BajaNomad - A very BAD report from Loreto!

A very BAD report from Loreto!

Pages: 1 2

flyfishinPam - 6-9-2007 at 12:48 PM

I was on my way to the shop just before 1pm when I decided to go to the marina.

This morning when dispatching boats I noticed that the South half of the town's launchramo was torn apart. Now they're working on tearing up the rest of it and already the rebar and obstacles make using it dangerous.

There's a port captain guy out there right now who has to tell everyone pulling their boats out that the launch ramp will now be closed starting tomorrow! So when he told me I got mad and asked why everyone wasn't notified. He said they were and I said B.S. then he said "the people here" were notified. Yeah the ones within 15 meters of the launchramp and those unfortunate enough to be hauling out their 30 foot Cabo at that moment.

So I ask how long will this go on? Keep in mind (very upset here) this is right at the start of the high season for us here in Loreto. He says about six weeks!

So fact is that you'll need to be able to launch on the beach for several weeks (at least) if you want to launch from town.

I asked where will all the boats go? ...like my husband who launches every day and our other boats who launch every day? He told me "in there". I informed him that there are more boats that fish here who launch than keep inside this marina, again where will be boats go? He said on the beach. I said we need to hire security, who's gonna pay for that?! ...and what about these guys? (I pointed to a local norteamericano guy who fishes most days out of his own boat)...and he told me they'll all hae to use Puerto Escondido!

I can't write any more I'm so furious. They are doing something illegal I know it because they are making it difficult for those who choose to keep keep our boats out of the marina for lack of space, security and protection. They are making it difficult for us to work and support our families.

The sad part is that I'm going to be making a lot of phone calls informing people and now I have to get us all together to plan security measures.

APIBCS is responsible for this.

This SUCKS in a big way!!! :fire:

[Edited on 6-9-2007 by flyfishinPam]

[Edited on 6-9-2007 by flyfishinPam]

Bob and jane - 6-9-2007 at 01:34 PM

Pam,
We launched and retrieved from the marina yesterday and no one said a word to us about the closure then....
We just heard yesterday, though, that the mayor's fishing tournament has been scheduled for June 23, that's 2 weeks from today. Apparently they forgot to tell the mayor that the ramp will be closed for his tournament. Wonder what he will do when HE finds out?! Then there is the vagabundo's tournament the first weekend in July and the Fishin for the Mission the next weekend.
I just have to think that the %&@#$ is going to hit the fan, and things will change. We may just go ahead and try our 6 a.m. launch tomorrow and see what happens.......................

flyfishinPam - 6-9-2007 at 01:42 PM

Hi there,

My blood is still boiling right now but they don't give a chit about any of us, the tournament, the people working during our high season, you visitors towing your boats, you locals who keep your boat in your garage and wish to fish once in awhile... everything will be moved for the convienence of the beautiful people!

geezus they've ripped the streets apart all over town, three times this week raw sewage has spewed out in front of my shop from broken pipes that were failry recently installed. Loreto is a chithole right now and an embarrasment. VAgabundos ought to move it all to PE, the governor's cup will have to take place at the beach and we'll all have to be lucky enough to have four wheel drive tow vehicles, hire security guards, help our friends, inconvience ourselves, and make our working situations very difficult. the APIBCS guy was receiving complaints by me passed on by the port captain rep. he was clueless about our concerns and went and hid from us. Yesterday we had a ramp today, nada. I will include this in this weekend's report as I've been taking pictures. I close at 5pm wonder what the thing will be like by then?!

APIBCS :moon:

[Edited on 6-9-2007 by flyfishinPam]

Cypress - 6-9-2007 at 01:53 PM

Could be that a couple of factory ships are moving in to work the area. :?:

Keep the local fishermen away so they won't know what's going on.

flyfishinPam - 6-9-2007 at 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob and jane
We may just go ahead and try our 6 a.m. launch tomorrow and see what happens.......................

don't waste your time and if you don't believe me go for it, see you in the morning, Oh maybe not because we'll have to launch north of La Pinta on the beach for the rest of the summer!

flyfishinPam - 6-9-2007 at 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
Could be that a couple of factory ships are moving in to work the area. :?:

Keep the local fishermen away so they won't know what's going on.

won't keepo us out of the water, 4WD toyota 4 runner, the dustiest truck in town will tow across the beach, you folks on the beach along calle davis, well...there will be several boats in front of your beach now

tripledigitken - 6-9-2007 at 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
Could be that a couple of factory ships are moving in to work the area. :?:

Keep the local fishermen away so they won't know what's going on.

Like the ones posted here yesterday, working Mulege! :fire:

flyfishinPam - 6-9-2007 at 02:58 PM

was just back at the marina a little while ago. looks like they left the north half intact and have gone for the weekend. its likely they will finish the job on monday so at least we have 36 hours to figure out alternative launches, whoopee!

