BajaNomad - BajaNomads donation posting for Mexico Fed Officers Killed

BajaNomads donation posting for Mexico Fed Officers Killed

Bajafun777 - 9-27-2007 at 09:33 PM

Ok, here is the link to start the pledging of donations in the name of BajaNomads to the two Federal Police killed that left families behind. I will start it off by pledging $100 dollars and hope others will join in. We need at least 60 to make it meaningful to the families we would be giving to. Pledges of whatever you can afford but if you can give at least $40 it would help the numbers ring up quicker. Now, I trust Doug Means and FDT to get the money to the families and I also would trust Hose A. however I have not had the pleasure of meeting him personally, yet.Hopefully, they will be willing to sign-on to make this a go. Hope this goes over for the families of these slain officers. Late------bajafun777

Bajaboy - 9-27-2007 at 09:36 PM

Just a thought, how about a fund for all the officers' families. I know a Nomad whose family lost family members in the same manner. Why not start a fund for all the victims...not just a select few....just a thought.

Zac

Bajafun777 - 9-27-2007 at 09:47 PM

Bajaboy, So are we talking 3 officers in Baja killed by the Cartel?? I have no problem with that but we will still need at least 60 donators. Have a good one and let the pledges begin--- Doug, are you in for representing BajaNomads in linking up with Hose A. and FDT if we get donations to get to the families??? This will probably get more people willing to donate. Later----bajafun777

BajaNomad - 9-28-2007 at 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajafun777
Doug, are you in for representing BajaNomads in linking up with Hose A. and FDT

I need to go over this with them. This would present challenges in direction/decisions, accounting, reporting back, and more.

Let us review privately first.

Thanks,
--
Doug

Bajafun777 - 9-28-2007 at 07:38 AM

Ok, as most Nomads that will give will probably want to make sure the money gets to where it is suppose to and using government officials would make some uneasy in giving. Thanks for replying and we will want for your linking up with FDT and Hose A. on this but the pledges can still be made up until the time you guys say it is on. Later===== bajafun777

fdt - 9-28-2007 at 07:41 AM

Bajafun777, please read your U2U.

cajhawk - 9-28-2007 at 11:37 AM

Would like to donate if you have link.

fdt - 9-28-2007 at 11:46 AM

Hold on, as per Dougs request.

Bajafun777 - 9-29-2007 at 08:24 AM

Well, I have had a few U2Us on this suggested pledges donations for the officer killed and suggestions to maybe include helping the man taken from his home and killed, as the killers mistook him for the Federal Prevention Officer whom they then went back for and killed. These were terrible things that happened to these lives because of a Cartel with killers that seem to have no "Do's and Don'ts" towards law enforcement and the public. Mexico has a problem but the problem is also putting any of us in harms way when traveling Baja. This call for donations for these fallen lives is just a way to maybe let others know we see, hear, and care about what is going on. A number of us have friends and family in Baja and Mainland Mexico and definately do not want harm to fall on them. Again, this was just a thought of maybe we can do "something," as BajaNomads that would help make a little difference. Hope others decide this might be worthwhile also. I set a number of asking for a least 60 people willing to donate in order to make it worthwhile, so if there is not enough interest in doing this then it will just pass us by, somethings good things happen when a small step is taken. Take care------------------- bajafun777

DENNIS - 9-29-2007 at 12:51 PM

B777.........
I'm with you for any amount. We can't help all who need it so I would suggest being selective. It couldn't be considered exclusive. If we can't get it together to help the few financially, perhaps Hose A can show us how to buy much needed equipment. Just a thought.

Al G - 9-29-2007 at 01:15 PM

I agree with Dennis and feel helping a family with this great loss is a worthy and noble cause...I also feel for the lives still on the line...IMHO the money is more needed to help prevent another tragedy...either way I am in for a c note.
If the donation to the family is what is chosen, HoseA is the man...this is to be private. Publicity could spell retaliation for the family.

Thanks HoseA

Sharksbaja - 9-29-2007 at 03:15 PM

Good info for those seeking to help. Nomads can be very generous and helpful. Vida larga!

