BajaNomad - Ensenada Immigration office scam allert

Ensenada Immigration office scam allert

DENNIS - 7-19-2007 at 04:59 PM

Today, my friend who came down from the states, went to the Ensenada immigration office to get an FMT. He was told by the officer at the desk that he would have to return to Tijuana for this document.
My buddy said, he heard he could get it here and was surprised by his stated regulation.
Officer told him that he could avoid the troublesome trip for a fee of fifty pesos paid to an independent agent in a small office on the outside of the same building.
That office is a recycled broom closet, occupied by Carlos Victoria, who facilitates immigration applications.
My friend went to Carlos...Carlos typed the application and was paid his fee of fifty pesos.
He took his completed application back into the office and payed the real fee for the document.

Now.....Isn't that nice?

Less Than Five Bucks ?

MrBillM - 7-19-2007 at 05:16 PM

It sounds reasonable to me.

DENNIS - 7-19-2007 at 05:19 PM

Bend over MrBill. You seem to have a way of accepting things like this.
From you, I'm surprised.

The Gull - 7-19-2007 at 05:21 PM

Next time your friend can bring a pen and save the $4.63.

DENNIS - 7-19-2007 at 05:23 PM

Ya'know Gull........... Sometimes you just make no sense at all.

bancoduo - 7-19-2007 at 05:26 PM

That officer must have been very old. Only 50 pesos, poor guy must have alzheimer's. :lol:

The Gull - 7-19-2007 at 05:31 PM

I was proud of a perfect record of never making sense. What is the objective anyway? Where did I go wrong?

Old adage: a fool and his money are quickly parted.

The FMT stop at the border at SY takes minutes. There is no practical enforcement of the FMT obligation until the checkpoint at GN, where anyone can obtain the FMT to go further south.

I'm sure there is some sense to getting an FMT in Ensenada, but being without sense, I've never done it and wouldn't suggest it.

Big plus, your warning adds to the need to stay away from Ensenada. Thank you.

DENNIS - 7-19-2007 at 05:33 PM

You didn't listen. He sent him to an outside agent who I'm sure was kicking back but, I thought those days of xxxxxxxxxxx low grade rip-offs were over. Who here pays a bribe for an FMT any more?

[Edited on 7-20-2007 by Hose A]

Roberto - 7-19-2007 at 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
You didn't listen. He sent him to an outside agent who I'm sure was kicking back but, I thought those days of xxxxxxxxxxx low grade rip-offs were over. Who here pays a bribe for an FMT any more?

Apparently, your friend does! :lol:

Sorry, coudn't resist.

[Edited on 7-20-2007 by Hose A]

The Gull - 7-19-2007 at 05:49 PM

Quote:

We must be playing "stump the dummy" RIGHT?

First, I put my ear to the computer and listened very closely. Bummer, nothing. I did listen - heard nothing.

Second, it was clear from your first post that a third party was involved. The idea that a kickback is involved in a $4.63 transaction is an interesting perspective. A low grade, C/S ripoff is a good term for something so cheap, perhaps you could consult with Carlos Victoria and suggest a less pedestrian fee. You know something that might secure a better life for him.

Third, did either your buddy or the government guy speak the other's language? Couldn't have been any misunderstanding, right?

Fourth, in answer to your question..."Who here pays a bribe for an FMT any more?" If this isn't a trick question, my first quess would be - your buddy. Did I get that right?

Fifth, if he really is your buddy why did you allow this to happen to him?

[Edited on 7-20-2007 by Hose A]

flyfishinPam - 7-19-2007 at 05:49 PM

HI there,

Doesn't sound like a rip off to me but maybe I'm not getting the full story. For 50 pesos his forms were filled out and paperwork submitted to immigration where the fee for the FM was paid and document received? What's wrong with that?

In La Paz at the Secretaria de Relaciones Exteriores, there are many little offices like this who will fill out your forms (properly) and make the extensive photocopies you need to get your Mexican passport or naturalizacion document or your visa. They charge a fee for their service and I am very thankful they're there and I don't have to fill out forms then later find out they were incorrectly filled in, run all over hell for photocopies and photos, etc. Five bucks sounds like a deal.

The Gull - 7-19-2007 at 05:53 PM

Pam, It is an FMT. It has maybe five or six elements of information requested on one side of a 5x8 piece of paper. That and a driver's license does it.

The help you are talking about is for FM-2 and FM-3 and can be quite beneficial for a small fee.

bancoduo - 7-19-2007 at 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Gull

Old adage: a fool and his money are quickly parted.

Take care amigo. :lol:

DENNIS - 7-19-2007 at 05:59 PM

Yeah Gull..........
Thats the point. He got caught up in an old bribe structure which I thought belonged to the 20th century.
I guess it shows that nothing in this regard has changed. They're still a bunch of thieving, opportunists who work with the approval of the government.
Oh yeah....They are the government.

Tell you what gull........ Don't ever apologize to me for these xxxxxxx crap. When they do it to your brother, they do it to you, if you can understand that concept. Pull your head out of your digestive track and join us.
We're the one's with the SELF-RESPECT look on our faces.

[Edited on 7-20-2007 by Hose A]

DENNIS - 7-19-2007 at 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by flyfishinPam
For 50 pesos his forms were filled out and paperwork submitted to immigration where the fee for the FM was paid and document received? What's wrong with that?

