BajaNomad

FISHING - BAJA GEAR

Summanus - 11-8-2006 at 01:03 PM

Do you fish? Do you love to spend a whole day relaxing in a good Baja boat? I f so, I would like your opinion and info on: Fishing rods, reels, lines, lures, and your favorite fish-catching methods.

My December birthday is coming up and I have been given a kitchen pass to shop-till-I-drop for all things fishing. I will soon be fishing the Cortez mostly from Loreto to Sta. Rosalia, Magdelena Bay, and maybe a trip to San Ignacio lagoon or Pta. Abrejos.

I would like to know what Nomad fishermen think are good choices of the above list. I will be fishing for lots of different species and will adjust to any and all methods that catch them! So here we go:

What rod, reel, line, terminal tackle, hook or lure, fish species, and presentation is your favorite for these?

1. Making bait
2. Baitfishing
3. Trolling
4. Jigging
5. Casting
6. Any other method or trickery

When my wife belatedly asked how much I would like to spend..I said, "Would you put a price on a pacemaker?"

Thanks for your input and participation. If I ever get this right..or even close... I will die a happy camper. :)

[Edited on 11-9-2006 by Summanus]

Don Alley - 11-8-2006 at 01:38 PM

Making Bait: A short rod, maybe 6ft, high speed 6:1 reel, like a Speedmaster, 30lb line.
Baitfishing: 7foot rod, 30lb for surface bait for dorado, roosterfish, sailfish, maybe a surface yellowtail bite. Baitfishing the bottom for yellowtail, short rod, 50lb main line, lever drag reel.
Trolling: Short rod, 30-40 lb test. Maybe 40lb for striped marlin, for big blues and blacks heavier stuff than I ever use.
Jigging and casting: Casting surface iron, 8ft 30lb, high speed reel. Deep jigging, 6 1/2-7ft rod, 40-50 lb, at least 4:1 retrieve speed.
Inshore: 15 and 20 lb outfits. I prefer casting but spinning works too.

All recommendations are gross generalizations. Really swell rods are made by Calstar and Seeker. I also like Shikari blanks for my rods. I also really like Avet reels. But there is lots of great stuff out there, more and better stuff than ever.

You can spend a year reading archived posts on the west coast fishing sites: Allcoast Sportfishing, Senor Tuna, and Bloodydecks. EVERYTHING about Baja-type fishing.

For on-line ordering, I like Charkbait.com. The best online catalog for browsing, too.

Thanks Don

Bajamatic - 11-8-2006 at 01:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Don Alley
Charkbait.com. The best online catalog for browsing, too.


There goes the rest of my day.

Al G - 11-8-2006 at 03:08 PM

I don't know enough to advise anyone, but the most important is rod, reel, hooks, chair and beer. Oh, take one beer on boat for that that ride in...NO more until you are cleaning those bad boys at home.
Where is Pompano when you need him???:lol::lol:

Thanks Don Alley good info...

vgabndo - 11-8-2006 at 03:37 PM

Most of my fishing for the past dozen years has been inshore either direction from San Nicolas. I've always called it Gene Kira fishing for good reason. He wrote the bible: The Baja Catch. I don't think you can do any better for a source of information on that specialty.

I STILL put most of my faith in a jointed Rebel fastrack in orange over gold. Just like Gene said.:yes:

toneart - 11-8-2006 at 03:47 PM

I can tell this is going to be a long string. I too am new at fishing in The Sea of Cortez so I will be reading with interest. My brand new casita in Mulege was pretty well trashed in the flood but a couple of Mexican friends managed to tow my Panga to higher ground and saved it. I had just bought it in April and was ironing out some fuel feed problems and was getting to know the boat. Then I left in may, so I am really looking forward to getting it back on the water. I will be there around the first of the year.

To answer your questions, I went online to cabelas.com and did a live chat with one of their representatives. I told him I wanted to do a variety of fishing; mostly trolling and bottom fishing. Here's what he recommended, and I bought:
Shimano Torium Casting Reel in combo with Cabela's Salt Striker rod. The gear ratio on the reel is 6.2:1 The price for the combo was $255. He recommended 30lb test for the line.

I lost all the new lures, weights and hooks in the flood. I had bought quite a variety which was recommended by a fanatical fisherfriend whose opinion I respect. I also took recommendations from the owners of La Tienda in Mulege. They are pricey but they have a lot and they are there.

If you are in Mulege, look me up: The Orchard, #90. Summanus, do you have a boat? You are welcome to join me when in Mulege. I think we might even find some beer.:cool:

Al G - 11-8-2006 at 04:40 PM

Now I need to find someone to show me, where when, and how...:biggrin:

[Edited on 11-9-2006 by Al G]

Alan - 11-9-2006 at 12:09 AM

What great questions. To give you the proper answers we would really need to put our feet up under a palapa somewhere and discuss these issues in earnest over a couple of those "faulty" Pacificos that are just forming ice crystals.

You've got some great categories for the different types of fishing but there is more to it than that. Are you fishing from your own boat or do you plan to charter pangas and cruisers? What is your strength and stature. A big YT or 50# YFT on a nine or ten foot jig stick is not for everyone. Do you prefer working fish on lighter line or do you prefer heavier line and going mano-o-mano with the fish?

You obviously understand the need to have a selection of equipment (nobody golfs with just one club) but the number one rule is when possible always choose quality over quantity. All of us have made concessions in our purchases at one time or another so don't let that put you off but make knowledgeable choices when doing so. You don't want to have to fight your equipment AND the fish. My personal preferences are Calstar and Seekers for my rods and most of my reels are Shimano Trinidads along with a few Penn Intn'ls. Yes the Tiagras are probably even better reels but I've have a soft spot for my Intn'ls. I absolutely love the feel of the Trinidads and the way they fish. I've heard the Toriums are nearly identical to the Trinidads at significant savings but not having used them I can't comment. I do have a couple of Newell's that I love. They will cast a mile and I have never experienced any of the problems others have reported. Whistler provided an excellent list that will cover all of your bases. My own list is a little different but that is based on MY strength, stature and preferences.

Trolling I like the Calstar 6455xxh with a Penn 30SW with 60-80#
Live bait- marlin I use a Calstar 700M with the Trinidad 40 and 40#
For slinging jigs on 20# I love a Calstar 196L-8 with a Newell 229
For smaller baits a Calstar 800xlh and the TN16N.
20-25# is covered with a 700L and a TN16 or 20
10-12# is handled by a Calcutta 400 on a Seeker 858
A hole I plan to fill this Xmas is a 40# Jig stick. I've have already decided on the TN40N just not sure which one of the new rootbeer colored Super Seekers I want to match it to. Really like those ULUAS.

I'm going to need another Pacifico before we jump into lures and tackle :lol:

Summanus - 11-9-2006 at 11:39 AM

Many thanks, guys.

Those are all great ideas which will I think will give us many memories and a welcome fish dinner now and then. I will most likely be 'catch-and-release' fishing, but will occasionaly fillet one for us and/or a friend.

Don Alley, thanks for that Charkbait site...I love it! I gotta get a catelog for my bathroom. And I have visited a few of those other fishing forums and sites, but prefer to visit here on Nomads. There is a lot of knowledge on them, but it seems more familiar here.

Al G, I agree. My chair is very comfy, swivels 360, and my cooler will be always packed fresh daily with ice, lunch, and Pacificos. The disappearing Pacificos will make room for my prize fish. This is an ungoing education we are enrolled in...always room for more.

vgabndo, sounds like you live in a nice place for fishing...San Nicolas. I will add that lure and book you mentioned to my shopping list. Gracias.

toneart, thanks for the boat/beer invite. I will look you up when we get to Mulege..but the beers are on me. I have a nice boat and trailer that is most likely good for anything not too far from shore..also for trailering to places I really need to go..like Mag Bay, Agua Verde, San Ignacio lagoon, Abrejos(?), and from Loreto to the Bay of Los Angeles. This will, hopefully, take me some time.

whistler, those are some rods/reels I have on my list, along with some of Don Alley's. A friend recently brought his latest Newell reel over to show me it's features..quite impressive. I would love to flyfish for dorado around those floating kelp patties! Hmmm...does 'Gene Kira' exclusively trollfish? Is that the most productive...maybe to cover more ground?

Alan, I second the palapa session with some cold ones. Nothing sounds better about now. For your questions, I am about 270lbs, over 6', limber as a rock..but willingly abuse my tired muscles with outdoor activities, like casting and wading a river wet after tripping and filling my waders. For sure mano y mano with a chance at a record fish..or any fish for that matter. I can spend some time on a rockpile or miles out at sea. I have written down your choices, too...and along with the other suggestions I will heft and play with all before chooosing my own. Pretty nice task, no?

