BajaNomad - Baja crime and corruption

Baja crime and corruption

Minnow - 11-21-2007 at 10:01 AM

Check out this thread. It will make you totally rethink driving through TJ.

http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36344

Bajaboy - 11-21-2007 at 10:16 AM

Minnow-

I scanned through most of these posts and there definitely is a pattern. The cops target the race crews and the race crews pay the mordida. It sucks all the way around in my opinion. Don't pay the mordida! If you are guilty, pay at the station.

Zac

Such is the Way of Life in the Third-World.

MrBillM - 11-21-2007 at 10:27 AM

The problems being worried over have been endemic to Third-World Urban areas since long before I was born. The difference now is simply one of numbers as a result of growing population which cannot be supported by legitimate economic activity.

Really, though, it is something of a Win-Win proposition for those of us who travel and live without injury in Baja. As long as they're feeding off of those who are the most attractive financial targets and others who use poor judgement, they make enough to leave alone those of us who are careful and cautious. If the authorities crack down on one channel of behavior, they'll look for another, possibly where I'M at.

Long ago, I quit travelling anywhere in Baja at night or in the early morning. I stay out of questionable areas of town and constantly watch for impending trouble.

So Far, So Good.

I'll STILL pay the Mordida. As long as it's reasonable, of course.

Minnow - 11-21-2007 at 10:36 AM

Bill, when the Races are not in Baja, these people will have to look elsewhere for targets. That is one thread from Baja Race people, to think this is not happening ever other day to regular people and tourists is silly. Look at all the other carjackings recently.

wilderone - 11-21-2007 at 10:42 AM

" It will make you totally rethink driving through TJ."
Your analysis of the problem is way off the mark. It's being a young, male, gringo who expects to be tapped for mordida and then complies - word gets around fast, and then it's considered "normal" as one of those fools stated. And being obviously, visibly connected to the race scene is just putting a "kick me" label on yourself.

Woooosh - 11-21-2007 at 11:05 AM

Thank god for that edit button once in a while - eh?

Please everyone be extra extra careful this next coming month. Crime is way up and job security is way down. Everyone in Rosarito is on edge as the new gov't takes control and people still don't know if they have the job next week that they have today. (the new gov't awards all the "palacio" government jobs to their friends and supporters- obviously lack of education and skill sets are not a problem).

Christmas is coming and that puts a lot of extra pressure on the men to bring home the gifts. Kids are kids and this close to the border they watch USA TV commercials and want just what the american kids want. Just be extra vigilant becasue this holiday season will be different.

If I hadn't rented out my place in Colorado I'd head for the hills myself.

Roberto - 11-21-2007 at 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wilderone
" It will make you totally rethink driving through TJ."
Your analysis of the problem is way off the mark. It's being a young, male, gringo who expects to be tapped for mordida and then complies - word gets around fast, and then it's considered "normal" as one of those fools stated. And being obviously, visibly connected to the race scene is just putting a "kick me" label on yourself.

Not sure what your point is. Are you saying you've never been tapped? TJ cops target ALL americans, and not just them. I don't pay, I make it clear that I have all the time in the world to wait for the judge, but that doesn't stop them from hitting on me.

I realize you don't like the race guys, and feel they are getting what they deserve, but keep in mind that a lot of these folks don't know much about Baja at all, and are scared chitless when they get stopped. They don't understand the system. But, then again, neither do any of the occasional tourists. How does that change the corruption of the cops?

MrsFDT - 11-21-2007 at 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by grover

http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36344

"...We crossed the boarder at about 6:20am, still dark. They pulled us into secondary on the mexican side and I was in the passenger seat. There were two boarder guys on the driver side and one on my side. The guy on my side pulled out his cell phone and was talking to someone. He looked really out of place and was shaking really bad while he was on the phone.

As we pulled out I had bad feeling in my gut as we proceeded to head out of town. I told Benny who was driving to follow the speed limit and don't put a wheel out of place. As we made our way up the hill out of TJ and then down the bottom, the road veers right to get on the road that will take you to Ensenada. As soon as we made the veer to the right a cop car pulled right up behind us and put his lights on.

