BajaNomad - Catch and release

Catch and release

Arthur - 6-10-2005 at 12:19 PM

What's the most success you can have with catch and release in saltwater? What's the worst? (say, over time, over a good number of fish) Can you expect 50% of the fish to be truly unharmed, or what? I've seen some ugly catches with barbless hooks in fresh water.

Mike Supino - 6-10-2005 at 05:37 PM

I viewed a documentary involving bill fish that were hooked and released.
They also installed tracking devices on the fish.
Less than 1/3 survived more than three days.
After three days the transmitters quit operating.
You can come to your own conclusions.
My take is to not target them at all and to always use heavy tackle to decrease the fight time for better survival.

Dave - 6-10-2005 at 05:52 PM

Sport fishing is sadistic. :fire:

have to agree...

eetdrt88 - 6-10-2005 at 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
Sport fishing is sadistic. :fire:

fish should be left alone unless youre eating them....whats the point of pulling one out just to look at??

I disagree

Skipjack Joe - 6-10-2005 at 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
Sport fishing is sadistic. :fire:

sadism - the getting of pleasure, specifically sexual pleasure, from hurting or mistreating another, others.

I don't think a fisherman's pleasure is related to hurting the fish. It's complicated and overanalyzing it ruins it for me. But it's not sadistic, I can tell you that.

skipjack

Frank - 6-10-2005 at 07:36 PM

With the use of circle hooks and the correct tackle to bring down the fight time its very successful.
Cricle hooks by design will only hook a fish in the corner of the mouth. It requires a different hook set technique.
On a regular J hook, if you wait too long to set the hook the fish can be gut hooked and start to bleed. We keep any bleeders for dinner.
As far as Billfishing and tracking devices, how do they know they didnt survive? Did they find the body? These fish a pelagic, they travel. How do they know if the fish simply went deep? Maybe the tag fell out. Lots of things could of happened.
As a fisherman, I want and need this resource to be healthy. If we {my sons and I} feel we ar doing harm to the resource we change tactics. For instances, last year we were in a wide open Dorado bite. We had dinner already so we clipped off the hooks off of the lures and just enjoyed the fish whacking the lure into the air, over and over again.
Sadistic. Well everyone has a opinion and I respect that. For me it would be Sadistic to keep my off the water and not fishing. It fills a need I have
{a caveman thing}, just like the need we all have to be in Baja and away from "civilization".
Fishing also keeps me grounded and my sons outdoors with there Dad and Grandpa. 3 generations on the water. In the days of Playstation2 and the internet, this is a very needful thing. Frank

yankeeirishman - 6-10-2005 at 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
Sport fishing is sadistic. :fire:

You kidding, right?

pokey - 6-10-2005 at 07:47 PM

Most of the fisherman that I know practice catch & release in fresh water. I'm an avid flyfisherman who enjoys chasing steelhead and salmon in the Pac NW. If I'm fishing a river that has mostly hatchery runs I'll keep as many adipose fin clipped fish that I legally can. If I'm fishing rivers that see mostly wild runs I'll use barbless hooks and limit my fishing time on the river. I suspect that catch & release success rates are low in ocean caught fish due to the depths and amt of fight in the fish.

I use to commercial fish and have worked on the charter boats out of point loma. For some reason folks who fish in the ocean don't share the same catch & release ethic that fresh water sportsman do. Thats been my experience anyways.

Personally if I'm ocean fishing I'm also looking for some fish to put on the stove. So I go after the more easily caught species like tuna or even surf perch. I guess the idea of filleting a 500 lb Marlin isn't what I'd call fun. And, honestly, the idea of killing an ocean predator as magnificent as a marlin or sail fish doesn't appeal to me.

gonetobaja - 6-10-2005 at 08:26 PM

Im gonna have to agree with eetdrt88,

If you are going to harvest a fish from the ocean than do it. But dont go hooking whatever you can just for the fun of it. Athough I am a die hard spearfisherman and eat fish for most of my meals my opinion is that catch and release fishing is only better than catch and kill everything you get fishing. Lets not kid ourselves, how may times have you gut hooked a fish that was too small or not the right species and then "released" it back into the water only to find it belly up 10 feet from the boat 20min later. Alot of ocean fish get very messed up(scientefik term) when you reel them up from depth by their stomach lining. The pressure change alone can kill em. If you dont beleive me try swimming down 30 feet underwater and tell me if your ears feel like someone has got your head in a vice. For fish its the reverse. When they come up from depth alot of the inner workings of the fish get literaly "blown up" from the rapid de-pressureazation(Im a great speller). Im all for eating fish, and selective harvesting from the ocean but the idea of hooking more fish than you can eat only to tire them out and then release them back to the ocean bleeding and spent for an easy meal to predetors dosent sound like the way to go. I like the Idea of getting nailed on the hookless lures, that sounds like fun, and you dont really harm the fish. The only way to selective harvest fish from the ocean in my opinion is by spearfishing. The fishermen(hunter) makes a concious decision to take the fish only after he or she has made sure of the type and size they want for eating. In this manner the harvester is sure that the only thing getting the "shaft"(bad pun) is the actual fish that is getting shot. They die quick and then into the cooler. Nothing else is touched. I am not saying that people should not fish with rod and reel, however I would say that alot of fish die and never make it to a plate as a result of over selous fishermen on a wide open bite playin the catch and release game.

Get in the water and swim with the fish for a while, and at the end of the day if you are hungry, shoot one and eat it. If you have ever untangled an infected seagull wrapped in monofiliment with a fish hook stuck in the side of his beak than you can see my point im my opinion. In baja spearfishing is only legal while freediving(breathold diving with out tanks). This makes it more difficult than scuba spearing. As far as the sailfish catch and release deal, I have seen whats in the water waiting for bleeding sailfish with no energy to get away. Sharks and sealions stalk the shadows of the blue waiting for easy prey. Every fishermen knows the tale of the big fish he had on the line that was "stolen"(joke of a term) by a shark or sea lion. Just the act of hooking a fish puts it at risk in the sea even if you get it to the boat alive and then "let em go..." I dont know if Id call it sadistic though...now if you catch the fish and then beat your friend in the head with and it gives you pleasure then you let it go....now thats sadistic...

Just my unsientefik no-data to bak me up opinon. :lol:

GTB
http://www.spearfishingvideos.com

Dave - 6-10-2005 at 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by yankeeirishman
You kidding, right?

Nope, dead serious.

Mistreatment of any creature solely for one's pleasure is sadistic. If you think it's not mistreatment, try to imagine being on the other end of the line.

And no, I'm not a PETA freak. I both fish and hunt.

roundtuit - 6-10-2005 at 11:36 PM

Gee I hope you folks don't eat bacon, eggs, chicken,steakes or any of those that are raises in pens have have no chance I do

hunting

Skipjack Joe - 6-10-2005 at 11:40 PM

Years ago we had a young married couple over for dinner. The husband enjoyed hunting and his wife was disgusted by the whole thing. They each felt so strongly about it that it just came out during dinner. I silently sided with her until the following exchange, which I still remember:

She: "You just kill because you enjoy killing. Your sport is just a justification to kill"

He: "That's nonsense. If it were like that I would march up to some cow fenced in a coral and just blast it at close range".

"What is moral is what feels good after"

Skipjack Joe - 6-11-2005 at 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
I both fish and hunt.

Dave, my first reaction was "Hah, now I got him. He thinks blood sports are sadistic, but he openly does it".

But now I respect you for this (oh, I know you don't need my respect, but it's there nonetheless). Most people just rationalize and justify their values to meet what they already like and do . The OFF topic section is full of ideologues who search the internet for articles that support their viewpoint. But you are enjoying something and have the courage to question the morality of what you're doing at the same time.

Quote:

Mistreatment of any creature solely for one's pleasure is sadistic.

But I really don't agree with the above statement.

My dad once told me of an encounter he had with the village sadist. This boy was playing with a mouse. He had poked the eyes of the mouse out, one by one, with a needle and was laughing at the spectacle of the blind animal running around and bumping into objects.

This kid was a sadist, a real sadist. This kid had serious problems and would probably grow up to have a criminal mind.

A couple of months ago I read an entry on this board about the boyhood pleasures of castrating squirrels. That, too, I consider sadism.

As a fisherman, however, you don't leave the docks in the morning with the goal to hurt something. Even, when the fish is on the line I never think about hurting it. That's not my intention.

It's a matter of degree. One is an aberration, a mental illness. The other is normal. Yes, it's normal to enjoy the hunt.

If fishing was sadistic then Hemingway and Zane Grey were sadists. Then the nobel prize had been given to an old sadist and his perverted way of life. The world doesn't see it that way.

The idea that people practice catch and release to satisfy a sadistic need is unacceptable to me.

[Edited on 6-11-2005 by Skipjack Joe]

Skipjack Joe - 6-11-2005 at 01:51 AM

Here is the Darwinian way of looking at it all. Our final goal is:

(1) to procreate
(2) we enjoy sex to procreate
(3) we eat to grow up to enjoy sex to procreate
(4) we enjoy eating to eat to grow up to enjoy sex to procreate
(5) we fish to enjoy eating to eat to grow up to enjoy sex to procreate
(6) we enjoy fishing to fish to enjoy eating to eat to grow up to enjoy sex to procreate

The idea is that we are and have been wired to enjoy doing all the things that ultimately lead to offspring. To deny this pleasure, feel guilty about it, call it sadism, is in my mind, to deny what you are.

Well, I said that overanalyzing this thing just ruins it and I 've overanalyzed this thing to death.

[Edited on 6-11-2005 by Skipjack Joe]

Sadistic

baitcast - 6-11-2005 at 07:41 AM

I think not,to fish is to hunt and in the begining we all were hunters,there is a basic need in me to read,to watch,to catch,to enjoy to whole experience.
It is a waste of time to try and explain this to a nonfisherman and I won,t try.
To bait fish is to kill,in the early days it was bait or stay home.
The last 20 or 30 years as given us a huge selection of artificial lures to work with thus eliminating the need for bait which brings about deep hook sets,if you must use bait of one or another use circle hooks.
I for one have not used bait of any kind for many years,true I may not catch as many but that is okay,I,m happy.
File or flatten the barbs,the real ticket is the extraction of the hooks,be carefull!!
To a non fisherman this is just a bunch of babble I know poor thing just does,nt understand
To call my sport sadistic I say get a life.
BAITCAST

When my time comes I hope the old man will let me bring my rod,and the water will be warm and clear

yankeeirishman - 6-11-2005 at 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
Sport fishing is sadistic. :fire:

I think I understand what you satement is about. I c/c a report below. BTW all...I am a fisherman too. I c/c this just for gathing your own thoughts........

Pain

Fishing means intense pain and stress for millions of fish every year. Fish are treated in ways which would cause an outrage if cute, furry creatures were involved - but fish suffer just as much.

Pain begins when the hook pierces the mouth and the fish is reeled in. Many people remove the hook while the fish is still alive. Anyone who has ever had a fish hook stuck in their own flesh needs no convincing that this is extremely painful.

Pain is further increased if large fish are landed with a gaff hook. This large hook on a handle rips into the flesh of the live fish to pull it out of the water.

Livebaiting is another barbaric activity that increases pain. A live small fish is threaded up as bait for larger fish. Here is one description of how to do this, taken from a fishing magazine:

"The needle is passed through the front of the eye socket of both eyes. The material is then pulled through so that the hook sits on the head of the baitfish."
Remember that the baitfish is alive and feels pain, just like a dog or a cat (or indeed a human) would.

Stress

Once out of the water, fish suffocate rather like we do underwater. In their death throes fish writhe, gasping and flapping their gills as they desperately try to get oxygen. Anyone who has ever been unable to breathe even for a short time won't need convincing that this is a terrifying experience.

Intense stress is also caused by livebaiting and "playing" fish on the line, as is done particularly with big game fish such as marlin. Research has compared the behaviour of fish in these two situations with the behaviour of fish in a tank into which alarm substance had been released. Alarm substance is normally released by injured fish. This chemical causes panic in other fish, who flee as quickly as possible. In the experiment, the behaviour produced by the alarm substance was very similar to behaviour produced by livebaiting and game fishing. So, these activities cause panic, like alarm substance, but the fish can't escape and the panic may go on for hours.
Attitudes to Fish

It's hard for fish to arouse our compassion. They can't show their agony by screaming. They don't have the sad eyes of a seal pup or a dog.
In an article in The Adelaide Advertiser, Professor Bill Runciman, professor of anaesthesia and intensive care at Adelaide University, was quoted as saying:

"Fish constitute the greatest source of confused thinking and inconsistency on earth at the moment with respect to pain. You will get people very excited about dolphins because they are mammals, and about horses and dogs, if they are not treated properly. At the same time you will have fishing competitions on the River Murray at which thousands of people snare fish with hooks and allow them to asphyxiate on the banks, which is a fairly uncomfortable and miserable death."
Since fish have the same nerve endings, the same chemicals for transmitting and blocking pain, and the same receptor sites for anxiety-reducing chemicals as mammals, it is absolute nonsense to suggest that fish do not feel pain or fear.

