BajaNomad - New Trump Baja Resort to Be Built on Mexico's Most Polluted Beach

New Trump Baja Resort to Be Built on Mexico's Most Polluted Beach

SUNDOG - 12-10-2006 at 10:16 AM

New Trump Baja Resort to Be Built on Mexico's Most Polluted Beach

New Trump Baja Resort to Be Built on Mexico's Most Polluted Beach December 8, 2006 Donald Trump's newest Beachfront Resort will be built just north of Baja's Punta Bandera, where 30 million gallons of sewage are discharged daily on the beach. Prospective buyers should be informed, so they can ask developers about health risks and sewage collection. This discharge is the same one that closes beaches in Imperial Beach and Coronado during the summer months, when swells take it north.

"We want to warn prospective buyers about the sewage crisis. All condo buyers in the Tijuana-Ensenada corridor should be worried that their new properties will be surrounded by raw sewage", says Serge Dedina, executive director of WiLDCOAST, a non-profit organization that protects costal ecosystems and wildlife.WiLDCOAST organized a protest with surfers today at a Trump Baja Sales Event in San Diego to ask prospective condo buyers to avoid real estate investments that front sewage polluted beaches. The sewage that will pollute Trump's condos also pollutes Baja Malibu, one of Baja's best beach breaks.

The rapid development of the Baja California coastline between Tijuana and Rosarito has outpaced the development of sewage collection and infrastructure. International developers have continued to develop the coast without contributing to necessary infrastructure improvements. The result is an environmental and health crisis as sewage and wastewater are dumped directly on beaches.

A new study, published in this month's issue of Applied and Environmental Microbiology by SDSU public health professor Rick Gersberg, shows that these coastal waters near the U.S.-Mexico border almost always harbor harmful viruses, in addition to the bacteria that are usually measured to detect health threats.

"It's important to recognize the presence of the viruses that actually pose the most significant public health risk, and viruses can be present long after the bacteria levels have subsided," said Gersberg, head of the Division of Occupational and Environmental Health in SDSU's Graduate School of Public Health.

HAV and enteroviruses were detected in border waters 90 percent of the time. Gersberg's study is the first quantitative assessment of the statistical relationship between levels of hepatitis A, enterovirus, E. coli and enterococci in marine waters.

Mexico is not hiding its sewage problems from developers. We found an honest assessment of the Rosarito -Punta Bandera - Tijuana area in the Mexican Government website.

According to Baja California's Secretary of the Environment, the sewage treatment at Punta Bandera was not designed to handle the industrial waste it currently receives from Tijuana, and that the "treated" effluent "fails to meet Mexican water quality standards for ocean discharges, exceeding limits for heavy metals, oils, suspended solids, and organic waste (sewage)."

The Secretary adds that this beach discharge "has a significant effect on the coastal environment and is the focus of international conflict." The analysis points out that, "wastewater and sewage being dumped directly on beaches, mostly affects Playas de Tijuana, Punta Bandera, and Rosarito".

"No surfer in their right mind should be surfing or buying condos anywhere near this area," said WiLDCOAST'S Dedina. "

For more information contact WiLDCOAST at www.wildcoast.net

vandenberg - 12-10-2006 at 11:54 AM

Growing up in The Hague ,Holland, next to one of Northern Europe's largest beach resorts, Scheveningen, we swam in the North Sea all summer. With the Rhine dumping pollutants from inland, no treatment plants and the city canals flushed out by the tidal action, I can not recall anyone ever getting sick, even with the seafoam a dirty brown from whatever. Maybe hardier breed or not subjected to the scare tactics in today's media ? :?:

jerry - 12-10-2006 at 12:00 PM

perhaps the protesters are messing up if trump builds it he also has enoff money to help fix
the problem for everyone
if he dont who will?
be carfull not to bite off the hands that feed you

Yes, "The Donald" has enough money to fix the problem

Dave - 12-10-2006 at 06:36 PM

Quote:

And years from now he will have even more money to fix the problem.

roundtuit - 12-10-2006 at 07:32 PM

Thank God Mother Nature is able to fix alot of man's screw ups. Filtration through Land and Water. I guess someone has to watch over us.
:no:

beautiful...!

djh - 12-11-2006 at 08:42 AM

There is some sick part of me that finds humor and an odd twist in that article...

Sub title could perhaps be . . . "The Donald and The Sewage"

OR....? ? ?

Go ahead give it a shot... it is irreverantly cathartic somehow.... be sure and shake the handle when you're done.

Paula - 12-11-2006 at 08:49 AM

good game, djh!!

How about... "When the $#!T Hits the Ceiling Fan"?

David K - 12-11-2006 at 08:50 AM

Quote:

Good point... the surfers or that outfit WiLDCOAST complain about sewage, but do nothing about it. Donald Trump (or some other 'nasty' corporation) wants to buy land and has the resources to fix the problem and 'WiLDCOAST complains still??? (why is the i not capitalized?)

bancoduo - 12-11-2006 at 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by vandenberg
Growing up in The Hague ,Holland, next to one of Northern Europe's largest beach resorts, Scheveningen, we swam in the North Sea all summer. With the Rhine dumping pollutants from inland, no treatment plants and the city canals flushed out by the tidal action, I can not recall anyone ever getting sick, even with the seafoam a dirty brown from whatever. Maybe hardier breed or not subjected to the scare tactics in today's media ? :?:

Why don't you buy one of Trumps condos,so you can go swimming with the TURDS again. :lol:

Don Alley - 12-11-2006 at 09:34 AM

If, as the article says, the sewage source results in summer closings of beaches at Imperial Beach and Coronado, seems to me that's legitimate grounds for complaint.

