BajaNomad

Nauticia Escalera Fizzle

abreojos - 1-8-2007 at 06:41 AM

Looks like the website for the Nautica Escalera Project has been taken down now that Fox is out of office. Has anyone heard either rumor or fact about what is going on so we can kick it around a little ?

elgatoloco - 1-8-2007 at 07:12 AM

http://www.fonatur.gob.mx/mardecortes/

abreojos - 1-8-2007 at 07:22 AM

Thats a better looking website. Thanks elgatoloco!

4baja - 1-8-2007 at 07:56 AM

was just there and theres a hell of a wave at the new jetty on a big north. they will have to constanly dredge that harbor and still may not work.

boys trip 20005 002.jpg - 41kB

abreojos - 1-8-2007 at 07:58 AM

Where is that 4baja?

Crusoe - 1-8-2007 at 09:12 AM

Could this be San Carlos??

Bob H - 1-8-2007 at 09:17 AM

Is that photo in Punta Santa Rosalillita?
Bob H

4baja that isn't a recent photo is it?

vgabndo - 1-8-2007 at 11:22 AM

We were there on the 4th. and there was no way that silted in harbor could have floated that long liner. There was an easy walk through the harbor to the opening in the breakwater. It WAS low tide...but....

Damned nice road through!!:lol:

David K - 1-8-2007 at 11:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by grover
Quote:
Originally posted by abreojos
Where is that 4baja?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=oOAa2d5fpjg

The cameraman and sound editor deserve a good lynching.


No kidding Grover... You turn up the sound to hear the guy talk then got to crank it down for that (yech) soundtrack!

They couldn't even spell Santa Rosalillita (or pronounce it) correctly! Thank's for the link, however!

bajajudy - 1-8-2007 at 04:18 PM

Serge Dedina is a well respected member of the Wildcoast Org. He wrote the book, "Saving the Gray Whale"
The sound was horrible but what he was saying was poignant. More money wasted for some politicians wet dream.

If you go there check out all the other clips available on Baja...some better quality, some not....afterall it is only UTUBE.:lol:

Right on BajaJudy....

CasaManzana - 1-8-2007 at 06:27 PM

This thing has been a bad joke from the "concepcion". As a longtime sailor in Baja waters, this idea has been a running joke in California sailing circles that more than 25- 30 boats a year...MAX...would ever use this service. My guess is it will never see one yacht. Been good for the locals however...gotta a nice air strip..er...road out of the deal. SNAFU bigtime (Situation Normal- All F***ed Up). The entertainment factor is so great down here...well now that I think about it...pretty good up there as well these last few years.:rolleyes:

Escalera

tehag - 1-8-2007 at 07:27 PM

The death notice of Escalera Nautica is somewhat premature. If you doubt this, take a peek at Puerto Loreto (Pto. Escondido previously). Singlar is the new name, but the game hasn't changed all that much.

Jack Swords - 1-8-2007 at 08:03 PM

As Tehag pointed out, Escondido under Singlar has made major changes. Here in La Paz the new marina labeled a part of Escalara Nautica is almost completed in the west part of the bay down a looong channel (like Chula Vista in CA). They have the docks installed, buildings, fuel dock, and lots of jackstands for boat storage. It appears identical to that in Escondido. So far no boats, but the new marina, Costa Baja, empty last year is full this year. This place is jumping with new development. At least 3 golf courses are planned, 500 slip marina too. La Ribera is getting a 4 star hotel and another marina to be cut into the land. San Jose del Cabo's new marina is advertising now and charges $20 - $30 USD a foot of boat length per month. Cabo has a waiting list. This mirrors the growth in condos, hotels, and houses. Loreto Bay has competition on the Magote in La Paz with Paraiso del Mar, a similar outlandish development. But, they are selling.
Fewest number of anchor-outs I've seen. Seems most boaters are now able to pay for slips. Will be interesting to see how this pans out. Getting crowded on the Sea of Cortez....

4baja - 1-8-2007 at 08:08 PM

this is not a new pic as i didnt have my cam at the time but it shows the harbor. if anybody has spent as much time as i have spent there then you know the plan is crazy. the times i have spent there with sail boats comeing in with brocken mast, blown moters, and damaged hulls has amased me. the area is a wind magnet and the pacific is brutal in the winter with waves and in the summer with wind and fog. in the summer tho can have awesome fishing with large black sea bass and calico heaven. with the harshness i still love the area.:coolup:

abreojos - 1-8-2007 at 08:13 PM

I heard that the Villa Group, who have timeshare, full and fractional resorts both in Cabo and PV are going to break ground in Loreto this spring for the 1st timeshare there. Haven't confirmed this yet, but it came from a reliable source. I know they have bought property there.

Don Alley - 1-8-2007 at 08:41 PM

The "Escalara Nautica" project is now the "Mar de Cortez" project.

Perhaps the "land bridge" concept, and enticing visiting yachts from California, won't pan out. But it appears that the emphasis is shifting to marina development on the SOC to mimic Cabo San Lucas.