It's an FMT. The paperwork, all thirty words of it, is filled in by the applicant.
The point is, he was sent to an outside agent to accomplish this.
You people who justify this are as much of the problem as the thieiving IMN agents. You've been kissing butt here so long that you've lost sight of wrong or right. It tells me you've been paying way too much for your Baja independence.
Is self respect the trade-off for dealing with the government?
Or, do you model citizens have any of that left?

bahiamia - 7-19-2007 at 06:15 PM

Actually an FMT/Tourist Visa is now supposed to be obtained at a point of entry. Ensenada is a port, and point of entry for boats. For the rest of us we're supposed to get it at the border crossings (Tijuana, Tectate, etc...).

Was with a friend about a year ago at the Migracion office in Ensenada where they pointed out that the FMT should have been taken care of in Tijuana where we crossed. There was an additional fee charged because of that and for another form and processing. There was a small office set up next to Migracion and they had the forms and such.

danaeb - 7-19-2007 at 06:21 PM

bahiamia - you must be one of those 'model citizens'. :biggrin:

DENNIS - 7-19-2007 at 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bahiamia
Actually an FMT/Tourist Visa is now supposed to be obtained at a point of entry. Ensenada is a port, and point of entry for boats. For the rest of us we're supposed to get it at the border crossings (Tijuana, Tectate, etc...).

Was with a friend about a year ago at the Migracion office in Ensenada where they pointed out that the FMT should have been taken care of in Tijuana where we crossed. There was an additional fee charged because of that and for another form and processing. There was a small office set up next to Migracion and they had the forms and such.

Ensenada is in the free zone. No FMT required. They issue FMTs in Ensenada, most often with some snarly crap but without financial coercion.
This time, there was. No pay - no FMT.
So, keep supporting this practice. It will make you more welcome in Mexico, your gracious host.

bahiamia - 7-19-2007 at 06:33 PM

If your friend was only going to Ensenada and for less than 72 hours, then why did he want to apply for an FMT?

They issue FMT's in Ensenada, they need to because it is a port of entry for boats. Yes, you used to be able to go there and get them if traveling by car too but they made changes to that policy. They say you're now supposed to get them at a border crossing.

[Edited on 7-20-2007 by bahiamia]

Mango - 7-19-2007 at 06:36 PM

I still don't see whats so hard about getting the FMT at the point of entry, i.e. the border.

While Ensenada is in the Free Zone, it's not where I'd recommend getting the FMT. There are a lot of towns and cities in the "Free Zone", but you can't just get an FMT anywhere.

I once worked with a guy that would make the most confusing and demanding orders when we would go out to eat for lunch. Toasted bun, no mayo, extra pickles, two slices of cheese, fruit instead of fries... etc.. etc..

He would then always complain that he got his food last and that they screwed up his order because they got 1 detail out of 50 wrong.
:?:

You can have it your way.. but don't expect things to go as smoothly, quickly, and cheaply. If your friend wants to be treated like everyone else, I'd advise him to get his FMT at the border like everyone else, otherwise if he wants his FMT with extra cheese... it just might cost $.30 more.

DENNIS - 7-19-2007 at 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bahiamia
If your friend was only going to Ensenada and for less than 72 hours, then why did he want to apply for an FMT? Those who need an FMT for their travels, should get one at a point of entry.

[Edited on 7-20-2007 by bahiamia]

He's going south.
It's not 72 hours anymore. It's one week. Look it up while you're looking everything else you don't know.

bahiamia - 7-19-2007 at 06:52 PM

Ok, then he's not traveling only within the "Free Zone". Just merely passing through the free zone doesn't mean that you don't need an FMT. If you're driving a vehicle in Mexico it is strongly suggested you get FMT even if your actual travel destinations don't require them. That's incase you are in an accident or such. Don't appreciate the personal slam by the way. I don't look things up...I pass along things from personal experience. I was there when it occured to a friend so I felt I should pass that along.

I will, the next time I am Ensenada, go and talk with the officals there and hopefully they can give me some documentation on their policies to get it right from the horse's mouth that will clear up any confusion or speculation.

[Edited on 7-20-2007 by bahiamia]

Dennis is making a point.

Lee - 7-19-2007 at 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
They're still a bunch of thieving, opportunists who work with the approval of the government.
Oh yeah....They are the government.

Tell you what gull........ Don't ever apologize to me for these A-hole's crap. When they do it to your brother, they do it to you, if you can understand that concept..... We're the one's with the SELF-RESPECT look on our faces.

Whoa, Dennis. What you're suggesting might be lost on this crowd. Self-respect? Right and wrong? 20th century corruption?

I recognize the point Dennis is making but I, too, like others here, won't get worked up. If I was at the effect of corruption, say, a shake-down, then I might start sqawking. In MX, they get you coming and going.

Also, on a bigger level, I doubt any Mexicans will understand the point being made. The logic might be: well, for 50 pesos, he didn't have to go back to the border, no? Or, the 50 pesos put food on the table for the FM clerk who had the office in the closet.

There is a higher level, by Northern standards, being violated here. On the other hand, this is MX and that's how things are being done today. Maybe not tomorrow, but every now and then, someone is singled out.

The principle is noted here, Dennis, and sometimes it's good to let off steam.