It was still dark and no cars in sight. After hearing the stories of the surfers we were not going to stop. It was in the same place. I told Benny to keep driving and get us to the first toll booth because at least there would be people there. He came up next to us light flashing and sirens going off. It was one of the worst feelings all of us ever felt. I told Benny to keep driving, don't look at them and just get us to the toll booth.

The cop car had tinted windows, which I thought was strange as well and the passanger window was cracked. He then dropped back and everytime he would make an attempt to come up along side us Benny would pinch him off, still going the speed limit. As we approached the first toll booth he turned his lights off and turned around..."

posted by Ryan Arciero

This truly gave me chills. Mex customs and the black car cops? I see them constantly around town too. To think they made me nervous before..... Only because I dont know who they are, not because I have ever had any look in my direction. I have only been pulled over once in Tijuana in my 14 years and that was because I was driving a U-hual with Ca Plates. So I count my blessings and drive as little as possible.

I re read this and realized it didnt say black car just tinted windows. Sorry, The only ones Ive ever seen with tinted windows were the black unmarked vehicles.

[Edited on 11-21-2007 by MrsFDT]

BajaNomad - 11-21-2007 at 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roberto

Quote:

Originally posted by wilderone
...being... visibly connected to the race scene is just putting a "kick me" label on yourself.

...keep in mind that a lot of these folks don't know much about Baja at all, and are scared chitless when they get stopped. They don't understand the system. But, then again, neither do any of the occasional tourists.

Certain things can absolutely become a visual "trigger" gaining the attention of the authorities.

"Energy goes where attention flows..."

Most of us understand that driving a red sports car around will bring attention to us - including from the authorities, and thusly an increased risk of moving violations, etc.

From my own varied activities in Baja California, another common visual trigger for authorities (to note) are surfboards you're transporting (that are visible). As well: many of these folks fall into the description provided by Roberto.

--
Doug

[Edited on 11-21-2007 by BajaNomad]

Minnow - 11-21-2007 at 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaNomad
]Certain things can absolutely become a visual "trigger" gaining the attention of the authorities.

"Energy goes where attention flows..."

Most of us understand that driving a red sports car around will bring attention to us - including from the authorities, and thusly an increased risk of moving violations, etc.

From my own varied activities in Baja California, another common visual trigger for authorities (to note) are surfboards you're transporting (that are visible). As well: many of these folks fall into the description provided by Roberto.

Or towing a boat, Driving/Towing an RV, ATC's, Motorcycles, Ect; Basically anything that people go to Baja with.

Well that is just great. Expect to be pulled over if you fit any of the above. Better yet, expect to be called STUPID, for doing it with no sympathy whatsoever from the authorities, or the people on this board.

What is boils down to with that kind of logic, is that it is your fault for going there, not the criminals.

Bajajack - 11-21-2007 at 03:44 PM

Corruption and Violence is the Mexican way of life, their way, anywhere in Mexico. It's just finally gotten to the point of being overwhelming, to us, but not them.

How many American that live there or visit often have ignored it all these years because they were'nt personally affected?

The only way it will ever stop or even slow down is if the US Government would put enough pressure on the Mexican Government and thats not gonna happen.

DENNIS - 11-21-2007 at 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajajack
The only way it will ever stop or even slow down is if the US Government would put enough pressure on the Mexican Government and thats not gonna happen.

We should probably hope not. Nobody likes to be pressured and that is even more true between Mexico and the US.

Roberto - 11-21-2007 at 03:57 PM

To follow up on the above, here is a quote from the same thread that Minnow provided a link to:

Quote:

TJ is a joke and for them to consider themselves law enforcement is even more of a joke. There is nothing you can do but give in in those situations because you know if they are that crooked to begin with it will only get worse if you dont pay. The onlything you can do is NOT GO.

