BajaNomad - 20 year old San Diego woman dies in Ensenada

20 year old San Diego woman dies in Ensenada

sylens - 8-26-2005 at 05:56 PM

apparently she was related to mayor cesar mancillas's family. story first was she suicided and the press went to town identifying where the bruising was--lower back of the head...pretty hard to self inflict. trust/confidence in cops here is plummeting further than ever and it was never high.
lili

Suicide by Cop

MrBillM - 8-26-2005 at 06:18 PM

If, in fact, she was resisting lawful arrest, she alone is responsible for her death.

Bruce R Leech - 8-26-2005 at 06:35 PM

well yea but don't you think that police could arrest a girl a little more professionally than that. :no:

lucky for the police that her name wasn't Natalie

[Edited on 8-27-2005 by Bruce R Leech]

comitan - 8-26-2005 at 06:37 PM

The women had a mental problem.

Natalie Ann - 8-26-2005 at 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
well yea but don't you think that police could arrest a girl a little more professionally than that. :no:

lucky for the police that her name wasn't Natalie

[Edited on 8-27-2005 by Bruce R Leech]

Bruce - May I assume you're talking about the missing in Aruba as opposed to your fellow Nomad? Or... :?:

Bruce R Leech - 8-26-2005 at 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by comitan
The women had a mental problem.

yes and even more now

yes Natalie Ann you are right :lol:

[Edited on 8-27-2005 by Bruce R Leech]

PacO - 8-26-2005 at 08:26 PM

It's all about training. That, and giving a chit. Besides, how many 20 year olds have their chit even remotely together as far as how to act towards authority let alone the totality of life. Except MrBillM, of course.
North of the border we have multiple classes on how to restrain an uncooperative person, it's really not difficult at all and usually takes only a pressure point or two. I can only guess w/the pay scales south of the border that the training might not be too intensive in that regard.

The Sculpin - 8-26-2005 at 09:52 PM

Let me see if I understand you, Comitan....

Since she had a mental problem, she somehow had what happened coming to her, or
Since she had a mental problem, it's OK for cops to use different and more novel ways of restraint, or
Since she had a mental problem, why are we even discussing this, or
are you just throwing out chum to see who bites (gulp), or
well.......I, as well as many other Nomads sure have been accused at one time in our lives of having a mental problem, therefore, we all deserve what we get from the authorities???

Help me out here, bud......

Anonymous - 8-26-2005 at 11:20 PM

I agree, Comitan. Perhaps you should think your response through a little more thoroughly next time.

Anonymous - 8-26-2005 at 11:21 PM

Two comments:

- MrBillM statements are insensitive and out of line
- any jokes on this thread are insensitive

JZ - 8-26-2005 at 11:29 PM

The last statement was from me, sorry, didn't notice I wasn't logged in.

Regarding Comitan statements, I cannot comment, they are ambigous. Remember his came after MrBillM's ******* comments, and could be interpreted as saying we should take that into consideration in why she acted as she did and the polica should have been more sensitive. Or it could be saying something else, that is not so good (like Sculpin is saying). But, I tend to doubt the latter. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Edited on 8-27-2005 by BajaNomad]

Officers Probed in Woman's Death

Anonymous - 8-27-2005 at 02:24 AM

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-irvine27aug27,1,4996...

Ensenada police say the Irvine student killed herself in her cell, but prosecutors dispute their version of the events Aug. 9.

By Mai Tran and H.G. Reza, Times Staff Writers
August 27, 2005

Nine Ensenada police officers are being investigated regarding their alleged involvement in the fate of an Irvine college student who died this month while in their custody, Mexican officials said Friday.

The investigation is expected to wrap up next week, and the findings will be forwarded to a judge for review, said Rosa Isela, a spokeswoman for the prosecutor's office in Ensenada.

No one has been arrested or charged in the death of Pauline Del Carmen Baeza-Saucedo, 20, of Irvine who, according to Isela, died Aug. 9 from a skull fracture when her head hit the jail floor. Authorities are dismissing an earlier account by Ensenada police that the woman had committed suicide in her cell, Isela said.

