This morning our local paper in Victoria is advertising this new development. Apparently on the coastline, "facing Carmen Island" 5 miles south of
Loreto.
Has anyone in the area heard of this??Marie-Rose - 10-24-2003 at 02:21 PM
I found the site. Thanks. Can you tell me about the location of where this is going to be. Is it a nice beach? Do the locals think this is a
"good" thing?? I just think about all the development on the corridor between San Jose and Cabo and shudder to imagine the same thing. From their
promotions they seen to be considering the environment but it does like it is going to be huge...5000 homes???
Loreto Bay
LaTijereta - 10-24-2003 at 07:10 PM
I have been talking to the developers in Victoria. They are offering the first group on homes/ lots (40) on Nov 15th at the El Camino Real Hotel in
Loreto. The first group is located on the beach, just south of the Whales Inn (Old Eden Resort) and across from the golf club house.
Deposits (refundable?) of $5000 are being taken to take part in the "lot" party on Nov 15th.
The balance of the project is scheduled to go in over the next 10 years north of the Whales Inn and on the "other" side of the Hwy, up against the
mountains.
LORETO BAY
CJ - 10-25-2003 at 07:06 AM
Dream on.....Puerto Escondido, Escalara Nautica, and now Loreto BayLaTijerta are you going to the "lot" party? If so get me one too!CJ
Anything for a Free Cerveza!
LaTijereta - 10-25-2003 at 08:37 AM
Migual,
They have called me from Victoria 2-3 times for my thoughts on Loreto Are you
guys going to be still down there on Nov 15th? Skeet/Loreto - 10-25-2003 at 05:47 PM
All Posters!! Do not take this lightly!!It could happen!!
I think about 30 years ago when Tio Don O'neil and I bought the lots North of Loreto where now sets several homes in the Multi-,illon dollar range.
I think about paying $6,000 for the lot and selling it for nearly 1/2 millon cash.
If the property is legal and I would check with the best Attorney in La Paz and if he says go I would buy,buy buy!!!
Think about the following. If and it is very possible that another attack happens and in San Diego/L/A the citzens of LA will get out of town{those
that can afford it}
Skeet/Loreto
Loreto Bay
Ski Baja - 10-25-2003 at 09:33 PM
Lest we all not forget Punta Banda. I heard it from someone important today at lunch, "unless the Mexican Military decides it's a strategic location
for an outpost" to fight Americas addiction to drugs. And if I were them, I would wait at least until all the AC units are up and running!
the money is coming from Canadians......but
capt. mike - 10-26-2003 at 07:07 AM
the development expertise is from a very well established entity right chere in good ol' Scottsdale AZ. I say if it can be done, and it most certainly
can.....These guys can do it. The thing is , and it's that way for all things "developmental", is TIMING.
If that is right then it is a financial success. if not, another boondoggle.
When people decide they want 2nd homes in sunny baja for the winter they will have them. But to live year round in Loreto? not if they can afford
options, way too hot for the affluent.
IF IT WORKS.......
CJ - 10-26-2003 at 08:42 AM
it will be great for the economy in Loreto. People who have already invested here will see their investments increase immensily, air flight here would
be more reasonably priced and more often. I wish them luck on this project........we'll see how it goes. CJ
Loreto
Ski Baja - 10-26-2003 at 09:24 AM
CJ, do you think you will want to travel all that way from Ketchum to a town that looks just like Long Beach ? And do you also think that Loreto will
retain the same peacful, tranquility it has had for ever?
You know, Targhee was one of my favorite areas to ski a while back. And I think if I were to buy out some of your neighbors I could put in quite the
neighborhood as close as it is to there. Planned community of course!
Why do you live way out there anyway?Marie-Rose - 10-26-2003 at 11:30 AM
The presentation for "The Villages" was very interesting! If I had $150,000.00 liquid assets I would not have hesitated!
It was well attended,. I would estimate 150 people, appeared to be a mixture of income groups. Many from a previous developement by Butterfield that
has been a huge success. They described a community that would"produce more energy than it used"...solar energy plan plus windmills. They are
focussing early on a development for local workers. This will not be a gated community. There will be many streets only accessible for foot, bicycle
or electric cart transportation.
First offering is 40 lots by the oceon. First come, first serve. (they have a real fair way of doing this) Charter plane is taking intersted buyers
to Loreto on Nov 13th, $1000. for trip and accomodations...money back if you buy. I predict they will sell out on Nov 15th.
Feel free to contact me with any questions...too much to cover here.
What do Loretanos REALLY think?
flyfishinPam - 10-26-2003 at 12:29 PM
I believe that I have my finger on the pulse of Loreto as an employer in the tourism industry, this town's ONLY industry, as someone married to a
Mexican man with Mexican born children, I speak the language and yeah, talk to locals about this project often.
My first opinions were not very positive with all of the other failed projects that one must consider. But does Loreto want this or need this new
project?
Yes. Loreto wants and needs this project for so many reasons. We simply need the influx of new cash into this local economy which has been severely
weakened since 9-11.
I am different, someone who is resourceful and can find creative ways to get income, but most of the local Loretaons cannot and will not. They will
never move away from their families here, they know nothing different from the life they live here and it has been like this for many generations. If
Loreto Bay is successful it will only be good to the local economy.
Growth is inevitable, everywhere. While your backyard is growing (think of the continued building in many areas of the US), the Baja is also growing.
I hope the best for the project as I believe the developers seem to be dedicated to the conservation of the land that they will use.
Skeet/Loreto - 10-26-2003 at 12:56 PM
Marie-Rose
Can you please give a description of where the new development will get its Water?
Can you tell me if this if former Ejido Property?
What title company or Attorney will issue Title papers?Name and Address please.
What type of document will be issued at the time of agreement to Purchase?
To anyone interested I would strongly suggest you contact Alex Ogalive of Baja Realty in Loreto or call Lic. Miguel Izquierdo at 112 31844 in La
Paz.before you give these people any money.
Capt. George is on his way to start building his home in Loreto. As soon as he gets there he will set up his email and you can ask him his opinion
about the Loreto Property.
Many years ago the French spent about 5 million on trying to put in a Grand Development at Escondio Bay. They left after 5 years with their tails
between their legs.
Please contact me on this board are through my email if you need further info.Sonrisa@dospalos.org. Marie-Rose - 10-26-2003 at 05:08 PM
Skeet
I get the feeling you are asking these questions to put me on the spot!!! And you have...I really cannont say much as I went to the presentation out
of interest because we will be in the area soon and because this man is a well known developer in this area. I was dismayed to think of some more
areas looking like the San Jose/Cabo Corridor! When I went to the site (www.loretobay.com) it looked interesting. We did not invest, as it is a little too rich for our blood at the moment and our comfort level is
more of a simple life style.
