$97 for the passport (get it in 6-8 weeks)
$60 more to expidate it (get it in 2 weeks)
$15 pictures
$13.85 to ExpressMail it at your cost to tract it
Let's do the math for a family of 4....
$743.00 for the good-ole-USA...OUCH!!!
What do you think this will do to the econmy of border towns?????
NOT good for us or them.elgatoloco - 10-30-2005 at 07:07 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Bob and Susan
Jan 1, 2008 is the date...
Wiley has the site...
It's all about the dollar....
$97 for the passport (get it in 6-8 weeks)
$60 more to expidate it (get it in 2 weeks)
$15 pictures
$13.85 to ExpressMail it at your cost to tract it
Let's do the math for a family of 4....
$743.00 for the good-ole-USA...OUCH!!!
What do you think this will do to the econmy of border towns?????
NOT good for us or them.
I think that it will probably have an adverse effect intially. The times they are a changin'.
3 pennies a day for each member of the family over the ten year period the passport is good if you plan ahead. The cost of passport photos could go
up.surfer jim - 10-30-2005 at 07:52 PM
I sort of like the idea...It will keep the troublemakers out.....like bad roads...Sallysouth - 10-30-2005 at 08:14 PM
Yep Jim, I agree. A passport just makes life easier and safer.Specially if you need to leave the country in a hurry!!Bob and Susan - 10-30-2005 at 09:13 PM
There is NO national security in a Passport....
It's too easy to get....
birth certificate (easy)
DL license or picture ID (easy)
application (easy)
pictures (easy)
Money!!!
"if guns were illegal then only criminals would have them"Dave - 10-30-2005 at 09:38 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Bob and Susan
Jan 1, 2008 is the date...
Wiley has the site...
It's all about the dollar....
$97 for the passport (get it in 6-8 weeks)
$60 more to expidate it (get it in 2 weeks)
$15 pictures
$13.85 to ExpressMail it at your cost to tract it
Let's do the math for a family of 4....
$743.00 for the good-ole-USA...OUCH!!!
What do you think this will do to the econmy of border towns?????
NOT good for us or them.
Puleeze!
Why would you need to expidite if not needed for 2 years?
Cost of a passport is $112. Good for ten years.
That's $11.20 per year.
When was the last time anyone went to TJ and spent less than $12 ?Bedman - 10-30-2005 at 11:11 PM
My oldest daughter and her 4 kids are planning to spend a couple of weeks with us in Baja next year around Christmas time. I know what they're
gettinng for Christmas!!
doing the math.....it looks like $112 x 5 = $560.......I know they'll fit, Hope they like them!!
BedmanBob and Susan - 10-31-2005 at 06:51 AM
Dave....most people don't think ahead....
They wait to the last minute.....
They "NEED" it right away.
The passport is mailed "first class" How safe is THAT???
Bedman...if the kids are under 14 then BOTH parents have to be present when applying for the passport....bring dad.
....and KID passports aren't $97 but only last 5 years....you'll SAVE!!!
Would you be my dad?
Pictures are $6-7 at Costco...SAVE at least $40Dave - 10-31-2005 at 07:39 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Bob and Susan
Dave....most people don't think ahead....
They wait to the last minute.....
They "NEED" it right away.
Whaa?
Responsible people do.
They plan for their kids education, a home, retirement, vacations, etc.Al G - 10-31-2005 at 08:07 AM
Quote:
That's $11.20 per year.
When was the last time anyone went to TJ and spent less than $12 ?
Nobody minds just another little tax do they?Taco de Baja - 10-31-2005 at 08:34 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Bob and Susan
Jan 1, 2008 is the date...
Wiley has the site...
It's all about the dollar....
$97 for the passport (get it in 6-8 weeks)
$60 more to expidate it (get it in 2 weeks)
$15 pictures
$13.85 to ExpressMail it at your cost to tract it
Let's do the math for a family of 4....
$743.00 for the good-ole-USA...OUCH!!!
What do you think this will do to the econmy of border towns?????
NOT good for us or them.
Don?t forget the other cost of going deep into Baja...The tourist visa...$20 per person for 6 months....So add in another $160 per year for the family
of 4 Or $1,600 for 10 years to good-ole-Mexico! And that's
if the costs don't go up over the next 10 years.
Makes the pasport seem cheap, especially since you can go to other countries besides Mexico.rpleger - 10-31-2005 at 08:39 AM
It will help keep the Riff Raff out of Baja.
Actually, it may keep......
Hook - 10-31-2005 at 10:37 AM
.... a certain amount of riff-raff firmly planted in Baja. Those that crossed for nefarious reasons will not be able to get back in without one.
Remember, the passport applies to returning to the USA.bajajudy - 10-31-2005 at 12:40 PM
You are right on with that, Hook
from the other side of the fence
daveB - 10-31-2005 at 01:47 PM
and ( formerly?) the longest unguarded border on the planet, we will also be caught up in your new regulations here in the north.