As for the Trump related developers having the resources to fix the problem, have these developers said they have the resources to fix a municipal sewage problem? What, some of you guys think Trump and the developers have bottomless supplies of money? That they should fix the city's sewage problem? You a bunch of liberals, or what? :lol:

DianaT - 12-11-2006 at 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Quote:

I wonder if Donald would have any profits left if he solved the sewage problem. First of all, all of the homes, permanent or not would need to be hooked up to a sewer system so maybe a sewage treatment plant would work.

Then again, in Mexicali they just paved over the New River so that they don't have to see the sewage that drains into the US---so maybe, Donald can move that sewage pipe. :yes:

When our beaches here in Imperial Beach are reported as closed, the beaches in Coronado often are reported as No Data Available---they don't like sewage in Coronado. :lol:

Maybe we can send Donald some of our cute little yellow warning signs ---- it is amazing how many people still go in the ocean with the signs up. :yes:

Diane

DianaT - 12-11-2006 at 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by grover
Why sweat Baja? We just found out the Navy has been discharging directly into San Diego Bay for years now.

An honest mistake made in good faith I'm sure.

Navy sewage flowed to bay since '04
Huge spill started when barracks built
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20061118/news_7m18se...

"...More than 10 million gallons of raw sewage flowed into San Diego Bay over the past two years from an award-winning military barracks because of an improperly connected pipe...

...workers hired by the San Diego-based building contractor Soltek Pacific connected a pipe carrying about 75 percent of the outflow from the barracks' toilets, sinks and showers to an unused[sic] storm drain that flows into Chollas Creek and then into the bay. The pipe should have been hooked to a sewage line running to a treatment plant.

Seabees from a Navy construction battalion discovered the error yesterday while working on an unrelated construction project. They quickly built a temporary line..."

MINUTES COUNT when it's been going on for years!

Couldn't believe that story when it came out---glad they acted quickly. :lol:

Well, at least living in Imperial Beach we have the reputation for having a problem and the lifeguards test the water all the time, so we know when it is bad. Strange that some areas of San Diego don't ever seem to have an ocean pollution problem.

Well, the little rain we had closed us up today---difficult to explain to the dogs why they can't go swimming today, especially because there are apt to be some humans out there.

Diane

Cypress - 12-11-2006 at 12:18 PM

They'll just extend the outlet pipe for a mile or two! No problem! The sewage will be dumped in deeper water and the ocean will eat it.

bancoduo - 12-11-2006 at 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
They'll just extend the outlet pipe for a mile or two! No problem! The sewage will be dumped in deeper water and the ocean will eat it.

If your talking about TJ there's no outlet pipe. It dumps from the land straight into the water. :barf:

Banco-------

Barry A. - 12-11-2006 at 12:33 PM

---there has got to be a pipe somewhere, doesn't there??

or is it just like a river flowing into the sea??

Or does it flow into the Tijuana River and thereby go into the USA before going into the sea???? :?:

bancoduo - 12-11-2006 at 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
---there has got to be a pipe somewhere, doesn't there??

or is it just like a river flowing into the sea??

Or does it flow into the Tijuana River and thereby go into the USA before going into the sea???? :?:

There is a pipe from the plant but it stops just before it gets to the ocean :barf:

I'm talking about the undersized plant close to Trumps new paradise. But on the north and northeast TJ runoffs, raw sewage runs into the river and into the US. :barf:

Also; the TJ plant can't handle the volume so there is a lot of overflow of raw stuff down the gully near Trumps place. TRUMP CREEK slogan could be a selling point :barf:

[Edited on 12-11-2006 by bancoduo]

DianaT - 12-11-2006 at 12:44 PM

Lots of untreated stuff flows into the Tijuana River and right straight into the US. 'Tis a nasty river, but if you want to see one that is worse, stop at the New River in Calexico---the one they paved over in Mexicali.

If you don't know where it is, just follow your nose.

Diane

Diane/Banco-----

Barry A. - 12-11-2006 at 12:57 PM

------and, unlike the situation in TJ where the "stuff" flows into the ocean, the "New River" flows into the USA and just keeps going north into the Salton Sea---------been doing this for many, many years. I remember back 20 years ago when I lived in El Centro that it was a "really big deal", and it WAS going to be taken care of "soon"-------apparently "taking care of it" meens hiding it from Mexican eyes?????

What a mess (litterally!!!!) :wow:

Way bigger issue than any that "the Donald" would want to tackle----and it is not his responsibility, as somebody already pointed out. If "taxes" don't cover this issue, I don't know what they do cover!!!!!!!!! :fire:

elgatoloco - 12-11-2006 at 01:14 PM

As someone who has spent the last 46 years enjoying the act of actually going in the ocean along the stretch of Baja between Rosarito and Ensenada the current building boom is depressing due to the fact that the infrastructure will not/is not/has not been able to handle the ever increasing amounts of human sewage. It is already a huge risk to your health to enter the ocean anywhere near the border area all the way thru Rosarito south and it is getting worse, not better, all the time.

I suspect that the vast majority of those purchasing the high rise condos along the coast are ONLY concerned with the 'ocean view' aspect, (many are being built in areas with no actual beach-only rocky shoreline) or as stated in the Tramp tower article, speculators with lots of $$$$$. The chit will hit the fan when the chit starts to hit the beach.

Of course the damage will be done by then.

WiLDCOAST is doing a service publicizing the fact that the coastline/beaches in that area is/are polluted and that the site is RIGHT across the toll road from an inefficient and overtaxed water treatment plant. You won’t see that info from the Donald.

Caveat emptor.

Cypress - 12-11-2006 at 01:24 PM

elgatoloco!!! Saying it like it is! :spingrin:

oldhippie - 12-11-2006 at 01:26 PM

The original post to this thread has the sentence

"A new study, published in this month's issue of Applied and Environmental Microbiology by SDSU public health professor Rick Gersberg, shows that these coastal waters near the U.S.-Mexico border almost always harbor harmful viruses, in addition to the bacteria that are usually measured to detect health threats."

That is just a plain old LIE. The SDSU professor found that:

"after rainfall, coastal waters near the U.S.-Mexico border almost always harbor harmful viruses, in addition to the bacteria that are usually measured to detect health threats."

Notice the "after rainfall" which is a whole lot different from "almost always" in San Diego.

He also found that:

"During the dry season of May through early October, six samples were collected at the Imperial Beach location. In all samples, the concentrations of the viruses were below the limit of detection. (Samples were not taken from the mouth of the Tijuana River during the dry period, because the flow of the Tijuana River at this time is negligible or even zero.)"

http://www.sdsuniverse.info/story.asp?id=48341

It's LIERS like this WilDCOAST org. that give environmentalists a bad name.

I live in Las Playas de Tijuana and there is runoff from the land into the ocean after rainfall in Tijuana, probably almost as much as there is in San Diego when it rains. I use to live there on Mission Bay and there are plenty of days after it rains that have the skull and crossbones signs on the beach.

The city of Tijuana is currently building a rather massive storm drain system in Las Playas now. I sort of hope the pipe runs North into the US and then East into George Bush's Texas ranch. But that's another story.

AND bancoduo stated:

"If your talking about TJ there's no outlet pipe. It dumps from the land straight into the water."

You make it sound like there's a constant flow of raw sewage onto the beach. Nope, that's not true. It's the rainy season when the runoff swamps the sewer systems that is the problem. Same as in almost all coastal metro areas. Santa Monica Bay in LA was a cesspool not too long ago. It wasn't until the Clean Water Act (around 1980) when the Federal Gov provided funds to cities to clean the water, that the US began to solve its pollution problems.

About the TJ sewer system:

There certainly is a problem, but there is certainly much work being done to solve the problem.

"The Mexican plant was completed in October 1991. The plant
consisted of a treatment plant, conveyance channel, pressure
line, and pumping plant. The second plant in San Diego, the South
Bay International Wastewater Treatment Plant (ITP), which will
cost approximately $400 million to build, was supposed to be
finished by 1995 but now the completion date is set for February
1997. (The completion date was changed in June 1995; the
previous completion date was December, 1996.) When it is
finished, it will serve the Tijuana-San Diego area; it will be
able to handle up to 25 million gallons per day. In addition, a
3.5 mile tunnel will be constructed to dispose of the treated
waste in the ocean, which is scheduled for completion in May
1998. (The completion date was changed in June 1995; the
previous completion date was February 1998.) When completed, the
treatment processing facilities will be able to process the 13
million gallons of untreated sewage that enters the Pacific ocean
everyday. However, the treatment plants will not be able to stop
sewage from overflowing into the Tijuana River Estuary when there
is an excessive discharge of sewage or when the river rises (see
Tijuana case).

http://www.american.edu/TED/TIJUANA.HTM

"Tijuana

The Mesa de Otay and Zona Centro portions of the International Border Planning Area are served by a system of collectors that transports sewage by gravity from the hills and mesas to main collectors in the Tijuana River Valley. From there, the sewage is transported to Pump Station 1, located at the low spot in Tijuana's collector system, which is adjacent to the International Wastewater Treatment Plant. There is also an interceptor located in the channelized Tijuana River that diverts renegade sewage to the pump station and collector system. Most of the Zona Centro of the planning area is served fully by sewage service, but coverage on Mesa de Otay is incomplete, particularly in the growing spontaneous settlements on the eastern portion of this area.

