BajaNomad - Cessna stolen from Asuncion...it's a sad day.

Cessna stolen from Asuncion...it's a sad day.

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toneart - 12-23-2009 at 11:24 AM

I'm afraid the anti-science right Wingnut has attacked this thread and knocked it out. "Who me? I never start it. I'm innocent." :saint:

We have tried to give this blinded biased Wingnut chance after chance. We want to like him, but he continually intrudes and disrupts with his nonsense.

I am sorry for Ascuncion and the people who lost their plane. The flying discussion was interesting too, but I am not going to open this string again because it has been ruined. :barf:

Hook - 12-23-2009 at 11:25 AM

Even with the quick theft of the hospital plane, there had to be persons on the ground in Asuncion who knew of its pending arrival, probably days in advance. There must have been logistics needed for whatever services that plane was providing; supplies or medical services.

Then, this plane is there for three days before the theft.

I would lean heavily on the local operative theory, especially due to the second scenario. They had to get the logistics over there and that took 3 days.

Did the pilot file a flight plan specifying Asuncion as his final destination?

shari - 12-23-2009 at 11:33 AM

yes he did...in ensenada which is why it's possible there is someone on the inside there....most pilots dont put asuncion as their destination which may be why tourist planes havent been stolen before.

baron - 12-23-2009 at 11:33 AM

So somebody there was "watching" the owner pilot all day saturday and waiting for him to make the final check on his plane before the sunday takeoff. The guy finds everything OK and leaves to go back to the hotel. Then the thieves safely go to work. That's the scary part that Shari is talking about.

shari - 12-23-2009 at 11:37 AM

he didnt make a final check...they just glanced over while they were hiking in another area late saturday afternoon and saw it was there. theives came under the cover of darkness and took off well before first light.

capt. mike - 12-23-2009 at 11:41 AM

"Did the pilot file a flight plan specifying Asuncion as his final destination?"

only would be the case if he departed a towered controlled airport in mexico with Asuncion as his intended destination.
if he came in from an uncontrolled strip like Chivato or BOLA there would have been no FP needed or req'd for that matter.
the rules:
tower to tower FP req'd
tower to non tower FP req'd
non tower to tower or non tower FP not req'd.

anytime in positve mex controlled airspace - check in, identify who/what you are, where you came from, where you're going.
then they see if you are in the system or supposed to be.
lots of guys will fly under class C floors to avoid talking. Some turn off their discrete transponders or disable mode C if transitioning controlled airspace.

most of the airspace in baja is uncontrolled and there are only a few towers.

DENNIS - 12-23-2009 at 11:44 AM

Hate to see it happen but, it just goes on the list of things not to do in Baja.
Don't drive at night.
Don't camp in isolated places.
Don't park your plane in unguarded places.

A few more new additions to the list and this place will be nothing but a memory. Everything is deteriorating in spite of efforts to improve and the cancer is spreading.

shari - 12-23-2009 at 11:48 AM

a pilot just informed me there have also been plane thefts in la paz...where it is guarded by the military....so sheesh....guarded or not...plane jacking is pretty popular these days no matter where ya park.

he checked in in Ensenada and filed his flight plan there naming Asuncion as a destination.

DianaT - 12-23-2009 at 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Hate to see it happen but, it just goes on the list of things not to do in Baja.
Don't drive at night.
Don't camp in isolated places.
Don't park your plane in unguarded places.

A few more new additions to the list and this place will be nothing but a memory. Everything is deteriorating in spite of efforts to improve and the cancer is spreading.

It is just so really sad. I guess the blinders regarding our area need to be thrown away. :no:

tripledigitken - 12-23-2009 at 11:53 AM

No part of Baja seems to be untouched by this cancer. The question I'm asking myself recently is how much worse does it have to get before i give Baja a timeout.

elgatoloco - 12-23-2009 at 12:21 PM

I am wondering if it is 'standard operating procedure' for the cops to take photos of an airplane as mentioned in the account given by the pilot/owner? Are the photos for their scrapbook?

