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who da guy?

woody with a view - 3-24-2006 at 09:45 AM

while searching for palm seeds last saturday down the wet arroyo crossing at catavina (west of the highway about 100 yds) i came upon this sight. : :?:

there were no sopilotes circling so i didn't think the guy was dead. i called to my son who was nearby to come over. the guy didn't move. he would have heard me call to my son and you'd think he would have at least moved!!! so at that point i started tripping on maybe it was some kind of ambush/setup and we bailed.

stange....

Wow Woody...

vgabndo - 3-24-2006 at 10:04 AM

I guess there are several ways to look at this, but my first response is to be a responder. If it wasn't a suit of clothes full of straw as a gag, and I just left, I'd have to hope he was dead because I wouldn't want to live with the idea that I abandoned someone in the desert who was suffering.

What did the authorities in Catavina say when you reported it?

Are you just running a scam on we Nomads?

Tomas Tierra - 3-24-2006 at 02:36 PM

Looks like a nice place for a dirt nap!

Woody------

Barry A. - 3-24-2006 at 02:46 PM

----not being able to carry my weapon in Mexico, I would have done exactly what you did, and that would have been tough because as a cop I am trained to help folks. But there is no way that I would have walked into that situation without a weapon, especially having family with me.

What a strange happening, I agree.

woody with a view - 3-24-2006 at 03:37 PM

having training as a firefighter and an emt my first thought is never put myself in a situation where i also will become a victim. there are a hundred scenarios for the reason this guy was there.

i'll sleep well tonight, thank you-

Paula - 3-24-2006 at 03:51 PM

But Woody, we still don't know if you reported it to the policia in Catavina.

Someone could be missing this guy, and he could be alive in poor health!

I would probably not have approached him myself, but to not ask the authorities to go help him out seems cold.

Tomas Tierra - 3-24-2006 at 04:11 PM

I'm not sure if I would have reported it either. Allof the sudden you could beconnected to something terriblr a long way from home..not sure..
glad it wasn't me..in either position!

Tomas Tierra - 3-24-2006 at 04:12 PM

wish I was in baja though....

Bob H - 3-24-2006 at 04:12 PM

This is very strange. Is it just me or does anyone else see an image of a person standing in the upper center of this photo looking down at Woody. This looks freaky to me and I think I would have gone quickly to the authorities to report this.
Bob H

Un boracho?

Skipjack Joe - 3-24-2006 at 04:24 PM

I like to think that I would have walked up to check him more closely and provided any aid I could.

More than likely he'd just had too much to drink the night before. A boracho. Sleeping off the effects of the alcohol. A baja version of SF's street people.

Natalie Ann - 3-24-2006 at 04:33 PM

Likely I'd have gone to check out the guy personally - but even if i had not done so, I would have reported it to the nearest 'authorities'. Could be someone in need of help... and if it' is a set-up, why leave it for the next guy?

[Edited on 3-24-2006 by Natalie Ann]

The Sculpin - 3-24-2006 at 04:56 PM

I would have thrown a rock at him. It the rock did a low thud with not much spring, I'd say he's dead. If the rock bounces back real fast, he's alive. I would then throw another rock, but harder. If he groans, he's injured. If he gets up and chases me, it's an ambush!

As for that freaky guy looking down on Woody, that's just Jack (in the box) with a sunburn and really puffy eyes!

Bruce R Leech - 3-24-2006 at 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob H
This is very strange. Is it just me or does anyone else see an image of a person standing in the upper center of this photo looking down at Woody. This looks freaky to me and I think I would have gone quickly to the authorities to report this.
Bob H

Bob you are right :light:

I would report it I could not sleep at night if I didn't.

you don't need to help but it is your personal responsibility to get help.

It could have been a trap

it could have been someone that needed help

it could be a dead body that the family would like to recover before the wild animals destroy it.

it could have been many things but every one of them should been reported.

I hope I never get sick by the side of the rode

what is it about most of the tourists here in Baja that when you have trouble on the highway 50 tourists will pass you by but the first Mexican will stop and help you out :no:

Tomas Tierra - 3-24-2006 at 11:09 PM

Sorry Bruce...But

I believe Woody said this guy was a hundred yards or so up an arroyo, not visible from the road. In the middle of the desert, ina foriegn country, possible dead dude, possible lurker in the bushes..I'm outa there like a quial on the run! Report it in Catavina? then you are tied to it.
If your sick on the side of the road I'll help you, carefully. If I'm 100 yards away from my vehicle up an arroyo, sorry dude..

Natalie..Easy to type, different with adrenaline at work..
TT

Diver - 3-25-2006 at 07:13 AM

Couldn't agree more, Bruce.

I have twice had to hitch-hike due to car/boat problems in Baja.
Both times I was passed by many, many tourists and picked up by a local.
Chickensh-ts like some of you could have forced me to sleep in the dirt somewhere.

If you have your kids with you or are otherwise impaired,
TELL SOMEONE !! DO SOMETHING !! BE HUMAN !!

Bruce R Leech - 3-25-2006 at 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tomas Tierra
Sorry Bruce...But

I believe Woody said this guy was a hundred yards or so up an arroyo, not visible from the road. In the middle of the desert, ina foriegn country, possible dead dude, possible lurker in the bushes..I'm outa there like a quial on the run! Report it in Catavina? then you are tied to it.
If your sick on the side of the road I'll help you, carefully. If I'm 100 yards away from my vehicle up an arroyo, sorry dude..