I got the impression that the land was bought from Fonatur(???). They have an agreement that Fonatur will maintain the infrastructure for 25 years.
Water was not mentioned but is described on their site.
As far as documents go, sounded complicated, title held by bank(??).Apparently same process everyone goes through when they want to buy in Mexico. I
do know that they were not fractional ownership or timeshare properties.
As a tourist who loves Baja, I went to the presentation feeling quite sad that another undeveloped piece of land was going to be turned into a huge
playland for the rich but must honestly say that when I left...I wished that I had the money to invest. I would be very interested in your comments
after you look at their site. I can only hope that if it succeeds it will not only be great for the tourists but even better for the locals. Skeet/Loreto - 10-26-2003 at 05:28 PM
Marie=Rose
I am sorry I did not mean to put you on the spot!!I know about the Villages, and the property also can relate some stories that everyone should be
cautions about when buying or leasing property in Baja.
In all the years in Baja since 1968 the only property I know taken from investors was the Punta Bando area.I bought and sold property in Loreto for
about 10 years as a private individual with a Corp.
There is a beautiful piece of property called Doctor"s Point about 5 miles North of Loreto that I wanted to get my hands on but Lo and behold you
would have to spend millions to get water to it if you could get permission.
Also Loreto gets its water from 9 wells in the Mountains. Before the settlement at Nopollo which in my opinion is a good investment,was completed the
Govt. had to buy out all of the Water Rights of the Valle San Juan North of Loreto.
The only way a development can be sustained on the Villages would be a Desalt Plant or Canada to send water through the Colo River. {Which I think the
Canadians shoud do}
I think that is one of the most beautifull area in the world and I was able to live fulltime in Loreto for 20 years.
If you want a good piece of property with a view and clear title go out and look at MiraMar. That property is safe for Title.You would not be on the
water but the view is Fantastic.
I am glad you responded as that is what is needed to stimulate ideas and information from all sides.
I must say there is not much you are any of us can do to stop development. And when the time comes that we suffer another 911 you will see the folks
from L
A moving south. Please feel free to contact me on my email. I hope that I may be able to help . Sincerely Skeet/Loreto
In Real Life
Ski Baja - 10-26-2003 at 05:38 PM
"I must say there is not much you are any of us can do to stop development."
On the other hand, Mother Nature can wipe us out with the blink of an eye. Skeet/Loreto - 10-26-2003 at 05:45 PM
J. R. Nice picture. Would that be in reference to "The Wrath of God"?
Skeet/Loreto
The Locals
Ski Baja - 10-26-2003 at 05:52 PM
Does anyone remember the "Locals" prior to their Americanization ? Poor, poverty stricken families who had all the qualities that the original
article was about and what Skeet and Bernie are pointing out. Their only priority was loving and feeding their families. They never starved or felt
the need for a "Pink Stucco" house. They also took care of their "Seniors" no matter what condition they were in.
Would it be a good advancement for them to put them in "homes" because they are "too much of a burden".
And rather than give the children parental and family love, discipline, and raising our own children, there should be daycare where they get
"professional love" and "care:.
And turn them in to the pathetic excuse for children that some countries practising this technique are producing. Which is what these $$$ Planned
communities are doing.
And then for someone not even able to live there promoting it, well, I wish yall would really take a look at what the spread of this disease is
doing to the world.
The Wrath of God
Ski Baja - 10-26-2003 at 05:56 PM
This was predicted many many years ago as you know Skeet. I just wonder if these developers are looking at it as a new prospect for making $$$.Marie-Rose - 10-26-2003 at 07:05 PM
Thanks Skeet I've learned so much over the last 2 months of reading these boards and are impressed at how you "old guys" (and gals!!!) are so willing
to share your knowledge and experience. I am a firm believer than when when you visit an area you try to leave it untouched. I have been so turned
off by some of the experiences around Cabo and San Jose(nothing to do with the locals but more to do with the lack of locals!) and am so excited to
experience some of the Baja you guys are so passionate about. That was the reason for my question...knew you would discuss!!
Loreto
CJ - 10-26-2003 at 07:15 PM
JR.
When Loreto is like Long Beach will I live here? NO. Will Loreto remain tranquil? NO. I have lived "way out there" for all my life. I have a tourist
related business. We enjoy Loreto for the fishing and the peace and quiet. The last time we were in cabo was 1987........too many tourists! When it
becomes like Long Beach, I'll sell out; and be rich like Skeet. Read my first post. I don't think I'll have to pack my bags very soon.CJ
Village
Phil S - 10-28-2003 at 07:00 AM
Skeet. You've forgotten to mention to those who are unfamiliar with our area, that the Village is in an area that was "already" built about 15-20
years ago called Nopolo. El Presidente Hotel (now called Whales Inn) tennis facility with swimming pool, future bar/restaurant & existing tournament
court w/bleachers. Plus existing 18 hole golf couse with club house, pool, future bar/restaurant. Streets are in, utilities are in years ago. Lots
of houses already built & being lived in. The Village people aren't "starting" a project, they are hopefully finishing it. A new resort called Camino
Real was finished on the beach last November 2002. A small 24 unit condo project is in construction right now on the golf course with some units
already sold & occupied. And the developer is a Mexican family from the mainland. There is a small medical facility in the devlopment. Maybe fifty
homes built over the years, with hundreds of lots undeveloped. The Village will finish what Fonatur started. No big fuss about it. Nopolo is here
already. And the economy for Loreto is badly needed for sure from this "Canadian" company with a vision.
East Cape Los Cabos Loreto
Ski Baja - 10-28-2003 at 09:19 AM
I have heard most all of you complain about what has happened to the east cape area and Los Cabos. Most of you won't even go to Cabo San Lucas because
of development and what it has turned into. Same thing happened to the east cape and Rosarito/Ensenada for the same reason. Why do you think Loreto
would be any different which it won't.
And 5000 homes will have such a major impact on this not so very big, fragile peninsula. For one, La Carretera or will everyone be flying in?
For those that say Loreto is none of my business, all of Baja is my business and it has been for a number of years. And not only that, my business
has and continues to be with Mexicans that have lived here all their lives. And a few others from north of here on occasion as well. They see what
the Capitalization is doing to their children. No more family morals.
That many more people fishing and using the beaches will have a major impact on that attraction. Many of you were complaining about the Escalara
Nautica Project, that is nothing compared to what large developments on the peninsula will cause.
In spite of my political views and feelings on the development of one of the last remaining ecological wonderlands on the planet, I realize that
people disagree on some things. That is OK.