Just curious.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v462/n7273/full/462545a...

http://mediamatters.org/research/200912030030

shari - 12-23-2009 at 12:34 PM

the cop was the kid/cop Leri who Dianne posted a photo of on his skateboard at the cop shop one day. He's a sweet boy and loves planes and so he took a photo of it on his cell phone and was showing us all...not hiding the fact at all...i know some of this seems suspicious unless you know the people involved...this kid is not the snitch.

DENNIS - 12-23-2009 at 12:36 PM

Why would anybody be required to snitch? All the bad guys have to do is fly around looking for parked planes.

elgatoloco - 12-23-2009 at 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
the cop was the kid/cop Leri who Dianne posted a photo of on his skateboard at the cop shop one day. He's a sweet boy and loves planes and so he took a photo of it on his cell phone and was showing us all...not hiding the fact at all...i know some of this seems suspicious unless you know the people involved...this kid is not the snitch.

Cool! Thanks for the clarification!!

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and Juan!

Hope to see you in '010!!

M&B

Skeet/Loreto - 12-23-2009 at 01:08 PM

Shari: I am still doubtful about there being a local Snitch.

For instance: A very quiet investigation was done back some Months ago;

It was determined that there were qyiet a few less planes going into Mainland Mexico than in the past year.

It was determined that there was still airplanes going into Baja.

T=Most of these stolen planes end up in or near Cualican.

People are easily placed to receive information as planes clear into Baja, notify the Thieves, they have to transport themselves to the Baja Location.
Just for info Goggle up STolen Aircraft Baja and Mexico

Why do you think a new regulation was put into effect concering the Electronic Reporting of People coming in to Mexico Easy to find the needed information of Destination.

Keep you the Good Work Shari;.

shari - 12-23-2009 at 03:36 PM

ya skeet...my gut feeling is that they knew from the Ensenada end...not a local snitch...but ya never know

Skeet/Loreto - 12-23-2009 at 04:38 PM

Attention Capt; Mike!!!
Mike would you please get in touch with the BBP/ Serindad Pilots and get them to start contacting their Insuranc Companies regarding the making and designing of a device to stop some of these Thefts.!
I have contacted AOPA
Plane and Pilot
NTSB
Society of Air Safety Investigators
Insurance Companies
Woking on an Anti Theft Device Company.

If enough is got out there some of these smart young kids will invent a sure fire devcice to stop some of it.

Get those guys in BBP to get in touch with anyone they can put some pressure on!!

We can do it.

potential solution

steekers - 12-23-2009 at 06:30 PM

As one who flys to Baja, I offer the following:

The owners of the airport I visit will need to install a motion-detector that would alert me (or someone else if in early am) to any activity around the plane. When detected, a series of alarms and cameras will be activated AND some very fierce dogs will be let out of their kennels. At this same time, my very well hidden on-board tracking device will be activated and cannot be shut off. Failing all the above, an on-board fuel deprivation system device will kick in and starve the engine fuel...down goes the plane!!!

Sound plausible?

woody with a view - 12-23-2009 at 06:42 PM

Quote:

since i don't have a plane i guess i still have one strike left!

DENNIS - 12-23-2009 at 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by steekers
As one who flys to Baja, I offer the following:

The owners of the airport I visit will need to install a motion-detector that would alert me (or someone else if in early am) to any activity around the plane. When detected, a series of alarms and cameras will be activated AND some very fierce dogs will be let out of their kennels. At this same time, my very well hidden on-board tracking device will be activated and cannot be shut off. Failing all the above, an on-board fuel deprivation system device will kick in and starve the engine fuel...down goes the plane!!!

Sound plausible?

If that doesn't work, may I suggest this:

http://www.cmhg-phmc.gc.ca/cmh/book_images/high/v3_c6_s04_ss...

woody with a view - 12-23-2009 at 06:51 PM

that must be a union gig. 6-7 guys standing around watching 1 guy do all the work!

DENNIS - 12-23-2009 at 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by woody in ob
that must be a union gig. 6-7 guys standing around watching 1 guy do all the work!