:cool:

flyfishinPam - 7-19-2007 at 07:11 PM

Sorry didn't realize it was a tourism visa and not an FM. What I described was mexican passport and other mexico related documents. I know its wrong but if you're stuck between a rock and a hard place...50 pesos vs a 3 hour round trip drive...I'd pay the five bucks just out of convienence, two packs of cigarettes, a six pack, two cappuccinos to go...five bucks no es mucho.

DENNIS - 7-19-2007 at 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bahiamia
I will, the next time I am Ensenada, go and talk with the officals there and hopefully they can give me some documentation on their policies to get it right from the horse's mouth that will clear up any confusion or speculation.

[Edited on 7-20-2007 by bahiamia]

Yeah....HAHAHAHAHA.. you do..HAHAHAHAHA..that.

DENNIS - 7-19-2007 at 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by grover

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS... Is self respect the trade-off for dealing with the government?...

You're asking like you don't know.

He should have stood on principle and returned to Tijuana. Would've cost him another 20 bucks in gas, tolls, vehicle wear, time... Maybe 20 wouldn't quite cover it.

You're complaining about something I think one of the most endearing things about Mexico: the little guy still has access to influence. And at a downright reasonable cost.

No. You don't get it. Neither does Pam. Had I been there with him, I would have asked the officer to call the main office in Tijuana for clarification. He wouldn't so but, I would have insisted. I would also insist on speaking to his superior on site. He would give me his name and I would note the time of day with his pen and paper. I would do this in a calm manner. He would issue the document as is his job and there would be no bribery, mordida or nonsense involved.
The little xxxxxxxx only has the power that we give him.
None from me........You give him all he needs.

[Edited on 7-20-2007 by Hose A]

comitan - 7-19-2007 at 07:57 PM

I'm sorry Dennis but the immigration official has the power.....................................If you think he doesn't just butt heads and see where you end up.

shari - 7-19-2007 at 08:03 PM

Same thing happened to my brother, told we had to go back to point of entry at TJ...but he said we could pay the fine there and get one too....so the lady in the broom closed wrote up the "ticket" sighting the infraction and we paid the 5 bucks happy not to have to go back as Guerrero Negro bank would have been closed when we got there too....so as I said, they were happy to pay the fine for ignorance and be on our way!

DENNIS - 7-19-2007 at 08:04 PM

That's OK, comitan. Just bend over in the line up with the rest of'em, pants down to the ankles and head against the wall and tell them how much you love Mexico. When you look at yourself in the mirror from that time on, you can tell yourself, " They had the power so, it was worth it. "

comitan - 7-19-2007 at 08:15 PM

Dennis

I think you have gone a Little overboard, a lot of us have said its better to be HUMBLE when dealing with immigration, I can tell you first hand it works I have not furnished forms and they have made them out for me, they don't do that for everyone. Also I have had them show up at my house for mistakes I have made in forms and helped me correct them. I am proud that I can be a little humble and gain respect!

Mango - 7-19-2007 at 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
That's OK, comitan. Just bend over in the line up with the rest of'em, pants down to the ankles and head against the wall and tell them how much you love Mexico. When you look at yourself in the mirror from that time on, you can tell yourself, " They had the power so, it was worth it. "

Here you are "bending over" in the stolen car/dog thread...

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
I also take my dog everywhere I go but, she wouldn't be a deterrent. From now on, I'll pay the parking lot guards [ I guess that's what they are ] to stand by my truck while I'm in the store. I don't care what it will cost, two or three bucks I figure. I couldn't stand to go through what that Rosarito couple is going through now.

The fact of the matter is... Mexico is a foreign country. As a foreign country it has different customs, norms, and ways of doing things. If you don't like it, I suggest you either learn to deal with it or stay in the USA. You can always visit France instead of Mexico if you can't accept the culture as it is in Mexico.

Do I pay the parking attendant a few pesos when I park in Mexcio? Sure I do. Do I pay anyone in the USA? No. Do I ask the see my hotel room first in Mexico? Yep; but, in the USA I just take the room I get. I drink the tap water in the USA and flush my TP here too. Get the picture? Welcome to Mexico, it's not the USA.

Justified or not, to avoid backtracking to the place I should have gotten my FMT in the first place, I'd pay my $5 and be wiser the second time. I suggest the only real course of action is to take it as a lesson learned and get your FMT at the border next time.

It's not even worth the time to wig out about it. I am not sure why you are so insistent as to attack people that follow the rules and have learned to accept the culture in Mexico the way that it is. I thank you for the heads up about the office in Ensenada; but, your attacks on the people here that think different than you are ridiculous.

Don't want to accept the Mexican culture for what it is? Fine. Go ahead and flush all the TP you want, just see what you get back in return.

Bedman - 7-20-2007 at 12:52 AM

Mango, you may be fairly new here, but I like your style. Beat me to the punch on Dennis. You can ride with me anytime.

Grover, dumb you are not. Being able to see the BIG picture and the little details is Ohhh so important.

Gull,

First :lol:

Second

Third

Fourth

Fifth

Too Funny!!

Mia, a wise and sage individual that has lived in Baja a life time and has a plethora of penninsular information (I made that word up) and a Great website too.

Roberto, Your a Class act too. (inside joke folks, sorry)

AND THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN IS......

daneab, .......your just in over your head. You might not want to throw gas on a fire when you don't know how to turn on the water.

Dennis, you seem to have the ability to take a crap and get it all over yourself.

Bedman

Iflyfish - 7-20-2007 at 01:18 AM

I am glad to be clear about this issue. We purchased fishing licenses in Ensenada but the other papers at the border. Since Ensenada is the last town in the "Free Zone" I might have made the mistake of trying to kill two birds with one stone by doing it all in Ensenada. To my way of thinking, that would make sense. However, my way of thinking is not Mexican.

It is not clear to me that what was paid was a bribe. It may have been a fee for a service provided to those who through ignorance did not get their papers where they should have gotten them. I have just learned from Mango that I have been blithely walking past the guy who has been watching my vehicle for me in the parking lot of the grocery stores without giving him a tip. I routinely tip the bag boy/girl in the USofA who carries my bags to my car. Da......just out of touch in some ways I guess. They have all been very polite to me, I must exude ignorance. I can now see the shaking heads as I drive away in my palacial motor home that they have been watching while I was in the store. We live and hopefully learn I guess.

If it is indeed Mordida, then what's new? Mordida is not dead and one has to find ways to deal with it. It is dying but it ain't dead yet. We all are in the same boat in regard to it. This system evolved over millennia to deal with the economics of being an oppressed people. A little cubby hole, closet or niche was the only way to survive and that then became the inherited right of patrimony for the "position" held. To the average Mexican, this system is as much a part of life as throwing the paper into the can beside the toilet. Most third world countries are like this. Read VS Naipol on his trip to India. a nation of little niches.

I look forward to the time, though I doubt it will be in my life time, when Mexico no longer is held in the grip of the Black Hand. As long as poverty exists to the level that it does, then it will continue to flourish.

As to your indignation and wish for others to share that with you. I doubt that you will get many on board that train. There is a necessary adaptation that one must make to living in a foreign country and that adaptation takes time and is often frustrating to the point of madness. We all at some time have raged against the system. It is probably good to go through that catharsis in order to purge our system of its frustration. There are many Norte Americano’s that I have met in Mexico who make this sort of outrage their reason de arte. This colors all of their experience as they daily arm themselves against the inevitable incompetence, greed, sloth, chinga and graft that they will run into on any day in Mexico. Eric Berne, M.D. described the game as "Ain't it Awful" and it is easy to play. A place like Mexico offers endless opportunity. I too have played it. I noticed however that that by playing that particular game I had to hold onto anger and indignation in order to play. This use of my time, energy and emotions interfered with my appreciation, wonder and joy. I have read many of your posts and have seen your own sensitivity, joy and wonder. We all have been frustrated by these sorts of experiences. I think others on this post have been trying to share with you their way of dealing with the issues you have addressed. There is much wisdom here if we don’t talk past each other.

I wrote on another forum a description of the process of obtaining necessary permits in Mexico. I recommended that they purchase a copy of "There is a Word for It in Mexico" and to read it while standing in line to see if they could identify various transactions that were occurring in front of them. I made this suggestion as it provides another way to structure time while engaged in processes and procedures that would seem to our Norte mind could be handled in milliseconds while we while away hours in multiple lines to accomplish a single task.

Iflyfish

What irony. What would other Nomads think???

Sharksbaja - 7-20-2007 at 02:06 AM

As much noise that is heard from as many Nomads it amazes me how easy it has become for some to cave. I got lamblasted a while back for exactly what some here talk about.

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=18168#pid1570...

It was a spontaneous decision based on my time vs ?? or just 20 bucks, or go to the police station and take my chances..

Yes , as an American I am part of the problem. After all it does take two to tango when it comes to mordida when you get pulled over or are subject to pay diferent fees.

Look, if you get the feeling you're getting ripped off, and not just paying a familiar regular token duty then hell yes I understand Dennis. I'd be peeed as well. We need consistency damn it!
btw, they have been pulling fast ones there on unsuspecting visitors for a long time. The broom closet thing is new.

bahiamia - 7-20-2007 at 03:29 AM

The requirement is now that alll FMT's need to be obtained at a border crossing. If you don't do it, you are in violation of that requirement. Yes, there is a fee to process it in Ensenada since by their regulations you should have already obtained one before you got there. That is how they explained it to us when it happened to a friend.

The Gull - 7-20-2007 at 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Yeah Gull..........
Thats the point. He got caught up in an old bribe structure which I thought belonged to the 20th century.
I guess it shows that nothing in this regard has changed. They're still a bunch of thieving, opportunists who work with the approval of the government.
Oh yeah....They are the government.

Tell you what gull........ Don't ever apologize to me for these xxxxxxx crap. When they do it to your brother, they do it to you, if you can understand that concept. Pull your head out of your digestive track and join us.
We're the one's with the SELF-RESPECT look on our faces.

[Edited on 7-20-2007 by Hose A]

Dennis,

Your penchant for exaggeration in this and other "issues" in Baja are well established. You have insulted a number of people posting on this string. If you are so "in" to doing the right thing all the time - what gives you the right to attack people with a different viewpoint. At a minimum, you owe Mia an apology, a public one.

The line for the hypocrits starts over by the little broom closet. To get out of line costs $4.63.

Your actions on this string got you censored by big brother. Congrats on stepping over that line, as well.

If you don't like the "oppressive" nature of the Mexican government asking for visitors following the established visa procedures by getting their papers at the border, move to a perfect country of your choice. That will save you the stress of ranting and raging on this site.

