BajaNomad

Winner of this years BK1

tripledigitken - 12-10-2006 at 07:26 PM

We went to the Long Beach Motorcycle Show today. Here is the winning Bike and overall winner.

[Edited on 12-11-2006 by tripledigitken]

baja-1000-2006-winner.jpg - 33kB

capt. mike - 12-11-2006 at 05:29 AM

Ken - next baja moto ride is?? spring or fall?
i need notice to rent my ride! work i'll just BLOW OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you south at all Xmas-NYs?

Geronimo - 12-11-2006 at 08:10 AM

If only the 1X bike took the same course as the rest of the field then they would have something to brag about.

David K - 12-11-2006 at 08:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geronimo
If only the 1X bike took the same course as the rest of the field then they would have something to brag about.


My goodness... do you have something to share???

At El Crucero, Race Mile 328... #1x zoomed by us at 12:02pm and it was amazing how much of a lead he already had on the second bike (6x)... Close to an hour I think!

rts551 - 12-11-2006 at 08:32 AM

San Ignacio the lead was even bigger (2 hours). Heard from a chase vehicle that 1X skirted Laguna Diablo. Didn't look like it on the video and was not confirmed by GPS tracking.

TMW - 12-11-2006 at 08:38 AM

With the GPS black boxes, everyone must have, I don't think anyone is going to take a different course route. If you know they did SCORE should be told. It is my understanding that all the leaders boxes are checked after the race. These boxes are used for checking speed on the hwy sections and staying on course. I don't think SCORE wants any more bad publicity like they got in Dust to Glory with Campbell running on the beach.

bajalou - 12-11-2006 at 08:48 AM

I was at the corner where the course turned south on Old Puerticitos Road and a spectator (who had a couple of relatives racing) said the first bike came down OP road, not off the road to the west as all the others. Not a big cut but every second counts.

I wondered then what the Logger would show and what would be said about it.

[Edited on 12-11-2006 by bajalou]

CShirk - 12-11-2006 at 10:14 AM

That's why guys prerun. I think what Campbell did in DTG was totally acceptable. Obviously, the racers should not take a road that completely bypasses a section (that is why there are secret checkpoints). But, riding on the beach or taking a smoother side road, or going through a better arroyo crossing.... is why people prerun. SO they can find the fastest, safest, better route.

However, it is kinda strange how the 1x bike had such a huge lead this year. I was in a heli this year filming the race and they were hauling butt, but so were the guys right behind them... I only saw the bikes for the first hundred miles though.

Geronimo - 12-11-2006 at 01:04 PM

Honda puts the trackers on the motor, everyone else get them on the rear fender, Why? there is a Well Documented case out of San Felipe, 1x never went by the pit, witnessed by hundreds. It does not acount for the huge lead, only a couple of minutes. I am sure they were lost, maybe a lack of prerunning. If you believe that Honda goes by the same rules as everyone else you haven't been paying attention. see this link for some facts

http://tonyt.prodesertracing.com/?p=194

CShirk - 12-11-2006 at 01:53 PM

I doubt 1x had a lack of pre-running. And I doubt even more that they were lost, especially around S.F.

[Edited on 12-11-2006 by CShirk]

bajalou - 12-11-2006 at 02:03 PM

I would suspect that while pre-running one might find some shortcuts. In the days when the object was just to get from one point to another in the least time, lots of possibilities existed for getting around. Now that you're supposed to be within XX feet from the market course, these shortcuts could cause problems.

TMW - 12-11-2006 at 03:57 PM

The logger is overlayed on the actual course to check. During prerunning if you find a line you want to take you can ask Sal or Paul and if they say OK then you can use it. Usually, Sal will bring this up at the riders meeting. The SCORE rules say you must stay within 50 feet of the course centerline. That is what a lot of people complained about when Campbell took the beach route in D to G. I had a couple of racers say that Sal said in the riders meeting it was OK. Maybe he did or didn't I wasn't there. Childress (1X) got DG'd in the SF250 this year for cutting the course. He was caught by Paul Fish in a helo. If I were a racer (or even saw) and knew of a bike or car that cut the course by a helpful margin I would complain. Honda has a history of doing that and other things, like switching bikes.