Cal-Trans University.

desertcpl - 12-23-2009 at 08:27 PM

my 2 cents

first I am not a pilot,,but

1. you can replace a plane
2. you can not replace a person
3. you should not do any thing to a plane that is not FAA approved,,( I would think that if you did and some thing happened your insurance would be invalid.)
4. I dont think you should put you and your family in a position that they should wait until you entered the plane and disarmed it. (now that is really looking for problems.)
and or other things that would track them or take them out while in the air

UnoMas - 12-23-2009 at 09:54 PM

There must have been an inside plant that cased the scene prior and alerting the thieves (had two days) what was necessary to pull this off. A flight plan would not tell them they needed a torch and extra fuel. Pictures on a cell phone can be sent any where, and information that no security or devises were in place to alert anyone by being close to the target. Knowing where the owner was at a strong possibility. If it were me looking for a Rat I would be looking in my own back yard. Just a thought.......

toneart - 12-23-2009 at 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by UnoMas
There must have been an inside plant that cased the scene prior and alerting the thieves (had two days) what was necessary to pull this off. A flight plan would not tell them they needed a torch and extra fuel. Pictures on a cell phone can be sent any where, and information that no security or devises were in place to alert anyone by being close to the target. Knowing where the owner was at a strong possibility. If it were me looking for a Rat I would be looking in my own back yard. Just a thought.......

It doesn't necessarily mean that the plant (if this theory is valid) was a member or working for a Cartel. He could just be a local that was offered money or threatened.

woody with a view - 12-24-2009 at 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by toneart

Quote:

It doesn't necessarily mean that the plant (if this theory is valid) was a member or working for a Cartel. He could just be a local that was offered money or threatened.

i.e RAT!

David K - 12-24-2009 at 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
You can't blame Skeet for being skeptical of (some) scientists and their reports... Look at the lies and altered/ destroyed data by those U.N. and other scientists about 'global warming', all to keep funds coming their way, from the hysteria over an obvious (to most) false claim. Governments who want more control and money from its citizens are using that lie, still... Other world leaders are a bit more honest and have rejected the trend of some.

Guess it is time for another thread to dive into this stupid over and over argument between those who do believe in science and those who believe in right-wing conspiracy theories.

This is about a stolen airplane, about the damage to a small town that has been out of the mainstream of these problems, it is about what can or cannot happen to help this situation, but no---------------away we go.

Now DK, tell us all about how you didn't start it, how it is your job to teach us all about everything and correct everyone else if they are wrong, or at least wrong in your opinion, how all nomads should love each other, how at least you love everyone and want to play nice and don't poke people with a stick every chance you get :barf:

how you have been in Baja and watched the ocean so you know the "TRUTH"--- go for it.

Or, why doesn't everyone get back to what this thread is about and try your hand in the off-topic sewer where it belongs.

The discussion about flying was interesting, even with the disagreement.

Yes it was... then K-Rico got onto Skeet about scientific research questions... I guess you missed that, and only need to add your dos centavos to promote the LEFT side. The big difference between our two sides Diane (and Toneart, etc.) is that the Right side isn't using selected scientists to TAKE AWAY people's freedoms and RAISE taxes.

Man cannot control Nature, he can only hurt himself trying. :cool:

MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE! :spingrin:

Skeet/Loreto - 12-24-2009 at 08:43 AM

To All Posters:

I think that the Theft of small Aircraft poses another real Danger to the Border Areas.

Think about a small airicraft being stolen by one of the Terriost Groups, flown to San Diego with a Dirty Bomb on board.
It could easily be done. There has been some Investigation into the use of Crop Dusters for just such thing.

If anyone has any connections that may help develop and interest in getting anti Theft devices made please talk to them about doing Such!!

woody with a view - 12-24-2009 at 08:46 AM

Skeet

why San Diego? what about Texas???? :lol:

Skeet/Loreto - 12-24-2009 at 08:50 AM

It seems to me that a small Chip with a code number could be installed in the Ignition System of any Aircraft with a small device kept by the pilot who must feed in the code before the Ignition system could be activated.

If I were investigating this Incident, I would check out to see if a strange plane flew into Guerrero Negro and a couple of guys got a car. Were ther any Tracks coming into the area around the plane>
Find out if a plane did come in to GN and how long did it stay??

Skeet
e

shari - 12-24-2009 at 08:53 AM

there were car tracks that drove up to the plane...face it...the investigating skills of the local authorities is not real up to snuff.

dtbushpilot - 12-24-2009 at 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
It seems to me that a small Chip with a code number could be installed in the Ignition System of any Aircraft with a small device kept by the pilot who must feed in the code before the Ignition system could be activated.

If I were investigating this Incident, I would check out to see if a strange plane flew into Guerrero Negro and a couple of guys got a car. Were ther any Tracks coming into the area around the plane>
Find out if a plane did come in to GN and how long did it stay??

Skeet
e

It's not likely that they would use GN to steal the plane, no fuel or anything else available there and lots of eyes. They could easily fly to or from the mainland with fuel on board....dt

shari - 12-24-2009 at 08:58 AM

they found empty fuel jugs at the beginning of the runway so they fueled up...theives probably have torch cutters as part of their kit as most pilots put a prop lock on.

[Edited on 12-24-2009 by shari]

Skeet/Loreto - 12-24-2009 at 09:05 AM

Texas could be included but is a greater distance. They would go to where the Masses of people are concetrated. El Paso or Tucson.

I meant that the Theives could fly a Pilot into GN.
There isn't any evidence that a Plane flew somebody into Ascunion is there??
The Pilots would or could be notified and then be flown in from the MainLand. Just seems as if GN would be real handy.

Have they closed GN?? It was a Military type Airport the last ime I was there {3 months ago}. What happened?

Skeet/Loreto - 12-24-2009 at 09:12 AM

So Shari it could be said that they came by car or Pick up with fuel. taxied the airplane to the end of the runway for fueling.

It just seems that it was not local job or connection.
Would not surpise me at all that the Cartels have a couple of groups of these Thieves on hold somewhere just waiting for someone to cross the border in the type of plane they want.

Skeet

shari - 12-24-2009 at 09:13 AM

Gn is open and guarded by the military. There are many remote strips everywhere around here they could land and have a vehicle waiting...easy.

Skeet/Loreto - 12-24-2009 at 09:44 AM

shari: I appreciate your reporting and interest.
I have been working for the past year trying to get Homeland Security involed in doing some "Protection Work' South of the Border. It is difficult.

For your case as you know theres guys have to bring fuel with them as they have no way of knowing the amt. of fuel already on board.

If you also check, I doubt if there is any aviation fuel at your place.

I will contunie my efforts to get anyone I can interested in developing a small device for Mexico Pilots., I think that would be the answer. But it will take a bunch of letters and emails to get to the right connection going.

Good Luck

Skeet

Pearls from Swine ?

MrBillM - 12-24-2009 at 11:35 AM

Or Skeet ?

Terrorists flying pilots into GN for an aerial attack on San Diego ?

AND, they would ALSO fly in their "Dirty Bombs" or would those be purchased at the local Al Queda "Bombs r Us" ?

Where would these flights likely originate ? What if no appropriate planes for theft flew in to GN during the time frame ?

IF the Terrorists FLEW in their suicidal pilot (and Bomb ?), that would mean they already had a plane. Why would they be stealing another one ?

I'm READY, WILLING and ABLE to buy into Skeeter's conspiracy.

I'm already developing a theory that Al Queda, the Taliban, The Masonics and the Bilderbergers (funded by an international Banking Cartel) are working on a worldwide network to utilize General Aviation Aircraft in a coordinated assault to attack and enslave us all. I've got the Aluminum shielding mostly finished and the Microwave monitors in place, BUT I still need a little clarification first.

Count on me when those Texas Buffalo Chips are Down. I'm the Man, Skeet.

Skeet/Loreto - 12-24-2009 at 11:46 AM

Mr. Billikins:

Since 911 there have been several reports done" Homeland Security has determined that Nuke Plants are Safe from attack from small Planes.
There is a General Aviation Govt. program right now but most of what it does is Airports and Crop Dusters.

Googel up the locations of recent Aircraft Thefts.
I think there will be an increase in these Thefts.

I would think that an Anti Theft Device would be a good Selling Point for all new and used Cessna 210's and similar aircraft.

