BajaNomad - 2015 Baja Pole Line Road 4x4 Run (April 4th, 5th, 6th - 2015)

2015 Baja Pole Line Road 4x4 Run (April 4th, 5th, 6th - 2015)

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David K - 3-29-2015 at 12:51 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Ken Cooke

Who is cooking for you? David K :lol:

Oh, I can boil water! :lol:

These backpacker meals are great and easy!

4x4abc - 3-29-2015 at 12:52 AM

Cohabuzo Junction it will be
haven't been on the pole line road for 15 years

where is basketball hill?

20-30 miles?

Ken Cooke - 3-29-2015 at 12:55 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

The Pole Line Group is traveling south from Hwy. 2 at Laguna Salada, past Cohabuzo Jcn. to the base of the old summit (Jamau) road (Pole Line Road) and joining it going from WEST to EAST.

Saturday Night we will be in the middle of the 20-30 mile WWII road run.

Mile 1 - Hwy 2/Laguna Salada

Mile 57 - COHABUZO JUNCTION (from Hwy 2)

Mile 83.5 - Gated entrance to Pole Line Road

Mile 96.4 - Basketball Hill

Mile 102.7 - Top of "Bad Hill"

Mile 124.3 - "Y", Go left, east, slightly downhill for El Chinero on Hwy 5 or go right, south, to Hwy. 3.

Mile 130.5 - Hwy 5 a few miles north of Hwy. 5/3 Junction

Although, these mileage numbers seem meager, they consume gallons of gasoline and from Progreso, Mexicali to the Rio Hardy area, consume 29 gallons in our Jeeps. Be sure to arrive prepared with plenty of fuel.

David K - 3-29-2015 at 12:59 AM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

Cohabuzo Junction it will be
haven't been on the pole line road for 15 years

where is basketball hill?

Middle of the run... overall area incl. Cohabuzo Jcn. and Basketball Hill... Pole Line Road is blue line:

Close Up West Half:

East Half:

4x4abc - 3-29-2015 at 01:11 AM

so I am googling basketball hill
find some of my own images
find that it is linked to the Nomad site
what a surprise!
looks like someone "borrowed" images from my site

20-30 miles?

David K - 3-29-2015 at 01:12 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Ken Cooke

Quote: Originally posted by David K

You aren't on the Pole Line Road until Mile 83.5... and you are leaving it at the T Junction (Mile 109) or Arroyo Grande (Mile 113)... that's 26-30 miles.

[Edited on 3-29-2015 by David K]

David K - 3-29-2015 at 01:18 AM

Harald, here are the GPS and mile markers on the run...

Approx. location of Basketball Hill... red arrow...

[Edited on 3-29-2015 by David K]

$160 USD fine for use of my Pro-Comp tow rope

Ken Cooke - 3-29-2015 at 01:23 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Quote: Originally posted by Ken Cooke

Quote: Originally posted by David K

You aren't on the Pole Line Road until Mile 83.5... and you are leaving it at the T Junction (Mile 109) or Arroyo Grande (Mile 113)... that's 26-30 miles.

[Edited on 3-29-2015 by David K]

I had to pull a Jeep up the Mission Impossible waterfall. Nope, it wasn't much fun (on 3 wheels). If a rig runs out of gas, I know those Tacomas are more stable tow vehicles. :lol:

David K - 3-29-2015 at 02:30 AM

I have a Dick Cepek Baja Proven Tow Strap in my truck storage compartment, used many times to pull lesser vehicles out of trouble... no charge, no fine, just strong words about what vehicle should be in your corral instead!
:biggrin:

MICK - 3-29-2015 at 06:33 AM

Just a reminder that you can not go across the border with you gas cans full. all gas cans MUST be empty. They will turn you around and they will check. For some reason this is the only border rules that they always seem to follow.

Ken Cooke - 3-30-2015 at 10:31 PM

Quote: Originally posted by MICK

Just a reminder that you can not go across the border with you gas cans full. all gas cans MUST be empty. They will turn you around and they will check. For some reason this is the only border rules that they always seem to follow.

Thank you for this timely information, MICK. Also on the FMM papers. You are right. Too many crowds, too many people = way too much paperwork.