"We believe that she was dropped as the officers carried her into the cell," Isela said in a telephone interview.

On Aug. 8, Baeza-Saucedo was trying to "kill time" in Mexico while waiting for relatives to arrive at their San Diego home, said her mother, Carmen Saucedo. The young woman often traveled with friends to attend concerts in Rosarito, her mother said, but this was the first time she'd been to Ensenada.

Family members and authorities said they don't know what she was doing or who she was with when she arrived in Ensenada. But on Aug. 9, Isela said, Baeza-Saucedo was found sleeping in a vehicle at a used-car lot near downtown. According to the police report, she said, Baeza-Saucedo appeared drugged as officers arrived and she became combative when they attempted to take her into custody.

According to a statement issued by prosecutors Friday, police told investigators that Baeza-Saucedo began hitting her head against the window and side of the car as they attempted to pull her from it.

Isela said investigators could not substantiate the police version of events. And a video, she said, showed that Baeza-Saucedo was not aggressive or resisting arrest when she was brought to police headquarters. Police told investigators that they later ? at 11:15 p.m. ? discovered her lying on the floor inside her cell and called for medical help.

Toxicology tests performed at the time of the autopsy showed that Baeza-Saucedo had drugs in her system "consistent" with methamphetamine, Isela said.

Saucedo said her daughter suffered from a bipolar medical condition and may have been disoriented because she had temporarily stopped taking her medication."I'm sure it had a lot to do with her disorientation," Saucedo said. "That's one of the side effects of not taking the medication. She probably didn't even know she was in Ensenada. She was probably scared, stressed and lost her equilibrium."

Saucedo said she was upset with Ensenada police, who she believed could have saved her daughter's life by promptly calling paramedics.

"She would have been alive," the mother said.

Bruce R Leech - 8-27-2005 at 06:55 AM

Santiago they are going to tare you up for that one. and I'm going to watch.

if I were you I would delete that post.

comitan - 8-27-2005 at 07:08 AM

My reply was in reference to MrBillM's post, basically saying she had no control over her actions. Nothing implied as to the actions of the police. Which I think has been expressed well by other posts.

Bruce R Leech - 8-27-2005 at 07:11 AM

Santiago you are a smart person :bounce:

Anonymous - 8-27-2005 at 07:47 AM

Smugness and projection are unattractive traits.

I wonder about people like that's parents, and what they must have gone through to turn out like that.

They're hoping to arouse and torment for their pleasure, but they're really just pathetic.

Sallysouth - 8-27-2005 at 09:01 AM

The report/article that "anonymous" posted was in the LA Times this morning, word for word. I'm just glad that "they" are investigating this, and we can only hope for a "just" outcome.

The Sculpin - 8-27-2005 at 11:28 AM

Comitan, your economy with words betrays the depth of their meaning. Thanks for the clarification.....

comitan - 8-27-2005 at 12:27 PM

sculpin

I have always been economical (Brevity) with words, in school taking a 3hrFinal exam finishing in 20min walking out with those looks, Yes I passed barely.

[Edited on 8-27-2005 by comitan]

[Edited on 8-27-2005 by comitan]

All Posters

Skeet/Loreto - 8-27-2005 at 12:44 PM

Any young Persons Death under the "Reported" events of this type is Sad!

there is some indication that there were Drugs in the Deceased .

Question Truth /or False. Is a person who uses those type Drugs "Mentally Ill"?

Skeet

comitan - 8-27-2005 at 01:02 PM

Skeet

The article stated she was Bipolar (Manic Depressant) This would account for actions the police didn't know how to handle, as PacO said it comes down to training.(We Hope) It was also stated in another article she was not taking her medicine this would lead one to believe this was a problem of her own making.

And if there was methamphetamine involved

jrbaja - 8-27-2005 at 03:20 PM

the Police would have had there hands full ! And generally, there is usually alcohol thrown in for an added "booster" for these young kids.
It is a shame but if illegal drugs and alcohol were involved, blame should not be placed on anyone as far as the death.