I like the thought of using the lightest gear possible to do the job of bringing the fish to the boat...or to wherever I may be fishing from..rock, beach, or pier. I would like to give that white sea bass surf-fishing a try from Laguna Manuela, ..north of Guererro Negro a few miles.

So far, looks like I will be buying at least 4 rods, and 4 reels (with good speed ratios)...plus the lightest line for various uses.

Now as to those lures and other stuff.........!?!!

...and then let's say I am going to buy, create, or make some 'bait'...what, where, when, how? My current bait tank needs a new pump and may be too small besides for the baits of Baja.

Pull up a chair, grab a cold brew, and let's talk fishing....nothing else I would rather do.

Al G - 11-9-2006 at 11:57 AM

Summanus...If your boat could handle a Tuna tube, it sure is neat for Bonito bait. Only used 3 on hook all day. No bill fish found though. I think the idea is sound...bait maybe wrong.

Summanus - 11-9-2006 at 12:14 PM

Al G...Tuna tube? This I have to have..

Paulina - 11-9-2006 at 12:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Summanus

My December birthday is coming up and I have been given a kitchen pass to shop-till-I-drop for all things fishing.

[Edited on 11-9-2006 by Summanus]


WOW! :oWhat I wouldn't give for that!! The last time Dern made the mistake of stopping in the tackle shop real quick for a few things, he made the mistake of letting me go in too....It's like going to a Costco, you can't get out the door without spend a couple of bills.
Have fun!!
P>*)))><

Al G - 11-9-2006 at 03:39 PM

Summanus...forgot to say these are the smaller size tubes. Maybe 20" long X 6" diameter. Hope someone else can give you more insight...I am not an expert. The Bonito swim about 200 mph in them but go nowhere.:lol::lol:

Osprey - 11-9-2006 at 04:20 PM

Summanus, I don't have all the fancy equipment some of the above posters use and none of my stuff is new, except!!!! LINE. My advice is to buy good line, change it often, buy some more. Don't buy up the store until you get down here, figure out what you're using. There are plenty of places to get new line. If you keep your equipment maintained and change your line early and often you'll have more luck. Luck is the residue of design.

Hook - 11-9-2006 at 06:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by vgabndo
Most of my fishing for the past dozen years has been inshore either direction from San Nicolas. I've always called it Gene Kira fishing for good reason. He wrote the bible: The Baja Catch. I don't think you can do any better for a source of information on that specialty.

I STILL put most of my faith in a jointed Rebel fastrack in orange over gold. Just like Gene said.:yes:


I have to correct one thing. This style of fishing was perfected by Neil Kelly (rest his soul), not Gene Kira. Based on the original versions of The Baja Catch, Gene was really the writer who recorded what Neil did. At least that's the way I read it.

I dont know if that's changed in the newer versions. My copy is the 2nd printing, I believe.

Hook - 11-9-2006 at 06:34 PM

Summanus, I'm with Osprey.

There is so much good used equipment for sale these days. Due to the increasing cost of LR trips, boat fuel, etc., lots of guys are selling their stuff cheap. We're talking good stuff by Diawa, Shimano, Calstar, ProGear, etc.

Then there's the admitted tackle 'hos who are constantly changing out their reels every year it seems.

Go to the buy and sell board over at allcoastsportfishing.com. Very active board for tackle. Their tackle board is also excellent for tips on what to buy and how to maintain.

Summanus - 11-9-2006 at 06:43 PM

Osprey and Hook, many thanks. Good quality fishing lines and saving some bucks on good used tackle. allcoastsportfishing...Now I know what I will be reading till the wee hours tonight.

Osprey and all, anybody got preferences on line brands? A saleman at Squidco in San Diego off Midway mentioned Ande in large rolls as being a good buy...okay stuff?

p.s. have been pondering the best knot for line to tackle. I have the blood cinch down pretty good, but imagine there are other favorites.

Plus I have been garnering notes from Al G's thread on this same subject. Glad to be online with the same ideas at the same time!!

[Edited on 11-10-2006 by Summanus]

Osprey - 11-9-2006 at 07:05 PM

Can't beat Jinkai for leader, Bear line for billfish, perfection knot for everything above 65# if you don't have all the sleeves you need.

Summanus - 11-9-2006 at 07:11 PM

Osprey, thanks. I have not seen those brands yet, but will ask about them manana or this weekend. I'm not familiar with the perfection knot, but I have a knot diagram Internet site so I will check it out. I also recall seeing some sleeves and will buy an assortment.

Summanus - 11-10-2006 at 01:14 AM

Here is a needful thing for my boat... some words on a plaque attached to my boat bulkhead.

Recently, while browsing the Internet fishing sites, I came across a great peice of writing by a flyfisherman named Robert Traver. I was reminded of the reasons why I want to fish so much. Here it is, a short article named

TESTAMENT OF A FISHERMAN

"I fish because I love to: because I love the environs where trout are found, which are invariably beautiful. Because mercifully there are no phones on trout waters; because only in the woods can I find solitude without loneliness. Because one day I will catch a mermaid and finally not because I regard fishing as being so terribly important but because I suspect that so many of the other cares of men are equally unimportant and not nearly so much fun."

I wanted to share this with you...and also warn any guests who may come aboard my boat that if you mention politics once..you should be a good swimmer.;D

Alan - 11-10-2006 at 08:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by whistler
Alan you must be a lot tougher than me.I had a 6465xxh,hurt me bad.Same with the 700h. Might have been okay if I cut 6 inches off of it.ULUA! You are a lot tougher than me!

I'm not that tough. I use the 6455 not the 6465. It's only 5'6" to reduce the leverage. At 9'3" I'm not sold on the ULUA yet but I have heard a lot of good about them. The length is what is making me stop and think first. I'm only 5'9.

RichardCranium - 11-10-2006 at 08:48 AM

40# pink ande line. Good hi speed reel capable of holding said line. and a solid one peice 7 ft rod. 5 krocs in various weights and colors. 5 4" sardine pattern plastics with 3/4 oz lead heads. 5 rebels or repalas in salt water sizes and colors, cant go wrong with blue and white. A couple of lucky joes for catching bait, and a pack of owner hooks. Black swivels, black wire leaders in 40#.

Alan - 11-10-2006 at 08:49 AM

Hook and Osprey. I didn't mean to imply there wasn't less expensive, quality, equipment available but he asked about a free-for-all in a tackle store so I offered my opinion as to what I thought was best. For more reasonable quality reels both Daiwa and Newell come to mind. I do love my Trinidads though. They just feel different than any reel I have ever used but they have a similar design with the Toriums without the bling at about 1/2 the price. Unfortunately I have never fished one so it wouldn't be fair to comment on them. Another less expensive alternative are the new Avets. I have heard a lot of positive about them as well but again I haven't fished them. I am confident that there is so much experience on this forum that we could set him up with an excellent quiver of tools for any specific budget.

Summanus - 11-10-2006 at 09:12 AM

Good ideas all. As for lines, I won't economize much there...too important in all types of fishing. Like I said to my wife when talking prices....You wouldn't economize on a pacemaker, would you? These rods and reels will last me a long time, so I will be looking for quality.

On another thought for Baja...My boat will probably be too small to go far offshore when it's rough, but a buddy has offered me to join him in his fishing boat for those times...I don't know much about this type, but it's a Boston Whaler Outrage 21 center console. I read something about them being a 'Boston Bouncer?'..hope that means something other than what I think? From how he describes it, seems to be well set-up.

[Edited on 11-10-2006 by Summanus]

aquaholic - 11-10-2006 at 10:08 AM

...they're a great boat...you should try fishing on one...smooth, stable, and dry...pricey, but worth every penny...

Whistler

Skipjack Joe - 11-10-2006 at 12:33 PM

This is a banner day. I haven't seen so many posts from you in months.

Anyway, my small addition to all this advice is that one of the biggest problems in baja is either the absence of quality lures or the difficulty in getting it or the high cost once you find it. So you have to make each lure last as long as possible. I do that by usijng Pline. It's very abrasion resistant. It will feel smooth in your hands after days of fishing. I also often use a wire leader. That's especially true when I start running out and there is still a lot of time left of my vacation.

I fully agree with Whistler about one of the greatest pleasures of flyfishing is that you're in direct contact with a living thing. The fishes movements are transmitted directly to the nerves in your fingers and that is one of the great highs of fishing. I, too, started with dad hadlining from Santa Monica pier and that was one of the great things back then. I still sometimes just peel line off the reel, lay the rod aside, and just fish the old way.

Regarding trolling. I too hate it in it's basic form. But when I see diving birds I do end up trolling in the area. Same with rocky points. So targeted trolling is OK in my book. Trolling around kelp paddies for dorado - yes. Trolling open water for them just kills the spirit, though.