Natalie..Easy to type, different with adrenaline at work..
TT

so you would just run away and not report anything? :?:

Capt. George - 3-25-2006 at 09:15 AM

I would have checked for watches or anything gold, also his wallet for extra pesos. Times are getting tough..

sorry, that's my street-self talking...

probably would have not entered the area but would report to next town...

capt g

Tomas Tierra - 3-25-2006 at 09:32 AM

Mr. Leech

pretty much....I guess its hard to say unless your there at the scene but there are just to many variables getting involved in something like that. chances are my young family would be with me, and the thought of having some kind of bad situation develope is not happening with me...what if you get blamed??stranger things have happened in Catavina.

report to the authorities...no.....Tell the guy at the pemex, or the guy in the tienda..yes/maybe.....TT

Natalie Ann - 3-25-2006 at 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tomas Tierra

Natalie..Easy to type, different with adrenaline at work..
TT

Yes Tomas, it is different to sit here and think about this situation rather than to have been in it.

Had I been in such a situation and felt fear, I would have left to find and tell the nearest authorities and/or people.

Had I not felt fear, I would have approached the man to check out the situation, see if there was some assistance I might offer. And yes, that might turn out to be a bad choice for me.

I cannot, however, imagine any case in which I would simply ignore another human being in possible need of assistance.

Certainly it is not my intent to judge Woody. He had concerns for his family and acted accordingly. I am a bit taken aback that the incident was not reported. But again, mine is not to judge... we're discussing a situation here, and no one is on trial.

Diver - 3-25-2006 at 09:41 AM

Hope it never happens to you, TT.
Maybe someone will help, maybe not ?!
Also a good lesson to teach the kids about responsibility and manhood.
Hope the next generation turns out better than that.

Diver - 3-25-2006 at 09:50 AM

I just asked my kids what they would do if they encountered this situation. They both responded that they would run to find me and tell me what they saw asap.

When I asked what they would then expect me to do, they said they would expect me to go look and help the man somehow.

When I asked what they would feel if I just said to forget it and did nothing. They both looked at me with confused looks; they couldn't understand why I would do this. It would dissapoint them.

I'm proud of my kids and I want a better world for them.

woody with a view - 3-25-2006 at 10:23 AM

i'm glad that i can still provoke a little controversy now and then. i think (most) everyone has a valid perspective on the subject but having the comfort of hindsight and a computor monitor does twist reality a bit, no?

my point has been made and i'm not trying to win any accolades or make any enemies. all i can say is next time you pass the area, why don't you go for a walk with one of your kids and decide, with the notion of hindsight being 20/20.

it has nothing to do with stopping to help a stranded motorist and everything to do with walking into an unknown situation, with your child. :!:

as for not going to the nearest person/authorities to report what i'd seen? well, after all, it is a foriegn country and maybe i just was spooked at the time and maybe i wasn't. again, hindsight.

[Edited on 3-25-2006 by woody in ob]

Tomas Tierra - 3-25-2006 at 11:02 AM

Diver-

At 4 months old, My son would not have been tought anything about manhood, thank you very much...

Diver - 3-25-2006 at 11:07 AM

I hope everyone understands that I am just expressing my feelings and mean no offense but.......

.......this is the most fun I've had since JR passed ! I do miss the man.

Lot's of spirited opinions ! All welcome, of course.

Tomas Tierra - 3-25-2006 at 11:17 AM

Yu are prety qiuck on the judge and insult there Diver...I have helped COUNTLESS people on the side of the road (ussually dirt road) and feel my road carma is good...my kids are being brought up well and taught safety first when we are in Baja..to get involved with some dude laying in a ditch in the middle of the desert is un safe with young kids IMHO...

Tomas Tierra - 3-25-2006 at 11:22 AM

You snuck that one in whilst I was typing Diver...and yes its all good....Its all hindsight and really, who knows how one would react in that sit. I can only guess at my reaction....safety for the ninos #1 concern!!

JR would be going off lately!! Seems people are coming out of their shells since the Man passed.... HE is missed!!

Packoderm - 3-25-2006 at 12:33 PM

I agree with Dessert Rat. Curiosity would get the better of me. I would check it out - though I don't think I'd go through his pockets, steal his boots, or place a lighted M-80 in his mouth or anything like that even if he is dead.

Tomas Tierra - 3-25-2006 at 12:38 PM

Your makin people think Woody!! Been talkin to my wife all morning about this stuff...

Good thread! Tuff subject..

Desert Rat..way to get right to the heart of it man! you are absolutely right

Baja Bernie - 3-25-2006 at 12:53 PM

Someone mentioned JR--Wonder what he would have done. Desert Rat is right on--Setting up an ambush with no reasonable expectation that someone would stumble into it is just not real world.
Having been a 'first' responder---I always thought that is what we were supposed to do--respond!

Heck, I didn't even look at this post because I thought it was just one of those--"Where is this" posts.

Going to the authorities--now that IS iffy particulary in Mexico with the guilty until proven innocent thing operating.

Most interesting post. Go back now! If he smells it is not a setup.

Natalie Ann - 3-25-2006 at 01:32 PM

Not only is the choice of location a poor one for an ambush, as pointed out by Desert Rat... I gotta tell you folks that if someone wants to ambush you in the middle of the desert they've no need to lie across the path playing dead. They'd have much better luck hiding behind brush or some of that rock, where you'd never suspect trouble lurking.