Bruce R Leech - 8-27-2005 at 04:54 PM

it is a bummer and I'm sure we will never know what really happened and why.

Au Contraire, Comitan

MrBillM - 8-27-2005 at 06:10 PM

Comitan Quote:

"My reply was in reference to MrBillM's post, basically saying she had no control over her actions. Nothing implied as to the actions of the police."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
She alone had control over how the arrest process went. If her mental condition was such that she was unable to control herself, she should not have been out on the street. Up in the E.U.A. we've been fighting this battle ever since the American Criminal Liberation Union forced the mental defectives out on the streets.

As far as your remark regarding "young" people and their problems complying with Law Enforcement (excepting me), you're absolutely correct. I think the first time I was ever in that position I was 16-17 and I put my hands in the air and said "yes sir" and "no sir" so I did learn well and early.

Of course, it's unfortunate that she died, but how many innocent people worldwide died on that same day and how much did you really care ?

Life goes on and there are rules to follow.

Anonymous - 8-27-2005 at 06:46 PM

Not all arrests go down "lawfully". To think so is keeping your head in the sand.

comitan - 8-27-2005 at 06:53 PM

MrBillM

Your reply seems to be to my post, but as you reply goes on it becomes all inclusive of the other posts. My last post stated that the fact that she was not taking her medicine it was a problem of her own making.

Lawful Arrests

MrBillM - 8-27-2005 at 07:04 PM

There is no doubt that there are incidents where the police, especially in Foreign Countries, have made unlawful arrests, but they are the exceptions reported. I don't include incidents where the police have used what, in retrospect, turns out to be excessive force. The excessive force circumstances could still have been avoided by the suspect's cooperation. The incidents in which the accused cooperated fully and was still injured or killed during the arrest are infintestimal.

I once witnessed an arrest outside a bar in Tijuana. We were inside drinking and watching the gals do naughty things with beer bottles when this one drunken military kid started harassing the bartender about the change made on a drink. A few minutes later, the police came in and pulled the guy off his bar stool, dragging him outside to the patrol unit. After initially resisting, the drunk started pleading and apologizing, saying he was "sorry". The arresting cop turned him with his back to the patrol car and proceeded to level some good punches to his midsection, saying "Oh, you're sorry NOW ?" My buddy said "somebody should do something". My reply was "why, he's getting exactly what he's been asking for". I'll bet his night went downhill from there.

Comitan - Apparently I was typing as you were posting. I apologize for not reading your other post before my reply. We appear to be in less disagreement than I supposed, although I do have a more callous attitude towards such encounters.

[Edited on 8-28-2005 by MrBillM]

Bajame - 8-27-2005 at 07:12 PM

Bipolar is tough because those that have it think that they don't need it and at times feel that others are out to make them crazy by forcing it on them. I knew someone that suffered from it and it was hell for him and his family. There found out that the medicine they were giving to many sufferers was not doing anything except making their swings from one state of mind to another worse. The person I know took those pills for ten years! Now he's on the right medicine and is doing great! The young woman was mentally sick. Someone should have been looking after her. Then again it's hard to control someone like that. My heart goes out to the Family.

Bruce R Leech - 8-28-2005 at 11:01 AM

I agree with Hose A that is a little much for an anon.

I think it would be good if they were attached to all anon posts.

[Edited on 8-28-2005 by Bruce R Leech]

Skeet/Loreto - 8-28-2005 at 11:12 AM

Let me assure you that it did not come from this part of Texas!
We all set here and make statements and opinions about something we have Read, never really knowing the Truth.
there are several Posters who cannot seem to keep themselves from Jumping on anything that gets faintly close to God, Christainy
I often think that they must be "Very Afraid" of their own Lives, there must be somthing missing in their hearts or Minds that cause them to be frightened..

I still suggest that anyone who does not beleive, go to church, read some books , get some direct Factual knowlege from someone they trust, then make up their mind instead of being so negative about anothers Religious Beliefs.

Like when I refer to the Liberals as being "Weak-minded", I then need to suppor my words with some facts and figures instead of just Words.

