BajaNomad - Fix for Directv channels in southern Baja ?

Fix for Directv channels in southern Baja ?

sanfelipebob - 4-1-2006 at 04:32 PM

Did anyone figure out why we lots some channels or how we can get them back ???

Channels Moved

MrBillM - 4-1-2006 at 05:38 PM

I just posted a response to this question on Fred Metcalf's Board as follows:

This has been covered extensively in the past, including a response by a DirecTV Rep.

DirecTv moved a number of channels to an adjacent satellite in the same allocation slot. Customers within the Contiguous U.S. can receive both satellites using their existing antennas, however , as you move farther South, the apparent azimuth difference between the two becomes wider resulting in a loss of whatever channels are on the other satellite. The "Fix" is to have another dish aimed at that second satellite OR devise a mount for a second LNBF on your existing dish. One Nomad posted a photo of his adaptation during the original discussion.

Buena Suerte

link to previous discussion please ?

sanfelipebob - 4-3-2006 at 01:55 PM

I can't seem to find the page where this was discussed. Thanks for any help.

Bob and Susan - 4-3-2006 at 05:02 PM

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=15434#pid1302...

BajaNomad - 4-3-2006 at 06:02 PM

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=15169

BCSTech - 4-16-2006 at 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
DirecTv moved a number of channels to an adjacent satellite in the same allocation slot. Customers within the Contiguous U.S. can receive both satellites using their existing antennas, however , as you move farther South, the apparent azimuth difference between the two becomes wider resulting in a loss of whatever channels are on the other satellite. The "Fix" is to have another dish aimed at that second satellite OR devise a mount for a second LNBF on your existing dish. One Nomad posted a photo of his adaptation during the original discussion.

Are you sure the dual satellite setup refers to DirecTV, not Dish Network? It's true that DirecTV did have a newer satellite take over some of the channels but this satellite is virtually in the same location as the older satellite (101?). This newer satellite is more tightly focused on the U.S. and that's why the signal dropped out in Baja on the channels it's now carrying. AFAIK, you cannot distinguish between these two satellites no matter where you live.

On the other hand, Dish Network does use two main satellites for its programming in two different locations (110? and 119?) and you can pick them up by using two dishes pointed in different directions, or by using one large dish with two LNBs. LosFrailes posted a picture of his setup HERE.

BTW, a dual satellite setup in Baja may not work with certain Dish Network receivers.

DirecTV, not Dish Network

MrBillM - 4-16-2006 at 01:55 PM

The original posting regarding this DirecTv problem was answered by a DirecTv Rep whose commentary was posted on Fred Metcalfs Baja Board. DirecTV launched a satellite into the same orbital slot as the existing satellite (said slots I've read are thirty-five miles wide at that distance) and moved a number of channels to the adjacent satellite. Both satellites can be received by single-LNBF reflectors within the contiguous U.S., BUT as the receiving reflector is moved South, the apparent azimuth widens so that in Baja Sur the two can no longer be focused on by the single-LNBF unit.

I am quite familiar with the Dish Network satellite alignments since I have Dish Network at all of my receiving locations and have installed and setup dozens of Dish Net systems for others. At Rancho Percebu, my humble abode has two Dish 500 reflectors and additional reflectors aligned for 148 West and 61.5 West, in addition to my other antennas. I'm always expecting the Army patrols to stop in and ask me what all of those antennas are for.

Addendum: I am not quite sure WHY there would be a reason that multiple satellite reflectors could not be used in Baja Sur to focus on different satellites since there are numerous switches capable of combining those signals on to one coaxial feed. To see how great the variety is: http://www.futurevisionsat.com/Dish_Network.html

BTW, I just purchased (5) of their Dish EZ Remotes for $19.95 each and, although they are not claimed as Dish Branded Equipment, all Five were. A good deal.

[Edited on 4-16-2006 by MrBillM]

Dish Network

turtleandtoad - 4-16-2006 at 02:09 PM

Can't speak for DirecTV but do know something about Dish.

There are 3 satellites involved with Dish Network, 110, 119, and 129. A Dish 1000 system uses all three if you want all the HD Channels.

However, the majority of the channels that most people want are on 119.

Satellite 110 has a lot of the pay per view channels and some HD channels.

Satellite 129 has some HD channels.

below is a photo of a Dish 1000 reflector and the 3 LMB's.

Dish Network cont

turtleandtoad - 4-16-2006 at 02:14 PM

This is the standard Dish Network 1000 (minus the tripod) setup and will only work down to about Bay of L.A. in Baja or Bahia Kino on the mainland.

