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SMOG CERT.

Keri - 12-7-2006 at 07:47 PM

I read this on another thread.
MORE ON SMOG EXEMPTIONS - Many Californians don't realize that there is also a smog inspection exemption for owners that can prove they have driven their vehicles into Baja Sur. There is an actual "minimum miles from the border" clause to avoid exempting all the trans-border commuters in TJ, but the exemption does exist and most of the DMV agents in the San Diego area are familiar with it. Due to the rather high cost to import and then maintain current plates on Mexican cars, I prefer buying in California and maintaining registry there. Of course it helps if you are regularly going back north to take care of things like this.

To avoid long lines in San Diego area DMV offices, I usually use the DMV office in Ventura, where they are not as familiar with this exemption. They usually have to look it up in a huge book of CA vehicle code. You will have to fill out a statement of facts and show some proof of domicile in Baja Sur. If anyone can quote me the actual chapter and verse for this California law I would appreciate it (the people at the counter always refuse to tell me the actual number)!

It sure would be nice if the Mexican vehicles had a smog inspection program, however! - Jim Elfers
Anyone know the code they are talking about. I have to have my car smogged before the 15th and I sure don't want to If I don't have to. Any help out there? k :?:

oxxo - 12-7-2006 at 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keri
I have to have my car smogged before the 15th and I sure don't want to If I don't have to.

Why not get it smogged anyway? It is good for the environment and the air you breathe.

[Edited on 12-8-2006 by oxxo]

Keri - 12-7-2006 at 08:02 PM

My car is only used in Baja . I don't want to drive it to the states if I don't have to. It is an older ford windstar. Very hard to pass inspections and expensive if not necessary,k

bajalou - 12-7-2006 at 08:12 PM

Two soultions for your problem Keri.

1st - rent a P.O.Box in El Centro or Calexico. Imperial county does not have periodic smog inspections - only on change of ownership.

2nd - register it in South Dakota. This can be done by mail very easily. You need a mail address somewhere for them to mail the plates to you but you do not have to have a address (or anything else) in SD.

u2u me if you want more info on both of these options.

The Bronco II that stays forever in Mex has SD plates.

[Edited on 12-8-2006 by bajalou]

fandango - 12-7-2006 at 08:23 PM

keri: when i was preparing to take a truck to live in mexico, i simply called the dmv 800 number and the agent gave me the form number and i printed it from their website. it was very simple and i did not have to provide proof of where the truck was going to live. seems to me that the mileage is 90 miles from the border, that could be incorrect though.

oxxo - 12-8-2006 at 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keri
My car is only used in Baja . I don't want to drive it to the states if I don't have to. It is an older ford windstar. Very hard to pass inspections and expensive if not necessary,k

Just because it is Mexico, is it okay to polute the air there? Just because Mexicans don't smog their cars, does that mean Americans shouldn't be responsible and smog their cars. I understand that Mexicdo City is the smoggiest city in the world. Is that the way Baja should be eventually?

Yes, it IS expensive to smog older cars, but the alternatives to our bodies (health issues) from breathing dirty air is even more expensive. Yes, living in Baja does present some logistical problems from time to time, but that is one of the penalties for living in Baja. Yes it IS necessary to have all cars smogged.

DENNIS - 12-8-2006 at 07:40 AM

When in Mexico, do as the Mexicans do.

oxxo - 12-8-2006 at 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
When in Mexico, do as the Mexicans do.

Do you mean throw trash alongside the road?

Al G - 12-8-2006 at 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by oxxo

Quote:

OXXO...I too do not want oil belching gross polluters.
With that said, I consider you a ridiculous extremist.
I have read most of your posts and would suggest you take a hard, critical look at being so "cut and dried" extreme.
Ask your self why some places do not smog :light:

""Just because it is Mexico, is it okay to polute the air there?"" Daaaa....Maybe because they don't need to :lol:

Don't I just love righteous( learned everything they know from Beserkly) Extremist. :fire:

This is what I call extreme. My motorhome traveled a total of 780 miles in 2 years. I maintain it in perfect running condition. When I attempted to smog, it just barely failed.
I am a great mechanic and had already tuned and tighten.
I had replaced the carburetor gasket, warmed engine and re-tighten it again. At this point I went along with the recommended diagnose and re-test. After 2 hours and 300.00 it passed when he finally found the carb loose and tighten it

The reason I passed this along, is to point out what tree-huggers and the alike extremist have done to our world.
If you think you have done good, you are wrong. Just drive in LA on almost any day(carry a sock to breath through). The cause is not cars poluting...it is oil companies, and dumb Californians. Prop. 87 just failed. Extremist must do something, not whine. :fire:

We need better fuel, not a corrupt, blood sucking smog industry.

