions. (I am still not convinced that Gary drove the car to that location.) If in fact the worst has happened I think it makes sense to have an experienced investigator ie LL to first look at the area where the car was found (along with the rake and shovel to verify they are gary's etc) before we get the area trampled by a bunch of horses. After LL is done with his investigation and the family has done whatever they want to do I think the cowboy idea is a great one. Good going Ensenada Dr!

willardguy - 4-30-2014 at 08:54 AM

a fat bonus wouldn't hurt either.

EnsenadaDr - 4-30-2014 at 09:12 AM

Ron Hoff who lives in San Quintin described on his forum the area and his experience in that area which seems to be considerable and how many small roads and dead ends there are, and how he would have gotten lost if it wasn't for his GPS. I first thought that a search party on foot might be a good idea but considering the terrain and the propensity of the people in that area getting lost even those that are familiar with the area, it might be foolhardy and dangerous even with 4 wheel drive vehicles.

BajaBlanca - 4-30-2014 at 01:40 PM

That was an interesting article, thanks doc.

David K - 4-30-2014 at 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
What I am saying is that they might be willing to work for less due to the declining economy which can be indirectly be related to tourism; also people in the area that are visiting might hire guides and horses for exploring so yes it can be directly related to tourism.

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Cowboys don't rely on tourists for their income, but the price of beef may be of concern.

[Edited on 4-30-2014 by EnsenadaDr]

You seriously need to take a drive... You live in Ensenada, so it is just down the highway 200 miles. If you saw the area, lack of business, services, people... except for a few along the highway... you could better relate to or understand what you are suggesting.

It is a desert, and ranchos are few and far between.

I still have not had anyone show me the location of the rancho near where Gary's 4Runner was found... as reported?

The 4Runner is where a FOOT/ HORSEBACK/ATV search should begin. IF he walked out on any road, then he would have been found. He only had to walk back the way he drove in to be on a well used (for the area) dirt road about 2 miles.

Instead, he went cross-country where nobody could find him without also going cross country.

Naturally, this presumes he got the 4Runner stuck and not if it was taken from him, somewhere else.

The 4Runner is all we have to go from. Let's confirm where the 4Runner was found and then search out from there. I hope there can be closure soon for this family.

norte - 4-30-2014 at 02:24 PM

The contest on who can post the most has got to stop. Let the family do their thing and report back. They will ask if they need help. Otherwise it is fools game you are playing.

EnsenadaDr - 4-30-2014 at 02:28 PM

I have driven from Nogales to Magdalena to San Luis Rio Colorado all through the Sonoran Desert. I spent plenty of time driving La Rumorosa to Centinela to Salada to Mexicali to San Felipe to San Carlos. My husband was from Mexicali and we drove out of cities into the desert all the time. I think the horseback riders should start from where the truck was found.

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Cowboys don't rely on tourists for their income, but the price of beef may be of concern.

[Edited on 4-30-2014 by EnsenadaDr]

JZ - 4-30-2014 at 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
I have driven from Nogales to Magdalena to San Luis Rio Colorado all through the Sonoran Desert. I spent plenty of time driving La Rumorosa to Centinela to Salada to Mexicali to San Felipe to San Carlos. My husband was from Mexicali and we drove out of cities into the desert all the time. I think the horseback riders should start from where the truck was found.

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr

LOL, 90% of that is a 4 lane divided highway. Nothing like Mex 1 or the dirt side roads. I'm convinced you type on here just to hear yourself talk. You write 3 paragraphs when 2 sentences will do.

motoged - 4-30-2014 at 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by norte
The contest on who can post the most has got to stop. Let the family do their thing and report back. They will ask if they need help. Otherwise it is fools game you are playing.

I agree strongly with this comment. While reluctant to even post this comment myself, I suggest to EnsenadaDoc that you try to hold back on your ongoing suggestions ....the family needs to follow their abilities and resources......and they have been well-established in this thread by now. This is now their business and far less ours....