I did not apologize for the activity you so incompetantly described. I do not have a brother. I do not need amateur tutorials on Baja as I have been active in the area since 1969 and have forgotten more than you will ever learn. I do not want to join "us" since it looks like your "us" is "you, only". If your face had Self Respect on it, could there be room for "respect for others"? Are you getting the message?

Russ - 7-20-2007 at 06:57 AM

Gull, Your writing as always a pleasure to read. But me tinkx that DENNIS got his desired response. I know he would love dealing with PROFEPA and their Environmental N-zis.

latortugaguera - 7-20-2007 at 07:16 AM

I made the same mistake the first time I came to Baja. The immigration official was wonderful; he offered to pay for the fine. What better service than that.
I love Mexico

The Gull - 7-20-2007 at 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Russ
Gull, Your writing as always a pleasure to read. But me tinkx that DENNIS got his desired response. I know he would love dealing with PROFEPA and their Environmental N-zis.

Thanks Russ, but something tells me with the 'tude expressed, Dennis is going to get what he "deserves" if he hasn't already at various times in his life.

Ya gotta luv that in another posting of his, Dennis espouses paying for parking when there is no requirement. Where is the righteous indignation at having to pay to secure the "goodwill" of a local citizen to watch a car? As I wrote before about the separation of a fool and his money...

It takes a lot of stupid moves or a very small brain to have a chip on one's shoulder the size that would catapult this spew over a legitimate exercise of a Government rule, specially one that accommodates the visiting "ignorant" American scofflaw.

The Mex Government should insist on sending "buddy" from Ensenada to the SY crossing to get his papers. Otherwise, at GN he could be told to turn around and go to SY. I think it is very accommodating that the Mex Gov allows such a second chance to get a simple thing done.

CaboRon - 7-20-2007 at 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by comitan
Dennis

I think you have gone a Little overboard, a lot of us have said its better to be HUMBLE when dealing with immigration, I can tell you first hand it works I have not furnished forms and they have made them out for me, they don't do that for everyone. Also I have had them show up at my house for mistakes I have made in forms and helped me correct them. I am proud that I can be a little humble and gain respect!

A little humble goes a long way... in dealing with life :yes:

CaboRon

David K - 7-20-2007 at 08:02 AM

First off, this ain't Kansas... Mexico often does not do things that make sense or is convenient. Mordida is the name of the game... Perhaps because the pay scale is so low, mordida is the only way to have some nice things?

However, Ensenada and San Felipe have (or had) INM (migra) offices for issuing tourist cars (FM-Ts)... Not always to handle those who don't get them at the border, but should one decide to extend his vacation beyond the 3 days (or 7?) limit OR decide to go further into Mexico than originally planned... and need to get one for that reason.

[Edited on 7-20-2007 by David K]

bajalou - 7-20-2007 at 08:07 AM

San Felipe will NOT issue one so you can start a FM3. The powers at be say that has to be issued at the border.

Surprised ??

MrBillM - 7-20-2007 at 08:49 AM

I'm SURPRISED that Dennis is surprised. It must be as a result of having never read ANYTHING that I've said when the subject of Mordida has come up in the past.

As a lifelong supporter of the (Reasonable) Mordida system, my more recent gripes have been generated when officials Enforced the law and I wasn't given the opportunity to pay the "Little Bite" and go on my way.

Reasonable is the operational word. I've paid that much to have my windshield washed.

Iflyfish - 7-20-2007 at 09:09 AM

latortugaguera

I can see why he offered to pay your fine. I myself and somewhat of an old grizzled fart who can't charm a kid out of their sucker. Life just ain't fair is it?

Iflyfish

Jack Swords - 7-20-2007 at 10:06 AM

A while ago in the past, one could not get an FMT at the Ensenada office. We tried several times only to be told to go back to the border or get them in La Paz (our destination). Rather than driving back we had no problem getting them in Santa Rosalia at the ferry terminal (this before you could get them in GN). It is very easy and painless to do it in San Ysidro and then you have the FMT for your trip. Been asked for immigrant papers on lonely back roads and also when involved in an accident. There are enough things to be concerned about on the long peninsula trip, the FMT should not be one.

Cypress - 7-20-2007 at 10:26 AM

There's no way to defend a rip-off/scam artist. :no:

Why would you even try?

longlegsinlapaz - 7-20-2007 at 10:50 AM

After reading through all dennis' holier than thou BS, his rude & insensitive comments, name calling, foul language & vivid descriptive suggestions, the fact remains...I'm still unclear if this is truly a scam...or a legitimate & legal Government-imposed penalty for having failed to obtain a FMT at the border. I'm leaning towards the latter. I do feel that the Mexican government could make a better effort to inform visitors of what the current requirements are...at the border. But then, it appears it might be more profitable to keep it a secret! :lol:

DanO - 7-20-2007 at 10:57 AM

Five bucks? GMAFB. BTW, the fact that people with POVs and diverse as Mr. Bill, The Gull, Grover and Osprey agree on this (that has to be a first), and that experienced folks like Jack Swords and Bahiamia have empirically based reasons for questioning this "outrage," must count for something.

If you want to be peeed about something, try multiplying that five bucks times a hundred when you are informed by a federal geological survey officer that your house appears to encroach on the federal zone by half a meter (that darn Mexican meter must be longer than the U.S. meter you so carefully used when taking steps to avoid this problem). The issue, can, of course, can be resolved without requiring repeated visits to various government offices, expensive and time-consuming permit applications, etc.

