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Hook
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You knew I had to bring it up............
Toyota loses reliability lead in Consumer Reports recommendations.
Apparently, there have been some significant problems with the recent Tundras with the 8 cyls and 4x4. No mention of specifics in this article.
Toyota loses lead in race for reliability
It slips from first to fifth in a Consumer Reports survey. Asian models still top rankings, but Ford makes strides.
By Martin Zimmerman, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
October 17, 2007
In a blow to the company that is poised to be the largest automaker in the world, Toyota Motor Corp. fell so far in Consumer Reports' annual
reliability survey that the magazine will no longer automatically recommend the company's new cars and trucks to readers.
The Toyota brand slid from first place last year to fifth place in the 2007 rankings, which were released Tuesday, and Honda Motor Co. replaced Toyota
in the top spot.
What's more, "below-average" ratings were given to two of Toyota's cars: the six-cylinder Camry sedan and the eight-cylinder, four-wheel-drive Tundra
pickup truck. The Lexus brand, which is owned by Toyota, dropped from fifth place to sixth, with the all-wheel-drive Lexus GS also receiving a "below
average."
"To see one of the premium manufacturers have three vehicles fall below average in reliability is a big concern," said David Champion, head of auto
testing for Consumer Reports. "They've always been average or better with all their products up to this point."
Champion added, however, that most "domestic automakers would love to have the record Toyota has now" and called the Japanese company -- which is
challenging General Motors Corp. for the title of largest carmaker -- "an extremely reliable manufacturer."
In fact, of the 39 vehicles named most reliable in the survey, 17 were produced by Toyota. Its youth-oriented Scion brand maintained its No. 3
ranking.
The magazine's rankings are compiled from responses to surveys about 1.3 million vehicles owned or leased by Consumer Reports subscribers, covering
model years 1998 to 2007.
Although Japanese automakers continued to dominate, Champion noted that Ford Motor Co. made strides in quality, with 41 of 44 Ford, Lincoln and
Mercury vehicles scoring average or better for predicted reliability.
"Ford continues to improve," Champion said, citing the Ford Fusion, the Mercury Milan and the Lincoln MKZ.
Toyota's drop in the rankings was especially significant because some critics have complained that the magazine was partial to Asian imports. The
rankings carry weight with many car shoppers, although their reach is somewhat limited because car makers aren't allowed to trumpet favorable ratings
in their advertising.
Consumer Reports has in its past annual editions given a "recommended" rating to all new cars and trucks from Toyota, Honda and Subaru, based on the
manufacturers' track records and survey data. The magazine said it would continue to do so for Honda and Subaru vehicles and that Toyota could regain
that privilege if it resumed former quality levels.
Toyota's drive for global growth has recently begun to show signs of strain, including the defection of several top U.S.-based executives to rival
automakers and criticism from environmentalists over the company's stance on proposed federal fuel economy standards.
On the quality front, the automaker has suffered high-profile setbacks, including recalls of its popular Prius hybrid and settlement of a class-action
lawsuit over claims of engine sludge buildup in millions of its vehicles.
But analysts didn't think that Toyota, which built a powerhouse brand on a reputation for quality, would let the problems fester.
"They're starting to see some of the volume-related problems that some of their competitors have seen," said John Wolkonowicz, an automotive analyst
with Global Insight Inc. "But unlike some of their competitors, Toyota is on it, and this is not going to continue."
The Camry is the bestselling sedan in the U. S., and about 20% of Camrys sold are six-cylinder models. Toyota said customers have complained about the
shifting of the Camry's automatic transmission, and that the problem had been remedied with a software adjustment. The company also said the 2007
Camry, on the market for more than a year, had generated the fewest warranty claims in the history of the model, which was introduced more than two
decades ago.
"Although a couple of vehicles slipped off the recommended list, it was actually a good performance for us," Toyota spokesman John Hanson said.
At No. 10, GM's Buick nameplate was the highest-rank domestic brand. Mercury was 11th and the Ford badge came in 13th, followed by Lincoln.
"We're very pleased with the results," said Graydon Reitz, Ford's director of quality for the Americas. "Where we are today is a point along the
journey to be best in the world in quality."
martin.zimmerman
[Edited on 10-17-2007 by Hook]
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Paulina
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Ouch! Ja ja ja
P<*)))><
\"Well behaved women rarely make history.\" Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
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David K
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It is important that competition exists to drive manufactorers to produce the best product for the price...
Isn't it amazing that American companies still don't make the grade?
The best (most trouble free) vehicles I have owned were Toyota, Subaru, Mitsubishi and Mazda and the WORST were Plymouth & Jeep...
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David K
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I will add my parents owned Fords, Jeeps and a Chevy Suburban.
The Fords ('73 wagon, '66 Mustang) were great!
The Jeeps ('65 Wagoneer and '70 Wagoneer) had a good one '65 and a junk one '70... got rid of it and got the Chevy Suburban... My dad loved the room,
but the engine was defective... Ford wins, but that was over 30 years ago+
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Hook
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I think the worst of Ford and Chevy's reliability are behind them, especially in the 70s and 80s. But they have a ways to go to match the Asian
imports.
In terms of the trucks, as I have contended for some time, it isnt completely fair to compare the American trucks vs the imports. American trucks are
asked to do much more than the imports. Just carrying around all the weight that an American truck has to have to be able to tow 10k or more, is a
strain on driveline components. And I'm not sure we can put the new Tundra or Titan in the "full-sized truck" category yet. Certainly not the Titan,
though I believe the new Tundra with the optional 5.7l V-8 is approaching a one-ton payload. Towing, however, is still way behind the American trucks.
One thing about this article's contention that Ford has had the highest increase in reliability. Is that purely because they have come so
far...........or it is because they were so poor in the past that a large percentage increase was easier to obtain?
[Edited on 10-17-2007 by Hook]
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Stickers
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I have owned all of the above vehicles. The only valid comparisons can be made when PRICE figures into the analysis. American manufactures have
managed to make some vehicles that are fairly reliable and sell them at probably less then it costs to make them.
The precision of foreign vehicles comes at a premium price.
I never had any (real) problems with my Ford but my new 4Runner is like floating on a cloud and floating on clouds is expensive.
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Hook
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Stickers
I have owned all of the above vehicles. The only valid comparisons can be made when PRICE figures into the analysis. American manufactures have
managed to make some vehicles that are fairly reliable and sell them at probably less then it costs to make them.
The precision of foreign vehicles comes at a premium price.
I never had any (real) problems with my Ford but my new 4Runner is like floating on a cloud and floating on clouds is expensive.
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Dont forget comfort. Can anything match the cushiness of an American interior? I love Ford and GM seats.
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Diver
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Isn't it amazing that American companies still don't make the grade? |
For you maybe !!!
But are you not, way under 6' tall ?? 
I love my Fords - all 3 of them.
They make the grade for me just fine.
Toyotas still feel like little tin boxes to me.
So there !! 
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Stickers
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Hook
Dont forget comfort. Can anything match the cushiness of an American interior? I love Ford and GM seats. |
Cant argue with you on that Hook. All of my Toyotas have been seat size challenged although I have not yet owned a Tundra. It's all a compromise in
the end.
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bearbait1
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Maybe Toyota's quality is dropping because more and more Toyotas are being built in the U.S.-- OOps, did I say that out loud, I'm sorry.
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Bruce R Leech
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Consumer Reports is finally being a little more truthful is all. it is no secret that they have been in bed with the Japanese car manufactures for
many years. but the pressure is turning the tide.
Ford and Dodge rule in the pickup truck world and they are coming back with there cars also. and GM has some neat surprises coming up
[Edited on 10-17-2007 by Bruce R Leech]
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
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Where can I find the "smiley" eating the popcorn?
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toneart
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I was in high school in the '50s and Ford & Chevy ruled. I had many different Fords and Chevys. In the 'between' years I always had foreign cars
VWs, MGs and Toyotas because they were more reliable. I loved them all.
