BajaNomad - You knew I had to bring it up............

You knew I had to bring it up............

Hook - 10-17-2007 at 11:28 AM

Toyota loses reliability lead in Consumer Reports recommendations.

Apparently, there have been some significant problems with the recent Tundras with the 8 cyls and 4x4. No mention of specifics in this article.

Toyota loses lead in race for reliability

It slips from first to fifth in a Consumer Reports survey. Asian models still top rankings, but Ford makes strides.
By Martin Zimmerman, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
October 17, 2007
In a blow to the company that is poised to be the largest automaker in the world, Toyota Motor Corp. fell so far in Consumer Reports' annual reliability survey that the magazine will no longer automatically recommend the company's new cars and trucks to readers.

The Toyota brand slid from first place last year to fifth place in the 2007 rankings, which were released Tuesday, and Honda Motor Co. replaced Toyota in the top spot.

What's more, "below-average" ratings were given to two of Toyota's cars: the six-cylinder Camry sedan and the eight-cylinder, four-wheel-drive Tundra pickup truck. The Lexus brand, which is owned by Toyota, dropped from fifth place to sixth, with the all-wheel-drive Lexus GS also receiving a "below average."

"To see one of the premium manufacturers have three vehicles fall below average in reliability is a big concern," said David Champion, head of auto testing for Consumer Reports. "They've always been average or better with all their products up to this point."

Champion added, however, that most "domestic automakers would love to have the record Toyota has now" and called the Japanese company -- which is challenging General Motors Corp. for the title of largest carmaker -- "an extremely reliable manufacturer."

In fact, of the 39 vehicles named most reliable in the survey, 17 were produced by Toyota. Its youth-oriented Scion brand maintained its No. 3 ranking.

The magazine's rankings are compiled from responses to surveys about 1.3 million vehicles owned or leased by Consumer Reports subscribers, covering model years 1998 to 2007.

Although Japanese automakers continued to dominate, Champion noted that Ford Motor Co. made strides in quality, with 41 of 44 Ford, Lincoln and Mercury vehicles scoring average or better for predicted reliability.

"Ford continues to improve," Champion said, citing the Ford Fusion, the Mercury Milan and the Lincoln MKZ.

Toyota's drop in the rankings was especially significant because some critics have complained that the magazine was partial to Asian imports. The rankings carry weight with many car shoppers, although their reach is somewhat limited because car makers aren't allowed to trumpet favorable ratings in their advertising.

Consumer Reports has in its past annual editions given a "recommended" rating to all new cars and trucks from Toyota, Honda and Subaru, based on the manufacturers' track records and survey data. The magazine said it would continue to do so for Honda and Subaru vehicles and that Toyota could regain that privilege if it resumed former quality levels.

Toyota's drive for global growth has recently begun to show signs of strain, including the defection of several top U.S.-based executives to rival automakers and criticism from environmentalists over the company's stance on proposed federal fuel economy standards.

On the quality front, the automaker has suffered high-profile setbacks, including recalls of its popular Prius hybrid and settlement of a class-action lawsuit over claims of engine sludge buildup in millions of its vehicles.

But analysts didn't think that Toyota, which built a powerhouse brand on a reputation for quality, would let the problems fester.

"They're starting to see some of the volume-related problems that some of their competitors have seen," said John Wolkonowicz, an automotive analyst with Global Insight Inc. "But unlike some of their competitors, Toyota is on it, and this is not going to continue."

The Camry is the bestselling sedan in the U. S., and about 20% of Camrys sold are six-cylinder models. Toyota said customers have complained about the shifting of the Camry's automatic transmission, and that the problem had been remedied with a software adjustment. The company also said the 2007 Camry, on the market for more than a year, had generated the fewest warranty claims in the history of the model, which was introduced more than two decades ago.

"Although a couple of vehicles slipped off the recommended list, it was actually a good performance for us," Toyota spokesman John Hanson said.

At No. 10, GM's Buick nameplate was the highest-rank domestic brand. Mercury was 11th and the Ford badge came in 13th, followed by Lincoln.

"We're very pleased with the results," said Graydon Reitz, Ford's director of quality for the Americas. "Where we are today is a point along the journey to be best in the world in quality."

martin.zimmerman

[Edited on 10-17-2007 by Hook]

Paulina - 10-17-2007 at 11:34 AM

Ouch! :cool:

Ja ja ja

P<*)))><

David K - 10-17-2007 at 11:39 AM

It is important that competition exists to drive manufactorers to produce the best product for the price...

Isn't it amazing that American companies still don't make the grade?

The best (most trouble free) vehicles I have owned were Toyota, Subaru, Mitsubishi and Mazda and the WORST were Plymouth & Jeep...

David K - 10-17-2007 at 11:45 AM

I will add my parents owned Fords, Jeeps and a Chevy Suburban.

The Fords ('73 wagon, '66 Mustang) were great!

The Jeeps ('65 Wagoneer and '70 Wagoneer) had a good one '65 and a junk one '70... got rid of it and got the Chevy Suburban... My dad loved the room, but the engine was defective... Ford wins, but that was over 30 years ago+

Hook - 10-17-2007 at 11:58 AM

I think the worst of Ford and Chevy's reliability are behind them, especially in the 70s and 80s. But they have a ways to go to match the Asian imports.

In terms of the trucks, as I have contended for some time, it isnt completely fair to compare the American trucks vs the imports. American trucks are asked to do much more than the imports. Just carrying around all the weight that an American truck has to have to be able to tow 10k or more, is a strain on driveline components. And I'm not sure we can put the new Tundra or Titan in the "full-sized truck" category yet. Certainly not the Titan, though I believe the new Tundra with the optional 5.7l V-8 is approaching a one-ton payload. Towing, however, is still way behind the American trucks.