My old man used to say that when you don't have a choice, you don't have a problem. This is clearly one of those situations. Osprey has it dead on as well. Life is way, way too short to get your blood pressure up over something like this. What's next, getting all riled up because the toll booths insist that you pay in only one currency? That the "exchange rate" used by retailers seems to vary a great deal? Whatever.

Loboron - 7-20-2007 at 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz
After reading through all dennis' holier than thou BS, his rude & insensitive comments, name calling, foul language & vivid descriptive suggestions, the fact remains...I'm still unclear if this is truly a scam...or a legitimate & legal Government-imposed penalty for having failed to obtain a FMT at the border. I'm leaning towards the latter. I do feel that the Mexican government could make a better effort to inform visitors of what the current requirements are...at the border. But then, it appears it might be more profitable to keep it a secret! :lol:

Until a year ago, more or less, from the border to Ensenada, this area was exempt from having to have a FMT because of the volume of non-Mexican traffic crossing the border on a daily basis between Ensenada and Tijuana. The Mexican government knew they couldn’t handle the amount of paper work it would involve so they made this area exempt.

Without notice, the office of immigration in Ensenada started imposing “Fines” for failing to obtain your FMT at the border. For example, for years you could arrive here in Ensenada aboard your boat, clear in with Immigration, Port Captain, and Customs and obtain all your required paperwork. Not any longer, if you arrive by boat all persons are now required to have an FMT or you are “Fined” for not having one. They (immigration) know you can’t stop at the border an obtain one in your boat; however they still fine everyone that doesn’t have one when they clear in. We were told by the immigrations officials that they should have gone to the Consul prior to departure and obtain them.

However, if you arrive by boat and plan on staying no more than 72 hours, you’re not required to check in or obtain an FMT. Vessels that depart from California and go none stop to Cabo or other Ports of call can obtain an FMTs upon arrival, and I know of no other port of call in Mexico that charges a fine other than Ensenada.

capn.sharky - 7-20-2007 at 12:18 PM

I was under the impression that you no longer needed an FMT unless you planned to go to Baja Sur. You can get one when you cross the line there if the office is open. Verdad?

longlegsinlapaz - 7-20-2007 at 12:27 PM

Thanks Loboron!

latortugaguera - 7-20-2007 at 12:40 PM

What’s the fuzz all about?!!! I travel to Los Cabos twice a year and never bother to get any paper work. All I take is my Ensenada driver’s license. Only one time a fine Mexican official ask me why I didn’t had the papers, I told him I’m a single woman and I don’t know the rules. He just smiled and let me go. :saint:

DENNIS - 7-20-2007 at 12:44 PM

The fee, 50 pesos, wasn't a fine or penalty or anything like that. It was the fee charged by the independent agent to add your information to the FMT. The agent doesn't work for the government but the document was being denied unless his services were hired.

latortugaguera - 7-20-2007 at 12:46 PM

Hon, next time make a statement, don't pay the 50 pesos and go back to TJ to get the proper paper work. Now! that will solve all bad feelings and you will be able to say, I did the right thing.

DENNIS - 7-20-2007 at 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by capn.sharky
I was under the impression that you no longer needed an FMT unless you planned to go to Baja Sur. You can get one when you cross the line there if the office is open. Verdad?

You are required to have an FMT if you are in the free zone for longer than one week. It used to be 72 hours but that changed at least three years back.
You're required to have an FMT at all times below the free zone. I think that would be below Maneadero.

Now I feel bad!

BMG - 7-20-2007 at 12:50 PM

I missed the office when crossing the border so we proceeded on to Ensenada. I had heard about the 'fine'. We were told the paperwork would have to be filled in at the broom closet out the door. I can't even remember what we paid for that service but up until now, I didn't feel like we were ripped off. All I can say it that it was pretty painless. Now that I have my FM3 and my wife has her dual citizenship, it shouldn't be an issue again.

Cypress - 7-20-2007 at 12:53 PM

BMG! You've pretty much got all your bases covered. :biggrin:

Should we regurgitate

Sharksbaja - 7-20-2007 at 12:58 PM

some vomit from the past, Gull?

Quote:

The line for the hypocrits starts over by the little broom closet.

Talk about hypocrits.

Loboron - 7-20-2007 at 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
The fee, 50 pesos, wasn't a fine or penalty or anything like that. It was the fee charged by the independent agent to add your information to the FMT. The agent doesn't work for the government but the document was being denied unless his services were hired.

In his particular case, he may have paid someone to fill out the form for the FMT. However, the fact is, you pay a 50 pesos "FINE" or in Spanish, "Multo" for not having an FMT upon arrival Ensenada.

bajalou - 7-20-2007 at 01:02 PM

"
You are required to have an FMT if you are in the free zone for longer than one week. It used to be 72 hours but that changed at least three years back.
You're required to have an FMT at all times below the free zone. I think that would be below Maneadero."

My understanding has been that it's 3 days in the so called "Free Zone" without FMT, up to 7 days with a FMT but requires no payment.

Has that been changed?

DENNIS - 7-20-2007 at 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Loboron
In his particular case, he may have paid someone to fill out the form for the FMT. However, the fact is, you pay a 50 pesos "FINE" or in Spanish, "Multo" for not having an FMT upon arrival Ensenada.

The 50 pesos wasn't a multa. It was Carlos' fee. I know Carlos. Carlos won't do anything for nothing. He charged my buddy 50 pesos.

DENNIS - 7-20-2007 at 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajalou

My understanding has been that it's 3 days in the so called "Free Zone" without FMT, up to 7 days with a FMT but requires no payment.

Has that been changed?

I don't know, Lou. These interpretations are really getting convoluted. I can't imagine an FMT that required no payment.

Sharksbaja - 7-20-2007 at 01:10 PM

It seems like you're saying an FMT is needed in Ensenada. Up till about a year ago when they remodeled the office there, it was a snap to get one. Then with the installation of the banercito inside it made it convienient to pay the necessary regular fee. They used to let you pay later elsewhere. Then six months later they made you go to a bank in town and return with receipt before issuing an FMT. The last time I was in there getting one they told me that I'd have to wait 2 hrs for some reason. I says ok. About ten minutes later they called me to the window and bam, had one. They are sooooo inconsistant. There is one hardbutt in there but if you can speak a little Spanish....

DENNIS - 7-20-2007 at 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja
There is one hardbutt in there but if you can speak a little Spanish....

Maybe more than one. I've been in there numerous times and it reminds me of the Soup N-zi episode on Sienfeld. The slightest mistake and, "No soup for you."

Loboron - 7-20-2007 at 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

The 50 pesos wasn't a multa. It was Carlos' fee. I know Carlos. Carlos won't do anything for nothing. He charged my buddy 50 pesos.

Dennis: You need to take a breath and correctly read what I said. Once again, read this slowly.

In this particular case your friend paid Carlos to fill out the form. HOWEVER, there is a FINE, MULTO of 50 pesos for not having an FMT upon arrival the office of Immigration in Ensenada. Perhaps, maybe, he didn't see that extra 50 pesos when he paid for the FMT after he paid Carlos since he was upset.

Dennis here's a great site for you to check out:

http://www.manatee.k12.fl.us/sites/elementary/palmasola/rcom...

Loboron - 7-20-2007 at 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by Loboron
However, the fact is, you pay a 50 pesos "FINE" or in Spanish, "Multo" for not having an FMT upon arrival Ensenada.

I love facts. :biggrin:

Fact: "Multas" must be paid at a bank and you are given a receipt. This does not sound like the case described by Dennis.

Fact: I have arrived in Ensenada many times without an FMT, completely legal.

--Larry

Well Larry, you need to get your facts straight also.

The building where all this took place is call CIS, Central Interagal Services, it houses Immigration, Customs, The Port Captain and a BANK. It's at this Bank window you pay for all the fees and fines.

This is now where you go to make application for almost anything that has to do with immigration or customs in Ensenada, arriving by land or sea.

Each time you've arrive Ensenada without an FMT or FM3 or the likes and stay more than 72 hours or travel south of Ensenada, i.e. San Quentin, you my friend are breaking the law and that's completely Illegal .

Edited for clarification

[Edited on 7-20-2007 by Loboron]

DENNIS - 7-20-2007 at 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Loboron
Each time you've arrive Ensenada without an FMT or FM3 or the likes, you my friend are breaking the law and that's completely Illegal .

Just plain wrong. Day trippers don't need an FMT. Again, you can be in Ensenada for as long as a week without an FMT.
Do all of those cruise ship tourists, stopping in port for the day, have an FMT. I asked and they said no.

DENNIS - 7-20-2007 at 02:17 PM

Quote:

That very well could be but, that wasn't my point. My point was that the Immigration department required my friend to hire an independent, outside contractor to fill out a form which should have been filled out in the IMNS office.

bancoduo - 7-20-2007 at 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Loboron

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by Loboron
However, the fact is, you pay a 50 pesos "FINE" or in Spanish, "Multo" for not having an FMT upon arrival Ensenada.

I love facts. :biggrin:

Well Larry, you need to get your facts straight also.

The building where all this took place is call CIS, it houses Immigration, Customs, The Port Captain and a BANK. It's at this Bank window you pay for all the fees and fines.

Each time you've arrive Ensenada without an FMT or FM3 or the likes, you my friend are breaking the law and that's completely Illegal .

You are referring to vessels as opposed to land arrivals. You should know that with your so called experience.

[Edited on 7-20-2007 by Hose A]

bancoduo

BajaRob - 7-20-2007 at 02:54 PM

Don't you ever get tired of xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Give us a break yahoo .............. xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[Edited on 7-20-2007 by Hose A]

toneart - 7-20-2007 at 04:47 PM

Go easy on Dennis. He is entitled to express his view. He has posted many good and humorous viewpoints in the past, (albeit this is not one of them). I often disagree with his opinions, i.e. immigration, but have found his expressions well articulated and thought provoking. Having said that, Dennis, here's my shot across your bow. Please understand that this is not intended to be a broadside, through the hull.

Dennis,
In my opinion, you are over the top with this one. What is irritating lots of folks here is your vehemence. Obviously you think an injustice has occurred. When I think an injustice has occurred, I too get on my high white horse. When I see that I am a one horse soldier against a whole army in a foreign country, I retreat. I want to save my white horse (and my arse) for another battle, principles intact. Oh, and in my next righteous battle I will be more selective in my opponent. Not like Custer at The Alamo, "Where did all those xxxxxxx indians come from?" kinda thing. :wow:

[Edited on 7-20-2007 by Hose A]

Russ - 7-20-2007 at 05:09 PM

Custer wasn't at the Alamo?

elgatoloco - 7-20-2007 at 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Russ
Custer wasn't at the Alamo?

