BajaNomad - beware of getting stung by a matavenado

beware of getting stung by a matavenado

shari - 1-2-2007 at 02:34 PM

A couple days ago, my sister in law got stung by a matavenado which is a very small wasp, kind of reddish brown in color and about an inch and a half long...almost looks like a big flying ant. These critters kill deer and she was in very rough shape for a couple days but luckily she got to the hospital right after she was stung where they gave her antivenom and some other injections and had her on IV all day. It was very painful and dangerous. she thought it was a black widow spider bite as it was very painful and swelled up and was tingly but they found the wasp that stung her. After only a few minutes she had trouble breathing as she was stung in a vein on her left arm. So if you get stung, make sure you get to a hospital immediately...don't be macho!

Cypress - 1-2-2007 at 02:42 PM

Jeez!! :no:

That's one bad bug. :wow:

Hope she makes a full recovery!

Wish I knew what they looked like in order to avoid 'em. :?:

Cypress - 1-2-2007 at 02:55 PM

Thanks for the info Summanus!

Eight legs! It isn't a wasp.

Bajagypsy - 1-2-2007 at 02:57 PM

Oh my hope all is well with your sister in law, what a horrid thing to have happen.

Osprey - 1-2-2007 at 03:05 PM

Shari, could be a wasp, Avispa, a hornet, vitachi but most likely a Tarantula Hawk. Ask some of you Mexican neighbors to make you up some Guaco in a jar with tequila, mezcal or alcohol (the drinking kind). There's always a jar under our sink and it has saved us pain and trouble on every insect bite. Some wasps down here are deadly -- on one bite I almost passed out, the next one was a breeze cause by then I had some Guaco.

pargo - 1-2-2007 at 03:06 PM

Yeah, I know the wasp Shari speaks of. I could be wrong but that wasp is not the Matavenado. It is the black tarantula hawk or something along that line. It is quite aggressive and produces a loud buzz when in flight which makes it even more terrifying. They,re big and probably have killed a dear(venado) or two.The Matavenado I know of is not a wasp at all. It is a relative of the scorpion non venemous and quite harmless to humans. Known here in the U.S. as whipscorpion.

www.desertmuseum.org

Natalie Ann - 1-2-2007 at 03:16 PM

matavenado

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=17467#pid1507...

and also:
http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=3608#pid26802

[Edited on 1-2-2007 by Natalie Ann]

Dave - 1-2-2007 at 03:29 PM

Shari, has she ever had the same symptoms from a bee or wasp sting? Sounds like a classic anaphylactic reaction. If so, it can happen again and she needs to carry an adrenalin syringe or inhaler.

pargo - 1-2-2007 at 03:36 PM

Yes Summanus, that is the critter that chased me!

[Edited on 1-2-2007 by pargo]

Cypress - 1-2-2007 at 03:37 PM

Black Tarantula Hawks must be real potent!

Some folks are more sensitive than others to insect bites. :no:

FARASHA - 1-3-2007 at 10:55 AM

shari - DAVE is absolutly right, I think the quite serious reaction is pointing out a allergic reaction - can be found out by a simple bloodtest. Better to have antihistamine stuff at hand as well for any case! Beside Adrenaline! Also a Oxygen Kit can be good, to have available.

Tarantula hawks and their admirers

zforbes - 1-3-2007 at 04:17 PM

I observed some wasps several years ago near Calle Elias that elgatoloco identified for me when I asked Nomads for help. Here is the story that accompanied his identification. (And now I know why I should NOT have been going barefoot on the patio where I saw the wasp...where there are tarantula hawks, there are also tarantulas...to step on!)

Hemipepsis spp. (from elgatoloco)
When I was a kid there would be years in our campo when the tarantula population would explode. At night we would put a kerosene lamp in the road in front of the house and come back a bit later and it would be surrounded by 5-6-7-8-10 tarantulas. We would put them on a string and walk them thru camp the next day to impress (scare) the girly girls. In the next months the population of a BIG shiny black flying bug with bright orange/red wings would also explode. At the time I had no idea that the two events were connected. The Tarantula Hawks would slowly and what seemed awkwardly fly into a group of people casually sitting on the porch enjoying the ocean view and everyone would leap out of there chairs and vacate the area. I was fascinated by these bugs. One particularly bountiful year I collected 10-12 and made a hanging mobile out of them to compete in the 'driftwood' mobile contest my mother had organized for the kids in the campo. My mom was the unofficial contest director, she had a sand castle building contest every summer and a seashell decorating contest and a beach glass mosaic contest and kite flying contest and more, I think I got DQ'd from the contest because I did not use driftwood but I freaked out a few of the girlie girls and I'm sure one was impressed enough that five years later she was somewhat eager to go with me on that moonless night to the bluff outside camp to watch the submarine races and the next thing you know.........oops I digress.