Ramp

tehag - 6-9-2007 at 03:14 PM

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=24177#pid2212...

flyfishinPam - 6-9-2007 at 03:20 PM

true the ramp was/is in crappy condition but to close it without notifying anyone and before the high season? it ain't right
how do you feel about now having to launch at PE and pay an additional $30USD to do it? (not to mention a 36mi R/T by road to get there)

backninedan - 6-9-2007 at 03:35 PM

I was down at the launch ramp earlier today and assumed that they were going to repair half the ramp at a time, allowing for continued launching. Silly me. That makes wayyyy to much sense.

Bob and jane - 6-9-2007 at 03:35 PM

They never told me!!!
Funny, tho not so funny, but wed., when they 1st began the work, I asked someone I though might be el jefe if the ramp would be closed. His answer was no, it would be done half, then half, so ramp would remain open. They must be joshing you Pam, they wouldn't do this now. then again, they probably are.-- this town is a mess!!! Buena suerte!!

Gnome-ad - 6-9-2007 at 03:38 PM

So sorry to hear of this mess. Though we don't fish, I remember last July in Loreto when the fishing tournament was in progress. We were so lucky to get a room by the water while hauling down our things. This sounds like some sort of purposeful sabotage to one very uninvolved. Hope the mayor finds out soon enough to perhaps stop them from tearing up the rest on Monday. Perhaps someones huevos will be scrambled over the weekend.

:mad:

Loreto Ramp

wakemall - 6-9-2007 at 08:23 PM

Pam,

Russ Hatch's friend.... My brother and I am coming down 6/29 to try out our new boat that Momo has. Do you think the ramp will still be closed. I cannot launch this boat from the beach! I cannot believe that my friend with Profepa did not tell me. He must have been unaware. This is bad. Close the ramp right in the middle of the fishing season. Who made this decision?????

Thanks,
Bret

vandenberg - 6-10-2007 at 09:30 AM

Anybody been to the ramp yet today and is able to give us a report ?

backninedan - 6-10-2007 at 09:36 AM

Van,

I was there this morning and they have started working on the north half of the ramp (below water level). Now both sides are torn up, hope they told pangeros who went out earlier this morning that recovery will be a real challenge by the time they come in.

I am heading back down around 1:00 to watch the fun. This is going to put a real kink in the three upcoming tournaments.

vandenberg - 6-10-2007 at 09:47 AM

Dan,

May see you there to watch the procedings.
Mexico at it's finest :?:

backninedan - 6-10-2007 at 10:47 AM

I just came back "again". The ramp is just 5 minutes from my place to its easy to watch the so called progress.
All of the concrete below the water line is gone, and all the concrete on the south side of the ramp is gone. Im not sure how the boats that are out will be able to recover. There are 10 or so gringo trailers parked along the malecon, some I recognize and they have 22 foot or longer boats. I wouldn't want to recover my 18 footer, let alone a 22 or more.
Van, I am still going down about 1, buy you a beer if we meet up.

vandenberg - 6-10-2007 at 02:12 PM

Nomads, Just back from a visit to the ramp. My wife talked to the crew that were demolishing the rest of the north side of the ramp and was told that the south end will be back in operation by Wednesday. That's what one guy told her. They told a friend the 15th, so whatever comes first

So here we are, holding our breath and hoping for the best.
Like the Wednesday estimate better, more Mexican.
WHICH WEDNESDAY :lol:

backninedan - 6-10-2007 at 02:22 PM

Met Ed (Vandenberg) at the ramp, and other than a pangero friend of mine, (Francisco..Pams husband). No other boats tried to recover. Francisco had me drive his panga a bit north and he met me with his truck for a beach recovery.
As Ed said, the workers say it will be ready this week, (half anyway). . We shall see.

tuna stick - 6-10-2007 at 02:49 PM

Just got back from the marina. One of Arturo's pangas was able to trailer out on the north half of the ramp,but it looked a little rough. A friend with a Bay Runner came into the marina,but decided to head north instead.

Bob and jane - 6-10-2007 at 03:31 PM

We launched at the ramp a little late this morning, a bit after 6 a.m. Used the north side of the ramp--no problem. No one said a word. Bill Earhardt was kind enough to radio us about 2 p.m. to let us know the bottom of the north side of the ramp had been torn out while we were on the water! Bill met us north of the La Pinta and with help from Randy Hamman and Bill we had a fairly easy retrieve over the beach, using 4 low in the little old Nissan pickup. Might have been a miserable surprise to back the trailer down and have it disappear at the bottom of the ramp! Looks like its time to air down and practice our beach launches until.........................

ramp

tehag - 6-11-2007 at 02:22 PM

Loreto ramp progress, June 11, 2007

South side pretty much gone, north under demolition. The plan, probably at least a little optimistic, is to resurface the south first and reopen it on Thursday, the 14th OF THIS MONTH.

Pic is of the last of the south coming out.

The ramp is definitely closed at this time.

[Edited on 6-11-2007 by tehag]

RampRepair01.jpg - 37kB

'nother pic

tehag - 6-11-2007 at 02:24 PM

Accumulated rubble in parking lot.

RampRubble01.jpg - 47kB

flyfishinPam - 6-11-2007 at 02:34 PM

UN-&#cking believeable!

