BajaNomad - Question for Trailer/towing pros

Question for Trailer/towing pros

Santiago - 9-21-2007 at 03:32 PM

Ok hear me out on this:
Boat + motor + gear about 1850 pounds.
Single axle EZloader with P185X13 tires.

After many miles of watching my outside tire on or even outside of the white line and knowing the likely result of dropping the outside tire off the pavement I have come up with the following:

Weld a spindle to the inside of the frame, just behind the axle and mount a tire that would free wheel but act as a saftey wheel incase the outside tire does go off. The whole point would be to let this tire keep the trailer 'on the road' and allow me to slow down until I could get the outside tire back on the pavement. I got up enough courage to take this idea to my local trailer shop and they didn't throw me out - in fact we ended up with all the employees gathered round with everybody talking, drawing and arguing until we finally solved everyone's objections. Cost about $500.

Is this doable or do I need to find another trailer shop?

Hook - 9-21-2007 at 04:14 PM

I have had the scenario that you describe happen to me and its not the out of control scene that you might think. Yeah, the tire was destroyed and the rim was pretty bent but I was able to ease off the highway and change it. Replaced the tire and had the rim bent back at the next town.

I dont think I would spend 500 on it. Even with the secondary wheel, that first tire is gonna be toast if the pavement edge in severe.

Are they bracing the spindle at all or just welding it to the top of the frame or what?

Diver - 9-21-2007 at 04:27 PM

I would definitely consider changing over to at least 14" if not 15' tires.
The little ones will hit the potholes much harder. If you're looking for a safely device, consider welding on a skid plate of sorts that guards your shock mount etc.

If you do want to mount a 'wheel' I would use a small hard wheel on a short spindle mounted within an angled skid plate or bar similar to those on the back of camp trailers.

.

.

jerry - 9-21-2007 at 05:46 PM

put 6-8-10ply tires on it they wont shread trailer tires are the worst tires i have ever run
your extra tires or a skid plate might help
i just drive in the center of my lane and dont worry about it i driven 102 wide moterhomes 36 ft long no problem just gotta stay in the middell and dont freak

Roberto - 9-21-2007 at 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Diver
If you're looking for a safely device, consider welding on a skid plate of sorts that guards your shock mount etc.

You have shocks on your boat trailer?

Diver - 9-21-2007 at 06:59 PM

OK springs.
I did have shocks on the trailer for my 26 footer.

.

Roberto - 9-21-2007 at 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jerry
put 6-8-10ply tires on it they wont shread trailer tires are the worst tires i have ever run

Bad idea! Trailer (ST) bias ply are made that way for a reason - the stiffer sidewall minimizes sway.

Roberto - 9-21-2007 at 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook
Are they bracing the spindle at all or just welding it to the top of the frame or what?

This is a critical question. If the answer is no, you may have a catastrophic failure.

I would not spend the money. Just don't drive off the road. :lol:

Bob and Susan - 9-21-2007 at 07:27 PM

just get new tires even if 13 inch

you are ok with the weight you are pulling

drive slow
stay in the middle unless a car is comming
slow way down if you have trouble with trucks

sometimes i almost stop if trucks seens too close

if you drive slow you won't fall off the road with an 1850 pound boat and trailer

just have fun and relax

the road is not as bad as ten years ago
there's very few pot holes now on mex1

jerry - 9-21-2007 at 07:41 PM

ROBERTO they use radial tires on trailers all the time up to 12 ply
the biasply tires are old fasion heat up and blow out
the radials give a smooth ride and dont heat up
by increasing the size of the wheel you will also reduce the speed of the bearings thous KEEPING COOLER and lasting longer

Bob and Susan - 9-21-2007 at 07:45 PM

jerry you're right but it's an 1850 pound (fully loaded) Single axle EZloader...

no sweat if the tires are good
no changes required

comitan - 9-21-2007 at 07:48 PM

Larger tires with raise the center of gravity=more load on the sidewall, raise the trailer requiring deeper water at the launching ramp.

jerry - 9-21-2007 at 07:49 PM

i agree but if hes gona buy tires might as well get heavy ply so they dont shread

Bob and Susan - 9-21-2007 at 07:50 PM

the WHOLE thing weighs 1850 pounds LOADED

regular radials will do the trick
the roads a good

toneart - 9-21-2007 at 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook
I have had the scenario that you describe happen to me and its not the out of control scene that you might think. Yeah, the tire was destroyed and the rim was pretty bent but I was able to ease off the highway and change it. Replaced the tire and had the rim bent back at the next town.

I dont think I would spend 500 on it. Even with the secondary wheel, that first tire is gonna be toast if the pavement edge in severe.

Are they bracing the spindle at all or just welding it to the top of the frame or what?

Hook,
I think you were lucky to have been on a stretch of road where you could "ease it off the highway". Unfortunately, the rusted shell of vehicles and many crosses and monuments are a testament to those who weren't so lucky. I do agree that if you can make a plan before an emergency arises, to ease it off the road, you have a better chance.....if it is possible. Most people panic and overcorrect, thus overturning.

Santiago,
I think the concept is great. I am in no way an expert on how that would be engineered. Get a consensus from mechanics.
If you do decide to go with the inside wheel, test it out for us and report.

If you survive, patent it and make a fortune. You could go around looking like this guy >>>>>>>>> :biggrin:

Roberto - 9-21-2007 at 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jerry
ROBERTO they use radial tires on trailers all the time up to 12 ply
the biasply tires are old fasion heat up and blow out
the radials give a smooth ride and dont heat up
by increasing the size of the wheel you will also reduce the speed of the bearings thous KEEPING COOLER and lasting longer

BS. My trailer + boat weigh close to 13,000 lbs. Triple axle. I run trailer (ST-bias ply) tires. I've towed up and down the peninsula, and on the mainland for thousands of miles.

That sais, it's true that the stiff sidewall only helps on heavier weights, and is probably not a factor in this case - I hadn't noticed the weight in the original post.

[Edited on 9-22-2007 by Roberto]

jerry - 9-21-2007 at 09:07 PM

Roberto my brothers boat weighs 16000 lb 31 ft with 10 and a half foot beam and we to have towed it all over Canada Washington Oregon California Arziona main land Mexico and Baja for 10s of thousands of miles 3 axel trailer and the only time we blew tires were new bias
plus many other trailers and fifthwheels with no radial tire problems

if you have swaying problems you need more tounge wieght

Roberto - 9-21-2007 at 09:16 PM

Jerry - I guess your (brother's) ding-a-ling is bigger than mine. :lol:

The point is that you are wrong. ST tires are designed for a specific purpose, and do NOT shred "just because". Radial tires can work, but they are not needed on trailers (the additional flex gives more traction, but that is not necessary on non-drive wheels), and DO increase sway. There are ways around that, of course. Stating that "you should use ST tires because they will shred" is absurd. I, and many others, are proof of that. Now, can we get back to the original programming?

Roberto - 9-21-2007 at 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by soulpatch
Santiago, how wide is your trailer?....@ 1850 lbs total weight I can't imagine it is any wider than your tow vehicle, although I am wrong often. I wouldn't even worry about it. The whole road to your place is not even that narrow anymore and it seems like shoulders are getting added all the time.

You may be wrong often, but you get to the core of the question. Of course, you are right. I came to this thread peeed off about a really stupid comment on another thread.

All this falls apart if he is towing this this with a compact car (or an Isuzu Amigo)

.

[Edited on 9-22-2007 by Roberto]

Paulina - 9-21-2007 at 09:29 PM

Santiago,

Simple solution. Just let your wife drive.

P<*)))><

jerry - 9-21-2007 at 10:16 PM

Roberto why dont you go try to convence all the semi operators with doubles and triples trailers that they should be using bias tires you will get laughed out of town radials are load carring and the sidewall flex so they dont heat up and blow out
i have all so driven semi for a number of years and i was so glad when radial replaced them old rag tires
on this little boat trailer it wont make much difference but a heaver tire might survive the curbs and edges along the hiway better

BajaWarrior - 9-21-2007 at 10:22 PM

Santiago,

Answer to original question:

Buy two new trailer rated tires for your trailer and carry two spares.

Have a good trip.

Santiago - 9-22-2007 at 08:29 AM

Thanks for input and suggestions. I'm inclined to do nothing as my tow weight is light and I do carry 2 spares and I mostly go to BOLA. What really got my attention is on my last trip I passed a fully loaded car carrier twice - those suckers a way wide. My outside tire was over the white line and my passenger was screaming. If I ever see one again I'm stopping to go look at the backside of some cacti.

Gadget - 9-22-2007 at 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Santiago
Ok hear me out on this:
Boat + motor + gear about 1850 pounds.
Single axle EZloader with P185X13 tires.

After many miles of watching my outside tire on or even outside of the white line and knowing the likely result of dropping the outside tire off the pavement I have come up with the following:

Weld a spindle to the inside of the frame, just behind the axle and mount a tire that would free wheel but act as a saftey wheel incase the outside tire does go off. The whole point would be to let this tire keep the trailer 'on the road' and allow me to slow down until I could get the outside tire back on the pavement. I got up enough courage to take this idea to my local trailer shop and they didn't throw me out - in fact we ended up with all the employees gathered round with everybody talking, drawing and arguing until we finally solved everyone's objections. Cost about $500.

Is this doable or do I need to find another trailer shop?

For what its worth, and I have done alot of suspension fabricating, I think it's a great idea as long as the fabrication is well thought out and done soundly. You sure wouldn't want that wheel assembly to break loose under there. It could take the whole axel out as it left the trailer.
Hey, why not just shorten the axel on that side and make it a dually. Could track kinda funny but it's just metal and welding, sounds fun to give it a try

Barry A. - 9-22-2007 at 04:56 PM

My 2 cents worth-----

My Whaler weighs about the same as your boat------I changed the 13 inch rims to 15 inch rims that were 7 inches wide with a "spider" offset to the outside, and put some good fat off road rated radials on---------with the off-set, the wide tires barely miss the springs/frame but at least they don't stick out on either side of the trailer much. I carry lower pressure in the tires (about 26 lbs in mine) so they absorb pot holes and rocks-----I have no sway problems, and have a tongue weight of about 100 lbs.. I have installed shocks on my boat trailer axle (had to have the mounts fabricated), which helps in preserving the springs (always your weakest point on a trailer), and keeps it from bottoming out on dirt roads.

It works good for me------and I have dropped the trailer off the road several times with no real problems other than a lot of dust and scaring the H--- out of me. :lol:

I am willing to put up with the increased difficulty in launching since the boat is higher off the ground. If it is a really shallow launch site, (only happend twice) I just unhook the trailer and push it out deeper into the water, retrieving it with my winch, or a chain-----everything is a tradeoff. You can get a LOADED trailer out of the shallow water the same way (at the end of a chain), tho it is awkward. Do NOT have your tongue wheel down if you unhook the trailer for launch, or retrieve------it will get torn off if you do, most likely---it was NOT designed to roll over rocks, or deal with huge cracks in the Baja "ramps". :lol:

BajaBruno - 9-22-2007 at 06:55 PM

For the record, my vote is with Toneart and Gadget. I think it's a great idea. I've towed up and down the penninsula, and as my little mind is prone to wander now and again, it scares the wits out of me when I look back and half the right tread is hanging over an 18" drop. I'd spend the $500 on a well engineered solution.

jerry - 9-22-2007 at 11:38 PM

if you need the precausion go to a spring installer and have them make a oval spring to mount on your axel to clear the pavment by 2 inchs or so it will make a lot of sparks but will keep it up till you get back on the road unless your planning on not staying on the road?? :biggrin:

Bob and Susan - 9-23-2007 at 07:35 AM

wow IMHO...

by puttin two wheels on one side would unbalance the trailer and it could flip at high speed
especially becaure the whole load is ONLY 1850 pounds

one side would be considerably lighter and the whole thing would be unbalanced

a "whosh" of air from BIG semi could flip the thing...maybe

building a trailer takes engineering skills NOT a garage welder :light:

but... i'm NOT an engineer

that's just my take

i wouldn't do it

BajaBruno - 9-23-2007 at 01:21 PM

B & S,
how would it be any different (heavier) than mounting a spare tire/wheel/hub on that side? Everyone does that with no ill effects. or having 100# of gear on one side of the boat?

Bob and Susan - 9-23-2007 at 02:56 PM

i think since the trailer is being pulled from the center of the truck...
at the toung

it would create more drag on that side...
thus pulling weird

in fact i see it swaying back and forth at higher speed

it's different from weight inside a "balanced" trailer

remember i'm NOT an engineer :no:

but...i have NEVER seen ANY truck or car built with two wheels on one side and one on the other EVER :no:

there MUST be a reason :smug:

tripledigitken - 9-23-2007 at 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roberto

BS. My trailer + boat weigh close to 13,000 lbs. Triple axle. I run trailer (ST-bias ply) tires. I've towed up and down the peninsula, and on the mainland for thousands of miles.

What boat is that? That's a load for Baja.

Ken

edinnopolo - 9-23-2007 at 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob and Susan

...i have NEVER seen ANY truck or car built with two wheels on one side and one on the other EVER :no:

Maybe he's talking about an extra wheel on both sides. Don't forget that when you pass , your left wheel is the one threatening to go off the pavement. So, maybe makes lots of sense after all.

bearbait1 - 9-23-2007 at 10:42 PM

Well, I've driven the road a few times so I know your concern. Whether your solution is worth the trouble or not, you are to be commended for the idea. Thanks for sharing it.

4baja - 9-28-2007 at 05:54 AM

jim, check your U2U.