THIS is how most of these eeevil racers feel. I urge you not to judge, many of these folks are some of the best people you will ever encounter, ready to give you the shirt off their backs if you need help. And let's also remember that they are there to race. Yes, many go fast on Mex 1, but often it is to get to their race vehicle that needs them in the middle of some godforsaken spot in the middle of nowhere at oh-dark thirty. And finally, they do all this (almost universally) without pay. In fact, they are lucky if the team covers their gas and lodging. They are doing something they love and make great sacrifices for.

The mordida thing has been going on for years - but it has reached a new dimension where subtle threats, cuffings, and other methods are used to extract hundreds and even thousands of dollars.

I recently had to make an "emergency" trip to San Pedro Martir to help some friends, and found myself faced with the prospect of driving "the gauntlet" at 4:00 AM. I went through TJ instead, and joined the toll road at Rosarito. No incidents, but I was stopped by one of these scumbag cops for "not coming to a full stop" at an intersection. :lol:

He was stunned when I told him that

a) I had no money
b) I was perfectly willing to wait for the judge to show up the next morning.
c) Even if I did have money, I wasn't going to give it to him.

He tried to argue with me for 20 minutes or so, pointing out that he wanted to "help" me (he spoke no English, and I spoke no Spanish on this particular occasion). I thanked him, but suggested that if he wanted to be more successful in helping gringos, he should work on his English.

But all this is really besides the point, because I'm sure my lifted and decked-out F350 draws attention as well, and I could have crossed a REALLY crooked cop who pulled a gun on me, not to mention one of these groups with guns. I'll tell you this, I am really starting to doubt the wisdom of traveling in Baja. I haven't quite gotten to the boycott point, and the idea of not going south is hard to contemplate, but I'm getting there. I will also tell you something else - I ain't stopping for one of these holdups. I will do my best to avoid them, but if it comes to it, I will use every pound of my 8,500 truck.

And, when this kind of stuff happens to the McMillin race team, and Mark Miller, whose VW Touareg SCORE recently modified their rules to admit, someone will get an earful, and it ain't gonna be a powerless individual like myself complaining.

Whether it changes anything or not, remains to be seen, but I am hopeful.

[Edited on 11-21-2007 by Roberto]

Woooosh - 11-21-2007 at 03:59 PM

Why not cancel NAFTA and re-negotiatie a deal that holds all sides accountable.

Visual Triggers

Yakfishing - 11-21-2007 at 04:14 PM

When I go to Baja, I'm carrying two kayaks on top of my truck.
I call them mordida magnets...
"Mordida Magnet"
That's what I'll name my real (non-tupperware) boat when I get one!

Only Mexico can fix this

Dave - 11-21-2007 at 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Minnow
expect to be called STUPID, for doing it with no sympathy whatsoever from the authorities, or the people on this board.

What is boils down to with that kind of logic, is that it is your fault for going there, not the criminals.

And unless/until they do, your options are limited. Weigh and accept the risk...or not. Just the way it is. Life ain't fair.

Got the sheep and got the hunters

Lee - 11-21-2007 at 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

And unless/until they do, your options are limited. Weigh and accept the risk...or not. Just the way it is. Life ain't fair.

I drive an RV, tow a car, and have surfboards on top. And I don't give a ****. Like Roberto, there's a time to be respectful, and a time to stand up and say I've got nothing but time and willing to speak with the Judge, let's go.

I don't expect to have 2 cars and a dozen heavily armed men force me off the toll-road during the day. If you're not prepared to ''negotiate'' with law enforcement in Baja, you might want to learn in advance or go somewhere else.

Depending on my mood, I will consider mordida if I'm in the wrong, but a total shakedown won't happen. * them and let's go to the mat.

[Edited on 11-22-2007 by Hose A]

Bajajack - 11-21-2007 at 06:02 PM

I've been going down for what feels like forever and have so far figured out how to get myself out of the bad situations and there have been a few through the year's.

This takes time and experience which the average newguy fresh from reading all the Baja travel brochures does'nt have.

He probably has the wife and or girlfriend along, maybe some kids too, he has no idea what to do when a problem presents itself.

The whole situation needs to be addressed by more of us complaining and stressing the problems with anyone who will listen.

If we scream loud enough sooner or latter someone higher up will have to take notice.