PaulW - 3-31-2015 at 07:56 AM

The route Ken described 3/29 from hwy 2 to the north side of the summit to get to the PLR gate area.
1) Overview Route from Hwy 2 to PLR gates mostly via wash at S end

2) View from Cohabuzo to PLR gates. We stopped using the W loop and the last few years stayed in the wash heading N because the W loop is so very rough. Both ways will work.

3) This pic is an updated version of a previous post for the Gate area. Hopefully more clear now. The new race road turns slightly SW at the fence gate.
Your route would pass thru the fence gate in the wash then pass the locked gate and go S by SW. Soon it turns right at the T shown to get on the traditional PLR then head SE.

[Edited on 3-31-2015 by PaulW]

Ken Cooke - 3-31-2015 at 09:48 AM

Hi Paul,

Once again, Thank you for providing so much information on this area. Do you have photographs of the berms and the 'no go's' in this area? No go-arounds? When you say, 'rough', how bad going did it all appear?

This may take us a few hours (or more) to locate adequate routes that you have mentioned.

PaulW - 3-31-2015 at 11:40 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Ken Cooke

Hi Paul,

Once again, Thank you for providing so much information on this area. Do you have photographs of the berms and the 'no go's' in this area? No go-arounds? When you say, 'rough', how bad going did it all appear?

This may take us a few hours (or more) to locate adequate routes that you have mentioned.

=========
No Pics even tho I have done the trip from the summit at least 10 times. Got lots of gps tracks. Anyway the so called loop road the drifts west of the so called wash track is strewn with boulders and is rough compared to driving in the sand wash. The WP called “stay wash” is the jct of the two that we needed marked when traveling north due to a 270 deg turn. The racers for all classes used that “loop” many times and they abandoned it due to all the complaints and SCORE sent one of the guys down the wash and found it was OK. None of you guys will have any problem with either option. Just use low range and keep the revs up. Normal sand driving. I think the loop will be somewhat slower.

The berm at the “no go” is not very significant. I think I said it was a feeble attempt to close that track. I so labeled for the race guys I gave the GPS file to. They always come down from the summit and it would not be good if they went over that berm because they would first come to a locked fence gate then the washouts below. We passed that locked fence gate by unwiring the fence and proceeded up to the berm when we drove that track in Jan 2014 with no clue that there was a new track made for the race. Remember the 250 race when the summit was closed off. They made that new road and did not use it. The “no Go” is my new name because I fell into the washout on my right side. High centered and everyone pitched in for about 45 minutes and piled rocks so I could back out. The reason I fell in was the off camber washout and was to narrow and my right side wheels slipped into the washout. It was a little over 3' deep. There is a go around to the S of that track where I got stuck, but I walked to it and it was almost as bad. Then one of the guys said “the road is over there” on the ridge. So we sent the tail gunner back to see if he could find it and sure enough it is the track I labeled “New Race” (note the over write of Trail 1).

Here are the two tracks we are discussing. The rough one is on the west side and the one on the right is mostly sand wash.
I sent the Google Earth and GPS tracks to Tom (TMW) and Edward Hall (ehall). Maybe they can forward the GPS files to the guys on the trip that have the units.
Waypoints are from SCORE for a vehicle travelling to Cahobozo

Paul

[Edited on 3-31-2015 by PaulW]

David K - 3-31-2015 at 04:47 PM

How far south of Cohabuzo Jcn. is the Mano Canyon Road Jcn., do you have the waypoint for it.

I recall it was in a big sandy wash back in 2003.

bajatrailrider - 4-1-2015 at 09:18 AM

David K speaking of Mano canyon Road.Another member asked me.When I meet you (but I will forget) The Governors Mansion,pool of water near El Mano is this route doable with 4x4.Cool place to see?

TMW - 4-1-2015 at 09:53 AM

Here is a GE view of the routes from the gate that Paul showed and a route to El Mano road. The one to the left.

