BajaNomad

Electric Vehicles in Baja California

oxxo - 6-3-2024 at 04:06 PM

This is a thread ONLY about the current viability of 100% electric vehicles in Baja California. Any posts that are off topic will be reported.

It is about 1000 miles from the San Diego area border and the southern tip of Baja California. Given that challenging distance, here are my observations.

- I currently own a 100% electric vehicle (BEV). I have owned this vehicle for 5 1/2 years and have about 65K miles on it. I have never taken this car into anywhere in Mexico. Prior to this, I owned a Prius hybrid that had about 20 miles range on battery only. I drove that car once from the US border to Los Cabos (round trip) on 2 days each way, primarily using gasoline.

- My current BEV had 265 miles range when new, but currently the batteries have typically degraded to about 250 miles range.

- There is currently only 1 "supercharger" site (Tesla branded) consisting of 6 connections in Baja California at the Hotel Coral in Ensenada. Supercharger sites are level 3 chargers of typically rated at 75kW, 150kW, and 250kW. The one in Ensenada is rated at 150kW.

- I generally start to search for a nearby charging site when my car gets down to around 15% to 20%, so about 50 miles of range left in my batteries. Interestingly, some of the YouTube Warriors have run their cars down to 0% left but find that some can still drive them another 20-30 miles as a built in safety measure.

- In my BEV, I can charge from 20% to 100% in about 20 minutes at a 250kW Supercharger. But at the 150kW Supercharger in Ensenada, it would take me over 30 minutes to charge from 20% to 100%.

- There are dozens of "destination chargers" (non-Tesla branded) at various hotels up and down Hwy1 in Baja. These are all Level 2 chargers rated at about 13kW. It would take about 8 hours (overnight) to charge my car from 20% to 100%.

- I average about 50 mph when driving from Tecate to Los Cabos (30 mph through the villages and up to 70 mph, on terrible roads, out in the middle of the desert. I usually make this drive in 2 eleven hour days including food and rest stops.

- So, If I wanted to drive my BEV from California to Los Cabos, I could easily make it from San Diego to Ensenada for a 30 minute top up. However, the rest of my trip would have to made in 3 to 4 hour legs and then stop for 8 hours and overnight at a destination charger. That means it would take 4 to 5 days to make this trip in my BEV, This is not a bad scenario if you could drive around and explore the area, but that is not possible since my car would be tied to a destination charger for at least 8 hours!

- Most of the BEV's I see in Los Cabos are Mexican plated, purchased in either Guadalajara or Mexico City (Mexico mainland has several Tesla Superchargers along the major highways) and then shipped over to Los Cabos by the Mazatlan/La Paz ferry. I could enter Mexico via Nogales, AZ, and use this route but it would still involve a several day trip and an overnight on the ferry.

In conclusion, it is not realistic to for me to have a BEV in Los Cabos other than to ship it back and forth on a flatbed truck, which sort of defeats the purpose of the BEV. Someday, there will be about 6 Supercharger stops between Ensenada and Los Cabos.....and I think I will live to see it. Then I would have to worry about the bad guys pulling me over in the middle of the desert and stealing my car!

In response to other posts

- The 1st generation Nissan Leaf BEV was a "compliance car" and a very poor car at that. Fortunately the 3rd generation Leaf, available next year, is a great looking car with terrific specifications and should erase the sour taste of the 2 previous iterations.
- BEV cars are becoming LESS expensive rather than MORE expensive, US and Worldwide.
- All BEV's sold in the US are adopting the Tesla developed NACS (North American Charging Standard) for their charging connections. No adapters will be required and all BEV's will be able to to use the Tesla Supercharger system (although at a somewhat higher cost than Tesla branded BEV's. Me, I really don't care because I charge at night when required on my Level 2 system I installed in my garage. Usually it is about an hour per night, once or twice a week, when my electric rates are lowest. Easy Peasy, less than $25 of electricity in a month.
- Toyota and VW can forecast as much as they want, but they have not been good at implementing their forecasts. I'll believe it when I see it.
- Kia makes a relatively good product, but Hyundai is really building some premier models right now...not as good as a Tesla, but they're catching up!
- Hybrids are place holder models for those who have "range anxiety." After driving a GOOD BEV for a month, range anxiety usually disappears. I've had my car for over 5 years and I don't have any range anxiety anymore than I would have "running out of gas anxiety." Range is just another parameter to be managed (like gasoline) and you rarely give it a second thought. When my car gets low on range (and I can set what the low range is) it gives me an alert on the U.I. (User Interface) and gives me directions to reach the nearest Supercharger safely.
- A Nissan Leaf towing a gas generator in Baja? In my opinion, that sort of defeats the purpose of a BEV.
- "My friend's Hyundai Kona EV gets around 250 miles on a full charge, depending on driving conditions. Those who are under the impression that you can't drive long distances with an EV are misinformed. Depends on the vehicle, your driving style, highway vs. around town, etc."
It depends on the geography, ambient temperature (BEV's lose range in cold winter areas, NOT because of using the heater but batteries do not do as well in low ambient temperatures), the speed you drive ( my BEV's highway range is based on the local speed limit, usually 65 mph - drive faster and it's going to cost you, your choice), My BEV gets better range on the highway than stop and go city driving, AND tires and wheels (I have low rolling resistance tires with aero wheel covers, drive them fancy spokey wheels with them spaghetti tires and it will cost you in range!)
- Yes British Columbia and Washington State are a hotbed of BEV adoption.....right after California where Teslas have replaced Toyota as the most common automobile on the roads.

There is a lot of misunderstanding about BEV's, some of it justified, but BEV's are the logical choice for the immediate future (long after I'm gone) until some better form of mass, convenient transportation is developed.

JZ - 6-3-2024 at 05:04 PM

Today EV's are good for driving around town. If you want to go further, get gas or a hybrid.

larryC - 6-3-2024 at 05:40 PM

On my last trip through Catavina I met a guy and his wife from San Diego. They were staying at the Desert Inn and driving a Tesla and had been to Cabo and were on their way back to SD. He said that he has had no problems on the trip finding places to recharge, usually at the larger hotels, I didn't ask but now I'm curious what the hotels charge to recharge. Probably somewhere near what it would cost to fill your car with gasoline.

oxxo - 6-3-2024 at 05:48 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JZ  
Today EV's are good for driving around town. If you want to go further, get gas or a hybrid.


That is incorrect. I have over 65K miles on my car and have driven it all over the Western US. Some owners have over 200K on their BEV's and have driven them all over the US and Canada. You obviously don't own a BEV, otherwise you would NOT be making such an uninformed remark. Why are you even on this thread with no experience in the subject topic and nothing of value to add? But you are welcome to participate and continue to stay on topic, sort of, and prove to the world that you are ignorant on this subject.

oxxo - 6-3-2024 at 05:57 PM

Quote: Originally posted by larryC  
On my last trip through Catavina I met a guy and his wife from San Diego. They were staying at the Desert Inn and driving a Tesla and had been to Cabo and were on their way back to SD. He said that he has had no problems on the trip finding places to recharge, usually at the larger hotels, I didn't ask but now I'm curious what the hotels charge to recharge. Probably somewhere near what it would cost to fill your car with gasoline.


Yes, there is a destination charger at Desert Inn in Catavina. I don't know what the Desert Inn charges since I have never used it. But I do know the Terrasal Hotel in GN charged me nothing for charging all night the last time I used it. It was included in the price of the room....but my dog was a few pesos extra for the night. I think they might charge extra for a couple of hours charge IF you weren't staying for the night.

JDCanuck - 6-3-2024 at 06:39 PM

It seems to me down Baja driving a BEV for long trips with very few high wattage chargers would take a long time at present charging every 3 to 4 hours of driving. Why wouldn't a hybrid or gas vehicle be much quicker in that venue?
I would find the same situation up here at present. I did notice California is entirely a different story, especially if you have a Tesla. Even here, Tesla Superchargers are very available. Hopefully, either a whole lot more high wattage chargers or BEVs with far greater range between charges will change this, but for now....hybrids do seem the best alternative in Baja.



[Edited on 6-4-2024 by JDCanuck]

JDCanuck - 6-3-2024 at 07:35 PM

As mentioned elsewhere, BYD is selling EVs in Mexico. I am not sure where in Baja they can be purchased. Two models are of extra interest to me. For cities, the BYD Dolphin, which happens to be the cheapest BEV i have seen to date and has some V2L capability as a bonus. For longer trips, and especially the off road demands of Baja back roads, the newly announced Shark Hybrid PHEV also has V2L. This one seems to be pretty expensive compared to the gas only alternatives. I'd be especially interested in hearing how these vehicles test out in real life

JZ - 6-3-2024 at 08:54 PM

Quote: Originally posted by oxxo  
Quote: Originally posted by JZ  
Today EV's are good for driving around town. If you want to go further, get gas or a hybrid.


That is incorrect. I have over 65K miles on my car and have driven it all over the Western US. Some owners have over 200K on their BEV's and have driven them all over the US and Canada. You obviously don't own a BEV, otherwise you would NOT be making such an uninformed remark. Why are you even on this thread with no experience in the subject topic and nothing of value to add? But you are welcome to participate and continue to stay on topic, sort of, and prove to the world that you are ignorant on this subject.


My opinion is different from yours. You can type as many words as you like, but you won't force me to agree with you. Be better.

surabi - 6-3-2024 at 09:01 PM

Opinions are quite different from actual experience.

Tioloco - 6-3-2024 at 09:33 PM

Would like to hear from someone thats camped out in San Francisquito for a few days in their EV

surabi - 6-3-2024 at 09:41 PM

Quote: Originally posted by larryC  
I didn't ask but now I'm curious what the hotels charge to recharge. Probably somewhere near what it would cost to fill your car with gasoline.


I seriously doubt that. It doesn't cost anywhere near what it costs to fill your car with gas to charge an EV, not even close.
As oxxo said, his hotel let guests charge for free.

However, it is a new issue for hotels and Airbnbs to figure out what, if, and how much to charge guests to charge an EV. After all, no one would expect their hotel or Airbnb host to pay to fill their car with gas, and electricity isn't free.

What I do know is that Airbnb hosts are handling it different ways at the moment to figure out what is most viable. Some just raise their nightly price across the board by a few bucks to cover the occasional charging, some are asking for something like 5 or 6 bucks a charge, depending on electric rates in their area, some are using an honor system, asking guests with EVs to chip in what they feel is appropriate, and some with places on the high end might just include it for no extra cost.

What seems most fair would be to charge what public charging stations do.

Tioloco - 6-3-2024 at 09:59 PM

Quote: Originally posted by larryC  
On my last trip through Catavina I met a guy and his wife from San Diego. They were staying at the Desert Inn and driving a Tesla and had been to Cabo and were on their way back to SD. He said that he has had no problems on the trip finding places to recharge, usually at the larger hotels, I didn't ask but now I'm curious what the hotels charge to recharge. Probably somewhere near what it would cost to fill your car with gasoline.


With current gas prices being high, it appears charging is about 1/2 the cost of gasoline. However, a full charge at a supercharger is listed as taking 1 hour. Full tank of gasoline takes about 2 minutes. Some of it depends on what your time is worth and how you value the convenience. It is also really easy to carry extra fuel for extended trips with a gas powered vehicle. Not practical to carry spare batteries for an EV.

mtgoat666 - 6-3-2024 at 11:40 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco  
It is also really easy to carry extra fuel for extended trips with a gas powered vehicle. Not practical to carry spare batteries for an EV.


Less than 1% of vehicle buyers in USA and EU carry extra fuel to camp in the boondocks.
Detroit focus is on cars for the larger market, not the fringe percentage that boondocks..
There will always be a small market for remote workers and boondockers, but that small market share will not stop the overall shift of primary market to electric.
There will continue to be some market for ICE vehicles for remote workers and boondockers, but the bread and butter market for detroit is shifting electric.

Tioloco - 6-3-2024 at 11:58 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco  
It is also really easy to carry extra fuel for extended trips with a gas powered vehicle. Not practical to carry spare batteries for an EV.


Less than 1% of vehicle buyers in USA and EU carry extra fuel to camp in the boondocks.
Detroit focus is on cars for the larger market, not the fringe percentage that boondocks..
There will always be a small market for remote workers and boondockers, but that small market share will not stop the overall shift of primary market to electric.
There will continue to be some market for ICE vehicles for remote workers and boondockers, but the bread and butter market for detroit is shifting electric.



I think you are heavily underestimating the market for ICE outside of city centers. Construction and Farming are huge and the electric isnt there.

But for Baja, electric is waaaayyy off on the horizon.

RFClark - 6-4-2024 at 12:04 AM

Driving an EV to Cabo is possible if:

1) It has a 300 mile range
2) you carry a level 2 charger and AC adaptors
3) If your car has uncommon tire sizes. You carry a spare. (Tesla)
4) If you have a way to send texts through satellites.
5) Have a spirit of adventure!
6) Contact Baja Bound in advance to get Insurance for your EV.

Day 1 -Start from San Felipe with a full charge drive to Guerro Negro 250 Miles Overnight charge there - Tesla destination Charger

Day 2 Drive to Loreto 250 Miles Overnight charge there - Tesla destination charger

Day 3 Drive to La Paz under 250 miles Overnight Charge there - Free Tesla destination charger at Hotel One.

Day 4 Drive to Los Cabos Honk when you pass our place Level 2 charger 6KW - 40KW/day requires an adaptor to Tesla

Notes:
La Paz will probably have a level 3 Charger soon. I’m unsure that Los Cabos can support even a single 150KW level 3 charger any time soon so a home level 2 charger and w/o solar a really big CFE bill!

msteve1014 - 6-4-2024 at 05:09 AM

Right now driving an ev around baja on vacation seems like more trouble than it is worth. For a one way trip to your new home, or back and forth once a year, maybe. But you need to live in a big town with good power, or have a ton of your own solar.not good for most people yet.who will work on it when there is a problem? Have it towed to La Paz?

Speaking of facts vs opinions...

David K - 6-4-2024 at 06:26 AM

It hasn't been called 'Desert Inn' in many years... of all the Desert Inns, that replaced La Pinta (which replaced El Presidente for the Parador locations), only the San Ignacio one still was called Desert Inn when I went to them all in 2017.
The one in Cataviña is called 'Hotel Misión Cataviña'
The one south of San Quintín is the 'Hotel Misión Santa María'
The one near Guerrero Negro at the state border is called 'Half Way Inn'

As for the subject, Oxxo, can you share with us how long each of your "fill-ups" takes when compared to a gasoline or other liquid fuel vehicle?

Thank you for an interesting thread.

Ateo - 6-4-2024 at 06:47 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  

As for the subject, Oxxo, can you share with us how long each of your "fill-ups" takes when compared to a gasoline or other liquid fuel vehicle?

Thank you for an interesting thread.


I guess I’ll jump in and try to answer this question because I purchased an EV 6 months ago.

When I’m out and about for work and I am a little over 150 miles away from home, I will pull into a supercharger to “fill up”.

Last night when I did it, it took about 15 to 20 minutes. That was to get my battery back to about 80% which is enough for me to continue on my route and get back home.

If I was on empty it would’ve taken about 30 minutes.

Sometimes the onboard computer will show that I’m a couple miles short on range to get back home, where I usually charge, so I’ll pull in to top off and that takes about five minutes to get enough juice to get me back home.

When I get home, I just plug in and the thing automatically charges at midnight when the electricity rates are lowest. This vehicle has cut my fuel costs from close to $700 a month, down to $200 a month.

And I guess I should mention that I used to spend about 10 minutes a week at a gas station fueling up my vehicle. I would estimate that I still spend the same amount of time now….

So far my six month experience has been fantastic and there is no way I will ever buy another gas car again. Never….

Thank you for the interesting topic Oxxo.

[Edited on 6-4-2024 by Ateo]

Ateo - 6-4-2024 at 06:53 AM

When forecasting new installations on EV chargers in Baja, I guess it would be important to take into consideration a couple of factors that are needed.

I am by no way and expert on this. In fact, I know probably a little more than zero.

What I do know is that many of my gasoline station customers in Southern California are starting to install EV chargers at new sites that they are building.

Two of them recently opened and I am pleasantly surprised that the EV chargers are actually getting some use!!

These gas station owners are telling me that there’s a little bit of an infrastructure upgrade that needs to be done with the electricity that is coming into the station. So a “ground up” new gas station built seems like the best way and best time to put a charger in. You’re basically committing to having a gas station there for the next 30 years and you might as well include EV charging.

So my guess is that as some new gas stations get built down in Baja that an entrepreneur with maybe an extra $50,000 will decide to add an EV charger at his gas station and slowly start filling in some gaps in charging coverage.

RFClark - 6-4-2024 at 07:49 AM

Ateo,

The biggest issue with fast chargers (level 3) is the large intermittent loads they place on the electrical infrastructure. A 150KW charger is equal to 10+ electric clothes dryers running at the same time. Consider the last electric dryer you saw in BCS! An overnight charger draws from 4KW to 14KW (level 2). There are a few of these in BCS, mostly at Hotels.

The other issue is CFE’s rate structure penalizes large users with progressively higher rates to offer lower rates to its average residential user.

Based on our experience charging our PHEV it would require 36 - 540W solar panels and 2 - 10KW inverters to run a 14KW car charger. That’s about $15K US in parts. Such a system would allow 400 miles a day of driving (100KW). The return is about $.40/KW compared to $5/gal gas as the average EV gets 3.5 - 4 miles/KW. Our gas milage w/o electricity is about 50 MPG.

Tioloco - 6-4-2024 at 08:10 AM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark  


Based on our experience charging our PHEV it would require 36 - 540W solar panels and 2 - 10KW inverters to run a 14KW car charger. That’s about $15K US in parts. Such a system would allow 400 miles a day of driving (100KW). The return is about $.40/KW compared to $5/gal gas as the average EV gets 3.5 - 4 miles/KW. Our gas milage w/o electricity is about 50 MPG.



That is assuming charging during the day so you can drive at night. (Cant charge with solar at night) Is that correct?

[Edited on 6-4-2024 by Tioloco]

surabi - 6-4-2024 at 09:39 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco  


With current gas prices being high, it appears charging is about 1/2 the cost of gasoline.


No, not even close. My friend in Canada, where electricity is expensive, with the Hyundai Kona, says it costs about $6CAN to charge her vehicle overnight.
It would cost at least $40 to fill her car with gas to drive the same distance she can on that charge.

The charging costs for EVs is a fraction of what you'd pay for gas.

Tioloco - 6-4-2024 at 09:59 AM

Quote: Originally posted by surabi  
Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco  


With current gas prices being high, it appears charging is about 1/2 the cost of gasoline.


No, not even close. My friend in Canada, where electricity is expensive, with the Hyundai Kona, says it costs about $6CAN to charge her vehicle overnight.
It would cost at least $40 to fill her car with gas to drive the same distance she can on that charge.

The charging costs for EVs is a fraction of what you'd pay for gas.


Any knowledge of what it cost to fill up at a Supercharger?
More of an applicable comparison for the active person that travels.

Lee - 6-4-2024 at 10:05 AM

EV drivers confident they can get their EV fixed in Baja? GN, Ciudad?

surabi - 6-4-2024 at 10:32 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco  


Any knowledge of what it cost to fill up at a Supercharger?
More of an applicable comparison for the active person that travels.


Costs about a third of gas cost to charge at a public charging station.

An "active person who travels" would only have to charge at a public station once during a day of travel, assuming they are driving approx. 8 hrs a day, and of course depending on all the factors that enter into EV mileage.
Then they would plug in to a home charger o'night wherever they spent the night.

Another thing no one has mentioned is that EVs are silent. So not only is air pollution reduced with EVs, so is noise pollution.

[Edited on 6-4-2024 by surabi]

JDCanuck - 6-4-2024 at 10:44 AM

Costs really are variable depending on where you charge. In our location, the faster chargers are time based and can put out over 100kw, but our car only accepts 50kw maximum. This means we pay at twice the rate(or more) a higher acceptance rate vehicle would pay. We estimated it was right around .60 per kwh last time we needed one. A Tesla or Ford F-150 would be paying .30 per kwh. Our rates at home are about .15 per kwh with all the taxes and high use surcharges factored in.
At 3.5 miles per kwh our costs vary widely depending on where we charge up. Obviously, home charging is the cheapest and we pay a pretty high penalty to drive longer distances and charge at the fast DC chargers.


[Edited on 6-4-2024 by JDCanuck]

Ateo - 6-4-2024 at 11:06 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco  
Quote: Originally posted by surabi  
Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco  


With current gas prices being high, it appears charging is about 1/2 the cost of gasoline.


No, not even close. My friend in Canada, where electricity is expensive, with the Hyundai Kona, says it costs about $6CAN to charge her vehicle overnight.
It would cost at least $40 to fill her car with gas to drive the same distance she can on that charge.

The charging costs for EVs is a fraction of what you'd pay for gas.


Any knowledge of what it cost to fill up at a Supercharger?
More of an applicable comparison for the active person that travels.


Supercharger cost me $11 yesterday. But only added about 30% of my battery capacity. Usually it’s about $20.

If u r on empty it’ll be $25 maybe. It would be $60 or $70 for comparable gas fill.

But of course, if you can charge at home, like Clark says above it’s more like about .15 per kilowatt hour which is basically super cheap. This is USA pricing I’m talking about.

[Edited on 6-4-2024 by Ateo]

Tioloco - 6-4-2024 at 11:16 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Ateo  
Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco  
Quote: Originally posted by surabi  
Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco  


With current gas prices being high, it appears charging is about 1/2 the cost of gasoline.


No, not even close. My friend in Canada, where electricity is expensive, with the Hyundai Kona, says it costs about $6CAN to charge her vehicle overnight.
It would cost at least $40 to fill her car with gas to drive the same distance she can on that charge.

The charging costs for EVs is a fraction of what you'd pay for gas.


Any knowledge of what it cost to fill up at a Supercharger?
More of an applicable comparison for the active person that travels.


Supercharger cost me $11 yesterday. But only added about 30% of my battery capacity. Usually it’s about $20.

If u r on empty it’ll be $25 maybe. It would be $60 or $70 for comparable gas fill.

But of course, if you can charge at home, like Clark says above it’s more like about .15 per kilowatt hour which is basically super cheap. This is USA pricing I’m talking about.


[Edited on 6-4-2024 by Ateo]


That comes out to about $36 for a full charge....

surabi - 6-4-2024 at 11:17 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck  
Costs really are variable depending on where you charge. In our location, the faster chargers are time based and can put out over 100kw, but our car only accepts 50kw maximum.


I just read that in British Columbia, B.C. Hydro is switching to kwh rather than time-based charging on its public chargers, for exactly that reason- people were complaining about the unfairness of time-based fees.

https://vancouversun.com/news/bc-hydro-to-switch-to-energy-b...

David K - 6-4-2024 at 11:36 AM

Being this is a Baja forum, can we get more feedback on an EV on the peninsula's backcountry, ie. not the border cities, Ensenada, or Los Cabos.
Freedom to go and explore and enjoy seems hugely limited. Plus, stopping for 30 minutes to "fill up" the battery (or 80% full as it were) seems restrictive to one's traveling.
What if you arrive a charging station and it is in use... So, if there is nobody else in line ahead of you, you are there for up to an hour.
For the Baja Nomad traveler, is there any positive attraction to an EV? How many will need a gasoline-powered generator (as a 'spare can') to travel the back country?
I see it as great for daily commuting that is under 250 miles or whatever the 80% range is. Otherwise, a hybrid 4x4 makes a lot more sense. I have driven a Prius, and as a hybrid, it got over 50 mpg and was peppy on the freeway.

mtgoat666 - 6-4-2024 at 11:55 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Lee  
EV drivers confident they can get their EV fixed in Baja? GN, Ciudad?


What me worry?

I used to drive my saab in baja, and i was pretty sure there was no saab parts or mechanics in baja.

Life is full of risks, dont let risk scare you!

surabi - 6-4-2024 at 11:55 AM

You seem to be suggesting that people on vacation in Baja travelling and exploring are in some kind of big rush, and would find it hugely inconvenient to spend 30 min.-an hour waiting for their vehicle to charge.

Most decisions in life have their pros and cons. And most people who have chosen to drive an EV consider wait time to charge to be no big deal compared to the advantages of an EV. It's not like you have to just sit there twiddling your thumbs staring out the window while your vehicle is charging. You can eat lunch, read a book, listen to a podcast, converse with your travel mates, have a nap, take care of paperwork or other business, etc. etc.

JDCanuck - 6-4-2024 at 11:56 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Being this is a Baja forum, can we get more feedback on an EV on the peninsula's backcountry, ie. not the border cities, Ensenada, or Los Cabos.
Freedom to go and explore and enjoy seems hugely limited. Plus, stopping for 30 minutes to "fill up" the battery (or 80% full as it were) seems restrictive to one's traveling.
What if you arrive a charging station and it is in use... So, if there is nobody else in line ahead of you, you are there for up to an hour.
For the Baja Nomad traveler, is there any positive attraction to an EV? How many will need a gasoline-powered generator (as a 'spare can') to travel the back country?
I see it as great for daily commuting that is under 250 miles or whatever the 80% range is. Otherwise, a hybrid 4x4 makes a lot more sense. I have driven a Prius, and as a hybrid, it got over 50 mpg and was peppy on the freeway.


This is the big question. I would hate to see someone commit to a BEV in lower Baja for highway travel given all the limitations at present. Hybrids on the other hand are likely very usable, especially plug-in hybrids like RFClark has been using for years now and can verify is practical.

Ateo - 6-4-2024 at 12:25 PM

If I was driving to Cabo I would drive my Toyota Tundra, not my EV at this point.

This is old news, but infrastructure for EV’s isn’t as good as NOB yet.

It will be someday.

[Edited on 6-4-2024 by Ateo]

mtgoat666 - 6-4-2024 at 12:41 PM

What did the early adopters of motor cars do? Did they complain about lack of infrastructure and easy fuel stations, and stick with horse and buggy?

Early EV adopters will chart the way for EV naysayers and worry warts.

AKgringo - 6-4-2024 at 12:50 PM

There are a lot of roadside businesses that I usually drive by that would be attractive places to stop for a re-charge.

surabi - 6-4-2024 at 12:59 PM

The whole EV charging station thing being relatively new, I would anticipate many business owners soon becoming aware that providing an EV charger would be a boon for their business. If there are 3 restaurants to choose from on the side of the highway, EV owners are going to choose the one where they can leave their vehicle charging while they have something to eat.

An area where there are several different type businesses within a few steps of each other could even go in on the costs of putting in a charging station.

PaulW - 6-4-2024 at 01:43 PM

In Baja the numbers of EVs is so minimal that business owners just ignore chargers as it a waste of money.
The exception would be a hotel with a lot of folks staying there.

oxxo - 6-4-2024 at 02:17 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
What did the early adopters of motor cars do? Did they complain about lack of infrastructure and easy fuel stations, and stick with horse and buggy?

Early EV adopters will chart the way for EV naysayers and worry warts.


EXACTLY!

Busy right now but can answer most questions in detail later.

Briefly:
- the cost per kWh at a Tesla Supercharger will vary depending on the rate of the local provider providing the electricity to that specific site. Tesla is working around the variable rate issue by installing solar panels over the Superchargers and charging directly from the sun and billing at a lower rate than local electric monopolies. Supercharging at Night? Sure, the excess power from Supercharger solar power is stored in massive on-site batteries and used during night or cloudy days.
- It costs me about 25% at a Supercharger compared to what it would cost to drive an ICE car the same distance on gasoline. 95% of the time I charge on my Level 2 system at night in my garage where my cost per kWh is 10 to 12 cents on my TOU (Time Of Use) rates. This is about 15 to 20% of the cost per mile than an ICE car. (And we haven't started to talk about the cost and time for all those services (oil changes, etc.) required for ICE vehicles!!! My BEV is service free...well I do need to add some windshield wiper fluid right now....first time in all the miles I've driven.
- To get to the basic question...BEV infrastructure is NOT available in Baja California for those who use their vehicle PRIMARILY for off-roading! BUT, BUT, BUT it is just around the corner, within 5 years. Some expensive BEV sedans are right now available with 600 miles range! The new Tesla CyberTruk pickup is available in an expensive version with 375 mile range, annnnnd it has adjustable height suspension from the 5 pas. interior with a 4 foot wide, clear, pickup bed to hold sheets of plywood, and a camper accessory for the bed is available. Ford and Chev and Rivian are putting a lot of money into their BEV pickup lines. Toyota, Honda, and Nissan are sitting on the sidelines right now as they slowly work their way to bankruptcy by not recognizing the significance of climate change (but I'm getting off topic)

More later, specifically about BEV's in Baja.

pacificobob - 6-4-2024 at 02:18 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Lee  
EV drivers confident they can get their EV fixed in Baja? GN, Ciudad?


Terrasal hotel in GN has chargers

pacificobob - 6-4-2024 at 02:22 PM

EV drive train has 20 moving parts vs 200 for IC

oxxo - 6-4-2024 at 02:55 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Lee  
EV drivers confident they can get their EV fixed in Baja? GN, Ciudad?


What's to fix? In my case which is typical, nothing of significance has needed to be "fixed" in 65+K miles. Tesla now has a better customer satisfaction and quality rating than Toyota (who used to be #1) according to the people who rate those things. There will be Tesla factory trained technicians available in the major population centers in Baja California within 5 years or less. Tesla is even negotiating with the Mexican Govt. to build a factory in Mexico. I am confident the new President of Mexico, and her political agenda, will make it happen. The movement to BEV's is going to be huge worldwide and in Baja California, just be patient for a little longer.

SFandH - 6-4-2024 at 02:58 PM

Suppose you drive your small SUV EV 250 miles down Baja and then stop to fill up with electrons at your hotel's charger. I know there are variables involved, but on average, how long will you be plugged into the charger juicing up?




surabi - 6-4-2024 at 04:03 PM

Quote: Originally posted by PaulW  
In Baja the numbers of EVs is so minimal that business owners just ignore chargers as it a waste of money.
The exception would be a hotel with a lot of folks staying there.


Now. As EVs become the wave of the future that will certainly change. And you are looking at within a few years, not decades.

SFandH - 6-4-2024 at 04:20 PM

Quote: Originally posted by surabi  
Quote: Originally posted by PaulW  
In Baja the numbers of EVs is so minimal that business owners just ignore chargers as it a waste of money.
The exception would be a hotel with a lot of folks staying there.


Now. As EVs become the wave of the future that will certainly change. And you are looking at within a few years, not decades.


Staying with the Baja theme........

I wonder if the Baja electrical grid is up to the task. I remember talk of a decision not to build any more generating plants on the peninsula and instead tie into the mainland via an underwater cable.

oxxo - 6-4-2024 at 06:27 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  

I wonder if the Baja electrical grid is up to the task. I remember talk of a decision not to build any more generating plants on the peninsula and instead tie into the mainland via an underwater cable.


I recently saw a very large solar farm off Hwy 1 just north of La Paz. It was so large I presume it was a project by BCS Govt. I presume we will see many more of these solar farms throughout Mexico as a result of the new President's political agenda. This is good news for Baja California as more supporting infrastructure for BEV's is installed.

JDCanuck - 6-4-2024 at 06:34 PM

Try checking out one of the charger apps before planning to charge at a destination. Multiple reports showing chargers were not working in La Paz at the shopping plaza when people drove there expecting to charge. The best exception in La Paz? If you are staying there overnite, Hotel One has always reported as working. 2- 18KW Tesla chargers and also the one J1772

oxxo - 6-4-2024 at 06:48 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  
Suppose you drive your small SUV EV 250 miles down Baja and then stop to fill up with electrons at your hotel's charger. I know there are variables involved, but on average, how long will you be plugged into the charger juicing up?


It depends on the state of charge of your BEV. The destination chargers at the dozens of hotels in Baja California are Level 2 chargers and it can take up to 8 hours (overnight) at this type of charger. The one exception is the Tesla branded Supercharger which are Level 3 (much faster). The only Lever 3 Supercharger in all of Baja California is Hotel Coral just north of the tourist area in Ensenada. There are 6 connections there. It will take about 30 minutes to fill up at that one location, depending on your state of charge.

Tesla builds their Supercharger locations close to well lighted locations close to shopping, eating, and accommodations within a couple of blocks. The commercial establishments give the land to Tesla on long term leases. So Tesla only has the cost of site preparations and equipment (which is recyclable). These locations become cash cows to the local merchants who have a steady, captive audience as customers.

It is only a matter of short time before Baja merchants realize the financial benefits to them and we will see additional Level 3 Superchargers popping up along Hwy 1.

oxxo - 6-4-2024 at 06:58 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck  
Try checking out one of the charger apps before planning to charge at a destination. Multiple reports showing chargers were not working in La Paz at the shopping plaza when people drove there expecting to charge.


Just to be clear, Level 2 chargers are NOT Tesla branded chargers. Tesla does not maintain, repair, or service these chargers. They are serviced by the hotels that own them privately.

Tesla Level 3 Superchargers are serviced by Tesla. It is rare when you find one that isn't working. When not working they are repaired within a day or two. And the chargers are NOT connected in series. When one is out, the others continue to work.

Tioloco - 6-4-2024 at 07:47 PM

Quote: Originally posted by oxxo  
Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  

I wonder if the Baja electrical grid is up to the task. I remember talk of a decision not to build any more generating plants on the peninsula and instead tie into the mainland via an underwater cable.


I recently saw a very large solar farm off Hwy 1 just north of La Paz. It was so large I presume it was a project by BCS Govt. I presume we will see many more of these solar farms throughout Mexico as a result of the new President's political agenda. This is good news for Baja California as more supporting infrastructure for BEV's is installed.


Agreed! Mow down more virgin desert to provide electrical charge for cars with batteries mined in Africa by children!
And keep the gas stations running as before so the reliable transportation network can continue. Win win for everyone, right!?

surabi - 6-4-2024 at 08:30 PM

Virgin desert? You mean the desert off-roaders have so much reverence for they consider it their personal playground and tear through it on their fossil-fueled vehicles, disturbing all the creatures that live there and spewing exhaust all over everything? That virgin desert?

[Edited on 6-5-2024 by surabi]

oxxo - 6-4-2024 at 10:21 PM

Quote: Originally posted by surabi  
Virgin desert? You mean the desert off-roaders have so much reverence for they consider it their personal playground and tear through it on their fossil-fueled vehicles, disturbing all the creatures that live there and spewing exhaust all over everything? That virgin desert?



:thumbup: :spingrin:

Tioloco - 6-5-2024 at 07:03 AM

oxxo, what is that more "dense" alternative to cobalt you speak of? I looked and couldn't find what you were talking about.

Flatfish - 6-5-2024 at 10:24 AM

Personally, I just don’t see the “future” of EV vehicles. Power grids cannot keep up with current demand and brown outs are fairly common. There would have to be a massive turn around to install enough working charging stations if the proposed demand does indeed come into play and the capitol investment would be massive. I’m all for alternative energy, but mainstay everyday EV cars for the masses has a lot of issues. Yes, recycling exists but with solar panels wearing out, wind farms maintenance, and EV batteries on the rise there is not enough inventive to do anything about the “end” product if you will. I won’t even get into the money and diesel gas that it takes to mine the special minerals needed for these “economic” vehicles…..

surabi - 6-5-2024 at 10:27 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Flatfish  
Yes, recycling exists but with solar panels wearing out, wind farms maintenance..


Are you under the impression that traditional electrical grids don't have equipment that wears out and requires maintenance?
Are you under the impression that their aren't people working on solutions to the issues you mention?

All new technologies required new ways of dealing with things and new infrastructure, which humans found ways to address.
If not, we'd all still be using horse and buggy because no one could envision building roads and highways and gas stations.

[Edited on 6-5-2024 by surabi]

mtgoat666 - 6-5-2024 at 11:30 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Flatfish  
Personally, I just don’t see the “future” of EV vehicles.


I think you must be blind!

JDCanuck - 6-5-2024 at 11:37 AM

The problem at present in Baja is the grid electricity demand is growing well beyond the ability to install renewable supplies. Consequently, since 2022 power suppliers have been increasingly using petroleum (mainly diesel) generators to meet peak demands and renewable supplies continue to fall as a percentage of total power.

https://www.dnv.com/article/the-baja-california-peninsula-en...

However, this far more efficient solution is now being built to offset the need for portable diesel plants, using modern high efficiency combined cycle natural gas generation.

https://constructionreviewonline.com/construction-projects/c...

[Edited on 6-5-2024 by JDCanuck]

JDCanuck - 6-5-2024 at 03:02 PM

Quote: Originally posted by oxxo  
Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  

I wonder if the Baja electrical grid is up to the task. I remember talk of a decision not to build any more generating plants on the peninsula and instead tie into the mainland via an underwater cable.


I recently saw a very large solar farm off Hwy 1 just north of La Paz. It was so large I presume it was a project by BCS Govt. I presume we will see many more of these solar farms throughout Mexico as a result of the new President's political agenda. This is good news for Baja California as more supporting infrastructure for BEV's is installed.


I would guess this is the Aura Solar Farm which was built long ago and supplies about 32 mw power to the grid since before 2020. It was to be stage 1 of about 60mw but since then no more has been built and the trend has been back to Petroleum sourced power for the grid, notably the most recent combined cycle natural gas plant out by Pichilingue

SFandH - 6-5-2024 at 03:06 PM

I watched an in-depth video about recycled EV batteries, which I can't find now. It included an interview with a guy who once worked for Tesla and is now starting a battery recycling business.

His biggest problem is it currently costs more to build batteries from recycled materials than it does to build them from materials that come out of the ground. Extracting the elements from used battery packs is a complicated, energy-intensive, expensive, and nasty chemical process.

I dunno. I'm 50/50 on EVs. And I think that's the future. Both new EVs and new ICE automobiles will be available. Buy what you want.


[Edited on 6-5-2024 by SFandH]

Flatfish - 6-5-2024 at 05:02 PM

Lots of interesting discussion on here. Enjoying the thread. Too bad some folks come to name calling though…..

surabi - 6-5-2024 at 06:37 PM

Haven't seen any name calling. Pointing out the fallacy of others' notions isn't name calling.

JDCanuck - 6-5-2024 at 07:06 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  
Suppose you drive your small SUV EV 250 miles down Baja and then stop to fill up with electrons at your hotel's charger. I know there are variables involved, but on average, how long will you be plugged into the charger juicing up?






Heres a simple calculation method to arrive at an answer at various rated chargers. A typical EV gets 3.5 miles/kwh in hiway driving(118 MPGe). If you drive 250 miles you will need to recharge with about 72 kwh of power. With a J1772 level 2 charger that is NOT shared it will take 12 hours to recharge at 6 kw, twice that if its shared and the wattage is cut in half as a result. With 12 amp level 1 charging at 120v it would take 50 hours. With an 18kw NACS (Tesla) charger commonly in La Paz it will take 4 hours. A CHAdeMO DC charger (Nissan Leafs) at 50kw would take 1 1/2 hours if you can find one. Hope this helps somewhat. It should be noted that Tesla superchargers now have wattages all the way up to 250 kw in the US, but I haven't seen any similar ones in Baja.
So, assuming you are charging at Tesla 18kw chargers most commonly listed in southern Baja at present, you would charge for 4 hours for each 4 hours driven at 60 mph avg speed (240miles). If you could only find level 2 chargers, you would charge for 12 hours for each 4 hours driven.





[Edited on 6-6-2024 by JDCanuck]

JohnJohn - 6-6-2024 at 12:51 PM

Good on you, trying to correct the lies and ignorance (understandable) being spread on BEV's. Cross-country USA trips have been common over a decade now. A Tesla can make over 300 mi before needing a charge, that would be a fair sized town anyplace on earth. Reason I said understandable is, no one has had to think about these things.
Quote: Originally posted by oxxo  
Quote: Originally posted by JZ  
Today EV's are good for driving around town. If you want to go further, get gas or a hybrid.


That is incorrect. I have over 65K miles on my car and have driven it all over the Western US. Some owners have over 200K on their BEV's and have driven them all over the US and Canada. You obviously don't own a BEV, otherwise you would NOT be making such an uninformed remark. Why are you even on this thread with no experience in the subject topic and nothing of value to add? But you are welcome to participate and continue to stay on topic, sort of, and prove to the world that you are ignorant on this subject.

JohnJohn - 6-6-2024 at 12:53 PM

Hope you get to see the new Caterpillar heavy duty construction equipment, being operated on batteries.
Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco  
Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco  
It is also really easy to carry extra fuel for extended trips with a gas powered vehicle. Not practical to carry spare batteries for an EV.


Less than 1% of vehicle buyers in USA and EU carry extra fuel to camp in the boondocks.
Detroit focus is on cars for the larger market, not the fringe percentage that boondocks..
There will always be a small market for remote workers and boondockers, but that small market share will not stop the overall shift of primary market to electric.
There will continue to be some market for ICE vehicles for remote workers and boondockers, but the bread and butter market for detroit is shifting electric.



I think you are heavily underestimating the market for ICE outside of city centers. Construction and Farming are huge and the electric isnt there.

But for Baja, electric is waaaayyy off on the horizon.

Tioloco - 6-6-2024 at 12:57 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JohnJohn  
Hope you get to see the new Caterpillar heavy duty construction equipment, being operated on batteries.


Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco  
Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco  
It is also really easy to carry extra fuel for extended trips with a gas powered vehicle. Not practical to carry spare batteries for an EV.


Less than 1% of vehicle buyers in USA and EU carry extra fuel to camp in the boondocks.
Detroit focus is on cars for the larger market, not the fringe percentage that boondocks..
There will always be a small market for remote workers and boondockers, but that small market share will not stop the overall shift of primary market to electric.
There will continue to be some market for ICE vehicles for remote workers and boondockers, but the bread and butter market for detroit is shifting electric.



I think you are heavily underestimating the market for ICE outside of city centers. Construction and Farming are huge and the electric isnt there.

But for Baja, electric is waaaayyy off on the horizon.


Seen it. There is a reason diesel is still king. Time is money.

JohnJohn - 6-6-2024 at 01:31 PM

which propulsion unit would make you nervouser about maint? Sorry, I don't have an image of the Tundra engine which had 100K units recalled, but I'm sure any Baja mech could deal with one.
Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by Lee  
EV drivers confident they can get their EV fixed in Baja? GN, Ciudad?


What me worry?

I used to drive my saab in baja, and i was pretty sure there was no saab parts or mechanics in baja.

Life is full of risks, dont let risk scare you!


MotorStuff.jpg - 82kB

oxxo - 6-6-2024 at 02:15 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JohnJohn  
which propulsion unit would make you nervouser about maint? Sorry, I don't have an image of the Tundra engine which had 100K units recalled, but I'm sure any Baja mech could deal with one.


:thumbup: :bounce:

pacificobob - 6-6-2024 at 05:13 PM

The engine photo speaks volumes .

JDCanuck - 6-6-2024 at 05:48 PM

I have never seen a definitive cost to charge 10kwh at a Tesla Supercharger in the US under the new shared agreement for other vehicles. This would provide about 35 miles range. In Aussieland it appears to be 6.00 per 10kwh if you were charging other than a Tesla at their chargers, the same as we now pay here at the 100kw chargers. Is it similar in the US , lower cost or higher?

[Edited on 6-7-2024 by JDCanuck]

oxxo - 6-6-2024 at 06:31 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck  
I have never seen a definitive cost to charge 10kwh at a Tesla Supercharger in the US under the new shared agreement for other vehicles. This would provide about 35 miles range. In Aussieland it appears to be 6.00 per 10kwh if you were charging other than a Tesla at their chargers, the same as we now pay here at the 100kw chargers. Is it similar in the US , lower cost or higher?


I already answered your question previously on this thread!

Here, in the USA, it will vary depending on:

1. your "state of charge" (the amount of electrons left in your batteries - the cost is lower if you have a low state of charge, the cost will be higher if you have a high state of charge.
2. It will depend on the cost charged by the local electric utility for providing that electricity. I have no idea what electric rates are in Canada, although my Canadian friends tell me it is much lower than in the USA.

Tesla is trying to get around this variable cost confusion by installing solar panels to power their Supercharger system.

In my personal case, it costs me under USD $12 to charge my car from 30% to 80% at a Tesla Supercharger in Southern California (which I rarely use because I charge at home at night at a much lower cost per kWh. At night, under a TOU plan, I pay under 12 cents per kWh....which is relatively high compared to some other States.)

If you want to keep up with this thread, I recommend you read ALL the previous posts.

JDCanuck - 6-6-2024 at 06:53 PM

Yes, i read the other posts. I was asking what Tesla chargers charge other vehicle manufacturers to use Tesla Superchargers to charge say...a Mitsubishi under the new shared agreement. All I could find was an Australian post stating they charged non Tesla owners at twice the rate for a Tesla vehicle, or .60 AUD per kwh.

Yes, at home I pay USD .12 per kwh same as your lower overnite rate, this jumps to .45 USD per kwh at 100kw chargers on the road, or almost 4 times the cost for longer trips per mile travelled. This approximates the cost Tesla shows at their superchargers on their website. At this rate it would cost about 4.50 USD to travel 35 miles. If I charge at home from my 50 Amp 240 v wall plug, that cost drops to 1.20 USD for each 35 miles

So...50% of your Tesla storage costs 12.00 USD to charge. Can I guess that that is about 40Kwh power? So the cost per 10kwh (35 miles) would be 3.00 USD and this is at a standard TESLA rate, and not the higher rate charged to owners of other makes charging at a Tesla shared charger?

I apologize for thinking Tesla charged a standard rate for Tesla owners and it seems this is not the case, as they use a very complicated time/power algorithm and charge even higher penalty fees past 80% charge so non Tesla owners will also have a very hard time pre-determining their costs to drive longer distances.




[Edited on 6-7-2024 by JDCanuck]

surabi - 6-6-2024 at 09:00 PM

Quote: Originally posted by oxxo  
I have no idea what electric rates are in Canada, although my Canadian friends tell me it is much lower than in the USA.



It varies by province, largely depending on the costs involved in how each province generates electricity. (Hydro-electric, natural gas, etc.)
As far as I'm aware, Quebec has the cheapest rates, and Northwest Territories the highest.

[Edited on 6-7-2024 by surabi]

[Edited on 6-7-2024 by surabi]

oxxo - 6-6-2024 at 10:17 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck  
I was asking what Tesla chargers charge other vehicle manufacturers to use Tesla Superchargers


I have no idea what Tesla charges to other mfg's with a NACS receptacle, a Tesla account secured with a credit card, and since the program is still being implemented. This is a question best directed to Tesla on their website. This is way off topic to this thread.
Quote:
So...50% of your Tesla storage costs 12.00 USD to charge. Can I guess that that is about 40Kwh power?


When I charge at a Supercharger, which is rarely, I select only the 250 kWh chargers to charge (I am given a choice of Supercharges in my general area on my U.I.). In a pinch, I have used the 150 kWh chargers too. HOWEVER, those figures are at an optimum maximum rate when perhaps your BEV is only 10% state of charge and starts to slow down as your state of charge increases on the Supercharger. As you get to around 80% state of charge the rate of charge slows waaaaay down. So if you want to charge from 80 t0 100%, you are going to pay ALOT for those electrons.

At home, my Level 2 system (50 A, 240V), which is typical for home systems, is about 32 kWh MAXIMUM. I usually don't plug into my home charger until I get down to around 20%. I then charge my car to 70% and that 50% increase (20 > 70) usually lasts me a week or more depending on how much I drive (I'm retired), before I plug in again at home. As I post this, It has been over a week since I have charged my car at home or anywhere. Tomorrow, Friday night, I will charge my car at home to 100% since I will be visiting my daughter this weekend and that charge will be more than enough for my two-way trip.

Just asking for trouble, folks!

Lee - 6-7-2024 at 05:52 AM

Consumer Report, Fortune, Car & Driver all say the same thing. Informed consumers should steer clear of EV/PHEV's until the bugs have been worked out. I know I'll never buy one. Don't say I didn't warn ya.

''Electric vehicles have nearly 80% more problems and are generally less reliable than cars propelled by conventional internal combustion engines, according to a new report from Consumer Reports.

Plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEV) have an even worse scorecard, with an average of almost 150% more problems, the consumer group found. By contrast, ordinary hybrid cars are a "bright spot," with about a quarter fewer problems than gas-powered cars, the analysis found.''

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/electric-vehicles-consumer-repo...

oxxo - 6-7-2024 at 06:21 AM

OFF TOPIC posts will not be tolerated! Do not respond to the post above that is factually inaccurate. If the poster wants to talk about BEV's in general, he should start a new topic. This thread is about BEV use in Baja California.

Thank you.

JDCanuck - 6-7-2024 at 06:35 AM

Other than that one Tesla Supercharger in Ensenada, I see no other Tesla destination chargers in all of Baja other than the NACS ones listed on Plugshare, so its entirely applicable to Baja BEV's what they would be costing and how long they would take to recharge from a 250 mile segment, wouldn't you say? The Level 2 chargers would be usable if you stay overnite at one of the Hotels that provide it for free and they are available and working when you get there. A person would want to check that out in advance of driving there as the backup level one on any 120v is more of a very long time multi day trickle charge. We know Hotel One in La Paz is free if you stay there, but its been reported they have turned people down who didn't stay overnite.

JDCanuck - 6-7-2024 at 06:55 AM

In addition, I would guess driving a BEV down Baja would require a significant AC load. It would be great to hear from someone who drove down through Mexicali, recharged at the San Felipe Marine hotel, again at Guerrero Negro Terrasal, Loreto, La Paz, and finally Cabo. If each of those legs is actually doable with AC running and still having 15-20% left in reserve when arriving and also how long they had to wait to get going again. The extremely bad potholes and other rough road situations would be yet another consideration when dealing with modern vehicles with their myriad of electrical options, especially high voltage connectors and how they will stand up under Baja road conditions with extended use.


[Edited on 6-7-2024 by JDCanuck]

Tioloco - 6-7-2024 at 06:58 AM

Quote: Originally posted by oxxo  
OFF TOPIC posts will not be tolerated! Do not respond to the post above that is factually inaccurate. If the poster wants to talk about BEV's in general, he should start a new topic. This thread is about BEV use in Baja California.

Thank you.


? What exactly was not "tolerated"?

oxxo - 6-7-2024 at 07:01 AM

I never did respond to @DavidK's post, so here's the situation, in my opinion
Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Being this is a Baja forum, can we get more feedback on an EV on the peninsula's backcountry, ie. not the border cities, Ensenada, or Los Cabos.
Freedom to go and explore and enjoy seems hugely limited.


Yes, I agree with you at this point in BEV development. David, you are part of a fringe element (maybe 1% of all drivers) that the BEV industry has not addressed yet. However, BEV,s are currently under development, pickups with 600 mile range and all kinds of "off the grid" toys for people with your desires. In my opinion, they are still about 5 years down the road yet.

As far as BEV's in Baja California, the trip can be made by intrepid and determined travelers at a "relaxed pace" in 4 days from the California border to the Los Cabos. But right now, with only one Supercharger in Baja California, in Ensenada, it is not possible to do that trip in two days. This possibility will happen in 3 to 5 years, IN MY OPINION. in the meantime, personally, my BEV is not capable of doing that trip in 2 days and I am not interested in doing that trip in 4 days.
Quote:
I see it as great for daily commuting that is under 250 miles or whatever the 80% range is.


I disagree with you there. BEV's have been traversing the length and breath of the USA and Canada for years now. A BEV pickup(s) would be perfect for your personal commercial business in San Diego. The savings on "fuel" and maintenance alone will mean additional money in your pocket! If you do the math, you will see what I mean.

Safe travels amigo, and be prepared for the bad guys you might meet in the wild lands of Baja California!

oxxo - 6-7-2024 at 07:15 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck  
so its entirely applicable to Baja BEV's what they would be costing and how long they would take to recharge from a 250 mile segment, wouldn't you say?


As far as I know, the only Level 3 charger in Baja California is the Supercharger in Ensenada. All the others listed on PlugShare are Level 2, destination chargers, at various hotels, up and down Hwy 1 which would require an approximately 8 hour charge to 100%...depending on your state of charge arriving at that destination. I have no idea what the CFE cost of electricity is at these various destination chargers.

oxxo - 6-7-2024 at 07:27 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck  
In addition, I would guess driving a BEV down Baja would require a significant AC load. If each of those legs is actually doable with AC running and still having 15-20% left in reserve when arriving and also how long they had to wait to get going again


I drove my personal BEV in the Palm Springs area for the first 4 years I had it, where it can get to 120F during the summer. I know I ran the HVAC system regularly and it did cost some additional load, but I never measured it or worried about it because I would just recharge at night, at home, as needed. I can say that the heater mode (going up to the snow at Big Bear in the winter) seemed to cause more load on the HVAC system than the AC load.

JDCanuck - 6-7-2024 at 07:53 AM

Perhaps until Baja develops far more charging options than they have presently, we will have to live with something like this.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2024-byd-shark-phev-pickup-t...

If you installed about USD 10,000 additional solar charging capability (providing 20 to 30 daily kwh) including a level 2, 240v 50amp outlet you should be able to charge this off your own excess solar daily for the 60 miles of precharge it would provide easily. This was what we had installed at our place there, with the plan of charging a similar EV with the excess daily power available. Unfortunately, by the time we sold, this BYD truck was not available.

[Edited on 6-7-2024 by JDCanuck]

Lee - 6-7-2024 at 10:11 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco  
Quote: Originally posted by oxxo  
OFF TOPIC posts will not be tolerated! Do not respond to the post above that is factually inaccurate. If the poster wants to talk about BEV's in general, he should start a new topic. This thread is about BEV use in Baja California.

Thank you.


? What exactly was not "tolerated"?


Negativity about EV's? Personal experience that differs from OP's? Funny.

Doubt OP has experience in how things work in Baja. What happens when a EV needs a charge in GN and power is out? Or Loreto? Trusting CFE is a risky proposition.

Google ''EV reliability.'' Reviews are sobering.

Happy driving Baja with my 25 mpg and ability to be in and out of gas stations in minutes!

Hope this post isn't too intolerable. I don't post at OT anymore so it's not an option.

mtgoat666 - 6-7-2024 at 10:24 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Lee  
[
Doubt OP has experience in how things work in Baja. What happens when a EV needs a charge in GN and power is out? Or Loreto? Trusting CFE is a risky proposition.


Power outage will impact refueling of both ICE and EV cars. In my recent experience, during a power outage the gas stations will not pump gasoline.
In GN we waited for elec power to return before stations would dispense gasoline.

surabi - 6-7-2024 at 10:52 AM

True. Unless they have an alternate source of electricity, gas pumps don't work in a power outage.

[Edited on 6-7-2024 by surabi]

Tioloco - 6-7-2024 at 11:09 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Lee  
Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco  
Quote: Originally posted by oxxo  
OFF TOPIC posts will not be tolerated! Do not respond to the post above that is factually inaccurate. If the poster wants to talk about BEV's in general, he should start a new topic. This thread is about BEV use in Baja California.

Thank you.


? What exactly was not "tolerated"?


Negativity about EV's? Personal experience that differs from OP's? Funny.

Doubt OP has experience in how things work in Baja. What happens when a EV needs a charge in GN and power is out? Or Loreto? Trusting CFE is a risky proposition.

Google ''EV reliability.'' Reviews are sobering.

Happy driving Baja with my 25 mpg and ability to be in and out of gas stations in minutes!

Hope this post isn't too intolerable. I don't post at OT anymore so it's not an option.



I have a 2,100 mile range with my diesel pickup and auxiliary fuel tank. Cuts down to about a 1,300 mile range when towing my boat. EV is a lifetime away from those numbers.
For Baja traveling, EV is a very inconvenient choice.

Hopefully, this is On Topic enough as to not get ridiculed by the OP.