As far as attacks on large groups of people, it does not take much Saran Gas in a low flying aircraft from TJ to spread trouble all over San Diego, El Paso, Tucson.
And Bill I will lay you a bet with good odds that I can take a plane to Mexciali and back and never get Busted!!

Bill There are already Terroists in Mexico. as well as in the States.

DENNIS - 12-24-2009 at 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
I would think that an Anti Theft Device would be a good Selling Point for all new and used Cessna 210's and similar aircraft.

Show me a good anti-theft device and I'll show you a fifteen year old who will disarm it in his sleep.

Saran Gas ?

MrBillM - 12-24-2009 at 12:02 PM

Is that some sort of attempt to make fun of Sarah Palin's Flatulence ?

While I can't claim to be any expert on SARIN Gas, an aerial delivery from South of the Border in a stolen plane seems to me to be a little unlikely and not the most efficient bang for the (volume) Buck. I could be wrong. I've been enlightened by Conspiracy Experts before pointing out Amazing things that mostly nobody (not under confinement for their own protection) would think of.

I confess to being a little unclear why these well-organized and well-funded terrorists would not simply steal the light aircraft IN the United States. They'd have a MUCH bigger selection and not need worry about getting through the ADIZ. Although it's been a lot of years since I was active in General Aviation, security at local airports wasn't great then and I don't see where there have been a lot of changes.

Don't take any of this as Criticism. Count me as one of those prospective Conspiratorial Allies ready to take the plunge.

What's your position on Fluoride ? Mixed with Sarin or not ?

Skeet/Loreto - 12-24-2009 at 12:39 PM

Bill: You and I know that if someone is determined they will get the job Done Flouride or Not.

I am not into Conspiracy Theorys: However I did do an long through Investigation in Hollywood where a State Employee was taking $5,000 a whack to get their name moved up on the Local Cadilac Dealers list for New Cadilac.

Loading an Aircraft would be easier from South of the Border. Especially if close to a large City.

Hollywood Hijinks ?

MrBillM - 12-24-2009 at 02:26 PM

Skeet ?

What does "I did do an long through Investigation" involve ?

capt. mike - 12-24-2009 at 02:37 PM

i think it's kinda like if you get stopped by TSA and they pull you into secondary at the boarding gate......and they have to do a "long through investigation" rectally (rectumally? sp?) to see what you might be hiding up there..... :lol:

Skeet/Loreto - 12-24-2009 at 02:56 PM

Mr. Bill

I forgot!

Sharksbaja - 12-24-2009 at 03:45 PM

:rolleyes:

I just hope you run all those letters and forms through spell check, otherwise the authorities might think you are a foreigner.

If you think about those jugs of avgas they used it makes one think about where they filled those up. GN? Ensenada? I mean how easy and how available is avgas down there. Is it just that easy to go to an airport or what and fill up?

Inasmuch I wouldn't think it too hard to check that out by the authorities.
Still, these guys obviously have an inside. Too bad that GN checkpoint doesn't check. They might have seen the jugs of gas go through. I doubt that any out-of -towners would know the shortcut around the stateline checkpoint.

They must have some really lame investigators that work the stolen airplane thang. Oh, and that is some radar installation! :lol:

woody with a view - 12-24-2009 at 03:53 PM

Quote:

I doubt that any out-of -towners would know the shortcut around the stateline checkpoint.

c'mon Sharks!

even I know about that one!

Skeet/Loreto - 12-24-2009 at 04:21 PM

Comon you guys ! this is Baja Sur Mx.!

There is no organized Investigation at all. No one is paid to Investigate Aircraft Thefts in Mexico. Especially if it is Americano!!

If you can get a good Accident Investigation with the help of the NTSB it has to involve Airliners!

It is very easy to go to Loreto Aiport and buy Aviation Fuel. Just pay the guy who is handling the Pump a couple of estra Bucks, same at any location. he will not ask what you are going to do with it.

Question Sharks: have you ever seen an approach or take off from the Old Airstrip at the Hotel Mulege??

Skeet

Dinero Exchange ?

MrBillM - 12-24-2009 at 04:39 PM

"Just pay the guy who is handling the Pump a couple of estra Bucks, same at any location .........."