MICK - 4-1-2015 at 12:48 PM

So the river is running full between here and Laguna salada because of the full moon. So I am either going to head north and meet you guys at the entrance to LS or head south and go in at tres posas and met still at cabuzo jct. anyone else heading in from the south?
Mick

4x4abc - 4-1-2015 at 02:14 PM

Quote: Originally posted by MICK

So the river is running full between here and Laguna salada because of the full moon. So I am either going to head north and meet you guys at the entrance to LS or head south and go in at tres posas and met still at cabuzo jct. anyone else heading in from the south?
Mick

Mick,

I am coming up from La Paz. Will set up my sun shade at Cohabuzo Junction for a (kinda) noon meeting.

4x4abc - 4-1-2015 at 02:17 PM

I need your help guys - if you have a supermarket nearby selling Western Family articles, I need some cans.

I need:
http://westernfamily.com/products/premium-hot-chili-con-carn...

Desperately need them for my beans mix - so, can someone please get 10 cans?

Karl tried in Los Angles, but had no luck.

ehall - 4-1-2015 at 03:59 PM

I will look for the beans tomorrow. We have an IGA here in town.

ehall - 4-1-2015 at 04:01 PM

I will look for the beans tomorrow. We have an IGA here in town.

David K - 4-1-2015 at 04:07 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bajatrailrider

David K speaking of Mano canyon Road.Another member asked me.When I meet you (but I will forget) The Governors Mansion,pool of water near El Mano is this route doable with 4x4.Cool place to see?

I think it was determined to be a general's hunting lodge/ prostitution retreat? That was at Santa Isabel Canyon, north of Mano/ south of Palomar Canyon... See the airplane/ landing strip symbol for the general's plane?

4x4abc - 4-1-2015 at 04:41 PM

interesting is the road that was built south of the building, extending about 3 miles. Anyone any info on that one?

I remember the time when the house was active. Military everywhere. You could not get closer than about a mile. However, I used Arroyo Santa Isabel one day and got very close to house. Almost got me arrested.

[Edited on 4-1-2015 by 4x4abc]

David K - 4-1-2015 at 04:43 PM

What road? South of what building?

4x4abc - 4-1-2015 at 04:57 PM

building = the place they call the Governor's mansion

the road:

David K - 4-1-2015 at 05:34 PM

Thanks Harald... never saw a road up the mountain from the place before... but I haven't looked in a while.

There is just so much Baja to explore... and so little time in our life!

On edit, if it was going to be re-occupied... maybe for a cell tower or some other antenna to reach Mexicali?

[Edited on 4-24-2015 by David K]

4x4abc - 4-1-2015 at 05:43 PM

not high enough for line of sight connection

maybe looking for a water source
mining?
dunno

David K - 4-2-2015 at 09:11 AM

Have a safe drive north from La Paz... see you at Cohabuzo Jcn. or ???

[Edited on 4-2-2015 by David K]

4x4abc - 4-2-2015 at 10:36 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Have a safe drive north from La Paz... see you at Cohabuzo Jcn. or ???

[Edited on 4-2-2015 by David K]

leaving La Paz right now - see you at Cohabuzo Junction

Ken Cooke - 4-2-2015 at 11:00 AM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Have a safe drive north from La Paz... see you at Cohabuzo Jcn. or ???

[Edited on 4-2-2015 by David K]

leaving La Paz right now - see you at Cohabuzo Junction

See you there!

MICK - 4-2-2015 at 01:13 PM

We are going in Saldana and will meet you at cabuzo jct also. Cb 4
2mm 146.500
Mick

western Family

ehall - 4-2-2015 at 01:46 PM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

I need your help guys - if you have a supermarket nearby selling Western Family articles, I need some cans.

I need:
http://westernfamily.com/products/premium-hot-chili-con-carn...

Desperately need them for my beans mix - so, can someone please get 10 cans?

Karl tried in Los Angles, but had no luck.

My store only carries Dennison. You still want them?

David K - 4-2-2015 at 01:51 PM

Is the wrong chili still better than no chili?
Since Harald is driving up from La Paz, he probable left already?

ehall - 4-2-2015 at 05:57 PM

I was thinking the same thing. If I don't hear from him I will grab some tomorrow afternoon.

Fernweh - 4-2-2015 at 06:25 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ehall

I was thinking the same thing. If I don't hear from him I will grab some tomorrow afternoon.

I got already 8 cans of the Denison Hot Chilli Con Carne, so please just bring a few (6 to 8)

Karl

ehall - 4-2-2015 at 07:24 PM

Ok thanks. I will grab some.