I don't remember. :biggrin:

DENNIS - 7-20-2007 at 05:17 PM

Thanks Tony ---

All points well taken. I tend to get a little excitable and I appologize to those who got in the way here. Mia, that would be you, for sure.
How did Buffet say it, "Good days and bad days and goin' half mad days," or something like that.
You too, Wiley. Sorry I went after you.

Seems like this thread has given Hose A a full time job. Sorry for that as well.

CaboRon - 7-20-2007 at 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Do all of those cruise ship tourists, stopping in port for the day, have an FMT. I asked and they said no.

Correct, I have docked at Ensenada three different times and there is no FMT required. Or any other paperwork.
CaboRon

Smoke - 7-21-2007 at 10:34 PM

Dennis you need to chill a little, jeeze. If there is ever a caustic contest I'm pickin you. You place a post and then hammer anyone with a different take on the issue.

Iflyfish - 7-22-2007 at 01:26 AM

And you Toneart with the big horn!?

Remember the Alamo!.........or was it the...Little Big Horn!

That was funny!

There was a whole lot of Mexicans at one of those places and they really put a big hurt on those gringos as I recall, though it might have been the Little Big Horn where some other folks got their licks in, or maybe Ensenada at the Harbor Masters, it is all so confusing. I'm going to get my ticket punched before I hit any of those places.

Iflyfish

Iflyfish - 7-22-2007 at 01:31 AM

Come to think of it, both those places give this pale face cause to consider paying the man!

Iflyfishwhennotdodgingbullitsorarrowsorangryborderguardsorofficialswithpensorgunsorcheapmordidasthatarent'tworththehasstleoverormaybehassleoverifIampa rticularlypeeedoffthatdayornotdependingonhowmanyofthesefrustratingthingsIhavehadtodealwithinthisparticularweek

The Gull - 7-22-2007 at 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

The 50 pesos wasn't a multa. It was Carlos' fee. I know Carlos. Carlos won't do anything for nothing. He charged my buddy 50 pesos.

The plot thickens and the logic gets fuzzier. Dennis KNOWS Carlos. Dennis alleges that Dennis' buddy has been ripped off by Carlos. Does anyone else see the number of tangents that this triade could create? What is Dennis' part in the $4.53? This could be a soap opera.

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja
some vomit from the past, Gull?

Quote:

The line for the hypocrits starts over by the little broom closet.

Talk about hypocrits.

Dude, is there a message here or do you want to start up again? I saved the stuff from before and would glady post it for everyone's enjoyment. Fore! Last time you engaged in mudslinging, your wife had to pull you out of the fray. Round two, savior of the world? Fore.

The Gull - 7-22-2007 at 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by latortugaguera
What’s the fuzz all about?!!! I travel to Los Cabos twice a year and never bother to get any paper work. All I take is my Ensenada driver’s license. Only one time a fine Mexican official ask me why I didn’t had the papers, I told him I’m a single woman and I don’t know the rules. He just smiled and let me go. :saint:

How do you come up with these fantasies of yours?

Does Ensenada give only local city driver's licenses?

The Gull - 7-22-2007 at 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Thanks Tony ---

All points well taken. I tend to get a little excitable and I appologize to those who got in the way here. Mia, that would be you, for sure.
How did Buffet say it, "Good days and bad days and goin' half mad days," or something like that.
You too, Wiley. Sorry I went after you.

Seems like this thread has given Hose A a full time job. Sorry for that as well.

Nothing is forgiven. You cannot recall a punch. Once thrown, it is thrown.

BTW, that is a lame apology especially to Mia, you shifted the blame to her for getting in the way, excused your actions as your own fit of emotions and then tried to make light of the repeated offensive remarks to MANY by using something you think Buffett should have said.

Be a man, Dennis, take responsibility.

toneart - 7-22-2007 at 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Iflyfish
And you Toneart with the big horn!?

Remember the Alamo!.........or was it the...Little Big Horn!

That was funny!

There was a whole lot of Mexicans at one of those places and they really put a big hurt on those gringos as I recall, though it might have been the Little Big Horn where some other folks got their licks in, or maybe Ensenada at the Harbor Masters, it is all so confusing. I'm going to get my ticket punched before I hit any of those places.

Iflyfish

I know!...one of my dumber mistaken references. Little Bighorn is indeed, correct. My only excuse is that my mind must have gone to Texas without my permission. Will you all accept a hornet's nest, as in "Where did all those xxxxxxx hornets come from?" Just cut and paste into my errant prior post. :rolleyes:

[Edited on 7-22-2007 by Hose A]

DENNIS - 7-22-2007 at 12:43 PM

Give it a rest, Gull. Like your namesake, what you leave behind is a mess.

Sharksbaja - 7-22-2007 at 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Gull
Dude, is there a message here or do you want to start up again? I saved the stuff from before and would glady post it for everyone's enjoyment. Fore! Last time you engaged in mudslinging, your wife had to pull you out of the fray. Round two, savior of the world? Fore.

ditto dude

DENNIS - 7-27-2007 at 03:48 PM

Quote:

Gadget - 7-27-2007 at 08:51 PM

You guys have all got to be kidding right. Just all working through fits of bordem? A great laugh for sure and all about an FMT. My son used to fill his out when he was 10. :biggrin: