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rogerj1
Nomad
Posts: 265
Registered: 4-29-2004
Location: Gig Harbor, WA
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Expat superiority complex
I've been thinking lately about the arrogance I run into posting on boards frequented by expats living in Mexico. There's a notion certain people
possess that someone who's lived their whole life in the US should abandon everything they're used to when first moving to Mexico and live amongst the
locals. Isn't it only natural that someone moving to a foreign country would seek out something familiar? Do Mexicans moving to the states need to be
concerned about this? Are they not trying hard enough to fit in? I don't get it.
What's wrong with the idea of living near people who speak your language?
[Edited on 7-17-2005 by rogerj1]
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jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4863
Registered: 2-2-2003
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It all boils down to
how much you want to pay for stuff.
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Sharksbaja
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Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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something unpatriotic....
is what comes to mind, in both instances.
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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
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Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
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and who you want to fit in with
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
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Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
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| Quote: | Originally posted by rogerj1
I've been thinking lately about the arrogance I run into posting on boards frequented by expats living in Mexico. There's a notion certain people
possess that someone who's lived their whole life in the US should abandon everything they're used to when first moving to Mexico and live amongst the
locals. Isn't it only natural that someone moving to a foreign country would seek out something familiar? Do Mexicans moving to the states need to be
concerned about this? Are they not trying hard enough to fit in? I don't get it.
What's wrong with the idea of living near people who speak your language?
[Edited on 7-17-2005 by rogerj1] |
everyone thinks there lifestyle is the best and will tell you to try to live as they do. it is a mater of choice on your part.
1st figure why it is you want to live there.
2nd decide what type of people you want to live around and associate with.
3ed know your budget.
4th explore a little and find out what part you want to live in.
5th rent something in that aria for a wile and see if you can live with it .
there are communities here in Baja Sur. that you cant get in for Les than 2,000,000.00 dollars and also I can find you a turnkey titled house with all
utilities for 10,000 dollars.
but I really recommend that if you don't really love the Mexican people and cultures don't move down here.
have fun and enjoy Baja
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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TMW
Select Nomad
Posts: 10659
Registered: 9-1-2003
Location: Bakersfield, CA
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I don't think most Americans that move to Baja live amongst the locals. They buy or rent into areas where other Americans live. Sure there are
Mexicans not far away. If your neighbor is a Mexican, he's probably spent the last 10-20 years in the U.S. getting the money to buy the house next to
you.
I don't think it has as much to do with who your neighbor is as it has to do with your mingling with or involvement with the community which you live.
If you have a house on the ocean with Americans around you and your never really in contact with the Mexican community near you, then I think
your being the bad neighbor JR talks about. If on the other hand your into the community helping with school and hospital drives and helping to feed
and cloth the needy and many other things that benefit the community your being a good neighbor. That can be said no matter which side of the border
you live on.
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Eli
Super Nomad
Posts: 1471
Registered: 8-26-2003
Location: L.B. Baja Sur
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Mood: Some times Observing, sometimes Oblivious.
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I have found it to be natural for one to gravate to like mind and life style. State side, folks from Mexico or Vietnam or where ever move into
neighborhoods of like culture and background. Why would it not be the same for retired folks coming from the states into Mexico?
Me personaly, If it be in Baja or Oaxaca, I walk amongst but don't fit 100% in either culture, I get by fine, and everyone treats me with respect and
kindness, I have no complaints.
Ah but, I feel like I belong snug good fit in the art studio here in Oaxaca and I belong just fine in my home behind the gate at Esquina de La Luna in
L.B.. Guess these little holes in the wall are where my niche truly is. Which, by the way, is plenty good enough for me.
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jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
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Attitude
This is so wrong! "If your neighbor is a Mexican, he's probably spent the last 10-20 years in the U.S. getting the money to buy the house next to
you."
He/She would then be a chicano more than likely. That is different.
For those who think that all of the Mexican population is poor, .
The ones who have money are just aware of an entire world out there, and their first and foremost goal is most certainly not to live next door to an
american, especially in america!
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rogerj1
Nomad
Posts: 265
Registered: 4-29-2004
Location: Gig Harbor, WA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
but I really recommend that if you don't really love the Mexican people and cultures don't move down here.
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How did you come up with this from what I wrote? It couldn't be farther from the truth. I fell in love with Mexicans when I lived there before. Yet,
there were times when I wanted to be back in familiar surroundings. I remember how much I craved a good hamburger.
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pokey
Nomad
Posts: 199
Registered: 5-20-2005
Location: ensenada
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Mood: sun burned
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I don't know man....Maybe folks just feel good that their able to integrate themselves enough into a foreign society that their able to get $$
discounts at the mechanic's.
Proud of a skill?
Keep Mexico weird
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by TW
I don't think most Americans that move to Baja live amongst the locals. They buy or rent into areas where other Americans live. Sure there are
Mexicans not far away. If your neighbor is a Mexican, he's probably spent the last 10-20 years in the U.S. getting the money to buy the house next to
you.
I don't think it has as much to do with who your neighbor is as it has to do with your mingling with or involvement with the community which you live.
If you have a house on the ocean with Americans around you and your never really in contact with the Mexican community near you, then I think
your being the bad neighbor JR talks about. If on the other hand your into the community helping with school and hospital drives and helping to feed
and cloth the needy and many other things that benefit the community your being a good neighbor. That can be said no matter which side of the border
you live on. |
Gee TW, that's a pretty narrow definition of a "p*nce gringos" enclave attitude. Not everyone who owns a home has the same mindset and attitudes not
to mention all the other differences. In those "gringo enclaves" you might find that some love their home, their neighbors(whoever they are) and the
whole place in general............but many don't. It isn't all lovey dovey between these full-tiime residents and they manage to conduct games and
gossip amongst themselves and alienate themselves from . Like a typical small town in U.S. Problem is.....it's not. These people generally make fools
of themselves and it isn't hard to spot instigators with their overzealous gossip. They reside pretty much everywhere as long as they can feel safe
with like residents. Those are some of the folks JR refers to. The house we bought we bought from a Mexican. Does that still make it wrong to live
there? I'm confused? Please don't judge thy neighbor so quickly. Their are many ways to give back to the Mexican community. Hiring local workers is
one example. I just stay the course and paint my own life thank you,. and give respect where respect is due. My neighbors are just
there......sometimes. My agenda changes and evolves, theirs may not.
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mike odell
Nomad
Posts: 267
Registered: 12-17-2002
Location: La Ribera BCS
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yep!
Good thoughts all of you!
Not gonna get an arguement outta me!
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Hook
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9010
Registered: 3-13-2004
Location: Sonora
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Mood: Inquisitive
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Why cant people....
...simply live the lifestyle they choose when they move to a foreign country; be it in an ex-pat enclave or co-habitating with the locals?
Even if the ex-pats choose to do NOTHING in the way of overt charitable activities, the dollars they spend will provide a benefit to the local
community.
Besides, it's local landowners that MARKET their developments to foreigners, in many cases. I expect sales are much better, geared towards foreigners.
Is it any surprise that Mexican nationals moving north across the border also form enclaves like in Santa Ana, Chula Vista, Indio, etc? People feel
comfortable being around like people.
This is a non-issue; let people do what they want as long as they don't harm others or break the law. If a gringo wants to drink himself into oblivion
down there in an enclave, let him. If a gringa wants to live amongst the poor locals and dedicate every waking hour to a clinica, let her.
Governments seem so gosh darnn intent on engineering us socially as people; why increase the pressure further as members of peer groups? It just
promotes friction.
Live and let live.
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
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Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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I concur Hook.
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DanO
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Location: Not far from the Pacific
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If people all made the same choices in life, we'd have no standard of "unacceptable" behavior against which to measure our own conduct. We need
diversity, and each person should be free to live how he or she wants, as long as it doesn't involve harm to others. This does not and should not
prevent us from being critical of others' choices. Like it or not, it is just a basic human characteristic to disagree with other people and make
your opinions known.
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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10-4 Dano
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yankeeirishman
Banned
Posts: 1070
Registered: 3-5-2004
Location: Kalifornia
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I found a Campos where everyone was outright freindly. We bought in. That was my only requirement for settlement in Baja.
There's a notion certain people possess that someone who's lived their whole life in the US should abandon everything they're used to when first
moving to Mexico and live amongst the locals.
What control freaks there are here. Don\'t believe that post you just read!
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
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Some would like to be assimilated, no question. Some would/will not. Whatever makes you happy and a better person should be major considerations
however the choices and reasons for living there are many. I don't just see this either/or stuff but I am sure many categories exist. Hopefully a
person would fall into a category that compliments Baja.
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Dave
Elite Nomad
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Registered: 11-5-2002
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DanO
each person should be free to live how he or she wants, as long as it doesn't involve harm to others. This does not and should not prevent us
from being critical of others' choices. |
The reality is that unless one lives a totally isolated existence, all behavior, both good and bad, affects others. Libertarinism is a flawed
philosophy.
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
| Quote: | Originally posted by DanO
each person should be free to live how he or she wants, as long as it doesn't involve harm to others. This does not and should not prevent us
from being critical of others' choices. |
The reality is that unless one lives a totally isolated existence, all behavior, both good and bad, affects others. Libertarinism is a flawed
philosophy. |
And that's not all it is.
For those who need to know...... but this is only part of the Liberatarian philosophy. They share by philosophy with Carl Marx, John Locke, Thomas
Jefferson and other founders.
def:
Libertarianism is a political philosophy that advocates the maximization of liberty for every individual. In its ideal sense, this position entails
that no individual may act to diminish the liberty of any other individual, so that every individual possesses equal liberty. This is usually taken to
mean that each person should be permitted by all other persons (including persons acting on behalf of governments) to act as they please so long as
they do not initiate physical force.
And...
Libertarianism denies that there is any significant difference between capital surplus and social surplus: it claims that all improvements to
productivity are capital surplus and belong to the individual. Libertarianism further contends that by paying for inputs, an individual has already
paid for the social cost of their activity, and that to avoid disutility, individuals will rationally trade effects of economic activity that are
adverse. Libertarians, therefore, generally believe in an absolute standard of value, generally the gold standard.
Good point Dave.
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