Experiments

Animal experimenters acknowledge that fish feel pain and stress. In one of its newsletters, the Australian Council for the Care of Animals in Research and Teaching advised researchers to reduce the pain and stress suffered by cold-blooded vertebrates (including fish) used in experiments.
The article recommended that: "humane restraint, analgesia and anaesthetic should be adopted whenever necessary. Adequate levels of analgesia reduce apprehension and stress, and decrease or suppress the perception of painful stimuli."

Fish Feel Pain

If fish can't show their pain, how can we know whether they feel pain at all? There is very strong scientific evidence to show that they do.

Fish have nerve endings near the skin which are very similar to those of humans and other mammals. We all have receptor cells (called nociceptors) near the skin, which are stimulated by events severe enough to cause damage to body tissues. The lips and mouth of fish are particularly well supplied with nerve endings.

Fish produce the same pain-transmitting chemicals as humans. There are two main chemicals involved. When a nerve ending is damaged, a substance called bradykinin is released. This causes the nerve cell to fire, sending an electrical impulse along the nerve. When bradykinin is released near the skin, a second chemical, called substance P, is released near the spinal cord.
Both substances are known to be involved in transmitting pain. For example, if bradykinin is injected into humans, it causes intense pain, even if a local anaesthetic is used. Both bradykinin and substance P are found in mammals, birds, frogs and fish.

Fish produce the same pain-blocking substances as humans. When in severe pain, humans and other vertebrates (animals with backbones) produce pain-killing chemicals called endorphins. These endorphins block pain by stopping the release of substance P.
Fish Feel Anxiety

For any chemical to be able to affect our brain, there must be special areas in the brain, called receptor sites, to which the chemical can attach. Fish, like mammals, have receptor sites for anxiety-reducing chemicals, such as the valium group of drugs. Dr Andrew Rowan, a Dean of Veterinary Science, has said: "This suggests that most vertebrates are capable of experiencing a form of anxiety which is physiologically similar to that seen in humans."

What YOU Can Do

Choose ways of relaxing and enjoying the outdoors that do not cause suffering to animals.

If people you know won't give up fishing, at least try to convince them to kill fish as soon as they are pulled from the water, rather than removing hooks while they are still alive and letting them suffocate.

In NSW, fish come under the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act (POCTA). Write to the Minister for Agriculture and say how barbaric you consider gaffing, live-baiting and big-game fishing to be. Say you want them banned as cruel under the provisions of POCTA.

[Edited on 6-11-2005 by yankeeirishman]

TMW - 6-11-2005 at 09:21 AM

Cutting a tomato hurts it and causes it to scream, therefore leave them alone and starve for the good of mankind.

Ken Bondy - 6-11-2005 at 09:25 AM

All of this controversy would be avoided if everyone would just adjust a little and practice catch, filet, and release.

++Ken++

Just kidding, I couldn't resist

backninedan - 6-11-2005 at 09:30 AM

No fishing? Screaming tomatos? Sigh... pass the tofu please.

gonetobaja - 6-11-2005 at 10:31 AM

I thought I liked to spearfish because of the time I spent in the ocean and the experience, not to mention the food.

Now I find out its just because Im horny?

Well sounds like a good reason to me :smug:

, Im leavin tomorrow!!

Its ok to love to fish, just dont "love" the fish.

GTB
"sex crazed fish killer....":moon:

how would you like...

eetdrt88 - 6-11-2005 at 10:40 AM

to reel this up from the ocean floor.....wouldnt that be exciting...nah,i'll take fish any day over tofu :lol:

Is using my dogs

jrbaja - 6-11-2005 at 10:55 AM

for furniture considered sadistic?

Dave - 6-11-2005 at 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
As a fisherman, however, you don't leave the docks in the morning with the goal to hurt something. Even, when the fish is on the line I never think about hurting it. That's not my intention.

It's a matter of degree. One is an aberration, a mental illness. The other is normal. Yes, it's normal to enjoy the hunt.

I think you misunderstand. I said "sport fishing is sadistic" not "sport fishermen are sadistic".

I don't have any problems with the catching part, just releasing.

If you catch it, kill it and eat it or give it to someone who will.

Ever watch bass fishing on TV?

Skipjack Joe - 6-11-2005 at 11:55 AM

Hey, it's a dog-eat-dog world out there.

Dave - 6-11-2005 at 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Hey, it's a dog-eat-dog world out there.

I don't have a problem with that, either. (As long as it's my dog doing the eating.)

Eli - 6-11-2005 at 12:04 PM

Although, I have friends whom I love and respect dearly that do it, I don't for the life of me understand the sport of fishing. I understand fishing to get something to eat, I love to eat fish. I even use to fleete fish for a living. I just don't get the catch and throw back angle of it. Still, like I said, doesn't mean I hold people that do it in any less esteem.

[Edited on 6-11-2005 by Eli]

I agree with Goneto & Dave too

Sharksbaja - 6-11-2005 at 01:03 PM

I never quite understood the philosophy of catch & release.

On one hand the mighty fisherman may catch twenty fish only deciding to keep one nice one, thus saving lives, culling the herd if it were...

On the other hand he is a complete butthead for tramatizing 19 hapless fish. Why? Were they undersized? Were they too small for his ego? Does he feel like a conservationist because he can say he only kept one and released the rest.

I may be breaking the law but if the trout etc. is gut-hooked I keep em regardless of size. I also take care to release any fish lip caught that is not a target fish(fish to eat). I believe most released fresh water fish survive the practice. Ocean fish not as often due to depths and other trauma inducing retrieving. Bill fish, sailfish, marine mammals and all sharks should not be targeted/taken at all. This may seem a radical approach but these Apex predators are so marginal in (many)species numbers that it may take decades to stabilize some species if takes were forbidden today.
I feel I don't pressure the sea much the way I Fish(or dive). I am satisfied to eat damn near anything I land that's edible. Sometimes it doesn't take long to get a fish or two and call it a day. Other times I get to enjoy the day trying, but not connecting. Oh, boo hoo. Either way it makes my day.
It's well known that some large game fish generate large quantities of lactic acid while being traumatized during landing(s). This can induce"shock" in the fish. The other obvious problem with C&R is the animals depleted O2 levels. This is evident and sometimes the animal needs help (from his captor) regaining strength enough to swim off. I have seen them swim off too. Saw them bellyup hours later.
Sportfishing for C&R makes little sense to me. Thank god they don't have vocal chords

We still have to remember WHO is doing the most the damage.

Gill-netters and long-liners who hunt blindly and indiscriminately. A goverment whose enforcement uses horse-blinders, and a general "We could give a f***" attitude by many on all sides of the fence.. Much like we've seen in other places/scenarios where we grew up. Probably why some of us care more than others. :saint:

Skipjack Joe - 6-11-2005 at 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gonetobaja
I thought I liked to spearfish because of the time I spent in the ocean and the experience, not to mention the food.

Now I find out its just because Im horny?

Well sounds like a good reason to me :smug:

, Im leavin tomorrow!!

Its ok to love to fish, just dont "love" the fish.

GTB
"sex crazed fish killer....":moon:

That hilarious GTB, but basically right as evolutionists see it.

You're total net worth in the end is the size of the egg you lay. The bigger the egg, the greater your contribution.

The only value to that experience you had in second grade pulling that girls's pigtails is whether it got you the big egg thirty years later.

The reason we have evolved to enjoy catching fish is because it puts food on the table resulting growth to sexual maturity and finally -- ta da, that all-important egg.

skipjack

Sharksbaja - 6-11-2005 at 01:52 PM

Like I said, I don't understand their particular love for catching fish just to catch fish. These guys are not the big concern regarding fish depletions. Like Whistler said, they work hard at trying to keep the fishery viable. As far as pain and suffering...... I can say I have mixed feelings. There is a proper way to C&R to reduce injury and trauma. Not that we know exactly what a fish personally endures during the event is why I can't say it's a "bad" thing. It certainly is a logical approach to taming or satisfying the thirst of the "hunter" in lieu of killing them.

perfect...

eetdrt88 - 6-11-2005 at 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by whistler
Okay,you guys win.I will kill everything I catch.

then grill it up and throw it in a pan with some butter and limon and youre set :yes:

Sharksbaja - 6-11-2005 at 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eetdrt88

Quote:

Originally posted by whistler
Okay,you guys win.I will kill everything I catch.

then grill it up and throw it in a pan with some butter and limon and youre set :yes:

I strongly disagree. Butter & garlic first. Then a squeeze of lemon

Skipjack Joe - 6-11-2005 at 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Like I said, I don't understand their particular love for catching fish just to catch fish.

Sharks, it's not about the understanding of this pleasure. It's a gut thing. It's not a mental thing. That's why I trust it and cannot change it.

Has your blood ever rushed at the sight of line screaming off the reel when a tuna heads for the horizon? Has your heart stopped at the sight of a marlin tailwalking next to your boat? Have you every held your breath in anticipation of a trout rising to your fly - will he take it or not?

If you haven't had these feelings then it's not your truth. It's my truth and that's why I fish.

Why do we like to fish?

Because of 5 million years of human evolution!

I don't know how else to say it. It's not a right or wrong thing. It's not about being fair or unfair ("What has that innocent thing ever done to you?"). You are what you are and there is no apologizing for it. The lion does not apologize to the gazelle for eating it, nor for the pleasure of chasing it.

skipjack

Osprey - 6-11-2005 at 03:53 PM

Buzzbee International Newsletter

Dear Members; You all knew we would be catching some flack from all over with the announcement of our Second Annual Buzzbee Hummingbird Tournament. This one, June 12 thru 16 in Panama has lit up more boards than I could have guessed.
I expected a lot of noise from the Audubon people, a lot of bird huggers but Ducks Unlimited? Come on!! And the billfish people. I know I have had to mention some striking similarities between our tournaments and theirs in a few of my flyers and editorial pieces.
When they jump on us I send them the standard stuff in reply; a copy of our Certificate of Standardization for our mist nets and our scales. They all know we are after the smallest bird, not the largest and though our prey might be different in that respect, we follow the same kinds of game protection practices they employ ? at times we exceed them. For example we allow no mist netting within 50 feet of a known nesting site.
I have been very clear and vocal with these groups. Yes, some birds are injured, killed in the nets. Yes, some birds are killed, harmed, eaten by raptors, shrikes, even spiders when tournament entrants can?t get to the nets quick enough. To the billfish tournament groups I submit that we lose far fewer birds than they lose billfish (per tournament).

The fishing people have harangued me to death about some things:

A.. Catch and Release, Catch and Release. We release every bird that?s unharmed, able to fly. Always have, Always will.

B. Charitable Contributions. All proceeds of Buzzbee Tournaments International go to charities chosen by the board at our annual meeting in October of each year. In 2001, our first year, we were able to give some $68,000 to several worthwhile causes around the globe.

C. Animal Protection. All the billfish organizations claim that their tournaments aid the fishery, help the fish. I don?t know how that can be. How does catching (harming) fish help the fishery, help the fish? The charity dollars go everywhere except back into the fishery to grow more fish. It seems to me that if you are successful at promoting fishing for billfish, more fish will be caught, killed, injured. The greater your success, the more fish you kill, injure.

Members, take heart. I will continue to keep the record straight with these groups. I?ll update them each time we add another protection service. In February I alerted them about our new rules concerning mandatory net alarms, weighing area enclosure standards, updated feeder placement regulations (including allowable nectar formulae).

Until next time, ?Find the Wee One, Win the Big One?, keep the Bees Buzzin.

Osprey

rpleger - 6-11-2005 at 04:49 PM

Don`t remove the hook.
Cut the line close to the hook.
The hook will desolve in a day or two and the fish will be as healthy as ever.

Catch and release works.

That is simply not true...

Ken Bondy - 6-11-2005 at 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rpleger
The hook will desolve in a day or two and the fish will be as healthy as ever.

Steel is fairly resistant to corrosion when it is fully submerged in salt water. Put a hook in a jar of salt water and see if it is gone in "a day or two".
++Ken++

Frank - 6-11-2005 at 05:46 PM

We only leave the hook in if you will do more harm then good removing it, ex. a deeply hooked fish. We try to only use "bronze" hooks, they rust out but not in a day or two.

Its amazing to me so many of you dont understand the benefits of CPR. I know you want us not to catch the beautiful fish, or is it only if we kill everything we catch. Every pangero/cruiser skipper knows that every fish released is another he can catch again on his next charter. How many of these multi-generation fisherman have switched from commercial gillnetter to fishng guide who uses CPR? Do they not make more $$ taking gringos fishing then gill netting? How much does bird watching, sitting on the beach and hiking help the local economy?

I really doubt Mex 1 would of been paved if it werent for the great fishing.
One more thing. I dont know of anyone who "rockcod" and doesnt keep the fish. {Rockcodding is fishing really deep, when the fish come up they dont survive, they bloat up}. In my fishing circles, the worst thing you can do is waste the resource. If your caught by the wrong person, you could be in for a realy bad day.

Rusty Hooks

baitcast - 6-11-2005 at 06:05 PM

Ken was being nice.more like a year or two if not more,the hooks of today are made of fine materials and will last forever.
I can just picture myself cutting the line off an 8$ jig or plug rather than carefully extracting a hook or two.
It has made me wonder in the case of billfish,while watching off shore fishing you see them cut the line all the time when they bring the fish alongside,how do they know the hook placement unless its in the mouth or bill?

Frank - 6-11-2005 at 06:12 PM

You will see them cut the line if the fish was caught on live bait, not a marlin jig. Most guys are using circle hooks which 99% of the time gets the fish in the corner of the mouth. Usually the wire man, if he is good will be able to bill the fish and remove the hook. Marlin also have the ability to invert thier stomachs to expell anything that wasnt good to eat, they then just swallow it back down.

Dave - 6-11-2005 at 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Frank
Every pangero/cruiser skipper knows that every fish released is another he can catch again on his next charter.

I'd like to think that this perfectly illustrates my point.

Frank - 6-11-2005 at 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Im confused.

bajaden - 6-11-2005 at 08:14 PM

Next thing you know we'll be talking about the Lobster and the boiling water. God help us.........

Its no fun having a battle of wits with unarmed people.......

are you kidding..

Sharksbaja - 6-11-2005 at 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Like I said, I don't understand their particular love for catching fish just to catch fish.

I grew up fishing the Kern plateau with a Fenwick in my hands. My parents called me Issac Walton Jr. as a kid. In fact I would nearly always outfish my dad who grew up with a split-bamboo(I still own his) flyrod in his. Thing is we always have and always will eat ALL the fish with few exceptions. I know how many fish I kill anyway.

I know the thrill and I love to play and land fish, to eat.
It's the way I was raised.

Skipjack Joe - 6-12-2005 at 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja
I know the thrill and I love to play and land fish, to eat.
It's the way I was raised.

I know, I know Sharks. I came on too strong on that one. My apologies.

It's just that I made 3 posts explaining why fishermen like to fish, and therefore, pracitice catch and release and yet posters still say they don't understand why. It's clear in my mind. But it may not be how everyone else sees it.

JZ - 6-12-2005 at 07:39 AM

Catch and release is bad.

Skipjack Joe - 6-12-2005 at 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
Ever watch bass fishing on TV?

I'm with you on this one Dave. Although, not as a sadistic event.

Those bass tournaments on ESPN on Saturday mornings really miss the mark for me. Fishing at it's is best is a lonely, contemplative affair. One that involves searching and discovery. It's you and the natural world out there. You're looking for clues and finding many of nature's secrets in the process. It's a personal thing.

The guys on these tournaments are so pumped up with a sense of competition that it drowns out the best thrills that come along with fishing. The fish are yanked out of the water and come flying along the surface so the hook won't come out. The guys are racing from one end of the lake to another. It's a slam bam thank you ma'am affair. Then there's that ridiculous weigh in at the end where they hold these bewildered fish high over their heads to the applauding people below. It looks barbaric. And has little to do fishing in my mind.

Actually I have never found a movie or television show that well conveys the emotions and thrills of fishing. I don't know why that's so hard to do. Writers have done it well for years. I couldn't put Zane Grey's 'Tales of Fishes' down when I read it 40 years ago. And Thomas McGuane's 'An Outside Chance' is the best that I have ever read on this.

But movies ... they leave me feeling flat and disappointed. At the end I always feel like - "That's not what it's like at all'. The TV shows usually involve a couple of guys casually talking and fishing at the same time. A few jokes, here and there, high fives at the end. Then there's the instructional stuff. Even the 'Old man and the sea' made the whole experience look like pain and work and courage. The only scene I can think of that shows a part of the essence of fishing was in 'A River runs through it'. Where the guy pursues his fish into the rapids, takes a dunking, and you only see the top of his rod in the process.

I don,t understand

baitcast - 6-12-2005 at 08:05 AM

I just drove 5 or 6 hundred miles,put the boat in the water,and have my limit by 8 am,say two fish,sharks do you mean now we should call it a day and go back to camp?
I love to eat fish but the catching is 80% with me and most people I,ve fished with,its all very clear for me.
BAITCAST

fishing the "Plateau"

Sharksbaja - 6-13-2005 at 12:53 AM

As a youngster I was dragged repeatedly to the High Sierras to conquer summits, passes, glacially-carved lakes and a plethora of crystal clear streams. Fishing the southern raeches of the Kern Plateau required 4X4 to get back in. Leaving the gravel road at Toms' Place (upper Kern River) we would travel north on a very challenging jeep road. It lead to Menache Meadows some 40 miles and 7 hrs later. A beautiful high alpine meadow with a couple cabins and a tiny airstrip. From there another 10 or so miles to the end of the jeep road then backpack to many locations. The beautiful golden trout were very impressive and some high lakes had LARGE goldens. Logging roads opened up the area in the early 80s and I stopped going there. The goldens we caught were typically caught on yellow-jacket flies. I have also caught many crossbred goldens with red meat. I think rainbow/golden mix. The stupid aerial stocking of high lakes many years ago contributed in the watering down of the original (pure)stocks in some lakes. At the time they claimed they had no data, so therefore they...........idiots!

I have pretty much hiked the entire John Muir trail with many deviations and many leg and shoulder aches. I also did much back country dirtbiking when that was allowed on designated trails. WOW was that an experience!

bajaden - 6-14-2005 at 10:50 PM

I used to fish the Owens river near Bishop. There is a stretch of the river that is catch and release only. I never fished it because all too often trout swallow the hook and its near impossible to remove it without gutting them. I think the catch and release policy is a good idea, but like most ideas its not perfect. I think the idea is, that we fisherman do everything possible to insure that the habitat is protected. It may not be a perfect plan, but its better than decorating our walls with them. I was on a charter boat out of cabo a few years ago and a fellow caught a marlin. The captain suggested he release it, but he wanted a trophy. What a waste.

"The Gorge"

Sharksbaja - 6-14-2005 at 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaden
I used to fish the Owens river near Bishop. There is a stretch of the river that is catch and release only. I never fished it because all too often trout swallow the hook and its near impossible to remove it without gutting them. I think the catch and release policy is a good idea, but like most ideas its not perfect. .

Fresh water hooks typically are made of high carbon steel and rust out eventually. I will say however I have caught zero fish with leftover hooks nowhere but the lip..

I think I fished every river, creek,stream and lake on the east High Sierra. WE would hike down the "Gorge" some 1500 ft below to fish for huge "German Browns" up to 20+ lbs. We could actually see them from the cliffsides way up top and they looked like small subs. We caught some nice trout there but never the granddaddies. Small world BD!

jerry - 6-15-2005 at 07:25 AM

i only catch the dumb fish so the survival of the fittest will continue and the smartest will propagate
dont worry be happy jerry

bajaden - 6-16-2005 at 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaden[/

I think I fished every river, creek,stream and lake on the east High Sierra. WE would hike down the "Gorge" some 1500 ft below to fish for huge "German Browns" up to 20+ lbs. We could actually see them from the cliffsides way up top and they looked like small subs. We caught some nice trout there but never the granddaddies. Small world BD!

I never caught a 20 pounder but I caught a lot of 5 to 8 pound browns. Did you ever fish Crowley or Convict?. Funny thing about the Owens is that if go to the right places you have it all to yourself. Great fishing....

Skipjack Joe - 6-17-2005 at 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by whistler
It's not about catching ,It's about fishing.I guess it's the challenge of trying to outsmart something with the brain the size of a pea.

Whistler, I came across this recently about how Florida permit guides feel about their clients.

I once asked one who specialized in permit if he liked fishing for them. "Yes, I do," he said reservedly, "but about the third time the customer asks, 'Is they good to eat?' I begin losing interest.