BajaNomad - ECR - Santa Gertrudis to San Ignacio

https://filebin.net/8syujfajfh9vxcxi

This link is to an eight page topo map PDF of the El Camino Real section Santa Gertrudis to San Ignacio. The trail is marked as a green line. This link remains active for the next six days.

If anyone downloads the PDF for a look, and then has any suggestions or corrections as to my trail positioning, please pass them along on this thread. Thanks.

A list of water sources on this route would be much appreciated.

[Edited on 10-8-2024 by cupcake]

Very nice job with the trail on the maps!

Fatboy - 10-9-2024 at 09:23 AM

In the book, The Mission Walker, Edie talks about being required to have a guide through sections of that walk due to Cave Paintings. You will need to look into that.

in Crosby's book it seemed pretty straight forward as far as the ECR goes.

cupcake - 10-9-2024 at 11:07 AM

get me your email and I'll send you the reliable water sources

Harald, I tried to send you my email address via a U2U. When I clicked 'send' it informed me that there was an error because I had been sending too many emails. However, this is the first U2U I have ever sent. When I look at my U2U screen, it tells me that my U2U to you has been sent, so maybe you will receive it. If you don't receive it, can you send me a U2U with your email address, and then I will email you so you have my address?

cupcake - 10-9-2024 at 11:17 AM

I need to say that I have no type of tablet, phone, or device, so I'm not sure the waypoints will be helpful for me, What I need is place names that I can mark on my maps, i.e. Santa Martha, Las Juntas, etc.

[Edited on 10-9-2024 by cupcake]

cupcake - 10-9-2024 at 11:27 AM

Santa Gertrudis is off the beaten path, not sure what kind of transportation there is to get there.

I went with Angel to Santa Gertrudis earlier this year in his truck. He lives both at San Borja and Nuevo Rosarito and we have communicated via email, though I haven't contacted him yet about dropping me at Santa Gertrudis, as I am not sure when I will be ready to go. Having been there previously, I know how far Santa Gertrudis is from Highway 1...too far to be a good walking bail-out point on the ECR.

[Edited on 10-9-2024 by cupcake]

cupcake - 10-9-2024 at 11:32 AM

Very nice job with the trail on the maps!

Good to know, David. I am not a 'purist' in regards to needing to be exactly on the actual old ECR. I would like to be close, and I would certainly like to see parts of the old trail, like cuestas, which would be thrilling. But, if the actual ECR was overgrown, spiny, and difficult at a certain point, and I could move 100 yards and have a much easier and faster time, I wouldn't hesitate to do it.

cupcake - 10-9-2024 at 11:40 AM

In the book, The Mission Walker, Edie talks about being required to have a guide through sections of that walk due to Cave Paintings. You will need to look into that.

in Crosby's book it seemed pretty straight forward as far as the ECR goes.

John, I thought this might be the case, with the proximity of Santa Marta to 'painted caves'. I am flexible with this, and I figured Angel could advise me on what I will need to do. I am 65 years old and literally about half the hiking man I used to be (my best times on certain routes are now almost twice what they used to be). If I push myself these days the result is not increased fitness, but rather a pulled calf muscle. A guide, mule, burrow might help me avoid hurting myself.

[Edited on 10-9-2024 by cupcake]

David K - 10-9-2024 at 12:58 PM

Very nice job with the trail on the maps!

I think if you have the Benchmark Baja Atlas downloaded on your phone, it has the ECR as hiked by Kevin and Genevieve, but the scales is not so great that the line could be 100 yards off the trail on the ground. You will be close and you won't get too far from it since your location is pinpointed on the map as you travel in Baja. Do see their work and waypoints on the Google Earth download at www.caminorealbaja.com for sure. Use it for Loreto to El Rosario. El Rosario north to the border is overlaid by Hwy. 1, or under new construction or simply vanished by wet weather for 250+ years.

The obvious Jesuit constructed road ends at San Borja (founded in 1762) with just a couple of exceptions north of there. The Jesuits were removed just 7 months after their final mission at Santa María was established (May 26, 1767). So, there was no time to build the road to their standards. The Franciscans and Dominicans were no road building engineers and their ECR is no different than a cattle trail. An exception was the Canyon Santa María bypass ECR and the cargo or 'Antelope Spring' trail to Gonzaga Bay, that Junípero Serra ordered made after he arrived there in 1769.

Another resource, is Baja Nomad 'Baja Bucko' (Teddi) who has traveled most of it multiple times, by mule. Edie (The Mission Walker) is a wonderful and friendly lady and will chat with you (email) but she was at the mercy of local guides and some of the time, her route was not on or near the true trail, but parallel to it... Loreto to the U.S. Border.

Keep up the ECR excitement!

cupcake - 10-18-2024 at 10:26 AM

https://filebin.net/h0vvpe7mkd4scn6e

The above link is to my 7mb PDF topo map file, on Filebin, of the ECR Santa Gertrudis to San Ignacio section. The same maps that I started this thread with, but now I have marked water points and GPS coordinates.

If you download the PDF, please feel free to critique and make suggestions. The file remains available for six days.

David K - 10-18-2024 at 11:04 AM

Very nice! :light:

Here is part of one, north of Santa Martha, northeast of San Ignacio:

[Edited on 10-18-2024 by David K]

cupcake - 10-18-2024 at 05:18 PM

Thanks David. The Caltopo website you directed me to, is great in that GPS coordinates are displayed for any location that the computer mouse cursor is moved to. The free maps I downloaded are at 200 DPI. Apparently, if one pays an annual fee of $50, it is possible to get 400 DPI resolution downloads.

I bought a Garmin ETREX 22X GPS device. I can foresee me possibly having problems in using my map GPS marks to verify that I am still on route. I am a newbie to GPS use; hopefully I will learn enough to make my GPS device, in conjunction with my marked topo maps, a good navigation system. I want to use the GPS at its most basic; I believe some people call it 'breadcrumbs'. I will have a compass as well, so hopefully can keep from getting lost. I may be required to hire a guide anyway, but it will be good to see how my use of the GPS turns out, in any event.

[Edited on 10-19-2024 by cupcake]

cupcake - 10-19-2024 at 12:36 PM

4x4abc has tons of waypoints, so you should get some good info there.

Harald has been a wonderful source of information for water sources on the route. He has been very generous in sharing his data, advising on which water sources may now be dry and which ones are likely still reliable. Thanks Harald!

PaulW - 10-19-2024 at 01:23 PM

Cupcake
Using a Garmin etrex 22x:
you can import a GPX file to a Garmin eTrex 22x by transferring the file to the device's GPX folder
How to get a gpx file
1) Have some one send you the file
2) Make your own file
a) Go to Google Earth and use “add a path” and make the track
b) The save the file as a kml file
c) Go to the web and convert it to a gpx file
d) follow instructions on the first line above.
Many trails and roads are clearly visible on Google Earth for you to make a path from.
Once you make the path it will contain all the track points on your gps you want.

cupcake - 10-19-2024 at 02:51 PM

Thanks PaulW.
I just downloaded the Garmin 22X Owner's Manual, and I will be reading through it as I familiarize myself with the device.

The critical thing for me, was to be able to take a GPS reading of locations along the way, and this seems easy enough to do. I was pleasantly surprised to see that each GPS location reading, or waypoint, that my device takes, also has an elevation in feet. I wasn't expecting that, as I was told that this model has no altimeter. Maybe the device calculates elevation in a different manner? In any even, the elevations it has given thus far have been accurate.

David K - 10-19-2024 at 05:43 PM

Thanks PaulW.
I just downloaded the Garmin 22X Owner's Manual, and I will be reading through it as I familiarize myself with the device.

The critical thing for me, was to be able to take a GPS reading of locations along the way, and this seems easy enough to do. I was pleasantly surprised to see that each GPS location reading, or waypoint, that my device takes, also has an elevation in feet. I wasn't expecting that, as I was told that this model has no altimeter. Maybe the device calculates elevation in a different manner? In any even, the elevations it has given thus far have been accurate.

Yes, it uses the distance to the satellites and the distance from them to sea level to calculate your elevation. It is pretty accurate and no need for barametic pressure adjustment.

