BajaNomad - Dish Network Local Channels Package

Dish Network Local Channels Package

MrBillM - 11-10-2006 at 09:36 AM

Just before returning to Baja, I received a notice from Dish Network that, pursuant to a Federal Judge's rejection of a settlement between Dish and the Broadcast Networks, no later than 01 December, Dish Net will be disconnecting all distant Network packages where the subscriber is receiving a Local City Channel package. In our case, we receive L.A. and will lose our NY feeds which is a bummer since I live on NY TV time. Given the choice, I'd give up L.A., which means nothing to me, rather than NY. Right now I'm searching towns across the U.S. where I have family or friends residing and have NO Local Channel access. I may be "moving" my service.

Anyone else have any further info or input ?

Those who wish to protest to their Congressional Reps and Senators can go to: www.savemychannels.com (a site setup by Dish Network) to send messages to each. It's unlikely to help, but it's free and Who Knows ?

Summanus - 11-10-2006 at 09:38 AM

Bill, does this have any impact on Baja Sur?

Baja Sur

MrBillM - 11-10-2006 at 10:10 AM

For the most part, it will affect anyone in Baja Norte or Sur who is receiving a Los Angeles or Denver Local Channel package as a result of their "legal" address AND are receiving the NY, LA or Denver as a Distant Channel package for a $5.99 monthly charge. In my case, my address falls within the L.A. local channel group and I also have the NY Broadcast channels. A close friend who is also in the L.A. Local area has the Denver package.

All or, at least, the vast majority of other Local Channel packages are on spotbeam transponders so you can't receive them in Baja no matter where your U.S. address is. The one exception for San Felipe and neighborhood is the San Diego channels. We in that area are on the cusp of the spotbeam coverage so some people receive it and some don't. In my case, at Percebu, when I had a receiver capable of getting the SD channels, at times they would come in fine and, at others due to atmospherics, I would receive a dialog box saying I was outside my viewing area.

Again, the chief impact will be on those in Baja or the U.S. who receive the NY or Denver as a distant network package.

wornout - 11-10-2006 at 08:01 PM

I received the letter too and it sounds like ALL 5 cities that broadcast distant network channels will be shutdown. What does the government want the fulltime RV'ers and 18 wheelers to do for local networks then?

burro bob - 11-11-2006 at 08:47 AM

This is all about the local networks protecting their advertisment revenue. They don't want people watching comercials from other parts of the country. This is not a joke. This is true. If you have the ability to watch TV from another part of the country then they can not claim to their advertisers that all the people in their "class B" receiving area are watching the local networks. Therefor less advertising revenue because of a smaller potential viewing audience. Also a "class B" signal will be barely visible and will give you a headache in about 10 minutes. The local networks are not required to send out a quality signal. The FCC does not care about you the viewer. They only care about making sure the local networks make lots of money. Don't blame Dish (or DTV, when they have to enforce it also). Contact your congressperson.
burro bob

Viewer Rights (as in None).

MrBillM - 11-11-2006 at 09:17 AM

Pursuant to the Telecommunications act of 1998, ANY viewer who was not in an area that could receive a Class A or Class B broadcast signal from local networks was authorized to receive up to (2) distant channel packages. Living in Yucca Valley and not able to receive ANY such signals, I was subscribed to the L.A. and NY packages. When ABC got into a spat with Dish Network over ESPN Classic and Family Channel pricing, ABC began to "challenge" myriad Zip Codes under the Class A or B ruling, including mine. As a consequence, Dish removed my ABC-NY feed. At the time, after researching extensively the applicable law and the (3) Broadcast mappings used by the FCC in determining reception, I addressed both ABC-Los Angeles and Dish Network with that information. Their reply could be summed up as Tough. This is more of the same forced upon us by a Single Federal Judge. To apply this ruling to those of us who live outside the L.A. Viewing area is ridiculous.

The irony in the whole advertising argument for someone living 150 miles from Los Angeles is that most of us wouldn't go into L.A. on a bet. Whenever I travel to a major city, it's San Diego.

If, in fact, the Distant Channel packages are disconnected nationwide, it will disenfranchise many in remote communities who can't receive a Local Channel package. I doubt that will happen (at least I hope so). In the event that those isolated communities do continue to be eligible, I am fortunate to have a sister who lives in one such community. I guess I'll be "moving in",

Adios to Distant Channels for ALL Dishnet Customers

MrBillM - 11-15-2006 at 05:34 PM

I just received an e-mail from my Congressman which clarified the Echostar lawsuit regarding distant network channels.

Because the Court found that Echostar had engaged in a purposeful pattern of supplying the Distant Network Package to subscribers who were not eligible, the court imposed the Most stringent remedy, ordering Dish Network to disconnect ALL subscribers from the Distant Network channels, including those who are legally receiving it under Federal Law.

It was made clear that Congress will be doing Nothing during the lame-duck session to address the court order so it's ADIOS.

It looks like my Bozeman, Montana address won't work. Now I need to find an address in the New York or Atlanta area.

toneart - 11-15-2006 at 05:42 PM

Bill,
You could probably get the Canadian dish system. If you don't have their number, let me know and I'll get it to you.

Regarding a New York address, try The Ritz-Carleton. Maybe a bellman could receive the shipment and stow it for you. :no:

? Well allrighty then!

Addresses

MrBillM - 11-15-2006 at 05:55 PM

No shipments needed. I have all of my equipment and I pay my bill online.

I'm busily sending relatives and friends inquiries to find out if they have any friends in those areas. I do have an ex-wife in the Atlanta area, but that's a NO-GO for sure.

Lee - 11-15-2006 at 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
Right now I'm searching towns across the U.S. where I have family or friends residing and have NO Local Channel access. I may be "moving" my service.

Anyone else have any further info or input ?

I can receive DishNet as far South as El Rosario in my RV. I have the Denver networks and it's been valuable tracking weather between SoCal (where my RV is parked) and Colorado. Especially in the Winter.

Oh well.

I have DirecTV at home and did have it in my RV. Footprint was good from Denver to about East of Laramie. DirecTV told me I would need a separate account (a total of two accounts -- home and RV) in order to get distant (Denver) networks.

I give up. I'll probably cancel DishNet when I lose the networks.