And finally Gene Kira. I don't think Gene ever claims to have been the fisherman that Neil Kelly was. So I don't see him as some sort of impostor. The trolling thing that the book recommends is really Neil's thing. I have met people who tell me that Neil was a great editor of the Western Outdoor News and his editorials and fishing reports were not to be missed. That the quality of the baja section has deteriorated since Kira took over. I don't know since I don't read it much. Neil's writing is more humorous and I do like it a lot. IMO opinion 'The Baja Catch' is the best book ever written on fishing the baja peninsula. Just the maps themselves are invaluable. It's practical, well organized, and packed with information. You can be a total novice to baja and just go down with that book and do pretty well. It doesn't cover every aspect of baja fishing and it says that. The bluewater guys scoff at it and that's fine. If you're after marlin, wahoo, or those types of gamefish (and a lot of guys won't consider the other species) then the book has little for you.

Personally I find Neil Kelly to be one fascinating man. He's one of the true baja legends.

Gold and orange rebel is a good one. Just as good as blue and silver. Why, I'll never know. But it works...

Oh, I almost forgot. I agree with the earlier post about trout fishing. As you get older the fishing becomes one of the least significant parts of a fishing trip. There is a lot to say on this subject. The adrelin of youth overwhelms all else during a fishing excursion and they love the excitement of it all. After fishing for years you start to pay attention to the little things around you. The smell and feel of the salt air when you launch the boat on the pacific side. The shadows of the kelp fronds descending into the depths when you're in those kelp beds. The mystery of pulling mackerel in the dark quiet hours of predawn. That's the essence of fishing. It's really not the catching any more. The ones who come to realize this early on are the lucky ones.

Summanus - 11-10-2006 at 01:36 PM

whistler..muchas gracias for so much valuable info. I am thinking I need a much bigger tackle box. The lines, knots, and other advice is much welcomed. Your enthusiasm tells me volumes.

Alan, that long 9'3" rod might be too much for me, even though I am tall, but will test one out at Fisherman's Landing where they let you gear up and pitch things into the water nearby.

Richard Cranium, (nice touch, reminds me of a cap that read "Methinks thou art a bonehead"), thanks for that concise list. Consider it done. A small, but general kit. Perfect for going on another's boat without cluttering it with lots of gear.

aquaholic.. thanks for the info...you make the Whalers sound good. From your handle, I will assume they have a huge cooler.;D

Skipjack Joe..all these things and more do I want to do regarding fishing. I love the water and have felt a kinship with the flights of pelicans and diving birds I have seen at sunrise out there. I would imagine I will be testing out what style of fishing suits me most...jigging, casting, trolling, flylining, blue-water species and bottomfish..it all sounds good to me.

I think mostly I want to grow old (older) with a friend in a boat fishing the Cortez. Everything else is just icing on the cake.

(Oh no...I said 'cake'....hello, FARASHA.)

[Edited on 11-10-2006 by Summanus]

FARASHA - 11-10-2006 at 02:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Summanus
...... a boat fishing the Cortez. Everything else is just icing on the cake.

(Oh no...I said 'cake'....hello, FARASHA.)

[Edited on 11-10-2006 by Summanus]


Right HERE, the alarm went off again - :bounce::bounce:

Don Alley - 11-10-2006 at 03:28 PM

I could write forever about fishing but here are just a couple of observations:

Trolling: The best thing about trolling is the breeze it creates on a HOT and HUMID August day with no wind. But sometimes if you are prospecting offshore and the fish aren't showing themselves, or they aren't showing inshore, there's not a whole lot you can do. When you have to troll, slow trolling a live bait will not hammer the fish as much as fast troling a feather, so the fight is better.

For me, though, usually the goal of trolling is to find a spot where you can fish, not troll. And I've done better casting to a visible billfish or dorado that rying to troll a bait by them. And, I love to cast.

Line: I like Berkley Big Game, P-Line, Izor for thick heavy line. I'm trying some Sufix now and like it. But when fishing bait inshore, I like green line. I really like to use green line inshore. Like for yellowtail fishing, with live bait, I like green line.

Did I say I like green line?;D

Me too!!

Skipjack Joe - 11-10-2006 at 05:40 PM

This is funny Whistler. That's exactly what I used to do. I would ditch school (I went to Hollywood High), strap my rod to my bicycle, and ride it to Santa Monica pier. I just like the feel of the place. My day consisted of kingfish and perch. Then I would ride back home and make sure I arrived by 4PM. That was the expected time from school.

And I know about those boats you're talking about. They were yellow, made out of wood, and rented for $3 a day without a motor. They would lower them with ropes while you sat in the boat. Dad and I would row out to the breakwater and fish for buttermouth perch. I once caught an opaleye off those rocks that must have been at least 8 lbs. We would make bait by climbing on the rocks and breaking off mussels. Once in a while a large wave would come over the rocks and partly swamp the boat. The bags of sandwiches would be left floating in the mess. Wet sandwiches - yummy. But the best fishing was on the ocean side of the breakwater. We would anchor up off the breakwater with an eye on the rope being just the right length. The surge would carry our little boat right towards the rocks and then <twang> it comes tight just as we are about to get smashed and pulls us back to safety. Oh what memories. More fun than that amusement park down a few miles, POP.

Skeet/Loreto - 11-11-2006 at 05:37 AM

My Answer to your Question>

First-Learn Spanish.

Second -Find a Local Mexicano Pangaero who has fished the Area for many years.

Third- Pay him $50 a Day to go in your Panga to "Teach you the Sea of Cortez and its Fish.{Throw away all the Fancy GPS's.Sonar,Mechanical
Garbage you see on the Modern Boats.

Fourth- After you have Learned the Water and How to stay Alive When"It thunders and there is no Clouds". get a Penn 500 loaded with 40lb Test and Fish to your Hearts content.

Fifth--If you want Sharks go to a 6/0 Loaded with 125 Lb. Test.{Give the Catch to the Local Mexican People for Food/Sale"

Sixth- Bait depends on the time of year and Water condition- Catch a Squid-use a small Strip floated on Top of the Water-Move off a 100 yards and wait for the Action- DrinK a Carte Blanc with the Opener on the Bottom.

Seventh: Yellowtail during the Summer- 220 Feet Down with a Salas Jig.

All of the above can be learned from a Good Mexican Fisherman who has fished the Waters for many years.

You can catch all the fish you want and can Eat with out making the Fishing Industry Richer with all the "Gimmicks" that make you Think are better than good old Fashion Knowledge and Work.

Skeet/Loreto

Bob and jane - 11-11-2006 at 07:41 AM

Skeets, I couldn't agree more!!

Don Alley - 11-11-2006 at 07:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
You can catch all the fish you want and can Eat with out making the Fishing Industry Richer with all the "Gimmicks" that make you Think are better than good old Fashion Knowledge and Work.

Skeet/Loreto


Quote:
Originally posted by Bob and jane
Skeets, I couldn't agree more!!


Well, whatever, but I'm not giving up my purple/pink aluminum reels!:lol:

Skeet/Loreto - 11-11-2006 at 09:21 AM

Second Advice:

Get an Aeronautical Chart of the Area; Learn the Peaks and Valleys- Learn Triangluation.
Check with your local Guide-Which you do not have to use each time you go Fishing.
Watch the Water, The Birds{Suggest you go to Delefonso in April-Get up about 30 feet on the Island and watch what the Action of Segulls " Also gather a few Eggs for the Local Mexicano Families who love to Eat Them.

Go to Pt. Lobos-Check the Water and Weather- Head on a 030 Degree Course for 3/4Hour at 3/4 Speed whci will put you over a Great Reef.

Now I can also tell you many other Spots to Catch/Watch the Golden Cabrilla Herd the Brown Cabrilla- Where at times you can catch Lingcod- AmberJack to 80 Lbs.-an Occasional Sea Cat--HammerHead Shark- Yellowfin Tuna to 70 Lbs.- Pez Gallo with a "Straggler Jig" in September--

Large Dorado in November and many others, but before I go further you must complete your Training on the Sea of Cortez- Then I can send you Pictures and Location, Times of Year etc. which will end up making you the Envy of all those Fisherman in their Fancy Boats who Run over more Fish than they Catch.

Relax, learn the People, Life is too short to miss out on all that Good fishin!!

Skeet/Loreto

Skeet/Loreto, Gracias! it appears you have... been there, done that

Summanus - 11-11-2006 at 09:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
My Answer to your Question>

First-Learn Spanish. .... ("Right you are, this was our first order of business..Si, gracias, ahora estamos tomando lecciones.")

Second -Find a Local Mexicano Pangaero who has fished the Area for many years. ....("Luckily, last year I met a couple of old timer panga fishermen through my Mexican compadre and we hit it off pretty good. One named Xavier let me copy an old US Navy map/depth chart from 1948 marked with some rockpiles which he says always has some fish.")

Third- Pay him $50 a Day to go in your Panga to "Teach you the Sea of Cortez and its Fish.{Throw away all the Fancy GPS's.Sonar,Mechanical
Garbage you see on the Modern Boats. .....("Last winter I went out in a panga to catch those giant squid..what a mess! My skipper, Victor, used fairly simple gear...a huge lure with spikes and a stout fishing line. Fun but a little hard on my arms. My wife tried a recipe, but it must have been for the little guys..cause it was not too tasty! No more big squid..unless for bait, as you say.")

Fourth- After you have Learned the Water and How to stay Alive When"It thunders and there is no Clouds". get a Penn 500 loaded with 40lb Test and Fish to your Hearts content. .... ("I wll check out the Penn 500. Seems like a lot of fellows I have met own Penns.")

Fifth--If you want Sharks go to a 6/0 Loaded with 125 Lb. Test.{Give the Catch to the Local Mexican People for Food/Sale. ....("Don't know if I want to fish sharks, but if one comes along who knows...? My mapfriend, Xavier, told me of a shark fisherman who bled to death from a shark's bite long ago, but I think he was hanging over the side while there was a lot of blood from cleaning sharks...something I don't intend to do.")

Sixth- Bait depends on the time of year and Water condition- Catch a Squid-use a small Strip floated on Top of the Water-Move off a 100 yards and wait for the Action- DrinK a Carte Blanc with the Opener on the Bottom. .... ("Yes, we have learned that squid and shrimp heads make good bait...but never used it like you said. We used a hook and sinker and bottom-fished. Will try that strip floating without the weights.")

Seventh: Yellowtail during the Summer- 220 Feet Down with a Salas Jig. ..... ("Are there any other jigs besides a Salas that work..I have already bought some in different colors.")

All of the above can be learned from a Good Mexican Fisherman who has fished the Waters for many years.

You can catch all the fish you want and can Eat with out making the Fishing Industry Richer with all the "Gimmicks" that make you Think are better than good old Fashion Knowledge and Work......("Very good thoughts on keeping things simple. Also for making local friends..couldn't agree more. I think we are on that path already. I am looking forward to saying Hi to some amigos again. My wife, who comes from a large farm family, can relate to the closeknit families of our friends..especially the children who grab her skirt and run around calling her 'Reina'...which means queen.) ..edited from Rey to Reina as prompted by aquaholic..sorry, my memory is not so good at times...don't be so picky, at least I remembered part of it!

Skeet/Loreto






[Edited on 11-12-2006 by Summanus]

Summanus - 11-11-2006 at 09:35 AM

More on the tackle. Even though I love the simple things in life, I can't give up my compulsion to stock my garage with every lure and piece of tackle known to mankind...I have waited too long!

Also on those landmarks, Skeet...Xavier showed me his way to find a certain clump of rocks. You lined up a small island with a white-looking patch on the mountainside behind it and kept those two things in line while motoring ahead in a straight line. Then you looked to the side about 90 degrees and watched the mountain top horizon until this little spiked mountain appeared along the ridgeline...and presto!..there was this bunch of rocks just below the boat. A wonderful day on the water..even if we didn't catch much.

[Edited on 11-11-2006 by Summanus]

Skeet/Loreto - 11-11-2006 at 09:44 AM

Hey! You are on your Way!!!

When you see a group of Pangas fishing a small School of Dorado- Move off a couple Hundred Yards- Put a Small piece of Squid on a Large Hook- Place a very small Lead Sinker{Bass type} above the Swivel on a 6 Ft. Leader- that drops the Bait about 2 Feet below the Surface- Hold On because many times the Very Large Dorado will stay away from the School of smaller ones- I caught my Largest Dorado that way. My Wife still has me Beat as the ole Timers Measure the Head from Top to Bottom for Judging the Largest Fish--She Caught one that was 18 Inches top to bottom- about 57 Lbs.

I saw a new Fisherman gaff his large Dorado and sling it into the Panga- It cost him a Broken Leg!

Good Luck and God Bless

Skeet/Loreto

Summanus - 11-11-2006 at 11:01 AM

I love the romance of finding that pile of rocks again by using those landmarks.

I have also put a gps/sonar/fishfinder on my wish list..made by Lowrance, it's in living color even! It should be almost like having a tv camera underwater.

Now for that sure-fire fish scent in a bottle.

You can see where this is leading to...!

speaking of sounders("fishfinders").......

pacificobob - 11-11-2006 at 11:10 AM

who has a favorite? i have had 3....i really couldnt recomend any that ive had. the ones ive seen that work well cost a fortune. i had a chance to use a $8000( fureno on a charter boat a friend has) unit that did exactly what i thought it should. so far i havent been happy with the $500 type.....any comments?

My choice..so far, anyway

Summanus - 11-11-2006 at 11:44 AM

I have read good things about Garmin for gps, Lowrance for sonar. Looked at Garmins Bluewater Pro for around $250, then this one from Lowrance..a little pricey, but has some awesome features that should keep me busy on the fishhunt.

"High-definition TFT color sonar/GPS+WAAS with precision chartplotter features. The built-in 20GB internal hard drive is preloaded with high-detailed mapping and charts, including over 2 million Points-Of-Interest! These maps and charts are displayed on a huge 10.4" diagonal display that outputs 256 colors with SVGA technology on a liquid crystal TFT display at an incredible 600V x 800H resolution! NMEA 2000® compatible for networking"

- a LCX111CHD_large -.jpg - 18kB

Summanus - 11-11-2006 at 01:48 PM

Hah!..Not to worry, whistler....was just kidding about the fishscent. And while I really don't plan on buying out the fishing stores, I surely AM looking forward to shopping for and collecting various fishing equipment and books about all things finny. I am a collector-hobbyist at heart and my understanding spouse can vouch that I get caught up in my enthusiasm at times. One example is that while I own way too many shotguns, I only use 1 for all shooting events..including skeet & trap...a 21yr-old 12ga. Browning Citori O/U that knows my shoulder well...I just use different loads for different situations.

Fishing the local party boats sounds fine to me. I have checked out some nearby Fisherman's Landing near Shelter Island. Red Rooster II, amongst others. They feature 1/2 day and full day...plus extended multi-day trips to fishing grounds near southern Baja. I would only take the short trips, I believe...a week or so onboard a cruising boat might not be me..but who can say? Like you say, the experience and knowledge learned would be welcome. From the pictures they showed, all seemed to have a good time and caught a lot of fish..tuna, wahoo, and many others. One thing, though, it seemed to me that it was more about weights and numbers than fun times. I might be wrong, though.

[Edited on 11-11-2006 by Summanus]

Alan - 11-11-2006 at 02:51 PM

That is a nice choice for a GPS/Sounder and combo units are the way to go if you have limited space. Remember though that if it breaks you lose both a sounder and a gps. I think Lowrance makes good fresh water units but for salt I still feel Furuno is the way to go and you can't beast Garmin for GPS. It is more than just getting a sounder. You must learn how to use it. It sounds like you are in the San Diego area. It would be well worth your time to take a drive to Huntington Beach some evening to attend Mark Wisch's class on reading your fishfinder. It covers adjusting it properly as well as knowing what you are seeing. You can check the class schedule at pacificedgetackle.com

Yes you can catch fish with a Penn jigmaster. I have verified that. And you can also catch fish with just a handline and a sparkplug weight and I have done that as well. The point is is that I am at a point in my life now that I don't have to anymore. I can now buy quality reels and (even pay a little extra for some bling). I make my own rods so they are setup just for me. So I am very happy concentrating on and savoring the fight of the fish without having to worry about fighting my equipment or worrying about equipment failures.

Yes you can find and catch fish with triangulation or dead reckoning and I had done that for many years. GPS now lets me get to my spots much quicker and the sounder lets me set up on structure in proper relation to the current and it lets me know if I am wasating my time there so I can move to a more productive area. Pangueros are masters of their area. Anybody, anywhere that fishes for a living and is on the water everyday becomes a master through necessity. When fishing any area in Baja with your own boat, even with all the toys, it would behoove you to hire a skipper for a day that is from that area. They can show you what is biting at that time while you are there and successful techniques for catching them. Everything changes seasonally and by locale. Hiring a skipper for the first day in an area will definitely shorten the learning curve.

Skeet/Loreto - 11-11-2006 at 03:06 PM

Hey Whistler; Just doing a little Kidding about all those Fancy Gimmicks: To each his Own- No I am still liveing in the future, just the Past in and on the Sea of Cortez.

Simanus: If you like Guns do a Search on my Thread, I am trying to sell a 74 Winchester built in 1942, a 235 Stevenss Double Barrell Coach Shot gun, a 30 Cal. Lugar taken off a N-zi Officer.

