Loreto Bay

Also, supposedly in the letter to the owners, Air Alaska's contract with Loreto's Airport is up in 3 months and will not be renewed. OUCH !!!

Jerry,
Just relaying the info. I received from friends in town. Real Estate people. For the rest, I know as much as you do. But, like you know, always lots of substance to those kind of tales.

Loreto in mourning.

Just got a hold of a copy of the letter to the homeowners.
Mainly in typical bullsh#t Loreto Bay speak. Butterfly, the " hands on " sustainable garbage sprouter, is no more. Probably off to his next failure, to add to his accomplishments, with his common condo complex, which "adorns" Victoria harbor the highlight.
The other hotshots are now absorbed in the big one, Citigroup, to spout some more of their nonsense to the gullible..One of my Loreto Friends is supposed to post the complete letter.
So, more to come.
Don't forget, you heard it here first folks.

Loreto Bay latest news

You are right Minnow...any company that that finds it necessary to use a name Knock-off is already committed to deception.
That was not the main reason in this case...only the next step to break all promises and have deniable. look people we are new company and we will screw you in the back door
It would surprise me if any of you believe they would do anything they promised...a desal plant...
They saw a way to screw the community and took it. Say good-bye to you water Loreto...

Ken, One only needed to take a trip to Puerto Escondido to see what is going to happen next. I wonder if LB took prospective clients there before they bought.

I will lay dollars to donuts that in 5 years you will be able to pick up one of those houses for less than half of what the first owner bought it for.

Roberto, I have never seen a typo on any of my citigroup statements. They are always professional, and I know who to call it I have a problem. Besides, they can throw all the money at it they want. Ain't gonna happen. You have been there?

I am speaking from a purely financial perspective. Throw in the old hippies, and that is a completely different can of worms.

[Edited on 27-9-2007 by Minnow]

Lou, Petunia must be OldHippies' evil twin.

With all due respect Roberto, does anything in that glossy brochure from LB, make you feel this project has more of a chance of success now?

The part that says that Citigroup has committed $50 billion over 10 years to address global warming should be enough for any investor of Citigroup to sell stock or short it. (Unless that means they are going to retrofit the LB homes on poles ala South Carolina.)

Frankly all their published sales brochures have turned me off from the begining. IMHO Loreto will never be another Cabo or Cancun.

And yes Minnow some deals will be had for those first houses.

Ken

No dude, stick to your never ending rehashing of the same old crap that takes 2 minutes to load.

This one is much better. It is full of quick whittled comments and misinformation.

What does yours got? Facts?

If I want that I will check out Fox news.

Petunia is a friend of mine and the letter she posted is the one I was referring to in my previous post.

I pointed to the "glossy brochure" as a reference to the fact that they have always said it's Citigroup that it's their partner.

I'm not touching the rest of the letter with a ten foot pole.

1. I don't care.
2. It would be useless with this group.

Is that clear enough?

Minnow, does that put me in the category of posters who have nothing to share and are curmudgeons? (that's the correct spelling, by the way, DK told me so).

High overhead operation You mean the lining their pocked phase is over and they're passing the baton.
As for boding well for the owners, I agree with the thought in mind that Citigroup has a reputation to uphold and can ill afford to walk away. At least we're talking "DEEP" pockets.

don't be! pay $$ take chances!!!

anyone who "invests" more in mexico than they can afford to walk away from needs a brain transplant!

well the place looked tidy as i buzzed it sat and sun from 500 ft.
didn't have the time to van over tho. had other biz just in town.

as for me....who cares?? except for the workers who may lose jobs, i care for the mex people, not gringos like me!!

ok you eco naysayers, you win!

i never gave it more than 50-50, i just felt gringos should mind their own biz on matters relating to the real citizenry.

it may never be the 5000 units butter beans said it would but the completed units and partials that MIGHT get finished will be fine for those who like clustervilles.

my friends said , ok - good , less neighbors. that was a riot.

if his place drops 50% he will shrug and say win some lose some.....
how many of you were invested there baja in the 70s when peso devalued 50% every other month and folks had CDs in mex accounts, like their life savings??
that wasn't butter sauce doin it, twas the guvmint!!
well.........time to check the mex real estate web sites for some fresh bargains!! hahaha

Quote:

Quote: anyone who "invests" more in mexico than they can afford to walk away from needs a brain transplant!

You mean "can't walk away from" I presume

Of all the times I heard and read that statement, I've always thought it to be one of the dumbest I've ever heard. It maybe true for folks who spend their 2 or 3 vacation weeks here, but what about the people that make Baja their home and moved here lock, stock and barrel, like many of us ?
We did choose this country for many different reasons, and I, myself, am very glad to be out of the crazy California rat race. And NO, if I would loose my place here for whatever reason, I wouldn't be destitute, but it would put a dent in my way of living. But that's part of living. If you want to go through life without taking any chances you're a poor soul in my book.
And I would be really surprised if many of the people that live here don't agree with me, and more surprising, that nobody ever mentioned this in this forum.

sorry for your situation amigo - but you're putting one too many bets on the come line. and - just this guy's opinion - many others out there do what you do - how do ya'll sleep at night?? well, that is if you don't have a great fall back plan.

and yes - i stand by my statement - if you can't afford to walk away from a second home in baja should things go to caca - then you are short one home. And if you think that's "dumb" don't bother me with any other investment tips like buying property in places where you can't vote nor enjoy citizens' rights.

placing all your eggs in the baja retirement basket thinking all will be peachy in perpetuity is risky as all get out. But hey........its your dough my friend. use it or lose it.

risks are fine, i calculate them all the time and pick the ones i am comfortable with. i'll tell ya this for sure tho - i have no intention of becoming a "poor soul".

glad you're out of the CA. rat race - can't blame you there.

welcome to the land of the real rats, ones with practice .

no sweat, i respect that. i just could never do what you all do with out a safe sanctuary back up plan. Just my Boy Scout training. you know - be prepared.

Hell - i am good with a palapa/trailer/truck/BBQ and if i lose that i still have AZ digs paid for.

yeah, i got some investments, 2 kinds actually - ones that make $$ and ones that don't. But i don't keep anything too long that loses $$.
do you??!!

Quote:

Hell - i am good with a palapa/trailer/truck/BBQ and if i lose that i still have AZ digs paid for.

But we're not "good with that" and yes, I have paid for digs in Sacramento, a place that over the last 20 years turned into another LA type chithole with unbelievable traffic and crime. Comparing to that, my place here is unbelievable and will, without any doubt, last me and my kids a lifetime.

And BTW who the hell wants to live in Phoenix.

Hey Ed - !! Dumb me. I just figured out why you hated LB so much - you live in no polo? - yes??

Who wants phx?? lots of snow birds from the east and mid west for one example, well in the winter anyway. Built a few shacks for them over the years too.

I'll take sunshine and 75 in January anytime too. And when its hot for 3 lousy months, i stay inside where my home, office and cars are heavily A/C'd. big deal. (and buzz up north for weekends)

Well, i ain't retired yet so a portable and disposable vaca spot with an adjacent airport, bar, pool, hotel for drop ins and a bunch of great friends is damn nice. yeah.....doin real nice Osprey and thx for asking! I'll be doing nicer with an east cape lot one day tho so i am watching them go up.

and i can come south for a weekend iffin i want - can you? Or get right home in about 3 hours on short notice if i need to.

so if baja still has the allure down the road when i decide making $$ fighting ratz is no longer fun or needed, i'll be buying or building something a little more substantial to fit my tastes and style, and it will be VERY comfortable, trust me......for about 1/2 a year at a time, that's all.
I love the SOC but pac side is too cold and gloomy winters and SOC above the tropic line is way worse than PHX for heat and humidity.

like i said above here or sum place else - if it works for you, great!

whatever floats your panga.....or liveaboard - how ever you are set.

Hey Clouseau,
Your power of deduction has no end.

Ed IN Nopolo

HAHA!! Who's seen the new terminal under construction at loreto?

thx Roger - you know your stuff but don't expect the non biz minded reading here to comprehend long range alternative planning and structured work-outs.
Don't worry about me, i get a real kick out of a little dialogue and controversy yaking with the confused few here. Its too funny! How a few get so wrangled.......
this was all about opinion, nothing else - i got real issues i deal with elsewhere that truly matter, not about retiring or living or owning "arena" in a foreign country!

Yes - fill me in when you can on the latest for R. el B.
I just flew over it thurs headed to Loreto and Cabo for DP Racing's 1000 pre run. Rich keeps inviting me down but haven't had the time with the other AZ stuff i got going on.

Hey Wilderone, stop off in phx this summer, its less than 115 in the shade at my place - i have misters.
And i can introduce you a few real pimps if you want to understand how they really operate.

Quote:

Originally posted by capt. mike HAHA!! Who's seen the new terminal under construction at loreto? thx Roger - you know your stuff but don't expect the non biz minded reading here to comprehend long range alternative planning and structured work-outs. Don't worry about me, i get a real kick out of a little dialogue and controversy yaking with the confused few here. Its too funny! How a few get so wrangled....... this was all about opinion, nothing else - i got real issues i deal with elsewhere that truly matter, not about retiring or living or owning "arena" in a foreign country!

rogerj1......Your conception of "nothing" is so ignorant and disgraceful you should go find a deep dark hole to climb into it. It is people like you that are so insensitive to ecological and natural ethnic human development that is ruining alot of the nicer places that exist in Baja.Your shortsighted attitude is sick beyond belief!!!!

Yes Captain Mike and the ther person with a sun avatar whose name I can´r recall. I am no expert on financial subjects but I live in this town and I guess I along with the other town's residents are your pawns to be used as playthings. I would certainly appreciate a clear explaination without condesention for a change. I would not speak or write in the tone that you have if I were to explain say, the physical chemisrty of tertiary protein reactions to synthetic enzyme substrate analogs to those who were learning about it for the first time. The concepts of which we speak are likely equally complex.

Loreto Bay did not make a town and they did not start with nothing. Over and over I was told by their sales force that they acquired a complete infrastructure with which to build out and finish (and make wads of moolah). This was part of their schpeel. They said the hard work was already done. They were a bunch of crooks and that will be proved.

A town has homes and families, retail markets, schools, medical facilities and necessary services. Where are the schools in LB? Where is the retail in Loreto Bay? Only a fool would set up shop there as it would be like setting up shop in the middle of nowhere, actually worse it wouldn't be noticed at all because everything looks the same there, and also there are no consumers. This can be proven by the taking a look at the existing market there El Porton, who can´t keep a simple deli running or stock oon its shelves despite state of the art equipment inside a beautiful building, the business just isn't there. Maybe that is why there is no retail there yet?

All LB has done is build a bunch of condos and if you take a look at what other offerings there are in this area it is a bad deal and a joke, and now more than ever. Mike wouldn't invest there because #1 he hasn't the money and #2 he probably deep down thinks its a lousy investment.

I like others in this conversation did not come to Loreto to speculate on land so as to raise the value out of orbit to those who really deserve to obtain it (the real Loretanos). I came here to LIVE. I have a family and we have a future, a future that we will take into our hands and not allow a bunch of outsiders to shape. and since we live here we have chosen not to live under a palapa in an RV but inside a house instead on our own land. This is not just our recreational area its our life. If something catastrophic would happen up in PHX would Mike be able to easily just leave his home, his property and business behind? Your words are insulting to people like me and to people who don't read this board, the many Loretanos who also LIVE here and aren't here just to recreate.

Don't worry about the Alaska flights being canceled. It was in the plan for a long time that Frontier their subsidiary airlines would take over so this is not new news. Alaska has hurt from the competition from Delta. They have to cut costs and downsize their planes to fit the needs of the marketplace.

Jerry about the desal plant and other ammenities...we won't get a desal plant as it is too costly. LB never promised it if you read their fine print. LB never promised a beach club or a marina, those were NEVER guaranteed. The hospital according to the news we read and the huge sign next to it is being paid for by taxpayer funds and enhanced with donations by private industry. LB HAD to make a hospital work it was part of their sales pitch as many of the aging folks that considered buying in were concerned with the serious lack of medical care obtainbale in Loreto.

If you think Loreto has water issues you may want to join those who are concerned as that was the heart of most of the issues discussed. I don't give a rats ass about how many developments are to come here but if the natural resources and the man made infrastructure cannot support them then I do give a rats ass and you should too. Without water we have NOTHING, our property will be worth NOTHING and the speculators will have thrown their money into a barren desert.

One more thing. Many LB employees are now waiting for their liquidation, separation severance which is required by law. They will ALL have to be laid off and new ones brought in or the productive ones rehired. Many construction workers who were brought in are now looking for housing. I know this because they wander around where I live asking us if we know of places to live. Some are sleeping on the beaches. And they are all looking for work around town. It is obvious some of them are stuck here with no money to return to where they came from. Gracias Loreto Bay

"Most of the risk involved developers offering ownership in a development that they didn't actually own or have clear title on. The advice of talking to a Mexican attorney is very good advice."
words of the dude with the sol avatar


uh...that´s what LB was doing. They were selling land that had not yet been handed over to them by FONATUR wey.

On another note, this thread comes up number 7 and 9 respectively when you enter the words

Loreto Bay + citibank

and Loreto Bay + citigroup

no doubt that people doing their diligent homework before handing over wads of money will stumble on this board and read the TRUTH for a change written by people who LIVE here and are affected by this fiasco. for this the nomad board is of great value. keep up the posts and remember to use key words like Loreto Bay and investment and repossession and citigroup and citibank and serious water issues etc.

oh yeah thanks wilderone here´s another keyword...FRAUD

[Edited on 10-3-2007 by flyfishinPam]

To me, this project had, right from it's infancy, a kind of Barnem & Bailey feel to it. All hype and no substance.
Their original brochures stated in the fine print that the amenities, like spas, beachclub, restaurants, etc , were only proposals and thus not to be taken for fact.
I remember that during the first few months of its inception I met several folks on the beach asking me questions about the project. I remember vividly the lady who build and finished the first custom house. When she told me in the fall of 2004 that she was moving in in April, I asked her what year, and was told that I was not very nice. Well, they moved in 2 years later, were here for a few months and I haven't seen them since. The very first very fancy Home, accross the street from me, was completed, but the owners were so disgusted with LB, that they sold within weeks of completion. And people associated with LB bought it, likely to prevend negative reports about the real goings-on.
I find it hard to find any kind compassion for those folks that plunked down their money for a very poorly thought out project. I think they deserved what they got. If you can afford that kind of money for a second home you have to have half a brain and should be able to use it.
Let's face it, developers wouldn't be able to come up with these kind of scams if it wasn't for the old Barnum adage " a sucker born every minute ".
But it seems that there is another sales event this weekend, so they haven't given up trolling for more.
For us , living here, we have hopes that Citigroup will not desert the project and make this ending up looking like Escondido. Hope their pockets are deep enough to ,at least, finished the part that has been started.
And again, as for the LB owners, You Deserve What You Got !!

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=1432#pid47179

Just went back to this thread started in 2003 about Villages of Loreto Bay
and it is SO interesting to see everyones feelings back then and now see
some of the same peoples comments.

Pam
I especially was interested and respect your views. You gave this project a hesitant "thumbs up" hoping that they would follow thru and make things better for you and
your community. Unfortuantely it wasn't to be...

Quote:

Originally posted by Marie-Rose http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=1432#pid47179 Just went back to this thread started in 2003 about Villages of Loreto Bay and it is SO interesting to see everyones feelings back then and now see some of the same peoples comments. Pam I especially was interested and respect your views. You gave this project a hesitant "thumbs up" hoping that they would follow thru and make things better for you and your community. Unfortuantely it wasn't to be...

cool no hay problema hope to meet you too sometime.

my guess would be because

recharge = (what goes in) - (what goes out)

what's going out (being pumped out) is greater than what's going in (rainwater recharge) so the overall recharge is negative. I hated hydrology in school but I guess I should've paid more attention and not sold that book after passing the class.

the Govt. could.....

For what it's worth,a friend of ours went out to the office at Loreto Bay yesterday. When he inquired as to what was going on, they just laughed,and said nothing has changed, and everything is going ahead as planned. Only the financing has changed hands. He did say it looked like thousands of workers on the job. On the other hand,we live a half a block off Mex 1,between a convenience store and a small market. Usually there are a goup of LB workers hanging out in front of the convenience store,and a pretty steady stream of workers walking back and forth to the market. This week there has been no one in front of the store,and very little foot traffic. It is 1:00 pm. Sat.,and still no traffic to the market.

Sun. afternoon,very little foot traffic,and no one hanging out at the convenience store. Since Sun. is day off,usually quite busy.