Santa Isabel Found - not joking - nomad wanted

Quote:

Originally posted by BAJACAT Souds, good I will keep checking this thread for info..I hope DK goes with us..or any nomads that would like to acompany us in this crazzy quest.. Elbeu, next time we see ya, you are going to have to buy the Victorias(cerveza), Pacifico's are so overated,(sorry DENNIS)..

Speaking of VICTORIA!!!:







[Edited on 4-9-2011 by David K]

That would be great Lou! I hope you come to El Volcan!!

Yah, Lou can haul the cooler 3 to 4 miles is a long walk in a sandy or rocky arroyo.. and that is just one way!

There are some tread marks that start to head towards the arroyo farther North. They either end or just can't be seen in GE after a bit, but considering the ground they already cover, perhaps you could push farther and get to the arroyo very close to the site.

Of course, things like this look easy from a birds-eye-view but might be impassible on the ground...but perhaps it's worth a try?

KML File with more detail

TWO WEEKS TO GO...

Plans firming up... I just got a u2u from another Nomad who wants to join in the fun hike on April 30 to the lost mission of Santa Isabel!

Okay adventure seekers... where are you?

He's right. I've had a lot of fun learning about the El Volcan arroyo and surrounding area, and I love the interchange we're having about it...but the "evidence" for this expedition really is just my interpretation of blurry satellite imagery.

...Now...

That being said, I've gone back and forth in my mind about whether or not I see ruins (mission or otherwise), and I've still been actively researching to see if I can learn any more. I keep researching for two reasons. First, a bunch of you are making an expedition initiated by my post, and I feel a responsibility to do the best I can to learn as much as I can and pass it on for your trip. Second...I'm really enjoying this

Anyways...Lately I've been comparing and overlaying and twisting and turning four distinctly different satellite images of the site, and I'm back on the page of thinking I still see ruins (please pause here for sighs and laughter).

I'll be posting images of what I'm talking about, but they're kind of hard to produce and describe...mainly because I want it to be understandable to the casual reader of this thread, not just to overly-obsessive people like myself who are willing to spend time clicking image layers on and off and comparing pixels for absurd amounts of time. Like Bryan pointed out, the only "evidence" I have is the images (and up until now I've really only focused much on the GE image), so I'm going to introduce some new images and do my best to draw as much information from them as I can.

Thanks to everybody who's keeping an interest in this and making such great efforts to help!

Less than 2 weeks to go... it would seem I am back in with a Nomad passenger... It will be a fun hike and campfire story time... Everyone going, bring some fire wood if you can. Friday night and Saturday night in Arroyo el Volcan... Also, before we leave... a short (less than 1/2 mile) side trip up the arroyo to the El Volcan geyser and pools will be worth it... specially if there is nothing at Santa Isabel.

(remember, if we find the Jesuit gold stash... there is "nothing" at Santa Isabel )

Quote:

Originally posted by David K Less than 2 weeks to go... it would seem I am back in with a Nomad passenger... It will be a fun hike and campfire story time... Everyone going, bring some fire wood if you can. Friday night and Saturday night in Arroyo el Volcan... Also, before we leave... a short (less than 1/2 mile) side trip up the arroyo to the El Volcan geyser and pools will be worth it... specially if there is nothing at Santa Isabel. (remember, if we find the Jesuit gold stash... there is "nothing" at Santa Isabel )

I was sooooooo close to giving you a call to say I could come yesterday. I got the $$$ thing worked out, we had family who would have watched the kids, we had airfare chosen, but not purchased...then we realized that all three of our older kids would have to miss their standardized testing. DOH!!!!

My one daughter has been a little "off" lately so it's not reasonable to leave my wife alone to deal with her right now. So (once again) I am officially not coming...but it's killing me.

No matter what your expedition does or doesn't uncover, I'm going to start a thread planning a trip down the old El Tule trail for this fall (or whenever the whether gets reasonable again). Lost mission or not, I need to visit the arroyo this year.

Quote:

Originally posted by elbeau Quote: Originally posted by David K Less than 2 weeks to go... it would seem I am back in with a Nomad passenger... It will be a fun hike and campfire story time... Everyone going, bring some fire wood if you can. Friday night and Saturday night in Arroyo el Volcan... Also, before we leave... a short (less than 1/2 mile) side trip up the arroyo to the El Volcan geyser and pools will be worth it... specially if there is nothing at Santa Isabel. (remember, if we find the Jesuit gold stash... there is "nothing" at Santa Isabel ) I was sooooooo close to giving you a call to say I could come yesterday. I got the $$$ thing worked out, we had family who would have watched the kids, we had airfare chosen, but not purchased...then we realized that all three of our older kids would have to miss their standardized testing. DOH!!!! My one daughter has been a little "off" lately so it's not reasonable to leave my wife alone to deal with her right now. So (once again) I am officially not coming...but it's killing me. No matter what your expedition does or doesn't uncover, I'm going to start a thread planning a trip down the old El Tule trail for this fall (or whenever the whether gets reasonable again). Lost mission or not, I need to visit the arroyo this year.

Don't worry Beau, we will cover it from every angle possible... these Nomads are a great bunch... as you may have figured already after TW's pilot expedition to your site.

Everything happens in is proper place and time... I was resolved to sit it out... then the u2u today from a Nomad wanting to do this.

Many posts in this thread have focused on whether or not there was or is water in the area. Here is a quote from an article in "Inter-America":

"By the month of September of the same year, in consequence of a storm, a freshet of the rivulet of El Tule laid bare the very rich placers of this locality, and the neighbors of Santa Cruz hastened to take advantage of them until they were exhausted by the water. The auriferous sands of this valley lie beneath the sediment and the vegetable mold, at a slight depth, and scattered throughout it. There may be found many excavations that contain them, but the water hinders the extraction of them. Art and science have not yet reached there; they do not yet lend their mechanical assistance to draining, a thing that could be very easily accomplished."

This quote helps us in a couple of ways. First, the article describes El Tule as one of the chief mining districts. That supports what DK has said about there being a lot of mines in the general area, which doesn't help my case for ruins...but doesn't destroy it yet either

But what we also see is that not only is there water in the arroyo, but there is enough water that it consistently interferes with attempts at doing placer mining by removing the arroyo sediment...even to the point that the author suggests the need for "mechanical assistance to draining". I don't believe the author thought he was only dealing with a rainy season, it sounds to me like he is describing water consistently beneath much of the arroyo.

...unless, of course, the reference to "El Tule" means some different El Tule, which is possible. If someone knows, please chime in.

Here's the page from the publication and a Google Maps image showing the El Volcan / El Tule arroyo (incorrectly labeled "Zamora") compared to San Antonio, which is mentioned in the article.

Here's a few satellite images lined up together of the "arches" (not surprisingly, GE and GM use the same image):



And here's a thermal image of the area from 1984, which is interesting, but the resolution is 14-meters, which isn't nearly good enough to discern features like we want:





And last but not least, we'll call this one the siezurarch. It uses a simple quick-flipping technique to help the human eye see depth (much like bajalou suggested earlier):

Thank you... it is (afterall) one of the legends in YOUR book!




http://www.gregniemann.com/bajalegends.html

Well, we know there's water year-round at El Volcan just a few miles from the sites, and Tom and Bill reported water standing with vegetation growing around it in the arroyo at various locations as you hike toward the "arch" and "mission" sites. You mentioned a Jesuit reference to "Agua de Santa Isabel" if I remember right. Then there's Agua Dulce to the SouthWest which is prominently mentioned and well-known. It is nearer to the site than Santa Maria. Then there's the well-known spring 12 miles from the site towards the Sea of Cortez that is the known starting point for a mission story you posted (your photos of this spring are found at various parts of this thread). The enormous El Marmol onyx deposits show that water has been consistently near the site, even in the ancient past, and that onyx is still being formed at El Volcan.

Now, I'm not trying to say that El Volcan is some kind of WaterWorld...only that there are a significant number of descriptions of water in and around the arroyo. I think that the reason that the water is not better described in the literature is because of the high mineral content and very bad taste of it. Travelers sound like they tended to use the water near Santa Maria, Agua Dulce, and San Pablo on their way up the peninsula...which seems to make sense. The El Volcan arroyo is kind of out-of-the-way when it comes to the travel routes I've been reading about. It just isn't a compelling place to go for most people, but not necessarily because of a lack of water I think. ...so, you might just want to bring that gold pan you mentioned you might not find Jesuit treasure, but you don't need to leave empty-handed either.