Keri...I hope you succeed in your quest.

Al G - 12-8-2006 at 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by oxxo

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
When in Mexico, do as the Mexicans do.

Do you mean throw trash alongside the road?

You know he did not mean that...Just trying tio agitate like a good extremist are you???? :lol:

Having it Both Ways ?

MrBillM - 12-8-2006 at 11:05 AM

I keep hearing from the Usual Suspects that it is SO important that the foreign residents follow and obey the Mexican Laws. FINE. I'm more than willing to follow Mexican air-pollution laws on Every Vehicle I drive in Baja.

Being an honest, law-abiding citizen, I am Also committed to obeying the U.S. (California) laws as they apply to Imperial County.

No Problema.

[Edited on 12-8-2006 by MrBillM]

DENNIS - 12-8-2006 at 12:38 PM

Is "throwing trash alongside the road" a Mexican custom? Is littering a cultural trait?
If either is the case, then, yes. Throw all of your trash alongside the road.
If pig behavior is the exception to majority behavior then, no. Dispose of trash accordingly, except for loaded disposable diapers which roll around the Gigante parking lot like bowling balls. That's OK.

oxxo - 12-8-2006 at 01:49 PM

Smogging your car does cut down on polution. Yes, it can involve some expense and some inconvenience, but it is the right thing to do for the environment. You are either part of the problem or part of the solution.

Dirty Baja Cars

MrBillM - 12-8-2006 at 02:04 PM

You have to wonder, in terms of overall pollution, does the car or cars you have for casual use in Baja pollute any more than the vehicle you drive for long distances each day which does meet the standards ?

Additionally, if you want a vehicle which will likely pass smog regardless of engine condition, it's the Suzuki Samurai. I've got two in decent condition, but both with around 90K. When smogging the "worst" of the two, I was surprised that the levels recorded (though high) were a fraction of the allowance for that vehicle. My friend (who did the test) said that he'd never seen a Samurai that didn't pass.

Speaking of relative pollution levels, at one time I bought a 1969 GMC pickup from a friend who had just rebuilt the 350 engine with complete disregard for pollution controls. Aftermarket manifold with Four-Barrel Holley, a mild performance Cam, high-compression, etc. He trashed all of the smog controls so we went to someone we knew to get a certificate. While there, he ran the engine and it Met the maximum levels for that vehicle. It simply wasn't legal because the equipment was gone.

After rebuilding, the engine consistently got 18-20 mpg so you could say that I was contributing Less to the same vehicle in "Legal" condition.

I once (1975-76) tuned a customer's Porsche 914-4 to meet Smog requirements and the vehicle ran like crap. I told the customer to bring it back the next day and we'd get someone to retune it to run well. Which he (and we) did.

bajalou - 12-8-2006 at 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by oxxo
Smogging your car does cut down on polution. Yes, it can involve some expense and some inconvenience, but it is the right thing to do for the environment. You are either part of the problem or part of the solution.

Smoging our cars does not cut down on pollution. The tuning etc of the car is what keeps pollution down. If you believe testing will reduce the pollution, I encourage you to have your's tested every week.

DENNIS - 12-8-2006 at 05:26 PM

I dont live in Rosarito Beach but, if I did, and I was worried about my car adding to the problem, I would be blind to the facts. Especially the one that shows their refinery pumping pollution into the sky day and night.
Besides, where does it say that if one doesn't pay the state of California a tax, that your car is polluting the atmosphere? I keep my car tuned, that's the best we can do or hope for.

OXXO ----- Jeezo, if you're so worried about keeping the environment clean, you should hang around any street here and see how many people spit on the sidewalk.

oxxo - 12-8-2006 at 06:44 PM

Anyone who wants to argue that tuning (yes tuning) your car to smog standards does not reduce polution, then have at it. The facts are that tuning your car to smog standards does in fact, reduce polution. It is unimportant what other people or induistries do. It is about personal responsibility. You are either PART of the problem or PART of the solution. Just get your cars smogged regardless of the expense or inconvenience.