DENNIS - 9-29-2007 at 03:39 PM

Well.....Lets do it.
B777.. Jump in here...You started this. Organize it. It's your baby.

Thanks, Hose A, for getting into this. I think a fund should be developed for this cause. Keeping the effort alive will require somebody's talents, somebody with a sense of creativity and need. I know you're busy so, I nominate B777. He has my support in every way.
What do you think, B7? This is all good.

Bajafun777 - 9-29-2007 at 05:50 PM

Hose A., Al G., Dennis, fdt, and other Nomads----I know the need for equipment for officers are real in Mexico. I know that our local law enforcement here in Imperial County gives vests, batons, handcuffs, training, etc. to the Mexicali judical and state officers. I know that San Diego law enforcement does the same with T.J. but I do not know if they give to other local towns. I have no problem taking this and running with it, just thought most people would not know me, however, Doug Means would be easier for them to send monies to (like the bumper stickers to get them started). Let me check with some buddies of mine that head up the cordinated law enforcement agency to what is legal to give to Mexico as private citizens. Buying handcuffs, good ones, will run about $23 dollars and some times Galls (a vender that sells police and firemen equipment) has sales. The bullet proof vests are another story but like I said when I started this reply American law enforcement currently give vests, I do not believe it is legal to take them into Mexico. I will need to check but buying a vest could run around $300 each and that is finding a good source which I will do if we can legally do it. We do not want to get into trouble with American Customs or Mexico's Customs. I just know when their is a death of a law enforcement officer, no matter what side of the border it is on, the family has money problems. The immediate extra expenses of the funeral, family issues, etc. I have raised monies for little league, high school wrestling & football, churches, law enforcement fundraisers, and have served on the local Boys & Girls Club Board, High School Board, and been in government service for over 33 years but I am relatively new to the Baja Nomad group. I will check into the issues concerning equipment donations and get back to people on this board. We could do both give to families and also get some equipment like handcuffs, good handcuff keys, handcuff holders, clip holders for the weapons, and maybe search gloves that are made of leather and cut resistant. These are things I think we could take as gifts without any problems but I will check first. The monies to the families should be done privately with several Nomads present to show support. I agree about the media, absolutely no newspapers or other media attention could put the families at risk again and maybe the Nomads doing the good deed. We are not looking for a pat on the back or a picture in the paper, we are looking to show we care about the victims loss of a loved one. I will also check into opening a special account to show the deposits and then the monies expended if Doug does not feel comfortable doing this collection and disbursement to the selected families and equipment, if it is possible, for the police department in Mexico. We will have to decide which department or departments we are talking about and what we can give from what is collected. We need again about 60 to make it worthwhile, otherwise we just stay with the families that lost their breadwinner, loved one, father, son, or husband whichever or all of these the person that was killed was. Again, it would great to see at least 60 pledges and it appears now we have about 8. We will probably get more once the specifics are posted, so stayed tuned. Later----bajafun777

bajabound2005 - 9-29-2007 at 05:56 PM

We'd be in -- bajabound2005 and bajamigo. A pledge in Barney's honor!

DENNIS - 9-29-2007 at 07:25 PM

OK B7.........

You're more the person for the job than I had hoped for, given your experience. I can only add one thing to your pre-plan as it is. Perhaps we don't have to make such an international issue of our efforts as would be required. Maybe we can find a small need and fill it. Tanks and bazookas are out of the question.
Stay with it B7.....You have my undivided attention and support.

docsmom - 9-29-2007 at 08:31 PM

B7,
I'm on board for a donation and will also offer help with administrative issues. I'd be willing to talk with you personally about administrative structuring.
I think you have a very good point in helping with immediate expenses for the families of slain officers. We need to explore what the death benefits are and if there is a need for donations to the families. If there's a need, we could certainly meet it. If the death benefits are adequate, our donations might be better spent elsewhere.
I think Dennis has a very good idea about finding small issues and taking care of those. Whether it's immediate aid to the families or providing supplies to the active force, we need to isolate an issue and attack it. There are enough of us here with an interest in the area and I support your desire to make a difference in the region.
I'll continue to watch this thread and am available to you for assistance.
Kathy

