BajaNomad - UNIDENTIFIED BODY FOUND IN LORETO

UNIDENTIFIED BODY FOUND IN LORETO

PATTON - 6-14-2006 at 08:33 PM

In January 2006 the body of a young man, in his late 20s or perhaps 30, was found at El Bajo a few miles north of the town of Loreto. Photographs of his face and identifying abdominal scars are posted at the police station in Loreto, yet no one has been able to identify him. It has been six months since his death, and he was long-ago buried in the Loreto pante?n and forgotten. Police say he "probably died of dehydration." There is a HIGH probability that he was one of the hundreds and hundreds of young men brought to Loreto from mainland Mexico to build Loreto Bay. The police said they have no further investigating to do. When asked if the photo had been shown to all the construction companies, they said no. Somewhere there is a mother, or a wife and children, far away, awaiting paychecks and the eventual return of their loved one. Sadly, this young man made a one-way trip to Loreto. Sadly his family must think he simply abandoned them.

villadelfin - 6-14-2006 at 10:03 PM

PATTON, what are you trying to say?

jerry - 6-14-2006 at 10:43 PM

villadelfin i didnt detect patton studdering?? dont kill the messenger

TMW - 6-15-2006 at 06:58 AM

I read it as saying the cops were too lazy to investigate who he is, where he's from and/or where he worked if at all. Died of thirst, case closed.

Bruce R Leech - 6-15-2006 at 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TW
I read it as saying the cops were too lazy to investigate who he is, where he's from and/or where he worked if at all. Died of thirst, case closed.

that is kind of what I got out of it also.

burro bob - 6-15-2006 at 02:25 PM

What's so hard to understand about what this message?
The last sentence tells you why it was posted.
burro bob

[Edited on 6-15-2006 by burro bob]

villadelfin - 6-15-2006 at 04:54 PM

I will rephrase my original question: PATTON, what is the significance of this post?

The man died a year ago.
Police concluded the death was accidental.

Am I, as a reader of your posting, to become emotionally involved? Should I curse development in Loreto bay that lured this man to his death? Do you question the police findings?

Stickers - 6-15-2006 at 06:15 PM

Here in So Cal we have had many deaths in the construction industry of transient workers (illegals). They were decent hard working and honorable men. They came here asking for nothing except a days wage to send home to a family in an impoverished village. It is always a great tragedy when this happens. We can only hope that their families are notified.

Slavery of our olden days?

noproblemo2 - 6-15-2006 at 09:56 PM

There is a HIGH probability that he was one of the hundreds and hundreds of young men brought to Loreto from mainland Mexico to build Loreto Bay. This sadly sounds of our olden days of slavery here in the US, with hundreds of slaves being brought here and sold... Very sad

Bringing myself up to speed

villadelfin - 6-16-2006 at 02:43 PM

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=15432&pag...

I just spent the last three hours reading this thread because I wanted to educate myself on the Loreto Bay project. Okay, so now I get it.

But I still don't understand why PATTON made his/her post, and similar to "friend of Baja" why the original thread poster has sniped and moved on. PATTON? PA TTON, where are you?

[Edited on 6-16-2006 by villadelfin]

longlegsinlapaz - 6-16-2006 at 04:10 PM

I'd imagine that Patton posted this originally because he's got compassion & cares that there is a family out there somewhere that has no idea of what happened to their son/husband/father/brother. The fact that the cause of death was established does not, nor should, in my mind, mean the case should be closed. This is a country that reveres their dead. In my humble opinion, the police should have shown his picture around to construction companies & the workers to see if anyone could identify him and inform his family rather than bury his as a Juan Doe. There IS someone somewhere who cares!

Patton cared enough to post this as his FIRST post & and he gets a bunch of flack! Kudos to noproblemo2, Stickers, burro bob, Bruce & Jerry for speaking up in understanding of this post.