To me, "Ambush" is not the real question---

Barry A. - 3-25-2006 at 01:56 PM

-----I agree that an actual "ambush" is not likely, but the real issue is that the kid was there (or anybody else, for that matter). Your "instinct to help" should not put somebody else in danger, unless they are competant to take on that danger, whatever it may be, it seems to me. We were always taught, "back-up", "back-up", "back-up" before ever responding to a potentially dangerous situation. Sometimes you don't have that luxuary, but in this case (as described) I am real leery of just rushing in. There is a dead guy (probably), and that is potentially dangerous, and it is Mexico and the laws are different----all contribute to being hesitant to just rush in. If I was alone, I probably would have investigated further, more out of curiosity than anything else. This does not seem to me to be someone just in "trouble".

woody with a view - 3-25-2006 at 02:16 PM

like i said, there are 100's of reasons that guy was there. i didn't think there were skinny banditos behind the scrub at the time. i'm more worried about coming close enough that the guy spins with a knife, machete, etc at close range. NOPE, not this gringo, or my son!!!

we'd been out there for some time so the guy COULD have been aware we were coming closer. or....

so maybe i'm callous? if he's dead, i don't want to be anywhere nearby when the birds start circling. if he wasn't dead, then i'm happy we didn't disturb him and left him to his own devices. after all, he got there somehow! if he was hurt and couldn't move when he heard me call to my son, well, maybe he was too far gone anyway and i don't want to be anywhere around when the questions start coming.......

[Edited on 3-25-2006 by woody in ob]

JZ - 3-25-2006 at 02:32 PM

Woody: you did absolutely the right thing. No way, no how would I have gone near that guy. I'd would be out of there so fast it would make your head spin. I would report it though.

[Edited on 3-26-2006 by JZ]

Bruce R Leech - 3-25-2006 at 08:40 PM

why are some of you so afraid of reporting some one that needs help or anything else.

Bruce----for me, it's "you are guilty until proven innocent."

Barry A. - 3-25-2006 at 08:48 PM

-------that "rule of law" can really ruin your day.

Diver - 3-25-2006 at 09:41 PM

I would never have believed I would hear some of the previous responses from Baja Nomads. I'm very dissapointed. Sorry, but I just don't understand.

Come on people. What if that was your son and no one would even tell another human he was there ??? Is this is the behavior of civilized men these days ??

Frank - 3-25-2006 at 10:11 PM

I've erased what I wanted to say 6 times now. So...I'm the guy who would of checked him. If for nothing else other then my conscience. My family knows Im that kind of guy, and my sons will be also. I have to be who Iam , no matter what/where/when.

Woody, your gut/instinct said leave, you listened. I cant fault you for that.

Bedman - 3-26-2006 at 01:42 AM

SHOULDA, COULDA, WOULDA.....

We can all come to a conclusion via supposition or conjecture. Sad to say we have no idea What was happening in the mind of another soul at any one particular point in time.

Just think, you've been traveling for 9 hours.

As you crossed the border and weaved through Tijuana traffic a Not so upstanding cop had stopped you and wrongfully accused you of a hit and run accident. You deny it flatly and unequivically and think the worst is going to happen. He threatens you deny. It goes on for a few minutes until he puts the bite on you. Looking at your son you breath a sigh of relief you hand over a sum of money and the cop warns you to be "Extra Careful" in a menacing and ominous tone.

Next Stop is the Pemex in Ensenada and the attendant pulls the old "Back to Zero" pump scam. You think, "Should I call a cop?" You don't. "Damn, that just cost me $40 bucks" as you pull out into traffic. Looking at your son as you point your way South your figuring you'll have a Great time when you finally get to your favorite fishing spot and get camp set up.

Your car drops into the second vado in Catavina. You pull off to look for those Blue Palm seeds you want to grow. You know exactly where they are. Walking up the quiet canyon you see somebody lieing down. Who is that? Why is he here? It's too quiet you think to yourself and the hair on the back of your neck starts to tingle. You call to your son...no answer. You call out again and he calls back to you. That little voice in your head starts talking loud and clear. The bells and sirens are now ringing inside your head. Warning! Warning!

Do you take your son by the hand and walk up the arroyo? Do you call a Friendly cop? Do you tell the guy at the gas station?

I'm not saying all these things happened, Hell, I have no idea what happened that day.

I do know, I wasn't there, I don't get a vote.

Bedman

Skipjack Joe - 3-26-2006 at 06:03 AM

This is one of the most disturbing posts I've seen here in a long time.

One man finds another who is in need of assistance in the open desert. He takes a picture of him and leaves. Only to post the picture of the victim and discuss the circumstances on the internet. It makes your blood chill.

The night before reading this post I had watched Titanic on the boob tube. My mind went straight to that film. 1,500 people were crying for help in that freezing water while 700 others sat in their lifeboats listening and unwilling to do a damn thing. They told themselves that it was too dangerous. That their boats would be swamped. In hindsight they look like a cowardly lot. A class of people (the rich) who had lost their perspective and moral values to do the right thing.

There was a story in the Mercury News a couple of years ago that's also related to this. We had a very wet winter that year and the Coyote river had flooded. A migrant worker had seen a boy in distress carried by the rushing water. The man jumped in to help. Later on they found the drowned man downstream but the boy miraculously survived. Was the would be rescuer a hero? Or was he a fool? He was neither. He did what he had to do. He reacted instinctively. The time called for action and his core values were strong enough that no thinking or analysis was required.

And that's how I feel about this thread. There's too much rationalization about something that should have been a gut check.

Pompano - 3-26-2006 at 06:27 AM

Seems like people posting on this no-brainer are making a choice....and it is a very basic one for your place in the world.

You are either an Invalid or a Nurse.

We all certainly do come from a different frame of reference----

Barry A. - 3-26-2006 at 09:41 AM

-----I have been going to Mexico for about 55 years, mainly Baja. I CERTAINLY did not go there to "get away" from anything. I went there because it was a "new frontier", wild and raw, and thereby exciting----a place to explore. And, I always thought that it was that way because most folks were afraid to go there, thank God.

As Baja develops, it is less desirable, for me anyway.

"paranoid wimps" ????------that is FUNNY :lol:

Packoderm - 3-26-2006 at 10:18 AM

Maybe a poll would be in order.

Also, is the photo legit, or was it staged?

Bruce R Leech - 3-26-2006 at 10:29 AM

I don't like polls but this is a very interesting thread.

Thank you woody for having the nerve to post this I know it must have been hard for you. but we are all learning something about ourselves and others also.

I agree with the fact that it is easy to monday morning quarter back this situation and I only think I know what I would have done in you case. no one knows for sure.

A life was saved, True story

fdt - 3-26-2006 at 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Was the would be rescuer a hero? Or was he a fool? He was neither. He did what he had to do. He reacted instinctively. The time called for action and his core values were strong enough that no thinking or analysis was required.

And that's how I feel about this thread. There's too much rationalization about something that should have been a gut check.

On May 04 2004 we took a trip to Ca?on de Guadalupe, fdt, Mrs. ferna, and the kids in one Saturn VUE and James and his daughter in another Saturn VUE, we wanted to try them out, both brand new, the plan was to leave Tijuana early, but ended up leaving till about 10, we reached the Ca?on de Guadalupe exit at about noon or so and into the Salada we went, there was some pavement then, maybe for about a few miles in and then the dirt started, about 4 miles in we see at a distance a man walking, as we get closer he starts waving at us but not very energetic as if his arm weighed a ton, remember it's around 12:30 and it's 109 farenheit according to our thermometer in the mirror and this guy is just walking twards us. Were all what the? and we stop and the guy is foaming in the mouth and sais ayudenme por favor, immediatly we start asking what is he doing walking in the dessert (he had a digital camera hanging from his neck and was well dressed but dusty). As we continue asking and giving him gatorade / water / soda, we sat him in front of the air conditioner (the guy was dying when we found him), he starts to compose himself and starts telling us that they thought they whent to far and in turning bak got stuck in the sand and that they waited and waited and no one would drive by so they decided to walk to the hwy and that his friend was back there cause she couldn't make it any further. I'm all what do you mean back there, there is someone else? So we get back in our cars and there we go full speed and after quite a way we spot someone laying on the middle of the road. Were all Oh my God! Oh chit! En la madre! We get there, get out of the car and it's a young laidy just laying there navy blue skirt, white shirt, navy blue sport coat. I start moving her in desperation, Simone tells me get out of the way and starts mouth to mouth, listens to her heart, sais she still has a heart beat, I say lets get her in the car fast! Rapido, rapido! I start emptying the back of our VUE of fire wood, ice chests, transfer the tents, sleeping bags etc from the back of my friends VUE and we get her into the back of his vahicle and off they go to the hwy, James his daughter the guy, and my wife with the lady trying to resucitate her. I stayed with the kids, loaded up some stuff, left behind some other stuff and followed them. when we got to the hwy I'm all now what? so I head twards Mexicali. I spot them on the side of the road by one of the emergency phones and there is a white pick p truck aproaching them, the ones that work on the roads. kids stay in the car, I go to the other car, my wife is crying, the girl's dead. The road guys call the caseta de cobro and 2 more trucks arrive and they call an ambulance. By this time Simone (Mrs. ferna) is getting really peeed off at these people that work on the roads and don't even have a first aid kit, or nothing and are just staring at the dead girl and she's all but the guy needs help he's all dehidrated. The ambulance arrives and the same story, they go to the dead girl and pay no attention to the guy. Finaly they cover up the girl w/a white sheet and tend to the guy. Remember the dead girl is inside the back of my friends car. so now they say that they have to wait for the federal because of the dead girl. When the federalde caminos arrives we realize the hole thing that happened and all of the possible complications (dead girl in car? Who done it). We start explaning to the federal and tell him the whole story. he gets on his cellular and is talking to someone, he goes to his patrol car and radios, then another cellular call and then another and another. He comes back to were we are by the ambulance and then to my friends car, uncovers the girs face and sais to the ambulance guys I don't think she's dead, he orders us all to follow him, that we were going to the hospital in Mexicali to get an electrocardiograma to verify that the girl was dead. So here we go caravaning, the federal, my friend, with dead girl in back, the ambulance, me and the kids, the three hwy trucks. Boy it seemed like a long way, we whent all the way downtown MXL to the Hospital General, drove into the emergency drive, we all get out, it looked like they were already expecting us, a young doctor goes to the back of my friends car and verifies that the girl is dead, the federal orders them to get her out of the car and get an electrocardiograma for verification. They all look at him like he's wierd or something but obey and get the girl out and place her in a wheelchair, and could'nt get her straight enough to sit (she was stiff) and they rolled her into the hospital. the federal callls us and sais give me your information so we do that and then he sais "You need to hurry and move your cars because they are blocking the emergency driveway".
My friend and I realized tat that was our queue, out get out of jail card, our ticket to leave. We now knew what all those call were for back in the hwy.
So there we go back to Ca?on de Guadalupe, this time we took distances, from the road to were we found the guy, from the guy to the girl's location and pick up our stuff and then we whent for 9.8 miles and found the truck stuck in the sand, brand new, with a sign on the sides that said CESPM. They were both engineers for the water company on theire way to do a survey at a ranch and they realized that they had gone to far, stoped and tried to return and the truck got stuck, they had no radio, no water and no cel phone(it wouldnt have worked anyway). Anyway we got out of our cars and we all whent to the truck like something was calling us to look at it, it was the missing link to the story, our experience, the kid's real live dead person, it was reality, lessons to be learned, time, meditation, prayer, thankfulness, and reality. Ok now so we went on our way, by this time the sun has gone down so we want to hurry so Arturo is still awake when we get there. Here is were it really got weird half a mile in tward the canyon the road bends to the right slightly and as you finish that bend ther was a ranch with trees, windmill, water sprinklers, people. Now that was wierd, if theyd only gone the other direction.when we got back home, I started going into the la cronica's (Mexicali's newspaper) web page and found out that her name was Rosario, she was 26 years old, etc.l My wife was reading all the stories they wrote about the incident and she, against all logic wrote to one of the reporters to tell our story, and they even printed it. I was kind of nervouse that they might find us but nothing happened, the girls mother ended up emailing mi wife and thanking her for all she did for her daughter.
I guess what Im realy trying to say is that I would have aproached the guy in Catavi?a to see if he was ok.
http://www.lacronica.com/EdicionImpresa/ejemplaresanteriores...