So they actually allowed us to use the ramp yesterday. Woop de do! We launched just after six when I checked and saw others using the ramp. I was specifically told on Saturday without being joshed that the ramp would be cerrado on Sunday so we thought we were getting off easy, or making our voices heard, but no...instead of keeping it open for the rest of the day and properly informing the people that it would no longer be available on Monday, they simply took the bottom pieces of concrete away from the North half of the ramp, rendering it useless to those needing to pull out their boats that were already in the water.....

OK~ now cover your eyes if you're sensitive or if there are any young readers around.... this is just another F.U. to Loretanos, and visitors to Loreto from the state (ROAD PAVING), fed (APIBCS) and municipal government (WATER WORKS). They did this on purpose right at the start of the high season. No the ramp won't be fixed by Wednesday because they're telling you what you want to hear, you ought to know they do that by now. Why don't you ask someone who is a native Loretano when they think it will be ready..... I''ve already done that and the concession is from 2 to 4 months, I was told six weeks. Again, they will tell you want you want to hear. So fact is you will need to make alternate plans if you cannot launch from off the beach for most or all of this summer.

OH yes, thanks backninedan for driving our toyota to the beach and helping Francisco get the boat out yesterday, who woulda thought those imbecils would tell the nice demolotion workers to get out there on a sunday morning just to send a message to us poor working stiffs.

And guy with a boat at momo's, I doubt you'll be able to launch by the 29th of June. If I am wrong and they do indeed construct an acceptable ramp by Wednesday I will eat a live sardina on video!

WE suffer so Loreto Bay can sell more homes.

flyfishinPam - 6-11-2007 at 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wakemall
This is bad. Close the ramp right in the middle of the fishing season. Who made this decision?????

Thanks,
Bret

Best I never find out I haven't been so angry in a very long time and I'm ot alone either :fire:

Don Alley - 6-11-2007 at 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by flyfishinPam

Quote:

Originally posted by wakemall
This is bad. Close the ramp right in the middle of the fishing season. Who made this decision?????

Thanks,
Bret

Best I never find out I haven't been so angry in a very long time and I'm ot alone either :fire:

API is a state organization-Unidos Vamos Por Mas!
Director General, Arq. Brian Westall Gonzalez email direccion@bajaport.com

http://www.bajaport.com/

flyfishinPam - 6-11-2007 at 04:19 PM

Oops my bad then I'm mad at the state for API and for not paving the roads. I guess my federal taxes are going to a good cause

and my state and muni taxes are going to fund more ineptness on the local level. Now how can a muni marina and ramp that was once constructed by the feds get turned over to fonatur now be in the hands of the state? quien sabe ~

jerry - 6-11-2007 at 06:11 PM

what does loreto bay have to do with rebuilding the boat ramp??

flyfishinPam - 6-11-2007 at 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jerry
what does loreto bay have to do with rebuilding the boat ramp??

oh Jerry, defender of Large developments in sensitive water lacking areas...Here goes, well we in Loreto have been living with these "improvements" for six months and still not one block is paved yet. The waterworks that were installed were part of a deal to improve the infrastructure to handle a population of 30-40,000. FAct is that Loreto Bay has a biggest stake in this scenario, they have a proposed 13,000 units which is the sum of their hotel rooms and homes and according to GEA and other reliable sources, for every ONE unit constructed, TWENTY new persons come to this area to support them. So for that 13,000 new units we will have another 260,000 persons in Loreto. do you really think that this town can support that number of persons? seriously? LB is planning nicely for the population of buyers will will come there to live but they are failing to plan for the additional 260K new persons it will take to support their sustainable village. Now remember the city was recently blessed with the new responsiblity of handling the waste generated from Loreto and nopolo. too bad this new infrastructure that we've been dealing with all this time will be unable to handle what's coming. it will be outdated and obsolete for the needs of Loreto in short order. Now the rampa is also part of these improvements and it is an insult to those of this town who are directly affected because 1) they decided to do this right in the high season for fishing and 2) they never informed the people directly affected by this repair of the closure! I am insulted by the treatment that I as a businessperson who pays significant taxes is getting, I am disgusted with how my colleagues and neighbors are being treated. Jerry is your income being affected by these changes? Mine is and so is that of every other negociante in this town. Loreto Bay and this new breed of immigrant into this town wants to change this place into their own private club, I have this message loud and clear. I;m not invited, you're not invited and most of the town isn;t invited either. Those that think they are, the politicos aren't really invited either and its time for us to get together and fire them all! hope that's a good answer for ya

Don Alley - 6-11-2007 at 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jerry
what does loreto bay have to do with rebuilding the boat ramp??

And a little more...

Take one BIG developer and their media campaign, and others follow. Not just other developers, but carpetbagging government agencies. We'll see more state and federal guys looking for violations and fines to collect. More state and federal guys looking for fees to collect. More state and federal guys chopping up Loreto into their own little fiefdoms: Fonatur gets this, Singlar gets that, API gets that, etc.

Never mind that most of these bureaucracies have little experience in managing the infrastructure that they are running, and they don't have the connections or the skills to communicate effectively with those that their actions affect.

API has taken the Loreto darsina, now renamed "Puerto Loreto," to collect the $10 US that each cruise ship passenger is assessed (whether they make landfall or not). They griped about sugggestions that they were responsible for fixing a launch ramp that does not make revenue for them. "So, you want it fixed, here you go...we'll fix it NOW." THEIR plan was that the gringos could all haul their boats to PE and get soaked with the Singlar (the private boat marina bureaucracy) high fees. It's the new Loreto, with a huge and ever widening gap between Mexicans (increasingly mostly mainlanders) and gringos, gringos who will be expected to pay dearly, with most of that money going to out of the area fatcats.

jerry - 6-12-2007 at 09:34 AM

im sorry pam and who ever else has been effected buy the construction
i do believe that mexico has the right to do as they please its there country if your a mexico or a citisen of mexico you have the right to vote and change what you can
as a gringo im a guest and that is where my influence here ends
i belive that the people who are buying places at loreto bay have the same rights that i do
so all improvements to loretos infrastructure,streets, hospital and boat ramp are all bad things? perhaps the timeing isnt good?? but i think its a far streach to blame everything negative that happens on loreto bay
people have complaned that water was being waisted for years and years so when its fixed and is inconvent its loreto bays fault??
the hospitals in loreto were worthless as far as im conserned so there a chance that the new one will be better lets condem it because of loreto bay??
a whole lot of people have been complaning about the boat ramp for at least 14 yrs that i been going to loreto and not too long ago the people on this board where right there complaning too so its getting fixed lets drag loreto bay throu the dirt for that too??
dont get me wrong i think everyone should have been notified of the closuer and it could have been done at a better time but then its mexico and things happen different here as they allways have

Don Alley - 6-12-2007 at 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jerry
...i do believe that mexico has the right to do as they please its there country if your a mexico or a citisen of mexico you have the right to vote and change what you can
as a gringo im a guest and that is where my influence here ends
i belive that the people who are buying places at loreto bay have the same rights that i do...

I often see similar sentiments posted here. I just don't agree. Sure, they have the POWER to do what they want. But I just don't buy into the implied moral relativism. Some things are just not right, regardless of your nationality, culture, tastes, or wealth. Legality only shields one from the law, not from criticism. And if there is a Hell, not from that either. "But gee, Satan, my lawyer said it was legal." :lol:

jerry - 6-12-2007 at 01:33 PM

then i suggest that all who want to protest should let themselves be known to the oppistion and God Help You because the law is the only thing that civilized people have
everyone who breaks the law feels that there above it, their reason is justified

when you find your selves shipped out of mexico then you can have another thing to portest and you can blame loreto bay for that too??

dont californacate mexico

flyfishinPam - 6-12-2007 at 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jerry

dont californacate mexico

so how do you know my particular immigration status? how can you say who will be thrown out of the country?
seriously your comments become more incoherent by the day

mtgoat666 - 6-12-2007 at 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tehag
Loreto ramp progress, June 11, 2007

South side pretty much gone, north under demolition. The plan, probably at least a little optimistic, is to resurface the south first and reopen it on Thursday, the 14th OF THIS MONTH.

Pic is of the last of the south coming out.

The ramp is definitely closed at this time.

[Edited on 6-11-2007 by tehag]

Closing the ramp for a few weeks to rebuild it seems practical. Maybe the contractor and city guys need to do it when they have staff available. No matter what time they do it, someone will be inconvenienced, so what's a little inconvenience, if in the end the world has a shiny new boat ramp and all live happily ever after?

woody with a view - 6-12-2007 at 03:05 PM

looking at the pictures, and having never been there i'm left wondering......are they only removing/repairing down to the waterline? or are they gonna drive piles and pump out the water so they can fix what is below the waterline. or do you just back up until it drops off the edge? the picture looks like there's a ledge at the edge............

backninedan - 6-12-2007 at 03:55 PM

Woody,

There is a ledge, it was filled with what looked like pre-formed blocks. I'm guessing they will do something similar this time. Pour the proper shapes on land and then set them in place. But I may be totally wrong. We shall see.

jerry - 6-12-2007 at 04:21 PM

first of all my coment wasnt directed at you pam
i have never said i knew your immagration status however i do know you are married to a mexican national i said those who can vote can votefor whatever
and guests who have involved them selves in politics in mexico are asking for trouble and it sure as hell isnt up to me
when i hear coment here that it is more nobal to break the law of the land then to obey it i really wonder where peoples heads are at??

Don Alley - 6-12-2007 at 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666
Closing the ramp for a few weeks to rebuild it seems practical. Maybe the contractor and city guys need to do it when they have staff available. No matter what time they do it, someone will be inconvenienced, so what's a little inconvenience, if in the end the world has a shiny new boat ramp and all live happily ever after?

Yes, it does seem practial. Except that for many months API said no. They would not fix it. They could have fixed it in December, when the wind gave us just 4-5 possible fishing days. But fixing it in June? Doh!