Roberto - 11-21-2007 at 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajajack
If we scream loud enough sooner or latter someone higher up will have to take notice.

Good luck with that. As long as we keep going down, NOTHING will happen, regardless of how loud we scream. And, we don't scream very loud either - in many cases we don't even refuse to pay the mordida because we're in too much of a rush to get to our vacation spot. :lol:

Even a boycott is unlikely to change things IMO. In short, we're flocked.

Bruce R Leech - 11-21-2007 at 06:22 PM

right now the cartels are running the show here in Baja north and south and most of Mexico. they don't give a darn about tourism or us that live here. unless you can hit them where it hurts nothing will change.

Dave - 11-21-2007 at 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lee

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

And unless/until they do, your options are limited. Weigh and accept the risk...or not. Just the way it is. Life ain't fair.

I wasn't referring to mordida. What's happening now is light years from mordida. You people need to get the idea of this being mordida out of your heads.

This is mugging, armed robbery, carjacking and rape.

BajaNomad - 11-21-2007 at 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajajack
The only way it will ever stop or even slow down is if the US Government would put enough pressure on the Mexican Government and thats not gonna happen.

We should probably hope not. Nobody likes to be pressured and that is even more true between Mexico and the US.

Mexico does not want to be "told" what to do by the USA. That's true for all of us really, especially head-strong Baja travelers such as ourselves.

We need to have trust & confidence with the source if we're going to follow instructions - and the same goes for Mexico. And well, they don't trust the USA. Plain and simple.

It will have to become important enough to the Mexican authorities (whether Federal, State, or Municipal) to put attention upon it. There needs to be something that motivates them to take action.

Again, "energy goes where attention flows."

They won't want to do anything putting positive energy towards this - unless it's something they've decided themselves as high enough priority to put attention to.

Usually it will all boil down to the allmighty $$$ - and a local economy suffering because people are avoiding the place simply because they feel it's not safe - no matter what the true reality may be.

So to review - to be most effective, there needs to be something bringing this to their attention that motivates them to come up with a positive solution/decision for themselves.

If presented as a negative problem that they're being "told" they have to "fix, or else" - well, that ain't gonna achieve good results.

And that's the bottom line, isn't it - a good/positive outcome?

Having said all that, it may take "seeding" local business people with the knowledge/thought that they are about to start getting hit in their wallets very soon because of recent events - that is, if they aren't already considering just this fact.

That will lead them to the determination we already know for ourselves to be the eventual outcome... only they decided upon the actions to take themselves.

Just my $.02 worth.

--
Doug

Bajajack - 11-21-2007 at 06:52 PM

The problem is, we put up with it far too long and now it's biting us in the U Know where.

In the beginning I did'nt mind paying a little mordida now and then, heck I actually thought it was great idea, greasing a few palm's to cut all that nasty red tape.

But times have changed, mordida is not what it used to be.

With the animosity being shown to any Greeengo encountering it now it's nothing more than outright robbery.

I do not believe it can be stopped but I do know it can be controlled, TJ is a prime example.

Remember when the Army took all the sidearms from the local cops and started watching them, or I should say looking for them as they all seemed to dissapear when they were relieved of their weapons. Could it be they were fearing retaliation from the locals, nah.

But all good things come to an end, now that the armys gone and they now have their hunting priviledges restored it's probably twice as bad since they have to work harder now to make up all that lost income and not to mention all that lose of face they had to endure, U know, that macheesemo thing!

Roberto - 11-21-2007 at 06:55 PM

Doug, I understand where you're coming from, but, with all due respect, I'm not buying.

When people are being physically harmed and their lives put at risk because law enforcement is corrupt and not doing their job it becomes hard to focus on anything else.

What I see is that the "authorities" are either corrupt themselves, or ineffective to the point of not having a reason to be where they are.

I would be interested in hearing what YOU think should be done. Are you ok with this level of lawlessness? Somehow, I doubt it. Then what point are you making, exactly, in terms of tourists (and we're all tourists, with few exceptions) and how they should behave and/or protect themselves.

Beyond this, the trend of the Mexican government has been pretty clear with respect to foreginers. You have no rights, no say, can't own property, but please come down and spend your money. And, we will feel free to support the illegal emigration of as many citizens as wish to go to prop up our corrupt have/have not economy.

Minnow - 11-21-2007 at 07:03 PM

I think I am with Bruce. The cartels are running the show. They could give a flying F about tourists or tourist dollars. It is the wild west, travel at your own risk.

Bajajack - 11-21-2007 at 07:17 PM

Maybe I'm missing something here, I always assumed that the Cartels and the Government were the same with the only difference being how the cut was split, silly me.

DENNIS - 11-21-2007 at 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajajack
Maybe I'm missing something here, I always assumed that the Cartels and the Government were the same with the only difference being how the cut was split, silly me.

No No...That just CAN'T be true 'cause the government denys it.
So....There you are.

Packoderm - 11-21-2007 at 08:31 PM

I'm still planning on going this winter. I'll cross in either Tecate or Mexicali and head down Gonzaga way. I hope its safe enough for me and my kid. We'll have a small quad and a bike, but they'll be covered inside our junky old van.

As for danger, I hope North Baja doesn't become our local Colombia where we have to arrange a flight to get around the bad guys. If it does get to that level, the U.S. ought to just simply shut down the border to all overland travel. But I imagine that all this should blow over after awhile. However, these bouts of scary happenings seem to be happening in shorter and shorter cycles. Of course all this nonsense would not be happening if the U.S. didn't have prohibition against dope. It's like the 1920's down there.

fdt - 11-21-2007 at 08:35 PM

Join the baja nomad chat, post your solution

Roberto - 11-21-2007 at 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fdt
Join the baja nomad chat, post your solution

Sounds productive - count me in.

Minnow - 11-21-2007 at 09:02 PM

At least we have Ferna working on a positive note. I just hate the thought of sending him into the fray with our message.

gnukid - 11-22-2007 at 07:41 AM

Action is driven by money. People do what makes money. If police made money doing good work they would do good work, but they don't get paid to do good work they get paid only when they participate in theft.

They sell the stolen goods for money, they get bribed by the crooks to sell the goods, then when bad is caught they bribe the cops to not put them away, then they go back and take the goods back and sell them back to the victim and ask to be paid to arrest the guy, the guy goes to jail for 24 hours and then pays to get out. Its a pathetic, sad circle of injustice.

Every commandant gets paid a share, every licensio gets paid, they all want a share to look the other way. In fact regular police business is not their business.

No matter how well intentioned leaders of government and commerce may be, if they can't change this basic fact, then there is no money to pay for crime prevention, persecution, deterrents, punishment etc... Raise the salaries of police and make it worthwhile to do their work.

A policeman's wage ranges from about $600-1000/month or $20-35/day plus other benefits. Its not enough to raise their families.

Successful community solutions involve making private communities which have proven to be the only solution in mexico and in some regions such as Monterey are the norm, private paid for security, taking defense in your hands and basically stand up to bad people with your own will vigilance or that of your paid for enforcer.

Each one of us must take it upon ourselves to beat up a bad guy when you catch one, do not report it, do not let them go, just make it hurt, break their fingers, or even better kill them and leave them right where they committed the crime. Vigilance sends a clear message and its the only message understood by the meth rats-fear of losing their fingers or dying. Thats the only solution, not unlike any other place in the world.

[Edited on 11-22-2007 by gnukid]

DENNIS - 11-22-2007 at 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid

A policeman's wage ranges from about $600-1000/month or $20-35/day plus other benefits.

Yeah...."other benefits." That's the problem from our perspective. Gathering in all those other benefits is more than a pattern of bad behavior. It's part of the culture of law enforcement in Mexico. Been around since day one and won't easily go away. The police are shooting their own goose by demanding too much. They run their scam just like many owners in mexico run their businesses. They demand too much for a product and don't comprehend the benefit of high volume, low cost sales. An active cop could receive good "benefits" from pocket change but greed has taken over.

DENNIS - 11-22-2007 at 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by grover
If we were to temporarily interrupt their cash flow, there might be a good chance of enforcing further discipline within the ranks in regards to preying on tourists.