La Paz: Lots of new development. Many second homes being built for north Americans. Many of these people want boats and La Paz may find that they can lease slips as fast as they can put them in. And also supply dry storage for the seasonal visitors.

Loreto: As Loreto Bay and other developments grow, there will be a demand for slips and dry storage. The Loreto Marina has little capacity but Puerto Escondido has been building facilities for fueling and boat storage. I would imagine slips will be in soon. Assuming Loreto Bay and the Villas development don't fail there could be a large demand for slips and dry storage. Much of the trailer parking area has been designated as storage area, and the ramp replaced, giving less real estate to the local trailer boaters but there is some controversey there and the old ramp and parking area re-opened after a very brief closure.

Villas group: I saw an interview with a local official on the TV last year saying Villas plans a 2000 unit development. I don't know if they are time shares. The location is Ensenada Blanca. Lots of controversy there over access and the continued location of the existing village.

El Jefe - 1-8-2007 at 09:08 PM

I surfed the harbor entry at Santa Rosaliita about three weeks ago. Waves broke right across where you would want to sail your boat through to get into the marina. Small but fun surf with off shore winds just howling. This will be a rare bird wave that only breaks on a big NW swell. Might even be OK when the marina is dredged. The thing is full of sand right now so no boats could get in. There is a lot of construction activity going on there, however. Who knows?

oxxo - 1-8-2007 at 09:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jack Swords
Costa Baja, empty last year is full this year.


I keep my boat at Marina Costa Baja. Yes the place is now full. Annnnnd, since it is full...........they are increasing their slip fees by 55% on February 1. Ouch!

I believe there is going to be an ever increasing demand for marine services in Baja for at least 10 years into the future. Mexico "on the cheap" is becoming increasingly difficult and is probably a thing of the past in some parts of Baja.

I read these many comments...

Mexray - 1-8-2007 at 11:06 PM

...with interest, however, keep in mind that this project has another 8 or so years of develement, according to the Fonatur web site 'Gato' posted above.

If you read the Fonatur info (in English) on their site, they spell out in great detail what the project is all about, and how they intend their efforts will improve the living conditions of many Mexican citizens.

While some here don't like the looks of this project, and question it's 'essence', I believe you are a bit premature in calling it a 'failure'.

Bringing about 'real' change over so vast an area, takes time and much effort and co-operation from those directly involved...sure there are pitfalls and false-starts, but take a look at the 'big dig' in Boston to see how far reaching government 'boondoggles' can take years and years to try to get it right!

I believe the Mexican Govt. truly wants to improve it's citizens living conditions, and this tourist oriented project will help further that goal. Again if you read the Fonatur info, you will see that part of this project includes basic improvements in electrification, communication, clean water, sanitation, and roadways for many rural Baja locations.

The Baja of old is changing, and the paving of hwy 1, in 1973, probably started the ball rolling, for good or bad, depending how you look at the 'glass'. While I have no data to support my thoughts, I feel you won't find a sizable part of Baja's Mexican population that doesen't welcome these infrastructure improvements.

Mexico knows from past Fonatur projects, that..."If you build it, they will come!"

It's truly a double edged sword...we travel from the North, to the less crowded, solitude of Baja's wonderful beaches, till, low and behold, there are so many of us there, it's beginning to get 'crowded' again! Guess what - there are many more of us here on the 'Globe', seeking that 'solitude' than there were 30 years ago...I offer no solution, only some observations from afar....:?:

Viva Baja...and it's citizens who put up with we 'Northern Invaders'.

Sharksbaja - 1-8-2007 at 11:34 PM

I think we're better off waiting for the canal;D

abreojos - 1-9-2007 at 01:59 AM

When this project first started I checked on the Internet to see who had the concession with Pemex for the fuel dock in Abreojos. Well, it wasn't anyone from Abreojos. The economic benifets to the community, if any will be minimal.

Gadget - 1-9-2007 at 09:55 PM

Youtube videos??? Logged on and scanned a few of the surf??? videos. Lack of wave, camera and surf talent quality was embarrassing to watch. I was trying to not be critical, but I had to ask myself, would I post this if I looked like this? :smug: :o

Cruiser trash talk

Dave - 1-9-2007 at 10:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by CasaManzana
This thing has been a bad joke from the "concepcion". As a longtime sailor in Baja waters, this idea has been a running joke in California sailing circles that more than 25- 30 boats a year...MAX...would ever use this service. My guess is it will never see one yacht.


California sailing circles??? Wazz that? :biggrin:

The "boating" community has changed. Anyone who can afford a new toy can, and will, use these services.

abreojos - 1-10-2007 at 04:54 AM

I think it is a safe bet that there are going to be more and more people coming to Baja and if this project gets the same attention that Fox gave it while he was president, it will go somewhat according to planned. And in some way I hope little towns like Abreojos benifit from it. I tried real hard convincing the cooperative in Abreojos in planning their economic future by subsidizing their income with controled tourism and selling their catch locally instead of shipping it of to the far east. The younger residents liked the idea and the older ones who control the town eyed it with suspicion. In the long run there will be a couple of people who take advantage of the opportunities that come along and the rest will sand back and watch.
Baja history shows that most locals are the last one's to get it when it come time for their town to change and them to benifit from it. The government has an educational program they started at the beginning of this project to educate as many people as possible, but I doubt the is has reach a significent number of people.