Skeet/Loreto

Bruce R Leech - 8-28-2005 at 11:14 AM

Skeet/Loreto right on :yes:

Dave - 8-28-2005 at 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Anonymous
********************************************

Not in Mexico. God doesn't pay salaries or tip.

The poor woman probably just slipped and hit her head. Repeatedly.

[Edited on 8-29-2005 by BajaNomad]

Wow

jrbaja - 8-28-2005 at 03:25 PM

You should see what they do to people that get out of line in the clubs in Rosarito !! How does one end up in that position to begin with? :?:

It is a shame but obviously, her time to go.

wilderone - 8-29-2005 at 09:19 AM

Mr. Bill - Your point of view is contrary to POST, and your supportive stance regarding beating people up in dark alleys by those in "authority" is uncivilized. You obviously are fully entrenched in your "we" vs. "they" position - and you are not one of "us." The next time you're sitting around oiling your guns, maybe you could give it some thought.

pokey - 8-29-2005 at 09:30 AM

Getting arrested should not mean a death sentence without the judgement of ones peers. I hope the parents of the young lady don't read whats written on this site.

who hasn't done anything stupid when they were 20?

[Edited on 8-29-2005 by pokey]

Avoiding Beatings

MrBillM - 8-29-2005 at 10:01 AM

WiltedOne is another typical Liberal. Nothing I said could be construed as supporting wanton beatings in back alleys. He made that up.

In effect, what I did say was that, in 99.99 % of the cases reported, the person being arrested is responsible for how that process goes down. It's as simple as that. Screw with authority and you're going to pay the price.

Pokey's right. What 20 year old hasn't made mistakes, but you have to expect to pay the price for those mistakes. That's where the Liberals go off on a tangent into fantasyland. In their world, mistakes have no consequences.

I once tried to avoid a traffic ticket back in 1960-61. I made a rolling stop at an intersection and noticed an LAPD unit about a block back. I drove around the corner, into an alley and went down until I found an open garage. I pulled into the garage and was about to try and close the garage door when the police showed up. After determining that I didn't have a clue as to whose garage that was, the lead officer started to write me up and dispense a lecture at the same time. I managed to come up with a sarcastic remark (something I'm known for) and he hauled off and backhanded me across the face, saying "you've got a smart mouth". I learned from that and went on my way. I guess today I could have sued for millions. Of course, there were no impartial witnesses.

Although none of us know what really happened

jrbaja - 8-29-2005 at 10:14 AM

if there was a person on crystal meth involved, the police did what they had to do to restrain her. And they probably needed more people to help.
In the clubs in Rosarito, there are certain holidays that the u.s. gangs come down to these clubs. They always have an idiot or two who think they are tuff and have to prove something. :lol:

The bouncers in these clubs are very well organized. And they are all very well trained and intelligent. They are nice people. Until someone tries to act tuff and looks a little crazed like when they are on meth.
I have always enjoyed watching these punks have both their arms pinned behind their backs and their faces planted into the palm trees at full force( Ouch!!) while still shouting they are going to kick someones arse or some such nonsense.
Drugs do funny things to people and meth is the worst. This is the only reason I could see anything like this happening.

Right On, JR

MrBillM - 8-29-2005 at 10:26 AM

Having been a law enforcement officer, you probably have a better perspective than most of us. I've had a couple of family members in law enforcement, but no experience myself, except as an arrestee a couple ot times and I was never mistreated (except for the Slap).

Pokey made the statement that an arrest should not be a death sentence. Leaving aside the Mexican element, I doubt that ANY police officer in the U.S. EVER intends to kill or seriously injure an arrestee. Doing so makes his or her life a miserable mess no matter what the final disposition is. It just isn't worth it to a career officer. Getting back to Mexico, what few encounters I've had with the law have ALL gone well, other than the financial aspect, because I've never given them a bad time.

I wasn't in Law Enforcement

jrbaja - 8-29-2005 at 10:35 AM

but I have a bunch of friends who are. The strangest thing about this is, there must have been something else going on in her head for a drop like that to kill her.
It's a shame. :no:

soulpatch - 8-29-2005 at 11:01 AM

It doesn't take much of a drop to initiate an intracranial bleed.

I guess those P-nche cholos

jrbaja - 8-29-2005 at 11:11 AM

have some pretty thick intracranials then.

Cincodemayo - 8-29-2005 at 11:17 AM

My sympathies to the parents and family but when in a foreign country you had better not act improperly or bad things happen....Mexico is very tolerant of crazy behavior to a certain point. I remember MANY crazy days and nights in Hussongs Cantina and nobody was incarcerated thank goodness.

Skeet/Loreto - 8-29-2005 at 11:52 AM

Jr are some of you Youngins!
In the "Meth World" of today can anybody tell me the meaning of "Cookie".
Skeet/Loreto

Cincodemayo - 8-29-2005 at 12:03 PM

http://www.wsnia.org/articles/MethPrevCookbook/METHCOOKBOOKi...

TMW - 8-29-2005 at 05:52 PM

My friends and I got thrown out (asked to leave by gun toting cop or security guard) of Hussongs about 20 years ago for being too noisy. I haven't been back but a couple of times since. I don't like their margaritas.

Woman's death in Ensenada jail is probed

Anonymous - 8-31-2005 at 03:07 PM

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/mexico/tijuana/20050831-9...

August 31, 2005

TIJUANA ? Ensenada authorities are investigating whether police officers were involved in the death of an Orange County woman in a jail cell Aug. 9.

At a news conference by the Baja California state attorney general's office in Ensenada last week, authorities rejected theories that Pauline Baeza, 20, died from a self-inflicted wound or committed suicide, said Liza Davis, a spokeswoman with the U.S. Consulate in Tijuana.

Davis said the focus on police is based on a videotape of Baeza as she was being taken to her jail cell, shortly before her death.

"It showed that she fell or was dropped and hit her head in such a way that was consistent with the injury that caused her death," Davis said.

An autopsy report determined that Baeza died from a brain hemorrhage caused by blunt trauma to the back of her head, Davis said.

She said Ensenada authorities have been talking to nine officers in an attempt to identify suspects.

"Mexican authorities have been very aggressive in monitoring this," she said.

Attempts to reach authorities at the Ensenada state attorney general's office for comment were unsuccessful.

The Orange County Register reported last weekend that Baeza had struggled with mental illness and had left for Tijuana abruptly. She was detained by Ensenada police twice the same day for alleged aggressive behavior before being taken to the jail cell where she was found dead about 11:30 p.m., Davis said.

Yikes !!!!!

jrbaja - 8-31-2005 at 03:21 PM

Cops get temporary immunity in death

Anonymous - 9-22-2005 at 06:12 AM

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/mexico/tijuana/20050922-9...

September 22, 2005

TIJUANA? Six Ensenada police officers under investigation for possible involvement in the death of an Orange County woman have obtained temporary legal immunity, the U.S. Consulate said.

The six officers have been suspended from duty, but they obtained what is called an amparo, which prevents them from being arrested immediately, said Liza Davis, a consulate spokeswoman.

Pauline Baeza, 20, was found dead in a jail cell Aug. 9. The investigation by state authorities has focused on what happened while police were carrying her to the cell.

Last month, the state attorney general's office presented a computer-generated reconstruction of what might have happened: It showed Baeza either falling or being dropped on the ground, hitting her head. An autopsy determined that Baeza died from a brain hemorrhage caused by blunt trauma to the back of her head.

Attempts to reach authorities at the state attorney general's office in Ensenada for comment were unsuccessful. An amparo is a common legal tool meant to protect individuals from abuse of government authority, such as unfair prosecution, but it can also be used to delay arrests until a judge reviews the amparo.

Officers Charged In Baja Jail Death Of SoCal Woman

Anonymous - 9-22-2005 at 09:15 PM

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/5009294/detail.html

September 22, 2005

SAN DIEGO -- Several police officers in Mexico are being charged in the death of a California woman who died in an Ensenada jail cell.