From Pump Station 1, the sewage is pumped up over a series of hills to the ridge above Playas de Tijuana where it enters an open canal and is transported some 3.1 miles (5 kilometers) south to the treatment plant at San Antonio de los Buenos. Another pump station lifts sewage from the area of Playas de Tijuana adjacent to the ocean to the conveyance canal to San Antonio de los Buenos. In the past, the system from Pump Station 1 to the treatment plant has been plagued by pump failures and breaks in the main conveyance pipe, resulting in diversion of sewage flows to the Tijuana River channel, to the emergency connector, or down the canyons that drain into the Tijuana River Valley in San Diego. In order to address these problems, the Parallel Conveyance System project will soon be completed. It was approved by the Border Environment Cooperation Commission and financed by Mexican government resources as well as loans and grants from the North American Development Bank. This project will upgrade the pumps and provide redundancy in the conveyance system to facilitate system upkeep without having to divert sewage flows from San Antonio de los Buenos. This project will also upgrade the treatment plant at San Antonio de los Buenos so that it can operate effectively at approximately 25 million gallons of sewage per day (1,095 liters per second).

As unsewered areas of Tijuana are hooked up to the system and as services are provided to newly urbanizing areas, the sewage treatment capacity of Tijuana will have to be expanded beyond that currently provided by the International Wastewater Treatment Plant and the San Antonio de los Buenos Treatment Plant. A number of alternatives are now under consideration, including building four new sewage treatment/water reclamation plants at different sites in urban Tijuana.

http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/~irsc/atlas/text/seweng.html

------------------------------------------------------

Sorry to rant about all the misinformation that is out there but growth and the assocaited problems are inevitable. Growth means people, people means people chit. It just makes me mad when the chit comes out of their mouths instead of their asses.

Cypress - 12-11-2006 at 01:39 PM

Evidently some folks have a sh-t tolerance higher than others. :biggrin:

, north or south of the MX/USA border. :yes:

Nobody should have to tolerate being sh-t on.

DianaT - 12-11-2006 at 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
------and, unlike the situation in TJ where the "stuff" flows into the ocean, the "New River" flows into the USA and just keeps going north into the Salton Sea---------been doing this for many, many years. I remember back 20 years ago when I lived in El Centro that it was a "really big deal", and it WAS going to be taken care of "soon"-------apparently "taking care of it" meens hiding it from Mexican eyes?????

What a mess (litterally!!!!) :wow:

Barry, would you believe that one of the proposals of The Calexico New River Committee has been to cover the New River and build on top of it----when I was teaching there, I had one of their videos. I used it in the classroom as an example of if you don't see it, it isn't a problem. :barf:

Also, the cross country coach at school had them training along the banks of the river---only sight hill in town. I tried to convince my students to where gas masks. :tumble:

When the border patrol sees immigrants in the river, they try to convince them to go back---if they have to apprehend them, they take the immigrant's clothes to a toxic waste dump.

Way back in the early 70s, my husband did his Master's Thesis about the Salton Sea area---or what we now call the Salton Sewer---and even then the New River held the distinction of being the most polluted river in the U.S.

But not to worry, when we left Calexico a few years ago, they were going to do something about the New River soon. :spingrin:

Oldhippie

Yea, they are trying to do more with the problems in Tijuana---some of them quite controversial, but we hope they just keep trying. Unfortunately, the Imperial Valley has never had the political clout to get anyone's "real" attention regarding the New River. Maybe as they grow, that will change----meanwhile, it is an incredible place.

Diane

bancoduo - 12-11-2006 at 01:48 PM

Old hippie takum to much ACID :lol:

bancoduo - 12-11-2006 at 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jdtrotter
Lots of untreated stuff flows into the Tijuana River and right straight into the US. 'Tis a nasty river, but if you want to see one that is worse, stop at the New River in Calexico---the one they paved over in Mexicali.

If you don't know where it is, just follow your nose.

Diane

We should start a "who's got the most polluted river contest." Maybe that guy who likes to swim in pollution can be the judge. :biggrin:

oldhippie - 12-11-2006 at 02:30 PM

"Old hippie takum to much ACID"

Far out man, watch out for the brown acid. I think I heard that announcement at Woodstock right after I dropped some.

Hey, you're the one that's in jail and walks on all fours 8^).

I just get mad when folks make statements that aren't true, especially when its to slam Mexico.

I walked a few miles this AM from the border fence south along the beach. It recently rained here and I counted 3 outfall pipes (6" diameter or so) that were trickling runoff onto the beach. Sure, it's nasty stuff. But, I'm an optimist and think/hope that all the development will also bring the money necessary to improve the infrastructure. There is cooperation between the Mexican and US governments on coastal water quality that I think will lead to progress. They should just raise San Diego/US taxes and build more stuff down here with the money.

The coastline between TJ and Ensenada is booming. It is a dangerous time for the environment. A real crapshoot, so to speak.

Oldhippie-----

Barry A. - 12-11-2006 at 02:50 PM

You say" "They should just raise San Diego/US taxes and build more stuff down here with the money."

YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING????? Tell me you are kidding????? :no:

oldhippie - 12-11-2006 at 03:18 PM

I'm not kidding, I think it's a fine idea. It would even out the worldwide wealth distribution within North America. Perhaps you prefer your tax dollars going to Baghdad??

claro

k1w1 - 12-11-2006 at 03:30 PM

oldhippie!! saying it like it is!! :tumble:

bancoduo - 12-11-2006 at 03:37 PM

My money is sufficating me. Somebody please help me!

Stickers - 12-11-2006 at 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by oldhippie
I'm not kidding, I think it's a fine idea. It would even out the worldwide wealth distribution within North America. Perhaps you prefer your tax dollars going to Baghdad??