Any of you that are mature enough to not call people names are welcome to stop by for a cerveza anytime and just enjoy the view. No argueing or
getting mad, just the view and idle chat. That is what Baja is about. I hope it can manage to stay that way. Skeet/Loreto - 10-28-2003 at 03:52 PM
Phil S. Thank you for a very informative post;
I posted recently that I would buy in Nopolo as an investment. The article I just read was not very clear about it being done on the underveloped
Lots. I think that is a good idea if it can be done.
I was at the opening of the Presidente which was nver successful.I wait with abaited breath for 10 years to see the number 1 Tee to be built.
Knowing the ranchers of San Juan and the problems with the drelling of the wells in the mountains I am aware of the problems and lack of water.
I would gladly supprt your development if the following were completed;
A fund set aside in a escrow fund that would guarantee the return of 1/2 of the money invested by the buyer if water was not completed in an agreed
time.
A full Service Hospital set up by the Mexican Govt such as the General Hospital in Constitution.
An extra School set aside for the children of workers who will be brought in to do the work.
It is my concern that the developers with the tactic of getting the mony up front should put some money into the project up front themselves.At this
poit they have no Risk!!
Several years ago I was approached by a Developer offerring me a job to sell lots and promote a Motel at the entrance to Loreto.He agree to pay me 10%
Commission.I think 3 houses have been built and no Motel.
"It is much better to have a Bird in Hand than a Covey in the Bush".
I am very positive about any help that can be given to the people of Loreto where most of my friends are from the poorer side of Life.They will be
helped as they have been in the past with schools ,water treatment plant, paved streets.
I shall attempt to help my friends and neighbors with any thing concerning there giving money to an unproved situtation.
I will say that when another 911 comes to LA your project will grow over nite. I think this is already starting to happen.
If you are there at the right time you will make money and your project will fill a need.
P.S. The article in the Trivalley newspaper was laughable,inaccruate,Spin,if you are connected with this Development please get someone that knows "of
what they Write"Skeet/Loreto
Village of Loretobay
Phil S - 10-29-2003 at 07:11 AM
Skeet. I have friends in the San Juan valley who benefited from the wells that were drilled on their ranch. Electricity was brought to the ranch and
they now have an endless source of water. Without progress, there will be no 'gains'.
And I am imagining how those people felt in 1850's when the big western land rush began, that brought 1,000's of people to Oregon & Calif. and Ski
Baja must be a descendant of those earlier folks, as he's saying the same things I'm sure those folks were saying during those times. Zero population
growth, is the only answer to stop expansion into undeveloped areas, such as Baja. Do you think that you'll actually ever see this happen?????Skeet/Loreto - 10-29-2003 at 09:40 AM
PhilS
No Phil I do not believe that there will ever be zero Population.I am more into the Wrath of God where plague,Floods, Bombs reduce the population..
As you can tell I am more of the Survival of the Fitest.
I firmly believe we will see the time when a Nuke is presented to our great county and the resulting Holocast will help in the reduction of the Land
and the people.Skeet/LoretoAnonymous - 10-29-2003 at 09:42 AM
"And I am imagining how those people felt in 1850's when the big western land rush began, that brought 1,000's of people to Oregon & California."
Uh - I think it was called the gold rush.
And it's not a population boom in Baja that is forcing expansion - it is the greed of developers - Canadian developers taking advantage of a country
they do not appreciate for its true values.
I'm afraid that
jrbaja - 2-28-2004 at 08:31 AM
Anon is 100% correct. I have been watching, questioning, evaluating for the last few weeks and that is exactly what is happening. The Canadians have
beat the gringos to the punch on this one.
And they now own a good portion of Baja and are developing every inch they can. With great success as the developments are filling up fast because
of word of mouth. With Canadians.
The majority of motorhomes have Canadian plates. Most all the people at Tecolote, Concepcion, the east cape, Los Cabos are all Canadians.
The escalera is happening and most all areas are being developed. While you guys were ranting and raving about how you were treated or abused in
Baja, the Canadians skipped right through your country and bought all our neighbors land, right from under our noses.
I find it rather disgusting to now have to pay a Canadian 10 times what a property is worth because they weren't afraid of those horrid Mexicans.
hahahahahaha
No matter who did what, Baja is changing faster than Orange County did. And I was there and I am now here watching it happen. Tragic.
Costco in Cabo San Lucas yesterday was filled with more white people than locals. The prices weren't very good but to those that live there, price
doesn't matter.
At this rate, there won't be any need for BFG tires in Baja because it will all be paved. Just like orange county.Don Jorge - 3-1-2004 at 01:04 PM
JR. You lucky man, be safe.
Yep, Baja has been changing for quite a while. I doubt it will ever rival the madness here though. However, all of orangeless county is not paved. It
is actually quite possible to find some nice places in an undisturbed chapparal ecosystem. The one thing that might be the same between Baja and
orangeless county is: if you get out of your car and go for a hike you will see things most people never see. Yesterday I did that in orangeless
county up San Lucas Canyon in the San Mateo wilderness and backdown to the hot springs. I saw naught another soul or the track of man. Life is what
we make it. elgatoloco - 3-1-2004 at 01:13 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Don Jorge
Life is what we make it.
Es la verdad.
It's all good. Just some of it is gooder then others.
Bob H - 3-1-2004 at 03:12 PM
Good one Don Jorge. I love it when the sun is out anywhere in Baja...
And I really love Pescado Frito!!
Bob H - 3-1-2004 at 03:13 PM
Like these... Bob H
The Villages of Loreto Bay.
Anonymous - 3-12-2004 at 10:02 AM
The Villages of Loreto Bay.
Here's some information for anyone interested in this development.
I recently flew from Phoenix to visit this proposed village, and here's what I found .
First of all, you must write a cheque up front for $5,000 before you are allowed to participate in the inspection of this site. This cheque is
refundable should you decide not to buy.
To arrive at the site, the company will sell you a four day package for approx. $500.00 that includes your airfare and accomodation at a Loreto Bay
hotel (3 star) meals not included.
They will also credit you up to $1,000 (for 2 people) if you buy a property..otherwise no refunds on the travel package.
There are no buildings on the site, so you must be creative enough to to imagine what the finished villages will look like, although there are lots
of sketches of artists impressions, as well as a designer room with samples of the materials being used.
The smallest houses will sit on a 1,200 sq.ft. lot, this size includes your outdoor living space, and will cost around $160,000 for a one level
house. No garages.
A second level can be added for around $38,000.
The title to your lot will be held in trust by a
Mexican bank for 50 years.
You can furnish the house yourself, or buy a package from the developers.
You are not allowed to rent out your house. The house must be turned over to their rental pool, and you will receive 50% of the rental profit.
A receipt of your rental earnings will be issued , and you will pay Mexican tax on these earnings.
I spoke with a Canadian buyer who told me that they are trying to negotiate a better return than 50% if they join the rental pool.
Hope this will be of some help.
Jim in San Diego. capt. mike - 3-12-2004 at 10:48 AM
1200 ft lot or home??!! that as a lot size is laughable!! as a home size its a start, but not much for $160 K...... too bad, this will go nowhere fast
at those prices.
then again...i could get surprized.
Loreto Villages
Anonymous - 3-12-2004 at 06:34 PM
Capt. Mike...you'll be surprised to hear that they've already sold over 100 future home-sites!
The development is being heavy promoted both in the U.S. and Canada I hear.
There does not seem to be a shortage of buyers...
....And no, I'm not a buyer.
Seems there's still plenty of Americans and Canadians with deep pockets, who are willing to take a chance on the developers dream of a
'European-style village'
The prospective owners were told that they can expect to collect rental fees of up to $400.00 a night....sounds like a recipe to print money ???
Jim in SanDiego.Anonymous - 3-12-2004 at 06:42 PM
Capt. Mike...to answer your question re. the lot size...yes, 1.200 sq.ft. is the size of the lot...the houses will be walled and the living
area..inside and outside will encompass the 1.200 sq.ft.
Thats the complete size of the property...The houses will be built around little inside courtyards.
They look quite attractive, but you'd really need to be madly in love with your mate to live in such close quarters
The lots are ready
Sallysouth - 3-12-2004 at 08:30 PM
and are about the size of a good dog-run!Rode my bike down there today and it's hilarious how small they are. However, Mija spoke to the "main-man"
and he has confirmed that 50 lots have been sold. There are hundreds of them.It looks to be a town with in itself,with a planned coffee shop, art
gallery, furnitue store,etc.He said the response has been overwhelming, so we think their marketing has had a lot to do with it(internatinal). I hear
the machines daily and we live about a mile from the project. They seem to be moving forward ,without a doubt. It will be good for the local economy,
but as observed by some of the Nomads, it could be the end to a beautiful area of nature.Just giving you all my sightings as of today. (the weather is
perfect, by the way, and the yellowtail are thick!) Adios, Sally in Nopolo(aka:Msal)
[Edited on 3-13-2004 by Sallysouth]
[Edited on 3-13-2004 by Sallysouth]
Try San Carlos
JZ - 3-12-2004 at 10:35 PM
We're building a 3100 sq foot custom-built house w/4 bedrooms, 4 1/2 bath, 2 car garage on a 1/4 acre water-front lot at Marina Real with ocean,
moutain, and island views for the price of a 2-bedroom condo in LA.
No restrictions on our rights to rent it, or anything else we want to do.
Restartuants and activities are a cut above Loreto in my opinion.
Nopolo
Phil S - 3-13-2004 at 07:03 AM
Sally. One of these days when your riding your bike, swing by our house & let's get acquainted. It's on the north side of the tennis court. In that
cluster of 11 homes. Terra cota roof. Steep pitched. Ponga with blue cover parked next to it. Green Dodge pu in front. Can't figure out where your
home is located. This also applies to other Nomads who are in the area. Visiting or living. Phil & Wendybackninedan - 3-13-2004 at 12:54 PM
It amazes me that so many are willing to pay that kind of money just to live elbow to elbow with there neighbors.
My wife and I just purchased a 1/4 acre lot in Colonia Zaragoza,(south end of Loreto) for $3000.I wont have a coffee shop or furniture store, but
then these arent at the top of my need list.
It may be more rusic than some would care for, but it suits our needs, plus I didnt have to shell out $160,000 for 1200 square feet.
The weathers warm, the beer is cold, alls right with the world.
Dan and Misty
Get over it
JZ - 3-13-2004 at 11:09 PM
It amazed me 5 years ago the prices people were willing to pay to live in Tahoe and Palm Springs. And as it turned out, that was the time to buy.
I'm sure the people the 10, 20, and 40 years before that thought the same thing.
Moral of the story: buy as much property as you can.
But you must use your judgement what you think value is. I'm not sure there is value in Loreto Bay. I looked a bit and it seems suspect to me.
elgatoloco - 3-14-2004 at 12:03 AM
Wasn't it Will Rogers who said " Buy land, they are not making anymore of it". Skeet/Loreto - 3-15-2004 at 02:41 PM
Just arrived home after a 8 day turn around to La Paz. sorry I did not get to see those that I had attend to see. Next trip!
I will post some update info after I get unpacked and love my Wife and goats, Cows and Horse< All in that order!
Any one wanting to go private please u2u me are email at sonrisa@dospalos.org
Skeet/Loreto
"In God We Trust"wilderone - 3-15-2004 at 06:32 PM
JZ: the Loreto Bay development is not the same type of residential other primary home development you find in the U.S. and Canada, with people wanting
to purchase a home and raise their families and find a job in the community. This development is proposed to be built in an ecologically sensitive
area, with many promises from FONATUR (responsibility for the water and infrastructure - which has had little success with any of its past projects);
is overpriced compared with comparable labor rates and land prices in the U.S., and is not warranted by reason of need. Consider this excerpt from
Sam Quinones, Feb. 17, 2002, SF Cronicle: ?Cancun, a Fonatur project, is generally regarded to have wreaked widespread environmental damage. The
Baja Peninsula is dotted with smaller projects built with Fonatur funds in the 1970s and 1980s that either weren't finished or never attracted the
projected numbers of tourists. But those days are gone. Limited by slim budgets, Fonatur now mostly sells tourism ideas to the private sector. In a
Mexico of increasingly active media and civic groups, Fonatur also must lobby community business interests, local politicians, residents, academics
and environmental groups as well as investors.? To me, that does not guarantee that the portions of Loreto Bay that FONATUR is responsible for, will
ever get finished.
Nopolo has been around for years, and there has been little interest. These Canadian developers are pushing their agenda, peddling it from town to
town (they were in San Diego last month). In Loretobay.com?s hype pertaining to David Butterfield, President of The Trust for Sustainable Development
(a land development company), it stated that he undertook 7 years of research and design for the planned community of Bamberton, Vancouver island,
involving a metamorphosis of a derelict industrial site into what ?would have been? an ecologically responsible community. The entire project was
scrapped due to a mixture of political and financial difficulties. (see www.tombender.org/bamberton.html). Criticism of Bamberton?s ranged from appropriate architecture styles, sewage treatment, open space, to the
need to upgrade energy performance standards. Much of the Bamberton hype is the type of rubber-stamp project goals they now intend for Loreto Bay.
Butterfield is also credited with Tucson?s Civano ?sustainable? community - only now building Neighborhood 2 and 3, some 10 years after acquiring the
land. As early as August 2000, the Civano plan was beginning to diverge from its master plan, and Butterfield is no longer involved. This ?new town?
of Loreto Bay will not be finished (as envisioned) for many years, yet the first persons buying into it will be paying for all the promises in the
interim. And, unlike Civano, there is no partnership with the likes of City governments, and Fannie Mae to oversee progress and ensure some measure
of success.
Commenting on the price of property in Lake Tahoe 5 years ago, as a matter of fact, many homes were available at $170,000 or lower - the same price as
the lower priced homes in Loreto Bay. (Their online brochure lists home beginning at $150,000, but in San Diego the low-end price was advertised at
$170,000). Think about it - what you get at Lake Tahoe is a secure title, a home on your own lot that you owned (not leased) for life, infrastructure
already in place, a beautiful lake, mountains, recreation, entertainment, medical care, no HOA fees, etc. I just received a brochure for a retirement
development in Port St. Lucia, Florida, which includes golf courses, pools, spas, craft/meeting rooms, and a host of other amenities, starting at
$70,000, and topping out at $125,000. (The land has a fixed rate lease). $170,000 will go a long way in Baja in an authentic Baja California town ?
one which you can start enjoying immediately - not something in a false fa?ade of a Baja pueblo, with a lot of promises and "narrow streets" where no
cars will be allowed, and the view blocked. I agree that buying property is usually a good investment, but the value is only contingent upon a fair
price, which is usually based on current market value ? a dubious calculation at this time, as would be ?equity? and ?capital gain? on the same
premise. Renting to offset your monthly payment? Consider the competition and the fact that they?re not built yet. The project is speculative at
best, and a gamble for sure.Skeet/Loreto - 3-15-2004 at 10:42 PM
Very accruate and truthful Post .
Skeet/Loreto
"In God we Trust"
Loreto Bay update
rogerj1 - 5-15-2004 at 09:32 AM
I just found this thread. You all have really thrashed this subject out! I've been in touch with a salesman from Loreto Bay. They weave a very
compelling story. Sales have gone quite well. They sold $8 million of real estate at their March sales event. I was recently emailed a projection of
rental income that I think you'll find interesting. Their assumption is based on a buyer puting 30% down and financing the rest at 8.375%, According
to this, one could break even at a minimum, or even make a tidy little positive cash flow! Their sample is based on a 2 bedroom village home with
Beach club membership($5000 extra) selling for $250k. They're projecting rental rates from $250 to $450 per night and 200 nights per year of
occupancy. Here are the costs:
50% split with property mgr. $25000
Furniture Reserve of 2% $1000 to $2800
HOA $1800
Utilities $2400
Maintenance and Misc. $1000
Taxes $1500
Insurance $900
Bank Trust fee $350
I've attached the document if you want to look at it. Have at it! I have no affiliation with this project, just posting this for information purposes.
[Edited on 5-15-2004 by rogerj1]
rental rates
Anonymous - 5-15-2004 at 06:15 PM
let's see, a sales person said there is a projection you could get $450 a night and you could get that for 200 nights a year...ask the manager of the
hotel at Nopolo ,I was there in Feb. and it was vacant...I do not think you could get $450 Pesos per night at Loreto Bay...
scam
aldosalato - 5-15-2004 at 07:47 PM
This kind of project looks more like a scam to get a lot of money through loans out of banks. Many projects like this have failed in Baja in the past
but have replenished crooks developers in the past. For sure it is doomed to fail as numbers do NOT add up
Doesn't look promising to me
JZ - 5-15-2004 at 08:37 PM
dono - 5-16-2004 at 06:18 AM
sounds way overpriced, baja has so many more nice areas that you can get into for a fraction of these prices, plus loreto has got to be one of the
hottest places in the summer time, ive been through there when temps are in excess of 110*but it is a pretty place.
$450 a nite, 200 nites!!! ha ha ha
capt. mike - 5-17-2004 at 05:59 AM
what a joke! that's why the chivato hotel is always empty.
no one will pay that, the realtors are scamming suckers again. buy yes , but don't expect it to flow cash!!
I can't wait for the next seminar they put on in Scottsdale, i will attend and goof them up with Q's from a baja regular!!
Beach Membership!!!
bajagrouper - 5-17-2004 at 09:08 AM
I remember the days of camping,snorkeling and relaxing at Nolpolo,never thought by 2004 one would have to buy a beach membership for $5000...best
memory at Nopolo:the day a dorado chased a flying fish right up on the beach...
Cost of Rentals
richard nauman - 5-17-2004 at 04:03 PM
$450 a night to rent a house in Loreto? I laughed so hard when I read it beer came out my nose and now my key board is all sticky. At least for now
you can rent a nice house with a pool for a week for about $600 and have El Rey de Tacos just down the street. I think the Posada de los Flores is
only around $150/night with that nice roof top pool and bar. Or if you're like me you can stay at Palmas Altas for $25/night. I'll stay in town with
the Mexicans and the Roosters anytime its way more fun.
RNtim40 - 5-17-2004 at 08:05 PM
AMEN!!!
Prices at Punta Nopolo
El Almirante - 5-18-2004 at 08:20 AM
Do any of you in the Loreto area have an opinion on the prices and features of the Punta Nopolo condos? I know the first phase is built and I think
they're starting the second, so there is actually something there, as opposed to the promises to build of Loreto Bay. Also, the proximity to the golf
course and beach interests me. Thanks for any replies
Punta Nopolo
Phil S - 5-18-2004 at 06:43 PM
The builder brothers are friends of ours. We've visited several of the owners frequently. They are Mexican Nationals from the mainland. Their website
will show you Phase two has about four or five units left to sell, and not even broken ground yet (12 unit building) It also lists the prices. Any
other questions, come back with them.
loreto bay rentals
flyfishinPam - 5-21-2004 at 06:10 PM
I am a resident with a business in tourism in Loreto and after eight years in the business and my knowledge of the local hotels pricings and
ammenities, this proposed rental program of which I read and hear about from buyers, will be the demise of this project.
I really want to see Loreto Bay work, Loreto needs the boost in the economy... but to tell folks that they'll be able to rent a 1,600 ft2 home out for
$300/night 200 days a year? Get real! Will never happen.
Its enough that they just sell the homes to these buyers, but they want to keep right on milking them out of 50% of their rental income. Bad
business. I sure hope they see this and change their policy.
Research for us?
Sallysouth - 5-21-2004 at 08:51 PM
Hi Pam, How about if you go "have a chat" with the" big guys" and let us know what you find out? You are a reputable biz owner and know the laws of
the land.Give us all a report when you get the first-hand info,por favor.Gracias, Sally
[Edited on 5-22-2004 by Sallysouth]
yes!! Pam, you need to get your input
capt. mike - 5-22-2004 at 08:41 AM
etc. to Jim Grogan, the jefe of all that officed here in sunny ond HOTTT!!! Scottsdale where i live..... get his contact info off the web site for LB.
DA big boyz
flyfishinPam - 5-22-2004 at 04:54 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Sallysouth
Hi Pam, How about if you go "have a chat" with the" big guys" and let us know what you find out? You are a reputable biz owner and know the laws of
the land.Give us all a report when you get the first-hand info,por favor.Gracias, Sall
I'll wait for those big boys to come to me. wilderone - 5-24-2004 at 11:42 AM
Grogan, et al. don't give a hoot about what happens after they make the sale. Their modus operandi is walk away from the development after it's
passed off to others to finish. That's the way their "Trust for Sustainable Development" is organized as a development company. They're selling
pipedreams. wilderone - 5-26-2004 at 09:30 AM
I went to a LoretoBay presentation in San Diego last night. There were few hard facts beyond what hype there is on their website. The word
"sustainability" is tossed around, but no real applicability to the project. Says 123 homes sold already, with 3,000-4,000 projected to be built on
3,000 acres. He hyped a future equestrian center, $1 million wine cellar; 10 tennis courts and 6 spas. They plan film festivals. The price tag on the
Beach Club initiation fee was $20,000, but if you put up your $5,000 last night, the Beach Club initiation fee was reduced to $5,000. The annual
maintenance fees alone would make ownership restrictive in my opinion: $1,800 HOA fees, and $2,400 utility fees; taxes at $1,500. That's a minimum of
about $500/mo., not even considering the homeloan. The whole thing is getting more and more bizarre. He calls it an "authentic" Mexican town, and
along with this, there is film depicting some mainland Mexican city. They have a very skewed view of what a town in Baja California should look like
- called it "European". ???!!! Seems oxymarooonic to call it "authentic" and then not market it to Mexicans, design it by Canadians to look like
something "European." The intro was a lot of hype about getting caught up in materialism and keeping things simple, enjoying nature, blah, blah,
blah, and then turn around and offer $20,000 beach club memberships. What a load of @#$%^.
very disgusting to hear.....
capt. mike - 5-26-2004 at 09:40 AM
again the actions of a few give a bad name to us good developers.....
'course i suppose there are those out there that would say my projects are a sham too.
but seriously folks... i at first was open minded about this gig, now i am less sure.
glad i am trailer trash in mooooolehaaaaayyyyy!!!!!Marie-Rose - 5-26-2004 at 09:46 AM
Wow...can't believe this thread is still going on. Was not able to spend as much time in Loreto as planned as we were caring for our new dog who
found us in the desert near Todos(more about that on a different line)... We drove thru Nopolo and examined all the "little" plots of land that were
cordonned off and labelled "sold" by Villages of Loreto. Definetely not for the person who is going to Baja to experience the traditions of the
locals!! Nopolo had some lovely homes and well manicured streets, made me feel like I was back in some of the neighborhoods of home. Not what I want
to experience when in Baja.
I agree with Pam. This project would be good for the economy and there are obviously people who want that type of existence in Baja...not for me.
Give me a piece of land in Todos, high on a hill so I can see the mountains and valley. I want to hear the roosters in the middle of the night, the
cayotees in the desert, the barking dogs, the music coming from the local neighbors homes....I WANT TO GO BACK!!!!
The latest
rogerj1 - 7-12-2004 at 07:03 PM
At the risk of getting flamed by the anti-development types, here's the latest on Loreto Bay. Apparently their June sales event did quite well.tim40 - 7-12-2004 at 08:37 PM
but many will question if it is happening......no I...don't really desire it, but it will not stop. In fact, it will only pick up steam. Wait till
our economy is fully back on track..
Remember Punta Banda?
jrbaja - 7-12-2004 at 08:40 PM
Childsplay!!
"Where's the Water?
Skeet/Loreto - 7-13-2004 at 06:10 AM
Water? We don't need no stinking water!
Anonymous - 7-13-2004 at 03:11 PM
Are those the guys
jrbaja - 7-13-2004 at 03:22 PM
that did the presentation in San Diego ?
So you want to buy some Baja
Anonymous - 7-19-2004 at 07:35 AM
I just came across this sit out of La Paz who have up for sale:
1. 1.5 kilometers of beachfront adjacent to the Mogote Penninsula for only $10,000,000 USD.
2. Cerralvo Island for $30,000,000 USD.
Baja is getting expencive,no
JR, it's Jim Grogan's development/mgmt
capt. mike - 7-19-2004 at 10:52 AM
group out of Scottsdale. you can get to it via the loreto bay web.
you should attend one of his seminars, you could have a field day!
I have a bridge in Brooklyn too!
capn.sharky - 7-21-2004 at 09:47 PM
There is an old rule about investing in Mexico...its like going to Las Vegas. Don't take more money than you can afford to lose. Now I realize that
to alot of you $150,000 may seem a real bargain, but its far to rich for my blood. How about some oceanfront property in Arizona? I will believe it
when I see it. Yes, it would be good for Loreto (maybe). However, the new El Camino Hotel and the Whales Inn aren't exactly bringing alot of new
money into town. Hell, it costs $30.00 round trip to go into Loreto from the El Camino. Also, Loreto Bay plans to put in their own shopping centers
down in Nopolo---so why drive to Loreto. Just a bunch of Gringos wanting to live among more Gringos. Actually, they are mainly Cannucks. Oh well,
to each his own.
last laugh
Anonymous - 7-21-2004 at 10:43 PM
what is wrong with living around a bunch of folks from Canada. while Americans b-tch about prices in the Baja,we are buying it all up.wilderone - 7-22-2004 at 09:36 AM
Yes, you Canadian leeches are buying up "the Baja." (gag me) What's wrong? Let me count the ways:
1. You're destroying the ecology with your appetite for some semblance of Canada implanted in Baja California;
2. The fast and furious over-development is not a natural progression borne of need, but rather the result of a handful of people who want to line
their pockets at the expense of destroying the land for all time;
3. The influx of more people - the emigrants seeking a job as a waiter, maid or handyman and the habitants of the new dwellings, will bring inherent
pollution: effluent, refuse, noise and societal.
4. These developments are on the shores of the already taxed Sea of Cortez which struggles even now to remain healthy and sustain its populations of
fish, bird, mammal species. Additional pollutants in the water, thousands more people extracting from the sea will take their toll, hastening the
degradation of the Sea of Cortez;
5. Developments such as Nopolo, a fabrication atypical of what is found in Loreto, will isolate its inhabitants from an authentic Mexican town and
its inhabitants, creating a cultural and economic division, i.e., all the ills of segregation;
6. The intrinsic value that nature in its pristine state provides to mankind - peace, regeneration, well being, joy - are lost with the introduction
of anything that destroys that unspoiled state, and those places are becoming fewer and fewer - but many, many more generations need the promises that
nature in its unspoiled state can provide.
You Canadians are akin to the marauders of Spain, raping the land for your own selfish, greedy desire, irrespective of any consequences. You should
be ashamed of yourselves for your personal participatiion in the destruction of such a special place on earth. Open your eyes and see what you're
really doing.
You forgot to mention the fact
jrbaja - 7-22-2004 at 11:28 AM
that the majority of canadians that are doing the buying are the most self centered obnoxious pieces of dung that I run into down here.
They feel they are better than the Mexicans and gringos because of who knows what but the fact is, they are doing harm to the environment just by
being themselves.
Perhaps a little bit of the Tripui incident needs to find it's way to Comitan, eh anonymous hoser?FrankO - 7-22-2004 at 11:34 AM
Now wait a minute! I thought gringos were any non-Mexican national. Now you're telling me I have to differentiate between caucasions of different
nationalities?
[Edited on 7-22-2004 by FrankO]
Gringos
capn.sharky - 7-22-2004 at 12:34 PM
The word Gringo comes from the Mexican American War. American soldiers wore green coats. When spotted, the mexican soldier would yell Green
Coats---hence gringo. So that would pretty much eliminate the Cannucks from being Gringos. Do I detect a little hostility about the Canadians here?
They are very easy to spot in Baja. They are the ones trying hard not to fit in. They drive the really big expensive motorhomes and could care less
about the mexicans that live in Baja. I am sure there are a few exceptions and I know I will run into one, one of these days.
Yep
jrbaja - 7-22-2004 at 12:50 PM
Those are the ones I seem to run into as well. Besides the ones that actually bought here. They have taken rudeness to a new level.
And they get ripped off regularly, treated as they deserve to be treated by the locals eh, and b-tch and complain aboot the Mexicans who respect
almost everybody.
Flags in the sand
Anonymous - 7-22-2004 at 02:24 PM
I love it when you pull into a beach like Tecolote and the motorhomes are in a circle each one wearing a Canadian flag.they live for free for months
and only go into town to buy ice or the use internet cafe,It's funny Mexico has some of the best beer anywhere and they bring a 3 months supply of
Hamms.
costco
lewm - 7-23-2004 at 06:23 AM
With all of this development in the works Costco can't be to far behind. Who would ever believe that they would open a store in Cabo.
Costco In Los Cabos
jrbaja - 7-23-2004 at 08:12 AM
is one of the most expensive stores I have shopped in. They carry live Maine lobster, many fine wines and cuts of beef that look out of this world.
You don't see many Mexicans shopping there but lot's and lot's of string bikinis and gold jewelry.
Just a little out of place.
there's one right up the run
capt. mike - 7-23-2004 at 04:13 PM
at hotel / condo row in puerto Vallarta too.
i'd a shopped there but we got the hell out a town and flew 3.5 hours nonstop to mulege to get out of the rain, 5 days straight, and away from the
beach vendors.......what a bunch of hassle!!!!
again, sure like being trailer trash....
Capitan
jrbaja - 7-23-2004 at 08:55 PM
Viva la Basura !!!!
AMEN to that Bro!
capt. mike - 7-24-2004 at 07:59 AM
Oliver Douglas is my hero!
Sure, i work in the development game, building for the wealthy.....hasn't made me rich yet though. It's all relative. But i don't begrudge those that
made it to the big leagues money wise. Mega poop projects in baja? dunno....the market will decide what works and what don't. the only constant is
change.
Well, with a wife like his....
jrbaja - 7-24-2004 at 08:03 AM
I can certainly understand why. Personally, I liked Mr. Haney!! And since we just got satellite, I can brush up on the old episodes of Green Acres
and the Addams Family!
I may never head south again.Bob H - 7-24-2004 at 08:55 AM
JR, I knew you liked the Adams Family - from the many photos that you have posted over time.... but now Green Acres... never saw one photo of the pig
or anything posted by you. Greeeeeeeen Acres is the place to beeee! Faaaaarm liv'n..... ha hahahaha
Bob HAnonymous - 7-30-2004 at 01:11 PM
It's kind of interesting that a development that calls itself environmentally sound has a long string of street lights along its length. Returning
from a night dive south of Nopolo we were stunned by the light pollution. Before rounding the point we had been picking out constellations and
admiring the stars that were easy to see in the total darkness. When did these lights go in? Is this one of the development "improvements"? By the
way, we have been looking for property in Loreto town and can't imagine why anyone would buy into such an overpriced, overhyped disneyland mexican
village. elgatoloco - 7-30-2004 at 05:44 PM
Light pollution sucks.
Quote:
Originally posted by Anonymous
It's kind of interesting that a development that calls itself environmentally sound has a long string of street lights along its length. Returning
from a night dive south of Nopolo we were stunned by the light pollution. Before rounding the point we had been picking out constellations and
admiring the stars that were easy to see in the total darkness. When did these lights go in? Is this one of the development "improvements"? By the
way, we have been looking for property in Loreto town and can't imagine why anyone would buy into such an overpriced, overhyped disneyland mexican
village.
Anon
Skeet/Loreto - 7-30-2004 at 08:13 PM
I noticed many changes this week one of those was the Lighting.
I would suggest that you look for property in Lake Havasu City AZ. There is a Law that controls the street Lighting, at night it is very Dark, the
Stars are Great.
Up here in California we have what you might call "Liberal Pollution" New York and Los Angeles Times newpaper Pollution"etc.
Please be careful when and if you Buy in Loreto, there are Banditos around, just like here in California>
Hope you have a good trip!!
Skeet/Loreto
"In God I Trust"
Because they can
rogerj1 - 7-31-2004 at 10:18 PM
"By the way, we have been looking for property in Loreto town and can't imagine why anyone would buy into such an overpriced, overhyped disneyland
mexican village."
Compared to where most buyers live, these places are a relative bargain. It's amazing how effective marketing can be. A lot of people like going to
Disneyland. What keeps many Americans from going to Mexico? Fear. So, the developers make a place that feels familiar and safe yet with a "flavor" of
Mexico. Apparently it's working quite well for them. The question is, will future buyers be interested in buying in?If the developers can sustain
their commitment, I wouldn't be surprised if buyers do alright over time.
roger1
Skeet/Loreto - 8-1-2004 at 04:57 AM
On seeing the action at Nopollo,did it not bring to mind the last Decade or so in your Area?
The rush of Californians to the Northwest,the bellyaching that Calif Trash was taking over, buying all the Property etc, the building of Homes in the
Marshlands that were flooded in the wet Season, the Signs on property reading"We accept Calif. Money".
There are Scams of all types in all Places where "Hot Market Real Estate Thieves" gather to fleece the general Public. It has been going on for
years!
"Let the Buyer Beware" is there Motto. It is no different in Loreto.
Skeet/Loreto
"In God I Trust"wilderone - 8-2-2004 at 10:18 AM
"Compared to where most buyers live, these places are a relative bargain." They may think they're a bargain, but they're only considering the price
tag and, like you said, only comparing it where they live. But if they'd do their homework, they would find that they could buy a property already
with a dwelling on it for much, much less, or buy a lot and have their own custom home built for less. If you really want a place in Baja CA for a
getaway, there is no need to pay an exhorbitant price, and to pay more for membership into a cabana club, or whatever it is they call it - how utterly
ridiculous. They're spending huge amounts of money for a development with narrow streets, and units placed so close together that you might as well
go to a hotel and pay a fraction of they would spend on a yearly vacation in the same place. If these people think they're going to spend their
winters there for several months of the year, I hope they like to knit, because after 3 weeks of swimming in the pool and laying on the beach, there's
not much else to do. Oh yeah - they were going to have film festivals. Well, that takes care of one Friday night. There was going to be some
agriculture project too - this I gotta see -- a desert nursery supported by the same residents who are willing to pay $250,000 for a beach club so
someone can hand them a towel. And then you can wander around in the hills if you want. And golf - they spew environmental protection mantras
("tread lightly" - hold me back), and then build a water hogging golf course adjacent to an estuary. If these people think they are buying an
investment, they better check around and get all the facts. The project won't come to fruition for 12-15 years - says so in the brochure (and proven
in the Civano project) - and that's if you think it will happen. Fonatur is developing other areas of Mexico for the same purpose - Grogan (Trust for
Sustainable Development) is John McCarthy's pawn in McCarthy's quest to plunk a European style structure on every pristine beach Mexico has.
(Research the environmental problems and overbuilding at Akumal and the deterioration of Cancun - vacant hotels). I don't think there is a fear factor
involved - it's an ignorance factor - most people don't even know such properties exist and once they learn only what the developer tells them to the
exclusion of the big picture, their tunnel vision prevents an informed decision. Unfortunately, the picture is painted for them with a dubious brush
- telling buyers they can net $19,000 by renting their 2 bedroom home; couching the location as the Loreto Bay Marine Park being the "nursery of the
blue whales"; they tout Loreto's "cultural amenities" that are "in place" as a selling feature - that Loreto is the "historic capital of all the
Californias and home to the first Jesuit Mission, ancient cave paintings and [] number shops and restaurants." Gee - pretty much describes a town -
like most towns all over Baja California, which have their unique "cultural amenities." If someone wants to own a piece of "the Baja" (ohlord), there
is already plenty on the market without destroying any more of what Baja California is really about.
okaaaayyyyy..........
capt. mike - 8-2-2004 at 02:05 PM
guess you WON'T be buying one then?
Words of Wisdom
Skeet/Loreto - 8-2-2004 at 02:31 PM
When people move to those newplaces, thereis never enough to do , so Drinking, Gossiping, and all the other things that go with Boredom rears its Ugly
head.
Virgina and I Watched as the changes occurred in Loreto, we lived on $800.00 a month, which included a couple of trips to La Paz.
There are many good lots in Loreto with mexicanos neighbors that are "True Neigbors].
If you really want to know and love Baja, Learn Spanish, get involved with the People. Adventure!!
"In God I Trust"
Street lights in Nopolo
Phil S - 8-3-2004 at 06:17 AM
I can address the street lights in Nopolo. Been there about 18 years I think when the development was done by MEXICANS. Yep! Done by the Mexican
Gov't!! Isn't that somethin'? But it didn't sell well. So along comes someone with guts, money & vision (to those of you who are jeolous of the
developers making some money, because 'you' aren't involved in it) and bought up the rest of the lots that hadn't sold. Yes they did acquire rights
to addition land for future development, if the project does go. As far as the $160,000 for a lot, someone forgot to mention that it included a home
on it. Yes, a small lot, so a small house. So what? There are those that can live in a 700 sq. ft. house, and there are those that need or want a more
spacious home for their retirement. If they have the money, let them spend it as they choose. If some people are lucky to have $$$$$'s, don't knock
it!!!! Afterall, it IS their money not yours. Being jealous of others holdings, breed trouble. It takes many kinds of people in this world to exist
together. Those that have, and those that don't & wish they had, and those that are just happy with what they have. Then there are the malcontents.
They want uncle sam to take care of them, and they b-tch about absolutely everything that doesn't meet their approval. You rarely find happy people
in the latter class. So, to the malcontents. Did something go wrong in your life that you had no control over, that left you 'behind' and others went
on to become satisfied with their life? If so, was it "fate" that caused it, or perhaps was it 'wrong decisions' that placed you in your 'present
state'? You don't have to be reading abut Baja to find them. Pick up any reading device and you'll see them all over the place. They don't bother
me. I try to not bother them. Peace to all, and may those more fortunate build their castles or shanties at 'their paradise!!! Anonymous - 8-3-2004 at 08:29 AM
Maybe that string of lights along the coast has been in awhile; this is the first time that we have seen them, but definitely not the first time we've
been along that coast at the same time. I do know that there are other lights in Nopolo that have been there a long time. Because someone has
objections to the project does not mean they are jealous or that they don't have enough money to buy multiple lots in the development. It may mean
that they have legitimate concerns about environment and legitimately question the need to create an upscale gringo enclave in someone elses country.
Just because Fonatur or another government agency has some part in a project, it doesn't mean that the average Mexican citizen approves or benefits.
There is a real question about whether or not this project will provide local jobs and tourist destinations don't always help local economies. It may
or may not, but that requires some real questioning and analysis. True or not, there is a perception among some local people that the development
will be hiring from other parts of Mexico, and that the wages for the development part will not be enough for local people to take the jobs.wilderone - 8-3-2004 at 08:41 AM
Phil, you missed the point entirely. Take off those rose colored glasses - they're making you blind.
It's wonderful
jrbaja - 8-3-2004 at 08:46 AM
that many of you have done so well you can afford to build or buy your mansions.
It would also be wonderful if you did it in your own country rather than spread yer dung all over the world.
Especially in the environmentally fragile areas that will be changed forever by just your presence alone!
wake up JR and smell the money......
capt. mike - 8-3-2004 at 02:19 PM
it's a world economy and world markets now. participate and prosper or whine and wither.....
Phil, they just don't get the fact that individuals can decide for themselves where to spend their $$'s. And businesses can decide how to manage and
take on risk.