4x4abc - 4-2-2015 at 07:28 PM

Quote: Originally posted by MICK

We are going in Saldana and will meet you at cabuzo jct also. Cb 4
2mm 146.500
Mick

I usually run 146.460 but I'll dial in 146.500

4x4abc - 4-2-2015 at 07:30 PM

thanks guys on the hot chili con carne front
I guess, as long as it is "hot" it will do
I mainly need it for spicing up my pot

just reached San Ignacio for the night

Ken Cooke - 4-2-2015 at 08:55 PM

I am now packed and ready for this adventure! Tomorrow night I will stay in El Centro.

David K - 4-3-2015 at 08:00 AM

Will pack up the Tacoma tonight... but have all my gear set out so it is ready... traveling real light, so no hot tub or dance floor (although Ken Cooke is a DJ)!

Leaving San Marcos close to 5:30 tomorrow morning so I hope to be in Calexico easily by 8.

bajatrailrider - 4-3-2015 at 08:23 AM

I think Im ready,as no more room to load more junk.Even removed rear seat.

CIMG3932.JPG - 93kB

David K - 4-3-2015 at 09:16 AM

Do I see a ladder? You joining us for the hike Monday?

Why the Pole Line Road was built...

David K - 4-3-2015 at 10:08 AM

This story talks about how the U.S. built the modern road from Mexicali to San Felipe in 1942, and why. The Pole Line Road was built to secure and maintain the new telephone line the U.S. installed from the telephone line in Ensenada across to San Felipe to communicate with our radar station there:

From Gene Kira's MexFish.com

MILK RUN” (LITERALLY)

“The first trip I made to San Felipe in Mexico was to deliver dairy products to the Army radar station in the spring of 1942.

“Sometime, in about April I think, my dad pulled me out of the second grade, and we got into a 1938 Dodge truck and headed for San Felipe.

“The truck was filled with milk, butter, eggs, cheese and ice cream and we were headed for the army ‘base’ at San Felipe.

“Because of the war, there was a 35 m.p.h. speed limit, and we spent the night at Calexico, at the Anza Hotel, I think.

“We got up early the next morning. I don't remember having to stop going in either direction at the border. We crossed at Calexico and it was marked as the border, but I don't think there was any official border activity.

“We were not far out of town, across the border, when we were stopped at the first of maybe four check points before we reached San Felipe. These stops were manned by American soldiers, not Mexicans.

“My dad explained that we were going to a military installation in San Felipe that had just been built, and what it did was listen for airplanes using something called ‘radar.’ In the last six months, the Army had built a paved road to San Felipe called the ‘radar road’ which made the drive south a lot easier than it had been, unlike the month-long ordeal of mud and flood up until 1942.

“What we drive on today is the ‘radar road,’ although it has been paved a couple of times since then.

“I may be the only person to remember driving on that stretch of road during World War II who is still alive today. I can remember, the water was right up to the road's edge in places, and my dad said that if it were not for the road, we'd have to wait for the tides to change and for the mud to dry out.

“The ‘base’ was near where the old icehouse was until recently, and we were stopped from driving into the main area. About 20 young soldiers came out to the barbed-wire fence and had the truck unloaded in a very short time, and we turned right around and headed home.”

=======================================================

http://www.northamericanforts.com/Latin/mexico.html#radar

American WWII Air Defense Radar Stations
(1942 - 1943), State of Baja California (Norte)
During the early years of WWII the U.S. Army built and manned at least three SCR-270 early warning anti-aircraft radar stations along the coast of Baja California Norte, operated by the 654th AWS Company, to protect the southern approaches to San Diego, California. Known sites include Station B-92 at Punta Salispuedes, located 22 miles northwest of Ensenada (later moved to Alasitos, 36 miles south of Tijuana); Station B-94 at Punta San Jacinto, 60 miles south of Ensenada; and Station B-97 at Punta Estrella (Diggs), south of San Felipe on the Gulf of California (aka Sea of Cortez).

Mexico and the Defense of California in WWII

David K - 4-3-2015 at 10:47 AM

From: http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/USA-WH-Frame/USA-WH-Fram...