Osprey - 1-10-2007 at 07:39 AM

The Gringo Gazette is wrong about most things but a recent article on the San Jose marina was well done. The author kept it short and explained why marinas are so hard to build and sustain. The 22 steps in the new ladder calls for new marinas/fuel stations like St. R and Pt. Canoa where they are going to encounter the "nature bats last" thing that's a pocket buster. Not so in Loreto/Escondido because of the island protection. Over fishing in the north, phytoplankton greenouts from the Yaqui Valley runoff have taken all the fish away from the eastern shores of the SOC so SoCal yachties will have to have very cheap incentives to come "down and around".

oldhippie - 1-10-2007 at 07:46 AM

I like this project, it's a good idea and I hope it works. I think the SOC marinas have a better shot at success than the Pacific coast marinas.

"The three programs in the Sea of Cortez Project are geared toward common objectives: conserve the ecosystem, restructure the economy, create jobs and improve the quality of life for the population while improving the quality of tourism development."

Since Calderon is carrying on Fox's programs, I imagine things will move forward once he gets his administration going. Certainly the Mexicans realize that as "Alta California" becomes the land for only the rich and working poor, and as the baby boomers who live there start to retire in the next couple of years, there's going to be scads of people with big piles of money saved up, looking to move somewhere more affordable and warmer. And Baja is just down the street. I suppose that's why there is an English version of the web site.

Don Alley - 1-10-2007 at 09:56 AM

Currently, demand for marina slips in Southern California is intense. There is a wait of years for larger slips, and Dana Point is considering evicting boats of 30ft and less to make room for larger, more lucrative slips.

As Loreto Bay and other developments grow, demand for boats, and places to keep them, will grow. Same for the La Paz area. And if Fonatur/Singalr/API ever get their act together, marketing a condo/boat slip combo could tap into the California market of frustrated boaters unable to get slips.

The models for all this are the marinas at Cabo San Lucas and possibly mainland marinas, like San Carlos. But it also signals a change in economic scale. At Puerto Escondido, for example, there is a finite amount of space available. Like Dana Point, there is pressure towards utilizing that space for the most lucrative customers. In other words, build a new launch ramp to service the local (Tripui) trailerboaters with less space for trailer parking. Switch the large space they currrently use to more profitable yacht storage. And of course, raise the rates for launching and parking.

API has also suggested instituting a fee for using the Loreto Marina (or "darsina"), which they call "Puerto Loreto." Local pangeros have so far resisted the fee, and have resisted a launch ramp fee. Should the marina become a fee based, profit making enterprise, expect the makeup of the resident watercraft to change. Hopefully the local pangeros will have enough beach left somewhere to keep and launch their boats.

Local nationals my find themselves divided between winners and losers, those who profit from the changes and those who lose. But likewise, longtime visitors and expats will be affected by the changes as well, some welcoming changes that will improve their visits or residency, while othere may feel they are crowded or priced out.

oxxo - 1-10-2007 at 10:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by oldhippie
I think the SOC marinas have a better shot at success than the Pacific coast marinas.


I understand your logic but I'm not sure I agree. Marina slips are almost non existent in Southern California. Often times there is a waiting list that is years. The California Use Tax as well as Property Tax are other issues for SoCal boaters.

I think that if there are safe, secure marinas on the Pacific coast of Baja within 4 to 8 hour drive from the border then SoCal boaters will fill them up. As far as interesting destinations, I know at least a couple dozen pristine anchorages along the Baja Pacific coast that would merit years of exploration.

oldhippie - 1-11-2007 at 12:40 AM

oxxo

I'm not a boater so my guess that the SOC will be more successful is based purely on the better winter weather / sea state on the east coast. Since you're a boater, your point of view probably is more correct.

abreojos - 1-11-2007 at 01:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by oldhippie
I like this project, it's a good idea and I hope it works. I think the SOC marinas have a better shot at success than the Pacific coast marinas.

"The three programs in the Sea of Cortez Project are geared toward common objectives: conserve the ecosystem, restructure the economy, create jobs and improve the quality of life for the population while improving the quality of tourism development."

Since Calderon is carrying on Fox's programs, I imagine things will move forward once he gets his administration going. Certainly the Mexicans realize that as "Alta California" becomes the land for only the rich and working poor, and as the baby boomers who live there start to retire in the next couple of years, there's going to be scads of people with big piles of money saved up, looking to move somewhere more affordable and warmer. And Baja is just down the street. I suppose that's why there is an English version of the web site.

Your right on here ya oldhippie. In order to conserve the environment a new economic model needs to replace the old one. It is better to have a plan than just haphazard capitalism. I want to be part of the solution and not part of the problem. I think everyone here agrees with that.