[Edited on 7-30-2009 by fdt]

fdt - 3-26-2006 at 10:52 AM

http://www.lacronica.com/EdicionImpresa/ejemplaresanteriores...
http://www.lacronica.com/EdicionImpresa/ejemplaresanteriores...
http://www.lacronica.com/EdicionImpresa/ejemplaresanteriores...

[Edited on 7-30-2009 by fdt]

Great Story, Fdt------------

Barry A. - 3-26-2006 at 11:00 AM

---and I applaud you, and your friends, for doing absolutely the right thing!!!!!

I have a similar story, but not nearly so dramatic, and the victim lived to tell about it. Still, if we had not happened along in a VERY remote area, this guy probably would not have made it, either----same circumstances.

Like others have said, it just depends on the circumstances, I am thinking. You gotta follow your "gut" on these things, it seems to me, and to criticize someone else for the way they react is fruitless, and damaging. We can only speculate what WE PERSONALLY might do.

Thanks for a great story.

David K - 3-26-2006 at 11:08 AM

Gracias Ferna for printing your story here!

Tomas Tierra - 3-26-2006 at 11:46 AM

WOW fdt that sounds like a heavy day..

That man in OBVIOUS need of help would get every bit of assistance I could offer whether by myself or with my young family. I applaud you and your team for your efforts..

I think every "paranoid whimp" here would have done the same thing.
That man was dying, that boy in the river was dying, human nature takes over..

Bruce R Leech - 3-26-2006 at 12:08 PM

Wow fdt what a story you are to be co mended for doing every thing possible to help those people. and a life was saved because of it .

Before this thread I would have thought that your response would have been the normal one. now I wonder.

one thing is for sure I am going to double up on My survival gear that I have when I travel.

thanks for shearing fdt

JZ - 3-26-2006 at 12:15 PM

FDT is to be aplauded for this. But his circumstances are a lot different from Woody's.

It was Simone

fdt - 3-26-2006 at 12:23 PM

She's the one that had the girl die in her arms, she did the resucitating efforts. Yes we all took part, we were all in the same train of thought and actions, but she is my heroe. We don't see eye to eye sometimes but I would never leave home without her, my very own kentucky woman mexican heart.

Bruce R Leech - 3-26-2006 at 12:31 PM

Not much from the stories. the only one I see is the man was still standing.

but some how in Woody's Case something was telling him that things went right. it is flight or fight when the adrinalen starts floing. and you cant argue with what your instincts are telling you to do in a situation.

Both of these people did what they thought was right at the time. and both will live with that for the rest of there lives. and I cant say who is right or wrong. but I can learn from both experiences and hopefully make better decisions when the time comes for me.

[Edited on 3-27-2006 by Bruce R Leech]

Nice story ftd. I think everyone would do as you did.

woody with a view - 3-26-2006 at 12:42 PM

Now that everyone is firmly planted on their own moral high ground, I shall confess.

The purpose of this photo was to provoke a reaction. I had three choices, play the role of the lifesaving hero, the callous gringo, or post nothing. I'm glad I made the decision to post. I also stand by the statements I made while this was still an "actual" event.

We parked on the northbound side and the man was doing something about 20? east of the road. I walked up the trail looking for some seeds and exchanged ?hola?s with the man. When I returned about five minutes later the man was crossing the road away from our truck. The man had just asked my son for some pesos who instead gave him a coke and a tamale (left over from carmelita?s) and the man walked away, into the brush. As we started to go search the west side of the highway for seeds we saw the guy enjoying his lunch and I figgered it?d make a good photo.

JR woulda got a kick outta this one.....