No disrespect meant.....just let it be for now....PLEASE.....for their sake as well as ours :light:

EnsenadaDr - 4-30-2014 at 03:48 PM

well two people today thought my idea was good about the horseback riders, and guess what guys. There is freedom of speech the last time I looked. And I welcome any comments from the family U2U and I will stop immediately if they don't like what I say. So far, I don't feel anything I have said has been out of line. You don't have to read my comments, just sayin'.

woody with a view - 4-30-2014 at 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
considering the terrain and the propensity of the people in that area getting lost even those that are familiar with the area, it might be foolhardy and dangerous even with 4 wheel drive vehicles.

funny, that is the attraction to a few people I know..... :light:

EnsenadaDr - 4-30-2014 at 04:52 PM

hahaha well you know woody you have a point there...so called thrill seekers!! And people die from thrill seeking as well. But as Neil Young said, it's better to burn out than to fade away!!

chuckie - 4-30-2014 at 05:06 PM

Doc, just leave it alone....You are clearly obsessed with this ...Find something else ....Home shopping network? Just quit.....

MMc - 4-30-2014 at 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Cowboys don't rely on tourists for their income, but the price of beef may be of concern.

[Edited on 4-30-2014 by EnsenadaDr]

DK is right start with 4x4s, using Horses and locals is also a good idea, grinding then on price, not so much.
This thread is becoming it's own reality, it has very little with how Gary will be found and more about playing "find the missing guy". Let the family do it's thing, they care more about what happened more then anybody else.

bajadogs - 4-30-2014 at 10:25 PM

I totally agree with DavidK. The search must begin from where the Toyota SUV was found. To the Patton family - I'll save a place in my heart for Gary's wellbeing, knowing we will figure this out.

SoCalPattonCrew - 5-2-2014 at 01:02 PM

Dear Nomads: Do any of you know if there is a mechanic in Catavina? Or a tire shop? We are trying to ensure that if the car needs repair whether there are any folks in town that could help us with the car.

Regarding some comments here, the idea of enlisting the cowboys is a solid one that we have been investigating. LL is assisting us with this effort.

We might ask if there could be some refrain in feeling the need to share gruesome and graphic details relating to lost souls and how they are found, because it does not offer any value to us; we are already dealing with our worst fears.

Thank you for all the well-wishes on our behalf.

Sidamone - 5-2-2014 at 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SoCalPattonCrew
Dear Nomads: Do any of you know if there is a mechanic in Catavina? Or a tire shop? We are trying to ensure that if the car needs repair whether there are any folks in town that could help us with the car.

Regarding some comments here, the idea of enlisting the cowboys is a solid one that we have been investigating. LL is assisting us with this effort.

We might ask if there could be some refrain in feeling the need to share gruesome and graphic details relating to lost souls and how they are found, because it does not offer any value to us; we are already dealing with our worst fears.

Thank you for all the well-wishes on our behalf.

If you could somehow manage to acquire a 1972 Ford for your trip, you could rest assured of mechanical help anyplace, and I do mean anyplace, in Baja. Mexicans are the world's best mechanics, or were, until computerized systems threw them a monkey wrench. Catavina had an excellent shop last time I had to have someone get underneath my van with a hammer.

DENNIS - 5-2-2014 at 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SoCalPattonCrew
Dear Nomads: Do any of you know if there is a mechanic in Catavina? Or a tire shop?

I wouldn't be worrying too much about the mechanics of the vehicle since it ran well enough to bury itself.

Now...tires? There are more tire shops...llanteras.....in Baja than grocery stores.

David K - 5-2-2014 at 04:45 PM

Yes, there is (or was)... usually any community of more than a dozen in Baja has a mechanic!

Neal Johns can break a Toyota like nobody I know! From his photo web page: http://vivabaja.com/neal2/page6.html

If anyone can... a Mexi-can! Hooray for Catavina's mechanic, Pancho!
Pancho had a bigger tool than any of the gringos!

Here is Marian's story that include's Pancho: http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=56999

[Edited on 5-2-2014 by David K]

BajaRun - 5-3-2014 at 07:08 AM

I drove past Catavina yesterday. I saw the 4 runner sitting at the police station. It appeared to have a flat left (driver side) front tire.

[Edited on 5-3-2014 by BajaRun]

Skipjack Joe - 5-3-2014 at 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr

hahaha well you know woody you have a point there...so called thrill seekers!! And people die from thrill seeking as well. But as Neil Young said, it's better to burn out than to fade away!!

Yes, and Pugachov said "I would rather live 30 years like an eagle than 100 years like a crow"

willardguy - 5-3-2014 at 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaRun
I drove past Catavina yesterday. I saw the 4 runner sitting at the police station. It appeared to have a flat left (driver side) front tire.

[Edited on 5-3-2014 by BajaRun]

seems I recall a picture of the car with the spare mounted, the family might want to bring an extra along.

vgabndo - 5-3-2014 at 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe

Quote:

Yes, and Pugachov said "I would rather live 30 years like an eagle than 100 years like a crow"

I think Pugachov got it wrong. Give me 100 years with the intelligence of a human child, with the ability to play tricks on my friends and build and use tools. Flying is about the only thing a dumb eagle has in common with a crow. (Oh, they both eat dead animals, but then so do humans.) :lol:

[Edited on 5-3-2014 by vgabndo]

absinvestor - 5-3-2014 at 02:35 PM

I'm guessing the battery will be dead. Goodness only knows how long it has been since the truck was started and there is always a trickle drain on an unused battery.

Hook - 5-3-2014 at 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lizard lips

When they do go in May and the rancher is not there then how will know exactly where the vehicle was found abandoned and do their own search?

This trip in May is sounding more like a vehicle recovery operation.

What else can it be without the rancher accompanying them to the site where the vehicle was found? You cant just start combing the peninsula from SQ to Catavina.

EnsenadaDr - 5-3-2014 at 04:14 PM

It looks like from the last comment of the family that Lizard Lips will be investigating some vaqueros from the area who hopefully can contact the rancher and figure out exactly where to search.

bajadogs - 5-3-2014 at 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
It looks like from the last comment of the family that Lizard Lips will be investigating some vaqueros from the area who hopefully can contact the rancher and figure out exactly where to search.

Please back off this thread. You have nothing to contribute.

EnsenadaDr - 5-3-2014 at 07:46 PM

Really?? I think I do. The family said my contribution about the horseback searchers was helpful. So I take my direction from the family and no one else Bajadogs. Guess what. I will say what I want when I want unless I am directed from the moderator or the family to stop. They already stated they didn't want gruesome details so I have backed off on that. Have a wonderful Cinco de Mayo.

SoCalPattonCrew - 5-4-2014 at 11:13 PM

Dearest Nomads, I neglected to realize the downtime am/pm, and had a panic attack thinking I could've lost all your input when I could not login. Hope that makes you laugh a little. For me, it was not funny.. absolute panic attack. All this time it never occurred to me to save the invaluable information you have so freely offered us here.

As a result, I would besiege anyone here who knows how to copy all of "MiISSING G.RY PATTON" & "STILL MISSING..." postings to any media, somehow/somewhere, please advise as to how, or please do so for us. God only knows how long we may need this invaluable information for, and going forward, and this is my only record of our activities thru this nightmare that truly tracks in writing all of what has transpired. My personal records have relied on this info and converse here, so please respond someone.

Thank you All.. and God bless you from me, K

DENNIS - 5-5-2014 at 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SoCalPattonCrew

As a result, I would besiege anyone here who knows how to copy all of "MiISSING G.RY PATTON" & "STILL MISSING..." postings to any media, somehow/somewhere, please advise as to how, or please do so for us.

I would suggest reviewing the contents, cutting and pasting the pertinent [to you] entries to a safe place on your computer. You shouldn't end up with too much information.....only a fraction of what has been put up here. :light:

David K - 5-5-2014 at 07:51 AM

Doug won't let Nomad die... not yet anyway. It was offline for part of a day while he was working on new features for it, that's all.