:cool:

QuePasaBaja - 11-16-2006 at 02:00 PM

Looks like a lot of people will get shafted by those companies AGAIN!

The Shaft

MrBillM - 11-16-2006 at 05:46 PM

It is the Arrogant Judiciary that we are getting screwed by. They could have simply come up with a financial penalty for Dish Network and forbid them from passing the penalty on to the customers, but instead, they are punishing us along with the company.

Adios New York TV

MrBillM - 12-1-2006 at 10:11 AM

Well, yesterday (11-30) a.m., I woke to find that the NY Distant Channels were gone. Since it will take action by Congress to straighten out this mess, I doubt it will be restored at any time soon. Too Bad.

Lee - 12-1-2006 at 01:21 PM

I'm going to be pi**ed if I lose my Denver Five. This sucks.

:cool:

Denver Channels

MrBillM - 12-1-2006 at 01:29 PM

Since you're in Boulder, If the Denver channels are part of your local channel package, you'll keep them.

It's only when those are a part of a "Distant" Channel package, that they'll be disconnected as they were for a friend of mine who has the Los Angeles local package, but had the Denver as a distant network.

Lee - 12-1-2006 at 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
Since you're in Boulder, If the Denver channels are part of your local channel package, you'll keep them.

It's only when those are a part of a "Distant" Channel package, that they'll be disconnected as they were for a friend of mine who has the Los Angeles local package, but had the Denver as a distant network.

So, I'd still be picking up Denver 5 from the receiver in my RV in California? DishNetwork knows my RV is parked there.

:cool:

comitan - 12-1-2006 at 05:57 PM

Programming - NPS Aims To Fill DISH Net Breach (104 views)
From: 300k 2:53pm
To: John (JOHNCALLNPS) unread (1 of 7)
17904.1
JOhn, does the bulletin below mean those that are grandfathered can get distant networks now?

NPS Aims To Fill DISH Net Breach

EchoStar's loss of 800,000-plus distant net customers could become the National
Programming Service's (NPS) gain. As the court-ordered deadline loomed for the
company's DISH Network to cut off all distant network signals, NPS's Mike
Mountford struck a last-minute deal with the EchoStar CEO Charlie Ergen to
provide service for the subs left out to dry.

Under the agreement, which is similar to deals that EchoStar has with other
programming vendors, NPS would lease a transponder for $150,000 per month. In
exchange, the company would be able to sell its distant signal programming to
disenfranchised DISH customers that fit the so-called "white area" criteria.

The deal could prove a windfall for NPS which currently has 57,000 C-Band
subscribers (an enormously successful C-Band service by today's standards). In
order to receive the distant net signals, customers would have to sign up with
NPS either through the company's website (http://www.mydistantnetworks.com/) or
by phone (800.786.9677). Costs for the signals will range from $2.50/month for
one signal to $9/month for all four signals.

Potential customers would need to meet qualification criteria for the service
and NPS will handle all customer service operations. Once qualified, a DISH
customer would receive the distant networks seamlessly through their DISH
equipment.

Late Thursday both the broadcasters and DIRECTV had publicly objected to the NPS
scheme, claiming it would violate the injunction against DISH providing distant
network services. At press time, an emergency request was pending before Judge
William Dimitrouleas, who issued the original injunction.

Thanks

Reply Ignore
From: Chris (CHRISTR) 3:29pm
To: 300k unread (2 of 7)
17904.2 in reply to 17904.1
If you were grandfathered in you should have no problem getting the networks already with your 4DTV.

--Chris

Reply Ignore
From: Fred (W0FMS) 3:38pm
To: Chris (CHRISTR) 3:39pm (3 of 7)
17904.3 in reply to 17904.2
Is it just me or is this whole Dish/NPS thing turning into voodoo?

57K subs.. hmm.. I thought that number would never be released.

Fred
Reply Ignore
From: Chris (CHRISTR) 3:41pm
To: Fred (W0FMS) 4:02pm (4 of 7)
17904.4 in reply to 17904.3
Yeah, I donno.... could be dangerous for NPS. But, if they fall within the law, then they're covered regardless of how much DirecTV/etc whine. Of course, the only reason why Charlie is getting spanked by the courts is because he just ignored the law. I wonder how many of those distant network subs would actually qualify as legal subscribers?

As for the 57k CBand subs, that's not too bad... considering that's just NPS. Supposedly there are still around 100 - 150k subs or so for CBand, NPS has always said they had a little under half. YSP & SRL make up the rest.

--Chris

Reply Ignore
From: Fred (W0FMS) 4:04pm
To: Chris (CHRISTR) unread (5 of 7)
17904.5 in reply to 17904.4
If NPS allows even one wrong sub, then DirecTV and CBS will put them under. (Statistically that's gotta be likely).

NPS, to me is starting to make irrational decisions. I can only, as a personal opinion, speculate that they are starting to hurt.

I find it hard to believe that SRL has even close to than number...

Fred
Edited: 12/01/06 4:04pm
Reply Ignore
From: GlenTech (GLENTECH) 4:24pm
To: Fred (W0FMS) unread (6 of 7)
17904.6 in reply to 17904.5
>>I find it hard to believe that SRL has even close to than number...

SRL and Skyvision share the same programming so maybe together the numbers are higher. I know Skyvision has been around forever so that may be a driving force.

Motorola DSR-922, APC UPS, Unimesh 12XL 3.6 Meter Dish, National ADL C Band Feedhorn, California Amplifier Commercial Series LNB, Thomson Saginaw 24" Actuator. Primestar (Channel Master) 90 cm KU Dish, .9 NJR H/V LNB for X4. Toshiba 32" Direct View Monitor, GlenTech / Yamaha Custom Home Theater Audio Acoustic Design.

Satellite Technical Help Available from GlenTech Enterprises Here

Visit GlenTech Enterprises

My Satellite Dishes

Reply Ignore
From: thegrod 4:25pm
To: Fred (W0FMS) unread (7 of 7)
17904.7 in reply to 17904.5
How can you accuse NPS of irrational decisions? Let's not forget how much money Charlie could have thrown at this problem.....NPS is a business and they need to make money. If an opportunity comes along to make a significant amount of additional money many a business plan has been changed on the fly. Sometimes it's a big mistake and sometimes it's a windfall. There's no way to know all the terms of the deal so there's no way to accuse anyone of irrationality.
As an NPS subscriber to their "distant networks" for many years ( Denver) I do not want to lose that privelege so I'm concerned, but it's way bigger than what I want or even what all C Banders want. Ultimately, there are a million + people directly ( no pun intended) impacted by all of this.