Mexico and the Defense of California

American concern for the security of Mexico was intimately related to the extent and proximity of any threat to United States territory. After the attack on Pearl Harbor, the security of Baja California became a matter of acute interest to the United States. Just as lend-lease was a manifestation of American interest in the security of Mexico, so the measures taken by General DeWitt and General Card##as, singly and jointly for the defense of the United States' southwest and Mexico's northwest were concrete expressions of Mexican cooperation in the defense of the United States.

There were three fields of activity in which the defense of California involved joint action with Mexico: first, the placing of aircraft detector stations in Baja California; second, the building of airfields and highways there; and third, the formulation of joint plans by General DeWitt and General Card##as.

The proposal to establish radar stations in Baja California grew out of a study made by the GHQ Air Force early in 1941, disclosing that vital areas in the southwest, near the Mexican boundary, could not be adequately covered either by a ground observation system or by radar detectors in American territory. "An enemy desiring to attack Southern California," a later Air Forces report stated, "may be expected to be aware of the limitations of our Aircraft Warning Service, and will make his approach over or from Mexican territory. " The Air Forces therefore recommended taking steps to obtain Mexico's permission to establish at least two detector stations in Baja California.

These views were brought to the attention of the War Plans Division sometime in April. Without denying the merits of the proposal, the War Plans Division informed the Army Air Forces that the moment was not propitious for discussing the subject with the Mexican staff representatives, then in Washington. The Air Forces continued to agitate the matter during the next three months, only to receive the same reply: "The War Department considers it inadvisable to submit to the Mexican representatives a request to station detachments of U.S. Army armed and uniformed forces in Mexican territory, as it is convinced that the Mexican Government would reject such a request at this time. In framing the War Plans Division reply, Colonel Ridgway, then serving as one of the American staff representatives, noted, "there is no probability of securing Mexican consent . . . at least until an Axis attack is delivered or imminent."

No action was taken until 3 December 1941, four days before the attack on Pearl Harbor, when the American staff representatives presented their Mexican colleagues with a proposal for an immediate reconnaissance of Sonora and Baja California for the purpose of locating sites for radar stations. Although it was agreed that the necessity of using the installations might never arise, the American representatives nevertheless proposed that the preliminary steps be taken at once and that small mixed groups of United States officers and Mexicans, in civilian clothes, should survey the area within two hundred miles of the border for access roads and radar sites. An appeal on 8 December brought a reply from President Avila Camacho the same day giving full permission to make the reconnaissance and install the radar stations. To the original purpose the Air Staff had, however, added that of investigating rumors of Japanese airfields and fuel caches. A separate party under Maj. A. P. Ebright conducted the Air Staff survey, entering Mexico on 16 December. An attempt by the War Department to identify the Ebright mission with the radar station reconnaissance no doubt contributed to the initial confusion and suspicion that attended it.

Although no signs of enemy activity were uncovered, the Ebright party remained in Mexico until the end of January to investigate suitable sites for landing fields, to report on the availability of water and other supplies along the route of communications from the border south, and in general to add to the Army's store of information about the area.

As the immediate post-Pearl Harbor frenzy subsided and as the scope and positions of the Ebright mission became clarified, General DeWitt's Western Defense Command headquarters gave it firmer support against the continued skepticism at the headquarters of the Southern California Sector. Meanwhile, other groups had crossed the border, and had tentatively chosen sites for radar detector stations at Punta Salispuedes, 20 miles northwest of Ensenada; Punta San Jacinto, 125 miles south of Ensenada; and Punta Diggs on the northeast coast of the peninsula.

With all this activity going on, the issue that had threatened the negotiations over staging fields the previous summer-whether Mexico would permit the entry and stationing of armed and uniformed American soldiers promised to become a hardy perennial. On the earlier occasion, it had been solved by accepting the Mexican position, and when the proposal for the reconnaissance of Baja California was presented to the staff representatives on 3 December the wearing of civilian clothes by the soldiers making the survey was accepted by the American representatives as inescapable. The first draft of the instructions for "the reconnaissance, drawn up on 9 December for the Chief of the Army Air Forces, stated, "United States personnel will be limited to officers and they will wear civilian clothing," but at the suggestion of G-2, and with the concurrence of Colonel Ridgway, this particular restriction was deleted.

Because of the United States' belligerent status, it was no longer appropriate. General DeWitt was especially insistent that no soldiers cross into Mexico unless in uniform and armed, but the point was not raised with Mexican representatives in Washington. Consequently, the Ebright group was turned back at the border and not permitted to cross until the men changed into civilian clothing and left their weapons behind. Sometimes, depending on the attitude of the local Mexican commanders, American parties were permitted to enter the country in uniform, but never under arms, and not even the excellent personal relations that existed between General DeWitt and General Card##as could bring about a definite acceptance of the American view. The War Department as well as the Department of State took the position that, unsatisfactory though it might be to send American soldiers into Mexico in civilian clothes and without arms, to arrive at an impasse with Mexico and risk having permission to install the radar sets refused would be even more undesirable. Accordingly, on 20 December General DeWitt was authorized to accede to Mexican wishes in the matter. His efforts to obtain a less dangerous and more face-saving solution continued but met with slight success. After the summer of 1942 this particular issue ceased to be a matter of record. The establishment of the radar stations, a diminution of American activity in Baja California, and the withdrawal of American personnel were probably responsible.

Two of the radar stations were set up and began operations during the first week in June 1942 and the third a month later. At each, one officer and twenty-five enlisted men were stationed to operate the set and train Mexican military personnel in its use. The equipment itself was turned over to the Mexican Army under lend-lease. By the end of August the Mexican troops had taken over the operation of the sets, and the Americans had withdrawn except for a small detachment of five men and one officer at each station.

The coverage provided by the three sets was far from complete, but even as early as October 1942 the War Department was breathing more easily and saw no need to install additional equipment.

By the summer of 1943 retrenchment had become the order of the day in Baja California. All Americans were withdrawn from the radar stations except for one officer and three enlisted men, who were left in Ensenada primarily for liaison purposes. All requests for additional equipment had to be refused. By mid-May 1944 the Commanding General, Fourth Air Force, reported that he no longer considered the three radar stations necessary for the defense of California and, much to the dismay of both Navies, who wished to have the sets in operation for air-sea rescue work, operations ceased about the first of June. When, at a meeting of the defense commission, Admiral Johnson protested against a Mexican Army proposal to move the equipment to Mexico City, General Henry was obliged to state that the War Department's policy of retrenchment remained unchanged but that there would be no objection to the Navy's supplying and maintaining the operation of the sets.

For the remainder of the war, the Army had no further responsibility in the matter. One station resumed operation with gasoline and oil supplied by the Navy. The other two were moved away. During the two years they had been in operation, the stations performed a useful function. They had closed all but a small gap in the network around the San Diego-Los Angeles area. Anticipated language difficulties failed to materialize to any great extent, and valuable training in the use of highly technical equipment was given our Mexican ally.

As part of the general scheme of filling in the gaps in the defenses of California after the attack on Pearl Harbor, the Fourth Air Force had strongly urged the building of three landing fields for pursuit planes in Baja California and two staging fields, one near Rosario and the other near La Paz. Time, and authority to use the fields for operations, were the important considerations.

Both the War Department and the joint defense commission, when formally constituted, were agreed upon the desirability of the proposal, which the commission adopted as its Fourth Recommendation on 10 April 1942. After some backing and filling a joint survey got well under way and recommended three sites as primary airdromes-El Cipres, six miles south of Ensenada; Camalu, just south of San Jacinto; and Trinidad, about eighteen miles south of La Ventura. Later, four other fields were surveyed. For three weeks at the end of June and in early July the War Department, on the advice of the joint defense commission, called a halt to all activity in connection with the airfields in order to give Mexican opinion time to crystallize and to give General Card##as an opportunity to make a decision.

After authority was given to proceed with the plans and estimates for the original five airfields, General Card##as and especially General Juan Felipe Rico, the local Mexican commander, took hold of the project with enthusiasm and pushed not only the airfields but also a connecting highway down the peninsula. General DeWitt promised any help in materials and equipment that General Rico might need. The United States, General DeWitt thought, was committed to assist both projects, the roads as well as the airfields.