Make you a good Deal.

Skeet/Loreto

Don Alley - 11-11-2006 at 05:13 PM

Fishfinder: I have a gps/fishfinder combo, Eagle, about $200, on my kayak. I'll probably put a similar cheap unit on the boat I expect to have by spring. It tells you where you are, how deep the water is, bottom type, and the water temp. We'll have to see if it works in deeper water (to 250 ft). But I won't be buying an expensive sonar or a chart plotter. Or radar. Although radar makes a great fishfinder: it shows where the pangeros are.

Penn Jigmaster: I remember scrubbing decks, polishing chrome to make enough money to by my first, back then the ultimate casting reel. Now, well, if you use lighter line it gets caught between the spool and frame. Drags aren't the best. Penn Squidder, other small old Penns, retrieve too slow. But there are some really good reels out there at many price points; you don't need an expensive reel in Baja. Except maybe for giant marlin in the Bisbee thing.

Fancy boats: We're about to get one. Yeah, it's technically a Mexican panga, but it's a fancy one. But it's no Grady White.:biggrin:
Still to decide: bimini or T-top.
And Skeet, it follows years of going out mostly with the local pangeros.

But I still won't know what I'm doing and will be hiring a local skipper for quite a while.:biggrin:

Summanus - 11-11-2006 at 06:35 PM

Well, I had to make a little trip and buy something..anything. I now own a nice Diawa Sealine SL-X50HA baitcaster reel with a 5:1 ratio ...1 reel down, about 3-4 to go. Saw some Penns and a dozen other brands, but liked this Diawa the best..seems easy to use with a large handle which fits my mitt better. The salesman showed me a feature that will lessen my mouse nests when casting...we'll see. I like the fast retrieve models best, I believe. I got 4 'crocodile' lures, also.

On the question of a fishfinder/sonar/ etc...here is one answer from a saltwater fishing pro back east:

" If you truly serious then you all need a Furuno CH250 Sonar to find fish etc ...................
Im able to see Blue and black marlin targets on the sonar, bait schools and individual sailfish/marlin/dorado around the bait schools.
The best feature is while slow trolling 30 lb live YFT down on the downriggers Im able to see a Blue or Black marlin eat the live bait..............

Track swordfish when the sound and know when they going to surface again and throw a live bait on them, same with striped marlin and sailfish.
I know Sonars are a west coast thing and many many east coast guys dont have them, dont use them ..............I cannot fathom why not ?
Most the West Coast Serious tournament fishing boats have them installed.
-----
A release today is a fish tomorrow

Cheers"


Well, I was all pumped up when I read that...imagine scanning fish a full 360 degrees around your boat..and watching a marlin hit your bait! Then I found out how much this unit cost. Whammo!...my budget just got puny-lookiing...can you believe about $13,000! I briefly contemplate how soon my wife would miss her old Landcruiser. Then I learn that this is a high-tech sonar/fishfinder for commercial boats and large sportfisherman...usually 50 footers and bigger. Okay, back to reality and maybe that Garmin 250 Blue for $140 will work just fine.

Don Alley..I do know one thing about a boat at least. I was a guest on a boat with a T-top and another with a bimini with straps. The T-top was much easier to move around on with your rod than the bimini with the tiedowns. But I am quite large and that may have made a difference.

Diver - 11-11-2006 at 06:51 PM

Definitely T-top !
Even with a framed canvas top is fine.
Gives you more room to move, makes much less noise, creates a place for an electronics box up high, and it will last longer. IMHO

.

Summanus - 11-11-2006 at 07:45 PM

T-top...also can mount spotlights for night fishing. We saw these being used for catching bait in the wee hours.

aquaholic - 11-11-2006 at 09:57 PM

...hey, Skeet...you said to learn Spanish...better check it out...Does Rey really mean Queen...???

FARASHA - 11-12-2006 at 06:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by aquaholic
...hey, Skeet...you said to learn Spanish...better check it out...Does Rey really mean Queen...???


According to my dictionary is REY - KING, QUEEN would be REINA.
But depends maybe on WHO is wearing the pants ( or having the SAY) in this case :biggrin:

Dolfinfish...Dorado

Summanus - 11-12-2006 at 06:46 AM

Good afternoon, FARASHA...(it's morning here) What do you know about dorado? Help me out. I already know about mispronouncing Spanish....rey-reina-king-queen.

Dolfinfish...dorado



I am reading where the folks at the East Cape, Loreto, and Mulege are still catching dorado. Let's hope those fish are still there when I arrive. That got me to thinking about the matter of trolling versus casting. I suppose that casting depends on whether or not you KNEW if you were in close proximity to fish or not. After all, the open sea is a huge place to cover with a casted line. You could spend all your time and cover a relatively small area.

So, say we are 20 miles out on the Cortez. The bottom is many hundreds, if not thousands, of feet below. You will not have bottom structure to fish, just the top layer of the ocean. Seems to me that trolling a lure for the surface or suspended dorado is the only way to find them..unless you actually sight them jumping or chasing some food like the flying fish. Then casting might be the thing to do, I suppose.

I realize I should have 2 rod/reel outfits ready...one for trolling, one for casting. From what I have gathered, I am thinking 30-50 lb line would be sufficient on the trolling rod versus 20-30 lb on the casting rod? I would like to stay as lightweight as possible..within reason of course.

Other questions come to mind:

How do you know when and where to start trolling? What's your lure choice for trolling for dorado? Any particular colors better than others? And how fast should one troll? Are windy days better than calm ones? How far behind the boat should the lure be?

Casting...I am sure I will like casting for the fish better, so what other ways can one find and catch dorado by casting? Any favorite casting lures? Should they always be used with a steel leader with a swivel or snap? I see where green line is one favorite line color.

Your thoughts? Gracias.




[Edited on 11-12-2006 by Summanus]

FARASHA - 11-12-2006 at 07:04 AM

DORADO
a BEAUTIFUL CREATURE - I like to see during my DIVES rather then dead on the deck.!
Never the less its meat is quite good, and I had plenty for cooking after Dorado competition in end of MAY/JUNE.

Fishing - last time I was fishing was AGES ago, with my Granddad.Who was a passionate fishermen (casting from shore), can't even remember.
Was tempted to go out at that time of the competition, just to watch it, but the boat was rigged up for repair. And I was depressed too. HM, maybe next time.

Photo from Whistler

David K - 11-12-2006 at 08:36 AM

Photo sent to me this morning, now reduced for Nomad posting... from whistler:

Glenn Pic-r.JPG - 48kB

FARASHA - 11-12-2006 at 08:42 AM

Is that Apple considered as a BAIT for the Vegetarian species !?
But all in all, looks a nice boat! All nicely stowed away.

Alan - 11-12-2006 at 09:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Summanus
Good afternoon, FARASHA...(it's morning here) What do you know about dorado? Help me out. I already know about mispronouncing Spanish....rey-reina-king-queen.

Dolfinfish...dorado



I am reading where the folks at the East Cape, Loreto, and Mulege are still catching dorado. Let's hope those fish are still there when I arrive. That got me to thinking about the matter of trolling versus casting. I suppose that casting depends on whether or not you KNEW if you were in close proximity to fish or not. After all, the open sea is a huge place to cover with a casted line. You could spend all your time and cover a relatively small area.

So, say we are 20 miles out on the Cortez. The bottom is many hundreds, if not thousands, of feet below. You will not have bottom structure to fish, just the top layer of the ocean. Seems to me that trolling a lure for the surface or suspended dorado is the only way to find them..unless you actually sight them jumping or chasing some food like the flying fish. Then casting might be the thing to do, I suppose.

I realize I should have 2 rod/reel outfits ready...one for trolling, one for casting. From what I have gathered, I am thinking 30-50 lb line would be sufficient on the trolling rod versus 20-30 lb on the casting rod? I would like to stay as lightweight as possible..within reason of course.

Other questions come to mind:

How do you know when and where to start trolling? What's your lure choice for trolling for dorado? Any particular colors better than others? And how fast should one troll? Are windy days better than calm ones? How far behind the boat should the lure be?

Casting...I am sure I will like casting for the fish better, so what other ways can one find and catch dorado by casting? Any favorite casting lures? Should they always be used with a steel leader with a swivel or snap? I see where green line is one favorite line color.

Your thoughts? Gracias.




[Edited on 11-12-2006 by Summanus]

Dorado relate to structure - any structure! Check out EVERY patch of sargasso weed or ANYTHING else that is floating along. Pallets, dead seals, trash,. It doesn't matter, pitch a bait to it. Watch the birds! Frigate birds have been especially good to me when targeting dorado. They fly so high they see everything. Yes it is a big ocean out there but the more time you spend on it the better you will understand it. If you pay attention and begin to learn what you are seeing you will realize it is not just one big patch of blue. There are current rips, temp breaks and everything else under the sun. Study and learn about how the specific fish you are targeting relates to these things.