In the last 20 years I have also owned older1960s & '70s Ford pickups. Real workhorses and easy to work on.
My current vehicle, a 2001 Ford F150 4WD, has been one of the best I have ever had. It hauls, is very comfortable and has virtually no problems. I
service it every 4000 miles and replace brakes, tires, etc when needed. No complaints! My dog has the whole super crew cab as his Penthouse Suite. He
has no complaints either!
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David K
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Diver
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Isn't it amazing that American companies still don't make the grade? |
For you maybe !!!
But are you not, way under 6' tall ??
I love my Fords - all 3 of them.
They make the grade for me just fine.
Toyotas still feel like little tin boxes to me.
So there !! |
I am not 'way under' at 5'9"...
I didn't just test drive a Tacoma for no reason... countless Baja Amigos spoke highly about their Toyota Tacomas to me and others, including Neal
Johns, 4baja, bajaboy, jeans, Alejandra, Baja Taco, ... etc, etc, etc BEFORE. I also went to a Ford dealer to drive a Ranger before going to a Toyota
dealer.
I don't think you have sat in a '05 + (larger size) Tacoma or you wouldn't say it is a tin can... Heck, my '01 was really nice with plenty of head and
leg room... the '05 is way bigger, yet can navigate to Mision Santa Maria without a problem!
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Al G
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Toneart...very few american owners have complaints...only toyota owners...about americans...cars and trucks
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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Hook
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OK, so it's a larger tin can than they made in the past.
I'm 5-11, 200#. Even the 07 Tundra was uncomfortable to me after my nice, plush Ford captains chairs.
You were right to avoid the Ranger, if Consumer's Report is to be believed. And I believe they can be.
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David K
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Toyota owners who used to own American cars and got tired of paying Mr. Goodwrench for stupid, low quality part failures...
Even though my Jeep was about the worst made new vehicle ever (when it wasn't broken, it was great and would go anywhere) , I still love Jeeps and
hope that they finally catch up with the Japanese in quality...
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David K
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Hook
OK, so it's a larger tin can than they made in the past.
I'm 5-11, 200#. Even the 07 Tundra was uncomfortable to me after my nice, plush Ford captains chairs.
You were right to avoid the Ranger, if Consumer's Report is to be believed. And I believe they can be. |
Is the '07 the larger one or the '08... ? I am talking about Tacomas, anyway... I have no opinion on the Tundra. The 'hard to believe' commercials are
pretty good, however!
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Al G
Ultra Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Toyota owners who used to own American cars and got tired of paying Mr. Goodwrench for stupid, low quality part failures...
Even though my Jeep was about the worst made new vehicle ever (when it wasn't broken, it was great and would go anywhere) , I still love Jeeps and
hope that they finally catch up with the Japanese in quality... |
I have owned several "Made in Japan" junks and I have owned many Fords, chevy, jeeps...of course my "made in Japan" were from the seventies and were
in the shop 2-3 time in their under 100,000 mile life and my american made trucks and cars all went to 200,000 to 300,000 mile and never had their
valve covers removed...my ford van did have a timing chain replaced at about 270,000 miles without removing valve covers...my Jeep now is at 220,000
and is in mint condition. (just replaced all rubber to run Baja) I wonder why you had such bad luck...or is luck the right word
I am just poking fun at "made in Japan"....they now have to face American Mass production woos, they will get worse before they get better for
sure...
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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David K
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I understand Al... it's almost borderline politics when we start talking cars/ trucks here... Hook is to blame, right?
My new Jeep was a 1975.5 Cherokee Chief (really a '76 model, but sold too early in 1975 to legally call it a '76) with a 401 V-8, automatic (a GM
unit), Quadra Trac full time 4WD with low range, Levi interior, nice, nice, nice...
Here's a photo of it on the road between Diablo Dry Lake and San Felipe in Nov. '75 (watching the first SCORE Baja 1000)...
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