BajaNomad

Feds answer attacks with police surge

SUNDOG - 9-26-2007 at 09:37 AM

Feds answer attacks with police surge





By Anna Cearley
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER

September 26, 2007



TIJUANA – One hundred fifty federal preventive police officers were sent to Tijuana yesterday in reaction to two separate attacks Monday night against state and federal law enforcement officials that left an officer and a civilian dead.
Rodolfo Cruz López, who oversees Mexico's federal preventive police force, flew in from Mexico City to announce the arrival of the additional officers. He said 350 more officers will arrive in the coming days.

He said they will coordinate investigations with state law enforcement groups, and suggested the violence may be in reaction to the detention this month of kidnappers suspected of being linked to the region's Arellano Félix drug cartel.

“For every action, there is a corresponding reaction,” Cruz said. “These people don't just stand with their arms crossed.”

Monday's attacks were notable for their level of violence within a short time.

The agent killed in the first attack, which occurred about 8:30 p.m., was identified as Ricardo Rosas Alvarado, 30. He was found dead inside a bullet-riddled car in the parking lot of the Plaza Monarca shopping mall, state authorities said.

The second attack happened two hours later in another part of the city, in the neighborhood of Francisco Villa. Two federal preventive police officers and one civilian were wounded, and another bystander was killed, Cruz said.

That attack took place in front of a building used by the state civil protection agency, which coordinates responses during floods and other natural disasters.



Arturo ******, a civil protection worker, said the federal preventive police use a portion of the building as a dormitory.
Ramón López, who lives nearby, said four or five cars pulled up to the building and gunmen started shooting. Those vehicles left, but more cars arrived and the people in them also opened fire, López said. He estimated that about 200 shots were fired.

The attack lasted about 20 minutes, López said, though other versions put it at 10 minutes.

Juan Pérez, a local businessman, said the shootout between officers and gangsters continued at nearby locations, including where he was, in front of a supermarket several blocks away. He said he ran to his car and climbed inside for cover as other bystanders tried to escape.

It's unclear whether the shooting and the killing of Rosas were related. The attacks came just days after the slaying of state preventive officer Carlos Horacio Morales Méndez, gunned down Saturday morning in front of his house in Tijuana.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anna Cearley: (619) 542-4595; anna.cearley@uniontrib.com

toneart - 9-26-2007 at 10:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SUNDOG
Feds answer attacks with police surge





By Anna Cearley
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER

September 26, 2007



TIJUANA – One hundred fifty federal preventive police officers were sent to Tijuana yesterday in reaction to two separate attacks Monday night against state and federal law enforcement officials that left an officer and a civilian dead.
Rodolfo Cruz López, who oversees Mexico's federal preventive police force, flew in from Mexico City to announce the arrival of the additional officers. He said 350 more officers will arrive in the coming days.

He said they will coordinate investigations with state law enforcement groups, and suggested the violence may be in reaction to the detention this month of kidnappers suspected of being linked to the region's Arellano Félix drug cartel.

“For every action, there is a corresponding reaction,” Cruz said. “These people don't just stand with their arms crossed.”

Monday's attacks were notable for their level of violence within a short time.

The agent killed in the first attack, which occurred about 8:30 p.m., was identified as Ricardo Rosas Alvarado, 30. He was found dead inside a bullet-riddled car in the parking lot of the Plaza Monarca shopping mall, state authorities said.

The second attack happened two hours later in another part of the city, in the neighborhood of Francisco Villa. Two federal preventive police officers and one civilian were wounded, and another bystander was killed, Cruz said.

That attack took place in front of a building used by the state civil protection agency, which coordinates responses during floods and other natural disasters.



Arturo ******, a civil protection worker, said the federal preventive police use a portion of the building as a dormitory.
Ramón López, who lives nearby, said four or five cars pulled up to the building and gunmen started shooting. Those vehicles left, but more cars arrived and the people in them also opened fire, López said. He estimated that about 200 shots were fired.

The attack lasted about 20 minutes, López said, though other versions put it at 10 minutes.

Juan Pérez, a local businessman, said the shootout between officers and gangsters continued at nearby locations, including where he was, in front of a supermarket several blocks away. He said he ran to his car and climbed inside for cover as other bystanders tried to escape.

It's unclear whether the shooting and the killing of Rosas were related. The attacks came just days after the slaying of state preventive officer Carlos Horacio Morales Méndez, gunned down Saturday morning in front of his house in Tijuana.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anna Cearley: (619) 542-4595; anna.cearley@uniontrib.com


I hope these federal preventive police can be made aware of the attacks on tourists on the TJ-Rosarito-Ensenada corridor.:fire:

Diver - 9-26-2007 at 11:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hose A
The state preventive officer Carlos Mendez left a wife, a 3 year old child and a 1 month old baby.


Hose A,

Sad thanks for keeping us informed of the "human" side.

.

Hook - 9-26-2007 at 11:19 AM

What kind of financial protection does Mexico provide for the family of deceased officers? I hope it is significant; otherwise, it plays into the hands of the criminals.

Minnow - 9-26-2007 at 11:27 AM

toneart, I often wonder why some posters make giant quotes of that was just posted.:?:

DianaT - 9-26-2007 at 12:36 PM

The violence has been so sad for the families---really sorry to hear that another young man doing his job became a senseless victim. I also hope that the families are taken care of financially, but it cannot erase the loss.

So sad---hope the surge of police helps

Diane

Diver - 9-26-2007 at 12:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hose A
I often wonder why anyone would think the state and federal officers would care about a few gringos getting robbed when the officers themselves are being killed in the streets, in their homes and in their barracks


I would hope that we all understand the primary need for the Mexican police to work towards their own safety and their own local and national security. The in-fighting and law fighting actions of the drug lords and gangs need to be the first priority beyond their own personal safety. All else will follow.
We, as visitors, may be somewhat important to Baja's economy but for one, we are just visitors (not as important as family and friends to most anyone) and 2, how can we expect any actions on our behalf when they are fighting for their lives and the lives of their children ?
Best hopes and wishes to those that are fighting the fight.

.

Hook - 9-26-2007 at 12:57 PM

I would say the fight is the same, no matter the victims. Deter the perps and ALL potential victims will benefit.

toneart - 9-26-2007 at 02:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Minnow
toneart, I often wonder why some posters make giant quotes of that was just posted.:?:


Yeah, you're right. Often a quote is necessary to identify to what the poster is referring. In the case of the long topic that was posted at the top, my quoting it was unnecessary. Just a habit. Sorry.

The loss of any life is a tragedy and it is sad to hear of a police officer with a young family murdered. My sympathies are with them in spirit.

Hose A,
True, the officers are defending their own lives, but I believe that the armed robberies of tourists are related to the cartel turf war.....same perps... fattening their coffers and at the same time, making a statement to the police. The federal police were sent there for a purpose; to quell the violence and the drug trafficking. If their attention is drawn to the violence on tourists, Bingo, that is where they can catch some of them. They, in numbers can do what the TJ police are afraid to do. And I would hope they care about tourists. It is their job to protect them as well.

Also, I would hope that no one would post anything cynical or sarcastic about the loss of a human's life.

Natalie Ann - 9-26-2007 at 02:21 PM

So the night before last the barracks for the federal police stationed in Tijuana was attacked by armed gunmen who shot up the place for either 10-20 minutes per reports? Sounds to me like a move to open warfare by the cartel(s). This is pretty scarey.

I'm with Hook, I believe that if the good guys are able to hold up to this battle and win then we tourists will benefit.

And Hose A... I especially pray for your step-son and his fellow officers.

Nena

JESSE - 9-26-2007 at 03:23 PM

Its a full and total drug war betwen two cartels, sadly the state and fed cops support one cartel, and the municipal another. There is an unwritten code betwen cops and drugdealers, if the cops arrest criminals from one cartel, doing their job, its ok. But if they target the criminals from one cartel in favor of another, then the Police themselves become the targets.

Minnow - 9-26-2007 at 03:25 PM

Tone, I was just wondering if everyone understood how to crop a quote so as to not include the irrelevant parts.

Speaking of irrelevant. I wonder who is the more desired poster, someone who has a wealth of knowledge, a love of Baja, and shares it freely. With the occasional sarcastic comment. Or someone who knows very little about Baja. And is basically a crimudgen. :lol:

As for this story that was posted in the news section. Mexico is in the throws of a civil war. People are going to get killed. Anyone who joins the police force does so knowing this. The risks are great, but ahhhh, the mordida must be worth it.

Hook - 9-26-2007 at 04:24 PM

Newt ?????

Isn't that a low, amphibian life form?

You want a lowly amphibian for President, Tom?

I understand some feed on minnows...........very peculiar.

Minnow - 9-26-2007 at 04:50 PM

Hook, are you making your case for being the first type of poster I mentioned above.:lol:

Mango - 9-26-2007 at 04:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hose A
I often wonder why anyone would think the state and federal officers would care about a few gringos getting robbed when the officers themselves are being killed in the streets, in their homes and in their barracks


Yep, a few robberies are just a footnote to the problems going on now in Mexico. Who deserves more protection? The 3 year old Mexican child whose current destiny was merely determined by his place of his birth, or an wealthy forginer who has the option to travel and be where they wish? It it expessially sad when you consider the drug cartels are mainly feeding the habits of people north of the border.

The store owned by the mother of my girlfriend in DF was robbed the other night by three gunman. It's the same store, right next to her mothers house in a nice middle class barrio, where her father was gunned down and died in my girlfriends arms just 4 years ago. The tourists problems amount to very little compared to the pain and suffering that the average Mexican citizen has to deal with.

Hose A, we all appreciate what your step-son is doing and our thoughts are with him and his comrades. He is a good Mexican and Mexico remains a great country because of people like him. Amen.

Hook - 9-26-2007 at 05:24 PM

Jesse's post is very disturbing...........the police institutions THEMSELVES taking sides in the conflict??? I had thought it was individuals within the force, making individual choices.

oldhippie - 9-26-2007 at 05:29 PM

And let us not forget why all this is happening.

American drug addicts.

woody with a view - 9-26-2007 at 05:30 PM

Quote:

The store owned by the mother of my girlfriend in DF was robbed the other night by three gunman. It's the same store, right next to her mothers house in a nice middle class barrio, where her father was gunned down and died in my girlfriends arms just 4 years ago. The tourists problems amount to very little compared to the pain and suffering that the average Mexican citizen has to deal with.



Too sad!!!! my condolences.

when will the average Mexican stand up and say, "ENOUGH!" and quit being the "poor neighbor to the south" that feeds the gringo what they want, save for all the immigrants?

bajabound2005 - 9-26-2007 at 07:07 PM

Has anyone seen the film ENTRE LLAMAS? If not, rent it from Netflix. Hose A: did we not give you a copy? If not, I'll get you one. This film tells the story of police corruption here like you've never seen it (but read about); made by one of our friends here in Baja...

Bajafun777 - 9-26-2007 at 07:36 PM

Ok, if this forum really cares why not start a collection for the police officer's family who was killed!! I give monies to a number of charities but I would be willing to put some money in. Maybe say a minimum of $40 and you can give up to what your little "pea picking heart" desires. It could be given in name of the BajaNomad group, money could be sent to Dennis and he could get with maybe the Mexican Counsul to personally give it to the widow. I am ready to throw some money in let's toss it around and see if at least 60 Nomads want to do something for the law enforcement group that is trying to do something to take the streets back. Later======bajafun777

bacquito - 9-26-2007 at 08:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by oldhippie
And let us not forget why all this is happening.

American drug addicts.


Your right and we also sell them guns!!

Good Idea !

tortuga - 9-26-2007 at 08:18 PM

Baja Fun 777 ,
Good Idea . We would like to donate . Please let us know the specifics . Thankyou , Tortuga

Bajafun777 - 9-26-2007 at 10:18 PM

Well, we just need to get at least 60 donations to at least make it a useful donation for a family that just lost a husband, a father, a breadwinner, and a protector of the community. Hope others will also jump in and again since Baja Nomad is Dennis's baby, he would need to be in for it so monies could be sent to his site designated for this Mexican police officer's family. Now, if we can just get 58 more donators, right????? Later--- bajafun777

toneart - 9-26-2007 at 10:35 PM

I would be glad to chip in. Good idea. I think the most expedient way to do it is for some Nomad with a business to run it through Pay Pal on their website. This was done quickly just after the Mulege flood. I'm not sure how Dennis was elected or if he can or wants to set it up. Who has a business?

Mango - 9-26-2007 at 10:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by woody in ob

Too sad!!!! my condolences.

when will the average Mexican stand up and say, "ENOUGH!" and quit being the "poor neighbor to the south" that feeds the gringo what they want, save for all the immigrants?


Thanks Woody. The family handled it about as best as could be expected. I think oldhippie answered your question.
Quote:
Originally posted by oldhippie
And let us not forget why all this is happening.

American drug addicts.


When the US decides to either wall off 1/5 of the country and put all the drug addicts in a huge cage; or when they get smart and legalize and tax something that is already there and not going away.. they will then be able to severely degrade the power of the Cartels in Mexico, USA, Columbia, etc..

There is really no easy answer. Most Mexicans I have met in the states would rather be in Mexico; but, they move there to earn a living. I know many younger Mexicans that have good educations; but, they don't have too many good jobs available to them. It's going to take a good deal of time and effort to do away with decades of government corruption and greed.

Here is just one reason why many Mexicans may not stand up...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tlatelolco_Massacre

Sharksbaja - 9-27-2007 at 12:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by toneart
I would be glad to chip in. Good idea. I think the most expedient way to do it is for some Nomad with a business to run it through Pay Pal on their website. This was done quickly just after the Mulege flood. I'm not sure how Dennis was elected or if he can or wants to set it up. Who has a business?


Yea, who could we trust to do this?;D

DENNIS - 9-27-2007 at 06:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by oldhippie
And let us not forget why all this is happening.

American drug addicts.

That's part of the reason. Not all of it.

DENNIS - 9-27-2007 at 07:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by toneart
I'm not sure how Dennis was elected or if he can or wants to set it up.

I'm sure he meant to say. "Doug."

oldhippie - 9-27-2007 at 07:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mango

Here is just one reason why many Mexicans may not stand up...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tlatelolco_Massacre


Thanks for the link, reminded me of Kent State, which I haven't thought about for quite a while.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings

[Edited on 9-27-2007 by oldhippie]

gnukid - 9-27-2007 at 10:07 AM

Please don't blame cartels on american/mexican drug addicts. The system is set to benefit drug dealers by the governments at play to create a world of drug addicts who buy ilegal drugs which in turn makes a profit. If our government chose another system they would have a different result. At least Claderon is making a challenge and I think it is terrific, though the battle will be hard fought and many innocent people seem to be getting hurt. Truly, the drug addicts are a sad lot, choosing drugs to obliterate and obsfucate a sad life is a choice that many make and few shake off easily. The whole thing is so sad, however there are successes to celebrate, some people are staying off drugs and making a great life filled with positivity.

Una vida sin druggas es una buena vida.

Slowmad - 9-27-2007 at 10:54 AM

Brutally complex problem.
Wars on intangibles and inanimates never achieve their goals (e.g. "drugs," "terror"), but torch up an ungodly fiscal burn rate.

Tens of thousands of Americans depend on a steady flow of illegal drugs to justify their jobs at the DEA, Customs, Prison system, Border Patrol, the Coast Guard, the Army, and a dozens of other federal, state, and local agencies.
It's self-perpetuating.
At least two of these agencies will fight decriminalization tooth and claw as it might interrupt the gravy train.
The tax dollars spent per annum on the ludicrous "War on Drugs" could address any number of national ills.

Quilckly check http://www.drugsense.org/wodclock.htm for an idea.

And after the hundreds of billions of dollars squandered and lives lost?
Cocaine is cheaper and more readily available than ever in the U.S.

Thanks, supporters of the War on Drugs.
Thanks for nothing.

gnukid - 9-27-2007 at 11:42 AM

Slowmad,

Aren't you missing the point, there are druglords shooting up public city centers and the streets are filled with drug addicts unable to do anything but steal to fuel drugs.

You can make your blanket statements about how silly it is, but for us, the adventurers that pass through the guantlet we need something, anything to support our safe passage. Today it means we are engaged in a battle, however silly, and a man's life was lost in battle these past few days. For every good man/woman lost in the battle we must stand up and support them, their families and the forces that support the end to cartel controlled violence.

Please consider that philosophical sanctimonious blanket statements about the sillyness of it all do little to help us today though in the big picture such statements may be true. I doubt anyone here supports a war on drugs, we support a defense of our lives. Today, the fact that the militares have begun to arrive is a good thing as opposed to the alternatives=no enforcement.

Mango - 9-27-2007 at 11:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by oldhippie
And let us not forget why all this is happening.

American drug addicts.

That's part of the reason. Not all of it.


I agree, it's not the whole reason. But; it is a rather large part of the whole if you consider the root causes of many problems. Enough of the "what if's" though... I was just trying to make a point to people not to put ALL the blame on the Mexicans.

No easy answers = no easy solutions.

Slowmad - 9-27-2007 at 01:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gnukid
Slowmad,
Aren't you missing the point


God, I sure hope not.
Silly?
More like "absurd."
The border town citizens need serious crime relief.
Us travelers too.
Perhaps a military surge will help.
Though based on past performance (see: "Zetas" and "General Rubollo") the track record ain't red hot.

"We" got the Felix brothers handled.
Now it's three times worse as the Baja transhipment corridor bears witness to an all-out dogfight between the Golfo, Sinaloa and TJ cartels.

And one man's glance at root causes is another's blanket statement.
Your inference that I don't care about the man's death or the safety of travelers is supported by nothing in my post. But I'm with you in agreeing that anyone in Mexican law enforcement bold enough to stand up to these animals deserves our respect.
I scoff at the mock-turtle, Public Relations fiasco called the "War on Drugs."
But ethical street-level cops in the border towns have my undying support.

Did someone say "brutally complex"?

[Edited on 9-27-2007 by Slowmad]

DENNIS - 9-27-2007 at 01:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Slowmad
"General Rubollo"

José de Jesus Gutierrez Rebollo for those who want to do research. He was one of Mexico's drug czars with varied interests.

Slowmad - 9-27-2007 at 01:44 PM

Thanks for the spell help, Mr. D.

oldhippie - 9-27-2007 at 01:48 PM

This is just my opinion but I think this madness will never stop until the "war on drugs" stops. There are some things that just can't be stopped by laws and law enforcement. Prohibition is the classic example, the same with prostitution, the same with gambling, the same with homosexuality. All behaviors that many people find pleasurable and some are very profitable. I may be wrong but the latest brutal violence is a direct result of the elimination of the Arellano-Felix cartel and the battles taking place to assume that business. What's happening in TJ now is just like what happened in Chicago during prohibition. Murders, crooked cops, crooked politicians.

I don't think addicitve drugs should be legalized, pot is not addicitive, so I've heard. But a modified version of the "don't ask, don't tell" way of thinking might work.

The shakedowns of tourists by the cops is a completely different phenomena and should receive forceful attention by the police, even when you consider the percentage of tourists affected is extremely small.

Drug connection? Real cops?

Sharksbaja - 9-27-2007 at 02:31 PM

The tourist issue is not one and the same. Perhaps these organized thugs hijacking vehicles have high drug connections but my guess is that these pseudo-cartel members are just lowlifes with many minions. Opportunists. They see the intimidation they wreak on the agencies and small numbers of "real police" particularily when there are dozens of them with guns.
Quote:

The shakedowns of tourists by the cops


Do you think they are(cops)?
One HUGE question that could answer and help us if the need be is: are these cops, ex-cops or are cops involved. I know it would change my tactics and instincts.

oldhippie - 9-27-2007 at 02:35 PM

The more gentle mordida shakedowns for speeding, etc. are by cops, the more brutal robberies are, I think, by thugs.

DENNIS - 9-27-2007 at 06:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by oldhippie
The more gentle mordida shakedowns for speeding, etc. are by cops, the more brutal robberies are, I think, by thugs.

Different activities-----Different perps.

Bajafun777 - 9-27-2007 at 09:25 PM

Dennis, you were right I meant Doug Means, sorry for the quick fingers typing and brain power not keeping up. Still, maybe Doug, Hose A. and FDT could agree to work together and if again we could get at least 60 people to donate it would be of great help the the surviving widow and son. FDT advise me that two officers where killed by the Cartel and maybe what is collected could be given directly to the widows for them and their children. Every little bit helps and if we want the cops to have some extra thought towards Americans lets show them we actually give a damn about them putting it on the line. I know this can not be done every time with such killings but if not now when??? I am willing to send a donation and if we could get donations of at least $40, we would never turn down less so give what you can, and as much over that which you can afford to donate. I think this being done in the name of BajaNomads would be a good thing for all. I will start a new topic for those agreeing to pledge monies and hopefully Doug, Hose A., and FDT would be willing to get it to the widows and the their kids directly avoiding any government involvement. Hope others feel the same or least 60 of those Nomads reading these forums:saint:. Later===========bajafun777

Well stated Diver!

longlegsinlapaz - 9-28-2007 at 04:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Diver
I would hope that we all understand the primary need for the Mexican police to work towards their own safety and their own local and national security. The in-fighting and law fighting actions of the drug lords and gangs need to be the first priority beyond their own personal safety. All else will follow.
We, as visitors, may be somewhat important to Baja's economy but for one, we are just visitors (not as important as family and friends to most anyone) and 2, how can we expect any actions on our behalf when they are fighting for their lives and the lives of their children ?
Best hopes and wishes to those that are fighting the fight.


I'm glad most of the truly insensitive posts on this thread seem to have disappeared...whether by Moderators or by the original posters. Please remember, not ALL police in Mexico are corrupt. Not ALL police in Mexico accept mordita. All police are human & have families just like you do; so stop & think before you dehumanize them as an entire group! There are Nomads who have family members who risk their lives on a daily basis to protect everyone in their beat...regardless of nationality! There are also Nomads whose relatives have given their lives. So please try to be a little more sensitive & don't paint ALL police as on the take or corrupt, there are good & bad police. Their own daily survival is paramount to their being out there for all the rest of us...regardless of what country we were born in!

Hose A, I also applaud your stepson for the career path he chose to follow & sympathize with you & his mother's sleepless nights over his safety & well-being...as I do the families of policeman everywhere!