There are several different ways of trolling. For high speed trolling when you want to cover a lot of ground while you are searching for those weed patches, feather style jigs and cedar plugs are a good choice. They track straight and will entice several different species. For mid-speeds Rapala style lures are an excellent choice. When you know you are in the area because you have seen fish, birds or boils, slow trolling a live bait is hard to beat.

When you spot that weed patch or other flotsam a lot of guys will just troll by it and if they don't get a knock-down, they just continue on. I have found that unless the fish are suicidal most times the boat can spook these fish. You are better off easing up to the paddy from about 200 yds away and the pitching a bait or a jig to it while throwing a handful of chum to get thenm going.

Skipjack Joe - 11-12-2006 at 10:30 AM

Alan gives good advice on dorado.

My small additions:

Good trolling lure: green/yellow feather jig. Feather works better than plastic.

Trolling location: troll about 35 ft behind the boat. Where the white water from the motor has just broken down into clear water.

Good trolling speed: about 8mph. You can use the gps unit to tell you that.

Good casting lure: poppers. I use Pili Poppers. Cast to edge of paddies and reel in agressively so that a lot of surface commotion is created. You can't outretrieve these fish.

Frigate birds: frigate birds are an excellent way to locate dorado but you need understand their behavior. If they're circling high above it may or may not mean a fish is below. Usually the fish aren't there. But if the birds are circling and will dip down occasionally and go back up you can be pretty sure there is something going on. If they come down all the way to the surface it's almoost certain there are fish below.

buoys: There won't be sargasso weeds in the winter. A good strategy is to go to fish every buoy you know of in the area. Always keep an eye out for buoys.

wire leaders: I don't like to use wire leaders on these fish. There teeth are not razor sharp like sierra. However, these will bite through light line occassionally. I don't like to lose those jigs so I tie a thicker mono leader to the end of my line using a swivel. Keeps the line from twisting. I think dorado can be line shy but when the lure is moving fast and behind that foam line - well the thickness of line is less important. When fishing for dorado with flies I use fluorocarbon leaders (20lb).

weather conditions: I could get an argument out of this but I find that dorado fishing improves as the wind picks up. When the schools it really doesn't matter. But when you're scratching for a fish then any advantage helps.

Other signs of possible dorado: Birds sitting on the water. They were diving before you showed up. Now they're just sitting. Rip currents around points at the islands. If there's a large school of sardinas around you're pretty sure to see dorado if you fish long enough.

[Edited on 11-12-2006 by Skipjack Joe]

Diver - 11-12-2006 at 10:45 AM

Whistler,

If you're looking for a bait caddy, I will be in your neck the second week of January !!
Nice boat !!

Here's my old Aquasport with canvas T-top.

scan00010001.JPG - 35kB

David K - 11-12-2006 at 11:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by whistler
Thanks David,
I still don't know how to post pictures.
That was the T-Top on my Radon.


I emailed the photo back to you that was reduced for Nomad... save that image to your pc's files (right click mouse over picture in email, then click save picture as).

Back here on Nomad: Click Post Reply, do not use not Quick Reply and below where you type any text is a button called 'Browse'... Click on that and the window to your pictur file comes up... double click the reduced image... that's it.

Alan - 11-12-2006 at 01:27 PM

Just one thought on the t-top vs. canvas top. My T-top will support 300#'s so besides providing shade I can have a friend climb up there with a pair of binos. Even that little change in altitude makes a huge difference in the ability to spot paddys.

[Edited on 11-12-2006 by Alan]

[Edited on 11-12-2006 by Alan]

DSCN1740 resized.jpg - 34kB

Osprey - 11-12-2006 at 02:16 PM

Dittos on the flotsam for dorado. Me and a pal each got a limit of big, big bulls under turtle no bigger than a sombrero. Dead whales will draw and keep hundreds of dorado for as long as the whale stays afloat. The body of an overboard victim was found floating down here close to Vinorama. The guys who reported it to the authorities caught hell for first treating it like my turtle. Dorado grow at a rate of 10% of their body weight PER DAY at times in the open ocean. Probably much of that growth is in the fry stage otherwise there would be 500# 6 year old dorado. Killing a whale to attract dorado is a bad idea. Throwing a guy overboard to attract dorado is a bad idea. Now if he was drunk, singing bad songs, keeping baby fish, throwing lunch bags over the side, if you knew there were dorado around .......?

vgabndo - 11-12-2006 at 03:39 PM

In Stephen Callahan's excellent book "Adrift" the shadow of his life raft made him very popular with the dodos. The dodos were very popular with him.:lol:

If I remember correctly he floated for about 70 days and his "pattie" kept him fairly well fed.

Dorado, here we come!

Summanus - 11-12-2006 at 06:01 PM

Those are great-looking fishing boats. And superb ideas and contributions on the dorado techniques. I know my fishing portfolio is getting some great additions and I am sure other interested fishermen are taking notes also. All the above posts sum up a vast amount of knowledge and experience...priceless to any novice.

We will note anything floating out there and take appropriate action. No corpses, we hope...whale or human! Plus keep an eye out for those circling or diving birds. I was also wondering if the tide schedule has any effect on open water fishing...as is the case with shallow water fishing? Moon phases, night or daytime, morning, afternoon, or evening? I know cold fronts kill most activity.

If the dorado congregate around floating things, why not throw out a bunch of jugs tied together to form a raft?..or whatever? Or wouldn't that work?..plus maybe it is illegal?..like baiting for certain wild game?

Which brings to mind another legal question: the limit and how to handle the catch.

(I see the limit for dorado is 2 per day per angler..which seems quite liberal as those fish run large. Other species are 5 fish total, I believe...like snapper and groupers. We will not be killing too many fish, except those we will consume for a coming dinner. For us, that means one nice fish.)

But, what if we want to give some fish to a friend? I seem to recall that you cannot fillet the fish on the water, but must retrain them whole?

A designated cooler with ice should handle that...or does anyone have some tips on keeping the catch fresh?

A very large patty

baitcast - 11-13-2006 at 07:43 AM

My first encounter with this very special fish was on
the stern of a naval ocean going tug boat "ATF" while towing
three very large barges from Hawaii to enewetok atoll.

The boat became the perfect patty,at the time I had no idea what the attraction was but as I look back the big screw kicking up a fuss and our slow rate of speed,five knotts
made us a party not to miss by the locals and more joined by the day.

Dozens would show at a time,sharks came and went
we even saw a couple of bill fish show in the shadow amazing to watch,but nothing would compare to what was to come later,but thats another story!
BAITCAST

Skipjack Joe - 11-13-2006 at 11:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Summanus

A designated cooler with ice should handle that...or does anyone have some tips on keeping the catch fresh?


These fish show up when the water is about 78-80, I believe. At those high temperatures the meat goes bad real fast. The fish should be placed on ice within 20 minutes of being caught. I normally bonk the fish on the brain and remove the innards and place it on ice. Block ice (bought the night before) lasts better than crushed ice but you need to arrange your catch in the cooler so that the block doesn't slide around inside while the boat is moving. Otherwise your catch can be reduced to pulp.

If you're fishing on the pacific side you can get away without using ice. Just place the fish in a wet gunny sack. The water evaporation as the sack dries will cool the meat. Once it's dry, dunk it in sea water again and start the process all over.

Quote:
Originally posted by baitcast

Dozens would show at a time,sharks came and went
we even saw a couple of bill fish show in the shadow amazing to watch,but nothing would compare to what was to come later,but thats another story!


I would like to hear that story, baitcast. BTW, did you fish Eiwetok atol? I'll bet the trevally fishing must be awesome over there.

Hey, Skipjack Joe.......

Hook - 11-13-2006 at 11:34 AM

..........I wasnt aware that Neil Kelly was ever the Baja editor of WON. Are you sure you're not confusing him with Fred Hoctor?

On the fishfinder issue, I am another big believer in Furuno products. Their failure rate is so rare that I would not hesistate to get a combo unit, although the Garmins do seem better on the GPS side. I have personally never had one fail in about 20 years of ownership.

If you dont have to have color, it's amazing how good the Furuno LS-4100 is for the money. Amazing price point for a Furuno product. It does have fewer buttons that force you to go through more menus to make adjustments but it doesn have some kind of "menu memory" that returns you to the last sub-menu within each menu. Really, unless you are targeting structure deeper than maybe 400 feet, 300 watts is more than adequate. You wont get the discrimination of a 600w-1000w unit but that's not usually critical. Dual frequency.

Easy to find for 200.00 with a transom mount tri-ducer or a thru hull for about 40.00 more.