But if they have it open by Thursday, all is forgiven and we get to see someone eat a live sardinia on video! :biggrin:

jerry - 6-12-2007 at 04:27 PM

pams a pretty tuff gal and i heard she likes sardinia anyway :yes:

flyfishinPam - 6-12-2007 at 04:31 PM

Hey there. If by tomorrow I can reasonably launch my boat, I will have botas net some fresh ones and yes, I will eat a live one! Checked out the ramp a few hours ago and I can safely say that I'll probably not be eating any sardina sushi manana or even thursday. But I wish I was actually going to make that video instead and we had a functioning ramp.

Jerry. Where anywhere have I ever recomended anyone including myself break the law? I am taking measures that are legal. The business community here is peeed and finally after all these years of being counterproductive against each other we're coming together.

jerry - 6-12-2007 at 07:01 PM

as i said pam i was not talking about you

flyfishinPam - 6-12-2007 at 07:39 PM

ok jerry I still luv ya!

elizabeth - 6-12-2007 at 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jerry

when i hear coment here that it is more nobal to break the law of the land then to obey it i really wonder where peoples heads are at??

Am I missing something here? I didn't see any post that advocated breaking the law, or any statement that said it was more noble to break the law...

vandenberg - 6-12-2007 at 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by elizabeth

Quote:

Originally posted by jerry

when i hear coment here that it is more nobal to break the law of the land then to obey it i really wonder where peoples heads are at??

Am I missing something here? I didn't see any post that advocated breaking the law, or any statement that said it was more noble to break the law...

Elizabeth,
You have to learn to read between the lines of these Nomad posts, a very tricky thing to do. :lol:

oldhippie - 6-13-2007 at 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jerry
when i hear coment here that it is more nobal to break the law of the land then to obey it i really wonder where peoples heads are at??

Jerry, I know these are extreme examples but at one time it was legal to buy and sell people as slaves in the United States and it was illegal for non land owners and women to vote.

My point is that just because there is a law forbidding or allowing something doesn't always make that something reasonable and right.

oldhippie - 6-13-2007 at 07:41 AM

And to really make my point, AT ONE TIME IT WAS ILLEGAL TO DRINK BEER IN THE UNITED STATES. Talk about stupid laws that I would have broken every day with joy!! :bounce:

Reeljob - 6-13-2007 at 07:49 AM

Pam:

I'm glad to hear the merchants are getting together on the problems in Loreto. There IS strength in numbers.

I bet you will have more support from NOMADS than even you could imagine.

tripledigitken - 6-13-2007 at 08:03 AM

Pam,

Just in case.

Can you get Wasabi in Loreto?

jerry - 6-13-2007 at 08:47 AM

if ya cant get wasabi ask brenda i gave her some plan old horesradish that can help it slid :spingrin:

Iflyfish - 6-13-2007 at 09:38 AM

I recall reading in this wonderful book called "There Is A Word For It In Mexico" that there is a word "Chinga" that seems to describe this situation. I love that book. It really helped me to understand a lot of the cultural differences I have experienced while visiting Mexico. Another Nomad recommended this book to us.

I wrote a small paper that I posted on another site in which I recommended that people read this great book while they are obtaining their immigration papers and going from this office to that office to that window and back to that office. I also recommended the same strategy, that is to read the book in line as you get your fishing license.

We once had our umpteen thousand dollar Neurofeedback equipment blown up in a five star Hacienda on the mainland where we had our office. Act of God. The ground wire was hanging in the air above the bolt it was supposed to be attached. Sometimes one just has to shake ones head, have a drink and re-read "There Is A Word For It In Mexico".

Hope a little humor helps, sometimes it's all ya got!

Iflyfish

backninedan - 6-13-2007 at 10:14 AM

Todays ramp update:

Just got back from the marina, they have all the rebar in place below the water line and have put dams up to hold the concrete. The upper portion is still half done, but at least they are making progress.

Pam, It looks like you won't be eating any sardines. Im sure this makes the sardines happy too.

wilderone - 6-13-2007 at 12:06 PM

"because the law is the only thing that civilized people have"

So, so wrong. Respect for each other; the Golden Rule is what civilized people have. And a civilized society supposedly has their elected officials to act in their stead for the good of the whole. Loreto is a fishing town and should be understood by those who make municipal decisions. Public Works projects can be accomplished without too much disruption as is constantly done in a civilized society with elected officials. Proper notification, alternative accommodations, not disruptive to commercial enterprises during high season. Jerry, something tells me you were once a government employee.

Cypress - 6-13-2007 at 12:22 PM

wilderone, Your take on the ramp situation sounds good to me!

jerry - 6-13-2007 at 12:55 PM

wilderone you are as far off as you could be i have been self imployed nearly all of my adult life
respect comes from morals eather for fear of the law or the fear of hell

Ramp update

tehag - 6-13-2007 at 01:42 PM

New estimate for reopening is at ten days from today, Wednesday.

Also in the near future, a 12 dollar launch fee is to be inaugurated.

tripledigitken - 6-13-2007 at 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by grover

Quote:

Originally posted by oldhippie...AT ONE TIME IT WAS ILLEGAL TO DRINK BEER...