4x4abc - 10-19-2024 at 05:58 PM

Quote: Originally posted by PaulW

Cupcake
Using a Garmin etrex 22x:
you can import a GPX file to a Garmin eTrex 22x by transferring the file to the device's GPX folder
How to get a gpx file
1) Have some one send you the file
2) Make your own file
a) Go to Google Earth and use “add a path” and make the track
b) The save the file as a kml file
c) Go to the web and convert it to a gpx file
d) follow instructions on the first line above.
Many trails and roads are clearly visible on Google Earth for you to make a path from.
Once you make the path it will contain all the track points on your gps you want.

I'll be happy to provide the entire track
plus whatever waypoints you like

I hate Garmin products, but now you are stuck with it

I would highly recommend to spend as much time as possible on Google Earth (desktop version) and follow the trail.
There are long sections where the trail has been washed away. Since those sections often are not used by locals or animals - there is no path to follow. It will be bushwhacking until you pick up the established trail again.
I would highly recommend to mark those points where the trail disappears and comes back up again. Otherwise you might be bushwhacking parallel to the trail unnecessarily.
I'll be happy to mark those in/out points for you.
Then you transfer them into your GPS.
They won't do you any good on the paper map.

I have done this section with locals guides.
It is fun and relatively easy.
But you could also get lost at a heartbeat.

if you do the trail alone - get an inReach device. The cheapest one will do.

[Edited on 10-20-2024 by 4x4abc]

cupcake - 10-19-2024 at 06:14 PM

Yes, it uses the distance to the satellites and the distance from them to sea level to calculate your elevation. It is pretty accurate and no need for barametic pressure adjustment.

Thanks David. I was at REI today and was advised of the same. Apparently, this 22X device uses a multi-band system, which makes it more reliable in canyons, or other areas where high, sheer, rock formations can render a single-band system unit less reliable. This is discussed at a Garmin website:
https://www.garmin.com/en-US/blog/outdoor/why-multi-band-qa-...

David K - 10-19-2024 at 06:20 PM

I have owned two Garmin eTrex models and recorded many waypoints when I was traveling in the early 2000s. They are all on this webpage at VivaBaja.com and now I have included the GPX file (and a KMZ link) should you wish to download them: https://vivabaja.com/gps/

cupcake - 10-19-2024 at 06:24 PM

Quote: Originally posted by PaulW

Thanks Harald.
Yes, please pass along this information. I might not get up to speed to use it properly, but I should at least give it a shot.

Thanks also for your words of wisdom!

There is a good chance I will try to go with a guide or vaquero. It is the smart thing for me to do, but comes with the knowledge that I am 'having my hand held' so to speak. However, there are worse things than having one's hand held.

cupcake - 10-19-2024 at 06:27 PM

I have owned two Garmin eTrex models and recorded many waypoints when I was traveling in the early 2000s. They are all on this webpage at VivaBaja.com and now I have included the GPX file (and a KMZ link) should you wish to download them: https://vivabaja.com/gps/

Thanks David.
I will certainly have a look at your linked information. As with everyone, I am limited by what I can get my head around.

David K - 10-19-2024 at 06:29 PM

Oh, I get it! "So much Baja... so little time!"

4x4abc - 10-19-2024 at 07:00 PM

Kevin, help me understand your waypoints
almost all are way off the trail

PaulW - 10-20-2024 at 08:23 AM

Some GPS info
Now days Garmin is using a modern GPS module with 12 channels
This is good because you will have the accuracy that will accurately translate to topo maps.
The Etrex does not create tracks with track points but will create all the waypoints you want and you travel along.
Since you want to travel the ECR you must have a GPX track loaded into your Trex. The reason for this is if all you have are waypoints loaded then you will surely get immediately get lost. Even with a loaded GPX track if the creator of the track did no use accurate track points. it will still be an issue.
When I get a track from someone I always view it on an internet viewer to see how far the track points are for each other.
Example a track created by an Inreach can be as accurate a a 5 second track point interval. My Lowrance can also be that accurate. It even has the option of distance between track points which is what I use and the result is a much bigger file.
One other note about GPS elevation. Accuracy is highly dependent on how many satellites are viewed by the GPS. Thus in a canyon with steep walls (like Diablo ) the accuracy is very bad. And even the coordinates are inaccurate and will not match the topo map.

cupcake - 10-20-2024 at 11:02 AM

Kevin, help me understand your waypoints
almost all are way off the trail

Harald, You cared enough to check, thank you. I just spot checked a few of my map waypoints and found they are as I intended. I used the Caltopo website:
https://caltopo.com/map.html#ll=28.03475,-113.11094&z=14...