After that, you will need a 1 or1.2 meter reflector.

Here's a photo of the LNB's.

Diver - 4-16-2006 at 02:16 PM

You are where ?? And you didn't stop in Lyle on the way north ?
Yesterday was the easter egg hunt and a Lewis and Clark reinactment at the old elementary school playground in town.

Send me an email or u2 if your coming back this way; we have a 30 amp service and twin mountain views from our visitor's parking.

wornout - 4-16-2006 at 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
....Dish 500 reflectors and additional reflectors aligned for 148 West and 61.5 West.
[Edited on 4-16-2006 by MrBillM]

Quick question MrBillM: What do you receive on 148 and 61.5?

BCSTech - 4-16-2006 at 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
Both satellites can be received by single-LNBF reflectors within the contiguous U.S., BUT as the receiving reflector is moved South, the apparent azimuth widens so that in Baja Sur the two can no longer be focused on by the single-LNBF unit.

If the DirecTV rep said this, he is talking out of his hat. The distance to the satellites is about 22,300 miles over the equator, adding a few 1,000 for azimuth and elevation away from directly below the satellite. Even directly below the satellite at it's closest point, 35 miles of separation that far out is less than 0.1? difference when seen from the earth. A typical 6' antenna has a beamwidth of almost 1.0?. In other words, a 6' antenna would only "see" one satellite if two were that close together. They would have to be at least 400 miles apart for 1? of separation.

It would be impossible to mount two LNBs side by side on a 6' antenna that would pick up a 0.1? separation. In order for an antenna to resolve two satellites 0.1? apart, it would have to be something like 60' in diameter (think radio telescope antennas).

I'll see if I can find that post on Bill Metcalf's site. I'll post it here.

Multiple satellite reflectors do work here on Dish Network in B.C.S. just not with all their receivers. It has nothing to do with switches or cables. It has to do with DVR models and extended program guide functions on 110.

MrBillM, just curious, what size antennas are you installing?

(BTW, good buy on those remotes...)

[Edited on 4-17-2006 by BCSTech]

Clarification regarding Oribital Slots

MrBillM - 4-17-2006 at 10:48 AM

I should have worded the previous resonse a little more carefully. The orbital slot (35 miles wide) assigned to an individual satellite does not equate to degrees of separation in space which is much wider. The article describing that 35 mile assignment was one regarding the failure of Echostar 4 to achieve the correct orbit. They were able to utilize Echostar 4 after that ONLY by using the positioning motors which are normally used to correct precession during the satellite life to maintain its assigned position.

There are many cases in which satellites are assigned slots so close together that they are seen by one dish. I first ran into this years ago when I assisted a Dish Network dealer who was computer illterate in the setup of his factory supplied Gilat Skyblaster Satellite Internet system. Although I was able to line up the reflector and get a satellite acquisition signal, I could not get a satellite lock. After puzzling over the problem for an extended period, I finally called Tech Support and the answer was "you're lining up on the wrong satellite". I asked how that could be and he told me there were (5) satellites at that degree position in space and that the alignment was extremely critical to line up with the correct one. After getting that information, I was able to FINALLY find the correct one by moving in small increments until I received a lock.

The close proximity of said satellites was to prove a problem to Dish Network shortly after that. Because their installers were being a little sloppy in their installations of Sky Blaster, the Ground to Space transmitting was bleeding over onto other satellites, including DirecTV. The FCC ordered Dish Network to institute a training program for their installers or they would withdraw their certification. For a number of weeks (months ?) the SkyBlaster installs were suspended and the dealers were ordered to inspect every existing installation.

Standard Sized Dish or DirecTV antennas work fine South of San Felipe. In fact, they are being used at least as far South as Gonzaga Bay. At Percebu, I can get signal strengths in the 80s with standard-sized reflectors.

Wornout - In the past I used the East Coast Dish at 61.5 to receive additional PPV channels, Network channels, WTBS in Atlanta and some additional PBS. That was during the time period when I used a receiver maintained by a San Felipe supplier. Now that it is no longer available, there are only a few channels in the clear for my package. During the Baseball season I watched WTBS a lot for Braves games that were blacked out on the TBS network feed.

The 148 satellite originally came in to play when Dish Network was ordered by the FCC to supply customers receiving local channel packages ALL of the channels for that area rather than just the major ones. For Los Angeles, they didn't have enough space on 119 for those additional independents so they placed them on 148 and (free of charge) installed an additional reflector to acquire those channels. MOST of those channels have since been migrated to the 119 slot, leaving only a few (mostly Spanish Language) independents still on 148. In the past, I have set up a number of people south of the border who had an L.A. address with a 148 setup.