A trillion dollars for Iraq??? Who cares if they have democracy. That amount of money could get the water so clean we could drink it (literally) and WE could all enjoy it, including Mr. Comb-over Trump.

I always liked hippies. :yes:

comitan - 12-11-2006 at 03:59 PM

A trillion dollars for Iraq??? No No I read this morning only 400 billion so far!!!!!!!!!!!

vandenberg - 12-11-2006 at 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bancoduo
My money is sufficating me. Somebody please help me!

What ???

No volunteers ?? :?:

Who Better?

kellychapman - 12-11-2006 at 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jerry
perhaps the protesters are messing up if trump builds it he also has enoff money to help fix
the problem for everyone
if he dont who will?
be carfull not to bite off the hands that feed you [/quote)

I am thrilled that Trump would even want to put up something in place that is polluted. He is not really the type to enjoy he name associated with anything but a success story...so bring it on Donald because he has what it takes (not just money) to make a big difference in the enviornment where he will invest millions in. I am thrilled!!!

Bunch of commies

Barry A. - 12-11-2006 at 05:54 PM

------I am dealing with a bunch of commies :lol:

Oh save us rich people, pretty please??? Give us your money.

It is a sin that you mentally and physically worked hard, took on a lot of "risk", and made a lot of money-----------now it is time to give it to the rest of the folks that put NOTHING at risk, and whine a lot. Yeah, right!!!!! You folks that feel this way amaze me.

I am out of this discussion. :fire:

Phil C - 12-11-2006 at 06:06 PM

Looks to me like the "Towers" will be above the"rocky (pristine) shoreline". Probably won't have beach? access, nice swimming pool and spa.Etc.Why go in that cold old ocean anyway?

bancoduo - 12-11-2006 at 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Phil C
Looks to me like the "Towers" will be above the"rocky (pristine) shoreline". Probably won't have beach? access, nice swimming pool and spa.Etc.Why go in that cold old ocean anyway?

rumble rumble tumble tumble. weeeeeeeeeeee!

DanO - 12-11-2006 at 06:31 PM

Not to worry. I'm sure all of these new buildings are being built in strict compliance with all the most up-to-date earthquake safety standards.

Paula - 12-11-2006 at 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
------I am dealing with a bunch of commies :lol:

Barry my friend, don't you know that most people in this world have nothing to put at risk to begin with, and have no time to whine because they are working six or seven days a week just to barely survive????

There are worse things a person can be than a commie :yes:

jerry - 12-11-2006 at 08:43 PM

yea don im about as liberal as geroge w him self i been called a few things but liberal sure as hell isnt one of them
all i said was perhaps he could (help fix the problem) and he might??
perhaps it will be in his intrest to??
he is a businessman and not stupid im sure hes aware of the condition the property hes going to build on and what it will take to get it done its not like it cant happen that a greedy developer work with a city for a win win outcome

Paula-----

Barry A. - 12-11-2006 at 08:46 PM

----I certainly cannot speak with any authority for those folks worldwide-----I only know about my immediate area (the USA). But I do know that ANYBODY in America can put enough money aside to participate in the American Dream----it just takes care, determination, and a "stick-to-it" phylosophy, and the rest just comes along, in this country.

My wife and I have put aside 30% of our earnings and invested it in the Market for the last 32 years, and now it has payed off big time. The most we EVER grossed was 40K at retirement 11 years ago, and we earned considerably less before that. Now the "investments" (all stocks & Mutual Funds) are rewarding us, and we have nothing to worry about for the rest of our lives, (and our kids lives) unless the whole nation collaspes, and then we will all be in the same boat and just do the best we can.

ANYBODY can do this----they just have to make the commitment, a little sacrifice, and it ain't that hard. We certainly have never felt deprived, but we did not have a lot of stuff either, but we sure had fun, and still are.

The American Dream is alive and well-----it just takes some long term thinking, and "sticking to it".

Listen to Susi Orman--------she tells you how to do it.

Viva Baja, and Viva the American Dream!!!!! and I want very little from my "government" other than to support our way of life, and to defend it.

Life is VERY good. :yes:

David K - 12-11-2006 at 08:53 PM

Good for you Barry!

I only wish I could have done that... Is there still enough time, I'm 49 with 2 more years before Sarah turns 18, never had extra to save raising two kids alone??? Hey, at least they know how to camp... we did a lot of that!

jerry - 12-11-2006 at 08:55 PM

good fortune is earned and planed for some live for today some live for tomorrow some never expect to get thier heads above the water and get exactly what they expect i agree berry anyone can if they put there mind to it

Barry A. - 12-11-2006 at 09:11 PM

Thanks, Jerry-------I really believe it is true.

David-----Of course you can do it-------at 49 you have a lot of time. I too went thru a divorce after 24 years, remarried 6 years later, and between me and my (now) wife have 4 kids-----we got all thru college, and they are all doing well now. Of course the kids all worked, and help to put themselves thru college----we never could have done it without their help.

It is not easy, but not that hard either. It is just a mind-set, I think. And I suppose there is some luck to it, also. I don't like to think so, but we have had some lucky breaks----picked some good stocks and Funds-------had kids with "drive" to succeed------and no disasters to contend with------but still we did stick to that 30% of income committed to the Market, and with luck and good planning your investments will double in value about every 6-7 years (that is "free" money) and you will probably make it. It sure beats just "spending" the money with NO return at all once the "stuff" you bought wears out and is gone.

As you can tell (I think), I really believe in this-----it kills me that more don't put it into practice. We have so much opportunity in this country----------so much!!!

Barry

David K - 12-11-2006 at 09:17 PM

Thanks Barry... I appreciate your insight into this. Sounds like we traveled similar paths in the past!

jerry - 12-11-2006 at 09:45 PM

your kids are a product of thier parents and you can pat your self on your back for themyou done good as a teacher
i made a plan when i was very young that i wasnt going to work all my life i bought my first house when i was 21 and i still own it and have never lived in it leveraged it and bought 2 more in the next 2 yrs got a divorce and all i had was 3 mortages not a dime or even a bed but the rent was making the payments with my saleryand i was working for a while then self employed it was tuff but i made it throu then bought another house and 2 and a half acers in the country and on and on well i just sold the 2 and a half acers that the city grew around for 28 years thier building 30 condos on it i still own my first house and several others best first investment is to buy your own home and uncle sam will help you make your payments with tax deductions

Exactly Jerry------------

Barry A. - 12-11-2006 at 09:50 PM

----------that is exactly what I am talking about. And it really feels good, doesn't it (looking back) :yes:

Tomas Tierra - 12-11-2006 at 10:24 PM

ok,

back to the stinking, green river that comes out in trumpijauna...is it fixable?? how big will the trumping station have to be? Maybe he could just dam the river...Log-o-Trump

Is there a surf spot at that river mouth??? :lol:

[Edited on 12-12-2006 by Tomas Tierra]

jerry - 12-11-2006 at 11:04 PM

berry and it feels good looking a head too

Paula - 12-11-2006 at 11:13 PM

Barry, Jerry and David,

You all did well and I applaud your hard work and success. We are doing just fine also.
Barry, I agree with you that anyone can do it. But that doesn't mean that everyone can, as there just isn't room at the top for us all. While those of us who make it can rightly credit our own hard work,for many of those who don't the blame doesn't fall so easily. And while the opportunities are great in th USA, globally many people are destined to a life of complete poverty, and there is no opportunity for them.
I don't think others are entitled to a piece of my pie necessarily, but I'm willing to contribute to the general well-being. It's not my place to tell you that you should think a I do.
So... please excuse the interruption, let's get back to the issue at hand. Sewage, isn't it? :biggrin:

jerry - 12-11-2006 at 11:26 PM

i met a man from che-ca-go said theres a lotta money in gaaa-bage

Think about-----

Barry A. - 12-12-2006 at 12:15 AM

----the amount of sewage from 1 million people???????

That is a problem that is not easily solved.

(I personally cannot get my mind around the problems of 3 billion people-------just too much. I pay more than my share of taxes, and pray that those handing out that money are wiser than me------I see no other choice)

(and I contribute to those "causes" that I understand, and have accountability)

Donald the Magnificent

MrBillM - 12-12-2006 at 12:12 PM

Those who place any great faith in Trump's Business Acumen must ignore the numerous Business Projects which have failed and ended in Bankruptcy. His record is not one of successes only.

Bill------I question your assertion of "numerous" failures????

Barry A. - 12-12-2006 at 01:16 PM

---yes he has had failures, and has even gone into bankruptsy, but he has had many more "successes" than failures----------as I said before, anybody that takes the risks that he takes is bound to have some failures. I don't think that this takes away much from his business (real estate) acumen (sp?).

elgatoloco - 12-12-2006 at 01:36 PM

Trump added his name on this project after a listless kickoff.

Bottom line is that the Mexican Government needs to stiffen and enforce better infrastructure regs-IMHO.

We shall see. :barf:

The Trump Card

MrBillM - 12-12-2006 at 02:10 PM

.............."by 1990, the effects of recession left him unable to meet loan payments. Although he shored up his businesses with additional loans and postponed interest payments, increasing debt brought Trump to business bankruptcy and the brink of personal bankruptcy. Banks and bond holders had lost hundreds of millions of dollars, but opted to restructure his debt to avoid risking losing lots more money in a really big court fight. Things were so bleak for Trump at this time that in the August 21, 1990 edition of the Jersey Record, columnist Mike Kelly wrote "If we still had debtors' prisons, Trump would be in the dungeon." Kelly added that "Donald Trump is a Third World Nation." Also in 1990, he co-produced the game show Trump Card in syndication".

By 1994, Trump had eliminated a large portion of his $900 million personal debt and reduced significantly his nearly $3.5 billion in business debt. While he was forced to relinquish the Trump Shuttle (which he had bought in 1989), he managed to retain Trump Tower in New York City and control of his three casinos in Atlantic City. Chase Manhattan Bank, (which lent Trump the money he needed to buy the West Side yards, his biggest Manhattan parcel) forced a sale of the parcel to Asian developers. According to former members of the Trump Organization, Trump did not retain any ownership of the site's real estate - the owners merely promised to give him about 30 percent of the profits once the site was completely developed or sold. Until that time, the owners wanted to keep Trump on to do what he did best: building things. They gave him a modest construction fee and a management fee to oversee the development. The people also allowed him to put his own name on the buildings that eventually rose on the yards because his well-known moniker allowed them to charge a premium for their condos.

In 1995, he combined his casino holdings into the publicly held Trump Hotels & Casino Resorts. Wall Street drove its stock above $35 in 1996, but by 1998 it had fallen into single digits as the company remained profitless and struggled to pay just the interest on its nearly $2 billion in debt. Under such financial pressure, the properties were unable to make the improvements necessary for keeping up with their flashier competitors.

In 1999, Donald's father Fred Trump, a multi-billion dollar real estate mogul, died. Fred Trump, the same man who cosigned Donald's first business loans, also happened to be the man who enabled Donald to escape from the massive financial morass he had created over the decades. Creditors who got stuck with the past losses were not as fortunate. Whereas Donald walked away from his empire unscathed, others were forced to take catastrophic writeoffs and losses even up to 2004, when Trump refused to continue to back his casino. Although Trump boasted he would build a bigger empire than his father, in the end, his father built an empire so large it could even accommodate Donald's most lavish personal losses.

Problems loomed for Trump's casino resorts. In a May 28, 2004 Wall Street Journal article, Trump said the spectre of bankruptcy bothered him "from a psychological standpoint," but added, "it really wouldn't matter that much." A number of his bondholders disagreed. In the same article, "Meyer Marvald, a Florida retiree who says he owns about $44,000 of the bonds," said Trump "has the Sword of Damocles hanging over our heads." On October 21, 2004, Trump Hotels & Casino Resorts announced a restructuring of its debt. The plan called for Trump's individual ownership to be reduced from 56 percent to 27 percent, with bondholders receiving stock in exchange for surrendering part of the debt. Since then, Trump Hotels has been forced to seek voluntary bankruptcy protection to stay afloat. As a result of his company filing for Chapter 11 Protection, in May of 2005 Trump relinquished his CEO position.

Bill------

Barry A. - 12-12-2006 at 02:28 PM

----and Trumps financial situation now is-------???????

(you seem to have left that part out)

I find it interesting that this "report"?, "article"? doesn't mention any of the Trump sucesses, only his troubles----a distinctly "Media" take on things-------sorta like the Media's reporting on Iraq. :lol:

I don't know----maybe he is a disaster, but that is not my impression-------but what do I know.

Stickers never got back to us on the mentioned "Colorado River project" disaster----------wonder what that was all about?

DUH ??

MrBillM - 12-12-2006 at 02:41 PM

Well, Pilgrim, It looks like we have a failure to communicate, here.

My original statement was to the effect that, before assuming that Trump's involvement guarantees success, it should be noted that he has had numerous failures in the past, including Bankruptcies which make him a little less than infallible.

WHY, TELL ME, WHY in response to your retort would I go into a statistical analysis of EVERY investment he's ever made ? I did not originally make the case that he hasn't seen success so it wasn't something I needed to address. I was simply detailing those failures in response to your minimizing them. THAT'S ALL, FOLKS.

His "Current" Financial situation means absolutely ZIP in terms of whether or not the venture will be a success. That same financial situation was pretty darn good BEFORE he got into trouble.

Bill-----

Barry A. - 12-12-2006 at 03:10 PM

I never assumed that YOU wrote the "piece", so of course I did not expect you PERSONALLY to go into detail-----I just wondered why the author didn't. Also, I never even inferred that Trump was infallible-----in fact quite the opposite----I was only trying to state that just because Trump was involved was not necessarily bad, but in fact could be good.

Anyway, your point is well taken, and as usual we agree much more than we disagree. And I appreciate that you showed us that "piece"------it does lessen my enthusiastic support for Trump------truth is always good, and I did not previously realize the extent of Trump's problems.

Barry

Triumphs and Failures

MrBillM - 12-12-2006 at 03:24 PM

The article I quoted from DID detail both the successes and failures separately. I simply "pasted" the problems since that was what I was referring to. I was only trying to say that he has made imprudent investments in the past along with some truly impressive successes.

Basically, we are in agreement.

Baja Resort Boom Artical

leadmoto - 12-12-2006 at 03:25 PM

There is a artical in 12/12/06 San Diego Daily Transcript about the Baja Resort Boom. Looks like construction on Trumps condos & hotel is scheduled to start in mid-January. 232 unit tower in the 1st phase to be completed in 18 months. Deposits on 188 suites have already been put down ($122,000,000 Total) ~65,000/a pop.

Also mentions the Salsipuedes development which is underway. I drove by on Saturday and saw BIG scary looking retaining walls on the steep slope just north of Ensenada.

Also Mentions Hussongs/Meridian developement of the Porto Hussongs Resort. Made for the rich and famous with there 100 Foot mega-yachts. $600,000 to $3,000,000 a pop.

People have money to burn. After making a charity run on Saturday I waiting for 3 hours in the border line. I am done with Baja. I may take my two wheeling acrossed the line though.

AMEN....

kellychapman - 12-12-2006 at 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
Thanks, Jerry-------I really believe it is true.

David-----Of course you can do it-------at 49 you have a lot of time. I too went thru a divorce after 24 years, remarried 6 years later, and between me and my (now) wife have 4 kids-----we got all thru college, and they are all doing well now. Of course the kids all worked, and help to put themselves thru college----we never could have done it without their help.

It is not easy, but not that hard either. It is just a mind-set, I think. And I suppose there is some luck to it, also. I don't like to think so, but we have had some lucky breaks----picked some good stocks and Funds-------had kids with "drive" to succeed------and no disasters to contend with------but still we did stick to that 30% of income committed to the Market, and with luck and good planning your investments will double in value about every 6-7 years (that is "free" money) and you will probably make it. It sure beats just "spending" the money with NO return at all once the "stuff" you bought wears out and is gone.

As you can tell (I think), I really believe in this-----it kills me that more don't put it into practice. We have so much opportunity in this country----------so much!!!

Barry

you are so right about opportunity if someone has the "mind-set" to do what you have done. I wish I had been so mind-set when it came to money....I could kick myself when I think about it....ok...I wont think about it...I am going to drink some tequilla instead and watch the beautiful sunset on the Sea of Cortez....
I toast to you Barry......here's to opportunity in the USA....I had many a great opportunities in my life and enjoyed each and every one of them....and yes I would do it differently if I had known then what I know now...... :lol:

I thought????

kellychapman - 12-12-2006 at 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
------I am dealing with a bunch of commies :lol:

we were talking about trump and his Baja Resort? I thought that maybe there was some hope that the future would smell alot sweeter where he chose to make such an enormous investment. Commies, Hippies....holy moly....what are you guys talking about????
I must have had too much acid myself cause I got lost on the last turn....

Sorry Kelly-----

Barry A. - 12-12-2006 at 04:02 PM

That tirade was triggered by a poster's statement to the effect that the USA should pay for improvement in infrastructure in Mexico around TJ------that just blew my mind, and I reacted without thinking (much).

Just disregard it, please, if possible.

Dave - 12-12-2006 at 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kellychapman
I thought that maybe there was some hope that the future would smell alot sweeter where he chose to make such an enormous investment.

I've been told that his investment was lending name to the project. Seems to have worked.

Careful Old Hippie....

kellychapman - 12-12-2006 at 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by oldhippie
"Old hippie takum to much ACID"

Far out man, watch out for the brown acid. I think I heard that announcement at Woodstock right after I dropped some.

Hey, you're the one that's in jail and walks on all fours 8^).

I just get mad when folks make statements that aren't true, especially when its to slam Mexico.

I walked a few miles this AM from the border fence south along the beach. It recently rained here and I counted 3 outfall pipes (6" diameter or so) that were trickling runoff onto the beach. Sure, it's nasty stuff. But, I'm an optimist and think/hope that all the development will also bring the money necessary to improve the infrastructure. There is cooperation between the Mexican and US governments on coastal water quality that I think will lead to progress. They should just raise San Diego/US taxes and build more stuff down here with the money.

The coastline between TJ and Ensenada is booming. It is a dangerous time for the environment. A real crapshoot, so to speak.

careful where step around here..... :lol:

you could end up with something on your shoe.....or you could stir up a bunch of sh.t and forget the real purpose of this discussion....no sense slinging sh.t at eachother....we have enough of it already that needs to be cleaned up.
It looks like you have done alot of homework and spent a great deal of energy, thought and banging away on the keyboard to make a statement.....I will look at a few of the websites you mentioned to understand more......
Most of us nomads love Mexico....or why would we be spending our time on this forum...so take it easy and do not let them see where you tie up your goat....lol... :bounce:

you may be an old hippie..but you are a newbie in this neighborhood and it takes some time to adjust to all the different "characters" around here. So, take it easy man...have some tequilla....

kellychapman - 12-12-2006 at 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
That tirade was triggered by a poster's statement to the effect that the USA should pay for improvement in infrastructure in Mexico around TJ------that just blew my mind, and I reacted without thinking (much).

Just disregard it, please, if possible.

no way jose'....I totally understand as I too thought that was a remark would trigger the same reaction. It is a shame that everyone thinks the USA should pay for everything. Hard to believe the way people think everything can be taken care of...by US tax dollars.... :no:

I give up....

Tomas Tierra - 12-13-2006 at 12:15 AM

"but you are a newbie in this hood"

3 months aint that long either, but your a busy poster KC

Dump Towers

djh - 12-13-2006 at 08:08 AM

"The Donald" could take on a whole new meaning....

"May I use your Donald?"

"Please excuse me, I need to go to the Donald"

"That 8th grader stuck my head in The Donald and gave me a swirlie"

go ahead..... I just dare ya ! !

But I am now....

kellychapman - 12-14-2006 at 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tomas Tierra
"but you are a newbie in this hood"

3 months aint that long either, but your a busy poster KC

a nomad.....3 months is a very long time when you get hooked on this forum. I was bored before I happened to find this site.....and yes I am a busy poster as it keeps me busy while stuck inside with Margy....I guess I ahould get a real job......this forum just keeps me busy giving my opinon on a varity of topics...... :lol:

which I always have.....nothing more then opinions.....