One thing about this article's contention that Ford has had the highest increase in reliability. Is that purely because they have come so far...........or it is because they were so poor in the past that a large percentage increase was easier to obtain?

[Edited on 10-17-2007 by Hook]

Stickers - 10-17-2007 at 11:59 AM

I have owned all of the above vehicles. The only valid comparisons can be made when PRICE figures into the analysis. American manufactures have managed to make some vehicles that are fairly reliable and sell them at probably less then it costs to make them.
The precision of foreign vehicles comes at a premium price.
I never had any (real) problems with my Ford but my new 4Runner is like floating on a cloud and floating on clouds is expensive.

Hook - 10-17-2007 at 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Stickers
I have owned all of the above vehicles. The only valid comparisons can be made when PRICE figures into the analysis. American manufactures have managed to make some vehicles that are fairly reliable and sell them at probably less then it costs to make them.
The precision of foreign vehicles comes at a premium price.
I never had any (real) problems with my Ford but my new 4Runner is like floating on a cloud and floating on clouds is expensive.

Dont forget comfort. Can anything match the cushiness of an American interior? I love Ford and GM seats.

Diver - 10-17-2007 at 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Isn't it amazing that American companies still don't make the grade?

For you maybe !!!
But are you not, way under 6' tall ?? :biggrin:

I love my Fords - all 3 of them.
They make the grade for me just fine.
Toyotas still feel like little tin boxes to me.
So there !!

Stickers - 10-17-2007 at 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook
Dont forget comfort. Can anything match the cushiness of an American interior? I love Ford and GM seats.

Cant argue with you on that Hook. All of my Toyotas have been seat size challenged although I have not yet owned a Tundra. It's all a compromise in the end.

bearbait1 - 10-17-2007 at 02:15 PM

Maybe Toyota's quality is dropping because more and more Toyotas are being built in the U.S.-- OOps, did I say that out loud, I'm sorry.

Bruce R Leech - 10-17-2007 at 03:01 PM

Consumer Reports is finally being a little more truthful is all. it is no secret that they have been in bed with the Japanese car manufactures for many years. but the pressure is turning the tide.

Ford and Dodge rule in the pickup truck world and they are coming back with there cars also. and GM has some neat surprises coming up :bounce:

[Edited on 10-17-2007 by Bruce R Leech]

tripledigitken - 10-17-2007 at 03:39 PM

Where can I find the "smiley" eating the popcorn?

:lol:

toneart - 10-17-2007 at 03:54 PM

I was in high school in the '50s and Ford & Chevy ruled. I had many different Fords and Chevys. In the 'between' years I always had foreign cars VWs, MGs and Toyotas because they were more reliable. I loved them all.

In the last 20 years I have also owned older1960s & '70s Ford pickups. Real workhorses and easy to work on.

My current vehicle, a 2001 Ford F150 4WD, has been one of the best I have ever had. It hauls, is very comfortable and has virtually no problems. I service it every 4000 miles and replace brakes, tires, etc when needed. No complaints! My dog has the whole super crew cab as his Penthouse Suite. He has no complaints either! :bounce:

David K - 10-17-2007 at 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Diver

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Isn't it amazing that American companies still don't make the grade?

For you maybe !!!
But are you not, way under 6' tall ?? :biggrin:

I love my Fords - all 3 of them.
They make the grade for me just fine.
Toyotas still feel like little tin boxes to me.
So there !!

I am not 'way under' at 5'9"... :lol:

I didn't just test drive a Tacoma for no reason... countless Baja Amigos spoke highly about their Toyota Tacomas to me and others, including Neal Johns, 4baja, bajaboy, jeans, Alejandra, Baja Taco, ... etc, etc, etc BEFORE. I also went to a Ford dealer to drive a Ranger before going to a Toyota dealer.

I don't think you have sat in a '05 + (larger size) Tacoma or you wouldn't say it is a tin can... Heck, my '01 was really nice with plenty of head and leg room... the '05 is way bigger, yet can navigate to Mision Santa Maria without a problem!

Al G - 10-17-2007 at 04:13 PM

Toneart...very few american owners have complaints...only toyota owners...about americans...cars and trucks

Hook - 10-17-2007 at 04:14 PM

OK, so it's a larger tin can than they made in the past.

I'm 5-11, 200#. Even the 07 Tundra was uncomfortable to me after my nice, plush Ford captains chairs.

You were right to avoid the Ranger, if Consumer's Report is to be believed. And I believe they can be.

David K - 10-17-2007 at 04:18 PM

Toyota owners who used to own American cars and got tired of paying Mr. Goodwrench for stupid, low quality part failures...

Even though my Jeep was about the worst made new vehicle ever (when it wasn't broken, it was great and would go anywhere) , I still love Jeeps and hope that they finally catch up with the Japanese in quality...

David K - 10-17-2007 at 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook
OK, so it's a larger tin can than they made in the past.

I'm 5-11, 200#. Even the 07 Tundra was uncomfortable to me after my nice, plush Ford captains chairs.

You were right to avoid the Ranger, if Consumer's Report is to be believed. And I believe they can be.

Is the '07 the larger one or the '08... ? I am talking about Tacomas, anyway... I have no opinion on the Tundra. The 'hard to believe' commercials are pretty good, however! :lol:

Al G - 10-17-2007 at 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Toyota owners who used to own American cars and got tired of paying Mr. Goodwrench for stupid, low quality part failures...

Even though my Jeep was about the worst made new vehicle ever (when it wasn't broken, it was great and would go anywhere) , I still love Jeeps and hope that they finally catch up with the Japanese in quality...

I have owned several "Made in Japan" junks and I have owned many Fords, chevy, jeeps...of course my "made in Japan" were from the seventies and were in the shop 2-3 time in their under 100,000 mile life and my american made trucks and cars all went to 200,000 to 300,000 mile and never had their valve covers removed...my ford van did have a timing chain replaced at about 270,000 miles without removing valve covers...my Jeep now is at 220,000 and is in mint condition. (just replaced all rubber to run Baja) I wonder why you had such bad luck...or is luck the right word :biggrin:

I am just poking fun at "made in Japan"....they now have to face American Mass production woos, they will get worse before they get better for sure... :lol:

David K - 10-17-2007 at 04:46 PM

I understand Al... it's almost borderline politics when we start talking cars/ trucks here... Hook is to blame, right?

My new Jeep was a 1975.5 Cherokee Chief (really a '76 model, but sold too early in 1975 to legally call it a '76) with a 401 V-8, automatic (a GM unit), Quadra Trac full time 4WD with low range, Levi interior, nice, nice, nice...

Here's a photo of it on the road between Diablo Dry Lake and San Felipe in Nov. '75 (watching the first SCORE Baja 1000)...

mailedD7.jpg - 28kB

Diver - 10-17-2007 at 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Quote:

Originally posted by Diver

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Isn't it amazing that American companies still don't make the grade?

For you maybe !!!
But are you not, way under 6' tall ?? :biggrin:

I love my Fords - all 3 of them.
They make the grade for me just fine.
Toyotas still feel like little tin boxes to me.
So there !!

I am not 'way under' at 5'9"... :lol:

Although I will admit that Tacomas have a pretty good rep in Baja and many seem to like them, I won't convert unless you can confirm that there is enough room to make whoopie in the Tacoma's front seat without hospitalization. :lol:

lol

Hook - 10-17-2007 at 04:53 PM

So, that's why they call you Diver. :biggrin:

Bob H - 10-17-2007 at 04:55 PM

I have four Fords... Love them all!
1969 Mustang fastback - Red (72,000 original miles)
2001 F250 Superduty
2002 Ranger
2005 Mustang GT 5-speed - Red

Ford trucks continue to be the number one selling truck for over 20 years in a row! And, they just get better and better.
Bob H

Diver - 10-17-2007 at 04:55 PM

And I doubt my wife could fit all the Baja stuff we must carry, 2 kids, 2 dogs, tow our 24' camper and haul the boat on the roof of a Tacoma.
Different strokes !!

And David, there are times when I wish my kids were older like yours so we could do the trip, just us 2, again like old times ...... lucky dog !!

.

Al G - 10-17-2007 at 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
I understand Al... it's almost borderline politics when we start talking cars/ trucks here... Hook is to blame, right?

My new Jeep was a 1975.5 Cherokee Chief (really a '76 model, but sold too early in 1975 to legally call it a '76) with a 401 V-8, automatic (a GM unit), Quadra Trac full time 4WD with low range, Levi interior, nice, nice, nice...

Here's a photo of it on the road between Diablo Dry Lake and San Felipe in Nov. '75 (watching the first SCORE Baja 1000)...

Could be wrong...401 motors in that years were not GM...I think they were AMC...I know that Cherokee and it did well in back country, but as I remember the engine was weak and trublesome...the starter was Dodge??? and cost as much as "Made in Japan"....which why I dumped my "made in Japan"...they almost broke me in the cost of parts...one new Datsun I paided $2999.00 for and they wanted $245.00 for a starter.... :lol:

Al G - 10-17-2007 at 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook
So, that's why they call you Diver. :biggrin:

David K - 10-17-2007 at 05:05 PM

Yes, Diver... the right vehicle for the right price and need... etc.

Since the Tacoma is a MID size (not full size) truck, it isn't made to carry everything you own... Comparable to the Ranger...

In fact, with the four door that I have (seats 5 adults easily... but front seats are bucket, so sorry Diver)... it really is an SUV with a 5 ft. bed for gear...

David K - 10-17-2007 at 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Al G

Quote:

Al, I said the tranny was a GM (Turbo 400), not the motor which was indeed an AMC small block (yes a 401 small block).

The tranny was the first thing to fail when it went out of warantee (12,000 miles)! Then the water pump, door handle, rear window motor, low range lever... 10 mpg wasn't fun either when gas went above 50 cents a gallon!

Al G - 10-17-2007 at 05:16 PM

Sorry DK...my eyes skipped the word automatic... :lol:

Ahem

Sharksbaja - 10-17-2007 at 05:28 PM

simply put:

DODGE RULES!

cbuzzetti - 10-17-2007 at 05:28 PM

Well I have never owned a Made in Asia Truck but have owned a few of their cars. No comparison in my opinion. The Asian stuff is way better.
I do have an 06 Chevy Crew Cab 4x4 Diesel and it has the second worst seats I have ever owned. Dodge Durango had the worst by far. I should have bought the Ford Diesel. I have always liked the Ford seats. But it was the loudest Diesel by a long shot in 06.
I don't think it would be fair to compare a 3/4 ton American truck to a 1/2 ton Asian as far as towing capacity. Just is not going to stack up.
But it is fun to see the debate anyway :biggrin:

Sharksbaja - 10-17-2007 at 05:31 PM

Next time Buzz put out a bit more and get the heated leather/fabric seats with a millon positions.....ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh the feeling!

Hook - 10-17-2007 at 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Next time Buzz put out a bit more and get the heated leather/fabric seats with a millon positions.....ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh the feeling!

Sorry, Sharks but this indicates that you are a Baja wussy. :lol:

Hook - 10-17-2007 at 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cbuzzetti
Well I have never owned a Made in Asia Truck but have owned a few of their cars. No comparison in my opinion. The Asian stuff is way better.
I do have an 06 Chevy Crew Cab 4x4 Diesel and it has the second worst seats I have ever owned. Dodge Durango had the worst by far. I should have bought the Ford Diesel. I have always liked the Ford seats. But it was the loudest Diesel by a long shot in 06.
I don't think it would be fair to compare a 3/4 ton American truck to a 1/2 ton Asian as far as towing capacity. Just is not going to stack up.
But it is fun to see the debate anyway :biggrin:

Where does a 2000 lb payload fit in the whole 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, 1 ton category? I honestly dont know, but that's what the 08 Tundra with the big V-8 is rated at.

msteve1014 - 10-17-2007 at 05:52 PM

maybe people are starting to have more problems with toyotas because they are starting to think of them as real trucks, and hauling real loads with them now, not just pup tents and surfboards. :lol:

THAT HURTS my ego butt not my butt

Sharksbaja - 10-17-2007 at 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Next time Buzz put out a bit more and get the heated leather/fabric seats with a millon positions.....ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh the feeling!

Sorry, Sharks but this indicates that you are a Baja wussy. :lol:

I guess I am then. Gawd I have 700,000 miles on that damn hard bench seat in my ol PW. My butt says "gracias". Me too!
:lol:

Hey they don't call em "buckboards" fer nuttin'! I see all kinds of old trucks hauling cords of wood stacked a mile high around here. All US trucks btw.

TMW - 10-17-2007 at 06:51 PM

Don't get your hopes up too much. The tundra is a new truck designed new from the ground up and all new designs have their problems. Yes even the older Camrys had more problems with each new design. The U.S. companies should be making better vehicles because if they don't the Japanese will put them out of business. Some of you brag you have a truck go 300,000 miles, big deal. I know a friend who drove her Olds 350,000 and traded for a GMC truck and drove it 300,000 miles, both with little maintenance. I also have a friend who drove his Toyota pickup 450,000 miles. Personally I think a Dodge is the biggest piece of crap I ever owned or drove. Anyway your missing the point however in that Consumer Reports has shown Toyota until now has been the most reliable.

As far as the full size trucks go, your just now seeing the 1/2 ton Japan trucks. In 5 or10 years they'll build 3/4 and 1 ton trucks if the market is there. Then you better start taking your pills.

Roberto - 10-17-2007 at 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook
Where does a 2000 lb payload fit in the whole 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, 1 ton category? I honestly dont know, but that's what the 08 Tundra with the big V-8 is rated at.

The Tundra is the equivalent of a 1/2 ton truck. It is fullsize, just like an F150 is. It's towing capacity, however, is quite a bit better than other 1/2 ton trucks.

Al G - 10-17-2007 at 07:59 PM

TW...You are missing the point.
Anyway your missing the point however in that Consumer Reports has shown Toyota until now has been the most reliable
Consumer Report in this category is what, that is not reliable...they have never put an emphasis on owner responsibility of maintenance in the long term reliability of Toyota, Ford etc. The fact is most people think all there is to maintain a car is when it knocks....put a quart of oil in :light:

people who switched to Made in Japan...put up big bucks and pay more attention to their hefty investment...if it broke they would have to put really big bucks for parts to fix it. Made in Japan has always been a bad investment in overall cost...that will never change.

Ken Cooke - 10-17-2007 at 08:09 PM

81,000 mi. and my '03 Rubicon drives great. No complaints. I had 1 leaking gas cap, but replaced that at AutoZone, and no problems since....

Diver - 10-17-2007 at 08:13 PM

OK Ken, but if you ever did need a tow, would you rather it was a Toyota, Dodge or FORD ?? :lol:

DENNIS - 10-17-2007 at 08:13 PM

Ken....

Are you trying to tell us that you can actually keep a car in one piece for 4 years? Hard to believe.

Ken Cooke - 10-17-2007 at 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Diver
OK Ken, but if you ever did need a tow, would you rather it was a Toyota, Dodge or FORD ?? :lol:

Give me a SuperDuty! But, for Jeepin', give me a Dodge PowerWagon!!

hahaha

Sharksbaja - 10-17-2007 at 08:22 PM

It wasn't the Dodge that screwed up our trips, it was those stinking TOYOTA Landcruisers. Worst vehicle in Baja BAR NONE. Funny thang is:

""

and remember what TW says, he's an expert......on Toyotas.

Now there's a man

Sharksbaja - 10-17-2007 at 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Cooke

Quote:

Originally posted by Diver
OK Ken, but if you ever did need a tow, would you rather it was a Toyota, Dodge or FORD ?? :lol:

Give me a SuperDuty! But, for Jeepin', give me a Dodge PowerWagon!!

who knows Jeepin'

Al G - 10-17-2007 at 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roberto

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook
Where does a 2000 lb payload fit in the whole 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, 1 ton category? I honestly dont know, but that's what the 08 Tundra with the big V-8 is rated at.

The Tundra is the equivalent of a 1/2 ton truck. It is fullsize, just like an F150 is. It's towing capacity, however, is quite a bit better than other 1/2 ton trucks.

You made this statement so please tell me which trucks that it is "quite a bit better then", or are you relying on their TV ads... frankly I don't know why the truth in advertising cops (if there is any)have not ask which trucks their brakes are bigger then...Nissian maybe...Tacoma :?:

stripped down models chevy :?:

I just love :barf:

their ad of a tundra pulling a shipping container up a canyon wall...breakaway shots...different cable pulling systems...some shots have no cable at all...not mention, without help it would be impossible to do the transition part. Some real con artist work there...not that others have not done as bad, on a lesser scale.

Hook - 10-17-2007 at 08:33 PM

This is becoming more fodder for the Boys Will Be Boys Board.

We love to talk trucks..............unashamedly!

Now, if someone could just get Miss International in the back of an 8 foot bed (sorry Tonka owners), we'd have a real BWBB post.

Tugofwar for pinks???

Sharksbaja - 10-17-2007 at 08:35 PM

My Dodge vs ANY Toyota on this bored. Any day, Lockers or not. Are u up to the challenge??
I think Al may be right. Maybe those purported to be reliable tough Toyota rigs are actually old Jeeps in disguise. :lol:

Diver - 10-17-2007 at 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Tug a war for Pinks.
My Dodge vs ANY Toyota on this bored. Any day, Lockers or not. Are u up to the challenge??

Can I please take that challenge with my F350 SD diesel ??
Pretty please !?! :lol:

Sharksbaja - 10-17-2007 at 09:31 PM

Yep, pretty soon!!!

Roberto - 10-17-2007 at 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Al G
You made this statement so please tell me which trucks that it is "quite a bit better then", or are you relying on their TV ads...

I was specifically referring to towing capacity. And, in the realm of 1/2 ton trucks, it's better than all of them, when it comes to ratings.

I'm relying on the specs of the truck, check them out.

Al G - 10-18-2007 at 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roberto

Quote:

Originally posted by Al G
You made this statement so please tell me which trucks that it is "quite a bit better then", or are you relying on their TV ads...

I was specifically referring to towing capacity. And, in the realm of 1/2 ton trucks, it's better than all of them, when it comes to ratings.

I'm relying on the specs of the truck, check them out.

Roberto...I am not trying to hassle you, but I knew all along...toytoa claim was bogus...I wasted my time and did the research.
I have not called a dealer to confrim, but as for as I can determine, there is no 2008 tow package available for the tundra yet...
This is what I found:
Whether you're towing for work or recreation, you'll want F-150 pulling for you. No other pickup in its class tows more. With max towing of 11,000 pounds it can get you and your gear there confidently.

2008 Ford F 150
4X4 drive w/410 rear gear
5.4 L Gas engine w/air
$19860 w/ Max tow package of 11,000#

Toyota:
Towing capability
The tow package, standard
on all i-Force V8 models,
increases towing capacity significantly,
:lol:

up to 10,800#
pounds, depending on the
model and drive train
(this is strip base model price) truck above not released
Cost: $27495 does not include price of tow package, engine, transmission, or rear gears to tow 10800#
Est: add $4000-5000 to get to their brag capacity
Sorry about that Toyota lovers...bet your wallet stays empty :lol:

TMW - 10-18-2007 at 07:48 AM

["My Dodge vs ANY Toyota on this bored. Any day, Lockers or not. Are u up to the challenge??"]

Let's see I don't remember any Dodge trucks on the pole line road. Tell me when did you last go over the summit, I think never. However I'm ready to take you on over the summit and the pole line road. Name the date and time. Challenge accepted.

bajalou - 10-18-2007 at 09:42 AM

I wanta watch!!!!

David K - 10-18-2007 at 09:46 AM

Neal and Marian Johns, on the Pole Line Road (Toyota) :yes:

David K - 10-18-2007 at 09:47 AM

Pole Line Road

{Q-E}Pole Line Road 2004 023.jpg - 48kB

David K - 10-18-2007 at 09:54 AM

Fishuntr on the Widowmaker (Mision Santa Maria) in his old Toyota...

Al G - 10-18-2007 at 10:40 AM

Thanks DK...I was just going to ask where the pole cat road was :biggrin:

Al G - 10-18-2007 at 10:41 AM

OPPS...that should have been Pole LINE road :lol:

What a cool idea!

Sharksbaja - 10-18-2007 at 10:51 AM

Sign me up. I should be ready by then. :cool:

I guess this is really evolving. We've got this mudbog course here. Toyotas VERY welcome!! My dog is better too! :lol:

Al G - 10-18-2007 at 10:57 AM

When will this be...I want to watch too...even if I have to come early...I can use my Quad to pull you guys out of trouble :lol:

Roberto - 10-18-2007 at 11:29 AM

Al, a friend of mine recently bought the Tundra. I thought he told me he has the tow package - could be wrong.

By the way, I drive an F350 7.3L diesel I've worked HARD, with virtually no problems. Toyota makes very nice vehicles, but they can't do what real trucks do, in terms of hauling, towing, etc.

If I ever buy another truck, it'll be another superduty.

Sharksbaja - 10-18-2007 at 12:32 PM

Yeah Whistler but yankin' at each other is sooooooo much more fun! :bounce:

I say we start our own event! Hell, we have enough HP.

Al G - 10-18-2007 at 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roberto
Al, a friend of mine recently bought the Tundra. I thought he told me he has the tow package - could be wrong.

By the way, I drive an F350 7.3L diesel I've worked HARD, with virtually no problems. Toyota makes very nice vehicles, but they can't do what real trucks do, in terms of hauling, towing, etc.

If I ever buy another truck, it'll be another superduty.

Super Duty all the way.... :cool:

You have a hell of a truck now....It is OK Sharks you can flame me later...A dodge hurt me one time and have not ridden in one since :lol:

They had to take me out by stretcher after 200 miles :lol:

The owner said he thought he was just getting old....it was kicking his ass to....

of course that was in the 1980s
For the record...I drive GM cars, Ford Trucks, and Jeeps for jeepin' and Polaris for fishing...I will 'til the day I die........ :biggrin:

BTW your buddy may have a tow package or his is a 2007...I used 2008 so there would be no discounting , as the price is important to me. If your buddy has a 2008 maxed out tundra...according to the tundra boards...he has more money then Bill Gates :lol:

I am ready for this PULL-off.....

jimgrms - 10-22-2007 at 08:55 AM

Haven't been on in awhile rite now in corpus christy coming back from florida i am goint to bring the famous soccermoms of colorado down to baja to watch the 1 k race , when it leaves ensanada does it head straight south . my plan is to watch the start and then go somewhere to watch it pass at a pit somewhere any recomendations Jim

David K - 10-22-2007 at 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Al G
Thanks DK...I was just going to ask where the pole cat road was :biggrin:

Al, to be clear... the Pole Line Road is north of Hwy. 3/ south of Laguna Salada... constructed in WWII for a phone line between the U.S. radar station near San Felipe and the west coast...

The Widowmaker is the very steep grade a mile from Mision Santa Maria, east of Cataviña... They both share 4WD required conditions, but the Pole Line Rd. was paved with cobblestone... see:

{Q-E}Pole Line Road 2004 020.jpg - 47kB

David K - 10-22-2007 at 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jimgrms
Haven't been on in awhile rite now in corpus christy coming back from florida i am goint to bring the famous soccermoms of colorado down to baja to watch the 1 k race , when it leaves ensanada does it head straight south . my plan is to watch the start and then go somewhere to watch it pass at a pit somewhere any recomendations Jim

Jimgrms, it will head east first, then south through Mike's Sky Rancho, coming near Hwy. 1 by Mision Santo Domingo then back into the sierra. Near Hwy. 1 again near El Arenoso (east of El Rosario)... and finally running ON Hwy. 1 from Guayaquil/ San Agustin area to Laguna Chapala where it heads north to Coco's Corner then back south through Calamajue Canyon and onto the L.A. Bay Hwy. for most of the way... Hwy. 1 again between Vizcaino area and San Ignacio... then near Hwy. 1 south of Concepcion Bay to Loreto...

Map at http://www.score-international.com

Peloncito - 1-4-2008 at 04:10 PM

Any of you see Danny Sullivan, Dan Friedkin's (Vista Motorsports) new Toyota Tundra Baja1000 vehicle? Featured in the January, 2008 edition of "Dirt Sports" magazine. Apparently the first Toyota to run in the trophy division since Ivan Stewart's in 2000. Very nice looking...... I think they placed 12th in the division. Not too bad for their first start.

Of course trophy trucks are anything but stock vehicles to base reliability on.... Haha

cpg - 1-5-2008 at 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja
It wasn't the Dodge that screwed up our trips, it was those stinking TOYOTA Landcruisers. Worst vehicle in Baja BAR NONE. Funny thang is:

""

and remember what TW says, he's an expert......on Toyotas.

What went wrong with the Landcruisers? I have a 73 FJ 40 with over 315k miles that has been over the rubicon more than 20 times Also a 96 80 that has 191k miles both still running great with no major repairs. Just curious what you saw.

TMW - 1-5-2008 at 08:45 AM

Speaking of Ivan's race truck, I remember reading that it used a throttle body injector for each cyclinder rather than seqencial or multiport injection.

I'll pull out the article on the Sullivan Tundra, I probably read it but don't remember it, that comes with age you know.

David K - 1-5-2008 at 09:40 AM

TW, if I can find out I will let you know... Elizabeth's son works at Ivan's son's shop 'Raceworks', has seen the truck at Ivan's home garage, etc.

bajaguy - 1-5-2008 at 09:48 AM

A friends son is an engineer on the Ford design team in Michigan. The son told me that Toyota is the standard that Ford is trying to build to.............

Correction, should be nephew, not son.

[Edited on 1-5-2008 by bajaguy]

David K - 1-5-2008 at 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy
A friends son is an engineer on the Ford design team in Michigan. The son told me that Toyota is the standard that Ford is trying to build to.............

That is RICH!!!! :lol:

Al G - 1-5-2008 at 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy
A friends son is an engineer on the Ford design team in Michigan. The son told me that Toyota is the standard that Ford is trying to build to.............

I doubt this sincerely...ask yourself...would you ever knowingly down grade you product so severely...

David K - 1-5-2008 at 11:01 AM

Sour grapes!

bajaguy - 1-5-2008 at 11:08 AM

hey, Al...His uncle(my friend) is Larry Stout, COL, USMC, Ret., Reno, NV. I can send you his name and phone number in Michigan if you want to call him.....

[Edited on 1-5-2008 by bajaguy]

Al G - 1-5-2008 at 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Sour grapes!

No no no...I ragging on you in fun...alway will

Ken Cooke - 1-5-2008 at 12:29 PM

The Toyotas I saw in Colombia really rocked. There were Land Cruiser 45 pickup trucks with OEM-installed snorkel intake systems rolling on solid axles. I took photos of everything. The Fords I saw there were no match, and this is coming from a Ford guy. Their "Hi-Rider-edition" HiLux 4 door pickup trucks had a nice lift from the factory, 4 doors, great-looking engineering, and looked like they could easily tackle that territory. The Mud-Terrain tires I saw ran there were either the Hankook MTs, Kumho MTs, or Firestone MTs.

Not bad looking rigs...

TMW - 1-6-2008 at 11:05 AM

Toyota not only makes an excellent quality vehicle but has now sold more than GM worldwide in 2007 to become number 1. I think all manufactures should try to match or exceed Toyota in quality. That only makes every vehicle better for the consumer. I also hope that by selling more that Toyota doesn't slide backwards on quality. Every manufacture has good and bad things about their vehicles and every consumer has a taste that has them buying from all of them. Each of us have a preference for a chevy, dodge, ford, jeep, Nissan, toyota etc.

Bajabus - 1-6-2008 at 12:16 PM

I love my Fords, 2003 Ranger and I just bought a brand new 2008 Commercial Econoline Van with complete contractors package and roof racks. It's the bomb.

Buy American

TMW - 1-6-2008 at 01:26 PM

Bus is your Ranger a 4x4? If so have you done any suspension upgrades to it?

Bajabus - 1-6-2008 at 02:02 PM

It is not a 4X4 but I did stiffen up the rear leaf springs with an aftermarket kit since I have full Length roof racks, a big job box with roll out drawer and another job box that spans the bed.
Not much need for 4X4 here in NC for me and I wanted the gas savings. I also opted for the 4 cyl.

79K on it and it runs like a champ. The only thing I ever had to do on it was change out the catalytic converter because it clogged up but that was under warranty.

just1man - 6-30-2008 at 02:56 PM

I'm just going to go ahead and put this out there. If you are on a leisurely trip from the top of Baja to the Bottom of Baja I imagine you'll be fine with a FURD. However the ones that I pass on my way to Ocotillo wells (these would be the ones hooked to travel trailers, stuck on hills oozing pink fluid) look like they wished they'd bought the Toyota!

Two words: RESALE VALUE.

When you sell an older Toyota you actually get money back, when selling a older FURD (if your lucky enough to have an older one still running) your lucky to write off the cost when you donate them. Or even better yet, my lawn guy has a super duty landscaping trailer :lol:

There is a reason all of the prerunner kids use Rangers, they can get rid of the FURD parts and install something reliable.

[Edited on 6-30-2008 by just1man]

Ken Cooke - 6-30-2008 at 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by just1manWhen you sell an older Toyota you actually get money back, when selling a older FURD (if your lucky enough to have an older one still running) your lucky to write off the cost when you donate them. Or even better yet, my lawn guy has a super duty landscaping trailer :lol:

There is a reason all of the prerunner kids use Rangers, they can get rid of the FURD parts and install something reliable.

When I listed my FURD, I got multiple inquiries, and I was paid cash money for mine. This is all b.s. - Here in Southern California, if you have a good-looking 4WD anything, it is going to sell.

I now drive a reliable Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, but although my Ford had some technical problems beginning at 130,000 m.i., it was lots of fun in the deserts and mountains (in Baja).

BajaWarrior - 6-30-2008 at 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by just1man
I'm just going to go ahead and put this out there. If you are on a leisurely trip from the top of Baja to the Bottom of Baja I imagine you'll be fine with a FURD. However the ones that I pass on my way to Ocotillo wells (these would be the ones hooked to travel trailers, stuck on hills oozing pink fluid) look like they wished they'd bought the Toyota!

Two words: RESALE VALUE.

When you sell an older Toyota you actually get money back, when selling a older FURD (if your lucky enough to have an older one still running) your lucky to write off the cost when you donate them. Or even better yet, my lawn guy has a super duty landscaping trailer :lol:

There is a reason all of the prerunner kids use Rangers, they can get rid of the FURD parts and install something reliable.

[Edited on 6-30-2008 by just1man]

Load your Toyota on the trailer with the other one, there's room...

SuperDutyandToyota.JPG - 47kB

just1man - 7-1-2008 at 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaWarrior

Quote:

There is a reason all of the prerunner kids use Rangers, they can get rid of the FURD parts and install something reliable.

[Edited on 6-30-2008 by just1man]

Load your Toyota on the trailer with the other one, there's room...

Classic, Can my wife ride back there with it?

just1man - 7-1-2008 at 01:24 PM

Quote:

Yeah, I'm just kinda chapped! I owned a 90' ranger and put too many part to list! (that statement sounds way better when your selling a truck not repairing one).

I should have saved the money and took it out in the desert and shot it!

I finally put a new short block it and drove it to the dealer and traded it in before it broke again.

List (just off the top of my head)
1 short block v6
exhaust headers
(3) sets of CV's
Art Carr tranny (after I grenades the stock one)

Not so standard upgrades:
Standard screwdriver to open tailgate
bypassed spedo (ran without but kept getting pulled over)
I'm fairly sure the check eng. light is still on!
Passenger side door, needed to be opened from the outside.
Cab light blinked every time you hit a bump.
All that with no A/C cuz' it broke a few months afterI bought it!

Ford will get my money when they build a new 40' Coupe!

just1man - 7-1-2008 at 01:26 PM

JEEP, isn't that Spanish for Heap? J/K :lol:

the Rubicons are super nice, but I don't make the big bucks so I'll hang on to my Tundra!

Ken Cooke - 7-1-2008 at 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by just1man
JEEP, isn't that Spanish for Heap? J/K :lol:

the Rubicons are super nice, but I don't make the big bucks so I'll hang on to my Tundra!

Jeep = Just Empty Every Pocket.

I've spent close to $40,000.00 on mine so far... :cool:

tripledigitken - 7-1-2008 at 02:11 PM

Ken,

After $40k, whats left to do?

Ken

Ken Cooke - 7-1-2008 at 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tripledigitken
Ken,

After $40k, whats left to do?

Ken

I'd love a long-arm suspension, larger spline-count axles, and 35" tires. This would stretch out the wheelbase a little, and make it ride much more smoothly on the street, and tackle bigger rocks on the trail with more wheel travel. All together, this package would cost me about $7K (regear to 4.88 from 4.10 in Tijuana, of course) plus 35" tires.

just1man - 7-3-2008 at 11:24 AM

Wow 45K is big bucks for running over rocks, more (horse)power to ya!

We were out testing my buddies new trophylite yesterday in Paster City, 45K out the door race ready scale version of a trophy truck.

Four cyl. 30" of travel. You guys should check them out. Entry level racer with the intent to have a more competitive racing series, one where you don't get out raced by someones wallet. I'll post some shots up for you to see later.

Check these thing out

www.trophylites.com

Cypress - 7-3-2008 at 11:38 AM

Maybe one day there'll be a computer game that duplicates the off road experience? :yes:

A special chair that bounces etc. while the player works the joy stick. :yes:

It'll save a lot of gas and keep wild areas wild. :yes:

Ken Cooke - 7-3-2008 at 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tripledigitken
Ken,

After $40k, whats left to do?

Ken

Double that amount, and look at what you get!! Baja anyone???

Mercedes Benz G-class trip to Cañon Las Arrastras

Ken Cooke - 7-3-2008 at 11:03 PM

Big dollar Baja!

Reisen und Abenteuer in Baja California

Baja California ist ein widersprüchliches Wüsten-Land eingerahmt von einigen tausend Kilometern einsamer Strände. Der Horizont erscheint endlos.
Baja California ist kein einfaches Reiseland - grösser als Italien hat es nur eine einzige verbindende Asphaltstrasse. Wer also seine historischen Schätze und atemberaubenden Naturschönheiten bewundern will, muss sich auf lange Schotterstrecken einrichten. Jedes Abenteuer hat halt seinen Preis.

805gregg - 7-4-2008 at 07:01 AM

Toyota really blew it, they just opened their billion dollar factory to make full size trucks and suv's in a down market. I just returned from a 2600 mile motorcycle ride thriugh NV, Utah, Colorado, N Mexico and AZ. All the work trucks ranchers, farmers and const. were Dodge with a few Fords and smaller # of Chevys thrown in, Toyota need not apply. My friend Rick bought a Toyota Tacoma extended cab short bed and put a Four Wheel Camper on it, the #600 camper crushed it and he had to have custom springs made for it. Then with that tiny load it wouldn't keep on the interstate so he had to put a supercharger on it. I'll stick with my Dodge Cummins.

TMW - 7-4-2008 at 08:22 AM

It must have been either a 4 cyclinder or an older V6, pre 2005. The 4 liter V6 has more than enough power for a camper. I pull a 5000 lb snowcat with my 07 company Tacoma. As for the springs that's common on most trucks or at least half ton or smaller. I've done an add a leaf on every truck I've owned. I will say that the only truck that I didn't need to was my companies 2001 Dodge 2500. It was also the roughest riding truck I ever drove. It only rode good when I had my 300 gallon water tank in it.

Ken Cooke - 7-4-2008 at 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 805greggMy friend Rick bought a Toyota Tacoma extended cab short bed and put a Four Wheel Camper on it, the #600 camper crushed it and he had to have custom springs made for it. Then with that tiny load it wouldn't keep on the interstate so he had to put a supercharger on it. I'll stick with my Dodge Cummins.

I see the Tacoma as more of a "Sport Truck." It was never meant for real work. Just camping, and playing around on dirt roads. THey are well built, and reliable, but super expensive. I looked at the Tacoma and 4 Runner while I was in the market for my Rubicon, and for what I had to spend, I went to Jeep instead. I wanted to crawl on rocks and literally see the entire peninsula without any issues - so I went with the Rubicon. If I were in the market today for a Go Anywhere Baja vehicle, it would more than likely be the JK Unlimited Rubicon over the 4 Runner because of the straight axle which is more durable than the CV jointed IFS Toyotas. The FJ Cruiser is a great-looking vehicle, but I hear the clam-shell doors rattle on the dirt roads, and that visibility isn't very good. With the JK you can remove the hard top, and that is so much better than dealing with a hard top you can barely see out of.

David K - 7-4-2008 at 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TW
It must have been either a 4 cyclinder or an older V6, pre 2005. The 4 liter V6 has more than enough power for a camper. I pull a 5000 lb snowcat with my 07 company Tacoma. As for the springs that's common on most trucks or at least half ton or smaller. I've done an add a leaf on every truck I've owned. I will say that the only truck that I didn't need to was my companies 2001 Dodge 2500. It was also the roughest riding truck I ever drove. It only rode good when I had my 300 gallon water tank in it.

That's for sure... the 4.0 has over 220 HP stock! My '01 with the 3.4 also had plenty of power... more than I ever needed. But, I only had one trip with a Callen Camper on it... again, no power issues. see http://vivabaja.com/baja15

The '05 rides nice like a car... but for that nice ride, you need to go slow off road or bottoming out will happen... I don't like slow, so the rear suspension was modified at Off Road Warehouse last year... Bilstein 5100s and Ride Rite air springs (air bags) added...Now it's great!!

[Edited on 7-4-2008 by David K]

AirbagTest 004r.JPG - 47kB

TMW - 7-4-2008 at 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Cooke

Quote:

The Tacoma is not really a little truck anymore. Starting in 05 they increased the width 4 inches. It's now a mid-size truck like the Dodge Dekota. A double cab (crewcab) with a short bed is almost as long as my GMC Z71 extended cab. The doublecab long bed is as long or longer as my Z71. For climbing over big rocks I think a short wheelbase like your jeeps are better. My 93 Toyota was a really good off-road truck, I thought. There was nowhere I know of that it wouldn't go. Well one place was the Turquesa wash that Roy went down. There was one place around a rock that my longer wheelbase would not have gone. The jeeps could have. The new short bed Toyotas are not good for putting a motorcycle in without dropping the tail gate because of the wheelwell.