BajaNomad - MEX water supply getting bad.

MEX water supply getting bad.

Santiago - 5-22-2024 at 06:45 AM

NYT article here.
Last year we visited MEX and stayed in the Coyoacan and did not experience any rationing. Interesting that the city is the largest market of bottled water in the world.

surabi - 5-23-2024 at 12:42 PM

This is happening all over Mexico and many other places in the world. The days of leaving the water running while you are brushing your teeth, flushing the toilet every time you have a little tinkle, and taking long luxurious showers are over.

Municipal wells started to get low in my town in early March. The pipa water trucks are doing a booming business.

JDCanuck - 5-23-2024 at 07:09 PM

Quote: Originally posted by surabi

This is happening all over Mexico and many other places in the world. The days of leaving the water running while you are brushing your teeth, flushing the toilet every time you have a little tinkle, and taking long luxurious showers are over.

Municipal wells started to get low in my town in early March. The pipa water trucks are doing a booming business.

There are solutions for individuals already available, and the costs continue to decline. Recycling used water as RFClark does if you plan carefully when you build, capturing all AC condensate and in addition the Atmospheric Water Generators that can be run on cheap CFE power or solar power at less than 350w per liter of drinkable water.

Here is one available in Mexico that I have not yet seen any reliable reviews of:
https://www.innovaqua.shop/products/nube

More advanced engineering is presently being exerted on very low power demand atmospheric generators which use moisture capture copied from nature. If you are on the pacific coast of Baja you are enjoying very high relative humidity, especially at night along with warmer temperatures which enhance the output of any atmospheric generation.

[Edited on 5-24-2024 by JDCanuck]

mtgoat666 - 5-23-2024 at 10:40 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck

Quote: Originally posted by surabi

>40% of people in DF live in poverty. They aint going to be capturing water from fog in their apartment or shack…
The water solutions for the upper class in their vacation and retirement homes are not practical for the urban masses and teeming poor.

JDCanuck - 5-24-2024 at 03:58 AM

That's why recycling of waste water becomes so important along with reducing demand. Continuing to buy bottled drinking water is a more expensive solution than water generators, not to mention the plastics pollution as a by product.

I see little sign the state and municipal water suppliers will ever get on top of this growing problem of over use and depleting aquifers, so its up to individuals as usual to solve it themselves.

Our air conditioners produced about 25 liters a day of condensate running in the lowest humidity periods daily. It pained me to see the discharges most commonly dumped unused into the ground when it could have been easily used for non-potable use in the home.

[Edited on 5-24-2024 by JDCanuck]

surabi - 5-24-2024 at 09:45 AM

I think you missed Goat's point. "It's up to individuals"- as pointed out, the individuals who have the means and knowledge to employ these solutions are not the majority of the population.

JDCanuck - 5-24-2024 at 10:24 AM

Do you see a lot of potable water freely supplied to the poorest people in your area from the local suppliers? Where i lived, they paid about 1.5 to 2 pesos per liter to have it delivered to them as they had no transportation to swap and refill their garafons.
Bulk non-potable water deliveries were somewhat cheaper, but unreliable due to shortages.
It just happened our family had free CFE power, so we installed an AC unit and plumbed it to supply free non-potable supply to a collection tank for household use. Instead of running wasteful fans that create additional heat, they now have cooler temps in summer and additional water as a byproduct.
This Christmas our intent is to supply an atmospheric water generator to provide them with a potable water generator. The search is on for the most practical one.

[Edited on 5-24-2024 by JDCanuck]

surabi - 5-24-2024 at 12:05 PM

I'm still not sure what you're talking about. No one receives garafon drinking water for free. The issue isn't potable water- people can always boil water to make it safe to drink. The issue is no water, for anything. And the majority of Mexicans can't afford to buy and install an AC unit, so using one to supply "free" non-potable water is a non-starter.

I'm not taking exception to your solutions- it's great that you are doing this, but you seem to be proposing it as a solution that all individuals could do, which isn't the case. Not sure how your family has free CFE electricity, but most people don't get free electricity, and even if one generates their own power with solar, the solar installation is expensive to start with.

JDCanuck - 5-24-2024 at 02:45 PM

My point is simply this: The government is not interested in solving the water shortage issue using the most inexpensive and non-polluting solutions available, rather they are interested in continuing explosive development as a source of income from taxes applied to foreigners who build more homes.
If we can acknowledge this, we as individuals are left to find the solutions we can afford, whether its cutting back on waste, capturing and using what little rainwater is available or finding the least expensive way of providing our own. Waiting for or expecting government to supply the solutions is a false hope.

surabi - 5-24-2024 at 04:10 PM

Unchecked development, complete with swimming pools, when municipalities can't provide enough water for average residents to shower and flush their toilets, is of course crazy and verges on criminal.. And I agree that we can't rely on govt. to solve these problems, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be continually pressured to do so.

FYI, it isn't just foreigners who are building more homes. I see just as many middle and upper class Mexicans building vacation and rental homes and hotels in my area as foreigners. These class and have and have not problems exist in Mexico regardless of the presence of foreigners.

RFClark - 5-25-2024 at 12:49 PM

Conagua as the controlling interest in not only water in Mexico but the sand and gravel used in construction bears responsibility for both overbuilding and underdevelopment of adequate water resources in Mexico. Conagua also controls the development of seawater RO processing which could supply much needed clean water in much of Mexico. It is a part of the problem, it should be a part of the solution.

Generally, Mexico has failed to invest as much in all sorts of infrastructure as is necessary. You can blame “the Tourists” but prior to tourism the Mexican population lived in general poverty! Open Wells, outhouses, no electricity, disease! Things only improved in much of Mexico after the tourists arrived.

JDCanuck - 5-25-2024 at 07:07 PM

No kidding, a huge amount of money flows into Baja from tourists or immigrants. The problem is, very little of that flows out to infrastucture needed to support it. A whole lot of wealthy Mexicans tho have become far more wealthy. So the answer? Supply your own infrastructure as was done in Pedegral in Cabo, build your own water generation plants and don't expect the governments to do it. This will and is generating resentment tho in the locals as they watch their cheap accessible natural resources pulled away from them. I would have to suggest lacking the basic necessity of water is the new growing poverty Baja is faced with.
Every few years a lot of political hot air is wasted on the needed solutions, but the water shortages due to depleting aquifers continue to grow. As Surabi says, the poorest people living on Ejidos can hardly afford to fix this one.

[Edited on 5-26-2024 by JDCanuck]

JDCanuck - 5-25-2024 at 07:49 PM

I was amazed in the short time I was there to see the explosive growth around Todos Santos. How many of those new developments are required to provide their own water supplies and or waste treatment? Once again, the increasing water crisis of the area aquifers is constantly discussed, but next to nothing is actually done. If California with all its wealth can't fix this one, how do we expect Baja to?

RFClark - 5-25-2024 at 10:41 PM

Todos Santos residents are currently fighting a new PUD to be imposed on them by La Paz that will allow a drastic increase in the population of Todos Santos. See the link below. Water is a major part of the disagreement regarding the new plan. See below.

No risk Assessments: Population growth was not based on current and accurate federally mandated assessments of water, electrical infrastructure, sewage, waste disposal and other services the new population will require.

No infrastructure investment: There is no tangible commitment to improving existing infrastructure to support their aggressive population growth and need for additional public safety, schools, health care facilities, paved roads, parks and public spaces.

Housing Type: La Paz PDU allows condos and Airbnb type development throughout the region, unlike the Todos Santos PDU, which restricted multi-family housing to urban areas.

Construction Coverage and Building Heights: The new plan significantly increases the allowable construction coverage, reducing natural areas between residences and allows additional levels of construction plus rooftop shade structures.

Smaller Lots and Higher Density: The plan significantly reduces the minimum lot sizes and increases the number of lots from 7,000 under the current PDU to 47,000 under the proposed PDU.

https://www.protecttodossantos.org/the-proposed-new-pdu

JDCanuck - 5-25-2024 at 11:24 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark

Todos Santos residents are currently fighting a new PUD to be imposed on them by La Paz that will allow a drastic increase in the population of Todos Santos. See the link below. Water is a major part of the disagreement regarding the new plan. See below.

No risk Assessments: Population growth was not based on current and accurate federally mandated assessments of water, electrical infrastructure, sewage, waste disposal and other services the new population will require.

No infrastructure investment: There is no tangible commitment to improving existing infrastructure to support their aggressive population growth and need for additional public safety, schools, health care facilities, paved roads, parks and public spaces.

Housing Type: La Paz PDU allows condos and Airbnb type development throughout the region, unlike the Todos Santos PDU, which restricted multi-family housing to urban areas.

Construction Coverage and Building Heights: The new plan significantly increases the allowable construction coverage, reducing natural areas between residences and allows additional levels of construction plus rooftop shade structures.

Smaller Lots and Higher Density: The plan significantly reduces the minimum lot sizes and increases the number of lots from 7,000 under the current PDU to 47,000 under the proposed PDU.

https://www.protecttodossantos.org/the-proposed-new-pdu

Yes i had been made aware of a lot of that through my news sources. I also noted massive changes ignoring supposed beach travel restrictions by vehicles in Los Barilles and also in La Ventana in just the 4 years since my earllier visits. Like i said earlier it is up to individuals like yourself to derive your own solutions. Seems to me you are already 2/3 there. Hope you can continue the good work you have accomplished til now.

JDCanuck - 5-25-2024 at 11:47 PM

This might be a pipe dream, but maybe not:
https://canadiangeographic.ca/articles/the-canadian-innovati...

SFandH - 5-26-2024 at 08:26 AM

From the news article:

"leaks have caused an estimated 35 percent water loss"

High-tech solutions are interesting, but the first step should be the very low-tech task of fixing the leaks. It may be all that is needed.

surfhat - 5-26-2024 at 10:04 AM

As unrealistic as it may appear, but I believe anyone building a home in the Baja we all cherish, should do what they can to be completely independent of electric and water suppliers.

That is the first time I have ever used 'the Baja' term, but somehow it is appropriate in this instance. haha

When I built on the East Cape over thirty years ago, I made sure I had my own electrical generation and water capture and storage with under the floor water tanks.

I knew where the water trucks got their water and wanted nothing to do with that source. My roof drained rain into two tanks for an 18,000 gallon capacity. They were built with concrete blocks and covered with the only two part epoxy sealer at the time that was approved for drinking water storage.

If we can find a way to rely upon our home designs to remain as independent as we can, it has to be the best avenue for anyone to show respect for Mother Nature.

Good on those who do, even if not completely independent of provided energy and water sources. At the time, that was the only choice since no municipal entities made their way out to where I was.

I cannot help but want to honor those who gave their all for all of us.

surfhat - 5-26-2024 at 10:07 AM

Underground water tanks, if it wasn't made clear.

surabi - 5-26-2024 at 11:41 AM

Leaks are definitely a big problem in Mexico. I see water running onto the street all the time from something as simple as a hose needing a rubber washer.

There is a property near me that has an illegal water connection. No one lives there, the municipality keeps disconnecting their line, then they just hook it back up again.
A couple weeks ago there was water spewing out of their long hose that had a score of leaks, "fixed" with P-nche pieces of electrical tape, and their water barrel was overflowing because the funky old float in it doesn't work. There was enough water running down the street to do me for a week. This has happened several times before.

There was no one at the property and I closed their valve, whichthey hid in the weeds, and sent photos to the water company. They must have done something, because it hasn't happened again since then.

I also talked to the guy whose family owns that land and leases it to the horse guys. He runs the local Prisa Paint store and I happened to be buying paint. He's a good guy and thanked me for telling him. He confirmed that they have an illegal connection, that his family cancelled the water contract for that property years ago and that he would read those horse guys the riot act.

RFClark - 5-27-2024 at 01:02 PM

The Mexico “problem” is not wasteful tourists or foreign nationals building or buying in Mexico. The problem is poor governance. The problem has always been poor governance. Look no further than the Vulcan materials case or the new PUD being forced on Todos Santos.