As somebody mentioned already, a passport is just another piece of picture I.D., of some benefit to security, but not much. Mine, for instance, states
clearly that it is not to be construed as proof of citizenship. A passport may even help an ill-meaning character entry where he's not wanted by the
fact he has one, obtained legally or illegally.
Border towns will possibly become ghost towns. Trade will suffer the most, followed by steep declines in tourism, and in due course, in mistrust (or
worse) by everyone of any one else. All this at a time when most of the world's borders are opening up.
You folks in USA can be greatfull that your passports are good for 10 years. With a shelf life of just 5 years (4 1/2 if you go out of the country for
a long trip when yours is in its declining months of validity) Canada's has about the same price tag, and just because you've had one before means
nothing. You start your application from scratch. At this moment we are waiting for new ones to arrive. With the cold rains hittting us almost daily
we're chomping the bit to be Mexico bound.
DaveB, I think all of us wish
Hook - 10-31-2005 at 03:02 PM
the borders were more transparent. I mean, who really wants the border crossing to me MORE difficult. Not the emigrant, not the receiving country, not
the returning country.
Unfortunately, the world has, as it has before (WWI and WWII) become a dangerous place. AGAIN. And now that we have an enemy that defies
categorization by nationality, we have to put attempts at safety above convenience. It's a damn shame, but it's reality, regardless of which side of
the Iraq War or immigration issue you are on.
Europe, Asia and much of the rest of the world went through hell at one point or another in the 20th Century. Dont they require significant
identification even when members of the E.U. are traveling within the E.U.?
Yeah, just about anything can be counterfeited. Does that mean we should simply stop trying to identify anyone more seriously? I think not. If it's
the fees you object to, then maybe your populace (and mine) shuld take steps to try and reduce the fees as onerous. That's what our legislative bodies
are for. But meaningful identification needs to happen.
We do not live in a Lewis Carroll world......haven't for some time now, as much as we had hoped otherwise.Dave - 10-31-2005 at 06:37 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Hook
Yeah, just about anything can be counterfeited.
Passports have numbers. And the new ones are scanned. A counterfeit passport will get you busted fer sure.daveB - 11-1-2005 at 01:52 AM
Hook,
Thanks for your considerate reply. And I mean it. That this is a serious subject no one doubts. I carry my passport with pride and take it
internationally even where its not needed, don't mind paying the few dollars for it, and it is given great respect in many places which, strangely,
even extends to me at times. In my opinion it doesn't demand respect, but gets it anyway. Somehow. Its a Canadian thing. Sort of like sewing a red
maple leaf to your packsack, it sets you apart, you're considered part of the human race by a like - minded person who may not even speak your
language.
We live in the best time in the history of mankind, even if its not Wonderland. If we cannot bend a bit on issues of great concern I feel we're
not making the best of the situation. I will now go along with your government's passport initiative. As a Canadian I can protest, indeed have watched
the Parliamentary debates about the subject taking place in Ottawa, but I personally don't have a thing to gain or lose. Your border people will take
in hand my passport as before, look into my eyes and decide either to allow me or deny me.
Apparently, they will now do the same for you as you get your sun baked ass back stateside, but that's okay, you're fine with it, will now expect it,
in fact.
I was only considering the interuption to trade, and the plight of the American border towns near the Canadian border, it'll be tough on them,
most Canadian folks won't drive down anymore for the gas and all the cheese we are reported to be buying if they need to haul out a passport. For
instance, I keep mine in a bank vault when not travelling. But I'll let you extend your helping hand to get them back on their feet again, if you
don't mind, that is.
Your concern is added Security, so go for it! I don't need to be shot or nuked ( there have been multiple childish threats aimed at Canada issued
to that effect on this board) and you don't need to get blown away by a terrorist. So by hereby agreeing, in two years' time your level of paranoia
should have receded, and I applaud that, if it is so.
[Edited on 11-1-2005 by daveB]
[Edited on 11-1-2005 by daveB]Debra - 11-1-2005 at 10:03 AM
You not only need both Mom and Dad when applying for a passport for the kids, you now need to bring the kids too.Bob and Susan - 11-1-2005 at 10:43 AM
Kids under 14 need both parents...
14 and over only one
Kids NEED to come too....ALWAYS!!!!
You know, DaveB......
Hook - 11-1-2005 at 11:09 AM
......the biggest problem that border town businesses face occurred when multinationals realized that, even with NAFTRA, it was even cheaper to move
businesses to the Far East, mostly China. The huge increase in businesses that was anticipated after the passage of NAFTRA was blunted by "successes"
in opening businesses in China. Otherwise, it could have been an even larger increase in the maquiladora industries in Mexico......and that could have
put a dent in the illegal immigration problem, too.