DENNIS - 12-8-2006 at 06:55 PM

And, get a flu shot.

Frigatebird - 12-8-2006 at 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by oxxo
...You are either PART of the problem or PART of the solution...

I disagree. How much of the problem you are, is the real issue. If you are here, you are part of it. It is unavoidable.

And solutions? Patience may be in order.

Skipjack Joe - 12-8-2006 at 11:18 PM

I've never seen smog in baja. There are simply not enough vehicles to cause smog. I am no expert on the subject but as I recall air pollutants break down over a short period of time. It's when the concentration of pollution grows in a small area over a short period of time that you get smog and the accompanying health issues.

It's really unreasonable to expect the people of a sparsely inhabited desert to worry about air pollution. Eventually air pollution will come to baja though (perhaps La Paz, Ensenada, and the like already have).

oxxo - 12-9-2006 at 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Frigatebird

I disagree. How much of the problem you are, is the real issue. If you are here, you are part of it. It is unavoidable.

And solutions? Patience may be in order.

Solutions? Yes, get your car smogged.

oxxo - 12-9-2006 at 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
I've never seen smog in baja.

Out in the wilderness, no. Near the larger cities, yes.

Quote:

There are simply not enough vehicles to cause smog.

Incorrect. Every improperly tuned vehicle causes smog

Quote:

I am no expert on the subject but as I recall air pollutants break down over a short period of time.

Incorrect. Smog is a contributing factor to "greenhouse gases". Smog doesn't "breakdown over a short period of time". It enters the upper atmosphere.

Quote:

It's when the concentration of pollution grows in a small area over a short period of time that you get smog and the accompanying health issues.

Only partly true. Smog contributes to larger global issues. It is very shortsighted to think because smog is not in back yard it is not my problem.

Do the responsible thing for your children and grandchildren. Have your car tuned to meet smog emmissions standards.

Quote:

It's really unreasonable to expect the people of a sparsely inhabited desert to worry about air pollution.

Why is it an unreasonable expectation? An improperly tuned car causes smog even in a sparsely inhabited desert.

Do the responsible thing for your children and grandchildren. Have your car tuned to meet smog emmissions standards.

Quote:

Eventually air pollution will come to baja though (perhaps La Paz, Ensenada, and the like already have).

Probably. So let's be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

Good Work, Greenies ! Keep Tilting !

MrBillM - 12-9-2006 at 10:41 AM

There are a lot of windmills still standing.

Given that my individual contribution is insignificant in terms of the overall problem of Industrial Pollution, I'm depending on you to work extra hard at curbing Air Pollution because I don't intend to do anything the law doesn't require me to do.

I saw the other day on the news that the major cities in China are so heavily polluted that it is difficult seeing tall buildings a short distance away. To a lesser degree, the same problem exists in Japanese, Indian and (even) Mexican cities, none of which are making any real effort at curbing polluters.

oxxo - 12-9-2006 at 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
There are a lot of windmills still standing.

Thanks for the encouragment. We are making progress.

Quote:

Given that my individual contribution is insignificant in terms of the overall problem of Industrial Pollution,

But it is a contribution. Think about the next generation.

Quote:

I'm depending on you to work extra hard at curbing Air Pollution

I'm doing my best.

Quote:

because I don't intend to do anything the law doesn't require me to do.

No you won't BillyBob. You have already posted that you tuned your friends car so that it would pass the smog test one day and then tune so itg that it will polute the next. You will do the same with your own vehicle. You just don't get it.

Believe it or not, I am a very conservative person, maybe even more conservative than you. I believe that less government is good government, fewer laws are better laws. I don't want to be forced by government to do anything. When that happens, they often force you to do nonsensical stuff. That is why I would rather act responsibly and do the responsible thing so that governemnt does not get involved to make me do something. Improved air quality is not nonsense.

Do the responsible thing and get your car smogged despite the expense and inconvenience. It will reduce air polution to some degree.

Quote:

I saw the other day on the news that the major cities in China are so heavily polluted that it is difficult seeing tall buildings a short distance away. To a lesser degree, the same problem exists in Japanese, Indian and (even) Mexican cities, none of which are making any real effort at curbing polluters.

You are unfortunately correct.

bajalou - 12-9-2006 at 11:31 AM

I really get worried if I can't see what I breath.

The Slant-Eyed 800 LB Gorilla

MrBillM - 12-9-2006 at 11:45 AM

Speaking of China (on a slightly tangental issue), it was noted yesterday or Thursday that the Chinese have adopted their own DVD standare (EVD) which will compete with the current two HD standards currently vying for supremacy. They actually had brought out this standard awhile back, but withdrew it when the rest of the world refused to go along. NOW, they are bringing it back and decreeing that after a coming date, there will be NO DVD players built anywhere in China to other standards. If the rest of the world doesn't want to go along, they said that their domestic market will support their decision. This will, of course put sizeable pressure on World Markets to go along.

This is just the latest example of what we're going to see from China as they flex their huge economic muscles. The day is gone when anyone will be able to dictate economics or anything else to China. As the filthiest factory polluters in the world, they, more than anyone else, will determine the future.

Damn that RMN.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lou's comment reminds me of a Wedding I went to in Culver City many, many years back when I was living in Indio. After the ceremony, I was standing around with the other guys outside the chapel and one remarked what a "Beautiful" day it was and the others agreed, adding their own comments. Dumbfounded, I looked around at the dense Smog obscuring even the nearby hills completely and I asked "You consider this a Beautiful Day with all of this Smog" ? "oh, that's just normal, they all said". Well, OK. I guess you just get used to it.

[Edited on 12-9-2006 by MrBillM]

DENNIS - 12-9-2006 at 12:16 PM

OXXO---
Actually I agree with most of what you say, just not the intensity of it. I said earlier, when in Mexico, do as the Mexicans do. Living by their standards is good citizenship. We would be considered arogant to promote a "better" way of life. There are so many things one could do which would benefit the atmosphere such as, not driving at all. Are you willing to pay that price while living in a society with fume belching busses and unfiltered refinery stacks? Are you willing to pay that price anywhere?
Probably not.
See OXXO? We all have our line in the sand which we wont cross. You have yours as well albeit in a different place. But, until you reach your line, you're a polluter as much as anybody.
Or, maybe you dont drive a car and I'm wrong.
In defense of a zero pollution effort, I have heard that birds cant live in Mexico City. Any truth to that?

oxxo - 12-9-2006 at 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Living by their standards is good citizenship. We would be considered arogant to promote a "better" way of life.

It is up to the Mexican nationals how they want to run their country. I have no intention of telling Mexicans how to do things but I do intend to lead by example. We are Americans driving American plated cars. We knew the rules when we bought our US plated cars. We know that a properly tuned car meeting smog emission standards will reduce the amount of smog in the atmosphere. We Americans can set an example for the rest of the world about how to clean up the environment. Eventually, Mexico (China, india) will have to do something about their air polution. It would be nice if we Americans could show them what good global citizens can do if we act responsibly.

I know that we will never reach a level of zero polutants in our lifetime. But the responsible thing to do is get your car smogged despite the expense and inconvenience.

Quote:

There are so many things one could do which would benefit the atmosphere such as, not driving at all. Are you willing to pay that price while living in a society with fume belching busses and unfiltered refinery stacks? Are you willing to pay that price anywhere? Probably not.

I have a Tesla all electric car on order......0-60 in 4 seconds, 250 mile range on a charge, zero emissions, about a penny a mile to operate, but not practical for most Mexican roads. (Yes I do know that there is some polution created in the manufacture of the battery pack and components). This is a car that is way more expensive than I can afford, but no more expensive than some of the RV rigs I see driving Mexican roads. But I am going to put my money where my mouth is. Tesla is quite open about their business plan. They say their car is way overpriced for what you get ( (it should really sell for about half of retail). But they say they are using the excess profits to fund the R/D for a 4 door all electric family sedan priced similar to a Honda Civic or Toyota Celica but with twice the performance.

Just do the right thing about smogging your car. Every little bit helps. Thanks.

DENNIS - 12-9-2006 at 07:04 PM

OXXO ---
I commend you for your efforts as well as your conviction. Go for it.

What about those birds?