I was not too concerned about having my waypoints right on the ECR, and being off by 500 feet or so was ok with me; just being near enough to use for navigation was what I wanted. When you say they are "way off" what kind of distances are you meaning?

My approach to this, because of the nature of my experience, is that my reading of the topo map and the actual terrain when I am on the ground, is the most important, then compass direction, then GPS coordinates. So, for instance, if I think I see where I am on the map (the surrounding ground features match my map), and direction of travel looks right (compass), and then the given GPS waypoint on my map is within 500 feet of what my GPS device reads on the ground, then I am satisfied that this is my location, or nearly so. I would make any corrections to my GPS map waypoints in the field, as I move.

Now, if you were to tell me that my waypoints are off by a mile, then that would alarm me.

I have no history of using GPS for navigation, so perhaps I will become more concerned with pinpoint GPS accuracy as I work with the technology.

cupcake - 10-20-2024 at 11:12 AM

Oh, I get it! "So much Baja... so little time!"

David, I have no doubt that I can become competent in using my GPS device, but the question is how quickly can I do that. I suspect not before I go on my first trip with the device. When I am out on the trail and tired, I don't want to be trying to use something that I am not rock solid with for navigation. The consequences of failure are too serious. I need to be doing things that I have done for years, that are instinctive to me. I feel confident I can take accurate GPS readings along the way, as I am doing that easily now. But beyond that, I will see what I can do.

4x4abc - 10-20-2024 at 11:22 AM

Kevin, help me understand your waypoints
almost all are way off the trail

only one of the waypoints was on the trail.
You WILL get lost if the waypoints are not on the trail
even though this is an easy section of the trail - it is not that easy

28.04123, -113.10245 260ft off

28.00683, -113.13309 380ft off

27.97242, -113.13892 350ft off

27.93876, -113.12124 340ft off

27.91161, -113.12450 on trail

27.89507, -113.04159 488ft off

27.83437, -113.02683 on trail

27.82875, -113.00486 225ft off

27.81281, -112.97238 640ft off

27.80947, -112.96108 100ft off

starting at 27.745832°, -112.902059° you'll be on a real, recent road until Santa Marta - so no danger there.

[Edited on 10-20-2024 by 4x4abc]

cupcake - 10-20-2024 at 11:25 AM

Quote: Originally posted by PaulW

Some GPS info
Now days Garmin is using a modern GPS module with 12 channels
This is good because you will have the accuracy that will accurately translate to topo maps.
The Etrex does not create tracks with track points but will create all the waypoints you want and you travel along.
Since you want to travel the ECR you must have a GPX track loaded into your Trex. The reason for this is if all you have are waypoints loaded then you will surely get immediately get lost. Even with a loaded GPX track if the creator of the track did no use accurate track points. it will still be an issue.
When I get a track from someone I always view it on an internet viewer to see how far the track points are for each other.
Example a track created by an Inreach can be as accurate a a 5 second track point interval. My Lowrance can also be that accurate. It even has the option of distance between track points which is what I use and the result is a much bigger file.
One other note about GPS elevation. Accuracy is highly dependent on how many satellites are viewed by the GPS. Thus in a canyon with steep walls (like Diablo ) the accuracy is very bad. And even the coordinates are inaccurate and will not match the topo map.

Thanks Paul. I downloaded my device owner's manual yesterday and see that it discusses loading files to the device. I'm not sure if I will need to install a memory card for this, or if there is space for such a file as the device comes from the manufacturer. I guess I will find out when I get around to connecting the device to a computer.

[Edited on 10-20-2024 by cupcake]

4x4abc - 10-20-2024 at 11:26 AM

for safest travel, you want to be ON the trail!
any bushwhacking will add exhausting hours to your travel

read fatboy's struggle to find his way!

cupcake - 10-20-2024 at 11:32 AM

for safest travel, you want to be ON the trail!
any bushwhacking will add exhausting hours to your travel

read fatboy's struggle to find his way!