Skipjack Joe - 11-13-2006 at 01:26 PM

As I said above, Hook: Friends have told me that. I also said that I don't read the paper. Especially now with the internet.

I have never heard of Fred Hoctor until you mentioned the name.

I'll do some research. It might take some time.... Is this really so important?

Hook - 11-13-2006 at 01:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
As I said above, Hook: Friends have told me that. I also said that I don't read the paper. Especially now with the internet.

I have never heard of Fred Hoctor until you mentioned the name.

I'll do some research. It might take some time.... Is this really so important?


Did I make it overly important? Not my intention. That's why I posed it as a question. I could be wrong, too.

Hoctor was a classic, though. Had a real knack for writing about the ironies of Baja.

Have sonar/gps

Summanus - 11-13-2006 at 01:53 PM

Two more fishing items checked off the list. A color sonar/fishfinder/gps combo from Lowrance with a dual transducer.

They have passed their trials with flying colors. The sonar's large 10" screen is a plus for me.

[Edited on 11-14-2006 by Summanus]

- sonar gps -.jpg - 38kB

FARASHA - 11-13-2006 at 02:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by baitcast

Dozens would show at a time,sharks came and went
we even saw a couple of bill fish show in the shadow amazing to watch,but nothing would compare to what was to come later,but thats another story!
BAITCAST

SO, NOW WE NEED TO KNOW! PLEASE!:bounce:


[Edited on 13-11-2006 by FARASHA]

vgabndo - 11-13-2006 at 02:25 PM

Whistler:

I just read your response. A little brash perhaps, but understandable. Between my wife and I, we are 118 years old. What we fish in we have to be able to push across the beach and into the surf. Our range is then limited by how much ocean we are willing to challange.

I'm bummed. All this time I though I was having a whale of a good time fishing! :lol:

[Edited on 11-13-2006 by vgabndo]

Correction

Skipjack Joe - 11-13-2006 at 03:25 PM

Neil Kelly was not the editor of WON. Here's Kira's response to my inquiry:

Neil wrote up a couple of Baja trip reports for Western Outdoor News, but he
never did a regular column for them.

He did perhaps one or two-dozen bimonthly fishing columns for the Discover
Baja Travel Club newsletter called "Best Bets."

For several years, he edited, wrote for, and produced the Federal Employee's
Rod and Reel Club newsletter.

In the early 1980s, he talked to Western Outdoor News owner Burt Twilegar,
father of the present publisher Bob Twilegar, about editing an updated
version of Ray Cannon's book, The Sea of Cortez, but nothing came of that
meeting.

For several years, he taught his Baja fishing class for the adult night
education program at Coronado High School, Coronado, Calif., but as far as I
know, he only printed fishing maps for that class, no articles or columns.

There may have been more, but that's all I can recall.

baitfish?

Summanus - 11-13-2006 at 06:05 PM

Okay, I have lots of material on how to catch dorado with lures, feathers, looking for debris, etc.

How about if we decide to use live bait? What type fish make the best bait and how do we get them? We will have a large bait tank in the Whaler.

I have not heard of any bait shops in the East Cape area, Cabo san Lucas, or north through Loreto or Mulege. Might not this be a good business for someone to start?

Alan - 11-13-2006 at 06:49 PM

That is correct, you can usually buy macks from pangueros in areas such as the east cape. In Loreto area go to the marina in the morning (around 0600) and look for the guys with the cast nets. They can load you up pretty quick for around $20. In some areas you may see guys throwing cast nets from a panga along the beach. They can usually load you up with mullet (Lisa Fish?) My suggestion is that you never want to go to Baja without Sabikis. Head out before first light and follow the pangueros to where they are catching bait until you learn the area. Best to do this in the dark. It's just been my experience that once the sun comes up down there the bait shuts off. Don't know why that is but it seems that way. I can usually snag bait anytime of day here in SoCal.

What type of bait is dependent on what you are targeting. Macks are great for most anything with the jumbo models a treat for marlin. Larger Dorado seem to jump on bigeye scads and mullet are best for roosterfish. Sardinas get attacked by most anything.

[Edited on 11-14-2006 by Alan]

Alan - 11-13-2006 at 10:26 PM

Summanus,
Found this on another site that I thought you might enjoy. It applies to SoCal tactics but they are equally applicable.
http://www.bloodydecks.com/forums/saltwater-fishing-tutorial...

If Dorado are gone, then Yellowtail, Snapper..

Summanus - 11-14-2006 at 07:26 AM

Guys, thanks for the welcome baitfish info. After a little thought, and quite a few cold ones, we decided that, rather than trying to connect with the bait vendors, we are going to try catching our own bait, whether it is mackerel or bigeyes. Besides, it sounds like fun..catching bait in the wee hours with the panga fleet.

I researched those Sabikis and will add them to my tackle purchases...also weights and swivels to use with them. I have a nice lightweight rod/reel that I will keep rigged and use strictly for this purpose.

Alan, thanks for the that bloodydesks site. Was very informative about those kelp paddies and techniques.

My fishing compadre says he knows where the locals go to make their day's bait, and it's not too far from where we will be launching. We thought about making at least 5 or 6 baits per person?.. and keeping them healthy in the recirculating livewell.

We may have to go after other fish than dorado. I am concerned now that by the time we arrive and can get out fishing the dorado will have migrated out of the area. This leaves us to pursue other winter fish such as yellowtail, snapper, grouper, etc. Which suites me to a Tee..my wife and I love red snapper dinners.

I have been reading where a good method for the yellowtail is to use live bait either down deep with a egg-sinker or to 'fly-line' the live bait on the surface, letting the bait swim. Does anyone use this method?...or is casting or trolling a lure more effective? There also appears to be some controversy over the 'circle' hook?

Allcoast fishing says yellowtail are to be found more around rockpiles and are more 'structure' orientated. Which also seems to be a good place to be snagged or broken off, so I guess a metal leader should be used?

One item I have added myself...a bigger tackle box.

Alan - 11-14-2006 at 08:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Summanus
Guys, thanks for the welcome baitfish info. After a little thought, and quite a few cold ones, we decided that, rather than trying to connect with the bait vendors, we are going to try catching our own bait, whether it is mackerel or bigeyes. Besides, it sounds like fun..catching bait in the wee hours with the panga fleet.

I researched those Sabikis and will add them to my tackle purchases...also weights and swivels to use with them. I have a nice lightweight rod/reel that I will keep rigged and use strictly for this purpose.

Alan, thanks for the that bloodydesks site. Was very informative about those kelp paddies and techniques.

My fishing compadre says he knows where the locals go to make their day's bait, and it's not too far from where we will be launching. We thought about making at least 5 or 6 baits per person?.. and keeping them healthy in the recirculating livewell.

We may have to go after other fish than dorado. I am concerned now that by the time we arrive and can get out fishing the dorado will have migrated out of the area. This leaves us to pursue other winter fish such as yellowtail, snapper, grouper, etc. Which suites me to a Tee..my wife and I love red snapper dinners.

I have been reading where a good method for the yellowtail is to use live bait either down deep with a egg-sinker or to 'fly-line' the live bait on the surface, letting the bait swim. Does anyone use this method?...or is casting or trolling a lure more effective? There also appears to be some controversy over the 'circle' hook?

Allcoast fishing says yellowtail are to be found more around rockpiles and are more 'structure' orientated. Which also seems to be a good place to be snagged or broken off, so I guess a metal leader should be used?

One item I have added myself...a bigger tackle box.


5 pages! Wow! Fishermen sure can jaw.

All of the techniques you have described can be effective. It is all dependent on the fish and how they are biting each day and during the time you are fishing. Usually live bait is more effective than lures or jigs but not always. I've had many days when jigs out fish bait 5:1. You just need to pay attention to what the fish are keying on and adapt your tactics. If what you are doing isn't working CHANGE! I have seen lots of guys, myself included, miss opportunities because what they are doing worked YESTERDAY! Effective tactics can and do change throughout the day.

Yellowtail can hit anywhere! From the surface to 250". You'll find that most fish relate to structure in one way or another. That includes open water pelagics which is why we typically look for paddys and fish around seamounts. When targeting any fish, THINK FOODCHAIN. Fishing wire leaders help when chasing toothy critters but to use it to stop YT from sawing you off on rocks you might as well forget it. You'd probably have to be completely spooled with wire to be effective because if a YT has a chance to wrap you around anything they will and then your bait wouldn't swim naturally so you won't get bit in the first place. Just realize upfront that we all must make our personal sacrifice to the tackle gods if we want to catch fish. When fishing deep structure pin on a healthy mackeral and send it down on heavier line with your drags buttoned down. When it gets slammed get its head turned and keep it out of the rocks! I could be a big grouper just as easy as a YT.