Woody, that is hilarious-------

Barry A. - 3-26-2006 at 12:55 PM

-----YOU are da man!!!!! I think I can hear JR now----yes, I am sure I can------- :lol:

Bruce R Leech - 3-26-2006 at 12:56 PM

I really don't know what story to believe now

Bruce R Leech - 3-26-2006 at 01:07 PM

you seamed a lot more sincere in your first posting than when you were coping out. I think I'm going to stay with believing the original post and consider the last to be an attempt to save face after you were embarrassed of posting what you did.

it is hard to say really. you put yourself and all of us in a very peccaries position.

JZ - 3-26-2006 at 01:16 PM

:lol:

You are gonna catch hell for that. Hey, we were warned that this might be made up in the first post after Woody's. vgabndo posted: "Are you just running a scam on we Nomads?"

Now if someone would only tell us JR's sudden passing was a setup!

[Edited on 3-26-2006 by JZ]

Bruce R Leech - 3-26-2006 at 01:19 PM

some one told me they saw him in a walmart last week talking with Elvis :lol:

Diver - 3-26-2006 at 01:25 PM

I don't like being manipulated.
Sounds like a cop-out to me; either way.

why cop out?

woody with a view - 3-26-2006 at 01:49 PM

i took the heat for my original statements. why take more to save face?

next time thru the area, print out my picture and you'll see i was actually standing on the road where that trail lead downstream.

The Sculpin - 3-26-2006 at 02:33 PM

All this hand wringing doesn't change a damn thing....I'd still throw a rock!

Natalie Ann - 3-26-2006 at 03:11 PM

Shees!, Woody...
Now I have a choice of believing the first story and feeling your behavior was cowardly, or I can believe this last version and feel that I've been manipulated and lied to. Count me as NOT a happy camper.
Nena

Phil C - 3-26-2006 at 04:38 PM

Don't think I'll be opening another Woody post....

Baja Bernie - 3-26-2006 at 04:51 PM

Now I'm not sure if my saying, "Baja is About People Helping People" is alive or not. It is not only things that are changing. Sad!

Tomas Tierra - 3-26-2006 at 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tomas Tierra
Looks like a nice place for a dirt nap!

Bruce R Leech - 3-26-2006 at 08:49 PM

:no:

from IBEW 569 thread

David K - 3-26-2006 at 08:53 PM

To me, for what that's worth (LOL), Woody inspired DISCUSSION. Last time I looked THIS is a discussion forum. Nothing says it HAS to be a true story... It was just a Baja story and some of you discussed about how you would deal with that situation.

A Nomad who recently 'left us' often posted stories to get Nomads to think about situations... did you forget already?

Woody, your story was very effective in creating discussion. It brought Ferna de Tijuana out to tell his desert true story... That was worth it in my opinion.

So, how about cutting Woody some slack?

Viva Baja EVERYONE?

Natalie Ann - 3-26-2006 at 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
To me, for what that's worth (LOL), Woody inspired DISCUSSION. Last time I looked THIS is a discussion forum. Nothing says it HAS to be a true story... It was just a Baja story and some of you discussed about how you would deal with that situation.

A Nomad who recently 'left us' often posted stories to get Nomads to think about situations... did you forget already?

Woody, your story was very effective in creating discussion. It brought Ferna de Tijuana out to tell his desert true story... That was worth it in my opinion.

So, how about cutting Woody some slack?

Viva Baja EVERYONE?

Frankly, I'm ready for a day without sunshine. :rolleyes:

oladulce - 3-26-2006 at 09:26 PM

Wouldn't it have had the same impact to say " What if you came across a guy in the desert..."? Wouldn't the same conversations have ensued?

The confession of a hoax detracts from, and diminishes the thoughts and opinions that the story brought out.

I think Lencho was on the right track with the concept of respect. Sorta feels like I got jerked around.

In contrast, fdt and Simone climbed even higher up the Integrity scale.

Paula - 3-26-2006 at 09:26 PM

and I'm ready for a day without Woody...

Tomas Tierra - 3-26-2006 at 09:40 PM

Oh comon now...

I just re read the whole thing...I have been talking about tthis thread for two days.. and it did make everyone think and re think what to do in similar situations...I mean really think, search deep...if it started with a "what if" it wouldn't have been taken so seriously..
DK got it right, it started good and constructive discussion...

BS or not (glad there is no dude in the desert!) good thread!

JZ - 3-26-2006 at 09:53 PM

I'll admit I felt stupid for a little bit. Just give it sometime, and you will get over it.

But I'm not really that surprised. The weird thing for me was why would he have taken a picture of the guy. I thought that was really odd/wrong.

didnt jr used to say...

eetdrt88 - 3-26-2006 at 10:29 PM

"better than tv" quite a bit about this forum...hits the nail on the head for this thread....as far as baggin on woody,i'm kinda thinkin of doin' the opposite like thankin him for makin me stop and think about something I definitely havent spent alot of time considering

David K - 3-26-2006 at 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Natalie Ann

Quote:

Frankly, I'm ready for a day without sunshine. :rolleyes:

Natalie:
How nice... not!

It is amazing that people who perscribe to the theory of openess and free press are the first to want just the oposite when their view is confronted with another opion!

So, rather than just read various opinions... you want those that oppose to just 'go away'. That's not democracy...

Woody made us think and react... big deal. Now, if a few of us say, "that should be okay", the others here want us gone! That's sad.

Natalie Ann - 3-26-2006 at 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Natalie:
How nice... not!