You mean....gasp......they might have to fall back on their countless reserves? That, for sure would be the beginning of the end. Why, I'd be willing to bet they couldn't last for more than a thousand years or so.

Paladin - 11-22-2007 at 09:27 AM

******Each one of us must take it upon ourselves to beat up a bad guy when you catch one, do not report it, do not let them go, just make it hurt, break their fingers, or even better kill them and leave them right where they committed the crime. Vigilance sends a clear message and its the only message understood by the meth rats-fear of losing their fingers or dying. Thats the only solution, not unlike any other place in the world. ********

Finally a real life solution...the good old vigalantee(sp?) system...in little towns this would work.....now if we all all could only have guns....still I guess making them eat a flare would work. :light:

motoged - 11-22-2007 at 11:18 AM

Quote:

still I guess making them eat a flare would work

Nomads,
Up here in the Great White North, where bears and other varmints can be a pest, some folks carry "Bear Bangers", which can shoot either flares or a small explosive device (shell) which explodes with a significant percussive force 2 seconds after being fired from the discreet fountain pen launcher.

http://www.irl.bc.ca/Safety%20+%20Clothing/flares-bear-.htm

These units are inexpensive and perform various functions for creative applications.

They are not a firearm and sure look like a pen in your shirt pocket.... :light:

Just another idea from a guy who gave up guns years ago....

[Edited on 11-22-2007 by BajaNomad]

BajaNomad - 11-22-2007 at 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
...Crime is way up and job security is way down. Everyone in Rosarito is on edge as the new gov't takes control and people still don't know if they have the job next week that they have today.

...Christmas is coming...

This is entirely consistent with something else I posted on another thread just now....

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=28119&pag...

bajadock - 11-22-2007 at 12:01 PM

Still learning to listen/read others' experiences and advice. Brief discussion on crime topic at neighborhood dinner last night. 2 guests showed up approx 20 minutes late due to thick traffic from last toll booth north of Ensenada all the way through downtown Ensenada. Looks like a big tourist weekend in Ensenada to me. What, me worry? -A.E.N.

BajaNomad - 11-22-2007 at 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roberto
When people are being physically harmed and their lives put at risk because law enforcement is corrupt and not doing their job it becomes hard to focus on anything else.

It's hard to focus on anything else if you're the one in the middle of the situation and fearing for your life - or the safety of your family.

For those not immediately at risk, they need to take their energies to affect change - if that's the result they desire. Not flail in every which direction.

Quote:

What I see is that the "authorities" are either corrupt themselves, or ineffective to the point of not having a reason to be where they are.

Nothing new here I hate to say. (a generalized statement, where there are always exceptions of course)

Quote:

I would be interested in hearing what YOU think should be done. Are you ok with this level of lawlessness?

No, not okay with the lawlessness.

Action?: Just what I mentioned - create buzz through the business community whom the politicos must satisfy to remain in their position of power/authority.

How do you create this buzz - by having them visualize the results now of the devastation they will soon suffer (if not already suffering) in their WALLETS from current events/security/etc.

I saw a copied post here already where the gentleman running Too Much Fun Promotions in Rosarito was taking action immediately in just this way.

He needs to be joined by others in the business community.

Again, this opinion is just my dos centavos and subject to change if other pertinent facts are brought forward - or come out.

My recollection is that there have almost always been problem time periods in the past - and that this is a continuing cyclical issue that arises. Right now we're on the downside of the cycle. Maybe it IS because of the insecurity of jobs for some of the police/authorities and the changeover on Dec 1 - combined with personal pressures within families because of the Christmas holiday as well.

And maybe, just maybe, we just have more information and news available to us in the new digital age and that this downcycle is just as bad as those in the past - only it appears worse because we are finding out more about it today because of the better sources available to us online?

"Energy goes where attention flows..."

I don't pretend to have all the answers, but am sharing my thoughts on the subject.

