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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
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San Quintin; Navy detention; sunken boat
Out at sea, the Navy this time:
http://www.bloodydecks.com/forums/baja-mexico-fishing-report...
[Edited on 9-16-2007 by BajaNomad]
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Minnow
Banned
Posts: 1110
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: Lost Wages
Member Is Offline
Mood: Embarrased Harry Reid is a Nevadan
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This is the worst case scenario, and warrants some sort of protest.
Proud husband of a legal immigrant.
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lp2578
Junior Nomad
Posts: 29
Registered: 3-3-2007
Location: Ensenada, Baja Mexico
Member Is Offline
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Mexican Navy Boards then Sinks Boat off San Quintin
Let me start by stating that I am a long time traveler to Baja. I’ve driven and towed my boats from Ensenada to Loreto and all points in between for
more than 30 years. I’ve been reading all the posts about the recent carjackings and robberies lately and I believe as long as you don’t drive at
night you are as safe traveling in Baja as anywhere else in the world. But then I hear first hand of an incident that occurred to a friend of mine
while fishing just off San Quintin this past Tuesday. He is a veteran of Baja and set up a charter with Tito’s Pangas to fish on one of his cabin
cruisers. The price included the fishing license and equipment for the rest of his buddies. On Tuesday Sept 11th my buddy and 3 of the 5 people were
fishing off San Quintin and fishing was slow and while they were out doing some bottom fishing they noticed a Mexican Naval ship in the distance. They
didn’t think much of it and continued to fish. Out of nowhere and to everyone’s surprise a small boat is fast approaching with naval guys in ski masks
with machine guns drawn. They are boarded and asked to produce the proper documents, all this while at gunpoint. The Mexican captain from Tito’s
produces the fishing licenses and boat permit. My buddy and his friends are then asked to produce their passports. They didn’t have their passports on
them and the naval guys accused them of being in the country illegally. In addition to that they claimed that the fishing licenses were invalid due to
a certain stamp missing. According to my buddy, who speaks Spanish, the licenses were stamped and had their names on them. Here’s where it really
get’s scary. The navy orders the captain of the sportfisher (SF) to follow them to the bigger naval boat where they are told to board. The captain of
the SF calls into the owner of Tito’s and informed them what was happening. Luckily there were 2 friends of my buddies that had decided not to fish
that day and they were asked to get the passports. The owner of Tito’s shows up to the naval boat with the only 2 passports that were available. The
Naval Captain (if you could call him that) decides not to let anyone go because 2 of the guys didn’t have passports. They were now being detained for
not having the proper fishing license and for passport violations and that they now have to go to Ensenada and appear in court! Unfrickenbelievable!
They were told that they would be in Ensenada by 8AM the next morning. They try and tie the SF to the big boat according to my buddy and they are
having a hard time doing this. They get underway and it is obvious that the boat is going to sink. They ask they Navy Captain to allow them to remove
their gear which includes, fishing equipment, ice chests, clothes & fish and were told no. About 3AM the boat is taking on water. A couple of
naval personnel jump in the SF and proceed to bail the water out and try to re-rig the tow rope. Around 8AM they are still offshore and the SF is
starting to go down. Long story short (too late I know) the SF starts to sink and all the gear is lost. They finally make it into the Naval base in
Ensenada around 6PM. Prior to being released, and at gunpoint, they were ordered to take a physical and to sign some document, in Spanish, admitting
that they knew they were fishing without a license. They were refusing to sign and asked for an interpreter. The interpreter stated that the document
was an admission of guilt. My buddy signed it and they were let go. No court. No fine. Nothing. The name of the ship “Matamonos”. This ship was
formerly the USS Sage and was given/sold to the Mexican Navy. Also, in the galley, there was a picture of Collin Powell handing the ship over to
Mexican Navy. One of the guys had a small digital camera that he kept hidden.
Has anyone else heard of this incident or had a similar run in with the Mexican Navy.
P.S. Not sure why you need them when entering by land but you may want to start carrying your passports.