It is incorrect to say that the majority of channels you might want are on 119. When I changed to Dish 150, it was necessary to acquire 110 to gain quite a few of the available channels inc 121,133, 329, 330, 341, 342, 343, 345, 346, 347 and others.

[Edited on 4-17-2006 by MrBillM]

Speaking of DVRs

MrBillM - 4-17-2006 at 10:55 AM

It's going to be interesting to see what happens with Dish DVRs now that they lost their first round in the lawsuit by TIVO for patent infringement. Although Dish claims that they will win on appeal, nobody really believes that. I imagine the result will simply be that they will have to negotiate with TIVO for a settlement.

Al G - 4-18-2006 at 11:25 AM

Help is there someone willing to come to Todos Santos to help Chuck get his directv working again ie.. More channels

BCSTech - 4-18-2006 at 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Al G
Help is there someone willing to come to Todos Santos to help Chuck get his directv working again ie.. More channels

Well, I'm in Todos Santos but I don't think anyone is going to be able to help him get his DirecTV channels back. My customers are all switching to Dish Network for the reasons described above and elsewhere on this Forum.

losfrailes - 4-18-2006 at 03:20 PM

Not to argue with all the great logic here, but here is a picture of a 1.2 meter dish near Santa Rosalia with two dual LNB's installed. This system is pointed to and receiving tons of channels from Dish Network on the 119 and the 110 satellites.

BCSTech - 4-18-2006 at 03:58 PM

Hi losfrailes,

I think you're a little more in the hot spot up there for Dish Network than we are down here. Any dropouts in the early morning on any channels? Are you using a Dish Network receiver or...

What are your TP readings on the 1.2 for both sats? I can give you mine for 119? only on an offset Andrew 1.2 (no dual setup-1 LNB prime focus only):

01 - 0
02 - 65
03 - 0
04 - 62
05 - 0
06 - 61
07 - 67
08 - 63
09 - 0
10 - 60
11 - 58
12 - 62
13 - 55
14 - 59
15 - 54
16 - 61
17 - 52
18 - 59
19 - 53
20 - 57
21 - 52

Oversize Universal Antennas

MrBillM - 4-18-2006 at 06:24 PM

Check out this site both for general info AND for a variety of antenna setups: http://www.global-cm.net/multifeedsys.html

DirecTV Channels Moved

MrBillM - 4-28-2006 at 09:29 PM

The satellite in question is DirecTV 8 launched in May 2005 into the 101 deg west slot along with DirecTV 1R, DirecTV 2 and DirecTV 4S. It was placed in service beginning in the Fall of 2005.

Al G - 4-30-2006 at 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
Check out this site both for general info AND for a variety of antenna setups: http://www.global-cm.net/multifeedsys.html

BCSTech, Have you tried any alternates like these or are you just a Dishworks dealer? I have heard of 2m dishes. Have you tried them? If you are not interested, please let me know. I am a long time Directv user and don't want to change. I will go a long way to find an alternate to dishwork.

Directv

Al G - 4-30-2006 at 05:00 PM

Is there anyone La Paz and below using an alternate antenna for Directv?

comitan - 4-30-2006 at 06:58 PM

Al

We have quite a few people here with direct tv, some with 2m dishes some with 1.2 nobody I know has 2 dish. They still only get 1/2 of what they used to.

DirecTV 8 Coverage

MrBillM - 4-30-2006 at 07:22 PM

Although I've spent some time looking through resources for a coverage map indicating the footprint and signal strengths for DirecTV 8, So far I've been unsuccessful. The footprints for the previously existing DirecTV satellites at the 101 slot show a prime focus signal strength of around 54dbw (Central U.S.) down to less than 38dbw in the Southern Baja region. One would expect the new satellite to have a similar footprint, but who knows ? It may be that the effective footprint simply doesn't exist that far down.

BCSTech - 4-30-2006 at 09:48 PM

Hi Al G. You wrote:

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
Check out this site both for general info AND for a variety of antenna setups: http://www.global-cm.net/multifeedsys.html

The new satellite, DirecTV 8, has a tighter footprint on the U.S. than its companion. There is simply less spill over into Baja. That's why you can't see the channels that were moved to the new transponders. It has nothing to do with setting up a dual feed to separate the signals from two colocated satellites, regardless of what the DirecTV Rep said. I've been in this business for 20 years, and I can tell you he's full of feathers.

The information in the link MrBillM posted is intended for U.S. customers seeking a multiple satellite system capable of picking up multiple Dish Network or DirecTV satellites in the U.S. under normal signal footprint conditions. None of these dishes/feed configurations will work here, nor could they ever be used to separate two colocated satellites no matter where you are.

I have used two 6' (1.8 meter) antennas to pick up the 119? and 110? Dish Network satellites and losfrailes has done the same using one 1.2 meter dish. But, remember, he and I are talking about Dish Network satellites and not DirecTV. Different companies, different satellites.

The DirecTV signal is simply too weak now on half of the channels to receive them here with a conventional-sized DBS antenna. I have read of someone near Mexico City who was able to get some DirecTV reception for _part_ of the day on the missing channels using a 3.1 meter (10') antenna.

I haven't set up a 10' here to try to recover the missing DirecTV channels and I probably won't. It's not that I'm not interested but I doubt many of my customers will want to go back to a 10' dish again and I sure don't want to spend my money on one. I can get better reception for less hassle and cheaper using 1.2 to 1.8 meter antennas on Dish Network. I'm not a Dish Network dealer by choice but by necessity. I had DirecTV too until it went down.

If you install a 10' antenna for DirecTV, let me know how it works.

[Edited on 5-1-2006 by BCSTech]

BCSTech - 4-30-2006 at 10:01 PM

I forgot to add that I have not specifically tested a 2 meter (6.5') antenna. But I have tested 6.0' (1.8 meter) antennas on both DirecTV and Dish Network. From the total absense of those DirecTV channels on the 6 footers, I can guarantee you that adding another 6" will not bring them back.

Al G - 4-30-2006 at 10:39 PM

Thanks BCSTech,
I will stop to talk and I am now sure Chuck will be in shortly. I finally get it and that means everyone else will too.
I now have a duel tuner Samsung Directv DVR w/Tivo. Will I have to get new Dish equipment?
Albert

Directway

Al G - 4-30-2006 at 10:42 PM

Also I was going to use Directway, but now will need to do something else??? Got any answers?

BCSTech - 5-1-2006 at 06:04 AM

Hi Al G,

Sorry to say, you will need a Dish Network tuner. We have dual units with DVR or you can buy one in the states. You may be able to sell your DirecTV tuner thru eBay, Craigslist or elsewhere. I'm starting to get a collection of them and don't know what to do with them myself.

DirecWay uses another satellite. No problems there. I'm using a DirecWay system at this moment to make this post.

Are you in TS? Best to call me if you are in the area. I'm hardly ever at the store.

The Other Half

MrBillM - 5-1-2006 at 09:05 AM

Another factor which might weigh in favor of a changeover to Dish Network is the fact that the channels lost to DirecTV 8 were part of a migration to move channels away from an aging satellite. Given the current experience, you might expect that when the time comes to migrate the remaining channels to newer equipment, the same profile would probably be employed. That, of course, could take years, but who knows ?

DirecTV 1R at 101 deg was launched in 1999.

DirecTV 9S is scheduled for launch in the second quarter of 2006 and will be deployed at either the 101 deg slot OR the 119 as a backup for either 4S or 7S. 4S was launched into the 101 slot to provide extensive spotbeam transmission.

A Final Word of Agreement.
------------------------------------
According to Lyngsat.com, BOTH DirecTV 1R and the new DirecTV 8 are located at a nominal 100.73 degrees West and show almost exactly the same Azimuth and Elevation computations for La Paz ( 24.07N / 110.17W) i.e. at 23.78N / 110.23W Satellite D1R shows: 157.69 / 60.16 and D8 shows: 157.48 / 60.13. This confirms that the problem is the Satellite's footprint rather than location. No luck for BCS.

BTW - http://www.lyngsat.com is an excellent resource for both satellite info and pointing information for ANY satellite you may be interested in.

[Edited on 5-1-2006 by MrBillM]

BCSTech - 5-1-2006 at 05:06 PM

Hey Al G.,

I should add that DirecWay and DirecTV are two completely different companies and no longer related. What affects one service does not affect the other.

MrBillM, thanks for that link

Happy TV Junkie

rocknrog - 5-24-2006 at 08:18 PM

I had direct tv in loreto, have lost so may channels I gave up on it and now have star choice, had to pay to get a canada address but I feel it was worth ever penny, star choice it's a great system we are very happy with it,the man that got us are system is named Frank, his # is 623-202-1380, the cost per month is between 30 and 80 a month, the whole thing cost me 345.00 plus shipping to my states address. Happy TV Junkie