There is a wealth of information out there that can help to shorten all of our learning curves. A book by Mark Wisch comes to mind - Into the Gray. It primarily deals with fishing Catalina Island but most of the information can be applied effectively in Baja. It focuses on targeting specific species. YT, Calico bass (cabrilla), White Seabass and Halibut. For Baja just consider it a great reference for inshore fishing.

Yes there is a huge controversy with circle hooks. They are particularly effective if you plan on releasing your fish. They are designed to catch the fish in the corner of the mouth. The number one rule though is DON"T set the hook. Allow the fish to set itself. When you swing on a fish with a circle hook you end up just pulling it out of its mouth. They can be effective when fishing depths because the fish don't spin off your line as easily when bringing them up. I don't like them as well for depth because I feel the fish, particularly grouper, get a chance to get back into their hole before I start pulling on them.

[Edited on 11-14-2006 by Alan]

Hook - 11-14-2006 at 11:22 AM

Spectra with a topshot, Alan, and you will feel them bite before they can get away.

I love circle hooks. I catch more fish, I damage fewer fish, I release more fish. I also retain more hooks as fish with some teeth are less likely to saw through the leader when the line is not exiting the front of the mouth.

Circle hook and bait rig..

Summanus - 11-14-2006 at 01:17 PM

Well ....hats off to the circle hook. They will have a special compartment within my tackle box. Do you guys favor the sliding egg-shaped sinkers or something else?

According to my reseach, the bait rig would be like this:

1. 30-40# mono about 48-60" long = leader line
2. black barrel swivel tied at rod end of leader
3. proper-sized Circle hook tied at other end(Palomar/blood cinch knot ok?)

...then slide an egg sinker down the tag end of pole line....then tie the tag end to the barrel swivel of the finished bait rig...letting the egg sinker settle against the barrel, which lets you feed out line when feeling a soft stike...or am I mixing this up?

...or, we could just tie the circle hook directly to the fishing line with no sinker, barrel or leader at all?...letting the live bait swim down with the reel in 'freespool'? I assume this is what is known as flylining.

We are now ready to impale some baitfish onto the Circle hook.

Where is the best place to hook the bait? Head, tail, or body?..while still keeping it alive.

Alan - 11-15-2006 at 06:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hook
Spectra with a topshot, Alan, and you will feel them bite before they can get away.

I love circle hooks. I catch more fish, I damage fewer fish, I release more fish. I also retain more hooks as fish with some teeth are less likely to saw through the leader when the line is not exiting the front of the mouth.

Spectra is something I have been meaning to try and you make an excellent argument for it. How do you make your connections to mono? I was looking at that Sato kit for it.

You are also right about the advantages of circle hooks. It is just going to take time for me to break old habits about setting the hook :lol:

Diver - 11-15-2006 at 07:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Summanus
Where is the best place to hook the bait? Head, tail, or body?..while still keeping it alive.


I was shown to slip the hook through the lower lip and then back to the tail. I was shown to use 2 heavy rubber bands to hold the hook to the fish near the tail and another to hold the leader between the dorsal and gills. I have see some guys use snap-ties instead of rubber bands but if you are rigging your baits in the boat, rubber bands are easier.

I AM open to suggestions as I have never landed as many as I KNOW I should. :lol:

.

Don Alley - 11-15-2006 at 07:42 AM

I been using circle hooks lately with good results, including using them for bottom fishing yellowtil in structure. I have some ringed hooks I'm playing with too. But there are pangeros here who insist circles are no good, and will insist that you change to a J hook.:biggrin:

Spectra: For short (15-25ft) topshots on my heavy bottom fishing outfits (40-60 lb) I tie a bimini to make a loop in the spectra, or, if the spectra is the hollow type, I splice a loop. I make my own topshots, mono inserted inide hollow spectra with a loop, and make a loop to loop connection and it all goes through the guides seemlessly. You can buy premade topshots, google BHP tackle. On lighter gear with spectra backing I use a uni knot splice.

Loreto Dorado: Last Friday we did OK. Lots of barrilete skipjack, too, that pull harder than the mostly small (under 20lbs) dorado. Yesterday was poor. Great weather, but we only got one small fish. I think Loreto's about done for dorado. Time for yellowtail soon.

Carolina Keepers: Little plastic do-hickies that slide on your line. Great for carolina rigs on light line, to maybe 30lb. I use swivels on the heavier stuff with the big baits. Most folks here use a mainline-torpedo sinker-leader-hook arrangement.

Summanus - 11-15-2006 at 07:43 AM

Hmmm...rubber bands, huh, Diver? I will give it a try. Another hint I got was to hook the bait through the nostrils only...and let swim free.

Skeet/Loreto - 11-15-2006 at 08:06 AM

Catching Bait: Alvaro and I always used the small little Crapie type Jigs with 4 Hooks for Bait. Alvaro would hook two together and sometimes come up with 8 Baits at a Time!!

South, off of Coronado was the most favored Spot with 80 Pangas getting Bait at the same time-Right before Light.

All of the various Hooks to Bait have been used successfully in the Past.

For Firecracker Yellowtail in January, I used a Spinning Reel loaded with 17 Lb. Maxim Test- Waiting for the School to Surface, sliding up to the School with Engine Shut Down- Casting across the School with a small CastMaster- Holding on to about 3 out of 5 Fish.

Skeet/Loreto

Summanus - 11-15-2006 at 08:09 AM

Skeet/Loreto, "Firecracker Yellowtail?" an interesting term...why are they called that?

Alan - 11-15-2006 at 08:50 AM

Firecrackers are the little guys as compared to the homeguard mossbacks that winter over here in SoCal. Not sure where the term originated.

Football YFT is fairly obvious because that is about their size and shape up to about 25#

Skeet/Loreto - 11-15-2006 at 11:26 AM

Not Sure of where they came onto the Name.

It maybe that when you Hook on to a Big yellowtail, it takes off an a Straight deep Run--where you Hook onto a smaller one on Top of the Water, he takes off Like a Firecracker, up , down , and around and stays closer to the Top.
Not for sure. Skeet

Alan - 11-15-2006 at 08:05 PM

I really only use about 4 different ways to hook a "flylined" bait each of which is dependent on the situation.

The most common method I use is sideways across the nose through the nostrils. In this position the hook holds pretty well and I can get some distance in my casts without ripping out your hook. The bait seems to swim most naturally with this method and seems to live longer. In this position the bait swims naturally even during your retrieve so there is a good chance of getting slammed even as you bring your bait back to change it out. Also effective for slow-trolling a live bait.

Another popular method but one that I probably use the least is called collar hooking. Here you place the hook around that little hard collar right at the aft edge of the gill on the body.

The next method is anal hooking your bait. I don't use this as often but it can be effective when your baits insist on swimming back to the boat. Hooking them in this position usually causes them to swim down and away.

Another method I use is neck hooking mackeral, particularly when slow-trolling. Here the hook is placed just through the skin forward of the dorsal. When slow-trolled, this position makes your bait work similar to a diving plug.

I personally don't like to hook my bait through the mouth as I feel the bait can drown quickly because water can't flow through the gills.

The number one rule I live by when flylining baits is to MATCH YOUR HOOK TO YOUR BAIT. Do not match your hook to the fish you want to catch. If that technique worked we would only have 12/0's in our tackle boxes.:lol:

Select a hook that will still allow your bait to swim as naturally as possible and also still be lively. As you can easily see this applies to line selection as well. A poor anchovy trying to drag around 80# test with a 3/0 hook is not going to look natural or lively.

When flylining, pull your line off your reel as you keep in contact with your bait rather than requiring your bait to pull it off the reel itself. It will exhaust quickly if you don't.

aquaholic - 11-15-2006 at 09:26 PM

Alan gives four good methods. One more would be using rigging floss. Take a piece 6-8" long and tie it into a loop. Use a rigging needle to pull the loop through the nostrils. Place one end of the loop through the other, and place the hook into the outer loop. Twist until the loop tightens, and then take the hook through the back loop. The hook is secure, the bait has little damage, and can be used in any manner. It'll last longer, and, swim better than many other methods of rigging live bait...This a great way to use circle hooks...

Summanus - 11-17-2006 at 07:26 AM

Great tips on hooking live-rigs, Diver, Alan, Skeet, Don Alley, aquaholic, whistler, Hook and all....I can see those baits swimming already! These are all good methods mentioned and I will eventually try them all, but I think the first one will be flylining a circle-hooked bait through the nose..no leader, no weights between bait and rod. Then I will put the rod in a holder, and leave the reel in free-spool with just the clicker on to let me know when I have a pickup. In the meantime, I will be having some coffee while kicking back looking for the 'green flash'...ah, the good life.

Also, while searching around I found this site about live bait rigging.

http://www.mytackle.net/live%20bait%20techniques.htm