[Edited on 9-15-2007 by lp2578]
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lp2578
Junior Nomad
Posts: 29
Registered: 3-3-2007
Location: Ensenada, Baja Mexico
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Don Jorge
Maybe they were smuggling monkeys?  |
Not very funny. I re-posted the story from BD. My friends lost over $2K worth of gear and were held at gun point for the majority of the time and
were afraid for there lives. And they did nothing wrong. I have been driving and towing boats down the Baja for more than 30 years and this
incident is a first for me. With all the car jackings and robberies taking place I hesitate to go back. Bad thing is that I love the Baja and I will
continue to go as much as I can.
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JZ
Select Nomad
Posts: 10564
Registered: 10-3-2003
Member Is Online
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One this I don't understand is why all the talk about passports and no mention of FMT's. I would think they would be asking about visas, but not
passports??
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Crusoe
Senior Nomad
Posts: 731
Registered: 10-14-2006
Member Is Offline
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There is something a little fishy going on here.......The Mexican Navy is always very courteous and helpful to most everyone. Did these fisherman do
something to provoke the treatment they recieved?.... If not, then they need to contact someone in the U.S. Coast in San Diego and file a detailed
report. This incident needs to be investigated and brought to the forfront.!!!!Also they need to notify the Consulate. There are specific "Maritime"
laws that govern activity on the Ocean. (Yes-even while recreational fishing). If they are inocent,then this type of activity must be curtailed and
they are entitled to finacial compensaation. ++C++
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Minnow
Banned
Posts: 1110
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: Lost Wages
Member Is Offline
Mood: Embarrased Harry Reid is a Nevadan
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Crusoe
. If they are inocent,then this type of activity must be curtailed and they are entitled to finacial compensaation. ++C++ |
Crusoe, How's the weather in OZ?
Proud husband of a legal immigrant.
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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
Location: Bat Cave
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sling time!
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"I have said that Mexico does not stop at its border, that wherever there is a Mexican, there is Mexico. "
hahahahahahaha................i like that! so true.
and now i live in mexico full time! finally. my address is Snottsdale, Mexico.
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18388
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | | Out of nowhere and to everyone’s surprise a small boat is fast approaching with naval guys in ski masks with machine guns drawn. They are boarded
and asked to produce the proper documents, all this while at gunpoint. |
me thinks the charter operator/boat owner had a history that prompted the attention. the gringos probably just had bad fortune to choose the wrong
boat...
or maybe the gringos were bad characters that attracted attention, and boat captain had bad fortune to choose the wrong customers.
the navy is usually polite and doesn't react without reason.
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13048
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
Member Is Offline
Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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Sounds very fishy to me but we all know that sheet happens here...so hate to say I told ya so (again) so please everyone, get your papers in order and
get those fishing licenses.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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Boating is fraught with complications and unexpected results based on the crew and captain. Nearly every day things go super haywire on board vessels,
from mechanical to formalities even with the best preparation and people. Every day I am surprised people on board don't follow instructions and
don't take things seriously, (while having fun) thinking someone else will take care of the problems.
Look at this report with the same view one might approach a circumstance anywhere. If you fail to comply 100% with those responsible to enforce the
law you will find yourself suffering and it can be quite serious.
In San Francisco and throughout California while boating we are often approached by law enforcement, military, etc... (all with newfound guns and
power) on armed vessels at full speed weapons drawn on turrets and no chance for discussion. Often they pull away at the final moment, sometimes they
don't
In Mexico, I live with marines and naval people. Mexican Military are highly trained to be professional and systematic, of the highest level of
professionalism without aggression, beyond reproach, though its quite easy for anyone to make mistakes. I can see that if you fail to provide some
id, and proper fishing licenses promptly or falsely you will be detained and you will likely loose something in the process.
The circumstances are not so strange, quite the opposite from the tone of bloodydecks, such efforts may benefit all of us if in fact the rule of law
was being enforced which more than likely it was, no visas, no valid fishing license. Every boat capt is the same, they hold blank licenses for each
fisherman until the navy boats finally arrive one day and then fill them out and charge the fisherman the money for a license anyway. Thats 15 bucks
more per person per day, 4 fisherman = $60 bucks/day permit approximately.
