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n8nlee - 8-7-2007 at 07:41 AM

I've been asking a lot of questions lately, so I thought I should contribute something to the board. Here's a story, mostly about diving/spearfishing, that I wrote for some spearfishing forums.

Warning: very long

...While standing around in front of my neighbor's house drinking beer
like the characters do on the animated show 'Hank Hill' (I would be
Kahn the Laotian), one guy (Bill) mentioned that he had a little
house in baja sur. It took all of 3 minutes to decide on a trip for
the Memorial day weekend. One of the neighbors (he'd be Hank)
wanted to try spearfishing and he volunteered to drive, so we warmly
included him. I invited a recently out of work buddy (think
Boomhauer but not as easy to understand).

Uneventful albeit long drive but we get to the little place. Bill's
humble shack turned into a huge palapa with running water and
electricty that has a permanent 5th wheel under it. There was
enough room for a 30' boat after parking the truck and still had
space for a sitting area. Out came the industrial air movers but
they weren't really needed as the property sat high over the beach
and we had a constant breeze. Boomhauer couldn't sit any longer
(mostly because he had driven seven hours to get to my house and he
had to sit for almost twice that long in the cramped backseat of
Hank's truck. He gets his gear ready for a shore dive because the
diving birds and the bluewater just made him twitch and shake like a
crackhead with withdrawls being electricuted. His excitement and me
forgetting the conditioner caused him to rip one of his 3 suits, but
that didn't stop ol' Boomhauer from going. He comes back after a
hour or so and says he saw some 30# roosterfish as well as other
shallow species. We meet our guide for the next three days, have
dinner and go to sleep.

Our pangero comes too early for our tastes and send him home for
another hour. We finally meet him and launch. After some confusion
(Pangero took us to make bait for the day) we head off to the first
dive spot. Nothing spectacular here. We shoot some pargo, see some
cabrilla and snack on some scallops. We see birds diving in the
distance and decide to chase them. This proved to be fruitless as
the fish were constantly moving. Maybe we should've made more bait
and tried chumming them. After giving up on the bluewater stuff
(turned out to be big bonito) we anchor on a high spot about a mile
off an island. The water is really murky but I see 3 very nice YT
swim by quickly. In the murk and the shock of seeing them so
shallow I didn't get a shot off. I come up screaming at
Boomhauer "hey you redneck, dere feeesh here..." (read with a
Laotion accent). We end up with 6 YT (me with two and Boomhauer got
four). Here's the unhappy ending to the first day. I lost my 110cm
aimrite railgun with Omer reel. With the reel, the gun is not
entirely positive. I shot about a 40# YT and it looked like it was
dead. I leave my gun (was using a floatline)to get the fish and
just as I get to it, the sucker comes to life and takes off with me
in tow. It takes another 5 min. to subdue him. By the time I
remembered that I left my gun, the current had taken it. So if
anyone finds a 110cm aimrite and an Omer reel with pink line in the
Sea please let me know. We spend too much time helping the Pangero
filet fish. We vow to only shoot a few big fish the next day.

The pangero comes an hour later this day but it was still too early
for us. The poor guy goes home (4 houses away) for a half hour and
we get going by about 7am. We're going further out to another high
spot where he knows of large grouper and pargo. The ride out was
rough enough to pound the chit out of us...so Boomhauer and I suit
up and swim downcurrent to find a nice little cove in which to
fertilize the island. After completing some business we head out to look for fish.

We're in about 50' of water when he comes up
saying "big cabrilla!" I take a breath and head down. On the
bottom I'm looking toward his direction but don't see any fish. I turn to my right (deeper water) only to look into this ugly
face that's attached to this huge head. I guess he thought the same
of my face and decided to leave. I kick to follow but not able to
get him turned enough for a head shot. I kick harder with my gun
extended and that caused him him turn toward me. Though not a head shot I figure a solid
shot is better than no shot, so I pull the trigger and see my shaft
zing into it's mid section. I thought it was a pretty good shot,
but then as it pulled my float passed me I remember Boomhauer saying
that I should really shoot these grouper in the head because the
leverage aids in turning them to keep them out of holes. Well, so
much for plan A. My line stops running and I can't budge it, so I
tie the float off. Boomhauer comes over and after giving him a
couple of haulting descriptive sentences in between sucking air ( I
probably really sounded like a guy that spoke with a Laotion accent
at that moment), he goes down to scope things out. He comes up and tells me
that a big eel is going to town in the cave where my shooting line
is in. While he was down there a couple other grouper swam by to
check him out. Damn, I felt kinda bad then because my gut shot
grouper is preventing my buddy from getting one himself. After
about an hour and me sending another shaft through the fish's belly
(I'm a very consistent shot), Boomhauer goes down and works some
magic and brings my fish up. We both thought it looked about 80lbs
while in the water. Back at the boat, the pangero had some trouble
pulling it in and this is after I bled and gutted it while swimming
it back. My neighbor Hank, the pangero and I all tried to lift it
and only Hank was able to clear it's tail off the floor. The
pangero initially thought it was 60-70 kilos, and Hank who is new to
fishing/spearfishing said it definitely weighed more than his wife
who is ~140lbs. I'm happy to hear that but a little disturbed to
learn that my neighbor lifts his wife by her neck or collar. We
don't see anything at this spot but finish the day at the previous
day's YT spot for more YT and cabrilla in the mid to high teens.

We decided to leave at the end of day 3 instead of driving on
Monday, so we opted for a half day. Our pangero has learned from
the previous two days and doesn't come meet us until about 7:30am.
We head to a couple new spots but the water is just too lousy. My
legs didn't generate the same power and I was pretty tired from the
previous days. We had heard of dorado and seen jumping marlin but
we decided to hit the YT spot for some more. I spent most of my
time resting on a ledge over a drop off sniping steamer sized
cabrilla.

We head back, clean and pack up and leave before 3pm. Hank drives
the entire way and gets me home by about 4am. Boomhauer takes a nap
before taking the 10 hour drive home through the holiday traffic.

It was a great trip with a bunch of guys that shared the same
outlook and attitude. I'm lucky to have a dive buddy like Boomhauer
to sacrifice his opportunity at big fish to help me extract my twice
gut shot fish.

[Edited on 8-7-2007 by n8nlee]

baja gulf grouper.jpg - 45kB

Cypress - 8-7-2007 at 08:39 AM

n8nlee. Thanks for the report. Nice fish.

Bajaboy - 8-7-2007 at 08:46 AM

Thanks for sharing your adventure. What part of BCS?

Zac

Minnow - 8-7-2007 at 11:30 AM

Too many fish to filet, then you shoot that big old grouper for no other reason than to kill it. Gawd, I hate spear fishermen.

n8nlee - 8-7-2007 at 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Minnow
Too many fish to filet, then you shoot that big old grouper for no other reason than to kill it. Gawd, I hate spear fishermen.

Wow, that makes me feel kinda good.

While my buddy and I were diving, the pangero fished hook and line and caught about 2 dozen fish each day. He caught quite a few triggers which are very difficult to filet. My buddy and I were tired of helping the pangero filet his little fish.

I shot 5 cabrilla, 3 pargo, 3 YT, and one gulf grouper for that entire trip. The pangero got about half the filets and the carcass of the bigger fish for sopa. The filets I brought home were mostly given to non fishing friends. I brought home 1 zip lock bag of grouper and two bags of cabrilla filets. The rest were given to neighbors and friends of the pangero.

I didn't explain to justify anything to you Minnow because I know it wouldn't change how you feel about spearfishermen. You seem set on hating spearfishermen. I've met people like you. People who use blanket hate statements about other groups of people.

[Edited on 8-7-2007 by n8nlee]

Minnow - 8-7-2007 at 03:43 PM

Let me modify my statement slightly. I hate spearfishers that kill so many more fish than they need, that they have to give them away.

Let me guess. You probably don't eat fish. If you did you would know any grouper over 25lbs or so, starts to taste like cardboard.

I could go on about my personal experiences with spearfishers, but my point would probably be lost on you. If you have not read "the last of the blue water hunters", you need to. If you want your kids to be able to see a fish like that, other than in your picture, you might want to consider killing only what YOU are going to eat. Let your friends get their own fish. As for the Panguero, he eats more fish than he probably wants to anyway.

n8nlee - 8-7-2007 at 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Minnow
Let me modify my statement slightly. I hate spearfishers that kill so many more fish than they need, that they have to give them away.

Let me guess. You probably don't eat fish. If you did you would know any grouper over 25lbs or so, starts to taste like cardboard.

I could go on about my personal experiences with spearfishers, but my point would probably be lost on you. If you have not read "the last of the blue water hunters", you need to. If you want your kids to be able to see a fish like that, other than in your picture, you might want to consider killing only what YOU are going to eat. Let your friends get their own fish. As for the Panguero, he eats more fish than he probably wants to anyway.

Oh, then you would hate me the most. I hunt for fun and for trophies. I have a personal standard of not shooting anything smaller than my last fish. My fish progressively get bigger or I don't shoot them at all. What fish I do shoot and can't eat anymore, I give away.

So my 78 year old widowed neighbor with the 56 year old mentally handicapped neighbor should go get her own fish? How about the single mom around the corner from them?

If you took a look at my picture, then you would see that I'm of Asian decent which means I eat parts of a fish that even a cat will pass up. You ever eat sturgeon gizzard, fish liver, abalone guts? Those YT in the pictures on your link, did you eat the collars? Did you scrape the carcass for tartar or to feed your dog?

Have you ever had smoked grouper? That grouper was incredible smoked. The pangero made some outrageous machaca tacos out of the meat by the stomach and ribs. Do you go through the trouble of scraping the meat from that area and then make soup out of the carcass?

Blanket hate statements. I've met plenty of people like you. Some of those people hide behind sheets and pillow cases.

And yes, I've read Carlos' book. Have you ever speared a fish?

DENNIS - 8-7-2007 at 06:05 PM

I didn't hear minnow say anything about disliking people. Only what some people do, in your case, spear fish. He's allowed this opinion in a civil world and, you're allowed to disagree. The Klan doesn't belong in this discussion.

Minnow - 8-7-2007 at 06:12 PM

Dennis, don't waist your time. The picture, the whole story is a troll.

Good one mister Yee! :lol:

n8nlee - 8-7-2007 at 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
I didn't hear minnow say anything about disliking people. Only what some people do, in your case, spear fish. He's allowed this opinion in a civil world and, you're allowed to disagree. The Klan doesn't belong in this discussion.

I'm not bringing them in, nor am I saying Minnow is a member. His statement: "Gawd I hate spear fishermen" just reminded me of all those blanket hate statements made by the bigoted and ignorant.

backninedan - 8-7-2007 at 06:17 PM

Well put minnow. The main thing I dislike is that they kill the best of the breeding stock. But thats just my opionion.

Al G - 8-7-2007 at 06:36 PM

I looked at your picture did not read your post and had no feeling except "that's one hell of a big fish...now you have played the race card and it is something you will not be able to take back...Don't believe what inside you will let you save face anyway. There was no mention of racism...except from you. Now that I have read your post...expect to get the same response from Most all Nomads....what you do is excessive and I don't give a rats a** how you eat your fish...

Bajalero - 8-7-2007 at 07:19 PM

I wont judge you for a fish I wouldn't have taken . Your choice and your right and your perception.

I appreciated your original post , but then you brought all the uneeded crap into the thread.

What really matters though, is that most people here don't really care if you're the fricken purple people eater, but you've made a big deal out of your ethnicity and blatantly wear it as a big chip on your shoulder

Minnow - 8-7-2007 at 07:26 PM

Why the F would anyone need to spearfish, when trolling is so effective? :lol:

Take a good look at the picture folks. thats not a panga, Not to mention the persons relationship with the fish. :lol:

n8nlee - 8-7-2007 at 07:28 PM

Riiiiiiiiiight...

You two admitted to not reading my report, but is so certain that I'm playing the race card. Something tells me that you guys didn't read all that carefully?

n8nlee - 8-7-2007 at 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Minnow
Why the F would anyone need to spearfish, when trolling is so effective? :lol:

Take a good look at the picture folks. thats not a panga, Not to mention the persons relationship with the fish. :lol:

That's why I posted it...so people would look.

Why troll? Why not just go to a market?

So what is the correct term for a local guide who rents his gringo neighbor's boat to take us spearfishing? Since I never said panga, only referring to him as a pangero. I think most readers understood.

David K - 8-7-2007 at 07:41 PM

Great photo n8nlee... That was some fish! It is interesting to hear how much of it you put to use, too! Most fisherman filet out the 'good stuff' and the rest is trash or sea gull food!

Thanks for sharing... ignore the comments from those upset because they missed getting it first.

rhintransit - 8-7-2007 at 07:43 PM

uh, I may be wrong here, so you 'sportsmen' out there can correct me, but I thought that the combination of spearguns and dive tanks were illegal in Mexican waters.

and that grouper should have been left to breed.

David K - 8-7-2007 at 07:49 PM

He said: " ...I take a breath and head down."

That sounds like no dive tanks were used, to me...?

Roberto - 8-7-2007 at 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Great photo n8nlee... That was some fish! It is interesting to hear how much of it you put to use, too! Most fisherman filet out the 'good stuff' and the rest is trash or sea gull food!

Thanks for sharing... ignore the comments from those upset because they missed getting it first.

You, as you prove once again, are a *****. Your desire to make a smart comment has proven that --oh yeah, you're a *******. And thinking that someone would make a comment like that out of envy just puts in doubt your motivation for doing things.

Killing a fish like that is a crime. That's a 30-40 year old fish, how many of those do you think there are?

The values of killing only something bigger than the last one - for trophies - are abysmal. Folks who think like that shouldn't be allowed in the water - with a gun, a line, or anything else.

But, that's just my IMHO. :lol:

[Edited on 8-8-2007 by Hose A]

nice fish...

pacificobob - 8-7-2007 at 08:14 PM

ignore the self appointed eco-cops...who werent there, and stand ready to convict based on half the story... a fish killed by trolling is every bit as dead as one speared

David K - 8-7-2007 at 08:21 PM

Roberto, rearding the fish (if legally caught): I believe in God and verticle alignment. If you have nothing nice to say about anything, please **************, I am tired of your personal attacks and name calling... Read Nomad posting rules.

[Edited on 8-8-2007 by BajaNomad]

n8nlee - 8-7-2007 at 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pacificobob
ignore the self appointed eco-cops...who werent there, and stand ready to convict based on half the story... a fish killed by trolling is every bit as dead as one speared

Thanks, yeah those types don't bother me at all. There's this kind of derisiveness even among spearos. "don't kill calicos, don't kill sheephead...etc"

RE: trolling... until he dives down to 65 feet of water on one breath, crawls into a 10' deep cave trying to dislodge a 140lb fish while trying not to get bit by a peeed off moray or get tangled in cable...repeatly for an hour, only then will I concede that death by trolling is more sporting.

[Edited on 8-8-2007 by n8nlee]

Roberto - 8-7-2007 at 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Roberto, rearding the fish (if legally caught): I believe in God and verticle alignment. If you have nothing nice to say about anything, please *************, I am tired of your personal attacks and name calling... Read Nomad posting rules.

Hey, David -

The only subject I have little nice to say about is YOU.
I know this is stretching ****************, but you should start by NOT attacking others. That's exactly what you did in your previous post, **************************
***********************.

*******************************
*******************************
*******************************

And, by the way, the word is VERTICAL (whatever it means in this context), ****************.

[Edited on 8-8-2007 by Roberto]

[Edited on 8-8-2007 by BajaNomad]

David K - 8-7-2007 at 08:56 PM

In this example, regarding man and animals:

God is at the top

Then comes man... and

God placed the animals below man, to serve man.

Vertical alignment is also used to show the relationship of God, Family, Government...

rhintransit - 8-7-2007 at 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
He said: " ...I take a breath and head down."

That sounds like no dive tanks were used, to me...?

getting 'gear ready for a shore dive,' 'three suits,' 'head off to the first dive spot', 'in about 50' of water' and 'dive buddy' lead me to think that tanks might be involved.

well, it wasn't clear. maybe the author can enlighten us?

David K - 8-7-2007 at 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rhintransit

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
He said: " ...I take a breath and head down."

That sounds like no dive tanks were used, to me...?

Maybe he needs to fess up... Dive tank (scuba) spear fishing is TABOO in Mexico... agreed

n8nlee - 8-7-2007 at 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rhintransit

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
He said: " ...I take a breath and head down."

That sounds like no dive tanks were used, to me...?

I'm not sure what you've quoted suggested scuba gear.

'gear ready for a shore dive' - gear like mask, fins, speargun, floatline, float

'three suits' - reef camoflage, bluewater camo, 5mm top (in case water was colder than what terrafin said

'head off to the first dive spot' - because we went to more than one spot, I had to use that statement to identify it as the first spot? How does that insinuate use of scuba gear?

'dive buddy' - a friend that I dive with...a person who spots me from the surface while I make deep dives.

I fail to see what any of those statements lead you to think we were on scuba.

Spearfishing on scuba is illegal in Mexico. Spearfishing with a pneumatic speargun is illegal in Mexico.

I realized that no where above did I specifically say we did not use scuba. So I'll add this:

I nor my buddies used scuba on this trip (or any trip for that matter). My dive buddies and I only spear fish while freediving (on a single breath of air).

[Edited on 8-8-2007 by n8nlee]

[Edited on 8-8-2007 by n8nlee]

Roberto - 8-7-2007 at 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho
Beautiful grandaddy fish. Too bad it's gone now.

--Larry

Yeah, but it's a TROPHY now. Something to brag to your friends (or internet boards) about :barf:

Sportsmen my ass.

[Edited on 8-8-2007 by Roberto]

n8nlee - 8-7-2007 at 09:26 PM

Guys guys, don't be sad. We saw bigger fish while retrieving this lil' fella. We'll be going back next year better equipped to do it right. :lol:

Are you sure you weren't bait fishing?

BMG - 8-7-2007 at 10:06 PM

Because you sure opened a can of worms!

n8nlee - 8-7-2007 at 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BMG
Because you sure opened a can of worms!

I was trolling... :spingrin:

n8nlee - 8-7-2007 at 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by n8nlee
Guys guys, don't be sad. We saw bigger fish while retrieving this lil' fella. We'll be going back next year better equipped to do it right.

Like with a camera? Now THAT would merit respect. As I already said, I do admire your freediving ability. But not your person. Why kill for sheer ego gratification?

--Larry

I'm crushed.

My freediving skills aren't worthy of admiration. There are guys like my buddy that can dive twice as deep and stay three times longer.

Nice fish!

Don Jorge - 8-8-2007 at 07:18 AM

I always have thought the Mexicans should make grouper hunting like bighorn sheep hunting.

A complicated permit process and charge say 5 grand for the permit with selected guides in selected zones, all strictly regulated and the money going to the ejidos y ejidatarios. Well, maybe some of the money goes elsewhere!

Don't feed the trolls!

Minnow - 8-8-2007 at 07:26 AM

Jorge, you sure are. This quacks entire story is made up. Notice there are no specific details. The place is not named, the date is not given. Nothing that would validate his story. Not to mentioned the doctored photo. Imagine sending a panguero home so you can get some more sleep. The guy would have demanded his money, and left. There would have been no chance to do it a second day.

backninedan - 8-8-2007 at 07:37 AM

Don't let your "dive buddies" out dive you. Next dive, try to go three times deeper and four times longer than you ever have before.....

n8nlee - 8-8-2007 at 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by backninedan
Don't let your "dive buddies" out dive you. Next dive, try to go three times deeper and four times longer than you ever have before.....

Thanks for the advice, but I'll leave that kind of advice and diving to your wife and kids.

[Edited on 8-8-2007 by n8nlee]

n8nlee - 8-8-2007 at 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Minnow
Jorge, you sure are. This quacks entire story is made up...

So don't you feel stupid for all those posts to a piece of fiction? :lol:

Minnow - 8-8-2007 at 07:55 AM

Must be some life you live to have to put these kind of fabrications together. I bet you have an imaginary friend too. :lol:

Don Jorge - 8-8-2007 at 08:13 AM

No worries Minnow. I have seen this stuff over and over on other boards especially freedive spearfishing boards. They are just having fun and also flexing ego.

However, as Nate mentioned, within the spearfishing community controversy prevails also. Post a picture on one of those boards of a bagged sheephead or a calico and duck for cover.

I dive, with and without tanks. I was never a fanatic, just enjoy getting under the water as much as I enjoy being on top of the water.

Nowadays I don't shoot the big boys, sheephead, don't care for the meat, but I will take just the right size and colored calico for supper. When i was younger and dumber I shot everything. What a burros behind I was.

Most of the oldtimers have seen the devestation of the big fish and are torn between lthe younger generations right to fish and their desire to preserve the resource so our grandchildren can experience the wonder and awe we feel when we encounter these wonderful beasts of the deep.

Concerning this specific post grouper and cabrilla in Baja and Mexican waters are resources which belong to the Mexican people. There are just a few big boys left down there, they take a few decades to grow out to that size and they belong to the Mexicans. I think there should be permit process to protect the resource yet provide opportunity for those willing to pay to play.

baitcast - 8-8-2007 at 08:23 AM

Haven,t seen it this active in a long time,its a shame it took a gut-shot breeder to get things moving again :no:

n8nlee - 8-8-2007 at 08:26 AM

Yeah minnow, you just keep telling yourself that it's not real. That there are no spearfishermen in your baja. Whenever something comes along that you can't handle, just close your eyes and tell yourself that "it's not real" over and over.

So what did those bad bad men do to you in Gonzaga?

n8nlee - 8-8-2007 at 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by n8nlee
So don't you feel stupid for all those posts to a piece of fiction?

Huh? Are you saying that your original post ("first report") was a fabrication? :rolleyes:

--Larry

nope. story and fish are real. I was just remarking to minnow that if he believes my story was a fabrication, then he should feel stupid for all his posts.

But at this point, the authenticity of the report is a moot point.

[Edited on 8-8-2007 by n8nlee]

Minnow - 8-8-2007 at 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by n8nlee

But at this point, the authenticity of the report is a moot point.

[Edited on 8-8-2007 by n8nlee]

Validate your story then. Answer some of the questions posed to you. Where, when, and how you managed to hold a 200 lb fish up for a picture. :lol:

Not to mention you wrote that you shot is in the gut. Where's the hole?

n8nlee - 8-8-2007 at 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by n8nlee
But at this point, the authenticity of the report is a moot point.

No, it's not. People like to know whether you come here to mess with us or play with us. There's a big difference...

BTW, congratulations on your correct spelling of "moot." Maybe there's hope... :lol:

--Larry

Ahhh, I came here and asked some questions about a couple places. I've done a fair bit of research elsewhere and wanted to get a wider and hopefully more up to date info. I posted my report as way of contributing back because reports are the currency of any board.

Didn't know "moot" was a troublesome word. I guess if that provides you hope, then consider that my efforts to help advance humanity.

n8nlee - 8-8-2007 at 09:46 AM

I'd like to introduce you to "The Google". It can help you to look much smarter than you really are. You could have easily entered "weight conversion" into this "The Google" and it would have provided links to sites that convert kg into lbs. You can then drag your knuckles over the keyboard and type in 70 in the little box designated for kg and you would have seen what it converts to in lbs. Furthermore, there is reference to 140lbs somewhere in my report.

Now to your insistent whining about validating my report. I will only provide that information if you tell me in all it's glorious (or is it gory) detail of what those mean, bad, poo-poo head men did to you in Gonzaga.

Quote:

Originally posted by Minnow

Quote:

Originally posted by n8nlee

But at this point, the authenticity of the report is a moot point.

[Edited on 8-8-2007 by n8nlee]

Validate your story then. Answer some of the questions posed to you. Where, when, and how you managed to hold a 200 lb fish up for a picture. :lol:

Not to mention you wrote that you shot is in the gut. Where's the hole?

Minnow - 8-8-2007 at 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by n8nlee
Now to your insistent whining about validating my report. I will only provide that information if you tell me in all it's glorious (or is it gory) detail of what those mean, bad, poo-poo head men did to you in Gonzaga.
[Edited on 8-8-2007 by n8nlee]

Are you referring to my post about if you should go to gonzaga or BOLA? :lol:

I would hate to see one of my favorite places on earth ruined by the likes of you. :lol:

Take a look at my links. That is probably as close as you will ever get.

Got any more pictures from your imaginary trip? I didn't think so. :lol:

Nice fish

m12m12 - 8-8-2007 at 10:21 AM

n8nlee,

Thank you for sharing your experience. I find it interesting how people can justify killing younger fish instead of older ones. I have always had a problem with this because younger fish often do not get the chance to reproduce and help re stock our fisheries. We all need to do are part to help conserve our oceans.

Mexitron - 8-8-2007 at 10:24 AM

Sorry, nice skill, but I hope trophy hunters are a dying breed...doesn't make sense these days.

n8nlee - 8-8-2007 at 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Minnow

Quote:

Are you referring to my post about if you should go to gonzaga or BOLA? :lol:

I would hate to see one of my favorite places on earth ruined by the likes of you. :lol:

Take a look at my links. That is probably as close as you will ever get.

Got any more pictures from your imaginary trip? I didn't think so. :lol:

Nooooooooooo...

Here's what I'm talking about :

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Your bad experience at Alfonsina's (or people who have homes there) shouldn't be used to discourage others from enjoyng Gonzaga Bay... Try Beluga...

[Edited on 8-8-2007 by David K]

Your bad experience there must have been really bad, huh? You're trying very hard to repress it.

You retelling it will probably be very cathartic. It'd be good for you.

Minnow - 8-8-2007 at 11:48 AM

Who ever you are? OK, my side is hurting from laughing so hard. You are rebutting me with a quote from DK? Your lone friend here on Nomads. :lol:

Heres what I would do if someone on the internet questioned my integrity. Post every fact, friend, picture...... you have to back up your story. Nomads are a smart group, for the most part. I am not the favorite here, like some think they are. However, I don't see many coming to your defense.

Kick my arse. Post it if you got it. :lol:

Hook - 8-8-2007 at 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by m12m12
n8nlee,

Thank you for sharing your experience. I find it interesting how people can justify killing younger fish instead of older ones. I have always had a problem with this because younger fish often do not get the chance to reproduce and help re stock our fisheries. We all need to do are part to help conserve our oceans.

Well the problem with this thinking is that younger fish will sometimes not get to breeder size by natural methods either. Whereas, with the larger ones, you are pretty much guaranteed to be eliminating breeding stock. We need all of that we can get.

This post is so incendiary and on-going that I have to conclude the original poster came here just to get this kind of reaction.

Would anyone really profess to being a "oneupmanship" trophy hunter in this day and age?

Not an intelligent person.

Said to see these fish targeted basically for an egotistical reason.........legal or not.

[Edited on 8-8-2007 by Hook]

n8nlee - 8-8-2007 at 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Minnow
Who ever you are? OK, my side is hurting from laughing so hard. You are rebutting me with a quote from DK? Your lone friend here on Nomads. :lol:

Oh, that's rich. You're not even rebutting me. All you do is sidestep my points.

I'll say it again. Share what happened to you at Alfonisa's or with the residents of Gonzaga as eluded to by David K's post and I'll give you the details of that report.

I don't know David K so I can't consider him a friend. His posts on this thread lead me to believe he isn't anti-spearfishing. That doesn't make him my friend. So all those members who don't agree with me taking a grouper or is anti spearfishing are your friends? Now I understand why you continually write about "imaginary friends".

Is that why you have your picture, pictures of your "friends" (do they know they're your friends?) on a website? Because your integrity is called so often that you got tired of posting pictures of them, so you just put up a permanent page to which you refer?

You're not the favorite here? Impossible! Who'd believe it.

I think anyone reading our exchange realizes that I'm not the one that needs aid. I have received U2U's telling me to ignore you and the nicest thing anyone has said about you is that you're a "problem child" of this board. You wanna guess what the other things said about you are?

n8nlee - 8-8-2007 at 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook

Quote:

Your conclusion about me would be wrong. I came here to get a wider perspective on a few places I was considering going. Some nice members were helpful with their replies and suggestions.

This being a forum, I thought the best way to give back was to post a report.

So admitting that I will only take a bigger fish than my last makes me ignorant? There's a chance that I'll never take another grouper because I may never see one as big. So in my lifetime, I would have only killed one fish of that species. I'd say that's pretty selective.

Now, to the fish. Take a closer look at it. Does the body look too small for the head? Or does the head just look huge in comparison to the body? Could the fish be slowly starving to death? Look at the lower jaw of the fish. Does that far corner look odd? Maybe the jagged edge looks like the jaw is torn? That male has seen better days.

I believe you meant to say "Sad to see..." but I won't use that as a gauge of your intelligence.

Minnow - 8-8-2007 at 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by n8nlee

Oh, that's rich. You're not even rebutting me. All you do is sidestep my points.

I'll say it again. Share what happened to you at Alfonisa's or with the residents of Gonzaga as eluded to by David K's post and I'll give you the details of that report.

I don't know David K so I can't consider him a friend. His posts on this thread lead me to believe he isn't anti-spearfishing. That doesn't make him my friend. So all those members who don't agree with me taking a grouper or is anti spearfishing are your friends? Now I understand why you continually write about "imaginary friends".

Is that why you have your picture, pictures of your "friends" (do they know they're your friends?) on a website? Because your integrity is called so often that you got tired of posting pictures of them, so you just put up a permanent page to which you refer?

You're not the favorite here? Impossible! Who'd believe it.

I think anyone reading our exchange realizes that I'm not the one that needs aid. I have received U2U's telling me to ignore you and the nicest thing anyone has said about you is that you're a "problem child" of this board. You wanna guess what the other things said about you are?

Thanks for proving what I have know for years. :lol:

Like you, reality has no place in some peoples lives.

Validate your story. Quit talking in circles. Lets see some more pictures from your trip. :lol:

tripledigitken - 8-8-2007 at 12:56 PM

Spearhunter,

Your longwinded exchange with Minnow certainly proves you have a very high opinion of yourself. An opinion few share here.

Your bragging of taking a larger fish each time you go hunting doesn't seem to be impressing many here either. Isn't there a more appropriate place to bond with other spearhunters, say bloodydecks.com?

Why not take a camera next time to "shoot" a trophy, you might impress more people with a picture below water.

What's the biggest Great White Shark that you've speared?

Ken

Hook - 8-8-2007 at 12:57 PM

Oh, so you put it out of it's starving misery, did you? You were actually doing the fish a favor, were you? Maybe the whole species a favor?

What a caring individual you are...........

Let's see, big trophy hunter for ego and a savior to the species, too.

My, how someone has deluded you, Renaissance Man..........

This guy has my vote for the First Annual Ricardo Cabeza de Baja Award.

[Edited on 8-8-2007 by Hook]

Frank - 8-8-2007 at 12:58 PM

So your buddy helped you drag the fish out of the hole after you gut shot the fish twice. I thought you guys were all about fighting the fish one on one? Looks like the fish kicked your A$$ and you had to have your buddy help you out. Maybe you shouldnt of taken the shot, but got greedy and did it anyways? Thats not sport.

Cypress - 8-8-2007 at 01:00 PM

n8nlee. Agree with your take on the condition of the fish in the picture, very much on the thin side. :no:

Maybe something has gone haywire with the food chain? :?:

Hope not! About killing and giving fish to the neighborhood, you diminish the value of your catch when you give it away. Why kill something just to give it away? :?:

n8nlee - 8-8-2007 at 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
n8nlee. Agree with your take on the condition of the fish in the picture, very much on the thin side. :no:

Maybe something has gone haywire with the food chain? :?:

Hope not! About killing and giving fish to the neighborhood, you diminish the value of your catch when you give it away. Why kill something just to give it away? :?:

I don't think it has anything to do with the food chain. It looks like the fish suffered a catastrophic injury to it's jaw and is having trouble feeding. All the other grouper we saw were very portly.

I didn't kill it to just give it away. I shared the kill with friends and neighbors.

[Edited on 8-8-2007 by n8nlee]

n8nlee - 8-8-2007 at 01:50 PM

I have to chuckle to myself as I read these responses. They really aren't unexpected. It seems every other post is about how someone misses the good o' days and I can only surmise that includes missing all the big fish from whatever era.

I've encounter all sorts of tree hugger PETA types and you guys are really very mild in comparison.

So what have we accomplished with this thread? Those of you that despise me or my take of the fish will continue to do so. I will continue to hunt exactly the way I hunt and mentor other spearfishermen in my ways.

Hook - 8-8-2007 at 02:00 PM

We havent accomplished anything with regards to you, Ricardo. Stupidity is often a choice; ignorance isn't. We've at least determined that you aren't ignorant of your condition. Just proud of it, apparently.

But if we have opened the eyes of others (who may have looked in admiration to your ilk in the past), then ithis exchange has been worth it.

You are the type that give sportsmen a bad name everywhere. You are the type that give fodder to the organizations that would shut down sportfishing completely.

And you are apparently oblivious to it.................. :rolleyes:

Al G - 8-8-2007 at 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook
We havent accomplished anything with regards to you, Ricardo. Stupidity is often a choice; ignorance isn't. We've at least determined that you aren't ignorant of your condition. Just proud of it, apparently.

But if we have opened the eyes of others (who may have looked in admiration to your ilk in the past), then ithis exchange has been worth it.

You are the type that give sportsmen a bad name everywhere. You are the type that give fodder to the organizations that would shut down sportfishing completely.

And you are apparently oblivious to it.................. :rolleyes:

Add all of the above to the Fact you are a racist and it shows your maturity...not much.

n8nlee - 8-8-2007 at 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook

You are the type that give sportsmen a bad name everywhere. You are the type that give fodder to the organizations that would shut down sportfishing completely.

And you are apparently oblivious to it.................. :rolleyes:

What is your definition of sportsman? How do these sportsmen hunt or fish?

What organizations in Mexico are attempting to shut down sportfishing completely?

Al G - 8-8-2007 at 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by n8nlee

Quote:

What is your definition of sportsman? How do these sportsmen hunt or fish?

What organizations in Mexico are attempting to shut down sportfishing completely?

Get out of here...you a sportsman :lol:

..if given the chance you would tape dynamite to the end of your spear. Being a racist has already proved you have no class and the people who (as I said originally would) support you have little class to offer either...

[Edited on 8-8-2007 by Al G]

n8nlee - 8-8-2007 at 02:30 PM

Al,

Are you calling Hook a racist?

Can someone decipher Al's post for me.

Al G - 8-8-2007 at 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by n8nlee
Al,

Are you calling Hook a racist?

Can someone decipher Al's post for me.

It is all about you spearhunter...

DENNIS - 8-8-2007 at 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook
Ricardo

Who is Ricardo? Did I miss something again?

You said, she said, he said...

BMG - 8-8-2007 at 02:54 PM

Time a little humor?

fish.jpg - 23kB

n8nlee - 8-8-2007 at 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Al G

Quote:

Originally posted by n8nlee
Al,

Are you calling Hook a racist?

Can someone decipher Al's post for me.

It is all about you spearhunter...

Might I suggest that when you quote someone and then use the second person pronoun "you" but you're actually referring to a third person, then you want to get that third person's attention by addressing them in your post.

I don't use dynamite, but it is done:

http://www.spearboard.com/showthread.php?t=18867&highlig...

[Edited on 8-8-2007 by n8nlee]

Hook - 8-8-2007 at 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook
Ricardo

Who is Ricardo? Did I miss something again?

You missed the awards banquet !!!!!

DENNIS - 8-8-2007 at 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook

You missed the awards banquet !!!!!

You mean when Lucy and Ricky Ricardo got an Emmy?

Al G - 8-8-2007 at 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by n8nlee

Quote:

Originally posted by Al G

Quote:

Originally posted by n8nlee
Al,

Are you calling Hook a racist?

Can someone decipher Al's post for me.

It is all about you spearhunter...

Sorry won't go there...have no need for gratification sites for young and dumbers. You owe this board an apology for spouting your racist remarks...if you can kill fish you should be man enough.
You are a weak personality...just trying to figure how weak...

n8nlee - 8-8-2007 at 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Al G

Quote:

Originally posted by n8nlee

Quote:

Originally posted by Al G

Quote:

Originally posted by n8nlee
Al,

Are you calling Hook a racist?

Can someone decipher Al's post for me.

It is all about you spearhunter...

I've been more than patient with you.

If anyone is to apologize, it's you who needs to apologize to me for calling me a racist.

But I doubt you're smart enough to realize the error of your ways.

Liars are the first to accuse others of lying. Thieves are the first to accuse others of stealing. Racists are the first to accuse...

n8nlee - 8-8-2007 at 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Minnow

Validate your story. Quit talking in circles. Lets see some more pictures from your trip. :lol:

Minnow, I haven't forgotten about you. I'll be in Gonzaga soon enough. I'll just ask Antonio or Joaquin about a man from Vegas with no neck named Tom...

I probably won't need to finish my sentence before they tell me tales of said person.

DENNIS - 8-8-2007 at 03:31 PM

n8n......

No no no. You can't turn this around on Albert. It was your reference to the Ku Klux Klan that started this mess. Go back and read it if you are having memory problems.

n8nlee - 8-8-2007 at 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
n8n......

No no no. You can't turn this around on Albert. It was your reference to the Ku Klux Klan that started this mess. Go back and read it if you are having memory problems.

My reference to "people who wear sheets and pillow cases" was to Minnow's blanket hate statement of all spear fishermen.

I said his statement reminds me of people who hate for the sake of hating like those people who wear the sheets...etc. Those people hate all persons of a certain race, creed...etc. Minnow's statement is of that ilk. Had he qualified his statement with "... hate all irresponsible spearfishermen..."

Do you believe that makes me a racist?

At this point, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks or believes. I'm done with this thread. I'll post another report and pictures of big dead fish next time.

[Edited on 8-8-2007 by n8nlee]

DENNIS - 8-8-2007 at 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by n8nlee
]

My reference to "people who wear sheets and pillow cases" was to Minnow's blanket hate statement of all spear fishermen.

I said his statement reminds me of people who hate for the sake of hating like those people who wear the sheets...etc. Those people hate all persons of a certain race, creed...etc. Minnow's statement is of that ilk. Had he qualified his statement with "... hate all irresponsible spearfishermen..."

Do you believe that makes me a racist?

Well, you're the one who turned Minnow's dislike for spear fishing into the race issue. You can't deny what you wrote to a billion people.
I don't blame you for leaving. You've rendered yourself indefensible.

I only lasted 2 days

Cap - 8-8-2007 at 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Minnow
Nomads are a smart group, for the most part. I am not the favorite here, like some think they are. However, I don't see many coming to your defense.

I was trying to keep from getting involved with negative posting on this board, but the above quote compelled me speak up instead of just cwardly sending U2Us supporting N8.

I am having trouble seeing the difference in catching a fish like this by more traditional means, and shooting it with a speargun. Maybe I missed something, but even with catch and release fishing there is a mortality rate. On another note the relatively minute amount of fish harvested by spearos seems insignificant when commercial fish companies are raping the Mexican waterways. Maybe this is a case of misplaced anger?
N8 does not come across as overly arrogant, or ignorant. I think the point he makes about selectivity is important. He clearly mentioned that this could be the last of this species he ever takes. His argument seems more valid because he is not calling names either. And this whole racism segway is just ridiculous.
As for Gonzaga Bay, it is one of my favorite places to lick my wounds after a Baja excursion, and if you are there n8, the first Modelo is on me.

toneart - 8-8-2007 at 04:09 PM

n8nlee

Consider this guys username. If he is as clever as he thinks he is he would probably make a play on words (and numbers) to come with a pseudonym that has a meaning.

Take the word innate: adj.. Inborn, natural
This would be a word that describes the nature of someone; an egotist maybe? He has made an adverb out of the word by adding Lee..innately. Now we have a word that describes how he goes about his business, in this case, bellygutting the biggest trophy fish he could find.

Now do you think an egotist would sneak his name into the moniker? Try the name Lee.

I hear that "Dog", the bounty hunter likes to spearfish. You shouldn't be too hard to find, underwater in Baja. He already has your name and your number and your face that you said your grouper swam away from.

Minnow - 8-8-2007 at 04:20 PM

Cap, the parts you refer to were deleted by the moderator, and or n8n.

I can't help but laugh. Reading comprehension is at an all time low here. The picture is fake, and the story is fake.

This guy has convinced people like DK and Cap that he went to Baja and only took one picture. If any of the story were true he would post the proof instead of talking in circles.

Nice of DK to U2U the guy though. Hey n8n, why don't you post the message DK sent you. He has already proven he approves of posting others U2U's that are sent to him. Did he send you a map to the nearest Grouper hole with that message. :lol:

DENNIS - 8-8-2007 at 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cap
first Modelo is on me.

Cap.......You're showing serious ambivilance toward n8. If you really care, buy him a Pacifico.

Hook - 8-8-2007 at 04:27 PM

Cap, he says this MIGHT be the last of this species that he takes because he doubts he will ever see a bigger version..........kind of a self-fulfilling prophesy, wouldnt you say?

Let's see, hmmmm, there just dont seem to be any big fish around anymore..........I wonder how that happened?????

Still, by his own creed, IF he saw a bigger version, it's fair game and he would go for it.

I can just see it now.....he shoots one that he THOUGHT was bigger than the last one but, darn it if it didnt turn out to be a bit smaller. Honest mistake.........all is forgiven..........well, except to the fish that just lost his life in the interest of taking a bigger and bigger version. Measuring is guesswork below the surface.

How does his methods differ from other methods of take, you ask? I cant recall a single instance of catch-and-release spearing, for the life of me.........

toneart - 8-8-2007 at 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cap

Quote:

Originally posted by Minnow
Nomads are a smart group, for the most part. I am not the favorite here, like some think they are. However, I don't see many coming to your defense.

Cap,

I supported you when you thought you were leaving, but here I have to disagree with you. The fact is that this is a fish of huge proportions; a fish that has lived for many years and is a breeder. Endangerment of a species is the issue here. Greed and braggadoccio is also an issue.He took two sucker shots to the gut and he is bragging about it.

It is obvious that he started this string not only to boast about something reprehensible, but he is also getting off by pulling Nomad's chains. Style has a lot to do with it too. This guy knows how to use the English language in order to manipulate
emotions. He has a keen psychological command of how to illicit just the kinds of responses he has gotten. These responses are from Nomads who have lots of different opinions about fish and fishing. Some will probably take issue with my opinions that I am about to share below, but most are repulsed by this guys actions and attitudes.

Regarding commercial net fishermen, that too is plundering, but not for blood lust. The same goes for line sport fishermen who catch more than they can eat in my not so humble opinion.

Also, he is the one who pulled the race card. I'm glad that didn't go any further than it did. :fire:

DENNIS - 8-8-2007 at 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook

How does his methods differ from other methods of take, you ask? I cant recall a single instance of catch-and-release spearing, for the life of me.........

It's like catch'n release for a bludgeoned Harp Seal.

Roberto - 8-8-2007 at 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cap
I am having trouble seeing the difference in catching a fish like this by more traditional means, and shooting it with a speargun.

The difference lies in one word - TARGETING, and that's the problem, not the speargun. That just makes targeting more direct and obvious.

You can target these fish from a boat as well, and that's just as bad. This guy purposely goes out to kill the biggest fish he can find of what is a very, very, limited resource, so he can BRAG about it to others and feel what a big man he is. You don't see a problem?

Al G - 8-8-2007 at 04:49 PM

Quote:

It's like catch'n release for a bludgeoned Harp Seal.

Best point yet :light:

civility

Cap - 8-8-2007 at 04:50 PM

I would like to start by thanking you guys for keeping things civil in your responses. I am not sure if this trip report is true or not. I was just questioning the relationship of the scarcity of big fish, and large scale commercial fishing, and sport fishing. The local PBS channel ran a bill fish special that concluded over 90% of bills are taken by long liners, is this true of bas, grouper and other varieties as well?
Furthermore the sportfishing industries economic revenue per fatality was far greater, and was reinvested heavily in education, and sustainable resource study.

BTW the reason I offered a Modelo is that I plan to drink all of the Pacifico before anyone else arrives :yes:

targeting

Cap - 8-8-2007 at 04:56 PM

All of those sportfishing boats use BIG lures to target big Bill fish. But Tone, I defer to your experience on posting to get a response. I guess I just post to learn or share ideas. I (maybe naively ) assume other people do the same. Plus it makes me feel better to take people at their word. Kind of like not locking your fronnt door, every time you come home and all is well you feel better about the world.

DENNIS - 8-8-2007 at 04:57 PM

Cap.......

Longliners are inhuman. I hope the subject never comes up. It's too hot.

What happened to your red plane avatar?

[Edited on 8-8-2007 by DENNIS]

Cypress - 8-8-2007 at 05:00 PM

Don't play with your food. :bounce:

Catch and release is playing with your food. :bounce:

tripledigitken - 8-8-2007 at 05:01 PM

Cap,

What I saw as arrogant is one hour after the first gut shot he gut shoots the fish again and flippantly says at least I'm consistant. Meanwhile the fish is probably still not dead.

Arrogant is telling the pangero to come back later to take them fishing it was too early not just once but the second day too.

Isn't that arrogant to you or anyone reading this?

Ken

toneart - 8-8-2007 at 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cap
All of those sportfishing boats use BIG lures to target big Bill fish. But Tone, I defer to your experience on posting to get a response. I guess I just post to learn or share ideas. I (maybe naively ) assume other people do the same. Plus it makes me feel better to take people at their word. Kind of like not locking your fronnt door, every time you come home and all is well you feel better about the world.

Right on! I would like to see the BajaNomad board members get back to the spirit (as Bernie so aptly puts it) of Nomads helping Nomads. :yes:

I'm glad you're back, but I hope we depth charged Mr. Lee out of the water.

Cap - 8-8-2007 at 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Cap.......

Longliners are inhuman. I hope the subject never comes up. It's too hot.

What happened to your red plane avatar?

[Edited on 8-8-2007 by DENNIS]

oops sorry, I didn't know, again, I am pretty new.

As for my avatar, I am a little embarassed to say I was trying to figure out how to close my account on this board. I couldn't figure it out and then ran acrossed this thread ( sorry I like to fish). The red plane is getting new carbs and other maintenance in prepartion for a 10 day trip down the Baja this month. I was going to put a better pic up of departing from Mulege. Hopefully there aren't any north rim residents of Mulege reading this.....

Ain't that the truth!

Don Jorge - 8-8-2007 at 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by baitcast
Haven,t seen it this active in a long time,its a shame it took a gut-shot breeder to get things moving again :no:

It is a further shame I am stuck here instead of there. As apparently are many of us non nomadics right now! Ni modo.

DENNIS - 8-8-2007 at 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cap

I was trying to figure out how to close my account on this board. I couldn't figure it out .....

Glad you're still here. I know I gave you a bad time the other day but, when you know me better, you'll know it doesn't mean anything. Stick around for a while. You'll enjoy it.

Frank - 8-8-2007 at 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Frank
So your buddy helped you drag the fish out of the hole after you gut shot the fish twice. I thought you guys were all about fighting the fish one on one? Looks like the fish kicked your A$$ and you had to have your buddy help you out. Maybe you shouldnt of taken the shot, but got greedy and did it anyways? Thats not sport.

What no reply to this?

Bob and Susan - 8-8-2007 at 06:08 PM

you know n8nlee...

it does look "photoshopped"
and i blew it up

you MUST have a couple of other pics you could post
to SHUT UP minnow....

otherwise i might join his team :lol:

which may be the "darkside" :lol:

Al G - 8-8-2007 at 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Frank

Quote:

What no reply to this?

Well, I think the bombs were coming to fast for him to reply...a little shell shocked I think, but look for him to crawl back...he is just that kinda guy...in his mind he has never been wrong...
Really...I wish this had not happened

Bob and Susan - 8-8-2007 at 06:18 PM

i may be wrong but....

fisher.jpg - 15kB

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