Bajafun777 - 9-29-2007 at 10:40 PM

docsmom, will update on this soon. Will talk to one of my sources in Mexicali and check about how soon the benefits kick in and what type of support they get. In fact I have a staff that works with me who's uncle was a long time police officer in Mexicali, a Sgt. rank, and she will also get information for me. It appears that one victim of the officers killings, the man they thought was the officer, has a family that is definately in need since his death. This has been confirmed by a Nomad that knows of the family and he had serveral children and a wife who is now without his support. Again, I welcome your support and each small step gets us just one step closer to our quest to help. Later------- bajafun777

joel - 9-30-2007 at 10:32 AM

I'll contribute. Just need a paypal or other link.

Bajafun777 - 10-1-2007 at 12:32 AM

Joel, we are working on this and other issues raised by the desire to donate to help the survivors of these Cartel killings. Later---- bajafun777

Sharksbaja - 10-1-2007 at 02:15 PM

How do you say "common sense" or lack thereof, in Spanish?

Minnow - 10-1-2007 at 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja
How do you say "common sense" or lack thereof, in Spanish?

sentido comun :lol:

Just so you folks know. Police are covered by the government should they get killed in the line of duty their family gets paid. They get their retirement benifts from the time they got killed.

Bajafun777 - 10-1-2007 at 06:01 PM

Minnow, I have been stopped by police and paid no "donation" or mordida to them but since I was doing nothing wrong I stood my ground also. I was willing to go to the police station if the officer wanted to continue about a fine. Instead, off he went with warning towards me on speeding which I was not doing. Now, as your cheap shot about us not wanting to donate to Antonio's brothers you first assume that everyone knew, right? Real easy here Minnow, if you are not interested in donating don't and keep it to yourself. Why the anger and hostility, if people want to help someone then let them it's not your dime, right? You talk bad about the Mexican cops and in the next entry you identify someone as being a T.J. cop that possibly needed help in the past. This was very very poor thinking here on your part. Why not just tone it down and let people live by their desire to do as they see fit to help in anyway they want to. Hold that hostile tiger tail for other issues but not this one! Like the saying goes "No fight, be happy." Later------- bajafun777

Bajafun777 - 10-1-2007 at 06:11 PM

Checked with my buddies at the law enforcement agencies and they do give vests, belts, holders for cuffs, clips, etc. to Mexicali police and said San
Diego does the same. They said the fire departments also give a lot of equipment to Mexico firemen also. So, it looks like equipment is going down now how it is given out is another issue. There is also, like fdt said, a police officers survivor fund but they did not know the amounts that the family gets. Will see if I can keep asking and get some kind of dollar amount they give out. Either way maybe just giving to the agency that fdt says helps these officers families is the best way to go. Hopefully, everyone then is either happy or not whatever the case. Later---bajafun777

Al G - 10-1-2007 at 07:25 PM

I just do not understand the hostility when we are feeling so compassionate.

DENNIS - 10-1-2007 at 07:28 PM

Shame on you Tom, for trying to belittle and cheapen this effort. Why don't you bring your extensive Baja experiense to assist? What the ***** wrong with you? All this man wants to do is help somebody. So do I. Reach out with your fine knowledge of the area instead of your vitriolic crap.

[Edited on 10-2-2007 by Hose A]

Minnow - 10-1-2007 at 07:51 PM

There Dennis I fixed it. Happy now.

Seriously I meant no harm, however, my comments were out of place. Sorry.

[Edited on 2-10-2007 by Minnow]

Al G - 10-1-2007 at 07:57 PM

I would like you to know BF777, that I appreciate your effort and caring attitude. together and with a few other Nomads we could make a difference in how law enforcement view, and care about us.
This is doable...giving $2 to each victim is not effective unless you give it to a established help group, and I will do that on a smaller scale...
I think with what funds we can generate, a focused effort to save a life is a more noble thing to do...possiably save more then one widow from being left alone.

DENNIS - 10-1-2007 at 07:59 PM

Thanks Tom. Very cool.