Occasionally there are threads about "lurkers", people who lurk without posting, or post very infrequesntly...the negative comments in this thread are a prime example of why people lurk. Not everyone has big brass balls, not everyone feels the idea of a good time is to knowingly place their neck on the verbal chopping block of some of the less considerate people on this site. There are a LOT of thoughtful & considerate people on this site...that's my observation from a lurkers perspective, because I only personally know one poster! It's one thing for the "old-timers" to harrangue other "old-timers" (even I can identify those instances); it's a whole nuther thing to harrangue a first-time poster who gives a damn about humanity. :fire:

A few of you are SO FRIGGIN THOUGHTLESS!! :fire:

Maybe some of us need a refresher course in the Golden Rule. Put yourself in this position, wouldn't YOU hope that YOUR family would be notified if it was YOUR body that was found?

Right after the anticipated onslaught of crap, I'll undoubtedly be returning to the anonymous relative safety of the lurker mode!

Go girl !!!

Stickers - 6-16-2006 at 04:31 PM

Thank you Longlegs, well said.
I am sure most Nomad forum readers and posters agree with your comments. Intimidation only diminishes what this forum can ultimately accomplish and I am sure that is not what Doug (Ultimate Nomad), wanted when he went to all the trouble to put it together.

Living in Baja you have the experience that we all seek and want you to share with us.

Please do not lurk it would be a waste.

Rick

Bodies

MrBillM - 6-16-2006 at 04:58 PM

For years my wife and I have discussed what we would do if we were to run across a dead body in the Baja desert. One thing we are completely in agreement on. Just keep Driving.

vandenberg - 6-16-2006 at 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
For years my wife and I have discussed what we would do if we were to run across a dead body in the Baja desert. One thing we are completely in agreement on. Just keep Driving.

We wouldn't expect anything else from you. :tumble:

No wish to be involved with Mexican Law Enforcement.

MrBillM - 6-16-2006 at 05:24 PM

That's really the primary reason, but so what. Say you run across a body. Nothing you can do is going to help them. They're still going to be dead and you're going to be stuck trying to work your way through the system. Not Me !

Hmm

MrBillM - 6-16-2006 at 05:59 PM

Now, that's a thought. I guess that it would depend upon the appearance AND age of the corpse. If it looked like there could be a chance of picking up a decent payday, well, maybe.

Then again, there's that age thing. There's nothing quite like the smell of a dead body that's aged a little. When I was working down in Hemet and renting an apartment down there, I came in from YV one monday a.m. and when I got out of my truck, I could smell that unmistakeable aroma coming from the end apartment. I went in and called the landlord to tell him the tenant had died and to bring a mask.

vandenberg - 6-16-2006 at 06:16 PM

Quote:

.
. When I was working down in Hemet and renting an apartment down there, I came in from YV one monday a.m. and when I got out of my truck, I could smell that unmistakeable aroma coming from the end apartment. I went in and called the landlord to tell him the tenant had died and to bring a mask.

You, renting an apartment? And here I was always under the impression that you were American nobility, living like somewhere in Hearst Castle. Wonders never seeze. :lol:

Debra - 6-16-2006 at 08:04 PM

Well said "longlegs"! and welcome to Nomads.

Bruce R Leech - 6-16-2006 at 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
That's really the primary reason, but so what. Say you run across a body. Nothing you can do is going to help them. They're still going to be dead and you're going to be stuck trying to work your way through the system. Not Me !

if I came across your dead body I would think about your poor family and report it as soon as possible. :saint:

Well, I do consider myself a Noble person, but....

MrBillM - 6-16-2006 at 09:05 PM

I (was) just another worker bee, albeit at a fairly good wage.

I realize that you're being sarcastic, but many of the people working with me thought I was being extravagant to rent an apartment only 60 miles one way from my home simply to avoid the one-hour drive each way. Luckily, the job paid well enough for me to indulge myself, especially since I was able to post enough OT (on paper, anyway) to pay for the apartment. When I worked for GTE in Palm Springs I got so fed up with the 80 mile roundtrip each day, I swore I'd never do it again so I rented an apartment that was 5 minutes from the work location. Money WELL spent, even with the occasional Dead Body.

[Edited on 6-17-2006 by MrBillM]

Paulina - 6-16-2006 at 10:28 PM

Quote:

I know of someone who came across a dead body in the desert. He drove back to town and reported his 'find' to a very well respected member of the community. After this elderly gentleman was sure of the body's location, his words were, "You didn't find that body. I did." I'm sure he had an idea of what the American would possibly go through should he have reported it to the authorities.

[Edited on 17-6-2006 by Paulina]

Patton

Sharksbaja - 6-17-2006 at 12:16 AM

Kudos for being human.

Ditto for legs.

Villa, indulge yourself :

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=1432

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=9072#pid73949

PATTON - 6-17-2006 at 07:55 AM

Hello again. It all started when I went to the police station in Loreto to get my Mexican driver's license the day before we headed north. Across the room a photograph was posted on the wall. I assumed it was the face of a most-wanted criminal, and I walked over to take a look. I was stunned. The picture was not the face of a hardened criminal, but that of a young man. His face, in death, was simply a kind one. His lips were badly chapped. His hair was curly and his body looked young and strong. That afternoon, I happened to be meeting friends for lunch at La Picazon, the little restaurant along the dirt road to El Bajo?the road of the young man's death walk. At lunch I asked the owner if she happened to know any more about the case. I was startled when she matter-of-factly said she had met him as she was driving into town in January. She thought perhaps he was lost, so she stopped to talk to him. He said he was "headed for the highway" and she suggested he turn around and go back through town?that he was on the wrong road. She handed him her partial-full bottle of water she had in the car and continued on her day. She said he was wearing a green jacket and had nothing with him. I asked her if he looked like he was drunk or on drugs, and she said no. He was responsive and took the bottle of water. His body was found later that week.

I believe that with compasion and caring on the part of anyone in Loreto, he could be identified with relatively little effort. I guess I just regret I am not there to continue asking questions, or to show his photo to each and every one of the hundreds of Loreto Bay workers until I found the group he arrived with in town. I believe if asked, someone will answer with his name and place of origin. It only takes the time to ask. Anyone in Loreto has an opportunity to give that silent gift to his family.

Diver - 6-17-2006 at 08:33 AM

Well, I guess he told you guys ! :lol:

Good karma, PATTON !

Don Alley - 6-18-2006 at 03:43 PM

New homes are being offered to North Americans at costs of $300 per square foot or more in the Loreto area. In return for building these North American priced homes for North Americans, Mexican workers receive low Mexican-level wages and often poor living conditions. And it has been suggested that in this case, a worker was considered too insignificant to rate an investigation sufficient to even establish his identity after death.

Maybe the man should have slipped across the northern border, illegally, looking for work. He couldn't be worse off, could he?

Then again, on either side of the border, the name of the game is to find the cheapest source of labor, with little consideration for law or justice.

bajajudy - 6-18-2006 at 03:49 PM

You are a good man, Patton.
I hope someone will take up your cause.

Kudos

Baja Bernie - 6-18-2006 at 04:23 PM

to both newby's for caring. Hope you can ignore the slings and arrows of a few and stay with us.

We need you lurkers to come out and help balance this forum with positive vibes.

Paula - 6-18-2006 at 05:32 PM

It is a crime that Mexican and other non-resident workers anyplace can disappear with no one concerned about what has become of them.
Patton, did the woman at La Picazon say if he had said he was a Loreto Bay worker? As I remember, in January, this was assumed but not known. I had also heard around that time that a number of workers had walked off the job.
I would like to think that if I owned a business that employed people who were away from their homes and families that I would check up on them if they went missing. If a worker simply didn't show up for a few days, I think I would talk to his co-workers to learn if he is OK, and then to the police if I didn't find him. Had his employer reported him missing, they at least would know who he was.

Place the blame where it lays

Dave - 6-18-2006 at 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Don Alley
In return for building these North American priced homes for North Americans, Mexican workers receive low Mexican-level wages and often poor living conditions. And it has been suggested that in this case, a worker was considered too insignificant to rate an investigation sufficient to even establish his identity after death.

It is MEXICAN contractors, who often intentionally fail to pay IMSS and other benefits, who hire low-wage MEXICAN workers.

And it would be MEXICAN police who would determine whether a death was insignificant or that a case should merit investigation.

Don Alley - 6-18-2006 at 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Hey, you can place the blame wherever you want.

I'm just suggesting that a system that allows US and Canadian investors to walk away with big profits CALCULATED largely on low labor costs may reach a point of injustice, particularly in a case of a worker dying such an anonymous death. I also imply a certain irony in a system where Americans blame Mexico for the prevailing low wages that drive illegal immigration, yet Americans rely on those same low wages to make their growing Mexican investments more profitable, and wouldn't dream of interfering with the Mexican contractors they hire.

:biggrin:

Don Alley - 6-19-2006 at 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Braulio
Originally posted by Don Alley
Hey, you can place the blame wherever you want.

Where would you place the blame Don? What would you have the Amereicans do - not go to Mexico - not legally buy there? Would Mexico be better off then?

Originally posted by Don Alley

may reach a point of injustice,

I think we may have already arrived.

[Edited on 6-19-2006 by Braulio]

Developers, contractors and buyers:

People set up a system to insulate themselves-and their money-as much as possible from the Mexican worker. Foreign enclaves bought from foreign companies that employ Mexican subcontractors to hire the workers. So we have a peninsula awash in both gringo dollars and Mexican poverty.

I'm not convinced this is a Mexican problem. Western economies function best when there is a balance between laissez-faire capitalism and government and unions protecting the interests of workers.

Those days have yet to reach Mexico, where a few families own almost everything. And they are disappearing from the USA, where manufacturing and now even service jobs are outsourced overseas, minimum wages stay flat, CEO pay skyrockets, and we see once unimaginable displays of wealth among the few, like spending over $150,000,000 for a painting.

I don't think you have to be a communist or socialist...I just think the Golden Rule should have some influence on business models. (No, not "those with the gold, rule.") In the long run, keeping a class in povery to reduce prices to the well off and to increase profits to the very well off results in a dangerous imbalance that leads to instability...if not revolution then increased crime and lawlessness.

Police:
Loreto is faced with very rapid growth. Only a few years ago said to have 10-12 thousand people, recently the munincipal presidente claimed two-year growth of 5000 people. For government services, that can cause problems. For the police, the quantity of work, from traffic work, to disturbances, to crime, rises. And as the city grows, bringing in new peoples and more money, the nature of the crimes change as well. Murder was not much of a concern in "sleepy little Loreto," but if/when we reach the projected 150-250 thousand people it will happen. Local police simply are not equipped with the manpower, the expertise or the experience to deal with these new challenges. More funds are needed for training, for more personel, and for more pay. And it has to be done NOW before a culture of apathy takes hold. But there is no money for these things in Baja.

Just money to turn beautiful beaches into strips of palatial houses, mazes of condos, towering hotels and sprawling golf courses. There's always money for that. And with the arrival of Gated Communities, safety and security also become commodities reserved for the wealthy, so maybe we don't need more or better police.

SiReNiTa - 6-19-2006 at 04:05 PM

ok ok ok i?'m not big on investments i guess i don't understand much about it...but really how can you place the blame on other mexicans...mayb it was an accident maybe not..i agree the police should have looked in to it...but hey...it's like saying alll mexicans are to blame because of one man...rest in peace...and to every one who showed compassion thank you...i just want to remind you it could be a member of your family or mine that is missing one day and i am sure we will not like it a bit!