As for how to save the few good replies in this thread: Open a Word or Works file or even an email to yourself, and copy and paste any replies you want to save for yourself. You can then print them. Or, just go through the thread and print any replies you want to without first saving them to a file...

willyAirstream - 5-5-2014 at 07:55 AM

To print a page, use the link on upper left of any page `` printable version``

sdraul - 5-5-2014 at 08:04 AM

Try this: click on "printable version" as stated in the post above. Then right click on the text and pick "Print"...that should bring up a printer section. from there pick "save as pdf"....that will save a file to your computer...

DENNIS - 5-5-2014 at 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by willyAirstream
To print a page, use the link on upper left of any page `` printable version``

90 times??

sdraul - 5-5-2014 at 11:33 AM

Not sure if you do it 90 times...I tried it on a one page post....copy and paste to a word document may work better...

[Edited on 5-5-2014 by sdraul]

DENNIS - 5-5-2014 at 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sdraul
Not sure if you do it 90 times...I tried it on a one page post....copy and paste to a word document may work better...

I was just thinken if they wanted a copy of the thread, there are 90 pages to deal with.
If they limit the copying to pages with good info, the task would be much shorter.

EnsenadaDr - 5-5-2014 at 08:22 PM

Looks like for example, the onion ring thread has approximately 2 pages of thread to 1 page of printable version. When you click on Gary's thread however, the printable version does not appear at all. It would probably run about 45 pages if it follows the amount of pages per print from the thread to printable of the Onion ring thread. But I think the Gary thread is too long, the printable version doesn't even appear even after waiting a long time.

Marla Daily - 5-6-2014 at 05:49 AM

We will be passing through Cataviña tomorrow. Is there anything we can do for you Patton family?

BajaNomad - 5-6-2014 at 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by sdraul
Not sure if you do it 90 times...I tried it on a one page post....copy and paste to a word document may work better...

I was just thinken if they wanted a copy of the thread, there are 90 pages to deal with.
If they limit the copying to pages with good info, the task would be much shorter.

If you change your "Posts per page" setting in the user control panel from 20 to 200, then it's only 9 pages - or to 400, and it's only 5. Just depends on what your internet device's RAM can handle.

Then - as noted - print to PDF (for those who can "print to file"). I suggest in "landscape" orientation.

If you use the "Printable Version" option with such a long thread, it tends to timeout (or run out of RAM?) before being visible.

Removing Posts

motoged - 5-6-2014 at 10:57 AM

So....who removed my post suggesting Ensenadadoc print out the thread for the family?

rts551 - 5-6-2014 at 11:15 AM

and mine that said she had the time?

EnsenadaDr - 5-6-2014 at 11:44 AM

If the family would like, I will print the thread for them. I believe that Doug has given some pretty easy instructions on how to do it. However, I don't need others to suggest how much time I have or what I need to do or not do. I am willing to help the family as much as I can and I think they know that. This thread is about Gary and his family not about EnsenadaDr, though I appreciate the thoughts guys.

DENNIS - 5-6-2014 at 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
If the family would like, I will print the thread for them.

Nice offer, Janene, but why don't you let them do it. They have the knowledge and tools. It will give them an opportunity to review the info separating the wheat from the BS.

Floatflyer - 5-6-2014 at 12:25 PM

I had a post evaporate, too! Guess somebody is reluctant to hear differing opinions.

DENNIS - 5-6-2014 at 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by motoged
So....who removed my post suggesting Ensenadadoc print out the thread for the family?

I did. Me'n Joe-Jerky-Joe are moderators of the day. Maybe tomorrow too. :lol:

JoeJustJoe - 5-6-2014 at 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
If the family would like, I will print the thread for them.

Nice offer, Janene, but why don't you let them do it. They have the knowledge and tools. It will give them an opportunity to review the info separating the wheat from the BS.

So Dennis does this mean there is a way to condense 91 pages of posts, into just maybe 2 or 3 pages of worthwhile information?( wheat)

DENNIS - 5-6-2014 at 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JoeJustJoe

So Dennis does this mean there is a way to condense 91 pages of posts, into just maybe 2 or 3 pages of worthwhile information?( wheat)

Sure thing, my moderator bro. You can in fact write it on the head of a pin. [you know all about those pinheads, doncha, Joe] :lol:

motoged - 5-6-2014 at 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by motoged
So....who removed my post suggesting Ensenadadoc print out the thread for the family?