Sharksbaja - 10-1-2007 at 08:15 PM

Look again at what you folks are attempting to do. Yes, a noble and compassionately human gesture for sure but perhaps you should explore what may ultimately happen to the money. Sure, it might help out a person or two but quite frankly the truth is, there are so many that qualify for some help or relief. I can see why Tom has little faith in dealing in this matter. Besides possibly compromising the widow and/or family I can think of a few other factors that could dampen the giving spirit. Without getting into the negative aspects of giving cash to affected families it might just be more prudent to donate in a way that wouldn't attract or otherwise compromise those on the receiving end.
I believe that if this were an appropriate way of disbursing cash, others would have been eagar to donate the time to pull it off. There are just too many variables. Now, IMO, if you could get a wish list or information as to what these most unfortunate folks need then perhaps one could avoid potential problems for all parties. There is a certain amount of fear involved here.

If you guys come up with a more calculated plan it's quite possible more will give. Not trying to ba a spoiler just feel the approach is off.

Bajafun777 - 10-1-2007 at 08:59 PM

So, donate to the group that fdt noticed us about. It appears they spread the monies out from what I had read to me in his attachment (all Spanish, I can read some not all so translation had to happen). Sharksbaja, I understand where you are coming from but sometimes you just have to have some faith. fdt, it would probably help if we knew this organization had some banking account in Mexico, as I myself could just trip over to Mexicali and donate into their account or wait until I go into T.J. area again. There exact address or mailing would also help. Sharksbaja, I know that their could be some minor risks in collecting monies to help cops families that were killed by the Cartel, however I do not let fear run my life here nor will I over in Mexico. That does not mean I am not cautious when in Mexico but I do not walk around scare of my own shadow, as I know you probably do not. If that was the case you nor I would enter Mexico. Give as you can and that is all anyone can wish for. Later-------- bajafun777

DENNIS - 10-1-2007 at 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja

If you guys come up with a more calculated plan it's quite possible more will give. Not trying to ba a spoiler just feel the approach is off.

I couldn't agree more. Maybe I owe Tom an apology after digesting all this stuff.
Sorry Tom.
I have strong feelings about welfare. I feel that it should be applied when and where needed. It shouldn't be put on a table to be taken at will and it shouldn't be given to an agency that will eat up eighty percent of it in administrative costs.
OK...This isn't welfare. Don't yell at me.
Our efforts have to be organized and controlled. It could be a Nomad Fund for Law Enforcement. But, it has to be ours. It has to be something we can relate to on an ongoing basis if we expect ongoing participation. It would be a good project for all of us as long as it's ours.
Does any of this make any sense to anybody else?

Al G - 10-1-2007 at 09:29 PM

something I just explained to a person by u2u...
...I am in this to make a difference in our relationship with the people of Mexico as well as helping in the struggles of modern Baja. I am not an expert, but can see them trying to help themselves, so I want to help too.
I also feel if the new cops of Baja know we want to help, and will help...the corruption aimed at Gringos will end someday. I have changed and no longer consider $10-20 mordida as something to worry about...the threat here is California latino gangs...they will do the dirty work for cops cut off from mordida.
There will always be bad guys and a need to get effective help... well that will be a two way street someday. They need to know where we stand. The wiliness to show it, is what will make the difference...
How would you feel if someone you didn't expect wanted to help save your life...it will spread and we will earn respect for each other.
I don't want to pass judgment, but I think there is enough Nomads here that consider $100, a Saturday night party bill...one Saturday for the safety gear needed to keep young men alive to help us tomorrow is not a bad trade off...
Remember...the amount is not the real issue...partisipation is :biggrin:

Minnow - 10-2-2007 at 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Not trying to ba a spoiler just feel the approach is off.

No Dennis you don't my approach was off. Good on you guys for having a heart. :saint:

doradodan - 10-2-2007 at 10:37 AM

what comes around goes around.

sylens - 10-2-2007 at 10:49 AM

i am very impressed and appreciative of all the thinking being applied to helping. lots of good ideas. i have nothing to add in that realm, but i look forward to the development of a plan for donating . whether the consensus is focusing on the bereaved or on the living heroes who ae risking their lives, either way, i think it's a great idea and steve and i are eager to donate $$.

please keep thinking about this and let us know when you've "got it!" :yes:

bajafun777 and fdt, thanks muchísimo for your efforts and energy.

sorry if i'm missing others who are actively grappling with creating a useful way to give.