By the beginning of 1943, the War Department had begun to cool, although the Fourth Air Force still urged that the three northern fields, at El Cipres, Camalu, and Trinidad, be constructed and tied to San Diego by connecting roads. In March the War Department rejected General Rico's request for materials and equipment for the construction of the airfields. The Mexican section of the joint commission thus found itself in the position, in August, of arguing in favor of the United States Army undertaking a defense construction project on Mexican soil, while the American section was opposed. With the War Department unwilling to provide the construction materials because of the urgent needs of more active theaters of operations, the discussion became academic.

In the field of joint planning, the Mexican experience took a contrary course to that of Canadian-United States planning. In the case of the latter a basic plan was drawn up by the Permanent Joint Board, and local joint plans, more detailed and specific, were subsequently completed in accordance with its general principles. With Mexico, on the other hand, the only joint plan completed during the war was the DeWitt-Card##as plan of February-March 1942 for the defense of the Pacific coastal region. When later the joint defense commission undertook to draw up a plan, two of the members-Admiral Johnson and General Castillo Najera-understood that the commission was supposed to base its plan on the DeWitt-Card##as agreements. A casual observer would perhaps have seen little in the local situation to indicate much success for the Western Defense Command planners. The local Mexican commanders either were uncertain of their authority to commit the federal government or were reluctant to accept instructions from Mexico City; the difficulties and delays in obtaining full permission for a reconnaissance in Baja California were inauspicious. But such an observer would have been wrong. Actually, the Mexican commanders made clear their willingness and desire to cooperate, and if they were reluctant to place their names to a document committing them to joint action, they made it plain by word of mouth that in an emergency they would call on General DeWitt to send American troops into Mexico.

In its final shape the plan represented a compromise between an earlier draft drawn up by General DeWitt's headquarters and one presented by General Card##as.90 It provided for the patrol and defense of the two coastal areas-Mexican and American-by the forces of the respective countries, for an exchange of information between the two forces, and for the passage of troops of either country through the territory of the other; and it permitted the forces of either country to operate in the other, in uniform and under arms. There were several provisions that failed to meet with the approval of General Card##as. The Mexican commander could not agree to the control and operation of airfields and radar stations in Mexico by American personnel, and insisted that the forces of one country operating in the territory of the other be under the commander in whose area they were operating. Both generals agreed that the plan was sound from a "military standpoint" and that "the question from a nationalistic standpoint is one for the decision of the two governments." The points on which the two commanders could not agree were accordingly turned over to the joint defense commission.

The American section thought it best to defer consideration of a general, basic plan until such specific matters as the radar stations and airfields were agreed upon, and when the draft of a basic plan was presented by Col. Lemuel Mathewson at the meeting of 21 April 1942, it was patterned after the Canada-United States Basic Defense Plan of 1940.

Little progress had been made when Admiral Johnson, becoming chairman of the American section, suggested a fresh start and a new approach. This was in December 1942. The new scheme-to draw up a plan of collaboration, in ratification of the agreements reached by the commission, instead of a defense plan-was no more easily agreed upon than the old. General Henry, recently appointed senior Army member, took over the job of drafting a new plan in collaboration with General Alamillo of the Mexican section.

Discussion during the meetings the following summer and fall reveal what seem to be a measure of impatience and perhaps satiation. The question of command proved to be the stumbling block, and by April 1944 General Henry was ready to abandon the attempt to write an acceptable plan. Finally, after more than two years of effort, the commission decided upon a "statement of general principles . . . which might serve as a basis for other plans of collaboration between any two nations."

In a broader sense, the wartime collaboration between the United States and Mexico cannot be measured adequately by the activity in Baja California, by the joint planning of General DeWitt and General Card##as, by the deliberations of the defense commission, or by the airfields provided from Tampico to Tapachula. All of these might well have created dissension. But from the early wartime experience came a closer bond between the two countries. The commendable combat record of the Mexican 201st Fighter Squadron on Luzon, the Mexican airmen who gave their lives in the same cause for which American fliers died, these were the true measure of the cooperation that began in 1941. There were indications that ties so strongly forged would not be lightly dropped. Although the joint defense commission had not been formally designated as a permanent body, plans were made at a staff conference in March 1945, at which the American members of the commission represented the United States, to continue the defense commission in the postwar years. The mutual confidence and respect between the two countries that developed out of their wartime association are proof that the New World can still serve as a beacon for the Old.

ehall - 4-3-2015 at 01:37 PM

What's all the dog food for Larry?