Are those available at ANY Cambio or only special ones ?

Skeet/Loreto - 12-24-2009 at 04:48 PM

Any Place in Mexico if you want something done just Flash a couple of $20 Bills and it is done.

Locator GPS System

Marla Daily - 12-24-2009 at 05:07 PM

Cars can have low-jack systems installed so they can be found in the event of theft.
Why not planes?

ncampion - 12-24-2009 at 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Marla Daily
Cars can have low-jack systems installed so they can be found in the event of theft.
Why not planes?

Marla, see my post at:
http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=43241

.

allanbartlett - 12-25-2009 at 12:28 AM

Would it be to much to ask for the Mexican Army or Federal police to set up a bait plane in a place known where it will get jacked by the narco guys? How hard would this be. I'm just trying to think outside the box. The cops in the US place highly wanted "bait cars" in neighborhoods with a high incidence of car thefts and they catch a lot of the perpetrators. :no:

wessongroup - 12-25-2009 at 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Mr. Billikins:

Since 911 there have been several reports done" Homeland Security has determined that Nuke Plants are Safe from attack from small Planes.
There is a General Aviation Govt. program right now but most of what it does is Airports and Crop Dusters.

Googel up the locations of recent Aircraft Thefts.
I think there will be an increase in these Thefts.

I would think that an Anti Theft Device would be a good Selling Point for all new and used Cessna 210's and similar aircraft.

As far as attacks on large groups of people, it does not take much Saran Gas in a low flying aircraft from TJ to spread trouble all over San Diego, El Paso, Tucson.
And Bill I will lay you a bet with good odds that I can take a plane to Mexciali and back and never get Busted!!

Bill There are already Terroists in Mexico. as well as in the States.

Skeet's, Just googled the small craft thing with regards to nuke's.. not sure about their conclusion... what about 660 Model Turbo Thrush.. that guy can carry a load.. just wondering..

dtbushpilot - 12-25-2009 at 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by allanbartlett
Would it be to much to ask for the Mexican Army or Federal police to set up a bait plane in a place known where it will get jacked by the narco guys? How hard would this be. I'm just trying to think outside the box. The cops in the US place highly wanted "bait cars" in neighborhoods with a high incidence of car thefts and they catch a lot of the perpetrators. :no:

That would be entrapment. Their court appointed ACLU attorney would get it thrown out of court.......oh, wait, that would only happen in the US....sorry, as you were... :lol:

..dt

POSSIBLE DETERRENT!

ELINVESTIG8R - 12-25-2009 at 10:34 AM

capt. mike - 12-26-2009 at 10:17 AM

did you lift that image off Scheme Designers website?
looks like one of his designs. Craig Barnett.

i wish i could hire you do do my website. you do a lot of very cool stuff with graphics.

ELINVESTIG8R - 12-26-2009 at 02:28 PM

Captain Mike...Ssssshhhhh don't tell anyone where I got the plane from. As far as computer graphics I'm not good at all. I just bought a program called Easy Gif Animator:HEREYou can do the same thing I do with this program. It does take some getting used to though. You too can make your Avatar airplane go from this

to this

David

Hook - 12-26-2009 at 09:05 PM

Quote:

In so many instances in Mexico, this tactic would be so successful that I have often asked myself why isn't it being done by law enforcement?

And the conclusion I keep reaching is.............law enforcement itself must have a vested interest in many of these crimes continuing.

It's the only plausible explanation besides sheer cowardice. :?:

Never Discount Cowardice

MrBillM - 12-27-2009 at 10:50 AM

Wherever the Cops might be.

Back in the late 90s into 2002 while I was working down in Hemet, Ca. and keeping an apartment there in what turned out to be a fairly rough neighborhood. I was less than Five minutes from the police station (at normal speeds).

Although they had amazing code and traffic enforcement, on any of the numerous occasions when shots were fired in the area, the response time was VERY SLOW. I remember one occasion when they showed up about 40 minutes later, figuring all would be sorted out by then, I guess. Should have probably told them there was a car out front with an expired tag.

Like they say "When Seconds Count, the Cops are only MINUTES away".

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