NBC 7/39's Spanish-language sister station in Los Angeles was able to confirm that the Mexican officers are being charged in the death of Paulina Baeza, 20. The investigation also revealed that three others will face charges connected to conspiracy to cover up her death.

Surveillance video shot inside the jail shows Baeza being carried and dragged by officers a short time before she was reported dead inside her prison cell. In the video, an officer can be seen grabbing Baeza by her hair. Another one is shown laughing, and one office appears to draw his finger across his throat, then dances as the girl is hauled away.

Baeza was arrested Aug. 9 after Ensenada police received two reports that she had been behaving in an aggressive, disoriented manner in public, said Liza Davis, a representative of the U.S. Consulate in Tijuana.

An autopsy by Mexican authorities showed that Baeza later died of blunt force trauma that caused a brain hemorrhage while in jail, Davis said.

Mexican authorities have obtained a security videotape showing that Baeza was held in the air as authorities tried to subdue her. She was dropped and hit her head.

Officials at the public prosecutor's office in Ensenada, a city on the Pacific coast about 60 miles south of San Diego, could not be reached for comment on Monday.

"They do believe that there was some police contribution to [Baeza's] death," Davis said.

Baeza's parents are outraged about her treatment at the hands of the officers. Pablo Baeza called his daughter's treatment aggressive and abusive. Her family is still mourning the young woman, who was a college student in Irvine, Calif.

The news that a judge had ordered the arrest of the six officers-- and that charges have now been filed -- came as a relief to the young woman's parents. Pablo said he was sad but somewhat satisfied that the truth was a bit clearer. He said he was hopeful that justice would be served. For her part, Paulina Baeza's mother, Carmen, said she was glad there was some resolution to the case.

According to published reports, the official cause of death was craniofacial trauma with fracture to the base of Paulin a Baeza's skull. A coroner's report from Mexico said there were hairline fractures on Baeza's forearms, bruises on her legs and arms. It also stated that she had a broken front tooth and several bruises to her face.

The "Orange County Register" reported Thursday that Baeza's Chevy Blazer had been impounded after the vehicle was ticketed for blocking a driveway. Police in Mexico said Baeza was arrested for trespassing when she climbed into a Chevy Blazer that was not hers, reported the paper.

Carmen told the "Register" that Baeza, who suffered from bipolar disorder, had not been taking medication for nearly 60 days before her trip to Mexico. She also told the paper that Baeza had no history of violence but had become verbally abusive when not taking her medication.

Baeza's remains have been repatriated to family members in California.

Dave - 9-22-2005 at 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Anonymous
Surveillance video shot inside the jail shows Baeza being carried and dragged by officers a short time before she was reported dead inside her prison cell.

The police didn't know there were cameras?

Idiots.

So what happens to a Mexican cop....

neilmac - 9-23-2005 at 02:15 PM

when he's arrested in Ensenada? Do they take him out to Ojos and put him in with the general population?

Neil

rpleger - 9-24-2005 at 02:08 PM

The Mexician officials have more of a chance to be disaplined then the officials will at Abu Ghraib.

JZ - 10-8-2005 at 11:50 AM

Good news.

comitan - 10-8-2005 at 11:56 AM

Very good news!!!!!!!

Bruce R Leech - 10-8-2005 at 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hose A
As of the first of this week the young womans death was ruled a homicide.

Three of the Ensenada police officers have been arrested and charged with her death.

They are looking at 10 years each.

that 10 years wont last as long as a Mexican light bulb :lol:

Dave - 10-9-2005 at 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
that 10 years wont last as long as a Mexican light bulb :lol:

Especially if you turn it on.

newspaper report

sylens - 10-10-2005 at 04:28 PM

today states family have written letter to Bush, Fox and BC governor requesting they enlist assistance of FBI. authorities had claimed they had contacted the FBI but victim's parents report that when they inquired about that, the FBI responded no contact had occurred. shocking

Anonymous - 10-10-2005 at 05:07 PM

Not shocking at all...but sadly true to form.

I hear there's a station

jrbaja - 10-12-2005 at 01:49 PM

in New Orleans looking for 3 replacements.