I did. Me'n Joe-Jerky-Joe are moderators of the day. Maybe tomorrow too. :lol:

Dennis,
Thanks for the clarification of your limp-dick sense of importance :lol:

wessongroup - 5-6-2014 at 04:24 PM

This is better than OT ... :lol:

Justbozo - 5-6-2014 at 04:27 PM

Due to the lack of sensitivity to the family by a group that post with regularity to this thread I am unsubscribing.
I will check back, but I won't be answering junk mail.

SoCalPattonCrew - 5-6-2014 at 10:00 PM

Thank you Maria for your kind offer. We're wishing you could something specific for us. Perhaps you might just ask some questions of the workers at both the hotel and restaurant, if you can take a copy of Gary photo from the Nomad post, page 19, and maybe the flyer, ask the workers if they remember ever seeing him. I know that Nomads here drove everywhere, talking and asking the same, but who knows, may not have spoken to someone who did see him. That's always a thought.

And to those with suggestions on copying valuable information you've all offered, THANK YOU! I'm feeling more secure now, and copy-paste works best.

You are all the very best!

sdraul - 5-7-2014 at 10:32 AM

"And to those with suggestions on copying valuable information you've all offered, THANK YOU! I'm feeling more secure now, and copy-paste works best. "

So you are OK...I was thinking about converting to a pdf file at home (fast internet connection) and send to you...Let me know...

lizard lips - 5-7-2014 at 01:00 PM

I have not posted for awhile because I have not had much to report and I was working in Southern Mexico for the last few weeks.

Here is the latest: I finally met face to face with the Pattons who are very nice people and they even picked up the tab for lunch! Awhile back we had discussed the possibility of hiring some of the ranchers and their employees in the area where the vehicle was found in that they know the area and also because of the heat and most of us being over 50 it would be the best thing to do right now.

I met with the ranchers daughter this morning and gave her some cash to get things moving. I will report to you as well as the Pattons as to their progress. Some of you may think why would you give cash to someone you don't know but as I told the Pattons I would trust this family with anything especially as important as this. I believe its the best way to go for now.

Now this will blow you away: As I was talking to the daughter I mentioned that the Pattons have still not gone to Catavina to take possession of Garys 4 Runner. I explained that they want to make sure that the vehicle runs and all the paperwork is in order. She told me that her father started the 4 Runner up when he initially found it. When I interviewed the rancher I assumed we had discussed this but apparently it got lost in translation or I didn't ask the questions. I thought I had.

Now, with this "new" information you can attempt to figure this out! How long does it take for a battery to discharge. I would assume there are many factors such as how old the battery was and what brand.

If something new comes up I will let you all know.

Keep the faith!

BajaBlanca - 5-7-2014 at 01:13 PM

Great that the family will help out. I agree that this is the best way to go.

absinvestor - 5-7-2014 at 01:53 PM

LL- the battery question is intriguing. Before I set up a trickle charge on my motorhome the engine battery would go dead in less than 90 days. This happened twice with two brand new fully charged batteries. My mom doesn't drive and her car is stored in a heated garage. We have replaced the battery 3 times in the last 5 years. We try to get a relative to use the car every month to charge the battery but it doesn't always happen. Her car with a new die-hard battery will start after 3 or 4 months but not after 6 months. Unless Gary's truck has a fairly new battery it is highly doubtful that it would have started the engine after 4 or 5 months. If the truck sat at the found location since Sept 2013 and was only started for a short time by the rancher in March the battery should be totally dead when the Pattons pick it up in May.

mtgoat666 - 5-7-2014 at 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lizard lips
How long does it take for a battery to discharge.

there is no one answer. depends on age of battery, air temp, and whether the automatic daytime headlights were left in on or off position.

Pages: 1 .. 16 17 18 19 20 .. 24