No, oxxo you just don't get it !

beercan - 12-9-2006 at 08:19 PM

When Arizona stared smoging autos ,I took my 1964 Chevy Impala SS with HP 300 hp 327, with out any smog gear and it registered so low that they ran me thru two more times . They couldn't believe that it didn't produce even the minimuns !!!
It was just tuned properly. Ditto the same for my brothers' 70 Duster--340 cu in 300 hp just a PCV valve and no emissions !!

Quote:

by oxxo boy
No you won't BillyBob. You have already posted that you tuned your friends car so that it would pass the smog test one day and then tune so itg that it will polute the next. You will do the same with your own vehicle. You just don't get it.

BajaBruno - 12-9-2006 at 09:29 PM

I have no intention of getting involved in the fight this thread seems to have devolved into, but I will try to answer the original question.

I searched the California Vehicle Code for all instances of "Baja" and there are none. Then, all instances of "Mexico," and there are only two: neither of them apply to the question of this thread.

I then searched all California codes and got nothing. It may be in a DMV or Bureau of Automotive Repair regulation (different than codes), but I found other material that seems to indicate that Mexico is not exempt. Anyway, I guess my point is that I looked and I can't help educate us! For whatever that is worth.

oxxo - 12-9-2006 at 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by beercan
When Arizona stared smoging autos ,I took my 1964 Chevy Impala SS with HP 300 hp 327, with out any smog gear and it registered so low that they ran me thru two more times . They couldn't believe that it didn't produce even the minimuns !!!
It was just tuned properly. Ditto the same for my brothers' 70 Duster--340 cu in 300 hp just a PCV valve and no emissions !!

I commend you for having your cars smogged.

Interesting your comment about the 327 smallblock. I have one with "double hump" high performance heads and get it smogged every two years as required by California and it passes everytime with very low emissions. It is a hobby and I keep it well tuned although I rarely drive it, maybe 50 or 60 miles a year. For some reason the 327 must be a very efficient engine.

Although my 327 engine will soon be "grandfathered" out of the smog requirements, I will continue to take it in every couple of years to have it tested if for no other reason than to test my tuning skills.

Gringo loco

Skipjack Joe - 12-10-2006 at 04:45 AM

You want all the vehicles in baja smogged? That's akin to going to Central Australia or Outer Mongolia and trying to convince their people to do the same. "Yes, but a car in Mongolia produces the same amount of emissions as one in Detroit". You would leave them scratching their heads.

I can just see you tryng to educate the citizens of Santa Rosalia with your 'fine example'. They would listen to you very politely. Once back with their own friends and family they wouldn't stop laughing about the gringo loco.

As a concerned citizen of global air quality you should worry about the big polluters. Baja's contribution is virtually zilch.

In my opinion people like yourself actually hurt the environmental movement. Rather than zealots it needs members who have common sense and are fair and balanced in dealing with the issues. And who are realistic. They have too many individuals who are on a missionary quest to remove the last carbon atom from the atmosphere. The environmentalists need fewer Felix Ungers in their midst.

[Edited on 12-10-2006 by Skipjack Joe]

oxxo - 12-10-2006 at 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
You want all the vehicles in baja smogged?

You sir, did not read my posts. You have extrapolated your prejudices into something I did not say.

This thread is about an individual who is trying to avoid their responsibilty to have their car smogged. It is an American plated car and subject to the California smog emission standards. The excuse is that it is too expensive (California does place a maximum limit on the amount of repairs) and too inconvenient to have it smogged.

I'm saying that if you have an American plated car get it smog tested, wherever you drive. It is the responsible thing to do for future generations - Americans and Mexicans. Every IMPROPERLY TUNED car emits emissions, even in Baja. It is umimportant what Mexican nationals do or don't do or what the law is in Mexico. Getting our cars smogged is the responsible thing to do for us Americans driving in Mexico. We smog our cars that we drive in the U.S., why not smog our U.S. plated cars that we drive in Baja?

mtgoat666 - 12-10-2006 at 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
because I don't intend to do anything the law doesn't require me to do.

Behaving ethically requires more than following the law. People who are ethical do what is right. People who are unethical only worried about themselves; hence, only look at the law, and ignore ethics, norms of polite behavior and the golden rule.

By the way, your belching car pollution hurts you and others in the desert, even the most remote desert. Next time you get stuck behind that slow moving car or truck and you are breathing that belching exhaust, think about the crap swirling thru your lungs.

All of you licensing your car in the US but leaving it in Mexico, you are probably breaking some Mexican law on vehicle import-registration. I find it disconcerting that many on this board profess to be great lovers of Mexico and feel they are part of the community, but feel that they can pick and choose which local laws to obey, and use this board to discuss ways to avoid mexican regulations Many of you complain about the illegal immigrants breaking the law in the US, but you come to this board to discuss how to break the law in Mexico. People who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

Goat Cheese

MrBillM - 12-10-2006 at 10:42 AM

Well, we've pretty well thrashed out our various positions on the whole pollution question with no surprises from either side. El Diablo's Cabron will continue to spew rhetoric with the hope of antagonizing me. No surprise there, either. Like everything else, no opinions will be changed on either side. I will continue to live each day according to MY OWN values with no consideration of Goatman's opinion. Cabron detests my opinions and I dismiss his (hers ?). He/she is appropriately named.

I'm done with this one. Nothing left to be said.

oxxo - 12-10-2006 at 10:53 AM

BillyBob, in the immortal words of Ronald Reagan, "uh.....there you go again."

When you can't come up with a reasonable defense, you resort to personal attacks. Let's debate the issues and not the personalities.

Billy Bob ?

MrBillM - 12-10-2006 at 11:18 AM

The only Billy Bob I know of is Billy Bob Thornton and he seems to have done OK so I guess being his namesake would be OK, too.

While I appreciate your constructive criticism, there are certain personalities I find so vacuous (especially Goats), that the temptation to demean their thinking and existence is unavoidable. Besides, what more is there to be said on this subject ? It seems that the issue and the positions are pretty well-defined. No minds will be changed. Of course, they never are changed here. Unlike the definitive questions and answers which deal with how to get somewhere, what is going on somewhere or how to deal with specific problems, etc, The rest of this is just recreation having no import other than distraction.

oxxo - 12-10-2006 at 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
I guess being his namesake would be OK, too.

It's just term of endearment

Quote:

there are certain personalities I find so vacuous (especially Goats), that the temptation to demean their thinking and existence is unavoidable.

I know, the Devil makes you do it, but resist the temptation. Show the stuff you're made of.

Quote:

No minds will be changed. Of course, they never are changed here.

Not so quick there BillyBob. Like you, I am a person of strong convictions but I always try to maintain an open mind. As a result of some discussions on this Board, I have had to re-think my position on some topics.

Quote:

Unlike the definitive questions and answers which deal with how to get somewhere, what is going on somewhere or how to deal with specific problems, etc, The rest of this is just recreation having no import other than distraction.

Not necessarily. I believe that Mexicans living or "moving" to the U.S. should follow Americans laws and Americans living and moving to Baja should follow Mexican laws. A society that picks and choses what laws to obey and what not is a society of anarchy. I believe discussions on this Board critical of Mexicans immigrating to the US in an illegal manner is understandable, but at the same time discussions on this Board about how Americans can circumvent both US and Mexican laws (i.e. avoiding your responsibility to smog your US plated car) is disengenious. If I were a Mexican national reading this Board I would have to wonder about the integrity of Americans. We should lead by example, not digress to the lowest common denominator.

bajalou - 12-10-2006 at 02:23 PM

The only point I try to make is that there are many places in Calif. and in many other states of the USofA that do NOT require periodic smog checks. In Calif it is only people living in certain areas that the CAB thinks should be checked. They do not think it is necessary or advisable for vehicles registered in Imperial and several other counties to spend money on the bi-annual checks. If they thought every vehicle in the state should have them, I'm sure they would be on a big campaign to get that done, as they they then fulfill their primary purpose - a bigger bureaucracy with more underlings so the salaries can be increased.

Attaboy Lou !

MrBillM - 12-10-2006 at 04:40 PM

You've convinced me Oxxo. I will do my best to resist those inner Demons and proffer my opinions and exceptions with logic and grace to the extent possible.

Although I have sincerely offered said opinions regarding this question of Conscientious behavior versus Legal requirements, I'm really one of the Good Guys since EVERY vehicle I have registered in the State of California (7) is in compliance with the Smog Laws pertaining to the County in which I am an established legal resident, including those which I maintain in Baja.

[Edited on 12-10-2006 by MrBillM]

oxxo - 12-10-2006 at 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajalou
The only point I try to make is that there are many places in Calif. and in many other states of the USofA that do NOT require periodic smog checks.

You have used a technique that magicians use called "misdirection." You change the subject and imply that is what I said.

This thread was started by someone inquiring about a county that DOES require smog testing. It has nothing to do with counties that don't require smog testing.

Quote:

In Calif it is only people living in certain areas that the CAB thinks should be checked. They do not think it is necessary or advisable for vehicles registered in Imperial and several other counties to spend money on the bi-annual checks.

As you are well aware most California counties do require smog testing and it won't be long until it is required in all counties.

Smog testing does reduce polutants. This from the CARB website:

Year 2000, California's population grows to 34 million. There are now 23.4 million registered vehicles in the state. Annual vehicle miles traveled (VMT) reaches 280 billion miles. The statewide average for vehicular nitrogen oxides emissions is 2.1 grams / mile; the average for hydrocarbons is 1.6 grams / mile. Cumulative California vehicle emissions for nitrogen oxides and hydrocarbons are about 1.2 million tons per year. This is 200,000 tons / year less than 1990 despite an increase in VMT of 40 billion miles per year.
Ozone: The South Coast Air Basin's maximum one-hour ozone concentration recorded is 0.18 parts per million. The area has no Stage 1 Smog Alerts (0.20 ppm ozone) this year, down from 42 Alerts in 1990. "

Good for the people and State of California!

Quote:

a bigger bureaucracy with more underlings so the salaries can be increased.

So I guess your point is that clean air is just not worth the buracracy? But you apparently do agree with me that if people just did the responsible thing and get their cars smogged voluntarily every couple fo years, we wouldn't need that big buracracy. They do have smog stations in Imperial County for those who want to do the right thing even though they aren't required to. Good for those folks in Imperial County who voluntarily smog their cars.

Tuning our cars to meet emission standards is worth the expense and inconvenience.

California Counties

bajaguy - 12-10-2006 at 09:03 PM

Thought I would throw my 2 cents worth in.......

Which counties require a smog inspection for the registration renewal?

Alameda Butte Colusa Contra Costa Fresno
Glenn Kern Kings Los Angeles Madera
Marin Merced Monterey Napa Nevada
Orange Sacramento San Benito San Francisco San Joaquin
San Luis Obispo San Mateo Santa Barbara Santa Clara Santa Cruz
Shasta Solano Stanislaus Sutter Tehama
Tulare Ventura Yolo Yuba

There are six counties that require smog certifications within certain Zip Codes only. These counties are:

El Dorado, Placer, Riverside, San Bernardino, San Diego, and Sonoma.

bajalou - 12-11-2006 at 07:46 AM

"hey do have smog stations in Imperial County for those who want to do the right thing even though they aren't required to. Good for those folks in Imperial County who voluntarily smog their cars."

They have smog stations in Imperial county so that vehicles can be checked when title is transfered or vehicle is brought in from another state. The certificate is required in both these cases.

And for oxxo and those that feel the same way, here's a site that lets you pay to get rid of that guilty feeling.

http://www.terrapass.com/

[Edited on 12-11-2006 by bajalou]

Smogless Electric Alternative ?

MrBillM - 12-11-2006 at 10:45 AM

Speaking of which, the reports in the news that I have read make the case that, with today's technology, Hybrids are a far more efficient alternative to Strictly Gasoline or Diesel vehicles. Three problems exist with Electric cars.

First is the current Battery Technology and the relative short life of those batteries. If Electric cars were a significant percentage of the total, battery production, disposal and recycling would present huge potential pollution problems.

Number two is the fact that it is questionable whether the Electric cars would improve the pollution problem or simply transfer it from the Urban areas to other areas where the Electricity would need to be produced.

Third is producing the Electricity itself. At present, during summer months especially, we are experiencing shortages of commercial power and the pace of bringing new production online is moving at a snail's pace. Any significant use of Electric cars would result in massive shortages unless something is done quickly to enhance that production.

oxxo - 12-11-2006 at 01:14 PM

Good, an intelligent discussion!

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
Speaking of which, the reports in the news that I have read make the case that, with today's technology, Hybrids are a far more efficient alternative to Strictly Gasoline or Diesel vehicles. Three problems exist with Electric cars.

First is the current Battery Technology and the relative short life of those batteries.

The folks at Tesla are predicting a battery life of 100K to 200K miles for their cars with current technology (it depends on how the car is used, climate, maintenance, etc.). As I recall they have a prorated warranty on the battery pack to 100K. They claim that technology is changing rapidly and battery life should be increased in the next year or two.

Quote:

If Electric cars were a significant percentage of the total, battery production, disposal and recycling would present huge potential pollution problems.

Valid point. But it is my understanding that worn out batteries are being recycled into new batteries and do not become part of the land fill. Again this technology will change with more R/D.

Quote:

Number two is the fact that it is questionable whether the Electric cars would improve the pollution problem or simply transfer it from the Urban areas to other areas where the Electricity would need to be produced.

Again a valid point. I guess it depends on what type of fuel you are using to produce electricity. Regardless, the amount of polution dispensed by the dirtiest power plant (Morro Bay for example) does not equal the polution caused by the hydrocarbon powered cars that it would replace.

Quote:

Third is producing the Electricity itself. At present, during summer months especially, we are experiencing shortages of commercial power and the pace of bringing new production online is moving at a snail's pace. Any significant use of Electric cars would result in massive shortages unless something is done quickly to enhance that production.

Bingo! This is the trickiest problem to solve. I don't have any solutions to that one.

There are currently a couple more problems with electric cars.

First, Tesla says that it will take a minimum of 4 hours to charge their battery pack depending on state of discharge. So every 250 miles you have to put the car away to charge the batteries. If the car is used for around town commuting, this is not a problem since you would merely charge it overnight. Length of charge becomes a problem for long commutes. Tesla admits that they need to have something that will charge a car in 10 minutes. That technology is not here yet. Costco is putting in charging stations at their stores in California. It is good marketing. Spend an hour in our store and we'll give you a free partial charge.

Second, I am concerned about the fall off in power as the battery discharges. For example, your flashlight starts getting dimmer as the batteries discharge. Will that happen to the Tesla car? Tesla has failed to answer that question for me and it is an important one.

Thanks Bill for asking good questions.

Bob and Susan - 12-11-2006 at 01:58 PM

if it's like an inverter it's set to discharge the batteries to a certin level then just shut off

it has transformers inside to keep the same performance while the batteries are discharging

oxxo - 12-11-2006 at 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob and Susan
if it's like an inverter it's set to discharge the batteries to a certin level then just shut off

it has transformers inside to keep the same performance while the batteries are discharging

Well that's about right. I just talked to a friend of mine this afternoon who is an auto dealer in the Portland area, Ron Tonkin. He is very familiar with the electric car concept. (He's trying to get the Tesla dealership for Oregon) He said the electric cars are set up to run at full speed until 80% discharged and then they shut down automatically, with some theoretical charge left. He said that there are some very exciting concepts that will be introduced in the next 12 to 24 months. One he is particularly excited about is still under wraps and wouldn't give me any details other than a 4 door family sedan, very plush, 220 mile range @ 80 mph cruising speed, under $40K in 2006 dollars, and probably Federal tax incentives.

Perhaps smogging cars will become a thing of the past if electric cars catch on. Even though I smog my cars, I don't like the expense and inconvenience either.

Yeah, how?

Dave - 12-11-2006 at 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by oxxo
The folks at Tesla are predicting a battery life of 100K to 200K miles for their cars with current technology (it depends on how the car is used, climate, maintenance, etc.). As I recall they have a prorated warranty on the battery pack to 100K. They claim that technology is changing rapidly and battery life should be increased in the next year or two.

At 100k that's 400 cycles (250m x 400= 100K). Where do they get off claiming "rapidly changing" battery technology? Companies say it's just around the corner. I don't see it.

Unless they reinvent the physics a battery will always be dinosaur technology., Now, if you wanna talk fuel cells... I'll listen.

[Edited on 12-12-2006 by Dave]

Expense ?

MrBillM - 12-11-2006 at 11:52 PM

Oxxo:

"Perhaps smogging cars will become a thing of the past if electric cars catch on. Even though I smog my cars, I don't like the expense and inconvenience either."
---------------------------------------------------

Not to be a nit-picker, but given the extravagant cost of present-day Electric car technology, the short range, time required for recharging and the dearth of charging facilities even in urban areas, I would think that the cost and inconvenience of an hour smogging a car once every two years at $45.00, pales in comparison.