Are there not points where possibly the exact trail is overgrown with thorny plants, and by moving off the trail you might have an easier go of it?

I imagine a possible scenario where a hiker might wander back and forth across an old and not much used trail, picking the easiest way, but not losing 'contact' with the original route.

cupcake - 10-20-2024 at 11:47 AM

Kevin, help me understand your waypoints
almost all are way off the trail

Thanks for this list of coordinates to verify. I am relieved to see that most are under 500 feet "off trail". I just checked the first coordinate on this list against the Caltopo website. That coordinate looks to me to be exactly on one of the trails leading out of Mission Santa Gertrudis. There are a number of trails leading out of Santa Gertrudis (in the area in question), taking any of them will get you on the way to Las Juntas. Now, maybe that is not the exact ECR that I have marked, I don't know, but I don't see myself getting lost by using that waypoint. That is, as long as the Caltopo website is accurate. Please do check the Caltopo website...move the mouse cursor to the exact location that I show the waypoint on my topo map...if you agree that the Caltopo reading for that point is accurate, then I see no problem (with that one waypoint).

[Edited on 10-20-2024 by cupcake]

4x4abc - 10-20-2024 at 11:52 AM

ideally you can follow animal tracks on and of the trail for easiest travel
but there are many stretches where animal have no interest in going where you want to go - they might lead you way off.

below is a good example - the well established trail (about 11 ft) has been washed away and all you have is the animal track of about 2.5 ft

cow trail in Boleo, well defined to nothing 800.jpg - 280kB

cupcake - 10-20-2024 at 12:09 PM

If you know the direction of travel you want (compass), an animal track should not lead you astray. If an animal track starts to deviate from your desired direction of travel, you should know it pretty quick. I carry a small directional compass on a necklace, so I can spot check my direction of travel as often as I like.

My approach to this is that I should be ready to reach my desired destinations along the ECR route by what at times might amount to cross country travel. Being off trail by 250 feet doesn't seem like a problem, as long as I know where I am.

[Edited on 10-20-2024 by cupcake]

David K - 10-20-2024 at 12:18 PM

So much fun living vicariously with your hike!
Thank you.
OK, so now some ECR chat:

I presume you read Harry Crosby's details on the ECR... Road Building in Antigua California: https://sandiegohistory.org/journal/1977/january/bajaroad/

and Mapping ECR: https://sandiegohistory.org/journal/1977/january/bajamapping...

That all was over 50 years ago when researched and later written. Modern ECR mapping hikers (who endevour to locate true Jesuit routes vs more modern ranch and cattle trails) are Kevin and Genevieve of www.CaminoRealBaja.com
Kevin is very easy to communicate with and open-minded to new discoveries. They began this project over 20 years ago, hiking and mapping sections during their holidays.

One note from their site:
Many waypoints have a lowercase letter next to the section letter (i.e., Fd58*). The second letter indicates that this is actually a trail option that is true ECR. There are many of these, and it is good to remember that El Camino Real is really a web of trails that usually converge at the various missions.

Personal note:
Sadly, I have only hiked a few small sections of the trail... But, between those in-field experinces and reading so much about it, the trail takes the most logical and easiest route. Obviously, it went to water souces between the missions, as well. The Natives (no doubt) guided the padres and may have had trails already. However, the Jesuit mission trail (as far as Santa María) was constructed as straight as possible to shorten travel times and switchbacks were built when the terrain was steep, with straight runs as much as the land would allow.

So, as you run out of visible trail (due to brush growth or flash flood/ erosion) try to just take the most logical route the terrain allows, going the direction intended. The trail will magically reappear and you will wonder why the missing sections did not show. Well, it has been 300 years or more for the part south of San Ignacio and well over 200 years for the rest!

Because the Jesuits were removed just a few years after the founding of San Borja, most of the typical Jesuit road/trail ends there and beyond was not much more than what loks like a cattle trail today. There are some exceptions, but the Franciscans and Dominicans were not the engineers that the Jesuits were.

When hiking the trail west of Gonzaga Bay, if we lost signs of it, by looking uphill and westbound, we found it again a short distance away.

Now, thanks to the Benchmark Maps digital download, which shows Kevin & Genevieve's track of ECR (Loreto to El Rosario), you can see your position relative to their track. Now, the scale is not so grand that you can always be precise with their track, at least you will soon see if you are headed the wrong way. The digital map loads onto a smart phone or tablet, using GPS and not cell towers to locate you anywhere in Baja... and is under $20. The Avenza Map App you use for it is free: https://store.avenza.com/products/baja-california-atlas-land...

Here is a screenshot of the Benchmark map, on my phone, with the ECR Trail. The bullseye is over the auto road to Mission Santa María. You can save your tracks, as you see the ones I made here, on the two routes (going and coming) to compare.

You can't beat this kind of assistance for the price and simplicity.
GOOD LUCK!

cupcake - 10-20-2024 at 12:31 PM

From David's post above^^
"So, as you run out of visible trail (due to brush growth or flash flood/ erosion) try to just take the most logical route the terrain allows, going the direction intended. The trail will magically reappear and you will wonder why the missing sections did not show. Well, it has been 300 years or more for the part south of San Ignacio and well over 200 years for the rest!"

Yes, that is how I envision it (haven't been there yet). If I do this as a solo trekker, I will be on a 'water clock'. I would take three one-gallon jugs, and I would know where I want to be at given points of my water supply being depleted. Also, very important to be able to 'go back' (i.e. there are good water sources at Santa Gertrudis and Las Juntas). If I am not going according to 'water schedule', it means what I am doing is not working and I need to go back.

[Edited on 10-20-2024 by cupcake]

David K - 10-20-2024 at 01:45 PM

Yes, I hope Fatboy chimes in, too!

cupcake - 10-20-2024 at 06:19 PM

Harald,
I can see the logic in having the waypoints exactly on the trail, so I am changing my waypoints. It is not difficult or time consuming, but I am limited in the number of free edits I get with the online PDF editors. When I finish, I will send you the PDF sheets and post them here. I will likely eventually add compass directions as well, but I might do this by hand on the printed maps.

[Edited on 10-21-2024 by cupcake]

4x4abc - 10-21-2024 at 09:45 AM

Just got home, and I am downloading your file now.

4x4abc has tons of waypoints, so you should get some good info there.

And of course Kevin and Genevieve have many waypoints for the trail itself.

Kevin picked a route that is not completely covered by (the other) Kevin's waypoints

4x4abc - 10-21-2024 at 09:47 AM

Harald,
I can see the logic in having the waypoints exactly on the trail, so I am changing my waypoints. It is not difficult or time consuming, but I am limited in the number of free edits I get with the online PDF editors. When I finish, I will send you the PDF sheets and post them here. I will likely eventually add compass directions as well, but I might do this by hand on the printed maps.

[Edited on 10-21-2024 by cupcake]

just load the waypoints into your GPS - that's what it was designed for

4x4abc - 10-21-2024 at 10:54 AM

use Google earth to set your waypoints - much more accurate than the topo sheets

cupcake - 10-21-2024 at 12:58 PM

https://filebin.net/fn8b7iovjbgh4hjy

The above link is to the the PDF of my Santa Gertrudis to San Ignacio route, with GPS waypoints moved onto the trail. This link remains active for six days only.

I have been advised that some of this route is not the original ECR. Harald has sent files to me that contain route variations, which I plan on incorporating into my map when I can. I imagine if I took a guide / vaquero on this trek, they also might have their own trail variations that they like to use.

David K - 10-21-2024 at 03:04 PM

https://filebin.net/fn8b7iovjbgh4hjy

The above link is to the the PDF of my Santa Gertrudis to San Ignacio route, with GPS waypoints moved onto the trail. This link remains active for six days only.

I have been advised that some of this route is not the original ECR. Harald has sent files to me that contain route variations, which I plan on incorporating into my map when I can. I imagine if I took a guide / vaquero on this trek, they also might have their own trail variations that they like to use.

Here is from today's download, of the south end, from San Ignacio north, first map:

4x4abc - 10-21-2024 at 07:08 PM