The Aguage de Santa Isabel is on the 1757 Jesuit map... An aguaje or aguage is a place where ships could find water... and naming that one Santa Isabel (along with the low range of mountains in that area) is what sparked that area to be searched.



It is the third aguage down the coast of Baja from the Colorado delta:

1) 'Aguaje' at the bay named San Felipe de Jesus (San Felipe)
2) 'Aguage San Fermin' (Punta San Fermin is where Arroyo Matomi reaches the sea)
3) 'Aguge Santa Isabel' (note that lower case s is spelled with an f: Santa Ifabel)

Here is a clearer close up:



Here is a close up of the pirated (literally) English version:

AGUA DULCE 29º52.97', 114º49.38' (NAD27)

Here is Agua Dulce... on the Camino Real between Santa Maria and San Fernando:




Elizabeth at Agua Dulce... Turn north from Hwy. 1 between
Km. 160-161 (29º51.56', 114º50.35'). Go 1.4 mi. to old Baja main road, turn left for 0.3 mi. then right 0.3 more. Hike into gully.

Above the gully... only a palm shows the spring:






Here is a photo from Neal Johns showing Agua Dulce's water and palm:



[Edited on 4-21-2011 by David K]

Actually, I think I might have pinned this one down. This is a modern map, but look at how well it fits the text's description of "Real de Santa Cruz immediately South of San Antonio". Now, that doesn't mean that "El Tule" in his text is El Volcan, it could still be different, but the proximity of El Volcan to "the neighbors of Santa Cruz" is intriguing. The author mentions Santa Cruz mines then says the "rivulet of El Tule" exposed the placers, then says "the neighbors of Santa Cruz" took advantage of the opportunity "in this locality"...which really could be interpreted as meaning that the rivulet of El Tule was in the Santa Cruz locality, or that the neighbors went to the locality of El Tule...it's still a little ambiguous...but maybe worthy of you bringing your gold pan

The El Volcan area is the greenish area in the bottom-right corner of the Google Earth overlay image.





And here's what I think is the modern "Rancho Santa Cruz" close up:

EL MARMOL ON MAPS 1905 +

Originally called 'Onyx' and 'El Tule'...

1905


1911 (1905 expedition)


1919 (1905 expedition)


1919


1930


1941


1962


1974


1975


2003

Two errors on the Almanac/ Mexican topo maps: Arroyo el Volcan mis named Zamora and La Olvidada mis spelled with an extra i (Olividada).

2007


[Edited on 4-21-2011 by David K]

Here's the link of Corky's and TW's MC/walking trip down the arroyo several years ago (note from earlier posts in this thread that even though they walked past the "mission site", they say they did not leave the arroyo and venture up the hillsides:



Here's my best guess at the smooth black rocks they describe:



Here's the link to Corky's and Bill's trip up the arroyo from the gulf side:



...and from farther out:



In addition, I found a picture I love of someone drinking directly from the El Volcan geyser (no word on how he felt afterward):



And I found the following quote in the April 1958 issue of Desert Magazine regarding water availability at the El Marmol mines:



Does anybody know if El Marmol has a source of water?...or is this mineralized water they talk about probably actually coming from El Volcan?

Next, please take a look at this GE image. It's a VERY large feature...look at the measurements and at the level of detail of the surrounding terrain. Before you say that this is just a shadow effect, take a look at the drainage patterns of the two inlets and one outlet and look for the shadows of the surrounding terrain. This is not a shadow. This is a large, clearly-visible body of standing water up the hillside from an arroyo North of the El Volcan arroyo. I don't know if it's a permanent body of water:



...and a closeup:



Here's the
KML file for the water

and the KML file for the trips up and down the arroyo

Good mornig Beau,

You have done great with your research!

BillB has a Rokon 2WD motor bike.. it can almost climb up a wall... He had that when he and Corky1 (and Max) explored Arroyo el Volcan (Zamora) up from the gulf coast side. BillB thought about pulling the Rokon up the (dry) waterfall with a rope so he could continue to ride up the wash and see if he could get to the El Marmol road. I met BillB when he flew out from Texas to attend my Viva Baja #4 party... His goal then was to retrace Erle Stanley Gardner's expedition into Sal Si Puedes Canyon, north of L.A. Bay ('Hovering Over Baja')... Then it was to find shortcut across Baja (Hwy. 1 to the gulf).