Thegrod
DSR922, HDD200, Norsat 8115 and 4506A, UM1000A, VOOM and Moto OTA STB, Coship 2300B, Satwork 3618, Fortec Lifetime, Pansat 2500A, Satcruiser 101
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TMW - 12-1-2006 at 07:33 PM

If you have an RV you can get your distance TV package for it, then put it on your house.

The local TV stations will not grant a waiver for a distance TV signal over satellite if you can get the local signal over the satellite system (called local in local) or over the air with a roof top antenna getting a grade B signal or better. A grade B signal will typically be in the 250-300 microvolt range (depending on channel and whether it's UHF or VHF) and will provide a very good signal. The quality of signal depends and many things. Is there interference from another station or from some man made device for example.

"[Also a "class B" signal will be barely visible and will give you a headache in about 10 minutes. The local networks are not required to send out a quality signal.]"

Bob those are false statements. A class B signal is a very good signal and the local network affiliates are required to meet the same standards as everyone else. It's called FCC standards and governed by rules and regulations. I grant waivers on a regular basis to those that can not get our signal. For some I may have to do field strength measurements to see what is there. For RVs I tell them to send a copy of the vehicle registration to the satellite provider and if necessary I'll send them a waiver statement.

wornout - 12-1-2006 at 07:40 PM

Like everyone else, my distant channels are gone. Thank you dish network for NOT striking a deal with the network. Then they go on Charlie Chat on channel 240 and attempt to make us think it is the government. Well, the same government governs DirecTV and they still have distant channels, humm, wonder why that is? In all fairness, they did give two options for distant channels on the program, DirecTV and 'www.mydistantneworks.com'

I watched dish channel 240 and at least was able to get over to www.allamericandirect.com (which directs you to www.mydistantneworks.com'
) and at least start the ball rolling there for distant networks. It sounds like they will be able to provide service for about 1/3 of the 800 - 900k dish subscribers of distant network.

When I first entered the zip code for my mailing address, Calexico, back came a message I was not eligible. About 10 minutes later I received an email asking for some more information. In that email I asked it I could receive the distant networks from them since I am an RV'er. Still waiting for that answer.

What I like about them providing the local channels (Atlanta and San Francisco Fox, NBC, CBS and ABC ae their two cities) is they will provide each network for $2.50 a month or all Eight (8) feeds for $9.00. Yes, they stated they have one package price and it includes both the east and west cities I mentioned. We will see.

Bedman - 12-1-2006 at 08:38 PM

All this seems to have my head spinning.....

I have a motorhome and pay the extra $$ for the Dishnetwork receiver in it. Yesterday Dish did delete the East coast channels we were receiving. We still receive the Los Angeles channels.

Can I receive a waiver so I can again receive the East coast channels?

Bedman

Misinformation

MrBillM - 12-2-2006 at 09:51 AM

To Bedman. NO ! TW's info is outdated. What he describes was wiped out by the current court decision.

DISH Network DID reach agreement with the major networks that would allow it to continue broadcasting those stations. That agreement was Rejected by the Federal Court and the same court imposed the Most Severe penalty available which was to order Dish to disconnect ALL subscribers to the Distant channel packages, including RVers and others who were Legally receiving those channels.

As far as the difference between Dish and DirecTV, Direc was not accused of "Blatant" disregard in allowing subscribers in prohibited Zip codes to subscribe to Distant Channel Packages.

Also, when considering DirecTV, I went to their website and my understanding was that, in ANY area where they "offered" a local package (regardless of location), they would not also offer a distant package. Previously, I had checked Dish Local's for a Bozeman, Montana package and no locals were offered. However, DirecTV did offer a local package, therefore they would not offer a distant package.

Whatever remedy "might" be arrived at, it will NOT include subscribers in Zip Codes able to receive a Grade A or B broadcast signal from the major networks unless Congress decides to amend the SHVA legislation.

As far as Dish "knowing" where your receiver is, that could only occur if you tell them because there is NO Two-way transmission.

Court Decision vs Dish Network

MrBillM - 12-2-2006 at 10:13 AM

Here is the explanation posted by one of the RV Websites on the subject:

"This is not, overall, a "Dish vs Fox" issue. Because the 25 Fox-owned stations balked at a settlement, and may have done so because of the ownership of Fox and DirecTV, it is often being portrayed that way. More on that later.

The way congress sees it, with the laws they've passed, local stations need to have their broadcast areas protected. That is for advertising reasons, and protects both advertisers and station owners.

So, if you look at the document linked to, you will see that there are only 3 ways that someone living in one service area can be provided network service from another area.

One is that they cannot receive local stations over the air.
Two is that they are mobile.
Three is that the local stations are receivable, but the stations waive their protection rights (rarely done).

Where Dish got in trouble is that they ignored sections 1 and 3. If you lived anywhere in the country and said to Dish either "I can't get station A" or "I don't want station A" Dish would say fine, not bother to check, and just give you DNS. An estimated 800,000 unqualified Dish subscribers, meeting none of the above conditions, were getting DNS.

Dish was sued by the National Association of Broadcasters and the Networks. They lost at every turn. When their case hit the Federal Appeals court, that court came down with a much harsher judgement than the trial judge. They said all DNS had to be turned off for Dish, both because Dish needed to be punished, and because Dish could not be trusted in the future to properly offer DNS under the rules.

Dish hurried out to try to settle, and reached a $100 million agreement with everybody but the 25 Fox stations.

But, and this is the important part when Fox is brought up, the trial judge said NO settlement mattered or could be made. He said that he was under direct order to stop all DNS for Dish, period. And that's what he did.

I don't know if Dish will appeal, but of course passing through that same appellate court is likely a waste of time, so they have to get the Supreme Court to look at it, which is unlikely.

It appears that Dish realizes that now, which is why, although they are encouraging customers to appeal to congress, they are moving in the direction of pushing people to local-beamed satellite.