So the deal with the Tarantula Hawk is that it has one of the most interesting methods of reproducing. When it is ready to lay its eggs it finds a tarantula and stings it, paralyzing it, drags it into its burrow and lays the eggs, the larvae hatch and eat the tarantula while it's alive! COOL!

The deal is no Tarantulas, no Tarantula Hawks. So next time you come across a tarantula in Baja let it go on its way so it may soon become a nice meal for some larvae!

You can read all about the Tarantula Hawk and see photos by going to google and typing in Tarantula Wasp

Zoe, was this the insect you saw when you attended that wedding??

Have Fun!

Hook - 1-3-2007 at 04:49 PM

That form of reproduction complete with the first meal is rather common in many types of wasps. One of the most amazing evolutionary adaptation there is, IMO.

Ranging over the desert southwest for many years (BTW, they also occur in coastal scrubland and savannah areas of SoCal), I have seen many a tarantula hawk as I was told they were called. But we never really believed they attacked tarantulas UNTIL one day when we were driving around just outside of Death Valley and came across a T-hawk dragging a tarantula along on the ground at a fairly good clip, really. We never doubted the name after that.

Easily the scariest flying insect in these parts, including those mondo moths that look like small mice with wings. Always saw lots of those in the summer at Jack Murphy in the lights.

These things are in a class by themselves.

[Edited on 1-3-2007 by Hook]

Halboo - 1-3-2007 at 05:25 PM

Several years ago I read an article in Outside magazine written by some crazy scientist type who had allowed himself to be bitten or stung by just about all the scary/toxic bugs and snakes of North America.
His opinion was the pain of the sting from a Tarantula Hawk was number two on the list right behind the bite of a rattlesnake.

Now THAT'S gotta hurt.

Bad @ss Bugs...

bajabum - 1-3-2007 at 05:27 PM

I see them all over the place in Northern and middle baja buzzing around looking for whatever (tarantulas I guess). I have even seen them in San Diego. Several years ago I was stung on the tip of my index finger by one and I gotta tell ya... This thing put me out of commision in seconds and the pain kept me out of commision and rockin back and forth on the floor for hours holding my finger. The tip of my finger swelled up to about triple its regular size and turned blue, looked like a cartoon finger. I have stiched myself up a few times, had my day with fire coral, been stung by sting rays and even biten by a black widow spider...nothing compared to that demon!

FARASHA - 1-3-2007 at 05:37 PM

bajabum - you are one Lucky Guy. :biggrin:

gosh - wouldn't want to walk in your shoes!

Frank - 1-3-2007 at 05:38 PM

My son and I fought this one all day in the heat of the East Cape @ Verdugos. Only the cheering from the bar area kept us going.......

He now lives in a foodsaver bag on the wall of memories, Baja section.

bajabum - 1-3-2007 at 06:14 PM

At least I was able to kill the little bugger before it drug me off to its nest to feed to its young!

Capt. George - 1-3-2007 at 06:27 PM

Deborah got hit with a Black Widow (male) Black Widower?

Bad news! Three days pain, with pain meds. pain traveled, foot, hand, arm, leg etc. etc. not nice.

watch out for those buggers.

zforbes - 1-4-2007 at 10:15 AM

Thanks to everyone who has given information. This is one of the best things about Nomads. There is so much practical advice and in depth knowledge available and freely offered. The critters are fascinating, and so are Nomads!

pargo - 1-4-2007 at 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by pargo
Yes Summanus, that is the critter that chased me!

It... chased you? Any idea why? I've been within a a couple meters of a number of those critters and never had the feeling they were at all interested in me. :?:

--Larry

Not sure why lench. I was at the little taco place across the street from Dona Rosas in BOLA. For whatever reason the thing was just fixated on me. It was hanging around buzzing loudly for awhile when it suddenly made a B-line right at me. This when all bets are off and i run like hell. It just wouldn't relent. It was down right frightening to me but hilarious to everyone else. This must have went on for at least 3-4 minutes....go figure :?:

pargo - 1-4-2007 at 11:33 AM

Just a little deodorant under the arms nothing else. Not one for colognes and such. Maybe it was something I said

Halboo - 1-4-2007 at 01:29 PM

Certain colors will set some bugs off as well as scents.

rob - 1-4-2007 at 06:01 PM

Really interesting - here on the ranch at the Pacific coast we get a huge wasp-like creature (which I didn't recognize from the photos in this thread), but which my ranch fireman calls "toro de uva" (bull of the grapes) and said if you ever get stung by one you'll remember it . . .. it's huge and flies with the undercariage in the down position, kind of like a Concord in landing mode. Makes a noise like a small chain saw.

Summamus says "Brown Recluse spider..a non-aggresive spider, very gentle bite, non-lethal, the toxin starts to hurt a bit later, and the wound can take a while to heal."

This is putting it extremely mildly - while the Brown Recluse may well be gentle and non- aggressive - a short search of the Internet will show you that it is one of the most terrifying of the venomous spiders. It's bite will never kill you directly, in fact for a while you will not notice it - then a reddish swelling will appear, and then (but not in all cases) something horrible called "arachnidic necrosis".

Necrosis (I am no doctor) refers to flesh dying - and that's exactly what happens. Around the bite, the flesh begins to die. What I could NOT find is whether the brown recluse injects a venom that causes the necrosis, or takes a short cut and uses the flesh-eating bacteria that hospitals are familiar with.

If you are in the mood for a particularly nasty body of knowledge - just Goggle "Brown Recluse spider" . . .

Rob

Oh baby...

Sharksbaja - 1-5-2007 at 02:00 AM

A co-worker who cooked on boats was bitten by a recluse while at sea. The wound got progressively worse and it took 3 operations and 9 months to heal. It left a scar like a 44 mag would. He also contacted the bad form of measles that adults can get. He was told the spider was somehow responsible. Yikes!

My brother got it on the hand by a black widow. Giant red swelling of the hand and quite hot and painful. Recovered in a week or so. These damn hornets here in Oregon will chase your sorry ass down no matter how fast you run. I saw my wife and sister disturb an in-ground nest. It was like a cartoon. They went sceaming and running by me with a string of hornets after them. Funny thing was, they just ignored me and kept after them. They got nailed by many of them.

My bite(s) and subsequent hospitalization from a young rattler tho got first prize from mom. It did not hurt till the fourth day. After that it felt like a freshly broken bone.

Killer Wasp

Doug/Vamonos - 1-5-2007 at 11:38 AM

About seven years ago my wife and I were camping at Geckos and one of these landed in our camp. It was wild looking and big. About three inches long. It looked like a cross between a wasp, praying mantis and who knows what else. I remember describing it to Doc but can't remember what he said it was. Never seen one since. It was one serious looking bug.

Tarantulas and Wasps

frizkie - 1-6-2007 at 01:14 PM

Thank you all so much for all this good info re these critters.
I haven´t been on here much lately as I have been so busy building on my property here in Baja Sur at the Hot Springs near Santiago ...El Chorro to be exact.
So, one day I am leveling off some ground and out walks a Tarantula..WHOA!!!! Was I ever surprized....being from Victoria BC Canada I am not used to seeing these guys in my back yard!!! So I caught him (or her) and put him in a large see through container with sand and a rock to hide under...and fed him lots of big juicy cricketts (he loves cricketts)...a few days later I´m digging a ditch for my water line and out comes another Tarantula....I caught it as well and put him (or her) in the same container...thinking that they may enjoy each other´s company....Nope!!!! The next morning one dead spider had to be removed..Oh! Oh! Sorry!!! I still have one left. I know is not the original spider because he has a different sleeping pattern, and I swear a different personality...also, he does not eat as much. Ha!! Wonder of all wonders!!!...Now with the info that I´ve got from this post I may just start training him to retrieve tooth picks!!
There are also tons of Tarantula wasps around and they do not seem to be agressive but will be sure now to stay on their good side!!
Shari, I was wondering if the wasp you speak of is kinda rusty in color with some yellow stripes??? Lotsa those around too. I was just over at Cabo Pulmo for a few days swimming with the fishes and I saw loads of them.
Thanks tons for the info I will be more careful in future.

oldhippie - 1-6-2007 at 02:01 PM

sounds like Shari's sister-in-law had an allergic reaction to the toxin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaphylaxis

shari - 1-6-2007 at 05:00 PM

Whoah, how creepy this thread has become! Yep we have some of those helicopter type noisy tarantula wasps(called matavibora here) but that is NOT what bit Lupita. This flying critter was reddish and small and skinny without stripes and the doctor said the reaction was normal for this very venomous insect, not an allergic reaction. An interesting point about tarantulas is that we often see them a day or two before it rains....they come out of their holes so they don't drown!

[Edited on 1-7-2007 by shari]

Halboo - 1-11-2007 at 05:45 PM

Shari,
If you saw a picture of the offending insect would you recognize it?
I've never known mud daubers or paper wasps to be agressive.
I'm really curious what it was.

[Edited on 1-12-2007 by Halboo]

Got this picture of a Matavenado in San Nicolas

vgabndo - 1-11-2007 at 05:57 PM

We had lots of them.

Check out the little white tip on the end of the antenna that is in front of his fangs. That substance was very sticky, and he could support his entire weight, briefly, by the grip of one antenna. That's how he draws his prey into the fangs.

Although of four men who have lived in the village, up to 71 years, who spoke with me about Matavenado, none had ever been stung. They had no direct knowledge of a sting except that Benjamin said that there was a tremendous fever involved, and that if you couldn't get to the yerbas that Chico has for the purpose, you needed to go to a clinic.

Ben also said that few humans were bitten because the spider has to get his fangs around a portion of body then he injects his (supposed) "venom". We don't offer very many places where he can get a bite!

Everyone agreed that the damage done by a Matavenado was "three times as bad as a scorpion." Everyone.

Perhaps the fact that he is harmless has helped to perpetuate the myth. If he was actually doing three times as much damage as an alacran, he wouldn't be one of the last bugs we learn about. People would be getting stung, and everyone would know about it. As far as anybody knows, you get a bad fever, the story doesn't get changed because there can never be a sting with conflicting symptoms.

[Edited on 1-12-2007 by vgabndo]

Matavenado side view 2.JPG - 20kB

Halboo - 1-11-2007 at 07:03 PM

"my sister in law got stung by a matavenado which is a very small wasp, kind of reddish brown in color and about an inch and a half long...almost looks like a big flying ant."

That description sure don' fit the photo above which looks like some kind of Wind Scorpion. No wings for sure.
Also, my copy of the Audubon Insect Field Guide and all other research I've done says windscorpians,sunspiders and Vinegaroons, ugly buggers tho' they may be, do NOT have poison glands and are harmless to humans. Some like Vinegaroons have a defensive acetic acid excretion, but nothing deadly.
I'm really curious!

shari - 1-12-2007 at 09:06 AM

Nope that's not the sucker that stung her, yep I'd know it if I saw a picture, doesnt' look anything like a spider or scorpion, skinny runt but long body. Like I mentioned different folks have different names for these critters.Keep trying nomads.

Halboo - 1-12-2007 at 12:26 PM

Maybe somthing more like this Shari?
These wasps are male "velvet ants" and they are known in the Southwest US as cowkillers due to the pain of their stings.
Cow killer= Deer Killer?

Here's another look at the business end.

vgabndo - 1-12-2007 at 01:16 PM

It gets dark early, I had lots of time to play with the digital macro and my laptop charged on the gennie.

Matavenado front view 2.JPG - 34kB

Wandering thread

tehag - 1-12-2007 at 03:47 PM

Solpugid. Wind scorpion. Sun spider. Camel spider.

Don't know how we got there from a wasp, but we've been there before.

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=14092#pid1180...

vgabndo - 1-12-2007 at 04:04 PM

Uh, because Matavenado is in the name of the thread??? :?:

Halboo - 1-12-2007 at 04:31 PM

The thread begins like this

"A couple days ago, my sister in law got stung by a matavenado which is a very small wasp, kind of reddish brown in color and about an inch and a half long...almost looks like a big flying ant."
AND
the thread you posted mentions that they are not venomous as did I ..... :rolleyes:

shari - 1-12-2007 at 09:16 PM

Halboo, you are closest yet...but the front end looks wrong but the wings and butt are similar but the top half was red too like the back end, but this is very close indeed...well done.

Halboo - 1-13-2007 at 08:59 AM

There are several types and they are widespread and do live in Baja; almost assuredly a type of mutillidae (cow killer).
These guys agree
http://www.whatsthatbug.com/index.html

If you read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutillidae
it may explain why the locals believe they are capable of killing a large mammal.
[Edited on 1-13-2007 by Halboo]

[Edited on 1-13-2007 by Halboo]

Pappy Jon - 1-16-2007 at 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Halboo
Maybe somthing more like this Shari?
These wasps are male "velvet ants" and they are known in the Southwest US as cowkillers due to the pain of their stings. Cow killer= Deer Killer?

The stinger on bees and wasps is actually a modified ovipositor, hence only found on female bees and wasps. The male velvet ant doesn't have a stinger, but the females sure do. They hurt. Same rule applies to trantula wasps.

Cypress - 1-16-2007 at 01:07 PM

Been stung or bit by all sorts of bugs north of the border. Lucky to not having been bitten by any spiders or scorpions. No.