As to 1X having such a big lead. I'm not surprised at all. Outside of 1X and 6X who else was a fast team. There weren't any. Outside of Honda the fast desert racers won't race Baja. They don't want to deal with the crap that's put in their way at the speeds they need to run to win. They're at BITD and other U.S. races. BITD pulled out of Baja for the same reason. With Kawasaki not racing and now KTM not racing there just ain't any fast teams to challenge Honda. And if a fast guy comes along like Childess and mouse did they get signed by Honda. Andy Grider on KTM was a hope but he's now in a car. Was Robbies Co-pilot at the 1000.

TacoFeliz - 12-11-2006 at 04:50 PM

When 1x went by us at RM95 his front wheel was only touching the ground enough to keep him headed the right direction. Otherwise, he was on the throttle hard every second. Even that early he had a five or six minute lead on 6x. Was also covered by several helos with camera crews who would have probably noticed any off-course deviation since they were only about 100 feet overhead at all times...

Minnow - 12-11-2006 at 05:13 PM

TW, you may be right in your comments, but still. You tell me what it take to accomplish this.

http://www.baja.net/fud/index.php?t=msg&th=10330&sta...

Gadget - 12-11-2006 at 06:22 PM

Now thats some interesting info. Especially TTs blog. Can't tell where exactly that is the tracker shows him off course, but if he came down all that nice new pavement south of town, which as you all know was slower than the dirt before it was repaved, that would have made a big lead!!

Geronimo - 12-11-2006 at 06:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by CShirk
I doubt 1x had a lack of pre-running. And I doubt even more that they were lost, especially around S.F.

[Edited on 12-11-2006 by CShirk]


Lost comment was said with extreme sarcasm. I know that the 1X team get paid to pre-run and spends a lot of time doing it. The fact is that reliable people saw THIS incident. One is a Honda dealer, angry that HIS money is being used to fund this effort. The second is a SF resident that was just inducted into the Off-road Hall of Fame in Reno this year. Helicopters, witnesses, trackers, boy scouts with bibles, site what ever you want. Dust to Glory had some awesome footage of them cheating, It happened. I personally think that motorcycles are kind of like paint drying and do not care what they do. I do care that it is keeping a TT or 1 car from a true overall win.

I will not comment on any other deviation only this one well documented case. If you were in Sal's position and new that Honda was paying to be featured on network TV, That they were the only factory effort left, and that they are idolized by much of the fan base, would you DQ them for doing whatever it takes to stay on top?

Flame away

[Edited on 12-12-2006 by Geronimo]

[Edited on 12-12-2006 by Geronimo]

Minnow - 12-11-2006 at 06:29 PM

They did in this years 250. 1x bike dq'd. Thats how DP snuck into second place. How that fit into your theory Geronimo?:lol: Dude, your rants are starting to sound like sour grapes. Rally logger, competition review board. Any of this mean anything to you?

Bruce R Leech - 12-11-2006 at 06:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geronimo
Quote:
Originally posted by CShirk
I doubt 1x had a lack of pre-running. And I doubt even more that they were lost, especially around S.F.

[Edited on 12-11-2006 by CShirk]


Lost comment was said with extreme sarcasm. I know that the 1X team get paid to pre-run and spends a lot of time doing it. The fact is that reliable people saw THIS incident. One is a Honda dealer, angry that HIS money is being used to fund this effort. The second is a SF resident that was just inducted into the Off-road Hall of Fame in Reno this year. Helicopters, witnesses, trackers, boy scouts with bibles, site what ever you want. Dust to Glory had some awesome footage of them cheating, It happened. I personally think that motorcycles are kind of like paint drying and do not care what they do. I do care that it is keeping a TT or 1 car from a true overall win.

I will not comment on any other deviation only this one well documented case. If you were in Sal's position and new that Honda was paying to be featured on network TV, That they were the only factory effort left, and that they are idolized by much of the fan base, would you DQ them for doing whatever it takes to stay on top?