RVers, who were usually properly offered DNS, got caught in the middle of this battle. They weren't part of the lawsuit, but were made part of the judgement.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FINALLY ! For those who wish to read the 23 May 2006 11th Circuit Court of Appeals Decison:

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data2/circs/11th/0313671p.pdf

[Edited on 12-2-2006 by MrBillM]

Al G - 12-9-2006 at 04:51 PM

MrBillM...Thank you for your reply on my new topic. Some how I missed this one. I have been conned by Dish Network.
I just signed up with them and they were to send me an application for long distance channels. Now I know why

I may or may not have recourse with them.
What I need is alternatives...I am sure by now you have tryed all. If you have any suggestions, I would love to here them. Do you know anything about canada or :?:

Bedman - 12-9-2006 at 07:02 PM

Mr. Bill,

As always you provide good solid information. Thank you.

Here's an update on my Dish service. We no longer have the East coast feeds at our house in Orange County, ...........BUT!! We DO still have the East coast feed in the motorhome parked in Orange county. I was expecting them to drop off shortly after we lost the House feeds, but, they're still there!! Go figure!!

Bedman

Still have RV Channels

MrBillM - 12-9-2006 at 07:17 PM

Bedman - you bring up something that occurred with a close friend a few years back. Having a house in Southwestern Colorado, he had the Santa Fe, New Mexico Broadcast stations. Dish Network informed him that his service would be changed to the Denver Package by a given date, which it was. However, he had a receiver in Gonzaga which was offline for a couple of months. When he went down and booted it up, it still had the Santa Fe package in memory and he kept it for quite awhile. After selling his Colorado house, he changed to the Los Angeles local package with Denver as a distant network. Denver, of course, is gone now on his service.

The BEST answer, at least with Dish Network at this time, is to find an address in one of the Five (?) areas which have full coverage (not spotbeam). Those are New York, Atlanta, Denver, Los Angeles and (I'm told) San Francisco. For me only NY or ATL would give me East Coast feed and I've been out of luck, so far, in finding said address. I've got an ex-wife in the Atlanta area, but she'd only do it if she thought it would contribute to my death somehow.

Lee - 12-9-2006 at 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
As far as the difference between Dish and DirecTV, Direc was not accused of "Blatant" disregard in allowing subscribers in prohibited Zip codes to subscribe to Distant Channel Packages.

Whatever remedy "might" be arrived at, it will NOT include subscribers in Zip Codes able to receive a Grade A or B broadcast signal from the major networks unless Congress decides to amend the SHVA legislation.

As far as Dish "knowing" where your receiver is, that could only occur if you tell them because there is NO Two-way transmission.

About 1.5 years ago, I subscribed to Direct at home. I also have DishNet there. (Right. Two satellite systems?)

Anyway, wasn't sure how Direct would work out in my RV. Drove from Denver and lost the Direct signal around Rock Springs, WY. Called Direct from California and they said the only way they'd give me Denver network from my RV in CA was to have a 2nd account. That would have meant an account for home, and an account for my RV.

DishNet has known for years that my Dish receiver is in my RV in CA because after a few months of inactivity at my RV, they cut the signal. I then need to call them and have them turn it back on -- and in the process, I explain the receiver has been off because I wasn't using the RV. They've been fine with that so far. I'll find out shortly if I still have signal out there.

I'll report in.

:cool:

Lost Authorization

MrBillM - 12-9-2006 at 07:53 PM

It has become quite common for the account authorization to be lost when the receivers are offline for awhile. At least, that is, with the older legacy receivers (in this case 3900 models) once they went over to the new "Yellow" Smartcards. Prior to that, my receivers in Baja could be off for a month or more without a problem, but now one or more seems to have lost authorization when I return. I've found the best method to correct it is to put it online and then e-mail Dish Network tech support with a request to send an authorization signal. I explain the need by saying it's a spare receiver I keep in a closet for backup. It has worked well (usually within the hour) and I don't have to wait around on hold.

TMW - 12-10-2006 at 11:32 AM

"[I've got an ex-wife in the Atlanta area, but she'd only do it if she thought it would contribute to my death somehow.]"

Bill, tell her the radiation could kill you since your so far south.

Interesting Update

MrBillM - 12-15-2006 at 07:15 PM

Periodically, I've been checking in on the info available on Dish Network regarding the Distant Channel package information.

There is now a provider (AllAmericanDirect.com) that will supply BOTH San Francisco and Atlanta Broadcast Stations (ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC) for $9.00 per month for the package or $2.50 each A La Carte VIA your Dish Network receiver. The website is: http://www.mydistantnetworks.com.

IF your (U.S.) Billing Zipcode qualifies, no Problem. IF not, there is an RV waiver provided you can show an RV registration in your name.

Al G - 12-15-2006 at 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
Periodically, I've been checking in on the info available on Dish Network regarding the Distant Channel package information.

There is now a provider (AllAmericanDirect.com) that will supply BOTH San Francisco and Atlanta Broadcast Stations (ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC) for $9.00 per month for the package or $2.50 each A La Carte VIA your Dish Network receiver. The website is: http://www.mydistantnetworks.com.

IF your (U.S.) Billing Zipcode qualifies, no Problem. IF not, there is an RV waiver provided you can show an RV registration in your name.

MrbillM..
I downloaded the form and started to fill it out when I realized it was for San Francisco and Atlanta......Is this to mean I am in San Francisco so I will receive it on the road???

BCSTech - 12-16-2006 at 07:39 AM

As of Thursday night, I have three customers who were set up with LA addresses who all reported losing their LA locals. Word on the street is they moved the LA locals to spot beams.

Anyone else in South Baja with an LA address and signed up for the locals who can confirm this???

Spotbeams

MrBillM - 12-16-2006 at 10:08 AM

Since the Spotbeam footprint is "supposed" to cover a 150 mile radius from the focal point, IF ALL of the L.A. stations were moved to said spotbeam, there is almost nowhere in Baja that could receive the signal. South of San Felipe, the signals are still being received according to one neighbor. I'll find out Monday.

However, there is one caveat to the L.A. Locals which were originally on 148 west and were since moved to 119. For awhile now, I've had neighbors report that the stations were there during the daytime and would disappear at night. Starting about three months ago, I experienced the same phenomenon, albeit inconsistently. At times they remain around, at others they're gone. The interesting thing is that the station doesn't display a spotbeam number on the error message which is the norm. Thus far, I have found Nobody who knows exactly what's goint on there.

