BajaNomad - Expat superiority complex

Expat superiority complex

rogerj1 - 7-16-2005 at 05:52 PM

I've been thinking lately about the arrogance I run into posting on boards frequented by expats living in Mexico. There's a notion certain people possess that someone who's lived their whole life in the US should abandon everything they're used to when first moving to Mexico and live amongst the locals. Isn't it only natural that someone moving to a foreign country would seek out something familiar? Do Mexicans moving to the states need to be concerned about this? Are they not trying hard enough to fit in? I don't get it.

What's wrong with the idea of living near people who speak your language?

[Edited on 7-17-2005 by rogerj1]

It all boils down to

jrbaja - 7-16-2005 at 05:56 PM

how much you want to pay for stuff. :lol:

something unpatriotic....

Sharksbaja - 7-16-2005 at 05:59 PM

is what comes to mind, in both instances.

Bruce R Leech - 7-16-2005 at 05:59 PM

and who you want to fit in with :lol:

Bruce R Leech - 7-16-2005 at 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rogerj1
I've been thinking lately about the arrogance I run into posting on boards frequented by expats living in Mexico. There's a notion certain people possess that someone who's lived their whole life in the US should abandon everything they're used to when first moving to Mexico and live amongst the locals. Isn't it only natural that someone moving to a foreign country would seek out something familiar? Do Mexicans moving to the states need to be concerned about this? Are they not trying hard enough to fit in? I don't get it.

What's wrong with the idea of living near people who speak your language?

[Edited on 7-17-2005 by rogerj1]

everyone thinks there lifestyle is the best and will tell you to try to live as they do. it is a mater of choice on your part.

1st figure why it is you want to live there.

2nd decide what type of people you want to live around and associate with.

3ed know your budget.

4th explore a little and find out what part you want to live in.

5th rent something in that aria for a wile and see if you can live with it .

there are communities here in Baja Sur. that you cant get in for Les than 2,000,000.00 dollars and also I can find you a turnkey titled house with all utilities for 10,000 dollars.

but I really recommend that if you don't really love the Mexican people and cultures don't move down here.

have fun and enjoy Baja

TMW - 7-16-2005 at 07:01 PM

I don't think most Americans that move to Baja live amongst the locals. They buy or rent into areas where other Americans live. Sure there are Mexicans not far away. If your neighbor is a Mexican, he's probably spent the last 10-20 years in the U.S. getting the money to buy the house next to you.

I don't think it has as much to do with who your neighbor is as it has to do with your mingling with or involvement with the community which you live. If you have a house on the ocean with Americans around you and your never really in contact with the Mexican community near you, then I think
your being the bad neighbor JR talks about. If on the other hand your into the community helping with school and hospital drives and helping to feed and cloth the needy and many other things that benefit the community your being a good neighbor. That can be said no matter which side of the border you live on.

Eli - 7-16-2005 at 07:27 PM

I have found it to be natural for one to gravate to like mind and life style. State side, folks from Mexico or Vietnam or where ever move into neighborhoods of like culture and background. Why would it not be the same for retired folks coming from the states into Mexico?

Me personaly, If it be in Baja or Oaxaca, I walk amongst but don't fit 100% in either culture, I get by fine, and everyone treats me with respect and kindness, I have no complaints.

Ah but, I feel like I belong snug good fit in the art studio here in Oaxaca and I belong just fine in my home behind the gate at Esquina de La Luna in L.B.. Guess these little holes in the wall are where my niche truly is. Which, by the way, is plenty good enough for me.

Attitude

jrbaja - 7-16-2005 at 11:00 PM

This is so wrong! "If your neighbor is a Mexican, he's probably spent the last 10-20 years in the U.S. getting the money to buy the house next to you."
He/She would then be a chicano more than likely. That is different.
For those who think that all of the Mexican population is poor, :lol:

.
The ones who have money are just aware of an entire world out there, and their first and foremost goal is most certainly not to live next door to an american, especially in america! :light:

rogerj1 - 7-16-2005 at 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce R Leech

but I really recommend that if you don't really love the Mexican people and cultures don't move down here.

How did you come up with this from what I wrote? It couldn't be farther from the truth. I fell in love with Mexicans when I lived there before. Yet, there were times when I wanted to be back in familiar surroundings. I remember how much I craved a good hamburger.

pokey - 7-16-2005 at 11:57 PM

I don't know man....Maybe folks just feel good that their able to integrate themselves enough into a foreign society that their able to get $$ discounts at the mechanic's.

Proud of a skill?

Sharksbaja - 7-17-2005 at 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TW
I don't think most Americans that move to Baja live amongst the locals. They buy or rent into areas where other Americans live. Sure there are Mexicans not far away. If your neighbor is a Mexican, he's probably spent the last 10-20 years in the U.S. getting the money to buy the house next to you.

I don't think it has as much to do with who your neighbor is as it has to do with your mingling with or involvement with the community which you live. If you have a house on the ocean with Americans around you and your never really in contact with the Mexican community near you, then I think
your being the bad neighbor JR talks about. If on the other hand your into the community helping with school and hospital drives and helping to feed and cloth the needy and many other things that benefit the community your being a good neighbor. That can be said no matter which side of the border you live on.

Gee TW, that's a pretty narrow definition of a "p*nce gringos" enclave attitude. Not everyone who owns a home has the same mindset and attitudes not to mention all the other differences. In those "gringo enclaves" you might find that some love their home, their neighbors(whoever they are) and the whole place in general............but many don't. It isn't all lovey dovey between these full-tiime residents and they manage to conduct games and gossip amongst themselves and alienate themselves from . Like a typical small town in U.S. Problem is.....it's not. These people generally make fools of themselves and it isn't hard to spot instigators with their overzealous gossip. They reside pretty much everywhere as long as they can feel safe with like residents. Those are some of the folks JR refers to. The house we bought we bought from a Mexican. Does that still make it wrong to live there? I'm confused? Please don't judge thy neighbor so quickly. Their are many ways to give back to the Mexican community. Hiring local workers is one example. I just stay the course and paint my own life thank you,. and give respect where respect is due. My neighbors are just there......sometimes. My agenda changes and evolves, theirs may not.

yep!

mike odell - 7-18-2005 at 12:08 AM

Good thoughts all of you!
Not gonna get an arguement outta me!

Why cant people....

Hook - 7-18-2005 at 09:56 AM

...simply live the lifestyle they choose when they move to a foreign country; be it in an ex-pat enclave or co-habitating with the locals?

Even if the ex-pats choose to do NOTHING in the way of overt charitable activities, the dollars they spend will provide a benefit to the local community.

Besides, it's local landowners that MARKET their developments to foreigners, in many cases. I expect sales are much better, geared towards foreigners.

Is it any surprise that Mexican nationals moving north across the border also form enclaves like in Santa Ana, Chula Vista, Indio, etc? People feel comfortable being around like people.

This is a non-issue; let people do what they want as long as they don't harm others or break the law. If a gringo wants to drink himself into oblivion down there in an enclave, let him. If a gringa wants to live amongst the poor locals and dedicate every waking hour to a clinica, let her.

Governments seem so gosh darnn intent on engineering us socially as people; why increase the pressure further as members of peer groups? It just promotes friction.

Live and let live.

Sharksbaja - 7-18-2005 at 11:22 AM

I concur Hook.

DanO - 7-18-2005 at 05:53 PM

If people all made the same choices in life, we'd have no standard of "unacceptable" behavior against which to measure our own conduct. We need diversity, and each person should be free to live how he or she wants, as long as it doesn't involve harm to others. This does not and should not prevent us from being critical of others' choices. Like it or not, it is just a basic human characteristic to disagree with other people and make your opinions known.

Sharksbaja - 7-18-2005 at 06:34 PM

10-4 Dano

yankeeirishman - 7-18-2005 at 08:31 PM

I found a Campos where everyone was outright freindly. We bought in. That was my only requirement for settlement in Baja.

There's a notion certain people possess that someone who's lived their whole life in the US should abandon everything they're used to when first moving to Mexico and live amongst the locals.

Sharksbaja - 7-18-2005 at 08:48 PM

Some would like to be assimilated, no question. Some would/will not. Whatever makes you happy and a better person should be major considerations however the choices and reasons for living there are many. I don't just see this either/or stuff but I am sure many categories exist. Hopefully a person would fall into a category that compliments Baja.

Dave - 7-18-2005 at 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DanO
each person should be free to live how he or she wants, as long as it doesn't involve harm to others. This does not and should not prevent us from being critical of others' choices.

The reality is that unless one lives a totally isolated existence, all behavior, both good and bad, affects others. Libertarinism is a flawed philosophy.

Sharksbaja - 7-18-2005 at 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

The reality is that unless one lives a totally isolated existence, all behavior, both good and bad, affects others. Libertarinism is a flawed philosophy.

And that's not all it is.

For those who need to know...... but this is only part of the Liberatarian philosophy. They share by philosophy with Carl Marx, John Locke, Thomas Jefferson and other founders.

def:
Libertarianism is a political philosophy that advocates the maximization of liberty for every individual. In its ideal sense, this position entails that no individual may act to diminish the liberty of any other individual, so that every individual possesses equal liberty. This is usually taken to mean that each person should be permitted by all other persons (including persons acting on behalf of governments) to act as they please so long as they do not initiate physical force.

And...

Libertarianism denies that there is any significant difference between capital surplus and social surplus: it claims that all improvements to productivity are capital surplus and belong to the individual. Libertarianism further contends that by paying for inputs, an individual has already paid for the social cost of their activity, and that to avoid disutility, individuals will rationally trade effects of economic activity that are adverse. Libertarians, therefore, generally believe in an absolute standard of value, generally the gold standard.

Good point Dave.

rogerj1 - 7-19-2005 at 12:37 AM

Hey! Don't hijack my thread with a political flame war. You boys take it outside! :lol:

Bruce R Leech - 7-19-2005 at 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rogerj1
Hey! Don't hijack my thread with a political flame war. You boys take it outside! :lol:

I t is a natural phenomena that all threads good enough to receive many replies start to meander at about 20 posts. I really don't see any flaming here though.

back to the point

there has always been a grope of people here simply because it is a cheep place to retire and some of these people don't even like Mexicans and go around compiling all the time about the local people. this is the only grope that I really object to.

To Dave, I would say.....

Hook - 7-19-2005 at 10:04 AM

.....that your complaints about Libertarianism at it's extreme doesn't negate it from being an honorable influence to embrace. In the same way that communism as an extreme example of socialism won't work, a purely libertarian society might be too chaotic. Yet there are socialized aspects of our society that have worked quite well (roads, utilities, police and fire). And a generally laisse-faire attitude towards businesses has given us an enviable economy and degree of wealth.

Our world (indeed, our country) is a compromise of various degrees of several political theories including socialism. My belief is that the world needs a greater percentage of libertarianism than it does socialism right now.

Freedom is disappearing everywhere. Time for a libertarian backlash that, admittedly, will never achieve the complete libertarian society that you seem to fear. But it beats the alternatives.

I prefer to call myself a Pragmatarian.

DanO - 7-19-2005 at 10:30 AM

Hey Bruce, I've never objected to a grope, but my wife has. Heh.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

PacO - 7-19-2005 at 12:42 PM

And what exactly is this grope compiling?

capn.sharky - 7-19-2005 at 03:57 PM

Roger1---When in Rome....You should at least try to learn the language in Mexico. To me, it seems that if you want to spend alot of time in a foreign enviornment, you should learn the customs and the language. You will learn alot from the mexicans and will learn very little from the americans. Just my humble opinion. I prefer the mexicans and find they are just like us in most ways. In many ways they are better. Their outlook on life is so much different than ours. Anyway, do as you see fit and don't pay any attention to this old fool.

rogerj1 - 7-19-2005 at 08:34 PM

Sharky, Si es verdad. No me gusto los P-nche gringos.

Rogelio