That dark area you found north of Arroyo el Volcan is indeed a pool of water... I have seen it also on GE. See a similar 'tinaja' at Yubay... no spring, but a place where flash flood or rain water keeps for long periods of time... Tinajas were important sources of water to the Indians and other early Baja travelers.

The photo from the Baja Adventure Book of Victor Cook drinking water looks to be below or at the base of the geyser... since it looks flat.

Here is Elizabeth at the geyser vent on top of the onyx dome/ El Volcan:



There is no drinkable water at El Marmol... it was trucked in 10 miles from San Agustin. There was no road to El Volcan from El Marmol when the town was active, just a mule trail... so don't think they got water from there. Perhaps there was a well of water used for cleaning/ bathing purposes (as mentioned). In fact, near the airport for El Marmol there is/ was a windmill... so that may have been the town well mentioned (about 1-2 miles away)?

Again, great work and research!!!



[Edited on 4-22-2011 by David K]

In April, 2003 at El Volcan

Here is my daughter at the top of the geyser:



Here, I tell Sarah how fantastic it would be to get
a photo of an eruption! She isn't amused...

The geyser/ onyx dome:




Just a short distance past the geyser is a large pool of water. I climb up a boulder and take a photo looking north, down the arroyo:


The onyx dome is on the left, my truck is 0.2 mile beyond,
and the road from El Marmol is 0.4 mile from the dome.


Between the El Marmol road and El Volcan geyser, are pools of water:







[Edited on 4-22-2011 by David K]

TW, so you are not going to Santa Maria (before El Marmol) to help Ken get out of there?

YUP!

Quote:

Originally posted by David K Quote: Originally posted by TW No I have the great respect for those Jeeps and their ability to get out. But if they need me I'm ready with a tow strap. YUP!

Rofl. DK had that photo ready from the start for sure rofl. Total setup!!!

It is the current photo on TacomaWorld forums... (they change their header photo monthly)!

Seriously, I love Jeeps... I used to own one, a new one... and I learned that J-E-E-P stands for Just Empty Every Pocket!

So, while I love the name Jeep and the history of Willys-Overland creating the first civilian SUV... I can't own one because the quality mirrors other junk produced by American auto companies... at least each time I bought American, it was a disappointment (AMC-Jeep, Plymouth). Each time I bought Japanese, it was rewarding (Subaru 3 times, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Toyota 3 times).

Now, not all Jeeps are built poorly, some get lucky! Baja Angel had a '79 Jeep CJ-5 Silver Edition Renegade for 23 years and loved it. She had other CJs before, too. If I had unlimited income and a reliable (Toyota) backup, I would like to have a Rubicon or the new Jeep Gladiator (or whatever name they use) Truck coming soon... Because Jeeps are cool!

you guys are looking at the picture wrong, the Jeep is the top pulling the Toyo uphill, because the traction assits malfunction when the gas pedal got stuck..and send the Toyo down hill,somebody had to recover the poor thing.

NOT FUNNY....
SEE YOU GUYS ON FRIDAY....

Co-rider to Santa Isabel is....

The Baja Nomad who will be traveling south to El Volcan on the Lost Mission Search is 'El Vergel' (Vern), who I met a few years ago when Baja Rob took Baja Angel and I over to Vern's beach house.

Vern and his wife Mary ('roxyoso') attended Viva Baja Cactus in 2006:


Mary ('roxyoso'), Vern ('El Vergel') and Jay ('TacoFelix')

TW, bajalou, dtbushpilot, BajaCat, Ken Cooke, 'XRPhlang', David K, and El Vergel... are the Nomads on the search that I can think of right now (one of Ken's Jeep drivers joined Nomad, too... right?

Fun weekend in the desert away from civilization for two nights! Maybe a lost mission, too?

[Edited on 4-26-2011 by David K]

Satellite overview of April 30 search

El Volcan to target 'site b'



Showing La Olvidada



Possible campsites (arroyo bend or across from white slope)



Hike down arroyo (or drive?) north.



Almost there



Reverse view back south from the site.



The site west side of arroyo. GPS is 30º01.42', -114º46.29' (WGS84). Elevation is 1,701'.