Personally, I don't give a crap what they do with the L.A. stations. I'd gladly trade them for the NY or ATL stations. While I'm still looking for an alternate Zip code to move my registered service, my fallback now is to register an RV with this new service. Since my L.A. and NY stations were costing $9.98 per month, $9.00 for San Francisco and Atlanta is the same deal. The downside is that you can only register ONE receiver.

Note to Al G: As an RVer, you are an "unserved household" and therefore are eligible. SF and ATL are on national feeds so you'll receive them anywhere you happen to be.

[Edited on 12-16-2006 by MrBillM]

BCSTech - 12-16-2006 at 10:38 AM

Five customers in Todos Santos and Los Barriles now reporting the LA Locals are gone from their systems.

The signal loss MrBillM is referring to is probably due to a slight "wobble" in the 119 space craft that shifts its pointing very slightly North during the late evening and early morning. It's not noticible in the US or on larger antennas here in Baja. But smaller or misaligned antennas operating near "the margin" of about 45 signal strength will experience this, regular as clockwork. The break point in Southern BCS is about 1.0 to 1.1 meter, same size as many converted DirecTV dishes.

Signal Strength

MrBillM - 12-16-2006 at 10:54 AM

On All of the antennas that I've aligned in Percebu, I have setup with a Signal Strength on 119 between 78 and 85 with a standard Single LNB or Dual LNB dish. The ones that are subscribing to the LA stations (five including my two) are experiencing the same problem. The others, which are subscribed to the SD locals (which are on spotbeam transponders) experience intermittent loss of those stations day or night which ARE possibly a result of satellite wobble since we are about 170 air miles from City Center.

While I'm not arguing against the "Wobble" explanation, for an extended period AFTER the move from 148 to 119, those stations worked fine, day or night. It's possible, of course, that the current wobble is different than previously.

BCSTech - 12-16-2006 at 11:11 AM

No doubt we're affected by it more here on the "outskirts." I've charted it on a number of our systems hour by hour, good weather/bad weather and it's consistent and predictable. We never see intermittant drop outs on LA or NY with a 6' antenna, even the mediocre ones made in Guadalarjara.

Jose, Can You See ? LA ?

MrBillM - 12-17-2006 at 11:52 AM

I received an e-mail response from another friend and They DID lose their LA Broadcast Networks the other evening, BUT the next a.m. they were back and haven't left again. Another neighbor NEVER lost the channels.

Very Strange. I'll find out what my Network status is Monday Afternoon when I power back up in Baja.

Locals Lost ?

MrBillM - 12-20-2006 at 05:59 PM

After arriving back this afternoon, I booted up one of my receivers and the L. A. Networks ARE there, BUT when I checked the Transponder info, I found that they ARE Now on a Spotbeam feed so that would explain those farther South losing those feeds. I'm surprised that we have them here. That spotbeam must have a larger coverage than the 150 miles. They'll probably go at night since they're on the same one ( 3) that the other locals have been on.

I suppose that's why the new company providing distant feeds is offering ONLY SF and ATL.

Al G - 12-20-2006 at 07:32 PM

I jumped through the hoops required and ordered from theses guys...
http://www.mydistantnetworks.com.
Don't know what will happen, but with my 20/22" dish will I see anything in Mulege?....Todos Santos?? Maybe... :biggrin:

What is the next step if I don't?
Also if I pay the $9 to distant networks, can I cancel my locals in San Francisco???

comitan - 12-20-2006 at 07:44 PM

Al

You left yesterday? He left!!!!!!

[Edited on 12-21-2006 by comitan]

Phil S - 12-20-2006 at 09:04 PM

I have Star Choice in Loreto. Great signal. I was told to leave my receiver on all the time, and I won't have a problem with it being turned off with lack of use. Anyone heard of this one???? (Star Choice uses two heads, apparantly using two sat.'s This leaves me with a 'standard Dish antenna I'm not using, and a 1 meter antenna I'm not using. All with the LNB's Anyone interested? 1 meter $125.00, and the standard $75.00 They are located in Loreto. U2U me if your interested.

Dish Size not a factor.

MrBillM - 12-21-2006 at 11:35 AM

Having a larger Dish will not help in receiving the L.A. Locals in Baja. Here, just south of San Felipe, I am getting a signal strength of 83-85 on my Dish 500 so there is plenty of signal strength.

The determining factor is simply location now that they have moved ALL of the L.A. Broadcast stations onto Spotbeam no. 3 (Sat 119). Obviously, as far South as I am, the situation is marginal since we do have coverage during the day and early evening. I'm accepting BCS Tech's "wobble explanation since nothing else fits. If you are farther South than I am, no doubt you'll lose those stations 24/7. No antenna will help.

IF you want to have Network Broadcast feeds, it appears that you'll have to have either a residence location within the SF or ATL areas OR get an RV Waiver (one receiver only).

BCSTech - 12-21-2006 at 11:45 AM

I just got off the phone with AllAmericanDirect. Their online qualifer form isn't working. Here's what I found out:

Remote addresses in areas like Alpine, TX apparently qualify to receive the SF and Atlanta distant locals through AAD, but LA and probably NY and other metropolitan addresses do not. This means I will need to shift many of my customers back to addresses where I had them set up before or else get them an RV Waiver, which AAD also offered as available.

AAD bills the customers for 6 months in advance; $54 for all feeds. They do not need to have the credit card info repeated to add the programming for qualifying customers. AAD apparently has DN's database and are able to cross reference their accounts by telephone number and/or DN account number.

Finding the Right Address

MrBillM - 12-21-2006 at 11:59 AM

That's the problem.

It HAS to be an address where Dish Network doesn't offer ANY Local channel package. So far, I haven't come up with one among my friends and relatives. Even those in some rural areas are being offered local packages from some city other than SF or ATL. All of those others are on Spotbeams so it's either an address in one of the two (SF /ATL) OR one so rural that it is eligible for none.

Someone in such a rural address could make a few bucks by supplying their address as a dummy. I'd pay a reasonable fee. If you're like me, nothing ever comes to my residence since I pay online. The "address" supplier could say it is an apartment house if the question ever came up regarding multiple accounts.

BCSTech - 12-21-2006 at 12:38 PM

Got 'em. $85 to set up.