In fact tourists and expats living in Mexico are a part of the solution as they bring technical knowledge, revenue and expectations of better public services.

Carping about the lack of resources is not a solution. Investing in improving infrastructure is the solution. Municipal water delivery in Mexico is still out of the early 1900’s.

los Cabos as an example. There is no water shortage if you have money. A large fleet of water trucks deliver water 24/7. Someone profits from that delivery system.

La Paz has no container port worth discussing. What it has is a 1000Km two lane road down which comes most everything necessary to support over 600K people living in BCS. We see every truck headed to Los Cabos from our home. They run 24/7.

It’s obvious that the purpose of all the trucks delivering everything is employment and profit. That said it’s not great for the environment and it’s not very efficient. The capacity of the system is about maxed out. Even a short disruption creates shortages. That is why there finally is talk of a container port in La Paz. Thanks, primarily to pressure from the tourist industry.

surfhat - 5-27-2024 at 01:31 PM

You have done your part with your home design and good on you for attempting to limit your own footprint as much as possible.

Might does make right all too often. Money's influence is nothing new, especially in areas where profiting rules the day.

Water? What about the diminishing water resources? Even up here in drought land, builders will not be denied their profiteering irrespective of the water demand.

We received a fair amount of rain this year to replenish a small part of what has been lost, but we need a few more of these El Nino years in a row.

Happy Memorial Day to all Nomads.

surabi - 5-27-2024 at 01:56 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark

In fact tourists and expats living in Mexico are a part of the solution as they bring technical knowledge, revenue and expectations of better public services.

Wow, so foreigners are God's gift to Mexico because they are supposedly smarter, more knowledgeable and expect more? Sounds like a colonist mentality.

There are plenty of educated Mexicans working in technology fields and alternative energy. And plenty who expect better from their govts.

Where things break down is on the local level, where the powers that be, the "good ole boys" network resent and oppose anyone trying to change how they have always done things, which is usually rife with grift and corruption. It's a long-standing and deeply ingrained societal issue, not a lack of technology, vision, or skills.

The crook who ran the water and septic system in my town for 18 years had to be forced out through years-long legal action mounted by local Mexicans who were fed up with him spending the money on horses and other personal enrichment, rather than upgrading the system with new and better equipment instead of jerry-rigging everything. He even used to
neglect to pay the CFE bills, so the whole town wouldn't receive water for days or more.

But there was a certain contingent of locals who wanted him to remain, because they were personally profiting in some way.

[Edited on 5-27-2024 by surabi]

RFClark - 5-27-2024 at 04:33 PM

Yep, all the best hotels and restaurants have outhouses or a plastic bucket in a 55 gal drum next to the toilet. It’s those damned smart-ass foreigners demanding flush toilets, AC and all night electricity that ruin all that 3rd world charm! (Irony!)

surabi - 5-27-2024 at 07:25 PM

I was coming to Mexico 54 years ago, when there were few expat foreigners and many less tourists and never encountered a hotel or restaurant, including non-fancy ones, that didn't have flush toilets or running water.

AKgringo - 5-27-2024 at 07:52 PM

In 1999 I visited Bahia de Los Angles for the first time. I picked a motel that seemed like a good spot, but the city powerplant did not run all night, and they did not have a back-up generator.

The lady who was traveling with me was showering and had just lathered up the shampoo when the power went offline. The water pressure went to zero, so she finished up the shower with me pouring bottled water over her.

When we went out for dinner, we wound up eating at the next motel down the road which did have a generator. I still remember the icy stare while she analyzed my choice of motels!

RFClark - 5-27-2024 at 10:15 PM

Back in the early ‘60s the road between San Diego and TJ ran next to the “river”. The slope up both sides were covered with “homes” made from appliance cartons. I doubt that many had flush toilets and running water unless it was raining!

That area is rather more gentrified these days! Seńor Frog’s does have flush toilets!

Tourism is 8% of Mexico’s GDP and provides 4.5 million jobs.