It is amazing that people who perscribe to the theory of openess and free press are the first to want just the oposite when their view is confronted with another opion!

So, rather than just read various opinions... you want those that oppose to just 'go away'. That's not democracy...

Woody made us think and react... big deal. Now, if a few of us say, "that should be okay", the others here want us gone! That's sad.

David - How did you get to my not wanting free press and openness from my wishing you'd be quiet on just one topic just one time?

I did not say Woody's post was not "okay", nor that the discussion was not OK... I didn't mention wanting anyone "gone". You are making things up... and that is what is sad.

As for me, I said what I meant and I meant what I said.
Period, The End.

Natalie Ann-----

Barry A. - 3-26-2006 at 11:19 PM

----What do you mean when you say, "I am ready for a day without sunshine"???????

That is so esoteric that I took it to mean the same thing that DK did----------Please explain what you mean by that statement------I am really curious.

Natalie Ann - 3-26-2006 at 11:34 PM

Repeat for Barry:

Quote:

Originally posted by Natalie Ann
David.... my wishing you'd be quiet on just one topic just one time?

David K - 3-26-2006 at 11:48 PM

Sounded to me like she wants me gone (from Nomad at least)... I said nothing about Woody's post until 'you few' attacked him for writing here, and I stood with him... I do that to others who have been unfairly treated by the few here... Long live the underdog!!

It would sure be nice if people could contribute to this forum without the rush to criticize what someone voluteered to share here...

The recent attack on Graham for killing a freaking rattlesnaske and me for posting his letters or defending him in his absense, was just so rediculous.

No wonder so many of the older contributers don't write here much or at all, anymore. You complainers make it just not worth it...

If you don't have something nice to say, how about shutting up. Constructive criticism is fine, personal insults are unwelcome by most, I would think...

[Edited on 3-27-2006 by David K]

Tomas Tierra - 3-26-2006 at 11:49 PM

lllllllllllllets get ready to rrrrrrrrrrrumble.....

Bob H - 3-26-2006 at 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by woody in ob
next time thru the area, print out my picture and you'll see i was actually standing on the road where that trail leads downstream.

I knew it! Look closely now. Bob H

Maybe I should change my handle to ScamSpotter

vgabndo - 3-27-2006 at 12:43 AM

I suppose if these forums were a bit more high brow, then sneaking in a secret moral question might be a little more "fair game". This one didn't bother me nearly as much as the one a while back from someone in Mulege, I think, which was published as truth and turned out to be a very old urban legend.

This bunch has demonstrated many times in the past that they are very appreciative of good fiction. I think it is pretty much OK with most of us to go ahead and call it that.

dos centavos, keep the change :lol:

[Edited on 3-27-2006 by vgabndo]

oladulce - 3-27-2006 at 03:19 AM

For years we've been living in this place (California) that we've grown to hate, where we don't bother to surf anymore because it's so crowded. We're here only for the work, while we're getting our real lives set up.

We go to work where it's our jobs to resusitate real dead people. Come home and pass the time on a silly BB reading stories about fake dead people.

Our lives are like the downward spiral of this thread- they suck right now. But very soon we'll hit the bottom, push off, and emerge in the sunshine and this will all be a blur.

uhhh, what was the topic?

The Sculpin - 3-27-2006 at 07:29 AM

I'm telling you guys, throwing rocks really helps! Try it! Something about hurling a million year old piece of earth through the air, only to have it crash back down where it will spend another eternity just lying there.....ohhhhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmm............

Diver - 3-27-2006 at 07:37 AM

Originally posted by Natalie Ann
David.... my wishing you'd be quiet on just one topic just one time?

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Sounded to me like she wants me gone (from Nomad at least)...
It would sure be nice if people could contribute to this forum without the rush to criticize what someone voluteered to share here...

No wonder so many of the older contributers don't write here much or at all, anymore. You complainers make it just not worth it...

If you don't have something nice to say, how about shutting up. Constructive criticism is fine, personal insults are unwelcome by most, I would think...

1. Just like you DK to take Nat's comment and martyr your poor self by exhagerating her comments ridiculously.

2. You are apparently the only valid judge of what is constructive critisizm and what is insulting (to you).

3. Unfortunately, some of our older contributors are passed. The rest may have just gotten tired of DK and left ?? And who is doing the complaining, DK: you too !?

4.You say you want "free speech" but only on your terms. Telling others to "shut-up" ?

And yes, I realize that these comments will be a waste of my typing to DK. All has been tried before. He will likely either delete his previous posts or respond to some inflated, exhagerated interpretation of my words. Worse that trying to argue with some blonds I dated in college; sometimes you just need a break (like Nat). (Although she didn't tell anyone to "shut-up".)

My personal opinion is that Woody manipulated the conversation, one way or the other. I don't like being manipulated. I think his actions were wrong. I have decided that without his apology to the board, I will not read his posts anymore. That is my right.

Frank - 3-27-2006 at 07:46 AM

Im throwing rocks..... :biggrin:

Bruce R Leech - 3-27-2006 at 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by woody in ob
Now that everyone is firmly planted on their own moral high ground, I shall confess.

The purpose of this photo was to provoke a reaction. I had three choices, play the role of the lifesaving hero, the callous gringo, or post nothing. I'm glad I made the decision to post. I also stand by the statements I made while this was still an "actual" event.