SDRonni - 12-21-2006 at 02:29 PM

When we move into our condo in Rosarito Beach, should we use DirecTV or Dish or cable? We would want to be able to view San Diego channels......we live in San Diego......

Reeljob - 12-21-2006 at 03:00 PM

Try Silverton, Colorado or Sunnyside, Nevada. Be sure you use a good billing address. It does not have to be in "residence" zip.

Rosarito

MrBillM - 12-21-2006 at 03:38 PM

Rosarito is well within the 150-mile radius of the Dish Network San Diego spotbeam.

As I said earlier, The San Diego feed works at times in our area (approx 170 air miles from San Diego).

SF and ATL Distant Channels

MrBillM - 12-26-2006 at 03:33 PM

Because Dish Network was offering the SF and the ATL feeds as a national feed through the third-party vendor, it was assumed that Dish Network was leaving those two Cities on "Conus" or nationwide feeds, however, I looked up the feed info on Dish Network's SF feeds and Those feeds ARE shown on a spotbeam so it may be that ONLY the feeds provided via AllAmericanDirect will be available nationwide.

The bottom line then is that an alternate subscription address with Dish Network in either the SF or ATL areas still won't get you the feeds outside those cities local area.

RATS !

BCSTech - 12-26-2006 at 09:47 PM

Quote:

The bottom line then is that an alternate subscription address with Dish Network in either the SF or ATL areas still won't get you the feeds outside those cities local area.

All American Direct has been offering to submit waiver requests to the local SF networks on behalf of people with SF addresses. No guarantee this will work but might be worth a try.

Al G - 12-27-2006 at 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BCSTech

Quote:

The bottom line then is that an alternate subscription address with Dish Network in either the SF or ATL areas still won't get you the feeds outside those cities local area.

All American Direct has been offering to submit waiver requests to the local SF networks on behalf of people with SF addresses. No guarantee this will work but might be worth a try.

BCSTech...They flat told me no 6 days ago. I am waiting for RV approval now. Can anyone guess how long is the wait?
I mailed it 6 days ago....

BCSTech - 12-27-2006 at 12:53 PM

Interesting. A customer with an SF address told me that AAD offered to send in the regular waivers on their behalf with an expected 2 to 4 week turnaround. I confirmed with them that this was not an RV waiver.

Sounds like AAD may not have this all down yet, either.

The Final Word on Distant Networks

MrBillM - 12-28-2006 at 05:03 PM

When SHVIA was reauthorized in 2004 as SHVERA, the basis for receiving Distant Channel Networks was revised so that ONLY those already receiving them prior to Dec 2004 who were also receiving A Local Channel package could continue to do so. ANY NEW SUBSCRIBERS who reside in an area where the Satellite provider has a local channel package is prohibited by Federal Law from receiving the Distant Networks.

ANYONE who says that they will help to get waivers is blowing smoke.

The Doc below is from the FCC's website. I have underlined the pertinent language.

[Edited on 12-29-2006 by MrBillM]

[Edited on 12-29-2006 by MrBillM]

Shivera2.jpg - 49kB

BCSTech - 12-29-2006 at 06:14 PM

Quote:

ANYONE who says that they will help to get waivers is blowing smoke.

I should clarify; AAD only offered to submit waivers on behalf of a customer with a SF address to receive the SF locals via satellite. They didn't say they could obtain the waivers. My understanding is that it is up to the individual local networks to decide whether or not to approve such waivers.

I'm not a lawyer but I don't see where local networks granting waivers is a violation of SHVERA as printed above.

comitan - 12-29-2006 at 07:29 PM

After reading the SHVERA, it specifically states Analog transmission I didn't think Dish was Analog transmission.

TMW - 12-30-2006 at 09:28 AM

Dish, Direct TV etc are not transmitting in analog. By analog they mean they are picking up the local stations analog signal for rebroadcast over satellite. For example in Bakersfield the local stations will not approve a waiver for an out of area analog signal (because the locals analog are in the satellite providers feed) but will approve an out of area digital if they are in an area where the digital signal can not be picked up with a roof top antenna, like Tehachapi, because the satellite provider in this area does not include the local digital signals.

Analog

MrBillM - 12-30-2006 at 01:48 PM

DirecTV is specifically citing the language in SHVERA as the LEGAL prohibition that keeps them from providing Distant Network Channels into an area where they have offered a "Locals" Channel package. Whether or not, the "Street" Lawyers among the Nomad Clan Believe that the wording provides such prohibition or NOT, the fact that DirecTV DOES makes any such nit-picking a useless, if entertaining, discussion.

However, I might also point out that said Legal Beagles are misinterpreting the SHVERA Language. It is referring to the retransmission (by whatever mode) of a distant analog broadcast signal into a different Local Market. Those distant channels are "broadcast" analog to their local market.

In any case, as I said, DirecTV is interpreting the language as such and they are specifically allowed by the legislation to NOT broadcast said signals if their policy is such. No legal recourse there. UNFORTUNATELY.

Although I'm searching for an alternative i.e. a DirecTV customer still receiving the NY feed who I can pay to add a receiver to their account, even that might be short-lived. All it would take is for DirecTV to tighten up their Sat footprint so that Only the U.S. is covered, although as far North as I am, I might still be OK.

comitan - 12-30-2006 at 02:00 PM

Bill

Why do you have to answer a question thats been already been answered, (Don't you think that is kind of a sign of senility.) deleted per my wifes suggestion. Luckily none of this pertains to me since I am on C Band and get 8 of the Denver channels in HDTV for $123.00 per anum. To get this you have to have a big dish, HDTV receiver and have a USA address and be grandfathered in.

BCSTech - 12-30-2006 at 02:03 PM

Quote:

DirecTV is specifically citing the language in SHVERA as the LEGAL prohibition that keeps them from providing Distant Network Channels into an area where they have offered a "Locals" Channel package.

Sorry, are we talking about DirecTV, or Dish Network and AAD? :?:

Dish Network Local Channels Package

Al G - 12-30-2006 at 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BCSTech

Quote:

DirecTV is specifically citing the language in SHVERA as the LEGAL prohibition that keeps them from providing Distant Network Channels into an area where they have offered a "Locals" Channel package.

Sorry, are we talking about DirecTV, or Dish Network and AAD? :?:

I do not think Directv has a stop broadcasting order.
But I could be wrong.... :biggrin:

all that I know is the problem for me ....Directv....Sur...no worky. ME....Dishnetwork....Sur....distant locals....No worky.
Waiting for the "in the know" people to make me Know...

C Band Long Gone !

MrBillM - 12-30-2006 at 05:23 PM

I gave away the C Band Dish I had in Baja in 1995. Dish "seemed" to fulfill all of my requirements.

I had looked at DirecTV as a possible alternative since I know a few people who have Direc and are still getting the NY feeds (per the noted above) having had them for years. However, DirecTV as stated have said they are prohibited by law from delivering those to an area wherein they are transmitting a local channel package.

The same prohibition would hold true for AAD. In their descriptive literature, they are offering the SF-ATL channels ONLY to Dish customers who are in areas that qualify as "unserved households" and those eligible for an RV waiver.

This leaves NO facility for receiving the EAST COAST Feed (s) that are still on a "conus" beam EXCEPT to find a subscriber with DirecTV who still has the distant channel package and would be willing to add a receiver for a price. So far, the only ones I know are already serving other family members by carrying multiple receivers on their account, but who knows, given time and tenacity I will probably find one.

Bajabus - 12-30-2006 at 07:57 PM

MrBill as is normal for you most of the time, you are wrong....all my dishnetwork customers get NY east coast feeds....that includes my customers in Todos Santos, Rancho Nuevo, Elias Calles, Punta pescadero, other points on the east cape road and even here in NC, USA customers get a few more channels.
002 WCBS
004 WNBC
005 WNYW
007 WABC
009 WWOR
011 WPIX
013 WNET
241 NBC
243 CBS
245 ABC
247 FOX
249 PBS
8100 WABC
8101 WCBS
8102 WNBC
8103 WNYW
8104 WPIX
8105 WWOR
8106 WNET
8107 WLNY
8108 WXTV
8109 WNJU
8110 WFTY
8112 WLIW
8113 WNJB
8114 WNYE
8115 WMBC
8116 WRNN
8117 WFME
8118 WNYN

I sell the already configured and activated receivers in the states and in B.C.S. I also have 1.5 meter dishes in the states and in Baja although the 1.2 meter has been working pretty good. You only get sat 119 unless you use two dishes and a switch, then you also get 110.

Contact me off the board if you want the secret or equipment.

like UPS....I always deliver.

[Edited on 31-12-2006 by Bajabus]

[Edited on 31-12-2006 by Bajabus]

Al G - 12-30-2006 at 08:56 PM

Someone ask me not to give away all the secrets :biggrin:

I don't think you were paying attention :biggrin:

oh well it was not my secret.... :lol:

New York???what is so important here??? old times, like me....old places...sorry no importance to me...no real disrespect, but would go there if you paid me...Hummmmm
Make an offer...I have suffered before if the price was right. :lol:

BCSTech - 12-30-2006 at 09:04 PM

My concern about the DN NY feeds is whether they won't go spot beam just like LA did. I was totally surprised DN would do it with LA. This was shortly after I moved some customers to LA to get those locals. I would hate to move customers to NY only to have this happen again a week later...

Bajabus - 12-30-2006 at 09:47 PM

Alan, there is always that chance....time will tell in this business.

I mostly just enjoyed watching Mr bill pontificate and frustrate himself over the past few weeks. I could not contain myself any longer and had to let the cat out of the bag so I could get a good jab at him. It's just too much fun to poke at folks like Bill that ride their high horses and claim to know it all.

It's pretty much a cat and mouse game for me and I enjoy it, from first figuring out how to make INTERNET via satellite work in Baja back in 2001 when everyone said it was impossible to the current situation. I am fairly confident that if they take NY off the conus that there will be a workaround for our customers.

I know that you are my competition in B.C.S. but you seem to be a nice guy, are good to your customers and there is always room for good dealers and installers that know how to support their clients. It's the quickie take the money and run guys down here that really upset me.

All it takes is 5 min online to get the feed and 4.95 per month so it's worth the effort even if it only lasts a short while. No pain No gain.

BCSTech - 12-30-2006 at 10:00 PM

Quote:

I know that you are my competition in B.C.S. but you seem to be a nice guy, are good to your customers and there is always room for good dealers and installers that know how to support their clients. It's the quickie take the money and run guys down here that really upset me.

Competition??? Didn't know I had any other than the pirates in CSL and SJDC

. Seriously, there is so much business here, more than enough for everyone.

More than I can handle...

Bajabus - 12-30-2006 at 10:18 PM

No I'm not talking about the pirates like those crazy guys that were selling hacked cards. You sell Hughesnet I sell Starband. You buy from that nut job Mel in Houston right? I hope he cuts you a good deal. He peeed me off years ago and I eventually cut him out of the loop. He took forever to help with issues, build accounts, ship equipment etc, charged too much also. I like having control over the chain so I can maintain quality support and not have to depend on folks like Mel.

TV is not really my main thing.....I just dabble in it for some of my good and long term customers.

There is a ton of work down there alright.....BCS been very very good to me.

Like my dad said...there is always room at the top if you are good.

BCSTech - 12-30-2006 at 10:28 PM

I like Mel but I don't buy everything from him. Wouldn't make sense and he knows it.

Actually, his company has been pretty responsive but I understand what you mean about control over the chain...

Bajabus - 12-30-2006 at 10:51 PM

Well I am glad you get along with him...maybe he has mellowed out with time.

Good luck in all you do sir and happy holidays.

Max

BCSTech - 12-30-2006 at 10:54 PM

Same here, Max...

Alan

The Busted Nut with ALL The Secrets

MrBillM - 12-31-2006 at 10:42 AM

There are NO Dishnetwork customers legally receiving ANY Distant Network Feeds. Period. That (and how it might be circumvented) has been the essence of my so-called "pontification" and IS correct, despite what the Old Hippie Lout might say. Words are cheap and he can make up whatever story he wants. I'll stand on ANY specific statements I have made as the situation became clearer and challenge him to point out any Provable, Factual falsehoods on my part.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data2/circs/11th/0313671p.pdf

There is the Federal Court judgement in its entirety, but OF Course, BBD "knows" the SECRETS. Kiss his ring and join the ranks of the "Illuminati".

We already KNOW that an address within the NY local area will allow you to receive those stations. I doubt that qualifies, but within the mysterious chamber pots that make up BBDs delusions, there is no oddity too extreme.

Bajabus - 12-31-2006 at 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM

This leaves NO facility for receiving the EAST COAST Feed (s) that are still on a "conus" beam EXCEPT to find a subscriber with DirecTV who still has the distant channel package and would be willing to add a receiver for a price. So far, the only ones I know are already serving other family members by carrying multiple receivers on their account, but who knows, given time and tenacity I will probably find one.

I never said it was legal did I........what makes you think your above solution is any more legal?

Seem to me the quote above by you indicates that there is no other solution to getting NY feeds.....Unless you are talking in some sort of secret code.

The Dyslectic Left Nut

MrBillM - 12-31-2006 at 11:41 AM

From Busted:

" MrBill as is normal for you most of the time, you are wrong..."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As usual, the Busted Nut decides to change direction when confronted. the Legal question has been drummed to death and is not the issue in the above quote. As indicated, I could give a Crap about what is or isn't legal in this particular debate.

Simply substantiate your statement and indicate WHERE in this post, the FACTS that I presented as the discussion proceeded were "wrong".

Bajabus - 12-31-2006 at 11:50 AM

Alright I'll post it again since your eyes and memory seem to be failing......you may want to consult a doctor.

If you want I can make it bold for you...just let me know.

Quote:

GENTLEMEN

Stickers - 12-31-2006 at 12:16 PM

Hey Bajabus & MrBill, we are not discussing politics here.
I find this thread informative and interesting so cant you guys get along?
Just think - conservatives and liberals like watching television so there you have something in common. I would bet you two have many interests in common.
LIGHTEN UP AND ENJOY dwelling on politics is a no win situation.

:yes:

Bajabus - 12-31-2006 at 12:31 PM

Stickers, no politics here in any of my posts unless you are referencing my sig line which appears in all my posts.....Not sure why Bill has to make a left wing conspiracy out of everything.

I am an equal opportunity capitalist even though at times I have discounted pricing to democratic party donors.

BCSTech - 12-31-2006 at 02:32 PM

Bottom line is, it is possible for DN customers in both BCN and BCS to receive the Networks without sharing an account with a friend or family member. I know this and Max knows this because we both have customers set up that way.

BTW, sharing an account probably won't work for very long anyway because DN periodically audits multi-receiver accounts. Especially likely they'll audit if one or more of the receivers in a multi receiver account doesn't "phone home" to the Mother Ship once in a while from a common US phone number...

bajaguy - 12-31-2006 at 04:11 PM

If I have DN, can I get San Diego stations in Ensenada???

Bajabus - 12-31-2006 at 04:21 PM

I suspect that the local spot beam to SD would probably be wide enough to cover Ensenada but I am not positive. In general they are at least 150 to 300 miles wide.

Repeat After ME, NO DNS, NO DNS on Dish

MrBillM - 12-31-2006 at 05:07 PM

Are you really as DENSE as you appear ? Lacking a 2 x 4 to dent that Thick Skull, I'll try again.

Dish Network is NOW Prohibited by FEDERAL LAW from offering Distant Network Service to Anyone regardless of their Legal Status under SHVIA and SHVERA. PERIOD. READ the Decision. IF you think you know different, you ARE as deluded as you seem. Dish can only offer LOCAL network stations into an address that qualifies. SO. if you are a Dish Customer, you're only able to receive those feeds if your address is local to the noted feed.

Only the NEW AAD can offer Dish Customers DISTANT Network Feeds and ONLY If they are in an "unserved" area OR via an RV Waiver. Look it up. Don't fear the Big words. Keep a dictionary handy.

This leaves DirecTV as the ONLY facility STILL supplying Distant Network Stations to those customers qualifying Prior to Dec 2004 OR those within an "unserved" area. They, too, will NOT provide that service if they are offering a Local Channel Feed in that area.

Since 96 % of the U.S. is now served by Local Channel packages, that leaves darn few addresses which can qualify as "unserved" households.

BTW, regarding "phone home", since 1995, I have NEVER had more than a single receiver (total four) connected to a phone line in the U.S. and have also never encountered any problems in that respect. Dish and Direc seem to be using the four receiver figure as a threshold. I have neighbors with receivers in excess of that who HAVE been contacted by Dish or Direc, but even then, whatever story they came up with was accepted. When I talked to Dish about adding a fifth reciever, they indicated they would need additional verification before doing so. I dropped the idea. I don't know about BCS's terrritory, but up here, the number of people who have multiple receivers on their account NOT connected to any phone lines is pretty substantial. Nobody's having any problems.

[Edited on 1-1-2007 by MrBillM]

Bajabus - 12-31-2006 at 05:49 PM

Well you can think what you want bill. I think I'll just settle in and watch some imaginary distant network stations while you go get your Alzheimer's medicine....LOL

Why are you mentioning what's legal or not, just up thread you said you "didn't give a crap about what's legal or not"

Any way I am really enjoying my fictitious, and only available on directv distant network stations....do you want me to record something for you and send it? I can even send it up on an INTERNET tube if you want....ROTFLMAO!!!

BCSTech - 12-31-2006 at 05:58 PM

Sorry this thread has locked itself into a "You don't know what you're talking about" spiral. Not very helpful to other readers trying to understand this issue, no?

I don't think this discussion is about the official "Distant Network Service" being available from Dish Network on the Dish Network system. Clearly, it is not and that point was made about 4 pages ago.

But this does not mean you can't receive networks in BCN and BCS. I'll post more only if and when I have something useful to add here beyond what has already been said.

Nothing Left to be Said

MrBillM - 1-1-2007 at 10:10 AM

I Agree. Having beaten the subject to Death, there is nothing left to be said beyond the requisite daily tit-for-tat between myself and the Busted Left Lug Nut who possesses secret knowledge handed down by the Elders of the Cosmos and available only to those found deserving the Blessings of the Bus. Such ethereal wisdom and knowledge is unattainable for those lesser mortals among us and it is futile to struggle against the will of the Gods.

How can we Possibly logically compete with wisdom that says in essence "You are wrong (as usual) and I COULD prove that, but only to those who contact me secretly for edification".

A-M-F Busted.