And didn't that work out well for us.

Got to admit though, they were pretty snappy dressers.

:lol:

oldhippie - 6-13-2007 at 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tehag
Also in the near future, a 12 dollar launch fee is to be inaugurated.

So you launch your boat 10 times in one year and you've paid probably something close to what the Loreto Bay owners are paying in annual property taxes (mine are $102 per year on a new 1600 sqft beach house in TJ).

Buy hey, the town needs the money to process the chit flowing out of Loreto Bay. Afterall, Loreto Bay isn't paying for sewage treatment.

This is all out of whack.

El Camote - 6-13-2007 at 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tripledigitken

Quote:

Originally posted by grover

Quote:

Originally posted by oldhippie...AT ONE TIME IT WAS ILLEGAL TO DRINK BEER...

And didn't that work out well for us.

Got to admit though, they were pretty snappy dressers.

:lol:

Wait a minute, I recognize Joe Kennedy and Al Capone, but isn't the third one Robert Stack as Elliot Ness? :spingrin:

vandenberg - 6-13-2007 at 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tehag
New estimate for reopening is at ten days from today, Wednesday.

Also in the near future, a 12 dollar launch fee is to be inaugurated.

And they will, most likely, be a lot faster with initiating the fee then they are with the repair. No feet dragging there :lol:

flyfishinPam - 6-13-2007 at 03:47 PM

Here's the Sudcaliforniano's story on this (Spanish):

http://www.oem.com.mx/elsudcaliforniano/notas/n310751.htm

says will be done in ten days...we'll see. does not mention a fee to use the ramp. I think they put that story in to stop a riot but if they start charging locals a riot will happen....they haven't forgotten that the marina was a gift by President Salinas along with the malecon, for the people of Loreto. Now its been taken away...they are well aware of this, its just the beginning of a battle and we will win it!

regarding the raw sewage, I just posted a notice in the News Section
the unpaved streets spewing raw sewage have been deemed a health hazard by the state health department all food vendors are out of business...oh the chamber of commerce meeting tonight ought to be a good one!

[Edited on 6-13-2007 by flyfishinPam]

Paula - 6-14-2007 at 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jerry

i do believe that mexico has the right to do as they please its there country if your a mexico or a citisen of mexico you have the right to vote and change what you can
_______________________________________________________________
Response from Paula (this is the edit-- didn't mean to post inside Jerry's box-- sorry Jerry.)
_________________________________________________________________
Sorry to cut so much of your post Jerry, but this is thr part I wanted to respond to.

Yes, the people of Mexico have a right to vote for the people who promise to act in their best interests, but what happens when the elected officials change their tune after they get elected? Or when an appointed beaurocracy isn't responsive to the needs of the people? It happens all the time, all over. The ramp is an issue on which the local fishermen and the American "guests" are probably very much in agreement. You are right, it isn't our job to tell the Mexicans what to do, but how do you feel about the Americans joining with the local PEOPLE when the government and agencies like API are letting us all down?

[Edited on 6-15-2007 by Paula]

[Edited on 6-15-2007 by Paula]

jerry - 6-15-2007 at 08:57 AM

the process in the usa is impeachment or voting them out or a referendom im sure there are people here who know the mexican process
gringoes who are not able to vote in mexico are not sopost to involve them selves in mexicos politics that mexican law not mine

wilderone - 6-15-2007 at 09:32 AM

ok, Jerry - just sit there and be an observer and segregate yourself from your community and let everyone else fight your battles for you. You seem to have a lot of fears.

elizabeth - 6-15-2007 at 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jerry
the process in the usa is impeachment or voting them out or a referendom im sure there are people here who know the mexican process
gringoes who are not able to vote in mexico are not sopost to involve them selves in mexicos politics that mexican law not mine

The process in the US is speaking out about issues of concern, as well as voting. But, as to Mexico, just how is speaking out about, say, an environmental issue in Mexico involving yourself in Mexico's politics? If I help a local Mexican organization that is organized to stop the long line slaughter of turtles, is that involving myself in Mexican politics? Seems to me that environmental/ocean health issues do not stop at borders. What happens in the Sea of Cortez affects the Pacific Ocean which does not stop at the Mexican border.

Don Alley - 6-15-2007 at 01:37 PM

Mexico has this great excuse for people who just don't want to get involved. "It's against Mexican law."

I've been to a few meetings on environmental and land use politics, and often participation by expats is encouraged. Our local municipal president has greeted us at the door with a smile and a handshake.

Don't contribute to political candidates or try to directly influence elections. But you may speak your mind to those that are elected. And there are some that listen.

Paula - 6-15-2007 at 02:06 PM

... and speaking of the ramp...

I just had a look at the progress, and it looks good. The under water part is in-- pored, or placed or dropped-- however they do these things :dudette:

Looks solid, it's nice and wide, has a nice slope, an appears to go out far enough. Lots of equipment there, and at least 4 men working during siesta.

I wouldn,t be surprised to see it ready for the tournament on the 23rd, but I'm not promising to eat any live fish...

elizabeth - 6-15-2007 at 02:08 PM

Thanks Don, I thought those were probably the distinctions to be made...I get pretty tired of the "if you're not a Mexican citizen you have no right to speak" attitude.

Now back to the ramp...what does it look like today?

[Edited on 6-15-2007 by elizabeth]

Cypress - 6-15-2007 at 02:47 PM

elizabeth, All that BS about not being able to "speak" if you are'nt in one ethnic group or another is old and moldy. Comes under the heading of "moral relativity". And that will lead you into one worm hole after another. :lol:

backninedan - 6-15-2007 at 04:08 PM

Thanks for the info Paula. I was down at the ramp earlier today and they didnt have the ramp poured yet. That was fast.... I talked to one of the worker last night and he is saying 8 more days. Wonder if he will eat a sardine if its not done by then??

tuna stick - 6-16-2007 at 12:43 PM

At the marina this morning,one of the workers said two weeks.

comitan - 6-16-2007 at 01:11 PM

The poured concrete should have 14 to 21 days to cure.

backninedan - 6-16-2007 at 02:04 PM

If it takes that long to cure, the upcoming three tournaments are going to be a nightmare. 50 to 60 boats for the governors tourny alone. I don't think the larger boats can beach launch, so that will eliminate them unless they want to haul to puerto escondido to launch and pay the 280 peso launch fee. It will be interesting for sure.

Don Alley - 6-16-2007 at 05:55 PM

Saturday, 6 PM:

flyfishinPam - 6-16-2007 at 06:41 PM

HI there,

Yesterday morning when putting clients on their boats they wre pouring the concrete at teh water line. So I was pleasantly surprised at the progress. But this morning when finishing up loading boats I saw one of the workers walking on the concrete at the water line and it was still wet as his foolprints were evident. Isn't there a concrete they should use that dries under the water? I never knew that kind of stuff existed until some Tripui people told me that's what they used. So is this concrete OK and its still curing or did they screw up? I'm not a construction person so don't know just curious.

DENNIS - 6-16-2007 at 06:55 PM

It cures slowly but thoroughly under water. On dry land, calcium chloride can be added to the mix to accelerate drying. It would probably work under water as well.

flyfishinPam - 6-16-2007 at 06:58 PM

OK it cures slowly but do you know how long it takes. 14-21 days like comitan posted? is that regular cement or the special kind? knowing this helps me plan our busy season protocols. thanks

Diver - 6-16-2007 at 07:10 PM

Even if they use regular cement, it should be sufficiently cured within a week to allow launching use. Small boats could probably use it after a few days. This is assuming the ramp was poured on a fairly stable substrate with a minimum thickness of 5" and 3000 psi mix.

We typically pour 3500 psi concrete, 4" thick for residential driveways and park on them after a week at most. Never had a problem.
Concrete achieves a large percentage of it's strength from curing within the first week. Remaining strength is gained more slowly with increasing cure time.

I'm sure in your area it will depend on who is the resident genious.
Maybe 3 days in Mexico ???
.

jerry - 6-16-2007 at 09:28 PM

Wilderone i havent asked anyone for anything no one is fighting any battles for me i sure have not segrated my self from my comunity and who the hell are you?? im using my real name you know where im at whats yours?? whats your comunity?? you guess wrong last time about me being a government employee if you dont like my view stuff it where the sun dont shine come on put it out there we will see whos afraid
you are the defanition of JR chicken coopers( cluck on) whats your comunity
thers been a lot of info put out here
Elizabeth and everyone here can do exactly as they choose im not making up anyones mind
because i dont agree with you is my perogative but i wont be belittled or bulled by anyone much less by a faceless gutless wounder

Don Alley - 6-17-2007 at 06:42 AM

Sunday morning, 7:00 AM. Low tide (approx -1.30).

Don Alley - 6-17-2007 at 06:45 AM

The new concrete:

Bajabus - 6-17-2007 at 07:00 AM

Maybe it's just the photo but that does not look like a properly prepared substrate with a min. 5 inches of concrete... :?:

backninedan - 6-17-2007 at 09:09 AM

Bus, it is about 5" thick, with lots of re-bar. I don"t know if thats properly prepaired or not.

Just got back from the marina and they are going at it hard. The remaining half of the ramp is almost stripped of the old concrete. They have been working 7 days a week in 100 degree heat, if it doesn't get finished by tourny time, it sure isnt the workers fault.

Cypress - 6-17-2007 at 09:20 AM

Jeez! A 20'x50' slab on a slight incline? Factor in the tide etc. Who the heck is running the operation? :?:

They should have been finished and gone in 4 days at the max. :biggrin:

backninedan - 6-17-2007 at 10:55 AM

4 days Idaho time is about two weeks here, mas o menos. It's kinda like dog years.

[Edited on 6-17-2007 by backninedan]

Cypress - 6-17-2007 at 11:03 AM

backninedan, :biggrin:

Diver - 6-17-2007 at 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by backninedan
..... It's kinda like dog years.

bajalou - 6-17-2007 at 11:27 AM

Guess they don't have a unlimited supply of illegals to do all the heavy hand work.

flyfishinPam - 6-18-2007 at 07:58 AM

Hi there,

so any reasonable assesment on when this thing appears that it will be useable? I know nada about construction so asking because this affects how we need to work this season. My Captain Fidel commented that the old ramp used large concrete forms placed at the waterline which went below the waterline. He is concerned that this poured concrete will end up breaking at the base where the concrete meets the soil, over time and that will be difficult for boats launching. Any opinions here on that? I think they're working fairly quickly on this but something will go wrong, it always does here, what that will be is anyone's guess. Remember all the streets in town were supposed to be completed in May! Now it looks as though they have at least 6 months work ahead of them or more at the rate they're moving on it.

Beach launching is working out well for the pangas. How are the other larger boats doing?

The first tournament is Saturday, this ramp won't be ready by then. The second is the Vagabundos tournament which I think is the first weekend in July, and the thirs is the Fishing for the Mission tournament which is on the 12th,13th and 14th. Then there's all those local and visiting boats that need to also accommodate. Wonder how this is effecting evaryone's fishing trips and expenses destined for vacations. That is $30 per boat per day that won't be spent on a local taco stand or gift shop, etc.

Diver - 6-18-2007 at 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Don Alley
The new concrete:

Pam,
If this is the lower section and they are planning to pour uphill from there, they may eventually have a problem at the joint. They should have left rebar sticking out of the first pour to connect to the second and third pours, etc.
if the tidal action begins to undermine the lower slab, things will get interesting.
It should last a few years or until the next big storm !

Timeframe ?? Come'on, you're in Baja.
It could theoretically all be poured within 2 days and useable within a few days after that; theoretically !

.

Don Alley - 6-18-2007 at 08:15 AM

These guys had a little trouble getting through the loose gravel higher on the beach, it looked like no 4x4.

DSC_0021.jpg - 27kB

Don Alley - 6-18-2007 at 08:16 AM

Back just a little more. And I think these Pacific plate aluminum boats are light, probably much easier to beach launch than a big glass boat.

[Edited on 6-18-2007 by Don Alley]

DSC_0022.jpg - 32kB

backninedan - 6-18-2007 at 08:47 AM

My 22 foot tin boat beach launches just fine (with 4X4). Pam, I talked to a vacationer yesterday down at the loading dock and he was pretty peeed at not having any notice on the ramp repair. He said it had ruined his trip and he wouldn't be coming back to Loreto again.

Not saying he is justified or not, just giving his reaction to the re-build.

Capt. George - 6-18-2007 at 09:12 AM

and the pueblo loses out big time. What a shame. I can't believe it's stupidity, no one running a town could possibly be this stupid. It has to be arrogance and a sheer disregard for anything sensible.

there are lots of other places besides Loreto, this could cost a lot of people, an awful lot of business. What a disgrace. I ran a small business n a tourist community, ya only got so much time to make your bread. Well, we know the local politicos will still get there checks, theyoughta be locked up instead!

Mexitron - 6-18-2007 at 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
It cures slowly but thoroughly under water. On dry land, calcium chloride can be added to the mix to accelerate drying. It would probably work under water as well.

Except that calcium chloride will accelerate the degradation of the rebar...

DENNIS - 6-18-2007 at 02:50 PM

Use Mexican calcium chloride. Dog years. Remember?
There should be a footing at the edge of the slab, where it ends. Lots of weight at the edge is like a lever. It would probably be the first part to show disintegration.

LaTijereta - 6-18-2007 at 04:04 PM

Originally posted by Don Alley
The new concrete:

The concrete looks a little rough at the bottom? Is that the real finish?

kellychapman - 6-18-2007 at 04:14 PM

well long time no posts.....as a result of my computor getting some tequilla in it late one night while posting.....

has taken 7 months to get the problem fixed.....just like the roads in Loreto....the reason why I left for awhile....it sucks bigtime and now I see they have torn up the marina...for goodness sakes what on earth where they thinking????? I am embarressed to see the way they have done our beautiful town and had to leave until the streets are completed because I cannot stand all the dirt filled with crap that blows around...hope it gets completed soon so life can get back to normal in beautiful Loreto.....

flyfishinPam - 6-18-2007 at 04:15 PM

The bottom Don showed is really the bottom. That concrete was poured on Saturday morning as I send off the boats. Yesterday (Sunday) as I sent the boats one of the workers was walking at the base and those holes are his footprints. I think it looks like shoddy work but I know nada about construction. There's no footing at the bottom of that slab there's rebar but its poured directly over the soil. Doesn't the salt affect the concrete like some of the older buildings in town that once used beach sand? Maybe this is a special cement that doesn't do that.

Yes George the timing on this is beyond stoopid. See some of my comments at the first part of this thread, I think it is an effort to anger average citizens here to the point of vacating and making room for the rich beautiful people and their yachts, jets and fancy cars. Us average working people are taking up their prime space so they want us out but they will leave the very poor around so they can have their toilets cleaned then they'll be shipped to some worker encampment out of town until their next day's work.

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