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oxxo
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Electric Vehicles in Baja California
This is a thread ONLY about the current viability of 100% electric vehicles in Baja California. Any posts that are off topic will be reported.
It is about 1000 miles from the San Diego area border and the southern tip of Baja California. Given that challenging distance, here are my
observations.
- I currently own a 100% electric vehicle (BEV). I have owned this vehicle for 5 1/2 years and have about 65K miles on it. I have never taken this
car into anywhere in Mexico. Prior to this, I owned a Prius hybrid that had about 20 miles range on battery only. I drove that car once from the US
border to Los Cabos (round trip) on 2 days each way, primarily using gasoline.
- My current BEV had 265 miles range when new, but currently the batteries have typically degraded to about 250 miles range.
- There is currently only 1 "supercharger" site (Tesla branded) consisting of 6 connections in Baja California at the Hotel Coral in Ensenada.
Supercharger sites are level 3 chargers of typically rated at 75kW, 150kW, and 250kW. The one in Ensenada is rated at 150kW.
- I generally start to search for a nearby charging site when my car gets down to around 15% to 20%, so about 50 miles of range left in my batteries.
Interestingly, some of the YouTube Warriors have run their cars down to 0% left but find that some can still drive them another 20-30 miles as a
built in safety measure.
- In my BEV, I can charge from 20% to 100% in about 20 minutes at a 250kW Supercharger. But at the 150kW Supercharger in Ensenada, it would take me
over 30 minutes to charge from 20% to 100%.
- There are dozens of "destination chargers" (non-Tesla branded) at various hotels up and down Hwy1 in Baja. These are all Level 2 chargers rated at
about 13kW. It would take about 8 hours (overnight) to charge my car from 20% to 100%.
- I average about 50 mph when driving from Tecate to Los Cabos (30 mph through the villages and up to 70 mph, on terrible roads, out in the middle of
the desert. I usually make this drive in 2 eleven hour days including food and rest stops.
- So, If I wanted to drive my BEV from California to Los Cabos, I could easily make it from San Diego to Ensenada for a 30 minute top up. However,
the rest of my trip would have to made in 3 to 4 hour legs and then stop for 8 hours and overnight at a destination charger. That means it would take
4 to 5 days to make this trip in my BEV, This is not a bad scenario if you could drive around and explore the area, but that is not possible since my
car would be tied to a destination charger for at least 8 hours!
- Most of the BEV's I see in Los Cabos are Mexican plated, purchased in either Guadalajara or Mexico City (Mexico mainland has several Tesla
Superchargers along the major highways) and then shipped over to Los Cabos by the Mazatlan/La Paz ferry. I could enter Mexico via Nogales, AZ, and
use this route but it would still involve a several day trip and an overnight on the ferry.
In conclusion, it is not realistic to for me to have a BEV in Los Cabos other than to ship it back and forth on a flatbed truck, which sort of defeats
the purpose of the BEV. Someday, there will be about 6 Supercharger stops between Ensenada and Los Cabos.....and I think I will live to see it. Then
I would have to worry about the bad guys pulling me over in the middle of the desert and stealing my car!
In response to other posts
- The 1st generation Nissan Leaf BEV was a "compliance car" and a very poor car at that. Fortunately the 3rd generation Leaf, available next year,
is a great looking car with terrific specifications and should erase the sour taste of the 2 previous iterations.
- BEV cars are becoming LESS expensive rather than MORE expensive, US and Worldwide.
- All BEV's sold in the US are adopting the Tesla developed NACS (North American Charging Standard) for their charging connections. No adapters will
be required and all BEV's will be able to to use the Tesla Supercharger system (although at a somewhat higher cost than Tesla branded BEV's. Me, I
really don't care because I charge at night when required on my Level 2 system I installed in my garage. Usually it is about an hour per night, once
or twice a week, when my electric rates are lowest. Easy Peasy, less than $25 of electricity in a month.
- Toyota and VW can forecast as much as they want, but they have not been good at implementing their forecasts. I'll believe it when I see it.
- Kia makes a relatively good product, but Hyundai is really building some premier models right now...not as good as a Tesla, but they're catching up!
- Hybrids are place holder models for those who have "range anxiety." After driving a GOOD BEV for a month, range anxiety usually disappears. I've
had my car for over 5 years and I don't have any range anxiety anymore than I would have "running out of gas anxiety." Range is just another
parameter to be managed (like gasoline) and you rarely give it a second thought. When my car gets low on range (and I can set what the low range is)
it gives me an alert on the U.I. (User Interface) and gives me directions to reach the nearest Supercharger safely.
- A Nissan Leaf towing a gas generator in Baja? In my opinion, that sort of defeats the purpose of a BEV.
- "My friend's Hyundai Kona EV gets around 250 miles on a full charge, depending on driving conditions. Those who are under the impression that you
can't drive long distances with an EV are misinformed. Depends on the vehicle, your driving style, highway vs. around town, etc."
It depends on the geography, ambient temperature (BEV's lose range in cold winter areas, NOT because of using the heater but batteries do not do as
well in low ambient temperatures), the speed you drive ( my BEV's highway range is based on the local speed limit, usually 65 mph - drive faster and
it's going to cost you, your choice), My BEV gets better range on the highway than stop and go city driving, AND tires and wheels (I have low rolling
resistance tires with aero wheel covers, drive them fancy spokey wheels with them spaghetti tires and it will cost you in range!)
- Yes British Columbia and Washington State are a hotbed of BEV adoption.....right after California where Teslas have replaced Toyota as the most
common automobile on the roads.
There is a lot of misunderstanding about BEV's, some of it justified, but BEV's are the logical choice for the immediate future (long after I'm gone)
until some better form of mass, convenient transportation is developed.
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JZ
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Today EV's are good for driving around town. If you want to go further, get gas or a hybrid.
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larryC
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On my last trip through Catavina I met a guy and his wife from San Diego. They were staying at the Desert Inn and driving a Tesla and had been to Cabo
and were on their way back to SD. He said that he has had no problems on the trip finding places to recharge, usually at the larger hotels, I didn't
ask but now I'm curious what the hotels charge to recharge. Probably somewhere near what it would cost to fill your car with gasoline.
Off grid, 12-190 watt evergreen solar panels on solar trackers, 2-3648 stacked Outback inverters, 610ah LiFePo4 48v battery bank, FM 60 and MX60
Outback charge controllers, X-240 Outback transformer for 240v from inverters, 6500 watt Kubota diesel generator.
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oxxo
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Quote: Originally posted by JZ  | Today EV's are good for driving around town. If you want to go further, get gas or a hybrid.
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That is incorrect. I have over 65K miles on my car and have driven it all over the Western US. Some owners have over 200K on their BEV's and have
driven them all over the US and Canada. You obviously don't own a BEV, otherwise you would NOT be making such an uninformed remark. Why are you even
on this thread with no experience in the subject topic and nothing of value to add? But you are welcome to participate and continue to stay on topic,
sort of, and prove to the world that you are ignorant on this subject.
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oxxo
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| Quote: Originally posted by larryC | | On my last trip through Catavina I met a guy and his wife from San Diego. They were staying at the Desert Inn and driving a Tesla and had been to Cabo
and were on their way back to SD. He said that he has had no problems on the trip finding places to recharge, usually at the larger hotels, I didn't
ask but now I'm curious what the hotels charge to recharge. Probably somewhere near what it would cost to fill your car with gasoline.
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Yes, there is a destination charger at Desert Inn in Catavina. I don't know what the Desert Inn charges since I have never used it. But I do know
the Terrasal Hotel in GN charged me nothing for charging all night the last time I used it. It was included in the price of the room....but my dog
was a few pesos extra for the night. I think they might charge extra for a couple of hours charge IF you weren't staying for the night.
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JDCanuck
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It seems to me down Baja driving a BEV for long trips with very few high wattage chargers would take a long time at present charging every 3 to 4
hours of driving. Why wouldn't a hybrid or gas vehicle be much quicker in that venue?
I would find the same situation up here at present. I did notice California is entirely a different story, especially if you have a Tesla. Even here,
Tesla Superchargers are very available. Hopefully, either a whole lot more high wattage chargers or BEVs with far greater range between charges will
change this, but for now....hybrids do seem the best alternative in Baja.
[Edited on 6-4-2024 by JDCanuck]
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JDCanuck
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As mentioned elsewhere, BYD is selling EVs in Mexico. I am not sure where in Baja they can be purchased. Two models are of extra interest to me. For
cities, the BYD Dolphin, which happens to be the cheapest BEV i have seen to date and has some V2L capability as a bonus. For longer trips, and
especially the off road demands of Baja back roads, the newly announced Shark Hybrid PHEV also has V2L. This one seems to be pretty expensive compared
to the gas only alternatives. I'd be especially interested in hearing how these vehicles test out in real life
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JZ
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| Quote: Originally posted by oxxo | | Quote: Originally posted by JZ | Today EV's are good for driving around town. If you want to go further, get gas or a hybrid.
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That is incorrect. I have over 65K miles on my car and have driven it all over the Western US. Some owners have over 200K on their BEV's and have
driven them all over the US and Canada. You obviously don't own a BEV, otherwise you would NOT be making such an uninformed remark. Why are you even
on this thread with no experience in the subject topic and nothing of value to add? But you are welcome to participate and continue to stay on topic,
sort of, and prove to the world that you are ignorant on this subject. |
My opinion is different from yours. You can type as many words as you like, but you won't force me to agree with you. Be better.
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surabi
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Opinions are quite different from actual experience.
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Tioloco
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Would like to hear from someone thats camped out in San Francisquito for a few days in their EV
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surabi
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| Quote: Originally posted by larryC | | I didn't ask but now I'm curious what the hotels charge to recharge. Probably somewhere near what it would cost to fill your car with gasoline.
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I seriously doubt that. It doesn't cost anywhere near what it costs to fill your car with gas to charge an EV, not even close.
As oxxo said, his hotel let guests charge for free.
However, it is a new issue for hotels and Airbnbs to figure out what, if, and how much to charge guests to charge an EV. After all, no one would
expect their hotel or Airbnb host to pay to fill their car with gas, and electricity isn't free.
What I do know is that Airbnb hosts are handling it different ways at the moment to figure out what is most viable. Some just raise their nightly
price across the board by a few bucks to cover the occasional charging, some are asking for something like 5 or 6 bucks a charge, depending on
electric rates in their area, some are using an honor system, asking guests with EVs to chip in what they feel is appropriate, and some with places on
the high end might just include it for no extra cost.
What seems most fair would be to charge what public charging stations do.
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Tioloco
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| Quote: Originally posted by larryC | | On my last trip through Catavina I met a guy and his wife from San Diego. They were staying at the Desert Inn and driving a Tesla and had been to Cabo
and were on their way back to SD. He said that he has had no problems on the trip finding places to recharge, usually at the larger hotels, I didn't
ask but now I'm curious what the hotels charge to recharge. Probably somewhere near what it would cost to fill your car with gasoline.
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With current gas prices being high, it appears charging is about 1/2 the cost of gasoline. However, a full charge at a supercharger is listed as
taking 1 hour. Full tank of gasoline takes about 2 minutes. Some of it depends on what your time is worth and how you value the convenience. It is
also really easy to carry extra fuel for extended trips with a gas powered vehicle. Not practical to carry spare batteries for an EV.
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco | | It is also really easy to carry extra fuel for extended trips with a gas powered vehicle. Not practical to carry spare batteries for an EV.
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Less than 1% of vehicle buyers in USA and EU carry extra fuel to camp in the boondocks.
Detroit focus is on cars for the larger market, not the fringe percentage that boondocks..
There will always be a small market for remote workers and boondockers, but that small market share will not stop the overall shift of primary market
to electric.
There will continue to be some market for ICE vehicles for remote workers and boondockers, but the bread and butter market for detroit is shifting
electric.
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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Tioloco
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| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | | Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco | | It is also really easy to carry extra fuel for extended trips with a gas powered vehicle. Not practical to carry spare batteries for an EV.
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Less than 1% of vehicle buyers in USA and EU carry extra fuel to camp in the boondocks.
Detroit focus is on cars for the larger market, not the fringe percentage that boondocks..
There will always be a small market for remote workers and boondockers, but that small market share will not stop the overall shift of primary market
to electric.
There will continue to be some market for ICE vehicles for remote workers and boondockers, but the bread and butter market for detroit is shifting
electric.
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I think you are heavily underestimating the market for ICE outside of city centers. Construction and Farming are huge and the electric isnt there.
But for Baja, electric is waaaayyy off on the horizon.
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RFClark
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Driving an EV to Cabo is possible if:
1) It has a 300 mile range
2) you carry a level 2 charger and AC adaptors
3) If your car has uncommon tire sizes. You carry a spare. (Tesla)
4) If you have a way to send texts through satellites.
5) Have a spirit of adventure!
6) Contact Baja Bound in advance to get Insurance for your EV.
Day 1 -Start from San Felipe with a full charge drive to Guerro Negro 250 Miles Overnight charge there - Tesla destination Charger
Day 2 Drive to Loreto 250 Miles Overnight charge there - Tesla destination charger
Day 3 Drive to La Paz under 250 miles Overnight Charge there - Free Tesla destination charger at Hotel One.
Day 4 Drive to Los Cabos Honk when you pass our place Level 2 charger 6KW - 40KW/day requires an adaptor to Tesla
Notes:
La Paz will probably have a level 3 Charger soon. I’m unsure that Los Cabos can support even a single 150KW level 3 charger any time soon so a home
level 2 charger and w/o solar a really big CFE bill!
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msteve1014
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Right now driving an ev around baja on vacation seems like more trouble than it is worth. For a one way trip to your new home, or back and forth once
a year, maybe. But you need to live in a big town with good power, or have a ton of your own solar.not good for most people yet.who will work on it
when there is a problem? Have it towed to La Paz?
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David K
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Speaking of facts vs opinions...
It hasn't been called 'Desert Inn' in many years... of all the Desert Inns, that replaced La Pinta (which replaced El Presidente for the Parador
locations), only the San Ignacio one still was called Desert Inn when I went to them all in 2017.
The one in Cataviña is called 'Hotel Misión Cataviña'
The one south of San Quintín is the 'Hotel Misión Santa María'
The one near Guerrero Negro at the state border is called 'Half Way Inn'
As for the subject, Oxxo, can you share with us how long each of your "fill-ups" takes when compared to a gasoline or other liquid fuel vehicle?
Thank you for an interesting thread.
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Ateo
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K |
As for the subject, Oxxo, can you share with us how long each of your "fill-ups" takes when compared to a gasoline or other liquid fuel vehicle?
Thank you for an interesting thread. |
I guess I’ll jump in and try to answer this question because I purchased an EV 6 months ago.
When I’m out and about for work and I am a little over 150 miles away from home, I will pull into a supercharger to “fill up”.
Last night when I did it, it took about 15 to 20 minutes. That was to get my battery back to about 80% which is enough for me to continue on my route
and get back home.
If I was on empty it would’ve taken about 30 minutes.
Sometimes the onboard computer will show that I’m a couple miles short on range to get back home, where I usually charge, so I’ll pull in to top
off and that takes about five minutes to get enough juice to get me back home.
When I get home, I just plug in and the thing automatically charges at midnight when the electricity rates are lowest. This vehicle has cut my fuel
costs from close to $700 a month, down to $200 a month.
And I guess I should mention that I used to spend about 10 minutes a week at a gas station fueling up my vehicle. I would estimate that I still spend
the same amount of time now….
So far my six month experience has been fantastic and there is no way I will ever buy another gas car again. Never….
Thank you for the interesting topic Oxxo.
[Edited on 6-4-2024 by Ateo]
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Ateo
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When forecasting new installations on EV chargers in Baja, I guess it would be important to take into consideration a couple of factors that are
needed.
I am by no way and expert on this. In fact, I know probably a little more than zero.
What I do know is that many of my gasoline station customers in Southern California are starting to install EV chargers at new sites that they are
building.
Two of them recently opened and I am pleasantly surprised that the EV chargers are actually getting some use!!
These gas station owners are telling me that there’s a little bit of an infrastructure upgrade that needs to be done with the electricity that is
coming into the station. So a “ground up” new gas station built seems like the best way and best time to put a charger in. You’re basically
committing to having a gas station there for the next 30 years and you might as well include EV charging.
So my guess is that as some new gas stations get built down in Baja that an entrepreneur with maybe an extra $50,000 will decide to add an EV charger
at his gas station and slowly start filling in some gaps in charging coverage.
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RFClark
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Ateo,
The biggest issue with fast chargers (level 3) is the large intermittent loads they place on the electrical infrastructure. A 150KW charger is equal
to 10+ electric clothes dryers running at the same time. Consider the last electric dryer you saw in BCS! An overnight charger draws from 4KW to 14KW
(level 2). There are a few of these in BCS, mostly at Hotels.
The other issue is CFE’s rate structure penalizes large users with progressively higher rates to offer lower rates to its average residential user.
Based on our experience charging our PHEV it would require 36 - 540W solar panels and 2 - 10KW inverters to run a 14KW car charger. That’s about
$15K US in parts. Such a system would allow 400 miles a day of driving (100KW). The return is about $.40/KW compared to $5/gal gas as the average EV
gets 3.5 - 4 miles/KW. Our gas milage w/o electricity is about 50 MPG.
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