Sharksbaja - 10-2-2007 at 11:40 AM

777fun, it is not me that is afraid. It's the whole subject matter that is scary. It deals with death and mourning families. A very personal ordeal. Gifts of sympathy may be welcome tho nobody here is really sure how to approach these people in earnest. Frankly, I don't know if money tossed at them is the answer. What they need is something very hard to deliver. Love, caring, understanding, compassion and companionship. These are emotions which can't be translated into money or material objects.
These are just thoughts mind you, people react differently. These types of senseless crimes cannot be resolved in any way. It's why I find this thread hard to deduce.
Al, I understand the prospect of gaining allies within the force and certainly the necessity of good gear is paramount.. That would be a nice bonus. It's hard to feel like a good guy when the police continuously pull over and extract money from lawbiding tourists. Cops aren't supposed to do that to the good guys.

Minnow - 10-2-2007 at 12:30 PM

From now on I will defer to Sharksbaja on how the approach this subject. Thanks Sharks! Great post.

You humble and flatter me little fish...

Sharksbaja - 10-2-2007 at 01:19 PM

Really. My feeling is that if we want to really affect a successful and meaningful donation(s) it would seem imparative to have someone at ground level. It isn't point and click. It takes time and energy and commitment to properly actuate and accomplish what so many want here. You would have to be more personally involved than just handing someone a wad of cash at the door.
I can't do anything but feel sorry for the many lives and families that have been caught up in the sickening crimes and crime sprees that seem to be so common lately.
This whole mess is so complicated and confusing. Of course many of us have a sense of duty, we are the "haves". We feel a responsibility to help relieve pain and suffering if within our ability to do so. It speaks volumes for the good people here.
With that said we must look past the notion of how easy it is to just contribute some money. I missed the cop shirt thing cause I was out of town but these are the types of tangible and logical gifts I think have the greatest chance of protecting people from further harm. Yes it's tiny in comparison to the giant problems going on but the worth is obvious.
The notion of helping out widows and others left without a spouse, husband or father is a good example of our willingness to soften the tragedy by way of money. Can this method provide solace and comfort? Unfortunately I find this question is unanswerable.

[Edited on 10-3-2007 by Sharksbaja]

docsmom - 10-2-2007 at 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by docsmom
B7,
I'm on board for a donation and will also offer help with administrative issues. I'd be willing to talk with you personally about administrative structuring.
I think you have a very good point in helping with immediate expenses for the families of slain officers. We need to explore what the death benefits are and if there is a need for donations to the families. If there's a need, we could certainly meet it. If the death benefits are adequate, our donations might be better spent elsewhere.
I think Dennis has a very good idea about finding small issues and taking care of those. Whether it's immediate aid to the families or providing supplies to the active force, we need to isolate an issue and attack it. There are enough of us here with an interest in the area and I support your desire to make a difference in the region.
I'll continue to watch this thread and am available to you for assistance.
Kathy

Here's my original post. And I continue to be in support of some type of assistance to those in the land we find dear.

My advice

Sharksbaja - 10-3-2007 at 02:39 AM

Just DO it mom! More are sure to help. Like I said, I'm no spoiler. You get something solid and workable going and I'll commit something.
Today someone asked me "how many desparate and destitute people are in TJ" after I explained this thread to them and I shook my head. I guess they had no idea the poverty and mortality rate there. They then said, "well why would you want to donate to a person who will receive police pension rather than a very poor hungry person whos life you could help?" I shook my head again because I couldn't answer them.
IMHO the outfitting of police is a great thing. These guys are available targets to the slime running amuk. Any way to increase their safety has my vote. Hopefully in turn this will lead to a safer place for all of us. When I discussed this option the listener they replied " oh, so you want to help protect cops, do they protect you?" This time they got me, I couldn't shake my head either way. I sure hope so. I'd rather give a cop a good pair of handcuffs than a $40 mordida. I'd feel a whole lot betta... :rolleyes: