BajaNomad

San Quintin; Navy detention; sunken boat

Don Alley - 9-14-2007 at 05:23 PM

Out at sea, the Navy this time:

http://www.bloodydecks.com/forums/baja-mexico-fishing-report...

[Edited on 9-16-2007 by BajaNomad]

Minnow - 9-14-2007 at 06:20 PM

This is the worst case scenario, and warrants some sort of protest.

Mexican Navy Boards then Sinks Boat off San Quintin

lp2578 - 9-14-2007 at 07:13 PM

Let me start by stating that I am a long time traveler to Baja. I’ve driven and towed my boats from Ensenada to Loreto and all points in between for more than 30 years. I’ve been reading all the posts about the recent carjackings and robberies lately and I believe as long as you don’t drive at night you are as safe traveling in Baja as anywhere else in the world. But then I hear first hand of an incident that occurred to a friend of mine while fishing just off San Quintin this past Tuesday. He is a veteran of Baja and set up a charter with Tito’s Pangas to fish on one of his cabin cruisers. The price included the fishing license and equipment for the rest of his buddies. On Tuesday Sept 11th my buddy and 3 of the 5 people were fishing off San Quintin and fishing was slow and while they were out doing some bottom fishing they noticed a Mexican Naval ship in the distance. They didn’t think much of it and continued to fish. Out of nowhere and to everyone’s surprise a small boat is fast approaching with naval guys in ski masks with machine guns drawn. They are boarded and asked to produce the proper documents, all this while at gunpoint. The Mexican captain from Tito’s produces the fishing licenses and boat permit. My buddy and his friends are then asked to produce their passports. They didn’t have their passports on them and the naval guys accused them of being in the country illegally. In addition to that they claimed that the fishing licenses were invalid due to a certain stamp missing. According to my buddy, who speaks Spanish, the licenses were stamped and had their names on them. Here’s where it really get’s scary. The navy orders the captain of the sportfisher (SF) to follow them to the bigger naval boat where they are told to board. The captain of the SF calls into the owner of Tito’s and informed them what was happening. Luckily there were 2 friends of my buddies that had decided not to fish that day and they were asked to get the passports. The owner of Tito’s shows up to the naval boat with the only 2 passports that were available. The Naval Captain (if you could call him that) decides not to let anyone go because 2 of the guys didn’t have passports. They were now being detained for not having the proper fishing license and for passport violations and that they now have to go to Ensenada and appear in court! Unfrickenbelievable! They were told that they would be in Ensenada by 8AM the next morning. They try and tie the SF to the big boat according to my buddy and they are having a hard time doing this. They get underway and it is obvious that the boat is going to sink. They ask they Navy Captain to allow them to remove their gear which includes, fishing equipment, ice chests, clothes & fish and were told no. About 3AM the boat is taking on water. A couple of naval personnel jump in the SF and proceed to bail the water out and try to re-rig the tow rope. Around 8AM they are still offshore and the SF is starting to go down. Long story short (too late I know) the SF starts to sink and all the gear is lost. They finally make it into the Naval base in Ensenada around 6PM. Prior to being released, and at gunpoint, they were ordered to take a physical and to sign some document, in Spanish, admitting that they knew they were fishing without a license. They were refusing to sign and asked for an interpreter. The interpreter stated that the document was an admission of guilt. My buddy signed it and they were let go. No court. No fine. Nothing. The name of the ship “Matamonos”. This ship was formerly the USS Sage and was given/sold to the Mexican Navy. Also, in the galley, there was a picture of Collin Powell handing the ship over to Mexican Navy. One of the guys had a small digital camera that he kept hidden.

Has anyone else heard of this incident or had a similar run in with the Mexican Navy.

P.S. Not sure why you need them when entering by land but you may want to start carrying your passports.



[Edited on 9-15-2007 by lp2578]

MC15 073 (Medium).jpg - 45kB

lp2578 - 9-14-2007 at 07:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Don Jorge
Maybe they were smuggling monkeys? :lol::lol::lol:


Not very funny. I re-posted the story from BD. My friends lost over $2K worth of gear and were held at gun point for the majority of the time and were afraid for there lives. And they did nothing wrong. I have been driving and towing boats down the Baja for more than 30 years and this incident is a first for me. With all the car jackings and robberies taking place I hesitate to go back. Bad thing is that I love the Baja and I will continue to go as much as I can.

JZ - 9-15-2007 at 05:50 AM

One this I don't understand is why all the talk about passports and no mention of FMT's. I would think they would be asking about visas, but not passports??

Crusoe - 9-15-2007 at 07:19 AM

There is something a little fishy going on here.......The Mexican Navy is always very courteous and helpful to most everyone. Did these fisherman do something to provoke the treatment they recieved?.... If not, then they need to contact someone in the U.S. Coast in San Diego and file a detailed report. This incident needs to be investigated and brought to the forfront.!!!!Also they need to notify the Consulate. There are specific "Maritime" laws that govern activity on the Ocean. (Yes-even while recreational fishing). If they are inocent,then this type of activity must be curtailed and they are entitled to finacial compensaation. ++C++

Minnow - 9-15-2007 at 07:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Crusoe
. If they are inocent,then this type of activity must be curtailed and they are entitled to finacial compensaation. ++C++


Crusoe, How's the weather in OZ?:lol::lol:

capt. mike - 9-15-2007 at 07:29 AM

"I have said that Mexico does not stop at its border, that wherever there is a Mexican, there is Mexico. "

hahahahahahaha................i like that! so true.

and now i live in mexico full time! finally. my address is Snottsdale, Mexico.

mtgoat666 - 9-15-2007 at 08:05 AM

Quote:
Out of nowhere and to everyone’s surprise a small boat is fast approaching with naval guys in ski masks with machine guns drawn. They are boarded and asked to produce the proper documents, all this while at gunpoint.


me thinks the charter operator/boat owner had a history that prompted the attention. the gringos probably just had bad fortune to choose the wrong boat...
or maybe the gringos were bad characters that attracted attention, and boat captain had bad fortune to choose the wrong customers.
the navy is usually polite and doesn't react without reason.

shari - 9-15-2007 at 10:04 AM

Sounds very fishy to me but we all know that sheet happens here...so hate to say I told ya so (again) so please everyone, get your papers in order and get those fishing licenses.

gnukid - 9-15-2007 at 01:09 PM

Boating is fraught with complications and unexpected results based on the crew and captain. Nearly every day things go super haywire on board vessels, from mechanical to formalities even with the best preparation and people. Every day I am surprised people on board don't follow instructions and don't take things seriously, (while having fun) thinking someone else will take care of the problems.

Look at this report with the same view one might approach a circumstance anywhere. If you fail to comply 100% with those responsible to enforce the law you will find yourself suffering and it can be quite serious.

In San Francisco and throughout California while boating we are often approached by law enforcement, military, etc... (all with newfound guns and power) on armed vessels at full speed weapons drawn on turrets and no chance for discussion. Often they pull away at the final moment, sometimes they don't

In Mexico, I live with marines and naval people. Mexican Military are highly trained to be professional and systematic, of the highest level of professionalism without aggression, beyond reproach, though its quite easy for anyone to make mistakes. I can see that if you fail to provide some id, and proper fishing licenses promptly or falsely you will be detained and you will likely loose something in the process.

The circumstances are not so strange, quite the opposite from the tone of bloodydecks, such efforts may benefit all of us if in fact the rule of law was being enforced which more than likely it was, no visas, no valid fishing license. Every boat capt is the same, they hold blank licenses for each fisherman until the navy boats finally arrive one day and then fill them out and charge the fisherman the money for a license anyway. Thats 15 bucks more per person per day, 4 fisherman = $60 bucks/day permit approximately.

FYI I carry two fishing valid licences, cause I expect to lose one, one in the boat and one at in my wallet plus copies of everything in sealed envelopes in sealed plastic in every vehicle, boat and at home. I actually take velcro and peel and stick it to the bag of docs and glue it to the inside of the boat so it is always there regardless of rogue waves. I review these packets every 6 months. You can make these travel packs at home in about 5 minutes and put them everywhere, so they are easily provided at any moment plus trade them with a good friend whose phone number you memorize. It allows me the freedom to go where I want with confidence without ever thinking about it again. It might sound paranoid to you, but when the s--- goes down I remain quite confident which makes it all go better, fast. There have been many many times when I was stopped three times in a day in the area of La Paz in cars and boats, they just want to check in and say hi especially if you are having fun and you look like you have more than 10 dollars.

Be polite, calm, direct and personable with formal introductions, "Hi how are you, very nice to meet you, my name is ______ what is your name and where are you from. what a handsome uniform may I take your picture, click, I can send a copy to your family and boss...", it will go a long way to super quick resolution and if it goes bad, your good behavior and proper docs will make a good case for yourself later in court.

No tickets or accidents (reported) n 15 years!

[Edited on 9-15-2007 by gnukid]

[Edited on 9-16-2007 by gnukid]

comitan - 9-15-2007 at 03:24 PM

If their attitude was the same as the posters on BD you can understand why this happened. You cannot go into a foreign country with an attitude the people in charge will make you humble!!!!!!!!!!!

I've been boarded by the Mexican Navy...

Mexray - 9-15-2007 at 04:48 PM

...in a small boat on the Pacific coast, as I ventured into Mexican waters from the South.

This was about 15 years ago, and I realize things change, but...it was still a tense situation out there in open waters, miles from the coast!

They shadowed us for about an hour before hailing us to stop and prepare to be boarded. There were three sailors and an officer in a small inflatable that came 'bouncing' over to our 65' power catamaran. There were no ski masks...but their M-16's were displayed prominently! One sailor remained in their boat while the other three boarded to look over our papers.

We had a couple of rifles on board (it was a long delivery voyage) that we stashed away so we wouldn't have to deal with that aspect of our 'inspection' on the high seas.

We were cordial toward them, even though they tramped around our vessel wearing their thick, black rubber soled boots! We did have all our papers and ID's, etc. in order for the office to look over. There was a cursory search to see if we had stacks of drugs on board somewhere, I suppose.

The whole process took about a half hour as I remember, then they left, bobbing through the waves back to their mother ship...which was spooky, as it had no visible markings or name...only a small Mexican flag flying atop the rigging.

Like other have said above...if you're going out fishing, keep your papers close at hand, not back in the pickup's glove box!

That story above does sound somewhat 'fishy' in that the Navy towed them, instead of just instructing them to follow the Naval vessel. Also, what about the other boat that brought the passports out to them...wasn't that boat available to take some of the gear off the floundering vessel? There's some unanswered questions here...I'm thinking there was some 'resistance' to the Navy's boarding, etc. for them to be 'towed' back to port in that manner.

Minnow - 9-15-2007 at 04:59 PM

EVERYBoDY, Lets leave the speculation in the real estate section. This is some serious CaCa.

bacquito - 9-15-2007 at 05:16 PM

The fact that the military personel were armed is not surprising-at all the military check points on the highways the military is armed. What bothers me is that some look to be very young. My stepson is 32 and looks to be 18!!

gnukid - 9-16-2007 at 01:52 AM

This is basic, happens every day. A boat sank? C'mon. Sank because the navy sank it?

BajaNews - 9-16-2007 at 12:04 PM

http://www.chava.smugmug.com/gallery/3481616

titoboat.jpg - 48kB

lp2578 - 9-16-2007 at 12:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gnukid
Boating is fraught with complications and unexpected results based on the crew and captain. Nearly every day things go super haywire on board vessels, from mechanical to formalities even with the best preparation and people. Every day I am surprised people on board don't follow instructions and don't take things seriously, (while having fun) thinking someone else will take care of the problems.

Look at this report with the same view one might approach a circumstance anywhere. If you fail to comply 100% with those responsible to enforce the law you will find yourself suffering and it can be quite serious.

In San Francisco and throughout California while boating we are often approached by law enforcement, military, etc... (all with newfound guns and power) on armed vessels at full speed weapons drawn on turrets and no chance for discussion. Often they pull away at the final moment, sometimes they don't

In Mexico, I live with marines and naval people. Mexican Military are highly trained to be professional and systematic, of the highest level of professionalism without aggression, beyond reproach, though its quite easy for anyone to make mistakes. I can see that if you fail to provide some id, and proper fishing licenses promptly or falsely you will be detained and you will likely loose something in the process.

The circumstances are not so strange, quite the opposite from the tone of bloodydecks, such efforts may benefit all of us if in fact the rule of law was being enforced which more than likely it was, no visas, no valid fishing license. Every boat capt is the same, they hold blank licenses for each fisherman until the navy boats finally arrive one day and then fill them out and charge the fisherman the money for a license anyway. Thats 15 bucks more per person per day, 4 fisherman = $60 bucks/day permit approximately.

FYI I carry two fishing valid licences, cause I expect to lose one, one in the boat and one at in my wallet plus copies of everything in sealed envelopes in sealed plastic in every vehicle, boat and at home. I actually take velcro and peel and stick it to the bag of docs and glue it to the inside of the boat so it is always there regardless of rogue waves. I review these packets every 6 months. You can make these travel packs at home in about 5 minutes and put them everywhere, so they are easily provided at any moment plus trade them with a good friend whose phone number you memorize. It allows me the freedom to go where I want with confidence without ever thinking about it again. It might sound paranoid to you, but when the s--- goes down I remain quite confident which makes it all go better, fast. There have been many many times when I was stopped three times in a day in the area of La Paz in cars and boats, they just want to check in and say hi especially if you are having fun and you look like you have more than 10 dollars.

Be polite, calm, direct and personable with formal introductions, "Hi how are you, very nice to meet you, my name is ______ what is your name and where are you from. what a handsome uniform may I take your picture, click, I can send a copy to your family and boss...", it will go a long way to super quick resolution and if it goes bad, your good behavior and proper docs will make a good case for yourself later in court.

No tickets or accidents (reported) n 15 years!

[Edited on 9-15-2007 by gnukid]

[Edited on 9-16-2007 by gnukid]


All was in oreder and they were never fined. Never went to court. Nothing. Many business owners from San Quintin went to Ensenada and all was deemed to be in order. I know it's hard for you to understand that something like this could happen, it's hard for a lot of us who love Baja but it happened and it was unfounded and unprovoked. All that I have heard about the captain from the folks in San Quintin that are posting on BD is that the captain was a family man who would help anybody without hesitation. Nothing negative from the people who have posted and knew Oscar personally. Only negative's are coming from people like yourself who are speculating what could have happened. I am telling you, believe it or not, that this did happen without provocation. All they were doing was fishing with the proper permits. These were family men and a young man who is ex Navy himself.

Cypress - 9-16-2007 at 01:17 PM

I'm with gnukid on this issue. The boat sank? What caused it to sink, a torpedo, gunnery practice? :o

Roberto - 9-16-2007 at 02:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
I'm with gnukid on this issue. The boat sank? What caused it to sink, a torpedo, gunnery practice? :o


Normally, it would be considered sound practice to HAVE THE FIRST CLUE before you open your mouth. That applies to gnukid as well, but this is often a clue-free zone. :lol::lol::lol::lol:

Picture this - a 30' boat towed close behind a what? 80'+ foot boat. They are going to make it overnight from SQ to Ensenada, so they are moving right along. Seas are almost guaranteed to be on the rough side, given the area and the direction of travel. So, what happens is, THE TOWED BOAT GET SWAMPED AND SINKS.

Cypress - 9-16-2007 at 03:21 PM

Roberto Thanks for the clue. Just didn't realize that's what happens when you get towed thru ruff seas. Somehow I missed that part when being towed in more than once by the coast guard. Thanks again.:no:

BajaNews - 9-16-2007 at 03:48 PM

.

whatsleft.jpg - 44kB

Roberto - 9-16-2007 at 03:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
Roberto Thanks for the clue. Just didn't realize that's what happens when you get towed thru ruff seas. Somehow I missed that part when being towed in more than once by the coast guard. Thanks again.:no:


Well, that's one scenario anyway. Remember, that the Coast Guard gives a $%^@ when towing you.

Also, here is the original post:
Quote:
Originally posted by gnukid
This is basic, happens every day. A boat sank? C'mon. Sank because the navy sank it?


This after all the disbelieving remarks and comments. Thus MY comment about getting a clue. Sounds like some folks here just want to pump each other up about not facing reality. That's fine with me, but, again, know whereof you speak, or you may regret it.

Some of the comments went to far as implying that it was the fault of the fishermen. Even if that were true - does that justify that sort of conduct?


[Edited on 9-16-2007 by Roberto]

Minnow - 9-16-2007 at 04:34 PM

Roberto, of course that is how it went down. Pun intended.

Some of the speculation here is just plain silly.

Cypress, I believe you have been on boats before. I however, have a hard time believing you Captained one. Roberto is a Captain, I am a fair Captain, and to quote one of my favorite captains of all time, Captain Ron." If its going to happen, its going to happen out there". :lol::lol:

bajaguy - 9-16-2007 at 04:41 PM

Nice save on the cleat........:lol::lol::lol:............and I'm also a Captain (retired)!!!

Cypress - 9-16-2007 at 06:19 PM

Lot's of captains on this forum.:) Never been one.:)

Captain Ron." If its going to happen, its going to happen out there".

Sharksbaja - 9-17-2007 at 01:53 AM

:lol::lol::lol:

Oh THAT Cap'n Ron!


:lol::lol::lol:


yea, I'm slow...

flyfishinPam - 9-18-2007 at 08:58 AM

I´m not a captain but if towing a boat in rough seas is risky then why wasn´t personnel put on the boat and it escourted to wherever they had to go? This would have avoided a fiasco. My take on this is that this is extremely scary stuff!

Wiles - 9-18-2007 at 09:17 AM

Pam,

fuel

comitan - 9-18-2007 at 09:18 AM

Since this is continuing my 2 cents, If you pull a boat to fast and it is not secured correctly it will swing side to side and eventually take on water over the gunnel. This is a problem our own Coast Guard had years ago before they turned it over to private concerns, They pulled many cleats, and decks off just because they didn't know how to tow a boat.

JZ - 9-18-2007 at 09:48 AM

The jokes and wise cracks are totally out of line. How would you like it if someone laughed at your mis-fortune. Do you always (or have you always) had your paperwork in 100% order. Do you always walk around with your passport and visa. And does everyone that goes out on a boat with you do the same?

It would really be nice to know the facts that would cause the Navy to act so severly.

[Edited on 9-18-2007 by JZ]

Don Alley - 9-18-2007 at 10:06 AM

OK, my 2 cents:

Why did the navy do this (well documented with witnesses and photos) to fishermen fishing legally with a well known, reputable charter service?

I think they just didn't know the law. They didn't know what they were doing. They didn't know what a proper license looked like, or what other documents are or are not required to be carried. And they did not know how to properly take a boat under tow. There have been other incidents where the Mexican Navy was unsure of the laws.

Ask just about any question here on Baja Nomad. Fideocomisos? Where/How/What for getting an FM-3? How does one get a fishing license in Loreto?:biggrin:Federal Zone setback, environmental permits, importing a vehicle, what can you bring across the border without duty, etc etc etc. You get a ton of answers. Many conflict. And it is hard to find clear, authoritative answers.

So we sometimes wing it and hope for the best. So do some of the authorities in Mexico.

My guess is that the navy folks are embarrased and will do things differently next time. Just a guess, but I guess I'd rather think they were mistake prone rather than cruel.

It does bring to mind the thread on Calderon. I wish the US government would show a bit more concern over the welfare of its citizens traveling abroad. This event took place aboard a former US Navy vessel, and I think the US government should formally ask Mexico for reparations on behalf of the fishermen.

Minnow - 9-18-2007 at 10:17 AM

The truth is, in Mexico the law is but a vague point of reference. The person with the gun determines how and to what degree it will be carried out.

Do you honestly feel the Mexican government has its citizens"backs". Or is just interested in seeing their backs as they head north.:lol:

Roberto - 9-18-2007 at 11:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Don Alley
It does bring to mind the thread on Calderon. I wish the US government would show a bit more concern over the welfare of its citizens traveling abroad. This event took place aboard a former US Navy vessel, and I think the US government should formally ask Mexico for reparations on behalf of the fishermen.


Speaking of Calderon's statement everyone seems to be so upset about - what kind of reparations do you think the Mexicans are going to receive for this? Look, the Americans walked away, unhurt, not the case for the Mexicans.

gnukid - 9-18-2007 at 11:46 AM

I am sorry, it sucks for sure. I know things go horribly wrong with the best professionals due to complications at sea. I have had a slew of problems on the water the last few days. In my case I was able to resolve them and get going, it easy to see how a panga can get swamped, they often have no scuppers, no floatation and no way out of being sunk once the water begins to enter.

Mental note to self: add scuppers and floatation to next panga.

Cypress - 9-18-2007 at 12:54 PM

Regarding all these self-proclaimed captains.:lol: Ever heard of Bob Dillon? A quote "You don't have to be a weatherman to know which way the wind blows";D I'd be curious to know what 'ton" license they hold. :) Just my two cents and the self-proclaimed captains can keep the change.:)

Roberto - 9-18-2007 at 02:26 PM

I hold the self-appointed 100 ton "bite me" license. :lol::lol::lol::lol:

What about you - apparently the one ton open-my-mouth-before-I-know-what-I'm-talking-about license. You are in good company.

Cypress - 9-18-2007 at 02:32 PM

Roberto :biggrin: Yep. I'm fully certified in that catagory.:D

Roberto - 9-18-2007 at 02:35 PM

Good comeback. :cool:

Al G - 9-18-2007 at 03:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Roberto
Good comeback. :cool:

Not the way I see it...this guy is the king of one line post and he should stay in that category. His foot has not been out of his mouth in some time...from dog advice to smoking fish...his best response is always "deny, deny, deny....just like a 12 year old would...:biggrin:


My two cents...I would guess it had nothing to do with dark and gloom...law or lack of... Me thinka this captain needed to get back to Ensenada...I could think of a million reasons why...

BajaWarrior - 9-18-2007 at 03:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Roberto
Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
I'm with gnukid on this issue. The boat sank? What caused it to sink, a torpedo, gunnery practice? :o




Picture this - a 30' boat towed close behind a what? 80'+ foot boat. They are going to make it overnight from SQ to Ensenada, so they are moving right along. Seas are almost guaranteed to be on the rough side, given the area and the direction of travel. So, what happens is, THE TOWED BOAT GET SWAMPED AND SINKS.


I saw that ship in July sitting off of San Quintin Bay. It looked like a Destroyer Escort, so that may put it in the close to 200' long range.

Roberto is right about the 30' cruiser swinging back and forth, in rough seas it would have easily sunk after taking on water.

The whole situation is a shame. Each report of Americans (and Mexicans) being harassed or robbed is giving me second thoughts about currently owning a home or going to Mexico at all.

Otherwise, I love the place.

[Edited on 9-18-2007 by BajaWarrior]

[Edited on 9-18-2007 by BajaWarrior]

Cypress - 9-18-2007 at 03:31 PM

BajaWarrior I get the picture and agree about the whole issue being a shame.
Al G Jeez!:o I've already sworn off dipping dogs in sulfur and oil, will smoke fish the way I want and .....and, mmuhm, ,.. I'm having a hard time thinking with my foot in my mouth.:D

mtgoat666 - 9-18-2007 at 03:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
Ever heard of Bob Dillon?


no. where did you learn how to spell?

DENNIS - 9-18-2007 at 03:57 PM

Yeah. It's Bawb.

Cypress - 9-18-2007 at 05:18 PM

Dennis Thanks.:D
mtgoat666 Correction.:D I meant Bawb Dillon.:)

Don Alley - 9-18-2007 at 05:42 PM

Bob Dillon? Is he related to Marshall Dillon?:biggrin:


THIS STORY TOLD TODAY IN O.C.REGISTER

M - 9-21-2007 at 07:47 PM

I posted this earlier, knowing it would stir up some %$@#$. I didn't know there was already a thread about it even though I looked. Earle Robitaille was quoted extensively in the article. It was on the last page of the sports section in the Orange County, CA. Register. (Someone find the link please). The story is pretty much the same as posted, and Minnow, I bet it will stir up some action. Keep it going, write the editors, one cool thing about the Register is that they OFTEN print well written stories about serious issues. Machine guns, fingers on triggers, ski masks, Navy, 140 miles from San Diego, Hmmm, yep, I do believe this should be stirred long and hard. SOMEBODY CALL JOHN AND KEN AM 640.
If anybody knows those two, the Mex Navy will soon be on their KNEES!

Minnow - 9-22-2007 at 12:18 AM

Michele, I am not seeing your other post, or the article.

No doubt, the whole story needs to come out. If I were to protest I would need to see the Documentation the was "not in order".

Stickers - 9-22-2007 at 05:39 AM

The ski masks show that this was intentional piracy by some criminal captain and his criminal crew.

We obviously should not donate ships or any military equipment to Mexico since the government there cannot prevent it from being used for criminal purposes.

The Captain should be extradited to the United States and prosecuted for crimes against its citizens.

A few years ago a fishing boat out of San Quentine went missing with American tourists from the Los Angeles area. Nothing was ever found of that boat and those poor souls. Now this incident sheds new light on that mystery.

howat - 9-22-2007 at 06:12 AM

Here's a reply on Bloodydecks from a local SQ charterboat captain on this issue. The mexican navy was justified in towing the boat to Ensenada. Here in San Diego I've seen many boats being escorted in, some being towed, by the US Coast Guard into port with their lights flashing.

K&M Offshore Charters San Quintin, MX
http://www.kmoffshore.com

"Heres the black & white: A boat was stopped for a routine inspection, the required papers were not on board (permits for boat & skip) , Navy allowed a boat to bring papers out....(Papers found in order,exept skippers license)....there were still ID issues, navy decides to take the whole show to Ensenada and turn over to Proper Authorities...(Port Capt.) boat being towed sinks in route. Upon arrival after routine phys exam and declaration,all are released.
At this moment EVERY skipper here in San Quintin ,commercial & sport who do not already have their Permit/License are in Ensenada Taking the proper courses for their "ticket" (Including 2 of my sons). I know eveyone will be making sure all their papers are in order and up to par, No one here wants this to happen again. Just like in the USA there are rules and regs for vessels at sea and i know that if your boat gets boarded by Homeland Security and you dont have your vessel permits or correct ID......you will probably get escorted too."

Taco de Baja - 9-22-2007 at 08:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by M
I posted this earlier, knowing it would stir up some %$@#$. I didn't know there was already a thread about it even though I looked. Earle Robitaille was quoted extensively in the article. It was on the last page of the sports section in the Orange County, CA. Register. (Someone find the link please).


I saw that too. You beat me to the post as I was swamped at work yesterday.

Here is the link: http://www.ocregister.com/sports/fishing-boat-ramos-1849605-licenses-navy

It's long, and like you said says essentially the same as has been posted here, so I will not do a copy and paste.

Cypress - 9-22-2007 at 12:52 PM

Something about this just doesn't add up? :O Either the "Captain"/ person in charge of the Mexican ship is a total idiot and being protected by whoever put him in command of a warship or we're not getting the whole story.:):)

DENNIS - 9-22-2007 at 12:56 PM

Commisioned military personel in Mexico are above the law. Good luck demanding justice from a man who attended the Naval Academy.

?

gibson - 9-22-2007 at 01:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Stickers
The ski masks show that this was intentional piracy by some criminal captain and his criminal crew.

We obviously should not donate ships or any military equipment to Mexico since the government there cannot prevent it from being used for criminal purposes.

The Captain should be extradited to the United States and prosecuted for crimes against its citizens.

A few years ago a fishing boat out of San Quentine went missing with American tourists from the Los Angeles area. Nothing was ever found of that boat and those poor souls. Now this incident sheds new light on that mystery.


what?? stretch much?

Above the law?

Dave - 9-22-2007 at 01:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Commisioned military personel in Mexico are above the law. Good luck demanding justice from a man who attended the Naval Academy.


No.

The Mexican military IS the law.

DENNIS - 9-22-2007 at 04:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dave

The Mexican military IS the law.

For sure. Have you read the book, "The Generals in The Palace?" The military schools are manned by the wealthy, student and teacher. I recently had a friend in Ensenada who graduated from the Naval Academy. We were at a home celebration of the New Year and at the sound of the gong, he took out a large pistol and proceeded to shoot up the vacant lot next to my house. I asked him if this could be illegal, and his reply was"So what? Who says I can't do this? I can do anything I want to do."
He wasn't an buttcrack, he was a good man. I hope he is still.
The point is, people like him answer to nobody on a civil level.
The best after-the-fact response we have is a coordinated response to these acts, a contolled rebellion, a development of a voice that will be listened to.
Who out there can envision a movement of P-nche Gringos that have what it takes to organize to the point of being a real voice?
We need this.
We sit here, day after day, witnessing mayhem to our own, Mexicans as well. We see it and say, "Oh gee," and it's gone.
What we have to do is react. We have to organize. We have to think of others over ourselves.
Let's find a way to have a voice. If we don't, keep our complaints to ourselves.
How can we do this? Any ideas?

howat - 9-22-2007 at 08:54 PM

Am I missing something here? The charter boat captain does not have the legal papers to operate the boat and other documentation is suspect so the navy captain decides to tow the boat back to Ensenada to let his superiors sort out the inconsistencies. Just like we do in the USA. If there's an idiot in this story, it's the one(s) on this board who are so arrogant that they think they are all knowing of the circumstances of this event. "Ugly Americans" at their best! I welcome the mexican authorities that are taking the initative and enforcing their maritime/fishing laws EQUALLY all over baja at the objections of law breaking americans and mexicans. I, as a law biding guest in the beautiful country of Mexico and I'm sure others, welcome this new respect for the enforcement of their laws.

HH

DENNIS - 9-23-2007 at 09:16 AM

howat......
Law enforcement is good but, don't you think this case was a bit heavy handed?

Roberto - 9-23-2007 at 12:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by howat
Am I missing something here? The charter boat captain does not have the legal papers to operate the boat and other documentation is suspect so the navy captain decides to tow the boat back to Ensenada to let his superiors sort out the inconsistencies.

It would seem you missed the fact that the boat sank. What do you think would have happened if a skipper had towed a boat back to port to check things out, and the boat had sunk in the process? You really think that's the SOP?

Quote:
Originally posted by howat
If there's an idiot in this story, it's the one(s) on this board who are so arrogant that they think they are all knowing of the circumstances of this event. "Ugly Americans" at their best!


"idiot", "Ugly Americans" - Can't you tone it down a notch or two?

[Edited on 9-23-2007 by Roberto]

marv sherrill - 9-24-2007 at 09:45 PM

what about the ski masks - just a little suspicious...

Cap - 9-24-2007 at 10:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by howat
Am I missing something here? The charter boat captain does not have the legal papers to operate the boat and other documentation is suspect so the navy captain decides to tow the boat back to Ensenada to let his superiors sort out the inconsistencies. Just like we do in the USA. If there's an idiot in this story, it's the one(s) on this board who are so arrogant that they think they are all knowing of the circumstances of this event. "Ugly Americans" at their best! I welcome the mexican authorities that are taking the initative and enforcing their maritime/fishing laws EQUALLY all over baja at the objections of law breaking americans and mexicans. I, as a law biding guest in the beautiful country of Mexico and I'm sure others, welcome this new respect for the enforcement of their laws.

HH

Well said sir!
Personal responsibility is the answer, I am sorry for the drastic consequences of the fairly minor infraction, but what do you expect when you ride the edge of disaster like this?

Others have mentioned the fact that the Navy encounters Narco-tracifficers on a somewhat routine basis. These poor guys don't know what they are up against when they board a boat. I have some experience with this on the Mexican/Guatemalan border. Try fishing/flying /driving/anything down there without your visa, your passport, and a copy of both in your sock. The buck stops with you.

JZ - 9-25-2007 at 12:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by howat
Am I missing something here?


Yeah you are big time. Based on the known facts, it seems like it was very heavy handed.

Hope you (or someone with you) don't ever forget one of your papers/id someday and end up in a world of hurt.

Be sure you always check ALL of the papers of the captain you go out with so you don't end up getting hauled up the coast for hours on end and lose thousands of dollars of your gear. Hope you know of everything to look for and stay current with the changing regs and different interpretations.

You and Cap have zero clue if you don't think it could happen to you someday. I don't give a sh@t how prepared you "think" you are. Come back to us on that day. Maybe we will show a little more sympathy than you two #@$%'s have...

[Edited on 9-25-2007 by JZ]

Crusoe - 9-25-2007 at 07:15 AM

In Defense of the Mexican Navy........The Mexican Navy has a very tough job at hand. There are drug wars going on all over Mexico and alot of the drugs are transferred and shipped by boats of all types.......In 30 years of sailing off the Baja coast and the Mexican mainland engaged in a variety of sail boat delivery jobs, myself and crew have been boarded by the Mexican Navy 7 times. Each time after the initial shake down and they were satisfied with shipspapers/documentation and crew passports we were always treated with respect and kindness. As captain, I always treated each person with the utmost of courtesy and respect. It was always mutual and returned....One time I heard of a tale fisthand in P.V. in Banderas Bay, of an american cruising couple who were returning from a 13 year citcumnavigation that were run down at sea 50 miles east of La Paz in broad daylight, by a 90ft. Mexican shrimper. They made eye contact at the last second with the fisherman. The small yacht went down in less than 5 minets with all their wordly possesions. They were able to grab their ditch bag and activate a very well equiped life raft and spent an anxious 3 hours adrift until they were rescued by the Mexican Navy. The Mexican Navy Captain on returning the folks back to Puerto Vallarta personaly took pity on the folks and loaned them $200 U.S. so they could get a meal and a room for the night. The next day the shrimper was spotted by a mexican Army helicopter on the east side of Isla Santa Catalina offloading a huge amount of pot and coke. The fisherman were busted and the shrimper impounded. So .....all kinds of crap does happen.!!!

Cap - 9-25-2007 at 08:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by JZ
Quote:
Originally posted by howat
Am I missing something here?


Yeah you are big time. Based on the known facts, it seems like it was very heavy handed.

Hope you (or someone with you) don't ever forget one of your papers/id someday and end up in a world of hurt.

Be sure you always check ALL of the papers of the captain you go out with so you don't end up getting hauled up the coast for hours on end and lose thousands of dollars of your gear. Hope you know of everything to look for and stay current with the changing regs and different interpretations.

You and Cap have zero clue if you don't think it could happen to you someday. I don't give a sh@t how prepared you "think" you are. Come back to us on that day. Maybe we will show a little more sympathy than you two #@$%'s have...

[Edited on 9-25-2007 by JZ]


I count only two insults... I thought the more insulting you were the more you were right on this board. :yes:
Cmon, I am sure you can do better than this

[Edited on 9-25-2007 by Cap]

Cap - 9-25-2007 at 08:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Crusoe
In Defense of the Mexican Navy........The Mexican Navy has a very tough job at hand. There are drug wars going on all over Mexico and alot of the drugs are transferred and shipped by boats of all types.......In 30 years of sailing off the Baja coast and the Mexican mainland engaged in a variety of sail boat delivery jobs, myself and crew have been boarded by the Mexican Navy 7 times. Each time after the initial shake down and they were satisfied with shipspapers/documentation and crew passports we were always treated with respect and kindness. As captain, I always treated each person with the utmost of courtesy and respect. It was always mutual and returned....One time I heard of a tale fisthand in P.V. in Banderas Bay, of an american cruising couple who were returning from a 13 year citcumnavigation that were run down at sea 50 miles east of La Paz in broad daylight, by a 90ft. Mexican shrimper. They made eye contact at the last second with the fisherman. The small yacht went down in less than 5 minets with all their wordly possesions. They were able to grab their ditch bag and activate a very well equiped life raft and spent an anxious 3 hours adrift until they were rescued by the Mexican Navy. The Mexican Navy Captain on returning the folks back to Puerto Vallarta personaly took pity on the folks and loaned them $200 U.S. so they could get a meal and a room for the night. The next day the shrimper was spotted by a mexican Army helicopter on the east side of Isla Santa Catalina offloading a huge amount of pot and coke. The fisherman were busted and the shrimper impounded. So .....all kinds of crap does happen.!!!


Good perspective (cruising), thank you.