Flame away

[Edited on 12-12-2006 by Geronimo]


One is a Honda dealer, and a SF resident that . Helicopters, boy scouts with bibles. are these the things that give someone integrity or what:lol:

TMW - 12-11-2006 at 07:37 PM

"[You tell me what it take to accomplish this.]"


Minnow, it takes a lot of hard work, teamwork, money, sponsors, prerunning, a really good bike and dedication. I think they did a great job. But if 1X had not been DQ'd at San Felipe they would have finished 3rd in points. The SCORE series for MC's is only 3 races. They are tough especially with the booby traps and people going forward, backwards and sideways on the course and in the longer races the 4 wheelers catching you. I'm sure any of those guys would kick my butt on a MC, but they are not in the same league as the Honda factory riders. They finished 7th in the 1000 with an average 16mph behind 1X and 10mph average behind 6X. Unless the Honda factory teams get DQ'd or something goes really wrong they'll be a 3rd place team at best. I know what it takes to win a SCORE class championship and to win races, I sponsored such a team, TnT Racing 1992-1995. 94 & 95 class 21 champs. In the SF 250 winner & 3rd overall bike 94 & 95. 500 winner 93 & 95 (2nd overall bike in 95). 1000 class winner 93 & 95 (5th overall bike to La Paz). It wasn't cheap and it wasn't easy. They went on for a Kawasaki team ride before splitting and I moved to TX.

Geronimo - 12-11-2006 at 07:55 PM

Minnow

1x did get DQ'ed at San Felipe, hardly an important race for there marketing campaign. They claimed it was a slap on the wrist for the DtoG deal. Sour Grapes? I am a limited racer, the only thing I race is checkpoint closing times, and most teams I race with consider a finish a win. I was raised to call a cheater a cheater. Yes, I know all about CRB. I believe they convened in La Paz after the race, anyone that wanted to could have went from SF to La Paz and spoke up, and no one did. I am sure that the technology that goes into the rally tracker is 100% reliable as is the human element that is involved.

Gadget

It was actually the first part of Old Purtotsitos Road right out of SF. The course does a z thing and the road goes straight. There are some sandy whoops in there around the San Felipe water Pila's. Probably only saved five minutes, hardly worth the effort IMHO.

Bruce

Are you a journalist? That kind of quote editing could get you a job in no time at a major newspaper.

If Honda is listening and finds my comments a threat to there dominance in Baja I am for Sale. I will become a Honda cheer leader if a 2007 Rincon is delivered to Salome Where she Danced Arizona, if they want to whack me please disregard.

Disclaimer (the above is a joke, for those of you born without a sense of humor or are unwilling to use it on the internet.)

elchinero - 12-12-2006 at 08:22 AM

Here are the southern San Felipe
SCORE route (Green)
1X OPR bypass route (red)

1x Map Link

elchinero - 12-12-2006 at 08:41 AM

http://tonyt.prodesertracing.com/?p=194

Minnow - 12-12-2006 at 10:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by TW
"[You tell me what it take to accomplish this.]"


Minnow, it takes a lot of hard work, teamwork, money, sponsors, prerunning, a really good bike and dedication. I think they did a great job. But if 1X had not been DQ'd at San Felipe they would have finished 3rd in points. The SCORE series for MC's is only 3 races. They are tough especially with the booby traps and people going forward, backwards and sideways on the course and in the longer races the 4 wheelers catching you. I'm sure any of those guys would kick my butt on a MC, but they are not in the same league as the Honda factory riders. They finished 7th in the 1000 with an average 16mph behind 1X and 10mph average behind 6X. Unless the Honda factory teams get DQ'd or something goes really wrong they'll be a 3rd place team at best. I know what it takes to win a SCORE class championship and to win races, I sponsored such a team, TnT Racing 1992-1995. 94 & 95 class 21 champs. In the SF 250 winner & 3rd overall bike 94 & 95. 500 winner 93 & 95 (2nd overall bike in 95). 1000 class winner 93 & 95 (5th overall bike to La Paz). It wasn't cheap and it wasn't easy. They went on for a Kawasaki team ride before splitting and I moved to TX.


DP was the class 21 overall champ in 2003 and 2004. They won plenty of races. Seventh in this years 1000 was a tough break. However the problems they overcame were tremendous. Just to finish was a win. That happened to be the first race they used honda pits. It seems the premier service is reserved for the factory riders. If Seve would have put his legions of DP VOLUNTIERS out on the course, I believe they would have done better.:lol: Live and learn, and that is racing. Regardless, they took second overall in open pro, I didn't see that on your list above.

Minnow - 12-12-2006 at 10:11 AM

Tony T, if that is correct, which it looks to be. 1x should have been DQ'ed again.

jimqpublic - 12-12-2006 at 10:47 AM

I think Bruce Ogilvie's goal is not specifically for Honda's factory team to win the 2 wheel class. It's for them (or at least a Honda) to take the overall lead. Otherwise he would have them slow down to a safer pace once they were well ahead of the 2 wheel competition.

There are a lot of bragging rights to beating million dollar trucks with a bike that can be replicated for $20k.

elchinero - 12-12-2006 at 10:53 AM

That "1X" route is 1143% correct and validated by MANY people on-site ...
chasers
pitters
Honda-dealership people

Saw the Honda helo over "first bike"
"1x" never passed the actual pit
persona on Pila road watched 1x go straight to OPR!

TMW - 12-12-2006 at 02:21 PM

"[they took second overall in open pro, I didn't see that on your list above.]"

They took second in points which is very good for the series, but not second in any of the SCORE races. TnT took a second overall bike in the 1995 Baja 500 on a KX250. I didn't see that on your list.

Minnow - 12-12-2006 at 04:10 PM

I don't have a list. I am just a supporter. I find it hard to believe that anyone with your credentials would go out of their way to try and discredit another race teams efforts. Most of the people I have met in the sport are way beyond that. The facts are the facts, I don't need defend them. And we are talking about 2006, not 1996.

Seems to me you still have the racing bug. Why don't you put another team together and go out and make some recent history. :lol::lol::lol:

elchinero - 12-12-2006 at 04:30 PM

<< I find it hard to believe that anyone with your credentials would go out of their way to try and discredit another race teams efforts. >>

To who(m) is this directed (at).

BajaTim - 12-12-2006 at 04:37 PM

OK What am I missing here? How did TW discredit DP Racing? DP had dedication, good support, good machinery, good everything that it takes to win. DP did a good job....
So why come down on a guy who has spent more time racing and riding in Baja than most ever will?

TMW - 12-12-2006 at 05:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Minnow
I find it hard to believe that anyone with your credentials would go out of their way to try and discredit another race teams efforts. :


Minnow, I apologize to you and your team. I certainly don't want to diminish what the team did. They should be (and I do) congratulate them for it and for your help in making it happen. I wish them further success in the years to come.

Tom Wimberly

Minnow - 12-12-2006 at 05:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TW
"[You tell me what it take to accomplish this.]"


if 1X had not been DQ'd at San Felipe they would have finished 3rd in points. The SCORE series for . They finished 7th in the 1000 with an average 16mph behind 1X and 10mph average behind 6X. Unless the Honda factory teams get DQ'd or something goes really wrong they'll be a 3rd place team at best. I know what it takes to win a SCORE class championship and to win races, I sponsored such a team, TnT Racing 1992-1995. 94 & 95 class 21 champs. In the SF 250 winner & 3rd overall bike 94 & 95. 500 winner 93 & 95 (2nd overall bike in 95). 1000 class winner 93 & 95 (5th overall bike to La Paz). It wasn't cheap and it wasn't easy. They went on for a Kawasaki team ride before splitting and I moved to TX.


Maybe I should have interpreted these comments a praise.:lol:

I have read most of TW's posts, and they are positive, so no real bone to pick. However, the quote speaks for itself. I am sure you are good guys and you definately know your stuff. I am just a fan, and an occasional volunteer supporter.

Maybe my post was worded too harshly.



[Edited on 13-12-2006 by Minnow]