Ken Cooke - 4-3-2015 at 04:26 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ehall

What's all the dog food for Larry?

Probably to help flatten the leaf springs to provide traction and help smooth out the ride.

ehall - 4-6-2015 at 10:45 PM

Home safe. Great trip.

ChuckMRN - 4-7-2015 at 08:00 AM

Quote: Originally posted by ehall

Home safe. Great trip.

glad you made it back safe. good meeting you, thanks for all the help.

chuck

ehall - 4-7-2015 at 09:18 AM

Thanks Chuck. Nice meeting you and your awesome jeep. Welcome to the site.

Ken Cooke - 4-7-2015 at 01:15 PM

Thanks Ed and Chuck for navigation help and towing helP. It was a great run with lots to talk about! Both of your Jeeps are top-notch!

norte - 4-7-2015 at 01:21 PM

Whats all this stuff about towing? What happened?

elgatoloco - 4-7-2015 at 01:25 PM

Quote: Originally posted by norte

Whats all this stuff about towing? What happened?

I suspect you will find out. Eventually. Or not. :saint:

Baja Pole Line Run Press Release

Ken Cooke - 4-7-2015 at 02:39 PM

I better not forget to mention all of the other tow rigs:

TW - Tacoma Tow Taco award!
John M. - Tacoma Tow Taco
Ryan - Chevy Blazer Tow rig
BajaTrailRider - Diesel Nissan Tow rig
MICK - towee and Tow Truck operator
Ed Hall - RUBICON Tow Jeep
Harald P. - M BENZ winch operator running VIKING WINCH cable.
HUITZI - RUBICON Tow Jeep

Photos to follow...

Ken Cooke - 4-7-2015 at 06:43 PM

Any word on Will and the status of his run to MICK's house last night??? :?:

MICK - 4-7-2015 at 07:32 PM

Drove the ranger all the way back no problem. In shop now getting new stuff in the tranny. Got Will back to the house and got a new distributor from a friend. Had a great carnitas dinner prepared by penny also some great conversation. Got up this morning installed a used dust. And module. After some trick wiring. Will and Larry left about noon hope they got home
Mick

David K - 4-8-2015 at 08:25 AM

Wonderful!

When TW, Frigatebird and I reached the wells after our Arroyo Grande hikes, the man there said 10 Jeeps had come by the day before. I could only imagine the hell you went through going via Ejido Saldaña only to find it washed out and have to double back and use Arroyo Grande route instead!!??

Harald (4x4ABC) and Karl (Fernwah) tried to head back to La Paz via the upper end of Arroyo Grande and out to Hwy. 3... so we parted at Arroyo D Saturday morning about 10:30.

ehall - 4-8-2015 at 12:59 PM

It was kind of funny seeing it on the GPS. The washes were only about 3 or 4 miles apart but are completely different. The arroyo grande was mostly smooth sand but the one we went down was full of rocks of all sizes and shapes.

bajatrailrider - 4-8-2015 at 09:04 PM

We made it back Thanks to Mick,Penn,Ryan and the whole group.Mick found parts,towed him,fixed him,housed us,Dinner,breakfast.They have a real nice place.Wil is here now,He has million thanks.We had a blast,thanks for having us.The best part was towing Wil in the sand wash,with the little Nissan.We where laughing so hard towing him so fast. Everybody on trail ride good people.

Ken Cooke - 4-8-2015 at 09:18 PM

I'm glad to hear everyone made it back okay. What a rush! Watching you guys with that tow strap, winch lines, etc. It was crazy out there all weekend. Crazy fun! :bounce:

David K - 4-8-2015 at 11:30 PM

I just finished writing Day 1 of my trip report (on a Word page)... more data than most will want... but glean off whatever you like from it! It will be in the Nomad Trip Reports forum... with my photos.

Great to hear back from the members of the run!

Edit: here is my trip report: http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=78437

[Edited on 4-9-2015 by David K]

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