FYI I carry two fishing valid licences, cause I expect to lose one, one in the boat and one at in my wallet plus copies of everything in sealed
envelopes in sealed plastic in every vehicle, boat and at home. I actually take velcro and peel and stick it to the bag of docs and glue it to the
inside of the boat so it is always there regardless of rogue waves. I review these packets every 6 months. You can make these travel packs at home in
about 5 minutes and put them everywhere, so they are easily provided at any moment plus trade them with a good friend whose phone number you memorize.
It allows me the freedom to go where I want with confidence without ever thinking about it again. It might sound paranoid to you, but when the s---
goes down I remain quite confident which makes it all go better, fast. There have been many many times when I was stopped three times in a day in the
area of La Paz in cars and boats, they just want to check in and say hi especially if you are having fun and you look like you have more than 10
dollars.
Be polite, calm, direct and personable with formal introductions, "Hi how are you, very nice to meet you, my name is ______ what is your name and
where are you from. what a handsome uniform may I take your picture, click, I can send a copy to your family and boss...", it will go a long way to
super quick resolution and if it goes bad, your good behavior and proper docs will make a good case for yourself later in court.
No tickets or accidents (reported) n 15 years!
[Edited on 9-15-2007 by gnukid]
[Edited on 9-16-2007 by gnukid]
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comitan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4177
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: La Paz
Member Is Offline
Mood: mellow
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If their attitude was the same as the posters on BD you can understand why this happened. You cannot go into a foreign country with an attitude the
people in charge will make you humble!!!!!!!!!!!
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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Mexray
Super Nomad
Posts: 1016
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: California Delta
Member Is Offline
Mood: Baja Time
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I've been boarded by the Mexican Navy...
...in a small boat on the Pacific coast, as I ventured into Mexican waters from the South.
This was about 15 years ago, and I realize things change, but...it was still a tense situation out there in open waters, miles from the coast!
They shadowed us for about an hour before hailing us to stop and prepare to be boarded. There were three sailors and an officer in a small
inflatable that came 'bouncing' over to our 65' power catamaran. There were no ski masks...but their M-16's were displayed prominently! One sailor
remained in their boat while the other three boarded to look over our papers.
We had a couple of rifles on board (it was a long delivery voyage) that we stashed away so we wouldn't have to deal with that aspect of our
'inspection' on the high seas.
We were cordial toward them, even though they tramped around our vessel wearing their thick, black rubber soled boots! We did have all our papers and
ID's, etc. in order for the office to look over. There was a cursory search to see if we had stacks of drugs on board somewhere, I suppose.
The whole process took about a half hour as I remember, then they left, bobbing through the waves back to their mother ship...which was spooky, as it
had no visible markings or name...only a small Mexican flag flying atop the rigging.
Like other have said above...if you're going out fishing, keep your papers close at hand, not back in the pickup's glove box!
That story above does sound somewhat 'fishy' in that the Navy towed them, instead of just instructing them to follow the Naval vessel. Also, what
about the other boat that brought the passports out to them...wasn't that boat available to take some of the gear off the floundering vessel? There's
some unanswered questions here...I'm thinking there was some 'resistance' to the Navy's boarding, etc. for them to be 'towed' back to port in that
manner.
According to my clock...anytime is \'BAJA TIME\' & as Jimmy Buffett says,
\"It doesn\'t use numbers or moving hands It always just says now...\"
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Minnow
Banned
Posts: 1110
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: Lost Wages
Member Is Offline
Mood: Embarrased Harry Reid is a Nevadan
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EVERYBoDY, Lets leave the speculation in the real estate section. This is some serious CaCa.
Proud husband of a legal immigrant.
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bacquito
Super Nomad
Posts: 1615
Registered: 3-6-2007
Member Is Offline
Mood: jubilado
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The fact that the military personel were armed is not surprising-at all the military check points on the highways the military is armed. What bothers
me is that some look to be very young. My stepson is 32 and looks to be 18!!
bacquito
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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This is basic, happens every day. A boat sank? C'mon. Sank because the navy sank it?