When the new passport rules take effect, maybe we can hope that the more tourist-oriented businesses will be visited by a more well-to-do gringo that
has more disposible income to shell out. Might mitigate the losses a little.....
Maybe the border waits will go down, too!rpleger - 11-1-2005 at 11:22 AM
Hook.............
You are right on!Debra - 11-1-2005 at 11:44 AM
The kid being present is new, I don't know when they changed the rule, but, 7 yrs. ago when my son was 5, he didn't need to be there, neither did his
father, only a notirized letter was needed from Dad.
Side note: a bit off the direct topic, but, DaveB's comments reminded me of our Candian friends. In January of 2002 my young son and I took a trip to
Japan to join my husband who was working over there, we had to transit Vancover B.C.. I'll never forget the pride and gratefulness that I felt when I
saw painted on the Canadian Airlines planes lined up at the terminal, the US flag and Canadian flag, underneath the words "United We Stand" I had
tears in my eyes. THANKS CANADA!Bob and Susan - 11-1-2005 at 12:15 PM
...see this is why Passports are NOT a Security Item...
You can still download a form off the internet...notarize it....and NOT bring DAD!!!
I wonder if I can get my car smogged without the car....
(ANSWER) you CAN this too....
if you go to the RIGHT spotDebra - 11-1-2005 at 12:30 PM
You have to take Dad for the renewel now, at the court house they just copied his DL and had him sigh the paperwork, we didn't have Brendan with us
that day, so I had to take him back (Dad not needed that trip)
PS: How do you just print the notory from off the internet? You have to sign the paper in front of the "notery" things just make less and less
sence with all the red tape! UGh!
[Edited on 11-1-2005 by Debra]wilderone - 11-1-2005 at 12:50 PM
This is not a done deal:
"...PROPOSED implementation plan, which is subject to a period of initial public comment, ..."
My bet is that it won't happen.Dave - 11-1-2005 at 05:57 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Debra
The kid being present is new, I don't know when they changed the rule, but, 7 yrs. ago when my son was 5, he didn't need to be there, neither did his
father, only a notirized letter was needed from Dad.
It is my understanding that this still applies for children under twelve.Bob and Susan - 11-1-2005 at 09:45 PM
FourteenRiom - 11-2-2005 at 12:46 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Hook
Europe, Asia and much of the rest of the world went through hell at one point or another in the 20th Century. Dont they require significant
identification even when members of the E.U. are traveling within the E.U.?
Europe's been going the other way for some time now, making travel easier not harder. In most of western Europe (except the UK and Ireland) all that
is needed for an EU citizen is a national identity card - which is basically what most Americans have with a Driver's License.
In most of western Europe (again except the UK and Ireland) there are no border checkpoints, you should be carrying id but it's rarely checked.
(you're more likely to get id checked driving from Yuma to Gila Bend than driving from Lisbon to Berlin).
An Australian friend working with me in Holland drove to Paris for the weekend with wife+kids, crossing Belgium each way. It's only when they got
back home they remembered they hadn't taken any passports...
The British do need to carry passports travelling to mainland Europe (because they don't have any national id cards).
Doesn't stop them travelling, having a passport is something most people outside the US take as required. 20% or so of US citizens have passports
(especially the newly naturalized), around 50% of Australians - who have even further to go to get to another country - and over 70% of Brits/Dutch
etc.
On the Baja/US border a UK passport causes a bit of a double-take but doesn't slow me down much. Probably quicker than handing over several assorted
scraps of id.
Having said that, checking passports or having customs on the US/Canada border is daft. What's the point of a free trade area without free movement?
(and, once the southern border of Mexico is secure, it'd make sense to abolish the US/Mex border - this has been done in Europe without vast numbers
of people flooding into other countries).Ken Cooke - 11-2-2005 at 10:27 PM
I'll be in Western & Eastern Europe this summer. I'll try to pack a couple of David K stickers and hopefully not get arrested for sticking them
& taking a picture! HA!Hook - 11-3-2005 at 01:37 PM
Quote:
What's the point of a free trade area without free movement?
Many of us have concluded that free trade really never had ANYTHING to do with free movement of people. It's all about greasing the skids of big
business. If anything, I feel I have LESS ability to move goods or personal possessions across the border from either side.
It looks like Central America will be the next to discover meaning of "free trade" as defined by US treaty.daveB - 11-4-2005 at 03:09 PM
Hook,
You are right about free trade not going hand in hand with freer movement across your borders. Since 1988 when Canada and USA agreed on what
later became NAFTA, border problems have increased year over year. Now this.
But what is now put forth as Free Trade is obviously not how most western folk would describe such an entity. Serious issues are now left to
fester- eventually colliding with what are natural, common goals.
Riom has it right. He is using the EU experience as a yardstick. A better one.
And that's
if the costs don't go up over the next 10 years.