Thanks,
--
Doug

[Edited on 11-22-2007 by BajaNomad]

BajaNomad - 11-22-2007 at 12:14 PM

Quote:

Then what point are you making, exactly, in terms of tourists (and we're all tourists, with few exceptions) and how they should behave and/or protect themselves.

I've always maintained the philosophy of don't make yourself a target. It's a broad statement, I know.

But right now it seems we need to be extra-vigilant in our decisions - and know the risk(s).

If you do choose to go, avoid standing out and making yourself a target:
- watch the amount of cash you're carrying.
- put the jewelry and watches away

(etc)

I'm a huge proponent of trying to "blend in" as much as possible.

Pizza insurance - notice that so often the people being targeted were driving expensive vehicles - and that's what was ultimately taken from them. Obviously what the crimnals were targeting.

It's been noted to me that ex-pats know this, but also add it's helpful to have local, not foreign plates on the vehicle as well.

The "senior" officer of customs noted on the radio that there were 8 to 9 vehicles taken a day from tourists in Tijuana.

Should the tourist "have to" do these things or be worried about such issues, no, of course not - but we're talking about reality, safety, etc, and these things are true for travelers in many parts of the world, including Mexico. Apparently more so than ever right now.

There are no guarantees, but if you're going to visit now you may want to place more attention on - and better manage - the risks so as to minimize them as much as possible.

--
Doug

[Edited on 11-22-2007 by BajaNomad]

Roberto - 11-22-2007 at 03:14 PM

Doug, thanks for the reply(ies).

Once again, I understand where you are coming from, and once again, I'm not buying. :lol:

Here's why:

The business people you speak of are small businesses. I really don't believe they have enough influence to cause change in that system. I'm guessing that when it comes to this level of violence and corruption they are victims as much as anyone else.

I am also doubtful of how much positive influence for change they can bring. Negative influence, as in participating in the corruption is another matter - that potential is probably unlimited.

I have practives the "blend in" philosophy for years - in Mexico and other parts of the world. Not for safety, necessarily, it's just the way I like to travel. But, let's face it when I drive down the road, I am a gringo, and a magnet. No way to change that, short of the pizza chit deal (and, let me point out that the originator of that perspective now drives a Taco and is a magnet like everyone else).

My perspective is that when things reach this level of, there's really little anyone can do, including the ordinary citizens of Mexico. It's going to take a concerted effort on the part of the Federal Government, to fix this. The army, or the police, if not corrupted. It's going to take firepower. It's going to take a clear, violent message that this stuff will not be tolerated, and a price will be paid.

I am not so naive to believe that this is easy to put together, for countless reasons. But it's the ruling class in Mexico that will have to fix this problem - and make no mistake that there is one. When there are sufficient economic reasons to do so, they will.

BajaNomad - 11-22-2007 at 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roberto
The business people you speak of are small businesses. I really don't believe they have enough influence to cause change in that system. I'm guessing that when it comes to this level of violence and corruption they are victims as much as anyone else.

I agree, they are small fish, and just as much the victims here. However, large companies don't turn on a dime, and it's these smaller businesses - to me - that have a more realistic ability to set the momentum, get the visibility, etc. to start the snowball that will draw the big boys in and affect change.

Quote:

...pizza chit deal (and, let me point out that the originator of that perspective now drives a Taco and is a magnet like everyone else).

Quote:

It's going to take a clear, violent message that this stuff will not be tolerated, and a price will be paid.

This is likely the only mechanism to finally achieve the goal... but that won't be put in place until the other pieces fall into place ahead of that.... and what I was referring to were the pieces to put the snowball in motion. What you've mentioned here will be the only way in the end that I see where the consequences will be put into place to clean house (so to speak). It's the inevitable end game that I see - and thusly I agree with you.

Quote:

...it's the ruling class in Mexico that will have to fix this problem... When there are sufficient economic reasons to do so, they will.

Again, agreement, because the bottom line is change will only happen when this becomes a problem for the people that have the power to make something happen - and they'll move when it hits them in their WALLETS.

I still believe the little guy(s) can get the ball rolling much more expediently. But hey, what the heck do I know?

--
Doug

[Edited on 11-23-2007 by BajaNomad]