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BajaNews
Super Moderator
Posts: 1439
Registered: 12-11-2005
Member Is Offline
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http://www.chava.smugmug.com/gallery/3481616
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lp2578
Junior Nomad
Posts: 29
Registered: 3-3-2007
Location: Ensenada, Baja Mexico
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
Boating is fraught with complications and unexpected results based on the crew and captain. Nearly every day things go super haywire on board vessels,
from mechanical to formalities even with the best preparation and people. Every day I am surprised people on board don't follow instructions and
don't take things seriously, (while having fun) thinking someone else will take care of the problems.
Look at this report with the same view one might approach a circumstance anywhere. If you fail to comply 100% with those responsible to enforce the
law you will find yourself suffering and it can be quite serious.
In San Francisco and throughout California while boating we are often approached by law enforcement, military, etc... (all with newfound guns and
power) on armed vessels at full speed weapons drawn on turrets and no chance for discussion. Often they pull away at the final moment, sometimes they
don't
In Mexico, I live with marines and naval people. Mexican Military are highly trained to be professional and systematic, of the highest level of
professionalism without aggression, beyond reproach, though its quite easy for anyone to make mistakes. I can see that if you fail to provide some
id, and proper fishing licenses promptly or falsely you will be detained and you will likely loose something in the process.
The circumstances are not so strange, quite the opposite from the tone of bloodydecks, such efforts may benefit all of us if in fact the rule of law
was being enforced which more than likely it was, no visas, no valid fishing license. Every boat capt is the same, they hold blank licenses for each
fisherman until the navy boats finally arrive one day and then fill them out and charge the fisherman the money for a license anyway. Thats 15 bucks
more per person per day, 4 fisherman = $60 bucks/day permit approximately.
FYI I carry two fishing valid licences, cause I expect to lose one, one in the boat and one at in my wallet plus copies of everything in sealed
envelopes in sealed plastic in every vehicle, boat and at home. I actually take velcro and peel and stick it to the bag of docs and glue it to the
inside of the boat so it is always there regardless of rogue waves. I review these packets every 6 months. You can make these travel packs at home in
about 5 minutes and put them everywhere, so they are easily provided at any moment plus trade them with a good friend whose phone number you memorize.
It allows me the freedom to go where I want with confidence without ever thinking about it again. It might sound paranoid to you, but when the s---
goes down I remain quite confident which makes it all go better, fast. There have been many many times when I was stopped three times in a day in the
area of La Paz in cars and boats, they just want to check in and say hi especially if you are having fun and you look like you have more than 10
dollars.
Be polite, calm, direct and personable with formal introductions, "Hi how are you, very nice to meet you, my name is ______ what is your name and
where are you from. what a handsome uniform may I take your picture, click, I can send a copy to your family and boss...", it will go a long way to
super quick resolution and if it goes bad, your good behavior and proper docs will make a good case for yourself later in court.
No tickets or accidents (reported) n 15 years!
[Edited on 9-15-2007 by gnukid]
[Edited on 9-16-2007 by gnukid] |
All was in oreder and they were never fined. Never went to court. Nothing. Many business owners from San Quintin went to Ensenada and all was
deemed to be in order. I know it's hard for you to understand that something like this could happen, it's hard for a lot of us who love Baja but it
happened and it was unfounded and unprovoked. All that I have heard about the captain from the folks in San Quintin that are posting on BD is that
the captain was a family man who would help anybody without hesitation. Nothing negative from the people who have posted and knew Oscar personally.
Only negative's are coming from people like yourself who are speculating what could have happened. I am telling you, believe it or not, that this did
happen without provocation. All they were doing was fishing with the proper permits. These were family men and a young man who is ex Navy himself.
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
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I'm with gnukid on this issue. The boat sank? What caused it to sink, a torpedo, gunnery practice? 
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Roberto
Banned
Posts: 2162
Registered: 9-5-2003
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cypress
I'm with gnukid on this issue. The boat sank? What caused it to sink, a torpedo, gunnery practice? |
Normally, it would be considered sound practice to HAVE THE FIRST CLUE before you open your mouth. That applies to gnukid as well, but this is often a
clue-free zone.
Picture this - a 30' boat towed close behind a what? 80'+ foot boat. They are going to make it overnight from SQ to Ensenada, so they are moving right
along. Seas are almost guaranteed to be on the rough side, given the area and the direction of travel. So, what happens is, THE TOWED BOAT GET SWAMPED
AND SINKS.
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