We parked on the northbound side and the man was doing something about 20? east of the road. I walked up the trail looking for some seeds and exchanged ?hola?s with the man. When I returned about five minutes later the man was crossing the road away from our truck. The man had just asked my son for some pesos who instead gave him a coke and a tamale (left over from carmelita?s) and the man walked away, into the brush. As we started to go search the west side of the highway for seeds we saw the guy enjoying his lunch and I figgered it?d make a good photo.

JR woulda got a kick outta this one.....

I am still sceptical of this post . in your photo it dose not look like a man enjoying a meal to me. I'm still thinking that you wrote the truth or more of it in the original posting.

but weather or not this is a farce I am glad you posted it and think you have every right to do so. I love the controversy and I am really surprised by the responses of some of the other Nomads.

David K - 3-27-2006 at 08:09 AM

I think that there is a big difference between free speech or constructive comments and personal attacks, hate, etc.

Why is negativity so important to you? Can't a Baja discussion forum survive without it... ?

Can't our love for Baja unite us as friends? :saint:

Tomas Tierra - 3-27-2006 at 08:47 AM

If you put the rock in a resotera (slingshot) and wing it you will have more time to pick up another and "snap" wing it.

Hang in ther Ola Dulce!!

oladulce - 3-27-2006 at 10:24 AM

Sculpin and Tomas-

Instead of hurling rocks, what if we took the really big ones and ran under water with them, like the Hawaiian guys.

The next good swell or big surf trip we'd be in such good shape that we'd get all the waves.

That would make me feel even better.

JZ - 3-27-2006 at 10:32 AM

I vote for the sunset.

Oladulce

vgabndo - 3-27-2006 at 10:55 AM

I understand what you are saying about where you live, and I REALLY HONESTLY wish it were better for you, but SoCal is only a small part of California.

Where we live, there are only about six people per square mile, we don't have to lock our doors, and we flush our toilets with exactly the same water that Dannon puts in their plastic bottles.

We need good EMTs and although it is colder and less dymanic, the snowboarding is super.

As for throwing rocks, I've found it more calming to stack them.

[Edited on 3-28-2006 by vgabndo]

Stacking Rocks

Cypress - 3-27-2006 at 11:26 AM

Best pile of rocks I ever saw! :bounce:

Thanks Cypress

vgabndo - 3-27-2006 at 12:00 PM

It will be kind of a hassle, but if you substitute an "@" in the link below, you can cut and paste it and see some other examples if it interests you. These are mostly "bio-degradable" falling with the next tide, or strong wind, or bird landing on them. Some have stood a long time. :lol:

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/sims-inspect*at*sbcglobal.net/...

[Edited on 3-27-2006 by vgabndo]

Bajabus - 3-27-2006 at 12:54 PM

Ha...LOL great thread....Don't know what I would have done...the whole Catavinia area gives me the creeps but the delegado there is a real nice guy. J.Oracio Tonche Davila. He helped me and my wife out in January when we stopped to help save the life of a man named Jim Munson general manager of Big league Dreams in Mira Loma CA. He was in bad shape when we came upon him on the side of the road near his flipped over SUV just south of Catvinia. we got him in the car, blood everywhere he was conscious but losing blood fast from a large gash in his arm. The Delegado instructed us to head north and get to the military check point and he would get an ambulance to us. As luck would have it they had a young trauma surgeon from Mexico city that trained at Fort Bragg I think it was in combat trauma. he had a whole surgical kit and cleaned out the gash took off our tourniquet and packed the wound with gauze. The Delegado came and said the ambulance would take too long so he took Mr Munson all the way to the hospital in San Quintin at top speed. A few weeks later we got a nice e-mail and subsequent tel call thanking us for stopping and helping. He said two cars passed him by while he was on the side of the road waving. I would do it again in a heart beat. But I do admit the woody scenario in that area would have given me pause.

Bus

Baja Bernie - 3-27-2006 at 04:15 PM

"you" have restored my faith in most Baja People!
Thank you!

Tomas Tierra - 3-28-2006 at 08:39 AM

Ola...If the water wasn't friggin 52 degrees I might considr it...BRRRRRR!

[Edited on 4-1-2006 by Tomas Tierra]

My goodness!

Sharksbaja - 4-3-2006 at 01:01 PM

Missing all the fun while I was away.

Sooooooooo, you want entertainment? You got it!

Is pranking yer fellow Nomads a no-no! Hmmmmmm?

I don't find this baited thread entertaining. I find it disturbing.
Dead and dying people are no fun all. Woody, have you been around many? Apparently not.

What's the point? Of course it inspired thinking. So? It also inspired fear. Fear is something not sought out here intentionnally is it? I doubt it.

I swear Osprey could have wrote this, and had he, all of of who know his writings would realize it was fiction. Now Woody on the other hand....... Can you imagine Judy posting the like. Yes, I would believe her.
Now, however, I am more the wiser.

I guess some folks take a life and death situation seriously.
I do, real ones anyway.

You bit off a big one here Woody.

Nomads never cease to amaze me.

[Edited on 4-3-2006 by Sharksbaja]

The squarecircle - 4-3-2006 at 07:07 PM

Greetings; >>>>> TRUST and TRUTH are dictionary neighbors capable of radiating warm and secure feelings!! They are my friends.. I find that reference book a more satisfying read than the previous wasted 6 long pages above.. Where is the truth and trust ---- Sign of the times maybe and yes ------ I know it takes all kinds.. >>>>> Best Regards, sq.